Páramo WILL fail DRASTICALLY in heavy & persistent rain. Watch before buying!
Vložit
- čas přidán 20. 07. 2024
- My passion for mountains began when I moved to the Lake District in 2003. Over the years I completed my summer mountain leader training, various courses in navigation, first aid and winter mountaineering in Glen Coe. These courses were usually through the National Mountaineering Centre at Plas Y Brenin, Snowdonia. I consolidated this training by exploring the UK mountain regions as much as I could. In 2018 I spent a short time on Swaledale Mountain Rescue team before moving back to Tyneside.
I have also completed the West Highland Way twice, the C2C walk twice, the Cumbrian Way and in 2017 did the Everest Base Camp Trek.
I by no means consider myself an expert at anything, but I do feel to be in a position to offer my humble opinion on kit and clothing, based on those years of experience.
In this video I set out on a trip to Scafell Pike with my partner. Such was the challenging conditions, I decided we head back not long after reaching the stretcher box.
In this video I inadvertently test the Paramo Alta III in driving rain and significant winds. The jacket was only a few weeks old and this is its first test in the rain. I have owned Paramo jackets in the past.
The jacket really is tested in some awful conditions and you will see the results for yourself.
I must emphasise that the moisture inside the jacket wasn’t because of an incorrect mid layer, this has been verified by Paramo. The jacket was absolutely drenched.
I contacted Paramo who watched the video and they acknowledged that their jackets are NOT waterproof. They could offer no explanation to the poor performance of the jacket and there is no need to Nikwax the jacket under these circumstances. If one understands the technology of the system, you will understand that it is actually impossible for the garments to stay dry in persistent driving rain.
They work by allowing moisture to become trapped inside the inner layers. This moisture is heated up and released to the outer layer when vaporised. This system catastrophically fails when the inner layers are becoming saturated. The only way to ensure some measure of high water resistance is to repeatedly wash it in Nikwax, but this only provides a temporary water resistance.
I love my Paramo Alta III for a few reasons, but not in heavy rain! Paramo did offer to replace the jacket but I declined, explaining that the individual jacket isn’t at fault, the system of keeping of water out is over hyped. They didn’t respond to this claim.
I filmed this video with the GoPro 10
#hikingadventures
#hiking
#hikinguk
#lakedistrict
Please see video bio for a better understanding of the Paramo technology and why the garment failed. Thank you
I have a Paramo Cascada and a Goretex jacket and I did the exact same walk with both in near identical conditions. Both kept me dry for the first hour, after 2 hours both were completely wetted out and I was starting to get damp inside, after 3 hours(the length of the walk) I was soaking inside with the Paramo (but still warm) and very damp with the Goretex (and still warm). The pattern of wetting was different with each but the 3-hour result was a marginal win for Goretex. BUT on more normal UK showery days the Paramo wins every time. It keeps typical showers out and dries very quickly. And when it's dry it breathes much better than Goretex. I don't take Paramo backpacking(too heavy) but for day hikes from October to May it's my number 1 choice. For summer(and backpacking) I still use a lightweight Goretex Paclite jacket. Oh, and the Paramo jacket just feels so much nicer and "comfy" than the Goretex options.
Great insight Alan 👍🏻
That’s exactly what I find and do
thank you for describing the differences.can't afford to buy Paramo as got Goretex similar technology jacket already - Kilpi shell jacket with Dermizax fabric for mountaineering.
I too have the Cascade....had it since 1996....It has been outstanding...Since that purchase I have bought other Paramo equipment....love all that I have purchased from this outstanding company...
@@Ed30675 Since I wrote the comment I too have bought more Paramo gear - a lightweight Quito jacket(for backpacking) and the Duology pair of fleece and wind shirt (for summer use). I do like Paramo gear but just wish it kept me dry on those rare all-day deluges.
I’ve got all the more respect for you for flagging up the failings of the jacket and knowing it was right to turn back.
🤛🏻🙏
If only more people did the MR teams wouldn't have to turn out in terrible conditions.
I have the exact same jacket which is about 4 years old. Did y garn via Llyn Idwal and the devils kitchen and it rained heavily all the way up and most of the way down. The jacket kept me dry without any leaks, which is more than I can say about the rest of our fellow walkers. Many had very expensive gortex jackets which all leaked and they were amazed that the jacket had kept me dry when others had failed. Yes, you have to maintain it by washing a re- water proofing it, but all in all I'm very happy with it.
I don't understand claims of Goretex leaking. It's completely waterproof unless damaged of contaminated. They make ocean immersion suits from it. They make dry suits out of it. It gets sweaty as hell but intact Goretex is waterproof
Last time I was out, I was in worse weather than in this video. My gore tex waterproof coat completely failed and I got cold quick. I decided to take off my wet base layer, switch to my buffalo special 6 against bare skin and see how I go.
The special 6 doesn’t claim to be waterproof but does claim to keep you warm when wet and that it did.
In weather like that, I think you’re going to get wet if you’re in it for long enough regardless of what garment you’re wearing. The important bit is being warm and comfortable when you are!
Exactly. Being warm and comfortable, even if wet, is key to staving off hypothermia
@@nickcrosby9875damp you can just about handle but wet starts to become a problem chest area mostly, wet feet wet boots is not life threatening i have walked up & back down summits with wet boots ,
Problem starts when your chest belly back shoulders start getting drenched & you no way of drying yourself, head back turn around
I'm not a fan of Goretex but my usual outfit for such conditions involves a mid layer with polartec alpha and pertex quantum face fabric. It's basically a lighter version of the buffalo and keeps me warm. I did the 3 peaks challenge in Kerry Ireland a few months ago in 7+ hours of driving rain and I was still comfortable and mostly dry.
Also found Dermizax NX and Polartec neoshell to handle downpours better than GTX Pro as they don't wet out so quickly. Neoshell has some air permeability which seems to help keep the material drier inside than GTX.
The thing that really bugs me about GTX is the company's practice of insisting any clothing company that uses their materials offers their flagship products as GTX only. This has damaged competition in the membrane market to the consumer's detriment. Having said that shakedry is great but it's so environmentally damaging, manufacturers don't use it anymore. It's also not very durable.
In France before Mount Blanc alpine climb I was running around a day before to buy a good mountaineering jacket. Most goretex were super expensive but in Technical Extreme Chamonix shop I came across brand KILPI HASTAR-M with Dermizax fabric, was advised it's a good jacket so I have it now. cost about 239 eurous. no issues at the moment.
@@kristaps2010 Bergans and Ortovox make some high performance alpine and skiing jackets using the best version of Dermizax NX. It’s excellent. More breathable than GTX Pro and it feels softer without that damn rustling noise.
Eddy great vid. I agree with almost everything you say. I have several Paramo jackets and pants and did put up with the damp because the dry quick once out of the rain. Here in Canada we get more sunshine breaks LOL.
HOWEVER. I now use Columbia OutDry. It is totally waterproof even after 4 hours of torrential rain and it breaths wonderfully. In fact on a windy day I can feel slight air blowing though it and I better have a thicker baselayer in the Fall.
The problem with Paramo is that the use-case is so narrow and the price is so high. For cold-weather day-walking in showery weather, it can't be beat. In cold, driven rain I can't bring myself to trust it - as this video shows. For multi-day hiking in varied weather it's too heavy and bulky in the pack. And for much of the year it's too warm...
After 50 years of experimenting I've figured out a system that's affordable and works fine in all conditions. I live in the Lakes and walk year round in all weathers, and this has always served me well. The key is the Brynje-style technical mesh against the skin - a greatly under-rated garment. I cap it with a light, fast-drying, zipped synthetic base layer. This keeps both sweat and rain-water off the skin, trapping a layer of insulating air. Over that, an Alpha fleece and wind shirt, if conditions dictate. And finally, a cheap mass-market rain shell, which in practice performs as well as fancy Gore-Tex shells at 10x the price. Dampness gets trapped between the wind shirt and the shell, leaving the inner layers pretty acceptable. It's cheap, light, packable and adaptable. I use it year-round. For safety in colder weather, I complete the system with a synthetic belay jacket in case I have to stop.
Great info and insights thank you 👍🏻
thanks for info, amazing, will try out. and thanks Eddy for video and
making all these valuable advices flow!
@@kristaps2010 It's surprising how much of the dampness is trapped between the wind shirt and the hard shell. The shirt prevents the dampness from soaking back into the mid-layers. I discovered this by accident, and haven't seen it suggested before, but it's a useful tip.
@@tullochgorum6323 Thanks you so much, stay safe and dry out there!
you didnt tell us what mass market rain shell brand it is. why you holding back your secret?
I think this video is the final nail in the coffin of my research into Paramo. I'll stick with My OR Foray jacket and packable storm umbrella :)
I’ve tested all types of jackets over a 30 year period and Paramo is by far the most waterproof and beats goretex (boil-in-a-bag) hands down. Nothing keeps out driving rain but Paramo holds it out for longer and dries out quicker than goretex.
Offshore sailing jackets do.
Glad to hear this, just sank £300 on this coat and was worried after watching this lol
@@steviezxr yes but your going to sweat your tits of if your walking in a sailing jacket, thay are some of the best to keep water out mind .
If you want a 100% waterproof jacket then buy yourself a US Army Gen II Ecwcs Waterproof Goretex Jacket,Rab,Montane,Berghaus,Paramo, Mountain Equipment gear don't come close,all let water in when out all day on the mountains,I've had & got them all,I have a Peter Storm jacket far more waterproof than the big branded,more expensive one's,the US Army one has been tested in hurricane's & proved to be completely waterproof throughout,I live in the Lake District & spend all my free time up in the Highlands of Scotland so my gear gets thoroughly tested & frequently,the US Military jacket is the only jacket that has NEVER,not EVER leaked in no matter how hard the rain is & how long for,it's not the lightest jacket,has pit zips plus waterproof zips etc & it's a jacket I can guarantee that will keep you bone dry 😉
@@andym2869 the issue isn’t finding a shell that will hold off the water… there’s loads of materials that will do that. I’ve a flexothane hi-viz waterproof that has never leaked in the 15 years I’ve worn it as a waterproof on my motorbike, at roadsides for breakdowns etc. the problem is that if I wore it walking on a wet day, I’d be soaking from sweat in about 10 minutes. Same with any membrane based shell, it’s a race against your own bodies sweat function.
Some people (like my Dad), “run cold”. They don’t often get really hot and sweaty from exercise, so a few hours in a hard shell jacket and they might be a little damp from sweat, whereas I’d be sweating in 20minutes and after a few hours would be so wet I might as well have not bothered with the waterproof in the first place.
There’s never going to be a perfect answer, because no one is exactly the same.
Thanks for a good honest report with a proper test. Appreciated! ATB - Steve
👍🏻👊🏻
ya.... some people just bought the jacket....go outside in 5 minutes of rain and tell you everything works great. lol
Interesting video. I've use both Gore-Tex & Paramo jackets over the years. I find the best combination for me is my Paramo Velez hybrid + Alpha Direct. Breathability & quickness of drying is what I go for in the bad weather, because your going to get wet no matter what you wear. I'd rather be comfortable when wet, and able to dry quickly. It works for me anyway. I have an athletic/Dad-bod, I run hot also. This was another reason why I ended up on this combination. I was swimming in the Gore-Tex.
I use a lightweight Dermizax jacket + Kinetic trousers for the warmer conditions. They are brilliant, so breathable(are you seeing a pattern here haha)
If you ever find yourself hiking in bad weather, with little or no wind, nothing beats a good umbrella!! ☝🏼😂
Great video! Rough weather, but, excellent explanation to start the video, well done. Great channel. That is an amazing jacket. New follower here. Crow✌️
Welcome aboard 🤛🏻
I had exactly the same experience with a brand new Paramo jacket I bought a few years back while on holiday. Fortunately I had another jacket which cost a third of the price and kept me almost completely dry in the same driving rain conditions.
Your a better man than I am Eddie Hope, last climbed Scafell it was a nice August day many moons ago. Loved that the dogs were having a blast until the injury, well done sir.
I’ve been up there 7/8 times, including full winter conditions snd that’s the worst weather I’ve experienced
Love the videos, thanks for the advice on Paramo. I will stick with Mountain Equipment for now
Ahhhh….. Lake District weather 😢 I forgot how bad that can be. Kudos to you for braving the elements and providing reality - not every hike can be on a glorious sunny day.
That was a particularly bad day 🌧️ 😅
I've had Paramo for 17 years. You have a few issues in this video. The most obvious issue is your fit. It is tight on you. You should have been in a bigger size for you.
You did the right thing mate some people put themselves at risk for a video. Aye i would expect a little better for a jacket over £300 but like you say nothing is fully waterproof great vid looking forward to a second attempt at the summit
Cheers Martin 🤛🏻
I’ve got an Alta smock and a Velez light smock and they have not let me down in 15 years. The only issue I had was in driving rain on Dartmoor where the rain came through a zip, but I think the storm flap underneath was twisted. Sorrow you had such a negative experience.
Hi Eddie, loving the new outdoor videos, I have never used a Paramo jacket as outside my price range, My Gore-Tex jackets get regular Nik wax reproofing, When the rain is severe I use a second lightweight waterproof top underneath as a second rain barrier which so far has been successful, however 40 mph wind and rain I tend to stay off the hills! Mark.
Cheers Mark 👍🏻 there’s some more info in the video bio if you get a minute
Will wait for you to do it again to get a better idea of the walk then give it a go! I’m looking forward to following in your footsteps 😊 glad you didn’t continue and I hope Lili is ok!
Yeah she’s fine Jan, poor thing
I was really surprised when I watched this review. I owned an Alta 2 and now have a Halcon, and even in heavy rain they have always kept me dry. They are so comfortable and packed with features.
Have a read of the video bio Steve. 👍🏻
Great video as usual. I love bad weather but bad gear can make it a miserable experience!!
Definitely!
I've just found this channel of yours Eddy. It's got a lot of interest for me as we have a Lodge in the lakes and I've done "OldMan" and "Helvellyn" a few years ago, but too old now to do those heights.
Where’s your lodge Kevin?
It was good to see that you don’t have to carry on if you don’t feel comfortable with the conditions, I hope the dog is ok bless her 😢 🐶
I would love it if you did guided tours like you did in Newcastle, you could state that the people in the group to be of a certain fitness and minim kit to wear, that would be amazing and you could inspire so meany people.
Great video as always pal, keep up the great work 🤜🏻
Thank you 🙏
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I've been saying the same about Paramo for over a decade now and usually I get my remarks dismissed by the Paramos fan club. My expereince isn't so dissimilar to your.
We set off from Hartsop on a rainy, sleety January morning a few years ago. I was wearing a newish pair (3 weeks) of Paramo cascade trousers, and my partner. also had a pair On top I wore a Buffalo Special 6 Shirt that was ancient, but tried, tested and trusted. An hour out, and while climbing to Dove Craig the rain turned into a deluge, and by the time we reached the wind blasted cairn on Fairfield my paramos trousers were soaked through, heavy with water and hanging down like a used nappy - not nice. Conversely, my Bufalo top was dry and snug. In fact, we had to hurriedly turn back and head down to the cottage as our legs (and bits!) were beginning to freeze.
I'd like to say it was a problem with that individual pair, but my partner's Paramo trousers sufferred the same fate. I've heard similar stories from a few others too. I know you see Mountain Rescue teams often wearing Paramo, so I suppose they must work for some people. The Paramos trousers have ever since been relegated to winter, local, dog-walking pants, and even now, after washes and treatment, they leak at the knees in even mild levels of rain. They're also relatively heavy and useless for much else. We both contacted Paramo after our expereinces and also Rathbones in Keswick, but did not get any helpful advice sadly. The rule is, in winter , Go Buffalo.
Glad you found the video useful bud 👍🏻
Great video Eddy going to head up next week .
🤛🏻
The misconception with paramo is that it works the same as gtx, it doesn't! However it does have advantages over gtx which is why i wear it. On multi day hikes once shell jackets wet out they are a nightmare to dry and are horrible to put back on in the morning climbing out of you're tent. I generally even after standing around on checkpoints all day in sideways rain in wales, Lake district and Scotland waiting for lost DofE scouts find wearing my paramos a far more pleasent experience, the speed they dry out is also amazing. When I was being loaned one pryer to purchase I was informed that if your hair or wooly hat are wet put the hood up and it'll dry in a short while as the material pulls all the moisture away
In my experience in less challenging conditions but heavy rain nonetheless Paramo do not work great with contact points e.g. rucksacks. Everywhere else water beads and gets pumped out so I have never gotten wet through like you have. This would include wind driven horizontal rain along the coast not so long ago actually. The thing about Paramo though is the comfort. As you point out their hoods are excellent - class leading in my IMHO. The fabrics are soft and supple leading to brilliant comfort. I always think what would this feel like if I got really wet? I never plan to go out walking in the rain so Paramo is a great choice with its breathability and water resistance IF I get caught in showers. The environment I walk in is also far less challenging - Hampshire! I also bike a lot and nothing beats Paramo for cold weather biking. It works a treat and without a backpack I have always stayed dry.
I think you make a very accurate point about the negative impact of contact points when wearing a rucksack. This does indeed impede the ability for the pump liner of the jacket to work as effectively.
The Paramo jackets worn by MRT are from the Pro range and unfortunately are not available to the public. The shoulders areas are double thickness outer and I suspect this helps keep more of the rain out in the vicinity of the rucksack straps. The pro jackets also have foam inserts in the back panel. These help maintain spacing between the layers of the jacket under the rucksack.
Same problem with Alta jacket , Velez and the Cascada trousers leak at knee and thigh when the two layers get forced together .I carry an emergency smock just in case
I do love my Paramo Alta II but have to agree that I do get damp when it rains a fair bit. I have the 3 season trousers that I also love and they also let the water in after a while. They are brilliant though for a mix of weather. Interestingly though the outside pockets are very waterproof as I found out the first time I wore my jacket in terrible weather up Snowdon. I had my phone in my zipped up pocket and when I checked it half way through the walk it was in a nice pool of water inside my pocket. I sent the coat back to Paramo who just re-proofed it, I expected a replacement. The clothing does cost a lot of money so was expecting it be be waterproof.
Great message Pete. 👍🏻
In my experience, the only advantage of goretex is its weight in your bag when you are not wearing it. Although Paramo is heavier, it is so comfortable that it can replace your windproof and midlayer in most cases, meaning you bring less, so it cancels out.
Wow! Very glad to be on my sofa watching you hiking. But also glad you had the wisdom to come back down. The jacket seemed great and I think in those conditions if you had continued your strip down and peeled of your skin you’d still be soaked on the inside!
Look forward to the next adventures
I think you’re right 😅
Check out the wind we get in the Alaska Aleutian island chain. Feet of rain too. I plan on testing out this gear 👍
Thanks for the honest review. I agree with your conclusion on driving rain lack of waterproofness. I put mine through the shower test and it failed. With merino bases layers you are kept warm even when wet, but in driving rain conditions I suggest wearing a 60g wind jacket or even a plastic poncho or sth on top of your Paramo. It will prevent the rain from driving through the Paramo fabric, and although it would make the whole setup less breatheable, I think body vapour can mainly escape through the neck aperture, and there will be no condensation on the inside of the Paramo as the inside will remain warm (unlike wearing a plastic or membrane over your baselayer, where the outer cold will go through the thin membrane and result in condensation on the inside of the membrane).
Great info bud 👍🏻
I have a paramo helki jacket, went up snowdon a few months ago in the harshest conditions you can think of similar to your video, did a full wash and reproof before going just incase and it performed as expected in my experience, got back to the carpark and took it off to see how it did and to my amazement my light fleece top underneath was only slightly damp which i was happy with tbh, it even outperformed 'brand' jackets of people i was with, sorry to see you didnt get the same outcome because it really is good kit.
Have heard that the Helki (?) & Cascada jackets are made of a 'heavier' fabric & that Paramo are using a 'lighter' fabric for the Alta III, thus compromising on proofability. Sounds like false economy to me.
@@jeffreyyates8518 I was under the assumption the Alta 3 was heavier and better than the helki to be honest, it's been around for a good 10 years though so could be same build quality as the old Alta 2s.
@@Jman21UK Ah, maybe it's the Halkon which has retained the heavier fabric. My deceased Alta II certainly retained it's proofness for longer than my Alta III. Used to reproof every 3 months, now have to much more frequently. One of the reasons for buying Paramo was their jackets' 'bombproof' make, but it's concerning that that status is now questionable with some of their lighter jackets. Think I'll go back to Cascada's.
@@jeffreyyates8518 I really like the look of the Alta 2. Tbh the helki is also bomb proof I only need to proof It once a year retains its proofness well. It's kept me dry in driving rain for 5hrs non stop I love it.
Sadly experienced similar - a great Pajaro jacket, fab to wear, it's so comfortable, but on the few occasions when I was out in the rain it saturated in the arms and lower front pockets and then water came in, trickles of water running down my arm inside the jacket, and puddles in the pockets. The body was fine, warm and dry, makes me wonder about quality control of the garment. The jacket didn't get much use at first, the weather was dry and warm, so just occasional use over six months, and yes it was clean, but now we have rain! Spoke to Paramo - they said treat it to a Tech Wash and TX-Direct, so done that and hopefully next downpour will see better results (very disappointed). Other jackets Swazi Tahr, a few leaks after years of use, but very warm, so only used in Winter. And my best ever purchase a Norrona Recon - a fab jacket that served me very well, many years of keeping the rain out, it has hug pit zips to let the heat out, it was still working well at 20 years old, but sadly it's now well past its best. I'm hoping that the wash and treatment of the Paramo will resolve the issues - update to follow after the next storm!
waiting for update, many thanks!
@@kristaps2010 it hasn't rained that much since I reproofed my jacket - no worries with the light rain, beading of rain has improved, but have yet to be in a downpour, will post when I do....
@@DavidWillis many thanks David. enjoy Sunday evening!
Thanks for your review Eddie, I use Paramo and like you have highlighted I have had lots of failures in the last 12 years, its usually in a situation where the wind is blowing a hooley and the rain is horizontal, I cant use other waterproofs because I'm a big lad and traditional waterproof barriers wet out with me no matter what and that can be just a big problem for me in coolish conditions where my body starts to loose heat, but for more regular rain and cold conditions the Paramo system is perfect for me, that's why I stick with it.
I have have stopped using their advisory techniques for reproofing because I came across a guy who talked about his difficulties with Paramo and he varied the reproofing a little bit differently and he talked about his experience with that when he went across Scotland, on the TGO challenge. I copied him, with strictly not a Paramo jacket but a Cioch Glamaig Jacket which under licence uses the Paramo directional material so the same really. I walked the Camino Frances in December 2019 and had 6 days of continuous strong rain, three days which were horizontal. I was nervous as hell because of my previous experience and because I did a mountain pass at 1400m where the wind and rain at the top were challenging to say the least, the directional lining in my jacket stood stood up to it and I have regained a bit of faith in the system providing that the altered reproofing has the same results again. UTB
blogpackinglight.wordpress.com/2015/06/07/tgo-challenge-2015-the-paramo-experience/
Not sure if the jacket was new or not, but I find I need two waterproofing tech washes to get water beading back onto the outer shell after the cleaning wash and to use fairly warm water as per the Nikwax instructions.
Paramo fantastic when you are active but I too have had issues with keeping dry base and mid layers in long periods of heavy rain. In the end I have moved to Paramo Windproof Duology windproof system (Fuera or Bentu smock and fleece) which copes well with light rain and showers and have lightweight Goretex Paclite shell to put on over the top if showers go to persistent rain. Have to slow down though to avoid too much condensation inside the Goretex.
👍🏻😃
I use a fuera smock with a polartec alpha hoody under and a Columbia outdry shell for persistent rain. A great combo.
Hiya Eddie great stuff mate. I’ve had quite a few jackets from arcteryx, jottnar fjallraven and Thrudark. jottnar and thrudark I would are the best you can buy. I’ve been in some horrendous conditions and I’ve been bone dry
Cheers Paul 👍🏻
Only just seen this and good review. I have an Alta jacket and love it for walking between Oct-March as it has warmth which Goretex doesn't have. Moderate driving rain it kept me dry but had some wet from perspiration.
There is another You Tube video but I cannot remember by whom, where the tester explained how the 2 systems work.
In the video he mentioned that Paramo will never mention hydrostatic head as that is irrelevant to how the system works. However, he did say if you sit on a wet rock or bench you will end up with a wet backside as the pressure prevents the Paramo directional system working.
One of the previous comments was being wet where rucksack straps went. I guess this is the same reason
Hi mate, thanks for the comment. I contacted Páramo re my experience and as you seen in the video, my whole upper video was drenched.
Páramo don’t claim that the garments are completely ‘waterproof’ and as can be seen in prolonged driving rain, even for a negligibly new jacket, it can’t cope. Páramo didn’t have an answer in our email exchange.
Páramo is what it is. It uses a system to move evaporated moisture from the inner layers but this system breaks down when saturation outweighs any evaporation process.
I love Páramo for many reasons, but keeping dry in extremely wet conditions is not one of them I’m afraid
I remember buying a paramo smock & no kidding , on the very first day I wore it it bucketed down
I was thoroughly drenched
I remember putting in a comment about it being overhyped & was told I didnt know who to wear it !
they are also not very warm so you need plenty on underneath if worn in very cold
I did like it for cycling with though , as the sleeves are long & it had a nice fit around neck with the comfortable materrial
wouldn't buy again though
Paramo not very warm? Most would disagree! Their main weakness is they are too warm for summer. They are best, in my view, in showery weather, Autumn through to Spring when their comfort and breathability allows you to wear them all day.
I have some Paramo stuff and tend to agree with your findings. In particular they are not good with rucksacks in driving rain or in contact with anything when it’s wet. When clean and proofed they can work well not touching anything, but it’s quite difficult to keep them in that state - and that goes double for their trousers. Having said all that, the clothing can be extremely durable compared to shell jackets which do seem to give up after a few years even if looked after.
👍🏻
My experience of paramo was when it first came to market. The jackets at that time were a lot heavier than they are now and perhaps that’s the issue here? I never had an issue aside from the contact points mentioned elsewhere and regularly wore the jacket on full day hikes in the lakes and wales in torrential all day rain and stayed dryer than my walking companions wearing membrane shells. I know they made the lining lighter so perhaps it’s not quite as effective now, but my Alta weighed close to a kilo, the main reason I moved away.
Hope the puppers is ok Eddy. Looking forward to more content
She’s okay now Josh 👍🏻
Hi, very interesting video, I have walked the same walk many years ago... I have used most waterproof outdoor jackets I have used Paramo Velez for all year round work, gardening and building work. I still have it, but the zipper is gone. I am looking for a Pajaro, I think this
Fit into my life style.
Talk to Paramo. I had a zip go in one of their jackets when it was six years old. They replaced it and reproofed the jacket FOC.
when you say no clothing is 100% waterproof, for those accident/emergency scenarios it's good to carry emergency foil blanket with you. I never thought about it here in UK, only took it for Switzerland trail ultramaratons and Mount Blanc alpine climb. but what you said made me think - Will always put it in my bag for upcoming winter hiking/camping.
👍🏻
I've had a similar experience in an Alta 2 in driving rain. Boots and trousers failed also. However, the problem is definitely the proofing! Paramo jackets can need re- proofing in a matter of months, depending how they are stored. They often are sent back to the factory when bought new.You should've accepted their offer to swap it, or re-proof it. My Alta 1 never failed in any conditions! Btw my friend in an ME Llotse was dry. He also wore 2 pairs of waterproof trousers!
I love this debate and suspect there is no right answer for everyone. I'm on the Scottish hills every weekend and run hot so Goretex wets out on me in heavy rain - usually after 2 or 3 hours of constant deluge in the lighter jackets and after 4 or 5 hours with the 'bomber' hard shells. The only two things that I have found to work is to take a second jacket (and ideally base/mid-layer) or hike fast enough to keep warm (though this means you can't stop for more than a couple of minutes at a time before you get cold). Don't think I would trust Paramo for a 10 to 14 hour day in the Cairngorms but I could be wrong! I'll keep searching for that elusive perfect jacket 🙂
I live in the Peak District and ride motorcycles for over 50 years never had anything goretex that hasn’t leaked. I have a paramo valez must be nearly 20 years old washed and proofed very rarely and used every day for 8 months of the year, I can only remember rain coming in once.
I've got the same jacket, live in the Scottish Highlands and have used that jacket for winter mountaineering for years and it's been fine. Yours looks to be wetting out quite a bit, would suggest tech and TX wash and I'm sure it'll be fine. I have to do mine quite a bit to retain proper proofing to be fair.
Paramo is excellent for winter mountaineering conditions. I discussed the results with Paramo and they acknowledge that their garments aren’t waterproof. The technology works by trapping posture in the inner layers and when it warms up, escapes as vapour through the outer layer. This system fails in saturating conditions as water can’t be pumped out fast enough and so the jacket becomes saturated. Washing in Nikwax only adds a temporary water resistant membrane.
It’s also worth remembering that the fabric needs to move. In those places where it is held in place, such as the straps of the rucksack , or a harness, the material is clearly wetter than the parts of the jacket that move freely. For me it’s either Paramo or the layering system. With layering you get soaked with sweat so you’re always going to be wet in those conditions whatever system you choose
Please see video bio 👍🏻
Good stuff.
Eddy I have had a similar experience with my Paramo jacket which cos me nearly £500. Not only had it failed in very wet, not wet out conditions but the cuffs fail year after year. Their customer service has to be seen to be believed unfortunately as they failed to understand my complaint with the cuffs until my jacket landed at their repair shop. They stay that the velcro around the cuffs are designed to fail and come away as they get so much use and can be repaired albeit by then for a charge... Funny that... I use my local stitchers with less air miles!!! Sadly I will never recommend a Paramo jacket no matter how many people have had there's "for over 20 years"??!! I firmly believe that the modern fabrics used for eco reasons have had a detrimental effect of sustaining a proper weather proof barrier but it has to be said no breathable jacket is watertight. love the channel.
Great info Steve. 👍🏻 I’ve added more info in the video bio if you get a minute
I've lost count of the amount of waterproof gear I've returned , usually canvas waterproof /Goretex walking shoes.
As we know , if the item bought is not fit for purpose, i.e., letting in water, when it is sold as waterproof as long as you return it within 30 days , you are entitled to a full refund
Great channel, Eddie . Have you thought about having a hike on the isle of wight?
I'm lucky enough to have the highest point on my doorstep.
I love paramo gear.. Then again I love my old school berghaus Mera Peak jackets thar are still absolutely rock solid in heavy rain....
10 hours in torrential rain in the Lake district on the coast to coast, my Paramo Aspira kept me more comfortable and warmer than my compatriots in shell jackets. I love mine.
Thanks, that is my worry.
They work with body heat.
If you aren’t generating sufficient they will stay damp and you will get cold.
My preference is for something with a smooth non absorbant surface like Shakedry.
The only true waterproof is a PVC jacket. But of course then you get condensation.
Hi Mark, please see the video bio where I’ve articulated a bit more thoroughly 👍🏻
It doesn't work with body heat, it's hydrophobic. It relies on the water being liquid so its surface tension pulls it along the fibres to where they are less densely packed i.e. the outside.
I've worn been out in far worse conditions than that, where standing up is impossible & the rain has been going upwards. You will get wet because the water runs along surfaces., as you can see in the vid where it got through the arm vents.
Membranes work on heat. If it's too cold on the inside of them the water stays liquid & won't pass through. I'd sooner be wearing paramo (or buffalo, or similar) in those sort of conditions.
Shakedry is no good if you are carrying a backpack it will quickly wear the material out.
Great video Eddy. I can honestly say when I worked in Scotland and Wales (for 10 years) and out on the hills most days, in the conditions you were in there are few if any waterproofs that would have kept you dry, either from rain or from sweat. As you know the important thing is layering your cloths and keeping warm, even when wet, and using materials that dry quickly when the rain eventually stops. Hope the dog is better, great to see them in the vids again.
I agree. I’d expect a better performance though from a virtually new jacket and from how they market it
@@Eddy-Hope In my many years I have lost count of the number of incredible new materials have been marketed for outdoor clothing. You are right though, brand new you would expect better results, it’s great we have you testing stuff and saving us disappointment and money 👍
@@iananderson2677 🤛🏻
It doesn't fail, it's designed to get wet so the inner liner starts to wick moisture away if you keep moving. Yes, you will get moist, but you will stay warm and the jacket will eventually dry. I've worn Paramo doing the Cullin ridge traverse, A' Mhaighdean, Aonach Eagach and Mt St. Elias in America, and it's worked as intended during gale-force winds, tropical torrential downpours, blizzards etc. and never failed. The one thing that's an absolute must with Paramo though is the correct sizing, too tight, or if you're wearing with a pack, and it''ll impact the breath-ability around the back/shoulder area, and that means the liner won't wick effectively. That could be happening here.
See video bio
Although water vapour will move trough readily, it's liquid water that moves through the inner layer due to it being denser on the inside than the outside due to different hair lengths ( and all important waxy coating ).
However, though it's a great sales pitch, in my experience ( as yours ) it's a load of crap.
The big trouble is, if you're using it in warm weather or doing a high tempo activity in cool weather you most likely are just wearing a base layer underneath the Paramo and if it soaks through the inner 'Pump' ( reverse fleece ) liner that was keeping you warm will be soaked with water and you could end up in a very cold, wet, potentially hypothermic condition.
It does work,. I have salopettes I use for skiing and if snow gets inside it will melt and move through. But they are heavy, cumbersome and not much cop with rain and take a long time to dry. A lightweight Buffalo or RAB VR with Gore-Tex if needed will do a far better job.
Great message Dave 👍🏻
I’ve got a bomb proof siamidis foul weather goretex jacket from the navy. That and the smock I got are utterly amazing jackets. The smock is not waterproof, but it’s amazingly warm and practical and fits so well and holds the water out fairly well for a time. As for the siamidis, nothing is truly waterproof but this thing has never let me get the least bit damp. Bone dry.
I'm one of those nutters that walks up the wildest upland areas (with no paths) to fly fish remote mountain lakes. Tried everything over the years. I need to travel lightish but be safe. Most things will and can fail. Buffalo are good but heavy and overly warm on the move so only for winter hiking. They do a wind shirt but its not that good. They are honest however in saying they are not waterproof and work differently.
So...can't go into the full length of what I've tried but can say what I've ended up with for spring-summer-autumn in Scotland which can turn nasty in a flash. I use a Paramo wind smock with good underlayers such as Montane Primano. I have a superb Alpkit fleece I can put on under the wind smock if its cold. Then I have a Haglof lightweight goretex to put over the smock if its really wet. Legs I wear Montane Terra trousers and have Berghaus over trousers if nasty.
Depending on how long, how far or how many days I am going to be out, alters what I put in my back pack. Can resort to buffalo or ridgeline stuff or heavier goretex (I have a Berghaus goretex that surprisingly has lasted quite a long time and still pretty dry).
Great message Matt 🤛🏻
I was thinking of buying a paramo velez adventure smok, or the keela munro jacket for winter fell walking, what would you say is the best choice,im told both products are used by mountain rescue teams
Seems like it's more of a modern take on waxed g-1000, being water resistant and quick drying, rather than waterproof. I can definitely see a use for that. But if that's the case why is it compared to gore-tex?
Paramo relies on regular cleaning and using tx direct unlike a hard shell. As a result never let me down in very challenging conditions. Far better breathabilty than Goretex in my opinion plus you don’t have to worry about delaminating taped seams when cleaning/reproofing. I clean and reproof every 6 months roughly
The jacket was new and Pàramo when contacted couldn’t provide a suitable explanation
@@Eddy-Hopehad you tested under a sink before heading into the wild?
No matter how waterproof your jacket is it has one thing in common with the cheapest jacket, holes! A hole for your head, a hole for your lower torso and two holes for your wrist, they all leak. Driving rain will find its way in no matter what.
Good effort eddy ..like you said never be afraid to turn back we did on sharp edge once always safety first ...like the honest opinion about expensive piece of clothing ...hope your dog is ok ...ATB Andrew 👍⛰️
Cheers bud. Yeah she’s fine now thank you
Great video, never had paramo but have few gore tex all have leaked in really bad weather yet best iv had on long very wet walks (not hill hikes) is a 10 year old Barbour wax jacket that is re waxed each year and they can get clammy but never let water in in my experience.
Thanks for sharing Richard 👍🏻
Great video. Out of interest what was the rest of the clothing gloves, trousers and boots) and did it prevent water ingress?
I'm very impressed with the route graphics, is that something that you created? If so which software did you use and is it easy to use?
Cheers John although I’d say it’s a poorly made video from my early days. And the audio failed me too.
I think it was from OutdoorActive mapping software 👍🏻
Thanks for the honest opinions, i dont think im brave though going up in January i wait til spring usually.
😅 I love the extremes and I’ll be camping in the snow soon 😆
I'm finally walking Eddie. Not as far as you. We've got a dog and I'm determined after my mental health has been suffering. Hopefully I get there!
It’ll do you the world of good Owen 👍🏻
I got two paramo anthology jackets out of a skip. I wear them at lambing time. The best waterproof coats I've ever had. Don't let water in and don't fill with condensation.
Your bag is what's the problem.
Looks like you needed a deep sea divers suit out there never mind a coat.
Nice vlog btw 👍
Still have one of the early Paramo jackets from the mid 90s. It is still going strong, but I don’t see that qualoty in the new ones!
4:13 ... up Great Gable ... do you mean Great End?
That apart, I've usually worn Paramo (Pajara or Alta III jackets) . On a number of occasions, I have been wet inside the jacket, including in horizontal Welsh rain. However it DID keep me warm enough even in its wet state. Rather than use the jacket for hiking/trekking (where heat is continuously generated), I often end up standing still for photography (and not generating enough heat to make the Paramo Analogy fabric work). For those times, I layer with a synthetic fleece to avoid undue chill and have always been "sufficiently warm" though maybe a bit damp.
No, Great Gable William 👍🏻
Hi Eddy, really helpful video, ive started to get into hiking and looking at buying my first decent jacket for Autumn / Winter hiking. I'm looking at Paramo and the ME Lhotse as my options at the moment. How do you find the Lhotse in comparison? Has it been tested like this one yet? I tend to run hot an sweaty myself when hiking, so don't tend to wear many layers but didnt want to get all condensation inside the Lhotse. Thanks in advance!
I love the Lhotse Peter and much better than Paramo although nothing is waterproof
Never had a issue with paramo. Worn them in all weathers. Absolutely top rate kit.
The video evidences very poor performance in driving rain. This was a negligibly new jacket. Pàramo were unable to offer an explanation and declined to offer evidence that their jackets could withstand these types of conditions.
They accepted that their jackets are not ‘waterproof’ 👍🏻
@@Eddy-Hope Have used Paramo Clothing since mid nineties in most parts of UK and abroad, Backpacking, Scottish winter climbing, Alpine Climbing - summer and winter, Pulk pulling in Artic circle etc and have never been let down by their waterproofs. In saying that stood still in cold heavy rain one would be better off possibly in a Goretex jacket this is where Paramo struggles. Any jacket that starts to wet out because the DWR finish has worn away will become a problem. I use to be in the Outdoor Industry selling Paramo clothing and once in a blue moon a jacket etc would not have taken the TXi proofer into the fabric from the factory because of some contaminate in the fabric, it looked like your jacket was not beading correctly hence poor performance, have seen many Goretex jacket that have leaked in a short time of ownership as well, also retreating a paramo or even Gortex I have seen customers wash and retreat the garments too often with the TXi proofer building up and attracting dirt into the fibre of fabric and this effecting the performance. Paramo does offer to the wearer the feel of a soft shell and will take heavy rain whilst moderately moving so as a combination has its place, but stood still then Goretex offers more protection. On the other hand I personally would not use Goretex below -20 Celsius as breathability to me is compromised and also in very high humidity, but like you stated there is not one outer garment that works best in all conditions.
I have two paramo jackets. I use it for bikepacking, so no backpack. I was in some real bad weather that rained for 3 days and heavy winds. Kept me dry. I found that when you buy a new paramo jacket you still need to give it a wash in nikwax TX direct before you wear it for the first time. This seems to solve the new Jacket issue, did you do this before you wore it for the first time?
I know it should work straight out the shop but I would recommend a Nikwax TX direct before first use
Hi mate. I discussed this with Páramo and they didn’t recommend this. The garments have been fully treated to manufacturers specifications when sold new.
Understanding fully now how the system works, being drenched is inevitable, as the vapour circulation system can’t cope with prologued downpours. The vapour inside the layers become saturated from the inside, preventing vapourisation
@@Eddy-Hope Ok. Not sure what the issue is. I’ve got the valez light smock and the jacket. Use the jacket for bikepacking in the colder months. I’ve always DWR’d them on buying. I’ve had some really wet rides in them on remote tracks.
Funny how I’ve not got wet through, maybe it’s the heat I’m generating by cycling, I normally only wear a merino wool base layer underneath and I’m not wearing a backpack.
I would like to see some real independent testing on the garments or someone on your tube to do some detailed analysis of the product in wet conditions to be able to give some more robust conclusions.
Sorry you have had a bad time with the product. The hard shell I use in warmer months as a just in case waterproof to make my gear lighter is a Haglofs LIM waterproof. This works well as well.
🙂👍
@@bikepackingadventure7913it probably is the heat that you generate, I run very hot and I swear by Paramo whereas every goretex garment I've had has been a nightmare for me. I suppose with us all being different, different solutions work for different people. It's probably why online reviews aren't all that useful.
Unfortunately the best for insane rain will always be wax jackets but with the weight it's never practical. So only other way like with tents is to double layer the hard shell.
You will be soaked regardless. Your body produces sweat that does not escape.
Paramo wins hands down in this type of weather, I have used both the Paramo Halcon Jacket, Arc’teryx Beta AR and H H Odin 1 World Infinity Shell, the Paramo is the only jacket that didn’t par boil me in my own sweat. I think it has to be the best of both worlds but for me I’d rather be slightly damp than soaked and stinky. Horses for courses. Guess.
I used to sell paramo and it is great stuff mountain rescue use it it needs to be kept maintained I would re wash in Nik wax and tech wash you also need to be wearing the correct base layers I noticed you were wearing a light fleece that will stop the system working as effective they do a mid layer which I would recommend as it allows that one way transfer of moisture you mentioned
It’s almost new. As I said at the end, I was drenched due to a saturated jacket through rain. It wasn’t sweat that couldn’t escape because of an incorrect mid layer.
This is clearly a hyped up garment that doesn’t perform well in driving rain when it’s unable to recycle the rain and moisture quick enough
@@Eddy-Hope take it back show then the video they will do something about it it really does work I have no affiliation to them now but have used there kit for probably twenty years with no issues
@@grandadsallotmentgarden8295 that’s a good idea. That’s the first time it has been in the mountains and I was absolutely drenched.
I was desperately hoping it was going to be a great piece of kit too. I can imagine it’s a great piece of kit in full winter conditions, just not driving rain 🤷🏻♂️👍🏻
I have two paramo jackets. I use it for bikepacking, so no backpack. I was in some real bad weather that rained for 3 days and heavy winds. Kept me dry. I found that when you buy a new paramo jacket you still need to give it a wash in nikwax TX direct before you wear it for the first time. This seems to solve the new Jacket issue, did you do this before you wore it for the first time?
I know it should work straight out the shop but I would recommend a Nikwax TX direct before first use
My experience of Paramo: Some years ago on a night nav ex I fell into a beck, went in up to my neck. I was wearing a Paramo jacket and trousers. I was helped out of the water by my very amused companions and stood there dripping water and shivering like mad. But in a few minutes I was warm again and although my boots (Goretex) were squelching like mad I carried on and we completed the exercise. After about an hour my jacket and trousers were almost dry. Had to wear different (dry) boots next day but the jacket and trousers were ok. I am very happy to wear Paramo in the worst conditions. and even in winter I just wear a base layer under the jacket. If I start to feel cold I pop a gilet over the top as extra insulation.
I did the West Highland Way wearing a bin bag. That was waterproof. 😉
Aye, but it’ll make you sweat a lot 😅
A very fair report, and sine further balkanced commetary about the probable reasons for the failure in the bio.
👊🏻👍🏻
If I remember correctly if it works via body heat so ( I could be making a balls of this ) if you’re a person who runs hot naturally it should keep you dry, if you tend to be a cold body I’m guessing rain will get in. I’m always cold and that’s what’s kept me from trying one
Good honest video. Thanks. Paramo is overhyped and overrated for sure and underperforms. Goretex has never let me down in the same conditions you were in and all day long. Back at the car totally dry. I’d never waste my money on Paramo.
My wife and I have had our Paramo Velez & Alta III jackets and Paramo trousers over 6 years. NEVER a leak even in 50mph gusts & driving rain for 3 hours solid on top of the Langdales. Can't fault them. Wouldn't buy anything else.
See video bio 👍🏻
I still find Paramo the most comfortable shell to wear and, unlike some comments here, I find it comfortable temperature-wise for a large part of the year (based Scottish Highlands). I did have a similar problem with the water proofing collapsing on my during the TGO Challenge a couple of years ago. It was just a day of heavy, persistent rain. The main problem was where the jacket was pressed to my body the the rucksack and straps. I think I agree with @GeekfromYorkshire's comment below; loose fits suit Paramo better.
Oh I agree. I love my Paramo jacket for lots of reasons, especially in winter conditions. It’s just not great in the rain…
See video bio for further information 👍🏻
If you team it with their fleece you get damp but warm and slowly dry. When gortex fails it just pisses through. But when your paramo jacket fails it keep deflecting water and the warmer you get I've found myself dry again, well damp still. Worth considering anyway
Hi Kevin, I’m not sure if you watched the video but I was drenched to the skin. An inner fleece would have been drenched and would have taken a very long time to dry out.
If I got myself into difficulties with an injury, these circumstances can become very quickly life threatening.
I contacted Pàramo who couldn’t provide an adequate explanation. They certainly didn’t suggest an inner fleece would have helped.
I love my Pàramo jacket for a few reasons but they are not designed to be taken out in severe precipitation like this and Pàramo acknowledge that they don’t advertise their garments as ‘waterproof’.
They do advertise their jackets as waterproof. Just checked their website.
I agree there great jackets but in heavy rain they fail badly , where as my Berghaus goretex never lets me down , honest video subscribed
👊🏻👍🏻
I’ve got a Rab coat and was caught in some pretty heavy downpour the other week walking the dog but I have to admit the hoodie bar the hood which was exposed I had underneath was bone dry. Had it for a long time now
I gave a few Rab garments 👍🏻
I've been in horrendous rain in Germany with Paramo tops and bottoms for hours and not a bit wet, but.....
I let my pants sit, unused for a year and they were maybe 10% waterproof. Didn't test before riding.
I've also reproofed my Velez smock without first cleansing the wash machine once or twice and achieved maybe 85% waterproof.
When everything is done right...pristine wash machine, no more than two garments at a time, and 45 minutes or so tumble dry afterward...I would say there is nothing left to be desired. it feels like being indoors and watching it rain outside...no matter how instense it is raining...
that being said... i test pretty often by putting the sink on full blast and picking random spots of the garment. if it wets out even a tiny bit..reproof.
best of luck to everyone
Weather looked horrendous Eddie... just how i like it 😁
😀
Did you ever find anything better? In driving rain, even my Goretex pro jackets will be drenched after 20 minutes. My current solution is a non breathable jacket over layer for when its that wet. The main waterproof layer can kind of breathe into the middle layer.
I now have the ME Lhotse three layer Goretex jacket. Far better ‘waterproof’ system in my opinion, but not as comfortable to wear.
Nothing is entirely waterproof in terms on jackets or trousers. I do love my Paramo jacket for a few reasons. But in driving rain, I’d wear my Lhotse over a Paramo garment 👍🏻
What about trying NON BREATHABLE jacket with Paramo under it - only in serious downpours. You'll get wet from inside because of sweat but paramo jacket will keep you warm? But paramo jacket can be replaced by merino wool layers or similar...
In my opinion, excessive sweating that can’t ultimately evaporate into the atmosphere is not an ideal situation either. All garments under the non breathable layer will become wet, from the inside. And of course, if this system was as simple as that, all professional outdoor individuals would adopt this idea.
There is of course an argument for a non breathable outer layer, like a poncho, but there are huge ventilation areas to allow circulation.
Everything of course is a balance, depending on the activity 👍🏻
I've always found the same with Paramo.
20 years ago the brand was not labelled as waterproof (I still have and use some of the older gear) I feel it was a dangerous mistake to rebrand as waterproof, it's simply not.
I do however like using Paramo and for the most part it does work and avoids a lot of having to add or remove layers depending on conditions, but if I know it's going to be really wet I stick with Goretex.
Paramo themselves though will never acknowledge this and insist that the garment would just need reproofing - even when the fail occurs on a brand new garment. They'll offer to test it and reproof it or sometimes replace it.
I feel it should be labelled as rain proof, as that is what they actually test for. When you start adding pressure from rucksack straps, movement against equipment/clothing or vegetation and or high winds - it fails every time.
Even if it does need reproofing finding that out on the hill in such conditions is not the time you want to make such a discovery, it may pass a test at home under a tap/shower but fail outdoors. So to me it's not trustworthy and you need to assess possible conditions before heading out.
The other situation that Paramo fails in is multi day when you are not able to keep it clean, mud especially causes it to fail pretty quick.
Please update us if you contact Paramo and what they say, I've yet to hear anything different from them - I used to sell the stuff too.
Great message Will and well put. I’m in communication with Paramo now snd I’ll do an update video 👍🏻
@@Eddy-Hope any update on this?
@@willadams6217 hi Will. Yes. Over a couple of emails they basically said that this ‘shouldn’t have happened’, with a new garment.
They offered a replacement to which I declined, stating that the jacket was negligibly new and there was nothing wrong with it. On principle I’m keeping it and I explained that what ‘wasn’t right’, was Páramo’s understanding of how their garments work in these types of conditions.
I said there were a few reasons why I would recommend this jacket to would be customers, but not to keep you dry in persistent rain. They didn’t respond 🤷🏻♂️
@@Eddy-Hope thanks for the update. Yeah sounds a very familiar story to me. I love using Paramo and it's great in most conditions. What isn't great is their claims and the gaslighting of their customers who pick up on it. I've had on off debates with them for many years about it, both professionally and as a customer. They won't back track to unbrand it as waterproof sadly.
@@willadams6217 I read with interest your comment regarding Paramo's claim about being waterproof, l have no experience with Paramo products but l do wear Barbour thornproofs a lot and whilst people believe they are waterproof they aren't, they are water resistant until the wax coating wears off and then after reproofing they will again repel water, much the same it seems to Paramo products. My Barbour Durham has a double layer on the shoulders so you can reproof the underside and this makes it extremely resistant to rain EVER getting through but you can end up with a waxy residue on your hands. Of the modern choices l wear Goretex as they have yet to leak.
I have to work in this shit every day in The Lake District, and inevitably at this time of year I start looking at jackets again because my waterproof jacket from the previous season is failing or failed. In the last 9 years I have had (I’ll try and get them in order…) a Marmot Precip (rubbish) Mountain Hardware Dry q (best jacket I have ever had for waterproofness but zip bust on it fairly quickly), Berghaus Arran (not bad for the price, got nearly two seasons out of it) Berghaus Highlander Goretex (unbelievably good for 9 months, has just started to fail but I only paid £60 for it at Gaynors. Should have bought every jacket on the rail for that price), SIP forestry jacket (complete rubbish. Biggest waste of money I’ve ever spent on a jacket) Montane Extreme smock (great jacket, love it but arms wet out and far too hot to work in most of the time) Paramo Alta. Now, the interesting thing about the paramo is I know that it will give me the same level of performance for a number of years. It does wet out around the arms, but always keeps my core dry and warm. I’m not totally in love with it, especially the price I paid for it, but it’s the one that I keep close by. It’s especially good for variable days with odd heavy showers, but for this weather we’ve been having recently with full days of nothing but wind and rain, I want just a little bit more protection. Been looking at a ridgeline smock with I think I’ll probably get and be looking to replace in 12 months when it inevitably fails and I’m out with the paramo again…
I should add that I absolutely batter my jackets as I work tree planting, so this time of year my jackets are normally covered in mud and pretty constantly wet (then left in a van to dry overnight). I’ll have had other jackets but none are coming to mind at the moment but 12 months is about the norm before they fail.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
Yes it’s Paramo for me every time. Never let me down and loved it’s design, fabric and feel .
I've had a couple of Paramo smocks & jackets. I've always regarded them as having maybe 85% of the waterproof capabilities of say a Goretex hard shell but also have maybe 85% of the breathability of a soft shell jacket. Personally I don't consider them as being 100% waterproof. Then again, under the horrendous conditions you had on the hill I doubt anything would be 100% waterproof. I hope doggo didn't suffer any lasting injury.
Thank you.
I don’t regard any clothing to be 100% waterproof but this jacket performed very poorly for an almost new jacket.
I’ve just invested in the Mountain Equipment Lhotse jacket 👍🏻
If you want protection from endless hours of torrential rain get yourself down tothe hardware store. For £40 you can get a jacket that will withstand a fire hose all day
@@Eddy-Hope If l have to spend 8/10 hours in an open boat in torrential rain l wear a Vass jacket made from a fabric backed pvc, 100% waterproof for the life of the jacket, but no good if you are walking up a hillside.
There are loads of posts on
walking and climbing forums of paramo failures, even from very experienced paramo fans ,
I have a Alta Jacket, Velez smock , Cascada trousers, properly maintained , all leak in hard driven rain or hard blown wet snow , the jackets at rucksack straps , the trousers at knee and thigh when outer is forced against inner , the trousers have been reproofed by paramo and still do it , it's a known problem.
I always carry an emergency smock in case of a full failure, my torres gilet also helps .
I do like my paramo , but if I know to be very wet and windy , I take my goretex jacket and trousers.
👍🏻☝️