(Check description) Halo 2 Nostalgia: Examining the Restored Lighting Mod
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- IMPORTANT:
I have found that this mod uses a LOT of work by someone called 'SEV' - please go and check out their channel at: / @i_sev_i
These shaders also are not related to the original E3 stencil shadows, they are a different shader added in and not related to the original Bungie stencil engine.
In this video, we explore a mod by 'Mr.PirateFox' (Although it makes extensive usage of shaders by SEV, as above). Available on the Steam Workshop for Halo MCC, this mod enhances the first three levels-Cairo, Outskirts, and Metropolis-bringing back the intended visual aesthetics. We'll compare these updated graphics to the original ones, showcasing the significant improvements and detailing how this mod revitalizes the classic game.
Steam Workshop link (Mod made by 'Mr.PirateFox', using shaders by / @i_sev_i):
🔗 steamcommunity...
E3 2002 Announcement trailer for Halo 2:
• Halo 2 E3 2002 Reveal ...
E3 2003 Trailer:
• 🚨ORIGINAL FILE🚨 Halo 2...
#Halo2 #HaloMCC #Modding #DynamicLighting #StencilEngine #Gaming #HaloMods #Cairo #Outskirts #Metropolis #RetroGaming #GamingCommunity
IMPORTANT:
I have found that this mod uses a LOT of work by someone called 'SEV' - please go and check out their channel at: www.youtube.com/@I_SEV_I
These shaders also are not related to the original E3 stencil shadows, they are a different shader added in and not related to the original Bungie stencil engine.
for the record, those are likely stencil shadows in the teaser too. not shadowmaps. aliased stencil shadows do exist. i forget why they end up aliased, something to do with how the stencil buffer is handled or implemented, but yeah. aliased stencil shadows were somewhat common on ps2. some examples: silent hills 2, 3 and 4, ico and sotc (character and enemy shadowcasting only), stolen (2005), some others. just felt like clearing that up
The problem here is the character models don't seem to be casting shadows on themselves, meaning they look just as flat as always. This is a huge step in the right direction as the environmental shadows are much improved, but to really capture that E3 nostalgia we need character models that cast shadows on their own character models.
But they do cast shadows on themselves in this mod? It's just not easy to see it in this video
Although since this mod doesn't use the stencil shadows used in early Halo 2 builds, but rather dynamic shadowmaps (which are used in some retail Halo 2 levels), self shadowing usually looks pixelated
they do cast shadows, the problem is that the lower the shadow resolution, the less detail the shadows are able to capture, so sometimes it looks like they have no self shadowing. It really depends in the situation
Yeah these are CE's shadows, the stencil shadows were totally removed from the engine... I could see them being added to project cartographer since it's not tied to MCC's framework.
the game was never meant to look how the e3 accouncement did, that was more so a technical test, everything was way too high res and the models poly count was too high. they were made specifically for the trailer
If we somehow get a mod that reimplements the canned stencil shadows I’ll actually fucking scream and maybe shit my pants a little bit. Just a bit.
That'd require an alpha source code leak of their old engine, I think. And considering how many iterations it went through, that old engine would probably be incompatible with a lot of the final game assets. It's sad that it might never see light of day, but hopefully one day someone accidentally puts something where it's not supposed to be so some hackers that love this old game can work some magic.
343 should release the dev build of h2 from the IGN play through with O’ Connor
343 Industries is not allowed to share builds, just certain assets
@@protocetid with consideration to IP rights, I understand - but you’d think after 20+ years it would be a non issue. I’d imagine there are salvageable builds that could be “extracted” into a project like restoring Vanilla H2 into a more completed product. But I guess only time will tell.
We are getting almost everything that is in Microsoft’s archives that isn’t audio and builds themselves IIRC. The last Digsite blog post shared a key plot points document for proto H1 so we know we will likely get similar information for H2. Don’t know if they’d be willing to give us a detailed script of the story, they haven’t done it for H1. Regardless I’m sure we will get enough content to fulfill Bungie’s original vision for H2 even if fans have to fill some holes themselves. The question is if there are enough talented fans who are willing to undertake such an endeavor. There would be more motivation if Microsoft did what Valve does and allowed fans to sell fan made games using their IP.
@@protocetid I think Bungie's original vision for Halo 2 was effectively most of Halo 3 as well - though the Ark was located on Earth rather than the portal to the Ark, which IMO would've been cooler IMO.
@@InnuendoXP There are major campaign levels that were cut that have no H3 equivalents like the famous Forerunner Tank. The Digsite team already dashed our hopes of seeing what that level was when they told us that there’s nothing left of it in Microsoft’s archives. We do know they have alphamoon, they might have covenantship and others too. The final act of H2 was altered and lengthened with new stuff for the third game. The last part of the early H2 storyboard diverges significantly not only from H3 but also H2.
Johnson is a hostage during Arbiter and his Elites’ battle with Tartarus. After Arbiter finished off the Brute leader, one of the Elites physically restrains Johnson. Arbiter looks at the Sergeant and narrows his eyes. The storyboard states there would be gameplay right after, don’t have the faintest clue what that gameplay could be. The Elites and humans somehow become allies because Miranda and Johnson arrive in Phantoms in Earth Ark.
Chief crash landing onto Earth and heading towards the Ark looks similar to H3, just erase the jungle and go straight to the desert. Chief, the major human characters, Arbiter and his Elites would manage to get close to the Ark before the shield Truth activated would deny them access. What followed was a trench run to get to the Ark’s entrance. What the inside of the Ark looked like is unknown, it could’ve been different.
So far I’ve covered the gameplay differences, look at the storyboards so you can see how the plot and cutscenes are not just a rehash of H3. The confrontation between Arbiter and Truth sounds like it was really cut down in H3. In leaked proto H2 voice lines Arbiter goes over the oath the Elites swore to the Prophets and in another he confronts Truth about him knowing the rings would eradicate life. We are missing out on some juicy details. In H3 Truth’s rationale for activating the rings has been said to have some glaring holes, holes that might not exist in proto H2. It looks like killing Truth would’ve been part of gameplay.
Truth is taken care of and Chief forces deactivation of the Ark and Halos. It causes the facility to collapse and the two protagonists escape via different routes that would somehow lead to two separate endings. Chief’s isn’t anything too surprising, Arbiter would find a Forerunner data vault and coffin. In it would be a human skeleton.
The lighting is what fundamentally sets apart the Vanilla H2 we all know and love from the e3 look + earlier commercials... I've read somewhere that in order for this really to be implemented, the source code of the engine would have to be changed, which to my understanding isn't feasible.
Well, technically...
An open source version of the Halo 2 Blam engine could be created as a project on GitHub, that could run maps and assets copied over from a legally purchased copy of MCC.
Much like how GZDoom, an open source version of Doom, can run maps from the original Doom with massive amounts of improvements.
Now granted, Halo 2 is a little more complex than Doom. Whether there's a community will to undertake such a project, who knows?
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@@deeves8986 For that to work Microsoft would have to release the source code for Halo 2's engine, it'd be great for Halo if it happens because the old games will no longer be under the shackles of 343i but I doubt it will happen any time soon, if at all.
I really want to see it happen though, I need it in my life.
@@Phantom_Aspekt Reverse engineering is possible, but difficult and requires a lot of interest and people caring about the game. Something old nintendo 64 games benefit from, but not a lot else sadly
@@deeves8986 oh you know there is, will it be quick and super popular? Perhaps not but the community definitely exists
the original e3 engines did in fact use shadow volumes aka stencil shadows, hence the nickname "stencil engine". This was gutted for retail H2 and we're left with quite low quality shadow maps
The original attempted stencil shadows. They are vector based and resolution agnostic, but always razor sharp (NO soft shadows)
So much more dynamic, hope they use this when they restore the e3 level
Halo 2: Mastered
SEV an amazing modder is working to modify halo 2s shadow and lighting system he released his early version of his shader system for modders to use thats what your seeing here.
Ive been combing through Halo 2's campaign looking for specific spots/light sources that cast the real time shadows. So far ive found one in every level, and its still cool how they tried to incorporate what dynamic lighting they could.
Heres the list I made:
-Cairo Station, at the end, the elevator has a light source that casts real time shadows.
New Mombasa, when going through a dark hallway, right before reaching the ODST's pelican crash site
The Arbitor, the hallway after the elevator segment
The Oracle, when chasing the Heretic, right before the boss battle, when ascending up the ramps. (Seems like Halo 2's most common source of dynamic lighting are one or two lights that are flashing/flickering.
This is what ive found so far. When i realized what bungie wanted their game to actually look like, and realizing there are hidden dynamic lights like on the multiplayer map Foundation (the fan room), I'm gonna try to find them all.
Update: every level has at least a source of dynamic lighting, or dynamic shadowing.
It's funny, because not every level has one, the only ones missing them are Regret, High Charity, and Uprising. Most of the sources of dynamic lighting are flickering lights, but some like Delta Halo's, are in the corridors' underwater lighting in between elevator rides. The last level, The Great Journey, has one tiny light source at the very end. (After Johnson fires the scarab, in the destroyed room with debris, there a small spark towards the door)
It really makes me try and imagine how halo 2 would be if they could add this dynamic lighting wherever they wanted. DOOM 3 is a great example of what could have been.
Hard to believe that these shadows made the OG Xbox shit itself.
This isn’t Stencil shadows
@@ThePilleroflightningthen what is it
Most likely shadow maps: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_mapping
Stencil shadows are pixel perfect and work slightly differently: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_volume
Actually, it's really easy to believe trying to put stencil volumes in a game as large scale as Halo would bring the Xbox to its knees when CE was already pushing it far and Xbox Doom 3 being a miracle.
fear had very high system requirements for the time and that was a pc exclusive in 2005, when it got ported the the 360 in 06 it still had frame drops. The game takes place in an office for like 95% of it, and it still brought new(for the time) tech to its knees, halo 2 with stencils would of made original Xbox's explode.
A big problem with modding potential currently is that the Halo engine (H1-2-3) has a very restrictive hard cap on VFX rendered in any given frame, so dreams of fully implementing say dynamic lights for muzzleflashes, bolt projectiles, hits, environments-- The engine will simply not render new effects after reaching the cap, I suspect that's what's happening with for instance the plasma pistol here, and the very cheap muzzleflash lights (muzzleflashes light files attached to the effect file for firing alongside rest of particles etc makes for a more robust and better muzzleflash as the light renders on top of your FP model as well as in the environment and isn't culled as early if the cap is reached)
I was hoping 343 would raise the caps like they did raise some limits for Halo 1 (I think it was like entity or prop limits or something like that) but they never did, and so we can't go full hog with the potential dynamic effects :'(
The outskirts got completely robbed by the lack of shadows in the original. I feel like they wanted to give the players a very striking image of a city in an arid environment, with a strong contrast between cool shadows and blown out concrete exposed to the sun. This does a great job of making the level look significantly better.
To be fair, the cut-scenes must have integrated some of the changes, because the Hunter's fuel rod lights are added in the first. (10:52)
Also... I really wish you would have gone for the soccer ball in metropolis. I wonder what that giant expanse of unused city would have looked like correctly lit.
The shadows needs to be darker, the art was designed around dark contrasty shadows, they also need to cast shadows on themselves but Idk if that's possible to fix
I think Halo 1 holds up better than Halo 2 graphically, Halo 2 feels like a step back in many ways with its muddy and flat overall appearance. Also that era's bloom may hold nostalgic value for many, but for me it's just aged terribly, especially with the glowing skin, a side effect of the low dynamic range (SDR) as you alluded to.
if you showed me this yesterday i would ask what does the mod do. because this is how the game looked in my mind. but yeah, "stencil" shadows make a hell of a lot of difference.
So, we can finally play H2 the way it was intended?
IDK if its just me but I'm not really seeing any difference, i was playing some HALO 2 the other day with the uncut content mod.
It is moderatly more noticable and does improve some areas. Though, other areas are aboviously just as bad. Lighting was always Halo 2's biggest flaw with its art style imo.
Watch late night gamings recent halo 2 video.
This mod is broken and a WIP. If it works correctly it acutally makes every thing look like it make sense.
Every texture and model all look like oily acne skin in vanilla H2.
Those who can't tell the differece go see Latenight gaming video on it "Why H2 look worse than CE"
@@monolith4653 I'm sure that once it's finished, Halo 2 will look the way it was always meant to look. But as it stands, yeah the author has their work cut out for em.
even without the stencil shadows, halo 2 still looks better than halo combat evolved. That video is bs
@@coolAL2 you are blind af, lol
@@coolAL2 The title is but the video is not. It does a great work at explaining what happened and why. A better way to present that video could have been something between the lines of "What we almost had"
@@coolAL2 No Halo 2 looks pretty terrible compared to Halo CE. The main flaw to me is the lack of contrast and I do think the textures in Halo 2 show their flaws more. I mean you can easily the compression in Chief's hand holding certain guns.
Hey, really cool mod, really sick. Just wondering if you were planning on crediting the original creator for the work you're using without mentioning him? SEV's great at what he does, and it's really disheartening for him, and for the fellow modders who've worked with him and like what he does, to see this mod using his work without so much as mentioning that this is mostly his stuff.
SEV's been working hard on the revamped the shaders and dynamic lighting stuff you're using for years at this point. He's a huge part of the reason the upcoming Halo 2 Rebalanced is able to look as great as it does. He's been pouring his heart and soul, not to mention time, into an element of Halo 2 modding that most people seem to clearly adore and appreciate, and he's basically the only modder doing it. The amount of attention you're unfairly receiving far far far exceeds the recognition he's gotten, which is pretty heinous given he's the one actually putting in the work.
We get newcomers to our server every other day now posting *your* videos, congratulating *your* work, while asking us if we can manage to incorporate this great lighting into Halo 2 Rebalanced. The people asking us if we can add it don't know that the only reason your lighting mod exists is because *our* overqualified team member has been working extremely diligently on it *WITH US* for literal years. The very least you could do is tell the people engaging with your videos in good faith that you're using SEV's work.
Yeah i am the one who developed the lighting code in this mod, Mr.PirateFox placed lights the lights and published the mod but uses alot of my work. the code and shaders making this possible was developed by me, also it has nothing to do with the original e3 lighting, my lighting code seen in this video/mod uses a 5tap pcf filter with a 12point random offset. not stencil shadows. if you want to see updates on my stuff you can check my page. please update the credits to include me and make it clear that this isnt using any techniques from e3.
Hey, just to be clear I've not made this mod or worked on it in any way I just found the mod on the Steam Workshop and made a video on it. The mod creator mentions SEV shaders in their description but I wasn't sure what they meant by that.
@@I_SEV_I Hey - I'll add your channel in the description and add some info about this. The modder who worked on this does mention 'SEV shaders' on their workshop page but they don't link to your channel.
@@314Reactor yeah, i know you didnt make it, i need to talk next with the creator on being a bit more specific in my involvement with the work you see in the mod to avoid this confusion lol, i worked on the code/shaders that make quality dynamic lighting like this possible in H2. having said that, as this is a showcase video showing this mod with my work to alot of people i would still really appreciate it if you could properly credit me in your video description and point people to where they can find updates and more info about my work you see used in the mod (my YT page) - Thanks for your understanding.
I've updated the description in both videos, let me know if you want any more added. I'm gonna add a card into the start of both videos as well ASAP linking to your channel if that's ok. I've also subbed to your channel - let me know if you want a video made specifically clearing things up around this.
There has to be a way to replace the rendering pipeline with a custom one that matches the E3 look, similar to how RTX Remix does it, in order to get proper pixel perfect stencil shadows. Don't get me wrong, this is impressive, but it's extremely demanding on the engine due to the shadowmap implementation not being optimized in a way that would allow them to be used heavily throughout the campaign. There are ways to hook in new rendering pipelines into games without having to modify the source code, I guess the problem is that it'd be extremely difficult to implement (consider how long it took RTX Remix to come out, and they're making that with an entire professional team, though to be fair that's meant to hook into a whole library of different games, plus it's a pathtracing driven rendering engine), but hey whatever, one can dream.
EDIT: Also, yeah it's been confirmed that the original engine for Halo 2 did use pixel perfect stencil shadows, same technology as Doom 3. It didn't use shadow mapping to my knowledge (unless it used a mix of both for some reason, but I don't really see why they would do it like that), that's what the retail engine uses in some areas, and also what this mod is using.
To be fair, it's likely possible to optimize or at the very least utilize these dynamic lights more intelligently than this mod. It really looks like someone just placed as many dynamic lights on the map as possible performance be damned. Personally, I won't be touching anything that uses SEV's shaders until Ruby's Rebalanced mod comes out.
Looks a bit like DOOM 3 meets Oblivion. Great commentary, if only a bit meandering and unfocused. I do appreciate that it doesn't feel at all overproduced or canned Great pacing in my opinion even though that contradicts my last statements. Lack of 1:1 Comparisons was a major oversight but for a quick first impressions sort of walk-through, it's a fantastic little showcase. You definitely could have inserted some no-commentary comparison shots here and there. Great job nonetheless. -- Would have appreciated it if you had gone more in-depth on your opinions comparing Halo CE to Halo 2. We seem to have noticed the same things. Halo CE looks fantastic up-close. If only they had more time and possibly Xbox 360 hardware when developing Halo 2. One thing I have yet to see is a solid comparison of the two games' graphical fidelity and art styles. Maybe in another video analysis? Make it happen and you've got a sub in me. GG WP :)
I want to find a way to get a demo recording of sorts and let them run with the effect on and off so I can get direct comparisons in the video. Will look into that hopefully in time for the next update video.
@@314Reactor Hey! i am actually the one who developed the lighting code that is used in this mod, Mr.PirateFox simply placed lights around the regular campaign maps using my work/lighting code. the code and shaders making this possible was developed by me, also i would add that it has nothing to do with the original e3 lighting, my lighting code seen in this video/mod uses a 5tap pcf filter with a 12point random offset. not stencil shadows. I would appreciate it if you could update the credits to include me and and make it clear that my work shown in this video isnt using any techniques from e3. on my page you can find updates/work videos of me working on this tech. if you wouldnt mind pinning this comment to avoid confusion from viewers of this vid that would be great too. thanks for your time.
How has no one run this through rtx remix yet?
Yeah, that would probably be better and less hassle.
20:37 wrong, this flickering light in the door casts accurate dynamic shadows in the original game (on Xbox). missed opportunity for the comparison here. I doubt the mod changes anything about it though.
this is what halo 2 looked like as a kid
Why won't 343 do this themselves??
There audio mixing on H2 MCC really pisses me off. It’ll probably never get patched too at this rate.
Does this also work on cutscenes?
Yes. The cutscenes are in an engine and use the same lighting
not really. Some cutscenes already use dynamic lights, but idk how to add more. So far i have only added extra lighting to playable areas
@@mrpiratefox4497 I swear I heard of a modder recently making a tutorial on custom cutscenes, if the info is somewhere I would think it is wherever that is. The most glaring issue for me in H2 was always the scaled back lighting dynamics in cutscenes over gameplay after they couldn’t get the E3 lighting to work on Xbox.
@@AudibleFist im gonna search for the video and see if i'm able to restore some of the cinematic lighting as well
Halo 2's visual style honestly looks unfinished, and I'd bet that's because it _is_ unfinished considering the circumstances it was developed in. Whenever Halo 2 Classic comes up in MCC matchmaking, I always dread not being able to see what's happening on-screen too well because of how dark and flat its graphics are.
But with this lighting mod it looks almost on par with Halo 3, which is impressive for an original Xbox title!
real engine shadows or reshade trick? Be honest, the description sounds promoitional chat gpt written
18:26 not unless we get source code.
Very much like doom 3
This game needs path tracing so bad
This isn't restored lighting, this is just making pretty much every light on the map produce shadow maps on top of the baked lighting that retail H2 already has.
An attempt to mimic the look of the stencil shadows from E3 Halo 2, it doesn't come anywhere close to the real thing though, it does help the models pop a bit more under certain lights because they were made for dynamic lighting but that's about it.
Changes very little in my opinion
Correct, it changes the lighting and shadows, but makes a huge difference