182 - Festool CMS Router Table
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2024
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A first look at the Festool CMS Router Table. For some in-depth discussion, check out the post on our site: www.thewoodwhisperer.com/video...
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Thanks for the kind words. Honestly, I pay attention when other woodworkers talk, or write. :) Lots of great people out there willing to share their knowledge.
I'd love to see a follow up video on the festool router table! I enjoy the work that you do!
Thanks,
Mark
Is that how I should pick my reviews? Do a poll first to see how many can afford it? Nah, I'll stick to reviewing tools that I find cool and interesting, regardless of price. But if you're threatened by seeing expensive tools on CZcams, remember that no one is forcing you to watch. And I'm not sure if you think watching Steve's videos is supposed to hurt me in some way? lol Steve's a good guy and does hilarious videos. Enjoy!
I was immediately sold off this as soon as you had to reach under the table whilst tightening the collet from the top. Thanks for an excellently informative video as we have come to expect though Marc!
I have the CMS and a Jessem setup in the shop. I generally wind up using the Jessem setup for most operations. The CMS is still being "evaluated" as a potential permanent fixture in the shop. :)
I'm trying to decide between the jessem ultimate table and this one which would you recommend. I appreciate any help and merry Christmas.
great review! just work with the router and show it to all of us (a lot of people watched this video!) Thank you for this one!
I'll admit to being a little intimidated by all the knobs. But Festool's setup videos were really good at showing me what does what. As it turns out, it just isn't as complex as it looks. And I'm glad you like the lamp. It was a major prize you know.
Great equipment for those who need quality work on a job site. Its portability is its strong suit, both in capability and light materials used. I do find the OF1400 EQ to be a great router for hand held work and small jobs. For larger projects, I think most of us resort to a larger surface area router table using an Incra system in combination with a router lift like the PRL V2 when working in the home garage.
Thanks for the honest review and showing us this fine piece of hardware.
Yes indeed
This is a concern I have too. I didn't mention it in the video only because I haven't spent enough time with it. And you know how safety devices that are new to us often feel odd at first. I figured it was a little too soon to say whether this was just newness or a questionable design. The fence does have a t-track that looks like it would take a range of bolt sizes.
Great videos.. I just got mine Festool router table, and cant with to start using it.. :)
Overpriced or not - depends on need. I have the CMS with router table, table saw and jigsaw inserts. I am a hobby woodworker with very limited space and also want to take tools with me to my summer house and my wooden boat. I originally got into Festool because of my boat. My old RO150 sander has really paid for itself many times. I also have original MFT, Kapex a couple of vacs and a Planex 225. With these tools even an amateur like me can get perfect results. That alone is worth the money!
Thanks for the kind words. And although I have a reputation in the woodworking education world, I am pretty much like everyone else when it comes to building custom pieces for clients. Well, only difference is I don't really do much of that these days. So I might not be the best person to ask. Building custom pieces is a challenging way to make a living, no doubt. I might head to some of the forums to see if you can get some good ideas.
Nice video. The dust collection is quite amazing.
It's for true pros and people who just won the lottery. I feel you on this. I can barely afford sandpaper and my "shop" is a 5' by 9' section of my bedroom/living room in my studio apt. No router, table saw, miter saw, etc. I do have a few hand tools, one small drill press, a circ. saw, a Dremel tool, a belt sander, and an angle grinder (along with a metal chop saw I hardly ever use.) Oh, and my small Dremel table saw. I'm focusing on making what tools I can a little bit at a time.
I assume you are not a professional cabinet maker.
Thank you...a first rate over-view. Very helpful for making a decision.
Everything depends upon the price you put on your own time. At my age every minute is very valuable, there being so relatively few left. The far better than most dust collection on the Festool system is what got me interested at first and it has lived up to my anticipation all the way.
Nice lamp
Great video and thank you for all the info you post. It really does help!
As a European Wood Worker living in U.S, I am exited to see quality German tool right at the edge of innovation. That being said, I would like to emphasize that this rooter table is no were near a substitute for a true shaper and if one of you out there is thinking about investing serious money in a tool that create quality molding and shaping details, spend money in a real heavy duty shaper with automatic advancement rollers and tilting arbor. The Festool CMS is a great toy to have for installs
I may never do an "official" follow up. I pretty much said all their is to say, although I'll have a more firmly formed opinion on whether it's a good buy for certain people. So far, I think I put this tool in the same category as the Kapex. It has some killer features and it's very well made, but the average ww'er might be better served with a more traditional router table setup. Unless portability is an issue, than the CMS wins hands down.
I love Festool because it has allowed me to be portable, it is compatible with all their tools, and the dust collection is the best in the business. Very well built. If you have a dedicated shop with oodles of time, I imagine you can cut costs by purchasing other brands.
I wasn't implying it so much as stating a truth of the company's goals. I can't argue with your point about contractors, but there's no doubt that the home woodworker is Festool's secondary market.
thanks for sharing this video with us. i really appreciate the way you are talking about tools and building processes, you sound just like a friendly and polite skillful neighbor .
from my point of view, this table is serious peace of tool for every woodworker. at first look all those nuts, bolts and buttons are confusing, but all has its place.
for the first test of this, i think you have done a nice job.
ps nice lamp you have there, behind you ;-)
Damn it, Marc... I was so content believing that this CMS was finicky and I could do an adequate yet cheaper job by building my own table... and now you had to come along and ruin my plans... I hope you're proud of yourself ;).
Looks very good but as you said the sliding bar for the hold down etc seem to be in the way both times you used the router
Hey that's the "Christmas Story" lamp!
FYI: With the Festool legs folded the table will clear all the under surface mechanism so it can be set up on a more stable surface if that is an issue. I find the foldable legs plenty sturdy for anything I have had to use the table for (so far)...
Tracksaw and a router, simply amazing as well. Ever have to make an angled cut on a 1x8, try doing it free hand on the table saw. Then use the track saw and marvel at how fast and accurate it is. Many people can get by with with cheap tools, I'd love to see the work they produce and how much time time they waste from their junk they buy
Hi!
can i use a circle saw on the same router table?
Just before you cut away 2:30ish I got the Christmas Story Vibe. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day even if no one is there to see it!
Festool, I've used many of their tools over the years and the only two I would buy is the track saw, the mitre saw, and possible the domino... none of their other tools are worth the cost and most are not as good as others... my plain old milwaukee router kicks the ass of overly complex festool at 1/4 of the price... the two I've had for over 15 years and are still in perfect working order... the only thing I'm truly impressed with is festool dust collection systems... the millwork company I work for bought 99% of their festools for dust free site work.. in the shop most of us don't use festool because other tools are better for general millwork..
+MrMeanderthal
The Festool CMS is compact, super accurate and can be used with their sander, jig saw and router. And the quality of the work on all of their tools is of a workshop standard.
There simply are not other products on the market that compare. Your Milwaukee is a good tool but is not quite at the same league as the Festool. But then again with Festool you will pay the extra.
bighands69
I'm about to hack holes in the guide bushing plate on my OF1400. When using a guide bushing the bit isn't centered. I sent it in to Festool for repair. They sent it back in the same f-ed up condition.
MrMeanderthal
Festool does ship defective product and then will not or cannot repair it.
I have bought several festool saws, Drills and planers and none of them have ever given problems. I have also bought several toyotas that have never given problems. I am sure in the ether there is somebody who has had a bad experience.
But that can happen with any product.
I had the same problem, guide bushing slides around a lot in my OF 1400, which makes it useless for some template routing. The dust collection is superior to any router on the market.
Hi i love all your vídeos
I learned a lot with you and all your great vídeos
I wonder if the router table can integrare the system ibox INCRA and the other incra sistems, the table has T spots?
Or how could I make dovetails & double dovetails with it.
Hope you can help me whit this
also keep in mind that it was a poor choice of push stick. My tall homemade jobbie is really intended for the tablesaw. I think the best type for this table would be the longer plastic push stick style.
Do the legs extend? My back begins "acting up" when I hunch over for too long.
The table saws in Europe have sliding tables instead of miter gauges. They also typically have a scoring blade, riving knife (rather than a splitter) and several other features due to different safety regulations. If you Google search for "European Table Saws" there is a good article explaining the differences.
This is something i'd like to use a 3D printer to make haha. No way could i ever afford/justify festool stuff being a weekend hobbyist. I sure do like watching them in action though!
Hello Marc! Nice videos, you are very skilled indeed. How did you acquired all your knowledge? Saludos y bendiciones!!
Nice review and presentation.
Backyardwoodworking, the cost of this table looks too be around $1600 depending on how you configure it. Plus $600-$850 for the router. Or get a Bosch table and router for $300-$350 with almost every feature as the Festool one. :-)
The Bosch router table will not allow you to use a saw with it as well or a sander and also allow everything to fit in the truck of a car if need be.
I don't think I said the opposite in the video, did I? I said that the table will move if you shake it or bump into it. But that movement isn't something I see as detrimental to the design and really shouldn't affect the results under normal use.
Hi Marc,Great Video again Im in the market for a router table to take on site for rabating architraves etc and this looks the biz
Hola Marcos Españolo lol, me gustan mucho tus videos, el formato y todo lo que enseñas es muy bueno, sigue adelante y un saludo
I wish I had those skills. :) My wife bought it online.
In my 30+ years in this business of WWing, Festool makes some of the best tools I have ever used. Are they super expensive, they sure as heck are, is the quality and customer service the best I have ever seen, yes they are. When your tools put food on the table, I learned many years ago on price and quality, only cry once on the price. Buy the best tools you can afford for that job. I have given just about all of my other small power tools away...
it seems to me that the featherboard adjustment lever would get in the way of using push blocks. I am lazy as well and i see myself skipping the use of those critical safety items because of the hassle. Can you use traditional holding devices with the T-tracks?
I happen to be a bit of a Christmas Story nut so I must correct your correction. :) While it is generally known as the "major award", the father does refer to it first as a "major prize". Only after he receives it does he refer to it as a "major award". And I spend WAY too much of my holiday season watching that movie, lol.
i like it seems like it has a lot of bells and whistles. I like the fact that it can be portable as I am not in a stand alone woodshop. I can just pack it up and store it out of harms way... might be worth the money for me.
Don't forget the Christmas Story leg lamp, my Nike shoes, and the Sports Clips business card laying on the floor!
Excellent Video. Many thanks
Seeing as I have a Festool OF 1400 and since I am something of a fanboi, that isn't really the problem. I just thought building my own would be the cheaper alternative (which it is) and deliver the same or even better performance (which it probably won't). So you presented me with quite the conundrum ;).
I'd gladly take one for review!
great video do you have the part number for the plate sectlon the router boltsd onto , thx
As configured it costs over $1,720 (not including the router)! Seriously, you could build your own multi function router table and cabinet for a whole lot less and keep about $1500 in your bank account. Most of the parts are extruded aluminum with secondary machining which is cost effective to manufacture. Injection molded parts and a few die cast parts make up the rest. At most, this should cost about $800.
I bought the Bench Dog cast iron table and lift for my table saw extension for only $680 and it does everything this thing does.
+D Tom
Can you explain then how you would get the excellent vacuum sorted out, and will your set up then also allow you to use a saw or sander as well on the table.
And will your set up also be compact enough that you could more or less carry a whole workshop in the truck of your car. And at the same time perform to a cabinet makers standard.
I wonder how much it cost. Looks like a nice tool,made well has a lot of safety features. We shall see.if the cost is worth it.
No but Google does! :) Gracias por las amables palabras. Buena suerte con su carpintería.
Hi, someone who owns Festool CMS can you tell me if it's a good choice to build cabinets, wardrobes, rebuild parts of doors, windows, etc.? I would appreciate suggestions and opinions
I am the very happy owner of CMS with inserts for router, TS 55, TS 75 and Festool Carvex. I can highly recomment it for all purposes. It costs money - but the quality is extremely high.
I wonder if they are shooting for finish carpenters? This seems ideal for that type of job - on site, but the need for a high degree of accuracy.
That bar holding the guard / featherboard seems like it would get in the way of.. well... everything,
Nice! Thanks, I should do the same so I can learn and built cool stuff!! BTW, I got your vid about finishes, I refinished my wife's dining table, she is happy, I get to brag!! Saludos!!
This is where Festool crosses the line.This is essentially a stand alone stationary machine that would take up much valuable shop (garage) space. For the price of the router, table and all the endless extras and add-ons you could buy a used proper spindle moulder (shaper) that wouldn't have any plastic and would last for years.
Also for another option in ultra quality portable tools, look to Mafell. Festool "borrows" many of their innovations.
Finally, you make very good videos.
In fact it is rather the other way around.. Mafell borrows from Festool. But please give me an example where Festool borrows from Mafell or any other brand for that matter.
I really liked this review. Thank you. EBD
I'm really lazy these days, priceless, I feel the same way lol!
Well, I suppose they must be selling it in production woodworking. I know for sure that in production, where reliability is a big concern, they'd spend the money for something like this. I worked for a cabinet maker as his IT and website guy, and his stuff was top quality. It was nice to have access to his tools. Perhaps thats their primary market? I'd love to have stuff like this.
The sliding fence is nice, everything else the Incra destroys it.
I thought the same - and noticed in the video that Marc encountered that exact problem.
Yah probably that too. I just couldn't see any contractor dragging Festool stuff around. The damage imposed on tools in the backs of pickups and rain and general abuse seems like a bit of a deterrent. I mean, you still want super reliable tools that are robust and up to daily abuse, but this seems to be on another level, in terms of its quality and price. I personally like to go top quality wherever I can, budget permitting. I'll generally save up for top quality.
I've had nothing but issues from a grizzly industrial product. My wife and I drove over 5 hours, and spent over $1200 at the Grizzly showroom in Missouri. Honestly the showroom is amazing. The product I got...not so much. I've had over 10 separate issues including defective, and back ordered parts sent to me. Grizzly did offer me $100 to keep the pos 😂😂😂. I like high quality tools, and won't hesitate to spend the money on them. Powermatic, Jet, SCM, felder, festool, saw stop etc. I like decent hand tools such as snap on, Milwaukee, dewalt, and I even think husky is decent due to being able to swap tools easily when they break one the job. We even have some harbor freight tools that I think are very very good. My experience with grizzly has been unsatisfactory at best. Not to mention they will not post my review on their actual website. Hopefully my review will help someone looking for equipment.
It's much better with the OF2200 router in the CMS - this makes a fantastic router table. I can't see why this combination is not available in America though as it is far superior to the OF 1400. Collet goes above table for easy cutter changes, the dust collection is much better and there's loads more power with the OF2200. The CMS router table module was designed round the OF2200 and this clearly shows when you've tried both the OF1400 and the OF2200 in the CMS router table.
Hey I thought you said "bye."
I sat through a minute long commercial just so you would get paid dude! Support our woodworkers!
Do you know the reason why Festool discontinued the CMS router table? I wanted to buy one but they are no longer available. I would love to know why the CMS was discontinued. Thanks. EBD.
YES you can do end_ work, just like a moulding machine, Put another guard on (looks like a turret of a tank or some guarding of a post mounted grinder)- has tin plates on all sides/top to protect you for this "freehand" style of workflow. lookup MARTIN machines, shows how it works, and They have a swing away system on theirs, so you don't have to heft all that weight when changing guarding systems.( another option is the guard you use later (~14:03), this would also work for end pieces too).
I just wanted to say I am a big fan of your show and your work. I am a good wood worker but I have trouble finding markets for my work. Any suggestions you may have to help me market quality wood projects for sombody that does not yet have your reputaion, would be held in high regaurd. I thank you all in advance for your input.
I have both and I assure you they are vastly different. Only similarity is the aluminum.
That is really kool table.
Nice lamp! oh and great video (-:
Yeah, Gary Katz types.
What in the world is a "European Style Saw" ??
A metric 220V version ? One built in anno 1650 style ?
excellent router table. not cheap but good.
I like the design of the table, especially the portability aspect. I have the portable Kreg table, and it always needs to be tweaked and makes a massive mess. The thing I don't like are all the p-ssy guards. They are over doing the gimmicky safety features just like all brands are doing these days. I've been doing cabinetry for over 20 years, and can count on one hand the number of times I've ever used feather boards. Also, the plastic bubble cover thing that all router tables are shipped with end up in the garbage can completely. It's like the top blade guards for table saws. Get the sh-t out of my way so I can see the work I'm doing.
The bubble guard is mostly to improve the dust collection.
What flavor is that green koolaid?
Hi Marc, thanks for the basic review and intro. I am newish to cabinetry and have some other Festool items(track saw, vac, OF 1400, and a 150mm sander) and I am looking at the router table. I am also on the early side of my career, so I know I am going to get 30 years out of these tools. I feel lucky to have such great tools (and awesome dust extraction) at the early part of my career. When are you doing a follow up on the CMS Router table? Would be nice to hear your experience. Thanks!
Marc, I tried to follow the link to your site. Both your site and the WoodTalk forums aren't responding. Are you guys getting DDoSed again or is there some other problem?
How far can you lay dados? I like my Incra much better
Jony Q - I have one and that is a downside to it. The benefit is that is sits close to a wall. I have the MFT so I can cut dados quickly and accurately with the router rail guides.
As so many often say: you really have to invest in the whole system to see the benefit. When you look at each item on an individual basis the cost/value/utility doesn't stack up.
Saws that are typically manufactured and used in Europe.
Cool..
Pretty cool that the featherboard action comes from a cheap piece of plastic that would likely break off.
+Maple_Dude
Plastic is far easier to mold. Trust me when I say if that was made out of metal it would cost 10 times more to try and get the same level of accuracy.
When you buy those little bits of plastic for $50 of Festool you are not just paying for that little bit of plastic you are paying for the whole platform.
Quality has it's price... but come on... it's just aluminum. .. the machine you have to buy separate!
I am the type who only wants to buy something once... not buy a piece of crap and turn around and have to buy it again... but this is crazy. .. $1600.
I wish I had it though!
WOWayne325 You have to remember most of the Festool stuff is site-focused, not shop focused. Lugging a cast iron or even a MDF based top around just wouldn't work. For an aluminium tool, the top and the fence look very straight, which is what you would expect at this price.
WOWayne325
Of up are earning $60,000 per year then a $1600 tool that will last 5 years will work out at about $6 per week. Just think about that for a few moments.
The question is do you actually need the Festool set up.
With every other router table I've seen, you don't have to remove the fence to change the bit. That seems like a poor design to me.
Ron Cleaver who said you have to remove the fence to change the bit? Removing the fence isn’t necessary to change the bit.
Part Two: Or, in one or two Net shop for high price as one common tool, as the Digital Pitch Gauge. One we can get is the BeastX Bevelbox. On one site the price is OK, some 30 euros, on the other it is the double. For the most, we handy man DIY can not get it at all. We only see those on the YpuTube and feel bad… :-(
PS. I like your videos, OK, most of them any way :-)
About the same flavor as that sour grape you're enjoying. :)
after watching whole video I think JessEm is still better, and their stock guide is priceless, too much shit is going on with this stuff here.
def its a money grab for loyal suckers
It’s a lovely system but I could never afford it ... I’m very surprised that there is no other manufacturer out there that is prepared to take them on and price it for the ordinary man?
If portability if not an issue, go for the UJK Technology Professional Router Table. With it's cast iron top and much lower price tag, it is a far better option than the CMS.
In 14 years my trend CMT table has never once been on site and yet for 90% of those years I ran a contracting business. I understand quality cost money but I have no doubt the Festool table is excessively expensive. It's just so annoying that Festool has come up with a good quality table and they want silly cash for it. That said with the exception of the sliding table it does nothing my old trend won't.
I quite like festool and have a festool collection. I did buy over long term. All festool is made in Germany and not made in other Countries like China Poland or anywhere like competitors do to lower costs. Their quality is controlled . When you do buy their products you will appreciate how good it is. This video is a good example of how everything works well together. The most interesting thing about festool is everything designed is done with a lot of thought and innovations. Tolerances on festool is a lot more precise than other manufactures and designed with simplicity.
I guess you just need to bite the bullet and dig in go buy it. Then analyse
Worth ever penny. I use my CMS all the time and would own no other. I started slow with Festool because of the price, next thing you know I'm selling my favorite motorcycle to buy more, it is that good. All the systems work together. I can't even imagine sanding with any other sanders besides Festool and never will again. I'll eventually own most of what they make. Once you use it, you'll realize there is nothing better.
Kirk Williams Yes and you cant stop. Im doing specialist formwork using festool equipment. Im a plasterer. I would like the cordless plunge saw.
+Adam Lynch
I will try to explain this but it is hard for most people to grasp. Festool is a whole systems approach. When you buy their expensive tool you are not just buying that said tool. You are buying all the innovation that goes into it.
That CMS table works with sanders, Routers and jigsaws. And on each occasion the tools will perform to a cabinet makers standards.
I am not joking you could have a workshop on the go with a Festool set up that could fit in the trunk of a car and it will perform to a workshop standard.
Also the material of the table probobly helps with vibrations. Looks like aluminum, and aluminum doesent transfer vibrations or energy as efficiently as steel
There are too many compromises in this design for my uses. Then again, I have no need for portability in a router table setup. I'm not impressed with their method of fastening the router to the table top. The feather board system looks very fidgety and, frankly, cheaply made. I love the sliding table feature and the dust collection looks nice as well.
How about static electricity? thats a painfull thing sometimes... Or is this a European problem?
Checked for an online price: $1,600 for a router table... I don't think so. I don't mind paying for quality tools, but this is a bit over ther top. There's some alternatives I can do procedurally do compensate for any shortcomings my Kreg table has, and I'll keep my money.
It's like the Festool Domino... great tool, high quality, but it doesn't add enough to make up for the additional price. Festool tracksaw same thing. Haven't bought Festool anything yet, and probably won't.
Fra-gee-lay it must be Italian, lol