Get This Right or Your Orchestration Will Be Thin
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- čas přidán 7. 11. 2021
- Use resonance in orchestration to get a bigger, fuller and richer sound from the orchestra.
🎻 The 8 Orchestral Textures of George Frederick McKay | Intro to Creative Orchestration • The 8 Orchestral Textu...
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as well as Creative Orchestration by George Frederick McKay amzn.to/3yD8PHw
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#orchestration #filmscoring #composition
🎻 The 8 Orchestral Textures of George Frederick McKay | Intro to Creative Orchestration czcams.com/video/fzcZWb464xo/video.html
Ryan, this video is simply "for framing." Milled gold. Thanks once again. Chapeau !!! 🎩🎩🎩
In the old days of the theater organ, this technique was called counter melody, often done with second touch on the accompaniment manual. (Second touch played additional pipes when the key was depressed further, often done with the 4th and 5th fingers). With a theater organ, though, it wasn't possible to play counter melodies as interesting as orchestral music.
I love your videos Ryan, thanks for sharing all this musical knowledge for free!
Glad you like them!
A channel like this one is GOLD! Thank you, amazingly done!
This is the video that first introduced me to your channel. Haven't looked back since. The musical knowledge you so freely share with us is invaluable. Thank you, Ryan.
Great Video Ryan. Loved the version that had the accomp in the woodwinds and the melody on the strings with the lower strings playing the arpeggio
Thank you! This is by far the best orchestration tutorials I've watched here in YT, I've just found your channel and so far just watched 3 videos and I've already learned a lot!
Man, I just recently discovered your channel here in CZcams, and can't stop watching them.
Your content is amazing.
Loved your idea at the end. Great material and very nice presentation ✨ 👏🏻
This might be one of the best videos on orchestration on CZcams. Thank you!
Love this concept Ryan. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Chris, glad you enjoyed it!
Yes, it is also interesting to looking at filling in gaps in the upper parts of the orchestra. Sometimes, it's enough to let the overtones do the job, but on other occasions you can hear something is missing. It is also always worth considering how the individual instrument groups sound on their own. Two oboes in octaves can stick out as rough even if their are wood winds in between and a fifth on the violins taken as double stop will tend to sound like an empty fifth even if you fill the gaps with the other string instruments due to the resonance in the individual instruments.
Very useful info. Thank you so much for sharing.
Very helpful, essential information. Thank you Ryan.
Just what I needed to hear at just the right time. Thanks!
Oh! I came across this independently because I had a staccato passage with really great harmonies that just wasn't sounding full enough. That has just been a one off for me so far though, so I thank you for actually making this concrete for me. Very very good demonstration at the end!
Brilliant! Thanks!
Thank You Very Much!
🙂🙏
Brilliant work as always :3
This is awsome. Love this channel. Thanks mate
Just found your channel -- these are outstanding videos -- thanks!
This is really excellent, fun to watch, thanks 🙏
Thank you very much for the many valuable tips in your videos. They helped me a lot with my compositions 👌👍
Great advice! Thank you!!
I really appreciate these videos thank you
This is very clear and helpful ryan!! Thanks!
Ps: love the appa frame in the back!
As a complete novice, I appreciate your book recommendations. I found Goetschius' Elementary Counterpoint, which you mentioned elsewhere, and am enjoying fumbling my way through it. Thank you.
Excellent video! In the last example the orchestration seems to work better with the strings in the background and the winds on the melody.
Can you do more videos that shows the thought process of orchestrating a piano piece? I think that was really insightful. I need more examples.
This was excellent information, and now I have something new to listen for the next time I'm taking in some music.
Super Video, with a great point and good demonstration :)
Thanks very much.
This video is so good!! Thank you! And I love the Zelda ocarina of time melody ; )
Excellent Ryan thanks so much.
Glad it was helpful!
I'm discovering your channel, which could become my favorite.
Great video, simple and to the point.
Thanks!
You could also add a sustained note at the end of all the low arpeggio parts to make it even more resonant
Amazing!
Thanks for this orchestration tip.
You bet!
Excellent.
Great tip Ryan!
Thanks Mark, looking forward to hearing you put it to use!
Love you videos and the way you present orchestration and composing tips in a clear and understandable way, also I love that you actually orchestrate and demonstrate most things you teach about in your videos :-) By the way, how are you liking Dorico as of now? Saw your video on it a while back, and you seemed sceptical then after using Sibelius for so long. I just made the switch myself, writing a short piece to learn the basics, and after a minute of music I'm starting to like it more and more :-) Also been using Sibelius for a while, and need to set up some shortcuts for some functions that are not programmed in as default in Dorico, like explode and transpose, which I use all the time. But never the less, Dorico is growing on me
You're right I was skeptical, but I pushed through and kept working in it. Now that I've understood their way of thinking I've come to love it, and I've pretty much caught up to my entry speed with Sibelius, which was my biggest concern!
@@RyanLeach That's good to hear! Looking forward to my workflow in Dorico catching up to my old workflow in Sibelius :-)
Great videos, excellent channel
Great video! Thank you!
Thanks Borna, I appreciate it!
Thanks!
thank you!
Came to learn something new, but found out that I've already been doing all this for years, just didn't know the names of the techniques.(heterophonic textures, woooow), lol
Still, very nicely presented, great channel :)
This is a great. Thank you! :-D
Wauw your channel is a gem!
PS this is what we synth nerds love to do with electronics
I’d love to hear ideas like this applied to other instruments and styles, if only so that non-orchestra people (like me) can relate.
For instance, I’d have never thought about doing this with the orchestra, and I certainly wouldn’t have tried putting the accompaniment in the same family. BUT I use this exact arrangement technique in rock recordings all the time. I’d pan an overdriven guitar chugging the chords to the left, and another guitar with less of the same overdrive sound arpeggiating the chords panned to the right. But then underneath I put another guitar sustaining the same chords going through a Big Muff, which is hyper-distorted. And it sounds huge with the Big Muff, even when it’s 10 db below everything else.
Hi Ryan, I watched couple or example of the course that you have Pillars of Composition and it look GREAT I was wondering if those course will go on sale some time of the Year? Thank you for all your work.
This is great. Thanks.
Thanks for letting me know, glad you liked it!
@@RyanLeach You are welcome. I am trying to watch every video you upload.
very cool video to watch
Awesome
Another great tip...Many thanks
Very welcome, thank you!
Great stuff Ryan and beautifully explained. Love the McKay book also!!
Just found you content, love it! What program are using to notate and/or “play” the score?
Thanks! Since last summer I've been using Dorico
Great video! I feel like I go to the CZcams academy with your videos
Man! All I can say is GREAT, GREAT INFO! Beautiful excerpts. For years I've heard these sounds and you make the understanding so clear as from where they are derived. What sound libraries are you using and which application? MuseScore, Sibelius, or other?
So amazing. Please do vedios on simple orchestration for beginners.
Eg,Piano and Violin
Violin playing the Melody and Piano accompaniment
Then ,how to arrange for String Quartet.
Huh, learned something new. I'd like to think I know my way around orchestration but I had not heard this.
Listen bro.. You are awesome . I am a undergrad Music student at USC in Trinidad and Tobago. I love composition and arranging and with your explaination of these two area is super super cool.. From listening to your video where you talk about two system of writing I have composed a piano and violin duet and I must confess , I really love it .. I would like to share it with you and get some feedback on it .. That would be awesome..
Blessings
I'm amazed at how realistic your sounds are, what software do you use?
Writing in Dorico and the sound set is NotePerformer, which I absolutely love. It made writing in notation software so much more enjoyable
@@RyanLeach nice! I currently use Finale and don't get anywhere NEAR these realistic sounds even with the basic Garritan package. Thanks for letting me know! A lot of CZcamsrs don't like to tell us.
@@tabbywarrior Ha that's crazy
@@RyanLeach Quick question: are "sound set" and "soundfont" the same thing? I work in Musescore and I was curious about what could make my orchestrations potentially sound more realistic. Awesome video, too! You've earned a new subscriber!
@@Phicheee I’m sure you don’t need soundfonts now that we have the glorious musesounds of MuseScore 4
First of all, I thank you as all modern composers surely will do. As a beginner, I used to watch your videos again and again when I was stack on the orchestra.
Secondly, I want to ask about musescore... Musescore is my "mom" on music, I started composing with that, but now I feel there is a time dor change, (let's be honest, the musescore hasn't the best orchestral instruments in the world). What I am saying is that I need a suggestion, (in a logical if not free price), for a better platform to work.
Thanks for your time.
Like it! Ill be back! Thanks a lot! 🙋♂️
Back in the eighties, our old producer used to call it, sonically dense.
Amazing! Is there a reason why you wouldn't switch the moving parts of the strings vs the dissonant renaissance chordal background of the woodwinds?
Is there an importance to having the counter melody and melody consist of the same timbre? Rather than the background chords have a similar timbre as the melody and the other moving parts be a separate instrumentation?
I've always thought both strings and woodwinds make for a good underlining chordal background whether there is or is not dissonance.
I would think: the melody must stand out. It may stand out by it's timbre contrast to the underlining chords and/or the counter melody or some other moving parts.
In most cases I think it's dictated by the situation in which the theme(s) flows towards.
This is a game changer thank you
I do have a question... how well does this translate to other genres or midi?
I think it's pretty flexible. Like you could use a soft synth pad for the same effect
Excellent presentation. Very useful, thanks. However, the approach you advocate, though consistent with standard late romantic music, and still valid for much movie music, became progressively obsolete during the 20th century. Someone (Erik Satie?) once described Stravinsky's orchestration, in contrast with Debussy's, as "music without the sauce." The difference is particularly striking when we compare Mussorgsky's original scoring for Boris Godunov with Rimsky-Korsakov's more conventional rewrite, which made it more acceptable to 19th century audiences.
I'm unclear if "without the sauce" is meant as a compliment or insult? Either way I'm glad to hear it's still valid for movie music since I'm a film composer ;-)
Hey Ryan, great stuff. Was wondering what trombone samples you're using. They sound lovely 😁
Sounds great right? That's Note Performer which works seamlessly in Dorico. It made writing in notation so much more fun!
@@RyanLeach Ohh yes I have played around with the demo and I gotta say it sounds great. Thanks for that :-) Just out of curiosity, what Brass samples do you use for your mockups with a DAW? 😀
@@5ammy13 I am pretty indecisive about brass samples.. for a while I was in love with CineBrass, then I switched to Spitfire, and at the moment I’m going with Cinematic Studio Brass which I like both for the sound but also how playable it is.
@@RyanLeach that's awesome. I love Cinematic Studio Brass too, and you can't go wrong with Cinebrass when you want thay Hollywood sound. Spitfire is a little hit and miss for me... Too much inconsistency between patches. My next library on the bucket list is Aaron Venture'' Infinite Brass. Sounds great and love the flexibility of it 😁
Thank you again for the education! I’m thinking about going with Albion One software for orchestral composing. What are your thoughts on that software if any?😎
Never used Albion, sorry
@@RyanLeach thx for responding! Is there one that you would recommend for producing film & Tv music?
I use Logic, I think the two most common in LA are Logic and Cubase
What's the background song in this video from 0:12 to 0:36?
I wish to study the sicknasty groove.
Am I correctly assuming you used your own compositions in this video? I'm hearing some very interesting pieces and I'd love to add them to my listening library
Sorry no I mistakenly assumed the pieces were well known, I do not do a diligent job citing the original composers but will try to do that better in the future. The first piece is Rey's Theme from Star Wars: The Force Awakens by John Williams. The second is Scheherazade by Rimsky-Korsakov. The Ocarina of Time piece is from the Legend of Zelda game of the same name and is by Koji Kondo.
@@RyanLeach oh sorry, I forgot to specify. I meant the other pieces used in the video, like the ones used at the very beginning.
@@danielmillardmusic Oh ha that makes more sense. There's usually a mix of my stuff and tracks I pull from a stock music library. I usually need to use the library stuff because I need tracks that maintain a consistent energy and dynamic level across a long stretch of time, my own pieces tend to change too much to be useful for this context.
@@RyanLeach Ah, I see. Thanks, mate!
Is there a general rule for resonances in orchestra? For example: difference of one (or two) dynamic levels in relation to the melody (i. g.: if the main melody [foreground] is in mp, the resonance must to be in p (or pp)?
Depends on context and instruments I’d think, but one or two levels below should work most of the time
@@RyanLeach Thank you by attention.
Do you know a good music writing software? I’m composing pieces but am limited by my software and have done research but don't have experience with any. Any that have tons of sounds and have a ton of composer choices when it comes to articulation and stuff.
Personally I like Dorico for notation and Logic or Cubase for production
Are you showing us the compositional way to achieve resonance, or is there also supposed to be instruction on how to achieve resonance with a program? I see the slurs and ties, is that what you are getting at to achieve resonance? I was looking at Musescore videos and Google recommended this video, so I automatically thought maybe this had to do with use of some software.
This is resonance in the sense of how it sounds, the slurs and ties are not really specifically related. It's putting sustained chords behind moving parts
Me a jazz saxophonist, who will never play in an orchestra, much less compose for one: mmm yes, very useful✍️
5:26 how is that bass clarinet transposing? As written, with standard transposition down a M9, that would seem to be muddy. If that's transposing down a M2 (?) it makes more sense, but I would rather swap that line into a bassoon and have bass clarinet on more fundamental tones.
Concert score
@@RyanLeach Ok not accustomed to that, but now I see.
@@Qermaq It would probably be better from the composing perspective to use transposed score to keep me sharp, I think it's harder for most people to read though
@@RyanLeach My opinion? That's the best reason to use them :) I mean, if someone is only concerned with mockups sounding good and not the actual orchestra (and too often today that's all they'll use anyhow), it doesn't matter, but to truly learn orchestration one needs to think like the player, in the player's transposition. Just my three cents.
3:13 it would be better to use an ocarina
3:37 that sounded like a zelda song
2:57
In the first example (Williams), I'm surprised that the trumpets can play mp sixteenths effectively, that low. I'd expect that to sounds blatty.
I like how Alain Mayrand puts it: "dynamic markings are an attitude not a volume knob". So I take that to mean in this case that the mp is an indication to the trumpets of how their role fits into the texture.
Scorpio
That's why God invented French horns, 4 to be exact. Blend and balance better than trombones