VKB STECS Hardware Review
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- This is our Review of the VKB STECS Throttle!
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Rig specs:
Intel i9 12900K
ASUS PRIME Motherboard
64GB DDR 4 3200 RAM
2x 1TB M.2 NVME SSD
1TB SATA SSD
1TB HDD for storage
GeForce RTX 3080
NZXT i510 case (modified)
Samsung Odyssey HMD, Oculus Quest 2, HP Reverb G2
VKB Gunfighter Mk.III with Kosmosima Right Premium and MCGU
Winwing Orion 2 Gimbal with F-16 Stick with Spring+Shake and FSSB
VKB Gladiator NXT Left Premium (Omni)
Xbox Controller (for TEDAC)
Winwing Orion Throttle
Winwing Orion 2 Throttle with F-16 grip
VKB STECS Standard
VKB T-Rudder Pedals
Foxx Mounts x2
MonsterTech long mount
#HOTAS #HOSAS #DCS #DCSWORLD #F16 #F15 #A10C #HARDWAREREVIEW #THROTTLE #VKB
8:50 Re detents: Those are _not_ the electronic detents, and it's not "sci-fi theories", VKB has stated before that the electromagnetic variant will come _after_ the mechanical variant. That's why they are referring to it as Phase One. Phase Two is electromagnetic, Phase Three will presumably be the rail variant.
I think this one is great for VR use! Big knops and I believe a good feelable orientation cause of the different shapes of buttons and dials you can find orientation! I will try this one out
Thanks so much Aus, your accuracy and personal flourishes keep these reviews fresh and informative in equal measure. Keep up the great work!
Thank you! I appreciate that, now if I can just get finals behind me this week I can get some of my backlog completed!
The grip reads "modern throttle grip", which would imply that they are already developing other grips, probably for space, WWII, and airliners, and the idea that you can change them out just like the Gladiator sticks.
Yeah that could be implied one thing I should've said in cons but the are a number of self tapping screws in use, and some of those hold the grip to the throttle handles so repeated changes of grips may Damage them. I don't think it's designed for swapping grips, but they doesn't mean there won't be other grips for sure.
STECS! Finally! As always, great coverage of the entire device. And the time put into making comparisons as well as stick pairings is invaluable for those of us not well plugged into the market. There are way too many out there for me to wrap my head around. This video makes it much easier for us. I think I would eventually like to go for the STECS Standard, but may go Mini Plus due to my space limitations. I need to load up DCS again soon. Fly safe folks.
The joke was that every time someone asked when VKB was going to release the product, it got delayed another year. Obviously we were slacking and forgot to keep asking. Yay. Now if I can just convince my wife that this is what I want for my birthday.
My exp with VKB today
"I guess the proper name for the switch in question is a "Trigger switch" yes? now all I need is how to replace the switch i can find nothing on youtue on our VKB's forum. I'm not too pleased on how VKB expects me to change the trigger without instructions is that too much to expect??? how about you take all my VKB products in trade for a WINWING or VPRILE ...,.. ARE YOU GOING TO STAND BEHIND YOUR youtube WHAT!... AT 74 I THINK I CAN HANDLE REMOVING A BUNCH OF SCREWS IF THAT WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO PROBABLY CROSS-THREAD THEM AND RUIN THE THROTTLE" coulden type I so pissed VKB wrong choice
The paddles on front and back are replicating the fingerlifts on Russian gen 4 jet throttles. I think the idea is to make it easier to push forward through detents by having additional fingerlifts in the back. I imagine when the electromagnetic detent variant of STECS arrives, it will have an option to actually use those as fingerlifts.
" I imagine when the electromagnetic detent variant of STECS arrives, it will have an option to actually use those as fingerlifts."
Yeah.... The implementation of them as buttons serve well, because in games, like DCS, you should anyways be able to set software based afterburner and idle detents. So you need to press a button before your virtual throttle can go past those. Those are great universally for existing throttles, but having a own dedicated button for that now as finger lifts makes great feeling.
And when the electromagnetic PRO model comes out, you don't need to play around with the detent clips etc.
My exp with VKB today
"I guess the proper name for the switch in question is a "Trigger switch" yes? now all I need is how to replace the switch i can find nothing on youtue on our VKB's forum. I'm not too pleased on how VKB expects me to change the trigger without instructions is that too much to expect??? how about you take all my VKB products in trade for a WINWING or VPRILE ...,.. ARE YOU GOING TO STAND BEHIND YOUR youtube WHAT!... AT 74 I THINK I CAN HANDLE REMOVING A BUNCH OF SCREWS IF THAT WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO PROBABLY CROSS-THREAD THEM AND RUIN THE THROTTLE" coulden type I so pissed VKB wrong choice
Going to add another comment and not just for the algorithm ... but also because I did get my hands on the STECS Standard yesterday at a virtual pilots' meet in Holland. I put a bit of a write-up of my impressions on the HOTAS discord, but I will repeat my bottom-line here:
Even though I only had very little time with the device, I was *very* impressed. If I had to decide between the Virpil CM3 and the STECS Standard again now that the VKB is available, it would be a very difficult call. I still think the Virpil warrants its higher price due to materials, general construction, etc ... but the VKB is a *very* tempting alternative. Especially for someone like me who already runs a Gunfighter, so I could be using the same piece of software to set up and tweak both my throttle and stick.
Only problem is that the VKB is still out of stock in the EU-store and since they're still bringing it in via air-freight at this point, even if you do manage to snag one, it will be a bit over regular retail-price. Was the same deal back when the Gladiator Evo came out and is probably going to continue like this for a while.
Great review. I first moved the three way cradle to BRK position (well, the name!), but got inspired by your idea and moved 5-way hat there instead. The 3-way is less comfortable at the bottom, but it is less of a problem than with 5-way hat, which was kinda hidden under it and difficult to operate up/down. Good idea. I also struggled with what to put on the palm triggers, and countermeasures are great idea as well! Thanks for those.
I agree with a bit tough pinkie button, also the orientation doesn't help. I wanted to have at least one modifier, and none of the buttons is that easy to press and hold as a "shift" - but this is due to the seriousness of the said buttons, I guess. ;-)
I probably have yet to try it with modules where the left grip encoders make any sense at all. I'm currently testing with my trusty L-39, that would benefit from real axis much more. Encoder is a terrible substitute for that for two reasons - as axis it is either slow or unprecise (which may be OK for some rough axis). Also - as an axis, you lose the encoder pulses, so you have to choose (may be fixed by later SW upgrade, I hope). And encoder itself is good for repetitive pressing of a button, but not as a substitute for inc/dec actions for the said axis, because the pulses are actually shorter than a continuous key press. Also, the encoder pulses queue up, even for seconds of action after I stop turning it - which leads to a laggy feeling.
Encoder works for radio channel selector and similar steppy knobs - but two encoders on the STEM would cover that perfectly.
Do you use the encoders for some repeating presses on MDC buttons or something like that? I'd appreciate any good ideas, but I still miss at least one good true axis more.
Bottom axis is strangely placed, but can be fine for things like throttle in helos or warbirds. In L-39 I can use it as one of the three axis for sights. It's not ideal, bit too long and pointy, but thanks for at least that axis.
You can set up encoder input without any queues - but make sure your simulator is ready to absorb short pulses. Another encoder can have different speeds for one axis (with SHIFT)
@@AlexTomSok I know about shift, but I'm not ready to go there yet (and compared to a single axis it's just annoying, isn't it?)... but what do you mean about the pulses? Are we talking about the global settings of the pulse time? I tried to shorten that one to even 10ms. 1) I'm not sure whether I just missed the event because of my FPS (60), but I couldn't see that one on the test. BUT: 2) I don't really see such a tremendous difference in the actual response and queue shortening. It still lags quite a lot - and hardly generates the pulses as fast as 1/(pulse width + whatever overhead)... unless the overhead is so great that shortening the pulses doesn't make any difference at all. With 10ms it should eat 50 events (with 1:1 pulse up/down ratio) in a second. No way it actually works that way. Whether it's a DCS problem or VKB, it still means the encoder is only good for enoder work (as switching discrete radio channels) but in no way to emit enough events to actually inc/dec some axis in any meaningfully fast manner. (Not talking about encoder configured as axis in this case.)
Too bad the EU prices are significantly higher than $, STECS Standard is €357, that’s $387… I can get the WW Orion 2 Max combo for €499 shipping included..
Yep at those prices the WW setups are a better value
VKB EU Prices have VAT included, pretty Sure the WW do not
@@dundee248 VAT is included in the 499
People forget that this STECS is only the VKB Phase 1 product. Their entry level line from three tier system.
The next models coming are their Pro model and then their Pro linear axis throttle.
Those will be couple hundred more in price, the linear variant coming only in Pro version.
I did not forget. That's just not on the market and we have no idea when what will be out.
It's brilliant, in all versions imho, though I think the max is bested used mounted (desk mount or cockpit), while all other versions seem to work just fine with desk use too. The MFH with the Standard Throttle Extension Module is perfect when below desk level as you can reach all the buttons easier in that configuration while the Standard seems more desk use friendly. But if you are using already a cockpit, you might want to mount the exetenion module somewhere else and just use a longer USB-C cable to position it somewhere to your taste.
The wheel on the right throttle is for me btw in a good spot to reach if you go with my thumb below it. Means I have to adjust my hand position on the throttle slightly and lose access to a lot of buttons in that moment, but it is a pretty smooth transition while keeping control of the throttle itself. So I consider it a plus even when I certainly would be careful what I place onto that one.
I do wonder what could need that analog axis for when I already have access to so many axis.
Brightness Slider?
The one thing I really appreciate about my Virpil throttle is the metal base. It feels very sturdy and well built. In the video, this looks a little plastic and light. Am I wrong?.. P.S. I do use VKB Gunfighter stick and base and I love it, so nothing against them.
It is not light nor flimsy. It feels rugged, and well built
Base supported with glass-fiber-reinforced PA for load-bearing structures
Tabletop baseplate made from aluminum.
Feels pretty sturdy to me, not as sturdy as CH Products stuff, because I am pretty sure the plastic parts are a little thinner, but basically it's using metal on almost all the right places and plastic in places where plastic seems fine. The right kind of plastic. Still wish the button covers had been metal. Would feel better imho. But that is a really minor complain, compared to all the things they did right with the whole thing.
Got my S-TECS this past week and I've been enjoying it--and promptly dreading additional expense as I picked the Mini Plus and didn't realize the buttons and hat switches could be swapped.
send it back
exp with VKB today
"I guess the proper name for the switch in question is a "Trigger switch" yes? now all I need is how to replace the switch i can find nothing on youtue on our VKB's forum. I'm not too pleased on how VKB expects me to change the trigger without instructions is that too much to expect??? how about you take all my VKB products in trade for a WINWING or VPRILE ...,.. ARE YOU GOING TO STAND BEHIND YOUR youtube WHAT!... AT 74 I THINK I CAN HANDLE REMOVING A BUNCH OF SCREWS IF THAT WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO PROBABLY CROSS-THREAD THEM AND RUIN THE THROTTLE" coulden type I so pissed VKB wrong choice
I've got the mini, for the cost there's nothing that come close to that thing. I love it
My stecs throttle won’t bind in vr ! It binds in desk top not vr. Annoying. Still trying to figure it out
That is very odd, there should be no difference, what I'd suggest doing is to go to the VKB discord, there are great people there who will be able to help!
To bad I already have the CM3, I got tired of waiting for STECS and I can’t justift the cost for yet another throttle. That beeing said: the CM3 works great togehter with Gunfighter MK3 and the VKB rudder.
The CM3 is a good peice of kit too. I sold all of my WW gear and I'm using the STECS fulltime now.
@FalconsLedge wow.. very interesting. I'm about to upgrade hotas. Was pretty sure I'd go WW orion2 max (w 16ex stick)... but I wonder if u would def suggest stecs plus GF iv w/ scg or mcg??
Follow up question: your thoughts on orion2 stick base vs Gunfighter iii or iv? I'll be using in side stick config with no extension.
@@keithbriscoe99 imo gunfighter is better
Let me clarify @@keithbriscoe99 , The strength of the Orion 2 is in replica sticks. VKB and Virpil excel in space combat sticks and general sticks.
The gimbals on the VKB and Virpil are better
@Falcons Ledge why are the display's are white and not green as normal is there any option for it or is it modded ? ( timestamp 20:29 )
I believe it's a mod my squadron uses
@@FalconsLedge ok i thougt its a mod cause the real F15 have only green and the AMPCD is multicolor
I've been using the thrustmaster T16000M and TWCS throttle and I've been wanting to upgrade some stuff, I don't have a massive budget and I'm not sure if I want to buy the STECS or Gladiator stick with a panel. I've been leaning towards the STECS since I've been flying the F15E in DCS but I'm still undecided. if you see this, could you give me and recommendations?
Buying one then the other is a great idea. Personally I think the stick is the most important part, so if it was me I'd get gladiator then the throttle later
@@FalconsLedge alright, thanks!
Great review - I love my STECS Standard!
Also using my MCGU concave hat for slew, it's awesome.
so do i My exp with VKB today
"I guess the proper name for the switch in question is a "Trigger switch" yes? now all I need is how to replace the switch i can find nothing on youtue on our VKB's forum. I'm not too pleased on how VKB expects me to change the trigger without instructions is that too much to expect??? how about you take all my VKB products in trade for a WINWING or VPRILE ...,.. ARE YOU GOING TO STAND BEHIND YOUR youtube WHAT!... AT 74 I THINK I CAN HANDLE REMOVING A BUNCH OF SCREWS IF THAT WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO PROBABLY CROSS-THREAD THEM AND RUIN THE THROTTLE" coulden type I so pissed VKB wrong choice
I am curious, why did you not just stick 5 ways everywhere and change the caps on them? I can't think of any reason why you'd ever mechanically choose a 3 way over a 5 way (unless it was one of those 3 ways that gets stuck in one of its positions).
Because I don't really need a 5 way there, and the 3 way has a different cap.
@@FalconsLedge Are you not able to swap the caps on the hats? I was under the impression that you could.
@@jimmydesouza4375 All hats are swappable, yep.
Excellent Review, This throttle i going to try to save up for since it was officially announced this year if possible. Also as a quick side note the link for the recommended group discord is invalid. I was able to find it through search functions as a heads up.
Interesting, I regenerated the links to mine, VKB, and ASAW before posting. Thanks for letting me know.
yw
@@FalconsLedge
The thumb scroll has too much resistance and is far to reach and my glove size is XL ...no idea whose able to reach that. Since it's hard to reach it needs a softer resistance to turn
My glove size is xl also and I'm not a fan of the position of the thumb wheel nor the choice of cap for it
@@FalconsLedge I have (unfortunately) small hands, but as long as I go with my thumb under the wheel, it works perfectly fine and I have access to the whole axis in just one movement. But that requires hand adjustments… still seems fine to me, and considering the insane amount of buttons already avaible, I certainly prefer it over another button.
Does not work out at all for me if I try to use the wheel from the top as I lose all precision that way. but I don't think it was intended to be used from the top.
@@Traumglanz I used it fine for absolute speed limiter in SC, but still not a great feel honestly
First off: I would've loved to see the innards of this thing. Any plans on taking off the base-plate and showing off what it looks like on the inside? Would be very interesting to see what kind of materials and construction-methods they're using.
Seeing the product up close like that in your vid, I can't help but think that it looks just a little too plastic-y for its price-tag. Yes: I know that with modern plastics this really isn't an issue, but there's still something to be said about an all metal or mostly metal HOTAS-product sitting on your desk. Heck, I'm still planning on upgrading my MCGP-grip to the Ultimate. Technically and functionality-wise, there's no real benefit, but I *would* have a metal grip instead of a plastic one. :D
Anyway: EU and US prices for the STECS' are pretty much the same AFAIK (EU's base price is higher, but shipping rates in the US are much higher than ours), so this is a "global" issue. :)
I can't make any comments on the STECS of course (never seen or used it), but the one thing that lets me not regret my "impatience" and going with the Virpil CM3 when it was on sale in early 2023 is the absence of VKB's much anticipated digital detents on the STECS. If those were on there (for the current price), I might view things a little differently.
I opened it up in the open boxing video. Metal ball bearings, fairly straight forward build plastic clutches on the primary axis.
The digital detents, I think the hype surrounding that were more of a creation of the fanbase than VKB themselves. I believe the electric detents are already in, they just aren't what people thought they'd be. I do like their implementation though.
@@FalconsLedge Interesting... I thought those would maybe come later? I mean... they called this launch "phase one", right? The thing with mechanical detents is that they're great to have in theory ... if you fly only one plane/sim. In IL-2 for example, I have my Virpil's detent set up (and the axis customized in the SW) for most of the Bf 109s. But if I switch to an FW 190, whose engine goes from combat to emergency at a slightly different setting, my detents become almost a hindrance. Full combat power in the 109s is 80%, in the 190s it's 85%, so running full combat on the 190 means my rollers will sit on the detent because I have to push past the 80% mark. As a consequence, the throttle won't really stay in place. THe weight of the grips will pull it towards 100% if I take my hand off. Nothing you can do about that, really, with this type of mechanical implementation. Having some sort of digital detents would be the way to go here, although I've no idea how you would implement the mechanical aspect of those. Some sort of solution involving electric-magnets, perhaps? Not sure, since I'm not an engineer.. :)
The simplest solution would be for the game to let you "calibrate" your detent for each plane individually, but AFAIK, that can't be done in either IL-2 or DCS. I could be wrong.
@@1SaG maybe so, and maybe I missed it but I never saw VKB say electro magnets or anything it was other people staying that
@@FalconsLedge From AeroGator's post on the VKB Forum:
"These are nice things but not a breakthrough. The proper breakthrough comes right below....
ELECTRONIC detents. A landslide change of the rules of the game. We are turning the old page over.
Now: programmable detents. YOU will set detents position as well as their type (warning tactile click or hard limit, one- or two-way detent).
Electronic detents are now being patented. For this reason we cannot show the final design of the base here (but it exists already). Actual base will have a lot more controls than shown in the picture of the devkit, and we will sure flash it shortly before the device goes onto the shops' shelves.There is also one more thing up our sleeve that we are not going to elaborate here - but rest assured it will considerably expand the functionality and ergonomics of the base."
forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5054
Posted Jan 2021.
Re electro-magnets: I was just speculating there. Like I said: No idea how you would implement electronic detents that would also give you tactile feedback you'd expect from a mechanical detent. And be able to switch that detent around at the touch of a button or selector-switch.
does this dual throttle make sense in star citizen? i feel like the answer is no
Not yet
They've already said they will support it, and also, that's not the only feature that is useful in SC lol
Finally! I’ve been waiting for this for so long.
My exp with VKB today
"I guess the proper name for the switch in question is a "Trigger switch" yes? now all I need is how to replace the switch i can find nothing on youtue on our VKB's forum. I'm not too pleased on how VKB expects me to change the trigger without instructions is that too much to expect??? how about you take all my VKB products in trade for a WINWING or VPRILE ...,.. ARE YOU GOING TO STAND BEHIND YOUR youtube WHAT!... AT 74 I THINK I CAN HANDLE REMOVING A BUNCH OF SCREWS IF THAT WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO PROBABLY CROSS-THREAD THEM AND RUIN THE THROTTLE" coulden type I so pissed VKB wrong choice
Comments feed the algo
Thanks for a great review!
Are they releasing a rail version?
They plan to
Rail?
@@gibmeister5854I believe instead of the throttle sitting on a fixed axis and pivoting forwards and backwards, the throttle is mounted with wheels on a rail and slides lengthwise forwards and backwards.
As an example, the Eurofighter Typhoon has a throttle in this style.
@@gibmeister5854probably a straight version, that does not tilt forward and back but instead slides
@@gibmeister5854Linear motion (vs. current radial).
Am I crazy or is there a serious amount of stiction in the shot at 0:51 ?
Nope no stiction, this throttle is incredibly smooth.
@@FalconsLedge Yeah, all other shots look buttery smooth, just that one for some reason looks like it stuck a bit... and not on a detent. Maybe just an optical illusion because of the way you moved it?
@@b34k97 Nah, it looks like it's just an illusion because he started slow and then went quick to the detent.
@@b34k97 I've been really impressed with how smooth the main axis moves
My exp with VKB today
"I guess the proper name for the switch in question is a "Trigger switch" yes? now all I need is how to replace the switch i can find nothing on youtue on our VKB's forum. I'm not too pleased on how VKB expects me to change the trigger without instructions is that too much to expect??? how about you take all my VKB products in trade for a WINWING or VPRILE ...,.. ARE YOU GOING TO STAND BEHIND YOUR youtube WHAT!... AT 74 I THINK I CAN HANDLE REMOVING A BUNCH OF SCREWS IF THAT WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO PROBABLY CROSS-THREAD THEM AND RUIN THE THROTTLE" coulden type I so pissed VKB wrong choice
All due respect, but all of the major brands are going to do the same things, they're going to send parts and try to help you fix it yourself. Its just too expensive to have you ship it to china and back.
I'm sure if you get on VKB's discord people there would be able to help you change it.