A 1980’s Classic Reimagined - Part I
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2023
- Introducing the Pint-Sized Powerhouse. I’ve always wanted a pair of ‘Point Source’ speakers from the 1980’s but couldn’t afford them. Watch me recreate those classic 80’s 3-way speakers with modern components and then hand off the design to Nick, from Toid’s DIY Audio CZcams Channel who designs the physical crossover and creates DSP files to finish the job.
*Special Thanks to Parts Express for supplying almost all of the non-wood components for this build for both Nick and myself.
LINKS:
* Part II - Toid’s DIY Audio CZcams Channel video link: • BASS in the 30hz! and ...
* Speaker Grill Tutorial Link: • Build Slick Speaker Gr...
* Tweeter Link: Dayton Audio ND25FA-4 1" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter #275-059 www.parts-express.com/Dayton-...
* Midwoofer Link: Dayton Audio DSA115-8 4" Designer Series Aluminum Cone Woofer #295-524 www.parts-express.com/Dayton-...
* Subwoofer Link: GRS 8SW-4HE 8" High Excursion Subwoofer 4 Ohm #292-816 www.parts-express.com/GRS-8SW...
* Precision Port Link: 2" Flared Speaker Cabinet Port Tube Kit #268-348 www.parts-express.com/Precisi...
* 3/8” x 3/8” Neo Magnets from TotalElement:
totalelement.com/products/3-8... - Jak na to + styl
Love this! Especially the reminiscing and the Star Trek references. I can’t wait for everyone to see the final project!
Thanks Mr. Toid! There is one more 'Easter Egg' probably nobody noticed... I used the "Star Trek" font for the thumbnail... it's called "He's Dead Jim" on my computer. It matches pretty closely to the original, so it would take a VERY keen eye to spot that one.
I own pair of PS-10s . original, refoamed. Awesome speakers. Still in front of my system
Cool. I got rid of all the speakers I owned back in the day, but if I could have afforded a set of these, I bet I would have kept them! Thanks for watching!
Righteous, radical, and bodacious!
Dude! Thank you!
Was just watching back to the future( in the netherlands ) and saw your title layout 😮
Just saw the whole video, very nice build with the magnetic grills and same rounded footplates!! High end speakers, qurious how toid do the dsp!
I can't wait either! I want to hear these things sing! Thanks for watching!
Love this build! Can’t wait to see an update for the results.
Thank you, I suzpect Toids video will be coming out soon.
Man! I miss RadioShack, i would go there all the time as a kid just to look at all the cool stuff.
yeah, me too. It was a great time to be alive. Made me want to work hard at my job, save up my dough, and enjoy the rewards with a nice new piece of audio gear! Thanks for watching and commenting!
I watched the live feed on Toids channel. I'm the guy that had the PS-8's. I wanted the 10's but I couldn't afford the extra. I was VERY happy with these speakers. Funny as I was working as a Radio Shack mgr at the time and had access to Mach One speakers...a great deal when on sale for $159 each. I still preferred the DA's. You did an amazing job here. I can't wait to see what's next !
Right, thanks for commenting! EdZak7257 below mentioned he had a pair and we figured they were around $1,500-ish a pair back in the mid 80's, certainly not cheap. And for the timeframe, their overall performance and low end were pretty stellar. Mach One's! I had a friend that had them, I had a pair of the 12" three-ways I showed in the video. I purchased them on one of their half-price sales. That was the only way I could swing getting gear that nice back then. ?Those were the days. : ) Thanks for the comment and input, I appreciate it!
Thanks Tom. Really great video!
Thank a million. I appreciate the encouragement. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Great video! Speakers came out great too.
Thanks a lot! I'm trying.
I had a pair of the ps-10’s loved them
It sounds like everyone that had a pair really liked them. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Tom, I love your work. I'm an electronics
hobbyist (amplifiers, preamps, phono pres), but I am attempting my first speaker build from a kit, CSS Criton 1TD-X. I bought the birch ply flat pack. I'm doing the baffle with a router and I am going to apply paperbacked veneer with Heat Lock glue. I hope someday to be able to make my own cabs like you. Thanks for the videos.
Thanks a lot John. You picked a good kit to start with. Kerry (one of the owners just in case you didn't know, although you probably did : ) is a cool guy and I like the way he does things. We've talked a few times at various DIY speaker events and he knows how to design a correct crossover. I think he more got into this because of his deep love for the hobby than to try and make a killing. It sounds like you've got things ready to go, but I'll just offer this video I made, which has a little veneering tutorial part-way through. czcams.com/video/hsgkD7EOBS4/video.html I hate to offer help you don't need, but it just has a few things in there that may help avoid issues. Using the roller is a huge help and one of the things that make veneering this way with the heat-lock glue work so well. Even distribution helps prevent bubbles. Also, going around the edges of the cabinet a second time after a few minutes isn't a bad idea either. Sorry for the book... Best of luck with your project!
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Thanks Thomas! I will follow your advice.
Very well done video.
Thanks for saying that, I spend a good couple of weeks on it. I'm glad you can see at least what I was trying to do, even if everything wasn't quite perfectly pulled-off.
I remember the Shack’s speakers. Some were absolute junk, but some were quite good.
Right. Not all of them were good, but there were a few gems during the 80's. I wish they were still around.
I've never seen anyone who needed to learn Onshape more. I'm 55 and I've just learned it - by the time you get to grips with it you'll wish you could teleport your mock ups into it.
I've never heard of it, I had just heard of Sketchup, which seems pretty similar. I watched a few videos on how to use Onshape, and it looks to be a pretty decent program, doesn't look TOO hard to pick up. : ) I have a background in graphic arts as I used to work for a newspaper creating advertisements, so I've gotten used to using that program, and have just basically stuck with it all these years. I can't rotate anything I draw, though, I have to just draw it again!
Thank you for the suggestion, and for watching and commenting.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430
Yeah - not going to wave a flag for any brand but Onshape is the one I use.
2 clicks and you can export an STM to 3D print - wow - just about any custom port or terminal you can think of and you can get a decent 3D printer for less than a decent 12" sub driver - crazy!
Speaker boxes are one of the easier things - plus you can export a drawing or to a CNC.
The neo magnets all come from China and I'd bet that the first 3/8" (.375) magnets were actually 10mm (.394) Acoustic guitar builders use heat and moisture to bend the 2 sides of guitars that are typically hardwoods that are around 1/8" thick. I wonder if a heat gun or hair dryer with a little water might work with wood veneer. Great project, and thanks for using drivers that the average guy can actually afford. Even the insides of the enclosures look like art. Thanks for the effort.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment. The second batch of magnets were much thinner, but they came in a sealed cylinder much longer than it needed to be, so I didn't know until I got home just how thin they really were. Thankfully, I'm happy to learn from mistakes. : )
We did try and use cost-effective drivers on purpose. Hopefully some folks will build these and really enjoy them. Thanks for the comment, I appreciate the encouragement!
I'm glad to see your videos becoming more and more interesting. Well done, I installed the magnetic suction screen cover for the speaker and learned some content. Long videos are great, and it would be better to have more close-up visuals and temporary details and processes, which would be even better! We won't dislike videos being too long.
Thank you for the feedback. Possibly splitting things up into smaller sections or topics may be good. I struggle with dancing the line between being informative and treating this as a descriptive or learning opportunity, and it being entertaining so people don't click off. I appreciate you watching, and commenting, thanks again for the feedback!
Cool video!
Thanks, and thanks for watching!
These are gorgeous. Big fan of the veneer trimming tool!
Thanks! It's very effective, but also a little scary to use. It's literally a razor and one slip and you've got a nice little gash on your hand. I'd actually like to make something a little beefier with thicker steel that could be sharpened with a stronger handle assembly, but I'll use this for now. Thanks for watching and commenting!
This is AWESOME!! First pair of speakers I owned back in the 80's. Aside from the originals being sealed, they also had the offset mid/tweeter alignment where the tweeter was closer to the edge of the baffle vs the midwoofer. I sold them to a coworker after picking up a pair Vandersteen 1b towers.
Wow, can I ask you if you remember, what you paid for them back then? I know that was a long time ago. : ) They were really unique speakers and you were fortunate to get to enjoy a pair. Thanks for watching and for commenting!
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Going off a spotty memory, I think they retailed for around $500/pr? May have gotten a discount at the time. This was probably around 1984-85. Picked up the Vandys in early 90's and sold the PS10's.
Okay, thanks for getting back. So that's like $1,500 in today's dollars. No wonder I couldn't afford them! : ) Thanks!
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Also..... the baffle on the original was covered in some sort of a rubber-like material, probably due to the state-of-the-art at that time as far as what tech was available. The woofer was a 10" unit, but since it was a sealed box and yours is a ported design with an 8" woofer, and add to that modern technology you have available, specifically the DSP, I can imagine that your design will have some serious bass capability.
@@edzak7257 Hey thanks for the comments and info on these speakers. I entertained the idea of going with a black baffle to make it look like the original, but didn't realize that there was some 'softness' to the baffle material. I guess I never got a real close look. Yes, our updated version should reach into the mid-30 Hz range with some authority.
Another great video, Zarbo! Keep it up!
Thank you very much! Thanks for watching.
This was incredibly interesting to watch , subbed!
Awesome, thank you!
The technology has gotten so much better. I have designed and built a lot good speakers . My buddy those speakers. I also have a vintage realistic receiver from late 70s its 65 watts and it's probably my favorite.
Yeah, some of that older gear was actually pretty good. I always thought many of the older (70's - 80's amps) had a nice warm sound to them.
@zarboaudioprojects1430 it definitely does it was made by fotex I think it's a sta 2270 and it's 65:watts I found it at a thrift store for $40 and when I picked it up it felt like a tank
Very nice, good cotent, only one thing missing again no one ever seems to do a demo the most important thing to me is how do they sound.
Thanks Alan. I couldn't do a demo at the time of the video because there was no crossover yet designed for them. Nick from Toids DIY Audio channel did the crossover work and the DSP stuff. I can say, though, that it's really hard to give viewers an accurate representation of what I'm hearing with my ears. I don't have equipment that can do it justice... but I do feel your frustration, I'd love to "hear" more finished speakers too. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Ive ripped apart those PS-10. The woofer was a 10 inch woofer in a enclosed box. And had a tiny motor on it. The tiny motor i guess helped take up less space from the small enclosure. It was a cheap made in Tawain woofer prob just good enough for the application. Then DA released the PS-10A with a increased box volume. It was only slightly larger but used the same woofer from the PS-10. Prob to help make a deeper bass and help the cheap woofer survive. I think they changed the crossvoer in the PS-10 over the PS-10A
I think I've seen the larger PS-10A, I believe it was a little bit taller? I bet our version will dig a good bit deeper than the original. Funny, the tweeter was a really decent unit, and the midrange actually had a cast aluminum frame on the ones I've seen. Seems they went pretty cheap on the Woofer. Hey, you can't see it under there I guess, so why bother. Thanks for watching, and for the comment.
Those DA PS10s were some seriously interesting speakers! One of my friends had a pair (note to self - check with said friend to see if he still has them). Weren't they originally sealed cabinets though? I'm curious as to the choice to go vented here, particularly as the plan is to use DSP to adjust the overall response of the speaker anyway, and that woofer has a pretty decent Xmax to work with. If the DSP includes dynamic EQ, you could have it roll back the output at low frequencies a little if the volume is turned up and the woofer is reaching its excursion limits.
Yes, the originals were sealed. At least all the ones I saw as a teen, they made several versions of them over the years so I can't speak for all of them, but I think the ones you and I are talking about were all sealed.
Not to speak for Nick, but regarding going vented... Here's my thinking on this... you can tell me if I'm off:
These speakers should be able to reach into the 30's with some authority if vented. Going sealed would have required more wattage to get them to the same output level in the lower registers, and since we're using a 4x100 watt DSP amp to power these, the preference was to save the wattage for overall output instead of 'spending' it on getting more dB's down low. If we had more watts to throw at the GRS sub, we could have probably gotten away with going sealed and throwing some more boost in the low end.
Messing around with it the other day, I fed a single cabinet some 30-40 Hz tones in the basement and I liked what I was hearing... As it is, these speakers should NOT need a sub. : )
Good observation and thanks for the insightful comment.
Do we need to be concerned with diffraction regarding those thick front grills?
YES!!! I'm sure they will mess with the sound quite a bit. I'd leave them on for background music, but I'd go grills off for any serious listening. Of course, if you build a pair, feel free to reshape the grills differently so it won't be as big of a problem. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Nice work. It is my understanding the grills will cause diffraction of the sound waves.
Yes, they will for sure. How bad remains to be seen. Casual listening=grills stay on... Serious listening=grills come off. Thanks for watching!
I'm curious if the prototype made it to the Parts Express DIY meet over the weekend?
I don't think it did, Nick is still revising the crossover a bit.
Howdy , where can I find the video for the DSP / wiring etc. ? Cheers
Hey Philip, here is a link to Toid's writeup on these... toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/pint-sized-powerhouse-a-speaker-collab-between-toid-and-zarbo/ I think everything will be available from Nick at Toid's DIY audio before too long.
Thank you @@zarboaudioprojects1430
I ordered Pint Sized Powerhouse Build Plans and can’t seem to download the plans. Do I have to have Windows to download it?
Hi Ralph, I'm not sure how Nick has it set up. Is there a way to contact him on his website to ask? Maybe on his forum?
Hi Ralph, I'm not sure how Nick has it set up. Is there a way to contact him on his website to ask? Maybe on his forum?
Doesn't the port need to be 4" away from the wall
The rule of thumb is that the exit of the vent should be at least one vent diameter away from the cabinet wall behind it. Instructions say you can get closer than that in the Precision Port instructions, due to the huge round over.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 ok thanks I was wondering about that.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 how do you like it. My friend from work has on the those in his kitchen he still listens to it .
Nick still needs to button up the crossover and DSP settings at this point, so we don't have a final version to comment on sound-wise. Stay tuned for Nick's (Toid's DIY Audio) channel for Part 2 of this build. That will probably scratch all our itches on this project. I'm really looking forward to it myself!
@zarboaudioprojects1430 OK thanks for the update and the content I will stayed tuned
Есть и с добротностью ниже и бумажным диффузором, типа "эстрада" 6*9 . Те и слушать вполне можно, если лополнить ВЧ и сабвуфером ниже 70Гц.
Kudos. You have inspired me to refoam the subs on my 1988ish ps10's
Yes! Do it! I hear from several people that the surrounds on the woofers often disintegrate. That would be a great project to keep those things alive!