I made a small, but potentially important oversight in the video when discussing the Questyle M15. The leather case is a $30 USD extra accessory, but if you want one FOR FREE you can buy direct from Questyle questyleshop.com/products/m15?aff=3 and use the code: YRL15PS
Hi! I have a few questions... Considering how expensive the better ones are, could they replace the need of a dac/amp for computer to drive low impendance headphones? Also... Can you use the Shanling without a battery?
Every time I've tested a portable against an equivalent desktop setup (except with Mojo 2), the desktop setup always wins because it has dedicated power, doesn't have to be miniaturized, etc. so I would say that the dongles can absolutely do it all if you need portable AND a desktop solution, but you will be sacrificing a little on the desktop side of things. As for the Shanling, you'd just set it up in powered/charging mode and it will basically act like there's no battery.
I have RU6 for 4 months now and had an opportunity to try M15 in SE with VX awhile ago (personal unit). The first thing I noticed is its power, so effortless with great dynamic and notes separation, abide a bit intimate sounding. When compares against RU6, R2R dac has edged out on layering, stage and somehow relaxing type of sound. For resolution, M15 wins by a small margin. In the end I didn't pickup M15 due to 1. No dedicated volume controls, which imo very important for iem users 2. It's too fatiguing when pair with slightly brighter iems but I can see some warmer/slower cans will benefit from M15. Just want to let you know that this channel is gold. lovely reviews with very informative infos. Definitely one of the best reviewers on YT :)
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the RU6 and M15 - both lovely devices and I agree with your impressions too. Also very glad you like the channel. Thanks for letting me know
@@PassionforSound Sorry for the stupid question but I watched the whole video and still didn't hear what I was looking for. I might have missed it but in your opinion which one of the dongles is best for pc use that's powerful enough to power only headphones. I have seen videos of some dac dongles powerful enough but they distort the sound in a way when the gain is put up. Which one is the best for headphones like my ndh 30 for monitoring voiceovers in your opinion?
Any of these would be fine for that usage, but I'd personally go for the Moonriver 2, UA5 or M15 still. The M15 has since become my favourite for music listening, but all three are excellent. If you don't need a balanced connection then I'd recommend saving some cash and going for the EarMen Eagle or E1DA 9038D
WOW, you did an amazing job comparing all these jobs with such clear detail. It leaves the user with great understanding. Thanks Lachlan. If you could, please do a UA3 and PAW S2 vs M15.
I tried both the Moonriver and UA5 and your assessment was spot on! Excellent reviews. Only thing I would add is that I think the UA5 bass response is at a more appropriate level than the Moonriver. It represents kick drums much more accurately. It also provides a better sense of space. The Moonriver is a bit too dry, congested and bass light, though does have slightly better articulation for sure.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I think the sense of dryness and articulation from the MR2 is offsetting the bass and midrange presence which is why you're hearing the bass as you are. All that is to say that I agree with your assessment and it's why the UA5 got my preference over the MR2.
@@PassionforSound Yeah for sure. Interestingly, the moonriver was initially my preference on the first headphone I tried it with because of the detail, but as I tried it across more headphones I found the UA5 to be superior.
They're a little different, but I spent a bit more time with the M15 after this comparison and the way it presents the sound is wonderful so it had probably ended up as my favourite over the UA5 in the end, but they're both excellent in their own ways
Is the M15 good through the 3.5 ouput ? I ask because I read a review where it was said to Only consider this device if you're going to use balanced output. Thanks
I covered the M15 here (although my opinion of it improved even further after the review process was over): czcams.com/video/m04-iK6Jbxo/video.htmlsi=TW-0I7Sztud-8puP I don't recall having any issues with the 3.5mm output. The balanced output might be a little different and perhaps sightly preferable, but I don't think of it as a "balanced only" device.
It's hard to go wrong from this bunch, but the M15 and UA5 are my two favourites with the UA5 just sneaking ahead because it's a better sonic match with more devices due to its smooth neutrality
I've done this in the past (can't remember which specific videos) and it's never a real competition because the dongles are always disadvantaged by their compact designs and reliance on USB power. Desktop units with separate power have always won when I've tried these tests.
One dongle that I think doesn't get much love is the CREATIVE SXFI amp and i think it's excellent for the price. When it was launched it was expensive but now can be found very cheap for what it is. Sure it isn't new, but for the new pricing I think it's a bargain. Also it can be found directly from creative as b-stock for even cheaper price. I think you sloud look into it. 😀
@@PassionforSound yes, their products are mainly directed to the gaming community. Not a big fan either. But I gave this one a try and it surprised me. For the price, and if you like a warm and lush type of sound and need quite a bit of power I think it's difficult to get any better. And it has a kind of 3d sound mode that is good for gaming and movies (not for music. for music it's better to use the standard.)
OK, this is a couple of years old, but the Moonriver 2 (standard and the TI version) is a screaming bargain in Oz compared to the Questyle and the Shanling.
Thank you very much for both the "dongle fondle's" reviews and subjective comparisons sound wise.. If i may ask, i'd be specifically interested in your opinion or subjective comparison of SE outputs of Md. Moonriver 2, S. UA5 and Q. M15 with Earmen Eagle output. From the previous video, there was a note that the E. Eagle is better than SE output of E. Sparrow. I therefore got the impression that you rate E. Eagle very highly in the SE category. As i don't need bal. output, i consider E. Eagle very seriously.. just i ask myself, if it has not been in early 2023 already surpassed soundwise in the price range
I definitely think the Eagle is very hard to go past if you don't need balanced out. When I tested the UA5, M15, etc. they all performed equally as well between SE and balanced with just slight presentation differences, but no significant drop in quality so I'd say either the M15 or UA5 would beat the Eagle (I haven't tried this and currently am not in a position too due to other pressing commitments). I don't know if the Moondrop 2 would be far enough ahead to buy that over the Eagle.
I bought a Moon River 2 to use with my android phone, but it had near constant RF interference, buzzing noises in the background. I ended up returning it, unsure if my particular unit was flawed or its design in general is. But worth mentioning either way.
Definitely! Thanks for mentioning! I didn't experience that with my unit at all, but these things can happen with a faulty cable or issue in the device itself
Here in India, the Sparrow is the most affordable of the ones on this comparo (a difference that could get a good 4.4mm cable). And the fact that you found it less edgy while not sacrificing a lot of detail, make it a bargain? Would love to hear your thoughts on how does it compare to the still more affordable s9 pro. Thanks for fondling so many of them already across 2 videos! Lachlan, to me yours are the most contextually 'correct' & relevant reviews I've found of the ton of 'em out there.
Glad you liked the review. Unfortunately, I can't get iFi gear without buying it and I promised myself a while ago to stop buying gear for reviews unless I personally really wanted / needed it. The channel still owes me some funds from the early days and doesn't make much $$$ yet.
@@PassionforSound I totally get it and you already covered more than we could ask for. Maybe a kind Ifi-owner -soul sees your comment and lends it to you 🤞🏻nevertheless keep up the good work it’s a joy to watch.
That would be annoying. It sounds to me like maybe it's pulling too much current and the phone is shutting down to protect the battery. What headphones or earphones are you using?
Actually you know what, plannars like Timeless, Zetian Wu or normal IEM like B2, recently I got Hexa(love it) or Oracle are fine...but Symphonium Meteor when I push it more to have some fun, it switches off 😊🙃.
Wow. No IEM should draw enough power to shut down the phone. Maybe try another USB cable. It seems to me that sometimes, if there's a break in the insulation, a higher volume can create enough energy in the wires to jump the gap. That could cause a problem too.
Very, very detailed review. Thanks. Can you recommend 2 or 3 DAC’s with Bluetooth so it can be used in car audio too? Just now discovered the unique Khadas Tea. I do like the balanced options like 4.4.
Glad you liked this one, Steve. Maybe check out my Fondle of the Uber Dongles next. I've also got a brand new offering from Ikko (the Heimdallr) that's looking to be a good option too, but I haven't commenced the review process yet.
@@PassionforSound Thanks. M15 really took a while to love for its effortless understatement, where other punchier and more dynamic DAC occasionally spills out distortion and shouts. Love your rev as always. Thanks for the fondle!
Honestly I'm impressed by your detailed sound reviews - quite technical yet with desirable musical impressions of the devices, thank you very much for that, I really enjoy listening to you. Moonriver 2 incredibly fits my needs, I'm looking for the most neutral/uncolored DAC/AMP to listen with my high sensitivity IEM connected to my laptop not to the phone, so the form factor is not an issue, therefore I have a question for you: my budget is around ~$200ish, is there are any sound quality benefits of choosing SMSL C200 over Moonriver 2, or extra power of desktop DAC/AMP is not crucial and Moonriver 2 is quite capable to deliver the same level of the sound quality like C200 does?
I don't know the C200 specifically, but I've always found that desktop style devices sound better than equivalent dongles because they have more space for better circuitry and separate power supplies so they're not relying on USB power which can be noisy. Glad you found the review helpful!
That does make sense, my initial concern was exactly about power delivery to the AMP, desktop units with independent power supplies are more capable comparing to USB in that regard indeed, thank you very much for your prompt and kind response.
I have heard that keeping the device volume at max and then implementing volume control on the amp (dac/amp) keeps the signal incoming to the amp at maximum quality. Any info you have on this topic? Thank you.
That can be true in some situations, but I don't actually think it applies to Bluetooth or wired dongles because the volume controls on both should be lossless and the performance of the amps inside the dongle don't tend to benefit from higher level inputs. I would always have the source volume at least up to about 50% so that the dongle isn't working too hard to amplify a tiny signal, but I've not seen or heard anything that makes me believe there's anything hard and fast that works better.
Unless you use an app like USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP), Android devices will process the sound through the main OS which degrades the quality. I don't know what it does with the sample rates, but it's definitely worth using UAPP if you can.
Yes. I can only cover what I can get my hands on easily. I'll always welcome people sending me products they want to see reviewed or supporting via Patreon so I can afford to buy additional gear for review.
Glad you liked this one. I'm not sure if I'll get the chance to review either of those, but if they do come along, I'll happily provide some impressions and comparisons
I enjoyed this content! I'm not a fan of the dangle of the dongle and I avoid plugging as little into my phone as possible. So I tend to be a BT fan with the ifi go blue or quid 5k. Still a fun episode to watch.
Hello, how do you compare shanling UP5 in sound quality with UA5 and moondriver 2? I wanted to buy ua5 but Its pricy and I found up5 at $180, I want something with 4.4mm mainly for my PC, I considered UA3 but I want better choice, thanks :)
You shouldn't ever adapt from 3.5mm to 4.4mm as you can damage the amplifier (depending on the design). It's important to only ever adapt from balanced headphones to single-ended (e.g. 4.4mm to 6.3mm, XLR to 6.3mm etc.) Basically, don't ever use a connection on the amp that your headphones aren't specifically wired for (unless it's adapting balanced to balanced like 4.4mm to 4-pin XLR)
That's a tough one because both dongles are great! I slightly prefer the M15, but the RU6 will also work well. The RU6 is going to create a larger soundstage with more depth, but it won't provide the same level of articulation and clarity so it depends on what you value more
Hi mate, Another video of yours and sorry to say another question from this newbie. If you had only 1 DAC to choose and your music preferences were the likes of Ed Sheeran & Lewis Capaldi. Would you choose the Moonshot Moonriver 2 or Cayin RU6? To drive low or semi low impedance headphones ( like Meze 99 Classics or Sennheiser HD 560s) not IEMs Only going for the quality of sound for the newbie not considering anything but sound. Which would you pick? By the way maybe a score or rating on your video reviews would help those of us who seem perplexed by your overall positive findings in many devices you mention. That would also maybe reduce the pain of receiving these seemingly pathetic newbie questions…😂 Thank you once again…..🙏🙏🙏
No problems! To start off with the scoring idea, the reason I don't do scores is because there is no way with a scoring system to differentiate price and performance. If I score a budget item a 9/10 and an expensive item 9/10, then it appears that they perform equally. If I rank the cheaper one lower because it's not able to perform to the level of expensive gear then it makes it look like it's bad when it's actually excellent for the money. See what I mean? As for your question about the donlges, both are excellent. The Moonriver 2 has a bit more crispness and attack/clarity to the sound. The RU-6 is a bit more spacious and smooth sounding so I'd choose based on which of those sounds like it would suit your tastes. (I'd personally choose the RU-6 for those headphones you mentioned, but that's just me 🙂)
@@PassionforSound Yes, I see what you mean about the scoring system ….. Thank you once again for your input regarding my question. As we all know sound like most things sensory is subjective, so I guess the conundrum the newbies faces is not actually knowing on paper what appeals. So I guess I shall just start off like walking and put one foot down. A run always starts with a walk…. Thanks again for your reply and advice. Much appreciated. 🙏👍😁
That's the only real way, I'm afraid! Once you get a sense of your preferences, the reviews will start to be more helpful because you'll know more of what you're looking for. Enjoy the journey!
Hi Lachlan, you've hit the ball out of the park again, another video with excellent productions values & content. I like the dongle form factor and it's where I want to end up in terms of HiFi laptop->dongle->headphones. With USB-C supporting 100W, I'm hoping it's only matter of time some company provides a dongle with 1-2W output into 30-40 ohms and I wouldn't mind paying upto £300. I find the M15 intriguing, is it powerful enough to drive the 37 ohm Sundaras, I use EQ. If I spent about £250 on desktop dac & amp roughly how would it compare in terms of performance to the M15?
So glad you liked the video! And I agree that the M15 is a really interesting device. After spending even more time with it during my recent vacation, I would probably bump it ahead of the UA5 now - it's a great dongle. As for the power requirements, the Sundaras need about 1.2V to reach 110dB. The M15 produces a maximum of 2.6V via the balanced output so at normal listening levels (around 75-85dB) there's plenty of headroom available for EQ adjustment and I expect they'll work together really beautifully.
That's a tough one because I don't have the Colibri here anymore, but I think the M15 is the richer and smoother sounding device. The Colibri delivers more details and clarity while still being smooth, but not as "analog". IIRC the Colibri is more expensive, it's definitely larger and it's probably the better overall device so will depend on your priorities and budget as to which is best 🙂
@@PassionforSound Went and bought a Topping E50 DAC from Amazon. I have 30 days to make my mind up. Initial thoughts are that I may well end up keeping this. Sounds smoother, can hear the backing tune more, it's playing a bigger part in the mix and the sound is less muffled...
@@PassionforSound Have you tried DAC/Amp Dongle with solid-state or tube desktop amp? Any problems? For desktop amp, is desktop DAC better choice over dongle or the same?
Desktop devices will always perform better. However, if you want just one device for portable AND desktop use, a dongle works great as a DAC feeding a separate amp when you're at your desk.
@@PassionforSound I appreciate the response, I believe you are right and I think I'll pull the trigger on it. I used to be a DAP guy but no point dropping $1500-$2000 on a DAP when it becomes obsolete within 2 years especially when dongles are becoming so great
I personally have grown to love the Questyle M15 so I'd recommend that or the Shanling UA5 if you prefer something a little more clinical (but not sterile)
I'd love to, but have no current way of getting demo units and can't afford to buy all the gear people request me to review. Any support via merchandise purchases or Patreon membership (even just $1 per month) really help make those options more possible more often
@@PassionforSound yes it did! I also checked you earmen sparrow review. Though sonically and size and shape is more appealing to me. And I found a secondhand one for $95. I’ll be putting it in my pocket next to my phone. And I dont have a 2,5 balanced cable. In the end my choice for the moon river 2 has been confirmed. Thanks sir!
@@PassionforSound finally had the money to order the moon river 2. I’ve been listening to it till 2am on my bravery’s for the past three nights. Love the sound!
Hi, as always very nice review. Which dongle would you recommend for sennheiser ie 300? Which from these but It doesn’t have to be one of these.? Considering ie 300 have good bass and lifted treble (kind a V or U shape). Tnx.
Tonally, they're quite similar. I wish I could compare them because it would be close, but I think the Mojo 1 would still win on depth of stage, but the M15 is really brilliant
I just ordered the Arya Stealth based on your review, upgrading from Sundara. I have a JDS Elements 2 on my desk but I more often listen on my sofa connecting to my ipad and that is where I use a dongle. Is their one of these dongles that you think pairs best in that scenario?
Having tested many many headphones and dongles over the years, the power requirements of most headphones are vastly overstated in most places. Whilst you might need a bit more than 10mW in some cases (depending on the FR characteristics and impedance characteristics of the headphone) my experiences align with the mathematics which says that most of these devices have more than enough power for any headphones short of something like a Susvara or Abyss 1266
@@PassionforSound sure. It's been already a few times I read that "25-30 mW" loudness threshold for 32Ohm models. I'm just sharing info with you. P.S. For comparison - my phone jack has 65mW, it can be unbearably loud. But...lucks body a bit sometimes. For the body I go for my Aune X7s pure headamp. When paired they work actually pretty decent.
Unfortunately, there's a commonly held belief that more power is required for better sound. In reality, once you have enough power that the amp is operating below a level where distortion kicks in then any gains in sound quality are due to a better amp circuit, not a more powerful one. Your phone is a great example - it gets loud enough, but doesn't sound good because it has enough power, but is a basic, cheap, all-in-one amp circuit. The X7S is a dedicated amp circuit and therefore sounds better. Hope that makes sense.
@@PassionforSound Absolutely. Lachlan, in case you need a desktop powerbank for linear PSU, I can advise you MAXOAK K2 (the size of X7s). Can be bought refurbished for 70$. I use one with X7s. Works perfect!!! No noise at all plus sound improvement. It has 2 DC ports (12V and 20V) and 4 USB ports (5V -2x1A, 2x2A). You'll gonna use it with your DACs/amps as LPSU. 50000mAh!!!
I spare no dongles from fondling! The UA5 is great. Not as good as the Mojo, but still very good. The Questyle M15 is slightly closer on general tonality and presentation to the Mojo, but both are brilliant.
After further listening (I took the M15 on holidays), the M15 is actually my clear favourite. Some will still prefer the UA5's slightly more "neutral" sound, but the overall presentation from the M15 is really something
volume control in dac like fc4 or ua5, if i used a lower volume instead mid/high volume is it really gonna impact the battery drain from my mobile more efficient or is it not? btw this is a very good battle royale..
Glad you liked the video. I've never tested battery draw at different volumes. Theoretically, lower volumes should be drawing less power, but we're talking such low levels that it's unlikely to make a big difference I think
@@PassionforSound that is so make sense, i already tested it but i never notice any diff in power draw, and i thought i tested it wrong but it is so low in power draw, silly me btw for $99 is hiby fc4 worthed? i'm eyeing this hiby fc4 and ibasso dc06 or do you have diff suggestion? my budget $100 'ish, i need a black background, natural sound with a tiny tiny bit of touch of warm sounding i'm upgrading from sonata hd pro and ifi zen air dac for my desktop
It would be cool if Khadas added a micro sd port to the Tea Pro to make it an offline music player using Khadas’ app. That would be a killer product to kill off most DAP players.
I made a small, but potentially important oversight in the video when discussing the Questyle M15. The leather case is a $30 USD extra accessory, but if you want one FOR FREE you can buy direct from Questyle questyleshop.com/products/m15?aff=3 and use the code: YRL15PS
Hi! I have a few questions... Considering how expensive the better ones are, could they replace the need of a dac/amp for computer to drive low impendance headphones?
Also... Can you use the Shanling without a battery?
Every time I've tested a portable against an equivalent desktop setup (except with Mojo 2), the desktop setup always wins because it has dedicated power, doesn't have to be miniaturized, etc. so I would say that the dongles can absolutely do it all if you need portable AND a desktop solution, but you will be sacrificing a little on the desktop side of things.
As for the Shanling, you'd just set it up in powered/charging mode and it will basically act like there's no battery.
Be careful Fondling your Dongle Fellas!! #1 rule is make sure nobody else is in the house
Made the mistake of fondling my dongle in the kitchen then falling asleep.
I have RU6 for 4 months now and had an opportunity to try M15 in SE with VX awhile ago (personal unit). The first thing I noticed is its power, so effortless with great dynamic and notes separation, abide a bit intimate sounding. When compares against RU6, R2R dac has edged out on layering, stage and somehow relaxing type of sound. For resolution, M15 wins by a small margin. In the end I didn't pickup M15 due to 1. No dedicated volume controls, which imo very important for iem users 2. It's too fatiguing when pair with slightly brighter iems but I can see some warmer/slower cans will benefit from M15.
Just want to let you know that this channel is gold. lovely reviews with very informative infos. Definitely one of the best reviewers on YT :)
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the RU6 and M15 - both lovely devices and I agree with your impressions too.
Also very glad you like the channel. Thanks for letting me know
@@PassionforSound Sorry for the stupid question but I watched the whole video and still didn't hear what I was looking for. I might have missed it but in your opinion which one of the dongles is best for pc use that's powerful enough to power only headphones. I have seen videos of some dac dongles powerful enough but they distort the sound in a way when the gain is put up. Which one is the best for headphones like my ndh 30 for monitoring voiceovers in your opinion?
Any of these would be fine for that usage, but I'd personally go for the Moonriver 2, UA5 or M15 still. The M15 has since become my favourite for music listening, but all three are excellent.
If you don't need a balanced connection then I'd recommend saving some cash and going for the EarMen Eagle or E1DA 9038D
WOW, you did an amazing job comparing all these jobs with such clear detail. It leaves the user with great understanding. Thanks Lachlan.
If you could, please do a UA3 and PAW S2 vs M15.
My pleasure! I've got the UA3 here now so that will come soonish, but I don't have any contacts for the Paw products.
Really appreciate portable dac/amp review. Difficult to find good reviews on this topic.
I'm glad I could help!
Please review ifi go bar and luxury & precission w2-131
If I can get my hands on them, I gladly will
YES!!! The Great Dongle Fondle... part 2! Been waiting for this! Thanks, Lachlan!
My pleasure! Happy fondling
Thanks for such a well thought out video and thanks double time for introducing me to Frazey Ford! Wow! What a voice and so sweet!
So glad you liked the video and discovered a new artist you like! I agree - super smooth and sweet sound.
I tried both the Moonriver and UA5 and your assessment was spot on! Excellent reviews. Only thing I would add is that I think the UA5 bass response is at a more appropriate level than the Moonriver. It represents kick drums much more accurately. It also provides a better sense of space. The Moonriver is a bit too dry, congested and bass light, though does have slightly better articulation for sure.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I think the sense of dryness and articulation from the MR2 is offsetting the bass and midrange presence which is why you're hearing the bass as you are. All that is to say that I agree with your assessment and it's why the UA5 got my preference over the MR2.
@@PassionforSound Yeah for sure. Interestingly, the moonriver was initially my preference on the first headphone I tried it with because of the detail, but as I tried it across more headphones I found the UA5 to be superior.
Glad you tried a few headphones. Synergy can be a trap sometimes!
Have you tried the M15 too?
@@PassionforSound is the M15 better than the UA5?
They're a little different, but I spent a bit more time with the M15 after this comparison and the way it presents the sound is wonderful so it had probably ended up as my favourite over the UA5 in the end, but they're both excellent in their own ways
Which of these sound the most like the Earmen Colibri?
That's a tough question - probably the Shanling UA5.
Is the M15 good through the 3.5 ouput ? I ask because I read a review where it was said to Only consider this device if you're going to use balanced output. Thanks
People will say anything. The 3.5 mm connection is just great👌🏻
I covered the M15 here (although my opinion of it improved even further after the review process was over): czcams.com/video/m04-iK6Jbxo/video.htmlsi=TW-0I7Sztud-8puP
I don't recall having any issues with the 3.5mm output. The balanced output might be a little different and perhaps sightly preferable, but I don't think of it as a "balanced only" device.
Thanks again Lachlan! These all look great. I gotta say ever since I saw the UA5 I wanted it, seems like the nicest volume control of the lot here!
It's hard to go wrong from this bunch, but the M15 and UA5 are my two favourites with the UA5 just sneaking ahead because it's a better sonic match with more devices due to its smooth neutrality
Would like to see a comparison of dongle vs a desktop dac/amp combos, not for power just for sound quality, what do you think is comparable
I've done this in the past (can't remember which specific videos) and it's never a real competition because the dongles are always disadvantaged by their compact designs and reliance on USB power. Desktop units with separate power have always won when I've tried these tests.
One dongle that I think doesn't get much love is the CREATIVE
SXFI amp and i think it's excellent for the price. When it was launched it was expensive but now can be found very cheap for what it is. Sure it isn't new, but for the new pricing I think it's a bargain. Also it can be found directly from creative as b-stock for even cheaper price. I think you sloud look into it. 😀
I'll see what opportunities arise. I've been pretty underwhelmed with Creative in the recent past
@@PassionforSound yes, their products are mainly directed to the gaming community. Not a big fan either. But I gave this one a try and it surprised me. For the price, and if you like a warm and lush type of sound and need quite a bit of power I think it's difficult to get any better. And it has a kind of 3d sound mode that is good for gaming and movies (not for music. for music it's better to use the standard.)
OK, this is a couple of years old, but the Moonriver 2 (standard and the TI version) is a screaming bargain in Oz compared to the Questyle and the Shanling.
In price, yes, but that's matched by the difference in performance too, especially with the Questyle IMO
For Tidal masters, is mqa on fc4 an advantage or ua5 and moonriver 2 would still sound better overall?
A better dongle without MQA will always do better (IMO) than a cheaper dongle with MQA
I occasionally use an Ifi Zen Dac. It runs on the usb attached to the cell phone too. Therefore my dongle is bigger than yours.
It's not the size of the dongle... 😉
@@PassionforSound its the quality of your wood... In your cans... Zmf fanboy here. Get your mind out of the gutter
Lol. Well played
Thank you very much for both the "dongle fondle's" reviews and subjective comparisons sound wise.. If i may ask, i'd be specifically interested in your opinion or subjective comparison of SE outputs of Md. Moonriver 2, S. UA5 and Q. M15 with Earmen Eagle output. From the previous video, there was a note that the E. Eagle is better than SE output of E. Sparrow. I therefore got the impression that you rate E. Eagle very highly in the SE category. As i don't need bal. output, i consider E. Eagle very seriously.. just i ask myself, if it has not been in early 2023 already surpassed soundwise in the price range
I definitely think the Eagle is very hard to go past if you don't need balanced out. When I tested the UA5, M15, etc. they all performed equally as well between SE and balanced with just slight presentation differences, but no significant drop in quality so I'd say either the M15 or UA5 would beat the Eagle (I haven't tried this and currently am not in a position too due to other pressing commitments). I don't know if the Moondrop 2 would be far enough ahead to buy that over the Eagle.
I bought a Moon River 2 to use with my android phone, but it had near constant RF interference, buzzing noises in the background. I ended up returning it, unsure if my particular unit was flawed or its design in general is. But worth mentioning either way.
Definitely! Thanks for mentioning! I didn't experience that with my unit at all, but these things can happen with a faulty cable or issue in the device itself
Here in India, the Sparrow is the most affordable of the ones on this comparo (a difference that could get a good 4.4mm cable). And the fact that you found it less edgy while not sacrificing a lot of detail, make it a bargain? Would love to hear your thoughts on how does it compare to the still more affordable s9 pro. Thanks for fondling so many of them already across 2 videos! Lachlan, to me yours are the most contextually 'correct' & relevant reviews I've found of the ton of 'em out there.
Thanks Rahul! I'm not sure if I'll get to try the S9 Pro. I'm not sure how it's tuning differs from the regular S9, but I wasn't a huge fan of that.
Would like to see your impression on the Ifi go bar. (Gold edition is sold out unfortunately). Lovely review btw.
Glad you liked the review. Unfortunately, I can't get iFi gear without buying it and I promised myself a while ago to stop buying gear for reviews unless I personally really wanted / needed it. The channel still owes me some funds from the early days and doesn't make much $$$ yet.
@@PassionforSound I totally get it and you already covered more than we could ask for. Maybe a kind Ifi-owner -soul sees your comment and lends it to you 🤞🏻nevertheless keep up the good work it’s a joy to watch.
My FC4 switches off my iPhone after certain volume is reached, don't know if there is a way to fix it...😮😊
That would be annoying. It sounds to me like maybe it's pulling too much current and the phone is shutting down to protect the battery. What headphones or earphones are you using?
Actually you know what, plannars like Timeless, Zetian Wu or normal IEM like B2, recently I got Hexa(love it) or Oracle are fine...but Symphonium Meteor when I push it more to have some fun, it switches off 😊🙃.
Wow. No IEM should draw enough power to shut down the phone. Maybe try another USB cable. It seems to me that sometimes, if there's a break in the insulation, a higher volume can create enough energy in the wires to jump the gap. That could cause a problem too.
Very, very detailed review. Thanks. Can you recommend 2 or 3 DAC’s with Bluetooth so it can be used in car audio too? Just now discovered the unique Khadas Tea. I do like the balanced options like 4.4.
Glad you liked this one, Steve. Maybe check out my Fondle of the Uber Dongles next. I've also got a brand new offering from Ikko (the Heimdallr) that's looking to be a good option too, but I haven't commenced the review process yet.
thanks for comparing the Khadas tea to the Shanling, both are unique dac amps
Glad it was informative/helpful! 🙂
Questyle M15 vs. Cayin RU6. Any prominent thoughts? I’ve only tried the M15, effortless technicality.
I haven't heard them side-by-side, but I think the RU6 might have a slight edge due to its sense of spaciousness. Both are excellent though.
@@PassionforSound Thanks. M15 really took a while to love for its effortless understatement, where other punchier and more dynamic DAC occasionally spills out distortion and shouts. Love your rev as always.
Thanks for the fondle!
Honestly I'm impressed by your detailed sound reviews - quite technical yet with desirable musical impressions of the devices, thank you very much for that, I really enjoy listening to you.
Moonriver 2 incredibly fits my needs, I'm looking for the most neutral/uncolored DAC/AMP to listen with my high sensitivity IEM connected to my laptop not to the phone, so the form factor is not an issue, therefore I have a question for you: my budget is around ~$200ish, is there are any sound quality benefits of choosing SMSL C200 over Moonriver 2, or extra power of desktop DAC/AMP is not crucial and Moonriver 2 is quite capable to deliver the same level of the sound quality like C200 does?
I don't know the C200 specifically, but I've always found that desktop style devices sound better than equivalent dongles because they have more space for better circuitry and separate power supplies so they're not relying on USB power which can be noisy.
Glad you found the review helpful!
That does make sense, my initial concern was exactly about power delivery to the AMP, desktop units with independent power supplies are more capable comparing to USB in that regard indeed, thank you very much for your prompt and kind response.
My pleasure 🙂
I have heard that keeping the device volume at max and then implementing volume control on the amp (dac/amp) keeps the signal incoming to the amp at maximum quality. Any info you have on this topic?
Thank you.
That can be true in some situations, but I don't actually think it applies to Bluetooth or wired dongles because the volume controls on both should be lossless and the performance of the amps inside the dongle don't tend to benefit from higher level inputs.
I would always have the source volume at least up to about 50% so that the dongle isn't working too hard to amplify a tiny signal, but I've not seen or heard anything that makes me believe there's anything hard and fast that works better.
@@PassionforSound Alright, and what have you to say about Android apparently resampling the audio to some specific measure?
Unless you use an app like USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP), Android devices will process the sound through the main OS which degrades the quality. I don't know what it does with the sample rates, but it's definitely worth using UAPP if you can.
Ifi go bar, Xduoo link 2 bal missing in this comparison.
Yes. I can only cover what I can get my hands on easily. I'll always welcome people sending me products they want to see reviewed or supporting via Patreon so I can afford to buy additional gear for review.
Could you please consider checking out the Violectric Chronos as some point? There are hardly any good reviews of it.
I'd love to, but don't have access to demo units and don't yet have the size/scale to buy all the gear.
@@PassionforSound Ah, gotcha. I didn't know they don't send out review units. That may explain why there are so few reviews.
Yeah, that's my guess.
Thanks for another great roundup video. I'd love to hear your take on Hidizs S9 Pro or Fiio KA3.
Glad you liked this one. I'm not sure if I'll get the chance to review either of those, but if they do come along, I'll happily provide some impressions and comparisons
Thanks!
Please fondle Colibri and GoBar and BTR 7 and compare with Sparrow and RU6
I've got reviews of the Colibri, BTR7 (Fondle of the Uber Dongle), Sparrow and RU6 all separate on the channel. That's the best I can offer for now.
I enjoyed this content! I'm not a fan of the dangle of the dongle and I avoid plugging as little into my phone as possible. So I tend to be a BT fan with the ifi go blue or quid 5k. Still a fun episode to watch.
Glad you enjoyed it despite your lack of fondness for the fondle. 😁
Hello, how do you compare shanling UP5 in sound quality with UA5 and moondriver 2? I wanted to buy ua5 but Its pricy and I found up5 at $180, I want something with 4.4mm mainly for my PC, I considered UA3 but I want better choice, thanks :)
I haven't compared the UP5 with the wired versions. You'll actually probably find that the UP5 and UA3 are on a similar level.
How do you think that ua5 compare to a topping dx1 in terms of sound? Do you know which one pairs better with moondrop variations?
I haven't tried the DX1 or the Variations so I can't say - sorry
do you think the Questyle M15 can give enough bass on the HIFIMAN Edition XS compared to a cheap desktop(HO100)?
I haven't tried the XS on that one so I'm not 100% sure, but I expect it will be fine.
Do you think Moon River 2 would be a good pairing for Shozy 1.4 and OH10?
It will definitely sound nice, but if you can stretch to the UA5 or M15, I think both will suit the treble from those IEMs better
Hi Lachlan I have a 3.5mm cable and I was wondering if the 4.4mm adapter from moon audio will work?
You shouldn't ever adapt from 3.5mm to 4.4mm as you can damage the amplifier (depending on the design). It's important to only ever adapt from balanced headphones to single-ended (e.g. 4.4mm to 6.3mm, XLR to 6.3mm etc.) Basically, don't ever use a connection on the amp that your headphones aren't specifically wired for (unless it's adapting balanced to balanced like 4.4mm to 4-pin XLR)
Love it! I like the 2Fast2Furious reference 🙂
You can thank channel patron, Aaron, for that one! 🙂
Next Fondle --> Moondrop Dawn, Ibasso DC06, Shanling UA3
I do have the UA3 (and UA1) coming. Can't recall if the Dawn is on its way or not...
For Focal Utopia, what would you best recommend?
The Questyle M15 would be magic!
For the mest mk2, out of RU6 and M15? Which do you feel is a better pairing.(feel like my mest is enough bright-wont want more treble in it).
That's a tough one because both dongles are great! I slightly prefer the M15, but the RU6 will also work well. The RU6 is going to create a larger soundstage with more depth, but it won't provide the same level of articulation and clarity so it depends on what you value more
@@PassionforSound i ended up getting the RU6. Still in the mail.. will update how it fares
Hope you love it! (Pretty sure you will) 🙂
Hi mate,
Another video of yours and sorry to say another question from this newbie.
If you had only 1 DAC to choose and your music preferences were the likes of Ed Sheeran & Lewis Capaldi. Would you choose the Moonshot Moonriver 2 or Cayin RU6? To drive low or semi low impedance headphones ( like Meze 99 Classics or Sennheiser HD 560s) not IEMs
Only going for the quality of sound for the newbie not considering anything but sound.
Which would you pick?
By the way maybe a score or rating on your video reviews would help those of us who seem perplexed by your overall positive findings in many devices you mention. That would also maybe reduce the pain of receiving these seemingly pathetic newbie questions…😂
Thank you once again…..🙏🙏🙏
No problems! To start off with the scoring idea, the reason I don't do scores is because there is no way with a scoring system to differentiate price and performance. If I score a budget item a 9/10 and an expensive item 9/10, then it appears that they perform equally. If I rank the cheaper one lower because it's not able to perform to the level of expensive gear then it makes it look like it's bad when it's actually excellent for the money. See what I mean?
As for your question about the donlges, both are excellent. The Moonriver 2 has a bit more crispness and attack/clarity to the sound. The RU-6 is a bit more spacious and smooth sounding so I'd choose based on which of those sounds like it would suit your tastes. (I'd personally choose the RU-6 for those headphones you mentioned, but that's just me 🙂)
@@PassionforSound Yes, I see what you mean about the scoring system …..
Thank you once again for your input regarding my question. As we all know sound like most things sensory is subjective, so I guess the conundrum the newbies faces is not actually knowing on paper what appeals. So I guess I shall just start off like walking and put one foot down. A run always starts with a walk…. Thanks again for your reply and advice. Much appreciated. 🙏👍😁
That's the only real way, I'm afraid! Once you get a sense of your preferences, the reviews will start to be more helpful because you'll know more of what you're looking for. Enjoy the journey!
Hi Lachlan, you've hit the ball out of the park again, another video with excellent productions values & content. I like the dongle form factor and it's where I want to end up in terms of HiFi laptop->dongle->headphones. With USB-C supporting 100W, I'm hoping it's only matter of time some company provides a dongle with 1-2W output into 30-40 ohms and I wouldn't mind paying upto £300. I find the M15 intriguing, is it powerful enough to drive the 37 ohm Sundaras, I use EQ. If I spent about £250 on desktop dac & amp roughly how would it compare in terms of performance to the M15?
So glad you liked the video! And I agree that the M15 is a really interesting device. After spending even more time with it during my recent vacation, I would probably bump it ahead of the UA5 now - it's a great dongle.
As for the power requirements, the Sundaras need about 1.2V to reach 110dB. The M15 produces a maximum of 2.6V via the balanced output so at normal listening levels (around 75-85dB) there's plenty of headroom available for EQ adjustment and I expect they'll work together really beautifully.
@@PassionforSound The elephant in the room is EarMen Colibri, out of those two which would you rate for a warmer analogue presentation?
That's a tough one because I don't have the Colibri here anymore, but I think the M15 is the richer and smoother sounding device. The Colibri delivers more details and clarity while still being smooth, but not as "analog". IIRC the Colibri is more expensive, it's definitely larger and it's probably the better overall device so will depend on your priorities and budget as to which is best 🙂
@@PassionforSound Went and bought a Topping E50 DAC from Amazon. I have 30 days to make my mind up. Initial thoughts are that I may well end up keeping this. Sounds smoother, can hear the backing tune more, it's playing a bigger part in the mix and the sound is less muffled...
The E50 is definitely great. Hope you've found the perfect DAC for your needs 🙂
Do you think that E1DA 9038D is comparable to Moondrop moon river 2 with 4.4 for sound-wise?
The 9038D is excellent, but I think the Moonriver 2 is probably still a little bit better
@@PassionforSound Have you tried DAC/Amp Dongle with solid-state or tube desktop amp? Any problems?
For desktop amp, is desktop DAC better choice over dongle or the same?
Desktop devices will always perform better. However, if you want just one device for portable AND desktop use, a dongle works great as a DAC feeding a separate amp when you're at your desk.
I wonder how the qeustyle m15 would pair with the um mest mk2? Enough power to get the most out of the quad brid?
It would be about as good as you'd get from a dongle I think. The pairing with the Thieaudio Monarch Mk2 is nothing short of wonderful
@@PassionforSound I appreciate the response, I believe you are right and I think I'll pull the trigger on it. I used to be a DAP guy but no point dropping $1500-$2000 on a DAP when it becomes obsolete within 2 years especially when dongles are becoming so great
Hope you love it!
Does moondrop river 2 have enough power to drive HD600?
Yes. No problems at all. You'll get even better sound with desktop gear, but sufficient volume won't be an issue.
What’s the best solution for 7Hz timeless?🤔
I personally have grown to love the Questyle M15 so I'd recommend that or the Shanling UA5 if you prefer something a little more clinical (but not sterile)
TL;DR best sound?
Questyle M15 or Shanling UA5
You can always use the chapter markers to jump straight to the final conclusions
@@PassionforSound I appreciate that, thank you.
Watched 20+mins but there just isn't enought hours in the day for me.
That's why the chapter markers can help by taking you straight to the final conclusions (i.e. which is best, etc.) 🙂
Thanks
Please review
Ifi go bar
Luxury and Precision W2 131
That's gonna be awesome 👍😎
I'd love to, but have no current way of getting demo units and can't afford to buy all the gear people request me to review. Any support via merchandise purchases or Patreon membership (even just $1 per month) really help make those options more possible more often
Nice!! I’m leaning towards moonriver 2, but your now that your video is up. Lets see if that changes anything for me..
The Moonriver 2 is really nice, but hopefully this video provided more context for you 🙂
@@PassionforSound yes it did! I also checked you earmen sparrow review. Though sonically and size and shape is more appealing to me. And I found a secondhand one for $95. I’ll be putting it in my pocket next to my phone. And I dont have a 2,5 balanced cable. In the end my choice for the moon river 2 has been confirmed. Thanks sir!
Fantastic! Glad I could help. Enjoy your new device!
@@PassionforSound finally had the money to order the moon river 2. I’ve been listening to it till 2am on my bravery’s for the past three nights. Love the sound!
It's a really nice dongle, isn't it?
Hi, as always very nice review. Which dongle would you recommend for sennheiser ie 300? Which from these but It doesn’t have to be one of these.? Considering ie 300 have good bass and lifted treble (kind a V or U shape). Tnx.
I generally choose slightly smoother/warmer dongles for IEMs with lifted treble so I'd go for the Hidizs XO, Shanling UA2 or UA5, or Questyle M15
From your experience, how close is the M15 to the Mojo 1 in the sound ?
Tonally, they're quite similar. I wish I could compare them because it would be close, but I think the Mojo 1 would still win on depth of stage, but the M15 is really brilliant
have you tried xduuo link2 Bal? If you had, what's the difference vs ua5? Also, what music player you're using?
I haven't tried the Link 2 Bal, only the standard version. I use USB Audio Player Pro on Android and Roon or JRiver on PC
@@PassionforSound thanks for the info!
I love a good dongle fondle
Don't we all 🤣
I just ordered the Arya Stealth based on your review, upgrading from Sundara. I have a JDS Elements 2 on my desk but I more often listen on my sofa connecting to my ipad and that is where I use a dongle. Is their one of these dongles that you think pairs best in that scenario?
That's a tough call! I think the M15 and UA5 would both work well. I've got a soft spot for the M15 so it would likely be my top choice.
Normally, Lachlan, the jack power output for everage 32Ohm headphone is 25-30mW to make it loud. From what I read. 10mW is not really...
Having tested many many headphones and dongles over the years, the power requirements of most headphones are vastly overstated in most places. Whilst you might need a bit more than 10mW in some cases (depending on the FR characteristics and impedance characteristics of the headphone) my experiences align with the mathematics which says that most of these devices have more than enough power for any headphones short of something like a Susvara or Abyss 1266
@@PassionforSound sure. It's been already a few times I read that "25-30 mW" loudness threshold for 32Ohm models. I'm just sharing info with you.
P.S. For comparison - my phone jack has 65mW, it can be unbearably loud. But...lucks body a bit sometimes. For the body I go for my Aune X7s pure headamp. When paired they work actually pretty decent.
Unfortunately, there's a commonly held belief that more power is required for better sound. In reality, once you have enough power that the amp is operating below a level where distortion kicks in then any gains in sound quality are due to a better amp circuit, not a more powerful one. Your phone is a great example - it gets loud enough, but doesn't sound good because it has enough power, but is a basic, cheap, all-in-one amp circuit. The X7S is a dedicated amp circuit and therefore sounds better. Hope that makes sense.
@@PassionforSound Absolutely. Lachlan, in case you need a desktop powerbank for linear PSU, I can advise you MAXOAK K2 (the size of X7s). Can be bought refurbished for 70$. I use one with X7s. Works perfect!!! No noise at all plus sound improvement. It has 2 DC ports (12V and 20V) and 4 USB ports (5V -2x1A, 2x2A). You'll gonna use it with your DACs/amps as LPSU. 50000mAh!!!
Great to know. Thanks for the tip!
any hiss with sensitive iems
Wow that's a lot of Dongles to Fondle , That UA5 looks like a good replacement for my MOJO1.
I spare no dongles from fondling! The UA5 is great. Not as good as the Mojo, but still very good. The Questyle M15 is slightly closer on general tonality and presentation to the Mojo, but both are brilliant.
@@PassionforSound do you prefer more UA5 or M15?
After further listening (I took the M15 on holidays), the M15 is actually my clear favourite. Some will still prefer the UA5's slightly more "neutral" sound, but the overall presentation from the M15 is really something
@@PassionforSound Do you like the M15 more than the Moon River 2?
Absolutely. Moonriver 2 is nice, but the M15 is much better IMO
the cirrus logic arent a true dac chip they are just a codec chip like what u would find in an audio interface like the scarlett
Where did you source that information and what do you mean that it's a codec chip?
LIKE!
because of using windows & android :)
My pleasure 🙂
volume control in dac like fc4 or ua5, if i used a lower volume instead mid/high volume is it really gonna impact the battery drain from my mobile more efficient or is it not?
btw this is a very good battle royale..
Glad you liked the video. I've never tested battery draw at different volumes. Theoretically, lower volumes should be drawing less power, but we're talking such low levels that it's unlikely to make a big difference I think
@@PassionforSound that is so make sense, i already tested it but i never notice any diff in power draw, and i thought i tested it wrong but it is so low in power draw, silly me
btw for $99 is hiby fc4 worthed? i'm eyeing this hiby fc4 and ibasso dc06 or do you have diff suggestion?
my budget $100 'ish, i need a black background, natural sound with a tiny tiny bit of touch of warm sounding
i'm upgrading from sonata hd pro and ifi zen air dac for my desktop
I haven't tried the dc06, but unless you need balanced output, I'd choose the E1DA 9038D for that budget (based on the devices I've tried)
@@PassionforSound is E1DA 9038D have enough power for planar to sing properly for long term usebility
Depending on the specific planar, it should. I have used it with lots of headphones with no problems at all.
Shanling UA5 definitely sounds better than Moonriver 2. In 5 seconds I can tell it sounds muddy and thin. Definitely not in the same league as UA5.
I agree that the UA5 is better (based on my preferences), but for some people and with some earphones or headphones, the MR2 will be better I expect
Just got a iFi Bar in Gold :)
Nice! I'd like to try a Go Bar if I could too
The Khadas Tea Pro will set the bar I think
Maybe. The Tea was nice and the form factor is killer, but a lift in sound quality would be welcome.
@@PassionforSound An app is coming out as well for the Khadas Tea which I’m hoping will have EQ like the Qudelix5k.
That would be very cool
It would be cool if Khadas added a micro sd port to the Tea Pro to make it an offline music player using Khadas’ app. That would be a killer product to kill off most DAP players.
Wow! That would be cool. I wonder what the demand is like now with all the streaming services though
heh heh eh heh.. you said "load"
Lol. Kids will be kids 😉