Falcon BMS 4.34 - DCS players vs Falcon BMS
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2019
- I have recruited some DCS players to play some Falcon BMS it was a struggle and of course they hated it but hey imo it is an upgrade.
The first-bit air to air refueling and the last section is A/A combat starting around 10:30.
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how do you find people to play with? I've been on BMS off and on for the past 3 years and have never gotten the chance to play online with others
Join the Falcon Lounge discord.
You can either join Falcon Lounge on Discord or ours 6thvfw on discord I am PrimeUs on both servers
Check out Falcon Online too. Huge dedicated server, constant running 24h campaign! Nearly all the VFS in BMS fly in there too. Jump in the team speak and wait in the channel "Looking for a flight" if your solo and someone will join you soon enough! Everyone is super friendly and helpful too!
There are many groups with dedicated servers
Check
Falcon Online
Veterans Gaming
Both have servers and Huge community.
There are many other groups though.
Bms is more realistic when it comes to the battle theatre.
discord.gg/aCBGdk
Krause's squadron: UOAF - they have events every week with like 20 people flying a persistent campaign together
One of the first exciting experience that got me hook by AF 4.0 and BMS was the radio network communication between the AWAC and the flights battle field. The theatre just lights up with simultaneous activities that makes me feel like i am in really big war.
This is what gets me too making me looking forward to the next war. It can get really hectic especially when you have a human AWACs. You can start to hear the concern in peoples radio calls.
The BMS Alternate Launcher is a huge help being someone coming from DCS, though I did have F4 when it came out. Just never spent a ton of time with it.
I am sure it is I have not used it but I have heard it is more user friendly.
Most obvious differences of BMS vs DCS at first glance:
1: It's possible to see things, even on a compressed Tube vid
2: You can read your mach below 1.0 on the steam gauge
3: You can actually make out distinct land marks on the terrain farther away than just 10 miles
4: LOTS of "be advised" on the comms, would make a nice drinking game :D
5: It runs at more than 20fps on a teneighty :D
Most well-known differences:
1: Dynamic campaign
2: It's done
Biggest reason not to run BMS still:
VR is just too awesome!
The more i play DCS, the more i want to make the jump to Falcon BMS, DCS is really a huge waste of good content in a broken sim
apparently DCS is also less realistic inflight, apparently real life fighter pilots note how you lose speed alot quicker and its harder to gain in DCS. Maybe coding less maneuverability helps to stop the servers from setting on fire lol and there there's its performance issues and jank AI - so that's a hard pass for me VR or not. Looks pretty though and great vehicle variety.
You can go to the BMS forums for pre set joystick setups. I did that back when I first started flying and just adjusted from there. Another must is the falcon alternative launcher which allows you to easily change the keybinds.
In the C:\Falcon BMS 4.34\Docs\01 Input Devices\02 Key File Editor, folder there is an excel key file generator. It seems complicated but its actually quite easy to use. Once you get the hang of it you can quickly make key files for the most obscure joysticks or devices. But most of the common ones are already in there. If you need help feel free to email me at grady_g@outlook.com.
Welcome to the dark side new pilots! Hope you like BMS. It isn't as flashy as DCS but the game play is where it shines.
@Charlie C The warthog stick is identical to the real f16. It is the standard but plenty of pilots use the tm16000. Thrustmaster cougars are the f16 hotas and are good but typically they need some upgrades because they are old. The realsimulator fssb mod is very good but expensive. Vkb and virpil make good sticks. You just have to find one in your price range but I recommend the warthog as a starting point. Also get track ir.
@Charlie C The thrustmaster warthog is the standard to which all hotas are compared. It is an officially licensed replica of the A10 throttle and stick. Build quality is very good because the USAF uses it for training. Most DCS and BMS pilots use it. It also works on any other game with joystick support. I use it in BMS, DCS, IL2 and FSX.
I suggest waiting for it to go on sale because it is pretty expensive. Amazon routinely has 20% discounts throughout the year.
Realsimulator also makes a mod to replace the gimbal of the stick with a force sensor. It is expensive but takes precision flying to a whole new level. I have one for the thrustmaster cougar and highly recommend it but I would wait and see how you like the stock stick before getting aftermarket mods.
Also Track IR is a must have for flight sims in my opinion.
BMS is a good sim. It is as close to flying the real thing as most of us will ever get and definitely has a learning curve system wise (see the included 600 pages of user manual) but the flying is easy. The dynamic campaign really makes the sim feel alive. Check out some videos on unleashedcode's channel to see how stuff can go all to hell in a moments notice.
@Charlie C Also DCS is a good sim. It just requires work to setup missions but there's lots of user created ones you can download. DCS is working on a F16 and a dynamic campaign but they are a few years from being complete.
Only buy the modules when they are on sale. The A10 and F18 are good. I don't recommend the WW2 stuff unless you just want to fly around. If you decide to try WW2 stuff go with IL2. It is a fantastic sim and will make you relearn how to fly warbirds. Plus getting up close and personal and blasting planes to smithereens with cannons as they trail black smoke and fire never gets old. :)
@Charlie C BMS doesn't have VR support and it probably never will without a complete overhaul of the game engine. Definitely not a deal breaker because TrackIR is more than good enough. ATC in BMS is good. It received major updates with 4.34 making radio management pretty important. AI was improved too. For a F-16 sim nothing beats it but it doesn't have plane specific systems modeled for other flyable aircraft. AKA everything has F-16 avionics. The dynamic campaign is the main selling point. No mission will ever be the same so if you screw up a mission and the tanker gets shot down well now everyone is running out of gas and diverting. AWACS get shot down, no more eye in the sky. Your air base gets attacked, you will have to wait for repairs or switch squadrons. Then you may have missions where absolutely nothing happens and you patrol while the bombers do their thing and then go home.
In DCS ATC is pretty much non existent and missions are scripted so you fly it 10 times it will more or less play out the same way. It beats BMS in graphics(not by much if you add some mods) and flyable aircraft. It is more user friendly with detailed training missions and has a larger community for support/multiplayer. There are numerous virtual fighter wings you can join if you want a by the book milsim experience but you have to try out for them and they will still be flying scripted missions. Eagle Dynamics is working on a dynamic campaign so one day it might finally replace BMS.
The usual saying is "BMS is a fighter pilot simulator and DCS is a fighter jet simulator." Both sims have pros and cons. Both require significant time investment to learn. Both are worth flying in my opinion. Falcon 4.0 costs $7 on steam and the BMS mod is free. DCS you can fly the P-51(no guns) and the frogfoot for free if you want to try it out. So once you have a computer capable of running it, a HOTAS, track IR, and rudder pedals the software is cheap. And if you get bored with jets, hop on IL-2 for stick and rudder flying with face melting dogfights.
I recommend the Warthog. I had a X52 but I needed more buttons.
0:36 Grand Prix Legends also came out in 1998, but thanks to a great community, it has received several graphical updates and mods and is still a top of the line racing sim!
The difference is though that BMS has a modern external flightmodel. It's not like modders just used better parameters on F4.0, it's entirely different.
They hated BMS? Let them know how the dynamic campaign works (2D, 3D... with comms, a little map with dots and a text about what happened), SAM logic (pinging, estimating your path for an ambush etc.), every building has its function and is not something you simply destroy like in DCS, logistics, supplies, your crew of pilots who can get more experience... damn. There is much more to tell.... like when you fly towards your assigned target or CAP.. the ground war evolving below you. Everything lives. In DCS... everything is empty and dead.
This is very true. I explained that too them a little bit sometimes it takes them to see it and be apart of it a few times to see where the real fun comes from. There is nothing like flying with 20+ pilots like 5 four ships of aircraft each with a different tasks trying to reach the same goal. Relying on one another for protection and the amount of trust that is needed for the strike package to know that the SAMs will be taken out by the time they get there. Or the Sweep making sure that the skies are clear of enemies.
What do you mean "empty and dead"?
@VerticalFlyingB737 In DCS, the world feels sterile, empty with no intelligent activity.... especially in those linear missions. Multiplayer... well... no fun as well except of practicing dogfights.
Tornado, Fleet Defender, Falcon 3.0 especially 4.0 (BMS) are dynamic with an active enemy realtime, the older titles have some randomness built in. It is totally immersive and delivers an atmosphere.
Let's take Fleet Defender as an example:
Where can you get that cold war feeling... of flying a Tomcat in a time which it was built for against the adversaries of the cold war? Now, we have the nice DCS Tomcat... mixed into this mayham of other aircraft from different times incl. technological upgrades etc.
DCS on the other hand feels like Flight Simulator with some outdated way of delivering missions. Despite this, missions are buggy in DCS or can get buggy after every update. Don't mention the user-made stuff with quite some requirements on additional mods. It all (maps, modules) feels completely disconnected, thrown into a bucket and telling us: here you go (while we in Eagle Dynamics focus on cooperations with several military organizations.
Those dudes who love DCS the way it is are total nerds or active in an online squad... where someone creates missions. Celebrating a civilian prop aircraft for weeks or eagerly awaiting the weaker F-14A for whatever reason.
Believe it or not, Tornado with it's ~10MB is way more advanced in regards to atmosphere (being in a war with an active enemy), dynamic campaign, immersion and fun than DCS ever was. Learning a module is the best DCS has to offer, afterwards it's plain deserted. Thus... DCS is only a boring sandbox simulator with the old excuse of having "powerful editors" to create our own fun.
I'm a bit disappointed of Wags, as a former Digital Integration Tornado lover, he should've known best that DCS requires more than just disconnected stuff => Dynamic Campaign which surpasses Falcon 4.0 without just having this ugly map view... bare bones.
You get the idea. I will hold on to the gem-Time capsules Tornado, Fleet Defender, Falcon 3.0 and BMS for now.
As I mentioned previously... flying towards your target and seeing flashes below... not some scripted horsecrap but the AI fighting each other. It's not just you and your mission. Everything moves, lives and has it's purpose and you are in the middle of that all, in your cockpit as well as outside in the 2D menues, with the little dots, comms etc. Who would've thought that 1998 would be the last time us combat flight simmers would get a dynamic campaign which is going to be held alive for two decades? OVER 20 YEARS
I flew the dynamic campaign with my friend. He was in a flight while I was setting up a mission. He met his escort at a set time while his target was a bridge. Another flight joined him as well to take care of anti air defenses. The AI is incredible in allocating resources to create such flights. I was in a Barcap somewhere else doing my job to counter air threats. Absolutely amazing.
@@Tertius_Oculus Well... as much as I hate to say it this is totally correct. ED did make a module for the Supercarrier that adds flight deck crews to make the carrier feel more alive but that's it, other stuff is left out. But still, I prefer DCS over others because I've grown attached to it. I'll try out Falcon BMS soon along with some other sims you mentioned. Never felt the joy fighting along with ground forces since I played Ace Combat 6.
@@verticalflyingb737 You gotta experience the dynamic campaign of Falcon BMS. But I warn you... DCS may feel depleted afterwards. You only fly the F-16C (others are not worth it), but the environment and the atmosphere in an active battlefield with an active enemy trying to fight your side with their assets... use supplies, allocate resources etc., using their intelligence, gain intelligence & data... it''s really massive.
Plan your flights, use specific pilots, fly preplanned (by AI) missions with a wingman or a complete strike package... forming together at a certain waypoint and flying towards the target like a spear.
Someone recently said that in DCS you get to fly your favourite bird and that's about it.
I'd like to take the moment and say I was your 1000th sub. I'd definitely like a video on how to play this as a dcs player.
Thanks it means a lot! Email me aviationplusone at Gmail. I have something for you. I will have more in depth reviews of both especially when the F16 module come out.
try the falcon lounge... a lot of people helping out there!
I am sooo going to get a few of those T-Shirts
The thing i love about bms is that it has realistic g-tolerance. Notice how the pilot doesnt black out at 4g immediately? After the pilot gets fatigued he'll black out a lot easier
Exactly you can tease 8+ G with some tunneling and still be able to fly but remember to give the pilot a break.
ED are working on it. In the meanwhile you can consider it as flying the jet with an average non-trained human physique.
Reminds me of long hours refueling back a few years
I can control a F16 with a ps3 controller touching the boom!
Airsex fun
still can!
I first started playing DCS but I must tell you that I am really impressed with BMS and I will never stop playing it. DCS is awesome all the way around but sometimes their updates don't work correctly. When I get tired of shooting things down and blowing things up I will jump on FSX and fly from city to city in a commercial jet. Pretty ladies and fast planes makes a guys day complete!
I was playing DCS back when it was called LockOn Flaming Cliffs and playing FSX games before then. Now I have my pilots license and still enjoy flying in simulators. DCS and BMS give me that fighter pilot feel and allow me to get about as close as I can to being in combat. When I would play FSX I would fly around in the PMDG 737. I love realism and want that to be implemented in all simulators besides that is what they are for.
Nice work buddy!! Wanted to ask if there is an easy way to bind the keys for the warthog. Installed the game and it is a maze just to set controls
Welcome to BMS where patience is tested. I use TARGET software that allows for me to set buttons for keyboard commands BMS likes that better also it combines the throttle and the stick into one. BMS splits up the two making it hard to be able to save the bindings. If you need more help let me know. Also, try BMS alternate launcher I heard that works very well.
go to BMS forum and find the presets. its already done. www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?24010-DonLduk-s-Profile-(4-33)
Nice video, subbed!
Thanks welcome to the channel!
The graphics are better in DCS but, besides that, what has more of BMS? I’m undecided between these two (only F16 of course)
Considering whether I should get into BMS? I'm quite facinated by the gameplay and level of realism in BMS.
I have flown some DCS the last couple of years, but not much, lately. Do you think it would be worth it to start up on BMS? Spending the time and effort now, also when thinking that BMS might go sunset some time, maybe sooner than later?
I will have approx a handful of hours a week to play.
Thx in advance :)
It takes a lot to get into but so does getting an education but in the end it's definitely worth it. It is so rewarding and exciting playing with others.
If it's good why not have both DCS and BMS?
In BMS can you plan your own mission? Ground forces placement and orders? How many and which theatres of war are available? Which Planes are modelled? Can you play red side?
I don't have either yet (because I can't move back to PC for a few months).. I wish both had an inplane AWACS operator option........
Best, Pete.
I do have both DCS and BMS but I like the dynamics of BMS better. Yes, No, There are many theaters (Korea, Isreal, Kuwait, Vietnam, Baltics, Spain and more being worked on. Yes, you can play on the red side. This is the last update but they both have the same flying models. www.mudspike.com/falcon-bms-4-33-quick-look/
@@AviationPlus Thank you very much - I think I might enjoy both. I've been following "Unleashed Code"'s vids for yonks... Pete.
@@ptrisonic Recently DCS has added LotATC to connect to multiplayer servers via Simple Radio System. (SRS) you can be a GCI or AWACS via the program. You don't even need DCS running! :)
I have noticed that BMS seems to just be faster responding than DCS. It's like the default control stick gains are higher in BMS, and inputs seem to be acted on more quickly.
Yes this is true DCS I have to really mess with the curves to make the F16 even flyable for my liking. I have become used to the flight model in BMS. Also, there are no curves to adjust in game in BMS anyway. Thanks for watching. Check out my newer videos as well.
FWIW it's a definite fact that the steady state and transient behavior of the F-16 in DCS is off (classified data, that ED can't use) along with some gains in the FLCS are off, because they're based on the old NASA document and not a more up-to-date document with the actual curves. I'm not sure if this has been corrected yet, but it's unlikely it can be based on what kind of data ED would need to use.
On top of that part of the atmospheric modeling isn't that detailed in DCS, so while I can't confirm or deny if stuff like turbulence is accurate in BMS, it nonetheless exists. Although complexity and amount of features does not mean everything. It is more important that the actual model works and the input/output is correct, not just how much stuff it can do necessarily.
I have a feeling that the overall flight modeling is just simply better in BMS, especially the ground-effect aerodynamics, but I'm not really an aero sim guy so I can't comment on that. Some DCS devs have expressed issues with the inherent modeling behavior of DCS which suggests there is some kind of semi-physical based stuff going on, while I'm fairly sure BMS is aeromaps only. Don't quote me though.
It'd be foolish to claim BMS is an ideal simulation but it's probably the best F-16 model any civilian is ever going to get.
I think falcon is on steam summersale right now. Great video btw. I played falcon on the amiga lol
Oh is it. Well even more the reason to get it. I have plenty of other videos on the channel about actual mission that we fly. Thanks for watching.
@@AviationPlus only 4,19 Euros..... store.steampowered.com/app/429530/Falcon_40/
btw can you recomment some cool discord servers? I just bought it and installing bms... thanks
@@fontaholic Here is Falcon Lounge plenty of people to help I am Prime in there feel free to get a hold of me or anyone else. discord.gg/mDnSwp
thanks for the video. I am just buying falcon 4 it is on summer sale right now. bms already downloaded... trying to install it....
Awesome welcome. If you need help there are videos online to go over basically anything regarding this simulator.
What ever your arguments are X vs Y - for me what makes a sim more successful than another. Is the ability of a product to take a couple of average Joes and turn them into flight enthusiasts. With respect to high fidelity flight dynamics, close to realism flight management, and moderate understanding of aviation terminology or "lingo".
The numbers speaks in of them selves.
I understand what you are saying but both sims have the same purpose being a Combat Simulator. It is like comparing Xplane and P3D.
@@AviationPlus Yes, the general purpose of an Air Combat Sim, is to simulate air combat. But the measure of success will always vary from one person to another. Just stating my definiation that I use to measure a successful sim.
Falcon BMS has its place as a respected high fidelity simulator.
Guys BMS is not a game, it doesn't try to make people spend money on it, therefore you can't measure its "success" on how many people use the program. BMS is a combat flight simulator of the F 16 and all its variants that is successful enough to bring us the BEST so far realism when it comes to this particular plane. DCS can never compete with BMS in terms of realism right now on the F16, maybe in the future if ED pulls some kind of mad card out their sleeves these tables might turn but right now, DCS has achieved only 1% of the F 16 realism that BMS offers for fucking free. Tho DCS F16 is still in Alpha so we'll wait and we'll see if they can keep their promise (they promised the best ever F16 simulator wich I doubt they will ever make but I do have faith). Well see!
Does this game have support for force feedback sticks?
i love DCS , i have BMS for the F16 ! but im so lost, its a struggle imho , its alot of fun , keybinds are a pain to setup. just need someone to teach me
Do you still play Falcon BMS, bought the game and downloaded the updates, but never got the chance to play it. Really need to start playing it and find somebody to teach me the learning curve.
Email me aviationplusone at gmail.com. We have a group who will help.
what are the missiles' ranges like compared to DCS? Are they more realistic?
I'm an not too familiar with the ranging in DCS but I know if both aircraft are hot with a closing speed of 1k 20nm is about Rpi (Range Probability of Intercept).
Aviation Plus ok. I know that in DCS the ranges are shortened to roughly 40% You can shoot Rne Shots at
20.000 ft at 12 nm
10.000 ft at 10 nm
Low level at 8 nm
Both head on max burner
I can speak a bit on this. AIM-9x in DCS is very short ranged. Head on shots in DCS are probably only good at 4 miles or less, in BMS it's more like 10. The 9x in BMS can almost be used as a medium range IR missile.
AMRAAMS in DCS and BMS are quite a bit different. They have a very flat trajectory arc in DCS. Even if you try to loft them for extra distance they take a line of sight approach through thicker air and become susceptible to defensive cranking/beaming. In BMS you can loft 120s for higher arcs upwards of 60,000 feet which means the retain more energy for the terminal phase. Even when you don't loft they tend to take a higher arc on their own.
I can't speak on which is more realistic since I've never served and have no inside knowledge, but I can verify that BVR combat in BMS is quite a bit deeper. You can't just defeat Amraams with wide cranks. You have to practice minimum abort ranges, drag missiles out nose-cold, and work with your wingman to establish grinders and other tactics.
In BMS you burn through jammers at about 25 miles. I fox-3 head on usually between 20-25 and I try to ensure I have pitbull, or at least husky, by 17 to execute a min abort range. In DCS I typically don't even shoot until I'm at 17 miles. Altitude and speed depending of course.
In BMS you can even get a relatively high PK shot from 30-40 miles if your target is not jamming and is unsuspecting.
What missile are you talking about? Lol
In my opinion, in bms the missiles range and tracking is exaggerated a bit while in dcs it's so undermined, the real rangd/drag seems to be somewhere in between.
Actually,
streamable.com/cupzi
Look at this link, that's how the missile should perform in a straight launch (the PL12) the AMRAAM isn't doing well due to some simulation issues with dcs.
Also, dcs simulate notching and velocity gates better.
Jamming, i dunno, i don't think anyone can simulate that, but i hope to see someone trying.
I always thought the position of the F15 and F16's refuelling area was a bit suspect, almost like it was an after thought.The boom basket approach that the AV8, Hornet, and Mirage use seems to be more logical as you can physically see what you're doing! I know in real life the boom operator would probably be talking them on, but still.
The boom operator controls the boom like a robot arm. The fighter pilot doesn't need to see what he's doing. He just flies into position under the tanker and holds still. The boom operator does the rest.
Callsign: JoNay good to know. Even so, as a civilian who doesn’t know any better it’s seems to me it’s adding more risk to a already risky process unnecessarily.
@@UncappingBadger There's a lot of great videos on CZcams if you search for aerial refueling where you can see it from the boom operators perspective. It's pretty chill. The boom operator often chit chats with the pilots and even tells jokes.
@@UncappingBadger If you were trying to catch the boom and the boom operator would try to catch you, now that would be "adding more risk to an already risky process unnecessarily".
Well...your buddy is much better than me at refuelling...I cannot even stay on speed with the tanker xD
It all takes practice and a a decent stick. Sometimes I have a pillow holding up my wrist to help with fatigue.
@@AviationPlus I have the best joystick in the world (Genius F23 USB super accurate joystick) so I don't know why is my flying so shitty for formation flying but incredible for airshows 😭😂
@@simpilothr6653 Welp seems like for you it's practice. Remember small movements.
Guys so I want to get back into playing this type of a game again. Last time I played anything g clos to this was US NAVY FIGHTERS 97
I am trying to determine which to go with... Seems like there are two titles to choose from "Falcon BMS and DCS" I am trying to determine which is better for me. I loved USNF.
It is great be sure to watch the rest of my videos of actual missions. Thanks for watching and happy flying.
how come your hud looks different than your buddy's ? is there a mod your using ? if so can you link it?
How can you tell and what buddy are you referring too? This is not a mod it comes with the game depending on what block F16 you have. This HUD is equipt on the F16 blocks (not sure what block) that have FLIR capabilities that will display FLIR on the HUD this one in the video has that capability. falcon-online.org/forum/index.php?topic=1534.0
Aviation Plus
Block 42 if I remember correctly.
Big DCS guy, do you know where I can find people to help me get into BMS?
Falcon Lounge Discord
Damn those T-shirts look SICK. But sadly they don't ship to my country 😭
What country are you wanting the shirts to be shipped to?
@@AviationPlus India
13:20 how does the dcs player not know about pit bull?
Which server do you usually play on? I'm struggling to find any
There is not a server list in game. You must have the IP address for the server to play. Usually when we play one of the players hosts the server and we all join in. Join Falcon Lounge Discord for access and missions to be apart of.
Hey, I'll try to fly with you guys over at UOAF
That would be awesome. I am trying to get back in it too. Been a few weeks.
+Aviation Plus can i go up with you one of these days? Also i play bms with a edited keyboard. Cant afford a joystick yet. Also bms 4.34 has a working helmet visor. And surprise; im a new sub😁
Thanks for the sub. Ya of course one of these days, but I am not sure how you will be able to fly efficiently with an "edited keyboard"
@@AviationPlus😅 i found a few lines of code that enables me to adjust the sensitivity of the keyboard controls. Its made refuelling so much easier for me but it works for me tho i can keep formations very well
the best thing in BMS is the aerodynamics , when it becomes to that it is superior to any flight sim out there however the damage system is quite off sometimes you have to shoot 2 missiles to destroy bombers .
Thanks for watching. The aerodynamics are on point. Well when you think about it it takes one missile for small fighters so more than one missile for large bombers isn't too far fetched. Of course this all depends on the missile destination distance.
Falcon 4.0 in an earlier than BMS variant was so responsive and stable that literally everybody in my family soon learned to refuel with realism settings at 100 percent. IT'S NOT THAT HARD. You just MUST have a good joystick and throttle.
Ya it is not too bad once you get it down and practice it is all about muscle memory. Practice is needed and with some tips and advice from others who have done it to make it more achievable. A good joystick helps as well. Thanks for watching.
falcon bms has outstanding graphics, i dont know how people could be turned off by them
it's amazing but outdated. lets put it that way
I would take game play over graphics any day.
@@AviationPlus agree, its good enough for me as gameplay is my pref too, - i still playalot of dos flight sims for such, DCS is nice but if you are not an online player its a bit soulless and lacking and too expensive for me to get the latest craft- maybe when a dynamic campaign comes it might change
The one thing dcs has over falcon bms is that you can fly multiple full fidelity planes. Instead of just reskins.
@@jackal1743 true, I guess falcon is really just about the falcon. DC's does have great content, though its pricey so I still have gotten to try much outside of fc3 bs2 and ca.
Is it possible to load saved 'mapping' to the controls ? I want to get the logitech hotas 52x pro they might have some good controls mapping already somewhere in the internet. I play falcon allied forces before and I remember there's so many controls the hard part it's to configure the keys... Thx for your quality vids it rocks.
I have heard that the alternate launcher for BMS has more setting features than the in-game settings. I would try that and see if that helps. Thanks, I appreciate the good words.
I've been thinking a bit about the DCS and BMS communities for a bit now, and watching DCS players struggle a bit in BMS here I think I'm starting to understand the differences between them.
Overall DCS is fairly new by comparison, it's very appealing visually, and it's well marketed. Additionally the way it's set up is conducive to drop in/drop out gameplay, and the mediocre documentation combined with its large (or at least loud) community results in a ton of third party guides and tutorials which make it fairly approachable. The hype, approachability, and easy-to-join public servers means a boatload of new and relatively casual players who learn just enough to get the jet off the ground and start shooting and call it good enough.
Meanwhile, by comparison, BMS is fairly old, its graphics are dated, and it's spread more or less exclusively by word of mouth. It's far harder to find and join a game, its more fleshed out AI comms make it harder to just get in the air and fly, and it punishes careless handling far more effectively by including things like hot starts and payload G restrictions. The included documentation is incredibly comprehensive though not a little impenetrable, and online guides and tutorials are fewer and further between. As a result prospective players are much less likely to jump in and stick around unless they have someone on hand to help them get their feet wet.
The end result of all this is you wind up with DCS players who can operate the sensors and employ weapons, but can't handle radio brevity, randomly pull across their flight lead's nose after attempting to refuel, or set their engine on fire during startup because they weren't monitoring the FTIT (*cough* what, me? Naaaw, I didn't do that my first time back into BMS after the VR update...). Meanwhile you've got a small but tight BMS community who take all the detailed minutiae very seriously, and can come across as a bit stuffy and elitist at times when they run into a DCS player who talks big because they don't realize just how little they really know and automatically thinks newer and prettier = better.
Overall I'd be interested to see how an organized DCS squadron's members compare with a BMS squadron's... I have a feeling group membership and a focus on teamwork and coordination would likely bridge a lot of the gaps that exist between a typical unaffiliated DCS player and the BMS community.
This is a very good observation and I agree with it. I have been in a few DCS large missions and the briefings are relatively the same talking about the plan and tactics but the mission planning portion where you set steerpoints and threat circles is completely lacking in DCS. Having to manually set ground, tower, package, and tanker frequencies in the mission editor and then having to set attack steerpoints while you are in the pit manually with lat longs It also takes forever to create a mission everything must be done manually at least in BMS you select a target and task, it will automatically give you steerpoints and frequencies.
And yes the player base and mindset are very different BMS players are not able to respawn after getting shot down, during the mission is not the time to ask that you don't know how to drop a bomb or need us to explain TACAN because someone has never used it and always had Link 16.
@@AviationPlus Oh yeah, for sure. ED definitely needs to get a wiggle on with getting the DTC implemented...
I didn't even consider the inability to respawn, that's an outstanding point! Even in an organized mission the stakes are much lower in DCS if you can just re-slot and, at worst, maybe go through a cold start and ingress one more time... Just one more reason BMS players, by necessity, really *need* to take the details seriously!
Dcs started in 1995- first su 27 and then lomac
I run a Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar and my button mapping is correct to the F-16C Block 52 mapping. Keep it the same across both BMS and DCS for starters. I'm not really seeing a lot that's different in terms of flight management between BMS 4.35 and DCS 2.7 when both are flying F-16 models of the same block. Nor should there be much difference. The differences that matter are external to the aircraft model. But, it can be argued, that if the implementation is correct and the control assignments are the same, procedurally, most flight operations will be the same. The sequence of controls to touch for either should be the same as for the real F-16 to....enter dogfight mode, manage the radar, lock a target, fire a Slammer, watch it hit or miss, etc. Or do a bombing run using CCIP or CCRP. Or anything else.
BMS 4.35 provided a huge graphics upgrade. It's actually now running a whole new graphics engine. DCS still has a slight edge on visuals, but visuals are not what a SIMULATION should be most focused on. It's about giving you a highly realistic flight experience, and this can be done in zero-zero visibility conditions, in a blackout, in a storm, at night with no moon. Visuals are secondary to the simulation.
For simulation fidelity, DCS is still trying to catch up with BMS. BMS, and every version of Falcon 4.0 and its successors to follow, have always been focused on making the simulation as authentic to the actual experience of flying the F-16 as is possible. In fact, some releases of BMS were delayed while some factors were "adjusted" as per input from certain government officials, indicating that maybe some of the simulation parameters were a bit too close to being faithfully correct to certain classified parameters relating to certain operational characteristics of the F-16.
That being said, DCS is very nice in its own right. But I wish both would be able to use open source satellite imagery for world generation. Being able to stream Google Earth imagery into the simulation would be fantastic.
You mean the flight performance got screwed down so as to hide real performance. I take a dim view to this, especially if the demands and corresponding changes aren't disclosed in brief outline. Omitting secure comms systems is not a problem, but if the game is being put through a tumble dryer of unknown alterations, even though it's based on open source information, then I may as well take up gardening. What were the nature of the changes?
does it support vr ?
BMS 4.37 does
Does bms support vr? Enjoying the rift s with dcs.
No support at the movement but I have seen videos of people getting VR to work in game but it is not officially supported.
@@AviationPlus ill get back involved - I used to play Falcon 3 over 56k dial up back in the day - loved the dynamic campaign
@@ruf01au It's still unmatch to this day
is there multiplayer on bms, like a server for random players to play in?
Yes but there is not a server list in game. You must have the IP address for the server to play. Usually when we play one of the players hosts the server and we all join in. Join Falcon Lounge Discord for access and missions to be apart of.
Which has best physics and feels more realistic while flying with joystick
Well I have not flown the real F16 but I have been able to get into an F22 sim. Fly by wire can be said to be similar between the F16 and F22 so with that being said I would say that Falcon has better flight characteristics then DCS.
BMS is the F-16 flight test data and the code from a NASA F-16 AFCS digital FBW computer that somehow got a public release both slapped together. So it's basically indistinguishable from an average pro/mil-grade F-16 simulator flight characteristics. BMS has as much or less fudging of the avionics of anything from DCS. So nothing from DCS has more accurate avionics, though the A-10C is about comparable. BMS also has smarter AI and an actual dynamic campaign. Other than the recently-added completely manual comms system that I don't like because I personally find it to be a hassle, I find BMS a lot easier to use than DCS... and easier to run at high frame rates. While it took a long time for DCS to finally get full VR support, they do finally have that. I haven't gotten back into VR, though. Probably should. I spend most of my time when I'm in DCS flying the shark, but I'm enjoying the F-14 and F-18 during the free trial thing around the holidays.
@@Reticuli Actually, that NASA data was partly wrong. It was corrected after by BMS' flight model dev based on a more accurate resource. NASA data must be for a development version and not production.
Transients that are very difficult to measure also matter, so while BMS is great, I have a doubt it is better than dedicated airforce simulators. Even if the steady state stuff is right, you need to correlate transients with operator input and data that a game-dev team like ED or BMS likely won't be able to determine.
@@ArchOfficial ED.... Hah hah hah. Don't make me laugh.
@@Reticuli Not sure what that means.
Which better between BMS and DCS?
That is the question that many ask but it is loaded and it depends on what you are wanting in a sim and what type of game play you are wanting. There are so many variables when to comes to calling one better than another. As I said it depends on what the player wants. Watch this video it goes over it a little. czcams.com/video/vv9ekwsIokQ/video.html
try both, get your OWN conclutions.
DCS = Beautiful graphics with full implemented Aircrafts in a steril, static , boring and dead world. Do u want to play? Buy Campagin DLC´s... and when you finish the campaign, you can fly in circles because you can not do anything else ...
Falcon 4.0 (BMS) = Beautiful graphics with a full implemented Aircraft in a realistic world with dynamic campaigns and a realistic feeling of being in combat.
Massive campaigns for free, many are historically accurate, others are fictitious. There is something for everyone
lol there is dynamic gameplay online. They are releasing the dynamic campaign soon... BMS is just the Viper.. I owned it when it was Falcon 4.0, then upgraded to BMS.. and a few updates. It was cool no doubt. I won't fan boy for either side but I can say that It is so narrowly focused that the only thing that changes is the objective and the narrative..
In DCS you can fly a fully developed F-18 and F-14, from the super carrier, with all it's systems and comms.. then hop over to the airfield and fly the fully developed A-10II, or Apache or Viper.. Viper isn't nearly done yet though. Then you can also fly the an assortment of other great air craft.. That is the different is you are always learning new stuff from different countries, different air frames, different missile systems etc..
Is dog fighting in BMS still just a few F-16's going head to head?
I like how far they have come in the F-16 though, they did a fantastic job taking over and upgrading it and I obviously like the mission options.. the graphics are pretty bland for 2022 though.. no VR support.. etc.. and it when DCS gets the Vulkan, Multithread update, the F-16 is finished, and the Dynamic campaign is finished there will be no reason to even keep BMS running unless you want nostalgia...
DCS vs BMS is a question of graphics, dynamic campaign, realism and overall content. DCS is old (not as old as BMS of course), but it updates its graphics from time to time and now it is looking absolutely gorgeous. If you have the good enough hardware, of course :-). It does not have a dynamic campaign but ED claims they are working on it. Realism - that is an interesting question and I think it is hard to answer. I saw a video stream with former hornet pilots saying that DCS F/A-18 sim is better in some ways than sim they used to fly in cadet school (despite it is still in beta). BMS should be realistic too. Where is more realism? I don´t know. But I think we shall see. The overall content? I think this is a big one for DCS in here while lacking dynamic campaign. Tons of planes - F14B for example is absolutely fantastic. Tons of free, custom made and paid campaigns, 3 regions to fly (excluding Normandy)... To compare these two - I think it will be best to just wait for the FULL release of F16 for DCS which might take a year or probably two and for release of the dynamic campaign. I believe there will still be people loving BMS and that´s good - the game deserves it 100%, but for me as a DCS enthusiast I can´t wait for BMS guys trying DCS F16 and I hope they will find it pretty good. Cheers!
Releasing a dynamic campaign is not enough...
You need to revamp the entire concept of briefing, mission preparation, datacard preparation, and mainy more things...
I don't see how this could be coming up that close... over even ever... People like too much the FPS side of DCS, use FC3, fire and respawn...
And ED goes where money is... thus not a full complex system of dynamic campaign...
RWR RINGS ARE NOT RELATED TO RANGE
INNER RING HIGH PRIORITY / DANGEROUS
OUTER RING LOWER PRIORITY /CAN WAIT
Thats in the a-10 not the viper
Duvanie Smart read the manual and stop writing
BULLSHIT
page 118
falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/BMS-Manual.pdf
IDIOT!
@@mlazos Calm your immature self, smartie pants.
@@Duvstep910 Same system, it's the same in the Viper as well.
@@mlazos uhhh....its an outdated version of the manual 😆 the current 4.34 version is 270 pages long not 165
are these games free ?
Falcon 4 is less than $10 but BMS is free. Thanks for watching. czcams.com/video/mXza2cBdUAE/video.html
@@AviationPlus ok thanks for info. and from where can I download BMS?
@@zubairali6863 It's in the video
@@AviationPlus which video?
@@zubairali6863 In the comment there is a link to a video
Are you using VR head set?
No I am using TrackIR
Hahaha, the question if it is easier to refuel in DCS or Falcon at the beginning is already a hint to the difference between the sims when the DCS player admits he didn't do it often enough.
Of course he didn't, why would you refuel in DCS, except you really want to or artificially push the limits of the mini-maps?
In Falcon, if you cannot hit a tanker reliably, you're basically not combat ready.
Never thought of it that way but yes there are missions when you need a tanker to get back home. I have tried in DCS and I think it is harder because it is hard to see the lights on the tanker.
a good number of the planes in DCS had refueling capability neither, plenty of cold war stuff
As someone who do AAR religiously to benchmark whenever i come back to dcs or bms, bms refueling is easier because the boom controller is someone who's happy with his job and actively try to contribute to the war effort while the one in dcs is a good for nothing waste of tax money who does the bare minimum to not get discharged. That and the lights on the tanker in dcs needs you to have a telescope to look at.
And should i mention unwarned turns? Once i was doing AAR in dcs and stayed in contact while the damn thing went defensive without saying anything. I only knew when the tanker got hit by a missile and a gigantic pile of scrap metal come crashing down on me.
@Southern Fun No, it isn't, because the only time you'll have long flights in DCS is when you artificially stretch it out by having your mission "coincidentally" take place on the other side of the map or if you use a completely asinine WP pattern (which would not be realistic in the first place). In Falcon, when you NEED to strike targets in northern North Korea, Russia or China (depends on the DYNAMIC campaign...) you won't get around this and always have authentic sorties.
@@NPC_-mf4dw I don't know why you think that. Korea is a relatively small theatre. I've been flying BMS for years, and have hundreds of videos from Falcon Online where I ran strikes in N.Kor and other theaters, and didn't need to refuel. Even in the gigantic Balkans map it's usually unnecessary.
I have lots of flights where we did refuel as well, and I enjoy doing it to enhance the realism, but it's usually a novelty. I know many capable BMS pilots that can barely get on the boom because it's mostly a non essential skill.
My computer can't handle DCS, that's why I'm trying to learn bms.
This is a good start. Check out my other videos and playlist to get you started. Thanks for watching!
This is latest BMS version? it's graphics is like DCS 10 years back.
Yup
rocketeer103 lmfao
I think the graphics look great, I prefer them over DCS.
@@MaceUK71 Same here
Falcon BMS is more realistic and closer to the real war.
DCS is more about unrealistic action shooting missiles all over the place.
A real pilot relates more to the BMS environment than DCS.
The graphics dont make a simulator. In that case Ace combat should be the best.
The military sims have average graphics but accurate flight model and realistic mission/scenario/environment.
DCS should build an engine for missions similar to Falcon 4.0 BMS.
Southern Fun DCS is not more accurate flight model. Falcon has simulated the F-16 almost perfectly. We even have real F-16 pilots flying the falcon to perfect their landings.
The DCS doesnt have the dynamic mission engine of Falcon bms.
Southern Fun in DCS you cant do even the basics like setting radio frequencies.
The IFF is too simplified.
In Falcon BMS I Keep track of frequencies, i know to whom Im talking to.
In DCS you cant even save countermeasures programs.
In Falcon you need a good preparation before the mission.
Also you have a realistic situational awareness.
@@mlazos Have you even played Dcs ? I have almost all modules and the things you say is just plain wrong. Just the a10s complexity is unreal, and the f16 is right around the corner for dcs. czcams.com/video/bdco3Sqj6LU/video.html and here you go, a little "basic radio setup on the a10, and how did i manage to contact the tanker in my harrier yesterday ? Thing i did i by you know.... fiddled with my radio so i culd.... speak with them...
jonthe1982 the Falcon BMS can do what A-10, F/A-18 and F-15 all in one in the complexity of A-10.
The online DCS servers offer nothing.
People get in F-15s, take off, shoot 12 missiles and land to rearm.
If this is realism then you live in a virtual world.
The environment of Falcon is around missions, different kind of missions lasting from 1 to many hours.
Its normal to combine GPUs/AGMS, and A2A missiles with fuel tanks, and pods.
In Falcon BMS everything is moving in time, target, enemies, threats, SAMS, etc etc.
The Falcon BMS creates a dynamic environment and depends to the difficulty level unexpected things happen just like in real world.
@Southern Fun Framing the discussion as a "pissing contest" isn't helping. Even when you're correct about something people are going to want to push back if you're turning it into "haha you lost".
I would love to get into Falcon but it is beyond on how to actually download it.
Have you ever heard of torrents..?
@@andyf104 He doesn't even need to dl the torrent. There is an alternative 2 GB zip mediafire link containing the executable.
@@kestrel16c32 Such link (that I didn't know about) would be highly appreciated if posted here...
@@andyf104 It's on the same page with the torrent file. Can't look it up rn but go to benchmark sims forums (after creating an account), then go to anouncements and follow the 4.34 link to the download website. Just grab the file and run the setup. You need a copy of Falcon 4.0 to install BMS 4.34. You can get a legitimate copy from Steam or (probably illegal) free copy online.
@@kestrel16c32 GOG.com also for Falcon 4.
falcon is cool game,more realistic than dcs!
Your background music is taking away from what you are saying. It's to loud. The music should compliment the piece not distract. Also, I forgot, nice video by the way.
I had background music? Where at I don't remember adding music in the video.
Stopped flying BMS after the new changes in the keys layout and radio setup.
Well I must say you are missing out. The IVC (radios) launch automatically. As for the keys they can always be changed.
@@AviationPlus The radios launch automatically? How so? I can't just talk to the tower, AWACs, tanker, or my wingmen anymore like I could. It seems to be manual channel changes now you have to do while before you just hit QWERT to bring them up. Is there a way to get that back?
@@Reticuli Yes the comm ladder is different and it adds a level of realism to the sim. You must read the comms manual to get a better understanding of how that ladder works. You must call ground from clearance one UHF 2 then tower 3, and departure of 4. On UHF 6 you can then talk to AWACs and that will be be your primary radio you can use for your package. If I am understanding your questions regarding using the comms with T for ATC and W for wingman. Those controls are still there.
@@AviationPlus The keyboard by itself for comms doesn't appear to work like it used to, though.
Woww😍😯
Thanks for watching.
dcs have good graphics and falcon 4 need impovment in graphics
Thanks for watching but I would take systems and gameplay than graphics. I'm not worried about graphics being chased by MiG 29s on the deck to avoid an SA-17.
DCS is actually not "relatively new", its more than 10 years...
Exactly it's half as old as BMS...so...relatively new.
@@AviationPlus even if its half old its hardly means its new. If it would be 1/10 old that would be new.
But I didn't realize your are doing BMS elitist points here, so no further questions :)
For some reason BMS only players are elitists and I don't know why when DCS is just as hard. I play and love both.
@@LazzySeal Not at all but when I get the chance I would love to get a few BMS pilots in DCS.
@@LazzySeal You must be fun at parties
To all the new babe going pilot for whom graphics is everything, remember real fighter pilot helmat have a Big Black Visor and it is not there to give you Monet sky.
Laughable...
Once the Viper lands in DCS, BMS will be like CS 1.6, the diehards still cling to it, but in reality it does nothing better, and almost everything worse than newer titles.
There is borderline nothing you can do in BMS, that you cant also do in DCS with the mission editor (in 10 minutes, with 10x the amount of content).
There is a an actual server browser, with active online servers filled with people 24/7 that you can just join, no fuzz. Add to it that DCS looks better, runs better and flies better, the only reason you'd stick with BMS is the F-16, and soon DCS will have a better version of that too.
Lmao
im sorry but
dcs
unrealistic missiles behaviour, 40% confirmed shortened parameters
shortened g tolerances
downscaled flight model due map largeness
bms
correct missile beheviour
correct g tolerance
correct flight models using real haat nasa data value
im sorry but i cannot see how dcs could do it realism-wise
Sadly the DCS F16 was taken out if the oven way too early. It also seems to have introduced a lot of lag to multiplayer servers currently.
(I didn't buy it).
To rephrase it : once the f16 lands in DCS , more and more people will fly BMS as the comparison will be eye popping indeed :) ....
@@RFXCasey They're making it right now. LMAO you're wrong. DCS is a constantly improving game. They've made 10x more improvement than Falcon has. And will continually make progress.
You should leave your other friend at home when next time you record... I don't want to hear his voice.