I WAS WRONG - 32 Float and the Zoom F6
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- So that title is a WEE bit clickbait-y, BUT I made a video about why 32-Bit Float isn't necessary. I've changed my mind. I'm so sorry. I love 32-Bit Float, especially in FCPX, and I love the Zoom F6 for it.
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You can contact me at boomreactive.com
Laymen: the files are too big.
8k editing rig: am I a joke to you.
Hahaha. When I record audio in 32-bit float, I downgrade my camera to recording 480p, just so I don't use up too much space....
@@ShaunHautly this is great
Couldn't agree more. The F6 is awesome and I'm never, ever going back to 24-bit.
It’s like having RAW audio. It won’t frame or focus anything that you setup poorly, but you never have to worry about levels again? Yes. Yes.
Not really. If you're using poor mics and you shout really load, the mic won't be able to capture the sound, so 32 bit can't help you here
@@petrub27 I've yet to experience a mic so bad that shouting/yelling distorted the mic itself. Sound Pressure Level (SPL) might be an issue when you're dealing with really big transients (kick drum, for example), but most vocal mics can handle whatever you can throw at them. That aside - if you're using a 32-bit recording system, I think it's safe to assume you're not using a toaster for a microphone, and match your mic type to your source type. And mic amplitudes are TINY compared to line levels.
Since making my first post here, I've recorded a plethora of audio, and haven't had a mic issue even once.
The whole POINT of 32-bit recording, is that it captures an insane dynamic range - so scream or whisper all you want - it's there.
I do recommend looking at Chris Judd's 2019 article: czcams.com/video/byMZkEvYRKw/video.html
That intro was hilarious ahaha 😂 awesome that you did this after using it more! Respect ✊🏻
Ha, thanks! The one missing feature right now is the inability to record at all (32 float or 24) when using it as a USB interface. Having a backup of my recording in case something happens to my computer is the only real drawback I've been having with it lately.
Oh my god, yes. The Zoom F6 is godsend. 32 bit float recording is just awesome.
Since making this video, I've only fallen deeper and deeper in love with the F6.
EXCELLENT CONTENT BRO! The fact that YOU made the mistake makes your review even better and MORE believable! Thanks for the insight and info.
I appreciate that! Filmed with it on Saturday and it saved me from a "yeller." Whew!
I had the same issues with the Zoom F6. It was a big learning curve and it really took some trial and error to understand how the device operated. It really is an amazing audio device and I am writing some new videos about it. I highly recommend getting the Bluetooth adapter. I did a video on it and it helps so much especially if you are a one person crew. My issue with Zoom is they are focusing on so many new devices that they are forgetting to promote and talk about the existing ones. I guess that's why we are here, to talk about what they don't. Also I always record the 32/24 bit together, just because i'm paranoid that something may go wrong. I'm just crazy like that. Also I treat the 32 bit float like a safety net. It's always good to practice the basic audio playbook, like setting the levels as best you can.
I also agree about the "Audio Guy" position being a little less necessary. Especially in the times that we are in. That is why I've grown as a content creator and learned more about lighting and video production.
Great video as always! Have fun with the F6, it's a great device as you already know!
It was your series of videos on it that inspired me to give it a more thorough chance. So thanks for doing that first!
I think that new H8 Octopus thing looks like it would be a really messy device to try and have on set, but other than that, I love when Zoom comes up with new devices because they seem to be focused on solving problems I haven't even realized I have yet.
I’m glad you liked those videos! I’m excited to do more on the F6. Zoom definitely push the limits with tech and gear. I just hope they don’t spread themselves too thin that it compromises existing products
Also the H8 looks so cool! I just don’t know what I would do with it lol
I don't like to criticize, but the H8 looks really impractical to me. I can't imagine wanting all of my cables pointing out in different directions. That just seems really cluttered. I'd feel like a weirdo on set having that spread out on my cart with cables going every which way.
Well at least u're not Japanese, otherwise u'd have to have harakiri. Just kidding, thanks for all the help determining which recorder to buy.
And that is the beauty of 32 bit float audio. I have been using the Mix-Pre 6 II for the last several months and it really is "set it and forget it" easy. One thing that you still need to be worried about however if the limitations on your mic. If you reach the limit of your mic then it will turn to crap because by the time it reaches the recorder it's already destroyed and that makes it unrecoverable. So, make sure you use good mics :p
Yeah, and it has to be placed properly. I got a little cavalier on one shoot and I didn't lower it properly for the next interviewee who was much shorter. I'm able to save all of her signal, but had to bring the noise up with it. Foolish mistake.
I remember that video and you were the only one saying that LOL... I have one and its absolutely fantastic. Glad you now realized :)
Haha, it's one of those innovations that I simply cannot imagine life without at this point.
@@ShaunHautly This week I did a voxpop style street interview, I set a set of Rode Wireless II, one on camera one on a mic handle + a Zoom F2 / lavalier on the interviewer shirt in case. All good. But by curiosity I've check the F2 - 32 bit file and since the responder was 3-4 feet apart I level up (more than 50%) their response to match the interviewer and seriously no difference and quality, these gizmos are really cool. (sorry for my English)
Hello there. I am a non-native English speaker who does not understand the technical terms in this video under these circumstances. You can use lots of images between the videos when you're talking about things like this.
So you can watch more.
By the way, the translation was done with google. Sorry if there is any mistake. Good luck.
Thank you for the comment. I'm always working to make my videos more accessible. Photos or video demonstrations is a great idea. I wish I could translate this to the right language for you, but you didn't say what it was! Cheers.
@@ShaunHautly I'm glad. 😀
I record video of a lot of concerts and often the band plays at one level during rehearsal then they play at a different level during the actual performance.
Yeah. I'm a full convert at this point. I use an F3 and an F2 for everything I do. I used the F6 for a while and loved it, but wanted a smaller size and never used more than two inputs. Great device. Took us a while to learn to trust it.
Earned my sub. The F6 is so helpful for one man crews. MixPre 6 ii is also great but I prefer using the F6.
Totally agree! For podcasting it's also great because you don't have to constantly pay attention to the levels.
Wow I just checked out a 32bit float sample wav. It's like fricking magic. U just turn the volume down and the clipping disappears.
It's a true game changer.
I would have hoped you understood this before buying it. I do admit not being able to set the gain is awkward. But if you still want to set the gain while recording, record in 24 bit and 32 bit. You can set the gain for the 24 bit and the 32 bit will still act like 32 bit. If you use it as a USB interface the dials act like gain dials.
As a “learn by doing” guy, I often end up with the cart in front of the horse. I’m slowly becoming a master of this device. One can only research for so long before just diving in.
Are you liking yours?
Brave man
32bit or regular 24bit with dual channel recording at two separate channels. Obviously set at different levels (on properly set) and one lower as a safety.
That’s how I used to set it with my F4. Now not setting any levels (let alone properly setting two different levels) speeds things up on set and allows me to work with one file in post instead of cutting between two to find the best level.
It was still be done, this is just so slick.
Hey man, audio good, video good, content good, but if you want more viewers you need to rethink your tags, deep dive into them, you're putting so much work into videos be sure to take full advantage of your tags and descriptions. Think of some longer phrases people might search for 3 or 4 words. Keep up with the solid content.
After your last comment about tags, I finally started putting any tags at all into these. Now I’ll have to up my game again!
@@ShaunHautlyJust trying to help. :) The problem is how many people are hunting for those single word tags. Do more phrases people may search.
@@ShaunHautly Shaun, yes, great, but why you didn't go back and edited all your descriptions and added tags? They all work also if you add them AFTERwards bro :) It's literally free additional views you're missing out on
And yes - top content!
Yes 32 bit totally rocks! I've been an audio person for like ever and this has been the best thing for run and gunners, live eventers etc. Problem I'm having is it crashes my Final Cut! I have to first do a sub mix in Pro Tools and then Final Cut is happy. The crash has to do with renders and Ram allocation. Keeps saying I ran out of ram. Nor possible. I have a maxed out M1 max with a 126GB of ram! No, something else going on. Hope it gets resolved.
Love to hear it! Sorry about FCP, though! I've used 32 Float from the zoom recorders (f6 and f3) with no issues. I use FCP on an M1 iMac. Sorry to hear it's bugging out on you. Thanks for the happy comment, though!
Funny intro and informative talk in this vlog.
Just apart the fact that my eyes color receptors got burned out from your flashy red background!!! Geez, dude, I had green ghosting out of it... next time I'll bring welding screen, LOL!
I have a soft pink background and I put a bright red light on it this time. Might have been overkill, eh?
@@ShaunHautly Overkill is a perfect word ;) Real strong afterimage occurs while watching your "red bg" vlog. In general 5 to 60 seconds is enough to experience that retina afterimage phenomenon en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterimage
I looked into this after my last comment and realized I filmed it in HLG3 for the first time and graded it myself (which I should not have done). So it was crazy because it wasn’t even in Rec709, it was in BG2020 and just crammed into 709. Lots of mistakes. The soft pink is what I’m going for with the BG. When I start up production again next month, I’ll make sure to keep it subtle...
@@ShaunHautly What's most cool if that you care about your viewers feedback ;) As for the bg color, maybe there are viewers that likes flashy lights, and I see CZcamsrs use colors as their signature which is cool too.
Good for You!
just a note for the people that think you can set and forget your levels. Going beyond 24 bit (clip range) will have less 'accurate' signal due to math errors in 32bit, so fix it in post should still be a last resort and you should still do your best to stay within the clip range if you want 'the best' signal. The higher you go beyond the clip range into the 32 bit realms the more this problem can occur...
Good point! And mic placement is still paramount to successful audio. Just because someone turns on 32-Float doesn't mean you can throw a mic near someone and expect to have usable audio. It's just an extra failsafe, not a shortcut.
Sir, I use NTG5 and Zoom F6, But ny 32bit Float id not available. I use 24bit. Please Guide...
I'm not sure how to help! The F6 has 32 float, the H6 does not. If your F6 isn't giving you the option, I'd return it or contact support. Good luck!
@ShaunHautly Yeah, F6 has 32bit float. But when mic set on (Mic). In this time, not recording... when I set it on (Mic PH), start recording but not showing 32bit. just rec in 24bit and...
Advice taken.
Glad to have helped!
I'm a complete noob in audio. Do I need some special microphone for this recorded?
Not really. Almost every modern microphone will be able to give you this range. The exception is wireless microphones. The signal is compressed to be transmitted via the radio and the signal that get output by the receiver won’t give you the extra data that a wired mic does.
I used this on set and my audio is jacked! Noise floor through the roof, loud hum, completely wasted audio. I'm using 32 bit float. Any ideas!
That's not fun!
Are the levels of the audio where you want them? I mean, is the "talking" at a good volume and the noise floor is still crazy loud? Or is EVERYTHING too loud? If it's everything, try bringing the gain down in your audio software. (or email me the file)
If the voice levels are fine, but there's tons of noise and hum, then it's likely something in your signal from a microphone, cable, or power source.
There's also a chance that your unit is just faulty, but I'd eliminate some other reasons first. Does it sound bad in the headphones when you monitor the audio?
Will the F6 work well with a low output dynamic like the SM7B?
Yep! Like a charm.
You need 60 to 70 DB gain for the Shure SM7B. The F6 will put out 75DB gain.
I'm using the F6 with an SM58 for recording voice overs in the car sometimes. Works flawlessly.
How does F6 handle the crossover where the level gets too high for the unpadded ADC? I have a feeling that F2 doesn't do any clever mixing but it just jumps from A to B. This is probably fine in most cases at least for speech. However, sometimes when I have beem recording in a noisy environment the amount of background noise varies wildly depending on how loud I speak. I haven't run any controlled testing because it's a really minor issue and could be also related to the mic position, not the recording format or recorder.
While I have no idea how it's handled technically, I have never noticed anything in my audio files to indicate any switching has taken place. So if it's happening with a simple jump from A to B, it's done so smoothly that I've never noticed the change. I haven't put it through any technical gymnastics to stress test it and deliberately find those points, but that's been my experience thus far.
@@ShaunHautly nice, thanks for the reply ☺️ I have been thinking of buying one but I'm kinda leaning towards waiting for the next gen.
I was just now looking into the patent filed by Sound Devices. By a quick skim it looks like they are adding a transition gain when they jump to another ADC. It looks like there is a quite a lot of math involved, which makes me think F2 might not have powerful enough CPU to do it well while F6 might have. Now, I think it's unlikely ZOOM licensed this technology but they must have something similar, because there are only a so many ways to do this with off the shelf components (that they both claim to use).
Can you make a video comparing the Zoom F3 and the MixPre 3/6 recorder?
Probably not: I don't have either of those devices. :-) Though, the F3 is appealing....
Great video man. I am not a qualified sound tech but have done many 24 track recordings from a bedroom studio. The idea of 32 bit Float is really appealing for recording individual tracks or even mastering. I just hope that someone new to audio recording doesn't think press record and worry about it in the mix/post. There are still many other things in preparation other than an auto volume setting for dummies. I saw a video from another Tuber who asked the question, "Will this new format make people lazy"? - He has a point. But guess what - I want one! Peter. - Ps - Subscribed to you today.
Yeah, they'll never make sound idiot proof, but this goes a long way toward helping novices AND saving pros from sudden surges in volume or a speaker with a lot of dynamic range to their performance.
Great video. Glad you changed your position of the Zoom F6. Remarkable pieces of technology. I’ve also found it easy to work with 32 bit floating audio in Final Cut. On the other hand, Logic Pro X unfortunately compresses imported audio to 24 bit audio when I am recording music. I’d rather not lug my computer around to recording sessions and use my F6 as an interface. Have any suggestions on DAWs that can import 32 bit floating audio. I’d rather not ditch Logic, but it looks like I might have to.
I've got nothing for you. That's my same exact problem. MOST of what I do is in FCPX, but when I dabble with music I use Logic and I, too, have been frustrated with the 24 bit compression that Logic does on import. Hopefully an update will fix that. I have not used any other audio software, so I have nothing to recommend. Sorry!
@@ShaunHautly My work-around has been to adjust the 32 bit floating audio files in FCPX and then export them to LPX. This enables me to crank the levels of quiet recordings without adding noise and then mix and master in 24 bit in Logic. The question, I have been unable to answer is: does Logic Pro X compress Final Cut Pro X files to 24 bit audio. It would be really annoying and poorly thought out by Apple if it did compress FCPX audio to 24 bit files as film editors work with 32 bit audio.
With the update that came out yesterday, I was really expecting to see the bit-rate get updated, especially with the new M1 chips. They can CERTAINLY handle a few streams of 32-bit in Logic. I read the notes and didn't see a mention, but I haven't tested it today to make sure they didn't change it.
@@ShaunHautly I may have some good news re Logic and 32 bit floating audio. I recorded tested out some new microphones on a grand piano earlier in the week using 32 bit floating audio. I tested to see if the microphones were generating any microphone noise in FCPX and one was defective. I then decided to do a rough mix for the musician in Logic. It compressed the audio to 24 bit.
And, now for the good news. When I bounced the recording, I had the option to export project as 32 bit floating audio. I take this to mean Logic edits in 24 bit and then applies the changes to 32 bit when you bounce recordings.
More good news. I asked an Apple Logic Pro at Apple this week if when you export a 32 bit floating audio clip from FCPX does it retain the 32 bit audio file or compress it to 24 bit audio. He replied that it retains the 32 bit floating audio, which is a huge relief.
Subscribing 2 min into my first ever episode SOLELY ON THE BASIS YOU ARE CAPABLE OF CHEERFULLY REVERSING AN OPINION when accumulated experience/info/evidence suggests your prior conclusion may have been based on an incomplete understanding or unappreciated facets--this shouldn't be a quality so rare as to immediately merit a subscription...but it damn sure is. ;)
It's admirable especially on three facets: one, a simple refusal to stay stuck in an opinion that you're capable of "knowing better" on, two, even those **capable** of simply changing an opinion after honest re-examination RARELY jump eagerly & enthusaiastically into the change--but you seem happy just to have steered closer to the/a truth, f**k the wrong turn lol, plus, three, the sheer ability to REMAIN OPEN TO CONTRARY NEW INFORMATION & NOT SCREEN IT OUT, DEFLECT IT, RATIONALIZE IT AWAY, but instead just stoke it right into your calculations given all the weight it merits...I'm stumbling trying to express it,, but I"m trying to illustrate that your exceptional frankness moved me to abandon my increasing tendency to limit my subscriptions, & even then only after long scrutiny lol. Be proud of that specific aspect of what you have to offer, especially, is all I'm trying (very poorly I fear lol) to convey.
Happy to have you on board! I am working on a kids show as a side project, and that ability to rethink without one’s ego getting in the way is a key to a very happy life.
In fact, just yesterday I learned that icebergs aren’t the shape I always thought. There’s not some deep, long section going directly underneath the little part that sticks out. Anything shaped like that would just flop over on its side. Blew my mind.
That’s what I’m all about. Being wrong, peacefully. Happy to have you along for the ride! Thanks for the lovely comment!
Apology accepted.
Thank you, I slept much better last night.
@@ShaunHautly hahaha😂📽
7 sound people have seen this so far 😳
Hahaha, that's a good way of keeping track.
thanks for this. can i use the zoom f6 or the mixpre-3 ii with the rode video mic pro + via the 3.5 jack? are there limitations to this quality wise compared to using a xlr shotgun mic? thanks so much for your thoughts.
I replied to your comment on the other video. I suggest you get a decent XLR mic if you're springing for a decent recorder anyway.
What mics do you recommend that don't clip before the recorder does? The mics can choke the SPL before the sound gets to the recorder, right?
MOST microphones will get you as far as you'll reasonably go. If you're recording gun-fire up close (be careful!) or heavy machinery, then you probably need to be more careful. However, almost any mic these days can handle all the yelling and instrument playing you can throw at it from a reasonable distance. I use a RODE NTG3 and and RODE NT5, and neither has distorted in all of my normal interview uses. Even with clapping and loud bursts of laughter (I'm very funny), this has been pristine.
@@ShaunHautly many thanks
howe about f3?
Looks pretty slick! I haven't tried it, but if it's like an F6 junior, it's probably pretty solid. I LOVE the Sony LP battery mount on the F6, and that's lacking on the F3, but perhaps it doesn't need it for extended use? I'll look into it!
Am buying this one
And sell my h6
You will be happy.
Great video!
Thank you!
I purchased the ZOOM F6 and I have connected several microphones (BOYA Lavs, Sennheiser MKE600, Rode Wireless etc) and I receive an awful noise floor to every mic!!! An annoying hiss in every audio! I have the same results even if I connect the same microphones on my mirrorless camera dirrectly (mic input) so why recording on external recorder. Do you have anything to suggest as a workaround?
First of all, that is a very annoying problem to have. Sorry to hear it!
If the microphones hiss regardless of whether you're plugging them into the recorder or the camera, then the problem is likely with the microphones. If you can, try to reduce ANY electronic noise and record a test. Refrigerators in the next room, air conditioners, computers, etc. can all make some serious electronic interference that can affect the signal in a microphone, even if you can't hear it in your ear.
Aside from that, I'm not a good enough expert to help. Check out @RebelTech He is a pro audio mixer and has a TON of experience with the F6 and a wider array of microphones than I do. You shouldn't have to live with hiss.
czcams.com/users/RebelTech1990
@@ShaunHautly thank you very much for all the information. I tried to work a little on this problem, and I found that the hiss decreases considerably if I unplug the headphones that are connected on ZOOM! WEIRD !!!!!
Strange! I found an awful problem with my Sony camera two weeks ago. If my camera is plugged in and charging while I have a mic plugged in, there is some AWFUL noise in the signal. Sound is a strange thing that I do not understand.
@@ShaunHautly for your reference, I have contacted ZOOM support to mention my problem. 2 weeks have passed with no answer from ZOOM!!! I have sent 5 email messages to official local distributor, with no answer! I have sent 2 emaill messages to the US distributor and they told me to contact either my local distributor or ZOOM in Japan. I have sent a message to ZOOM in Japan, but unfortunately NO ANSWER yet! The ZOOM support is awful! I will never purchase any ZOOM product again!
Is it me ? I can hear the sizzle behind your voice. Can the voice be more smoother in Zoom f6 ? Like a big more base? Any help will be appreciated
Yeah, unfortunately, because I wanted to hold the F6 in frame in this video, I'm not using it to record the audio you're hearing. This is coming from a Deity V-Mic D3 Pro, and it's getting a tiny bit of interference from the light I'm using as well as picking up the tiniest bit of fan noise from that same light. Zoom F6 won't fix a bad mic, but it'll give you much better results than the ones in this video.
@@ShaunHautly thanks just trying to understand how this whole thing works . A bit confusing I haven't seen a video explaining what's the difference between voice interface n zoom n preamp mixer it's a bit confusing
Super video! I applauded for $10.00 👏👏👏
Wow, thanks! That's my first applause! Happy to help!
Is 48-bit or 64-bit on the horizon? Playing a bit of devil's advocate for future tech.
I don't think so.
Without an earth-shattering shift in microphone technology, I don't see any real need nor practical application of that technology. 32-Float is already limited by the performance of the best available microphones. This would be akin to a video file that's able to record in the entire spectrum of light, non-viable and visible: There just aren't lenses or sensors that could even capture something that would need that file type.
@@ShaunHautly interesting you mention about camera sensor range. Visible light ranges 0.4 to 0.7 µm and the sensors are capable of capturing outside this range. Manufacturers add a filter to limit the range to that of visible light. The technology is there but not typically used or accessable to the masses.
That's true! I forgot about infared sensor modifications. Ok, bad example, but I hope my point still stands.
Also, watch me be wildly wrong about the advent of 48 and 64 bit... ha
czcams.com/video/eEIl7LL-Zyk/video.html
problem with f6
i have myself a ticking sound since i update the firmware with 1.90E
I took a look at your video, but I don't have any tips for you. Probably need to talk with support (from zoom OR from the company you bought it from, they may send you a new one).