What Is ZFS?: A Brief Primer
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2020
- Helpful books by Allan Jude and Michael Lucas:
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Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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It's pronounced ZFS not ZFS.
>Americans can't even pronounce ZFS as ZFS
What on earth are you talking about, CLEARLY its ZFS. I mean come on, ZFS just sounds... silly
It's aladeen not aladeen 🙏
I read every one of those as "zed eff ess".
@@tin2001 Me too
I love how a 30+ minute video is a brief primer on this channel.
No, I'm not being sarcastic, I actually love that.
Right!? Some of us have a longer attention-span than a goldfish...
ZFS is not very beginner friendly.
@@Lead_Foot you are not suppoed to change it out with XFS or ext4 afterwards, it is a learning process that you'll stick with for the rest of your life, so you have time to learn :-)
There's another channel that has an introduction to ZFS video that's 90 minutes long. Just the introduction.
Others do a 12 minutes video and title it "everything you want to know about zfs".
Wendell:"Brief primer"
Me: "Really? Brief?"
Wendell: "30 minutes"
Me: "Oh, ok! That's very brief for ZFS!"
I was thinking the same thing. 30 min video 😅
I'm an engineer with almost 30 years experience in the storage industry at a low level (the bottom 3 or four turtles in the stack you alluded to) with other Sun Microsystems engineers who worked on most things you're talking about, including the full fat ZFS. I properly enjoyed your video and really like the fact that you mentioned that computers barely work. Storage reliability is one of the most complex computing problems out there in a world obsessed with the higher parts of the IT stack assuming everything Just Works (tm). Latency, throughput and reliability quite often can be mutually exclusive practices.
When you test for any issues and see some race conditions in the lab every 6 months... you can bet your customer base (depending on its size) will see that kind of issue in 6 days. Storage is Hard, like... properly hard. :)
Thanks for your video. It brought me back to why I do this.
wow a whole paragraph explaining what your qualifications are ... cool
@shahabsamkan4027 who cares, it's just background on his experience before giving a opinion. 🤦🏽♂️
@@shahabsamkan4027 , qualifications are important. It's usually indicative (but not always) of the depth in which they're viewing the problem. Less experienced people tend to gloss over important details, or even be unaware of them. So, qualification listing is a way to convey that depth without going into an entire thesis regarding those details.
@@shahabsamkan4027 wow, you're insecure about others' success 🎉
Oracle acquiring Sun is classic example of some evil corp buying a really good company and destroy it.
Actually Sun Microsystems intentionally chose a license that isn't GPL compatible so that Linux can't add zfs drivers in it's kernel.
@@hassanzahin7852 isnt the legal opinion on this divided? Strictly talking about openzfs.
@@hassanzahin7852 That was not why CDDL was made and this has been hashed many times by the people that created ZFS and got Sun to try to open source their stuff. The suits didn't like the fact that the GPL didn't preserve certain rights to the business, and the Apache License while good wasn't quite enough to make the suits feel better so they made the CDDL which was the GPL and MIT licenses mashed together with all the bits that made the suits feel nervous stripped.
They also say hind sight being 2020 they regret not fighting harder sooner to get it licensed into an existing opensource license. The FUD that they made the CDDL as some sort of genius mastermind plot because they hated the GPL is just that, FUD
@Richard Clutterbuck Yeah that's right on that. Ubuntu is basically saying by precedent currently a user can choose to do whatever they want, so "ZFS is no different than loading the NVidia drivers, fite me" in effect. Nobody really wants to take up that fight because if they win they basically kick Linux hardware support in the shin, if they lose they weaken the GPL.
Oracle watched 300 and thought that classic line was brilliant.
Oracle: "Our errors... will blot out the Sun!"
Excellent, this comes up literally the same day I buy three 6TB drives for my first ZFS setup. :D
Hope you didn't buy any of the SMR drives :D
@@erisdiscordia5547 Yep it's basically what happened to me, they were all these fake WD Red 6Go NAS HDDs, i bought them before the issue was exposed...
I would check that they aren't on this list, if they are, return them now and get a product not on this list.
The list:
www.ixsystems.com/community/resources/list-of-known-smr-drives.141/
Hopefully I'm not too late. Save yourself a lot of time and headache. Get another 6TB drive, and set up a pool of mirrors. RAID5/RAIDZ is dead.
better hope none of them are SMR drives!
I love ZFS, it is the best FS I've used, at work and at home.
I really like the snapshot functionality
I use ZFS everyday, we use it on most of our storage devices, and I'm still learning new stuff about it on a regular basis. Sun really did some great work.
Time to take notes!
I'd love a video on ZFS tuning. So far, all articles etc. on this topic have been a complete mystery to me, the documentation is just not very helpful to me in this regard. It only talks about hundreds of tunables without any comprehensive explanation (that a person without a deep understanding of the source code could understand) what they mean.
+1
Yeah same
The books Wendell recommended at the end are very good. Try them.
Create a pool and a dataset. Run 'zpool get all | less', run 'zfs get all | less'. Read through all the flags and properties, Google them and learn about them in the manuals 'man zfs', 'man zpool'. Read openzfs.org/wiki/Performance_tuning and start tweaking the settings with 'zpool set' and 'zfs set'. Once you're comfortable tweaking through the ZFS commands, you can start tweaking your OS' kernel parameters and the ZFS services, if need be.
go to ZFS subreddit, it's pretty good
2:50 oh the days we've had SUN-BLADE workstations with Solaris OS , SPARC processors and the rest .... such nice systems to work on ... some still survive till today (almost 20 years later)... only a few of us original IT guys know how to use and administer them so their days are numbered (in preeeeeeetty small number).
I was selling Sun Ultras (off lease) from Ford ... to the tune of 300 x Month
As a viewer from the overseas. I appreciate your Aloominum vs. Al-u-min-i-um - I mean Zed vs. Zee distinction.
As an American, I do to. Not sure why, but I do.
American men dont wear bonnets. I would never drive a car with a wind screen, I prefer a wind shield
Nick Norton Everyone in US says Aluminum. Even our Aloominum foil in grocery stores has it printed on the box.
Thank you for this. Having someone like you explain it is so much more digestible than reading a ton of technical documents..
Would love to see a video like this for *XFS* ! But if you don't want to that's totally understandable.
Wow - thanks for the shot at 13:00 of your old offices. It made me realize how long I've actually been watching your videos! Boy, how time flies...thanks, Wendell!
Thanks for these videos, Wendell!! We really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us! Please keep making more Linux videos!
I’m so glad people like you are working so hard to educate us; I owe you. If you are ever in London, my house is your house.
I enjoy these types of videos way more than tech news on the other channel, I would really like if the focus would shift towards teaching material such as this!
Thanks for this great fireside chat Wendel, you are the best
Thank you, chill background music.I enjoyed this.
Good stuff Wendell. For months I poured over reviews of raid cards to run a raid 5 array. Then I was introduced to FreeNAS and ZFS, and when I found out all was needed was a decent hba, I was sold. ZFS is crucial for data protection.
This is the best reason. Redundancy brought to the masses with inexpensive HBA cards, and all you really need is a bunch of RAM to run it, which we have. ECC is not even required, its just important to have. Also, its open source and we can tell what its doing. Using something like FreeNAS will teach you ZFS and BSD at the same time, if you decide to use the command line, and take control of your own data destiny.
...yep, can't have data-protection without zfs!
@@touristguy87 I can't see it any other way
Great high-level overview video Wendell! I wonder if you do a next installment could you fit unRAID (XFS/BTRFS) in there with a similar approach? Like basic overview, differences, applications?
Very well explained, insightful video. Thank you for this.
This was so incredibly helpful and educational. Thank you so much!
Love your videos, Wendell! Thanks!
Great stuff as always!
Thank you for this video, you did a good job dimystifying zfs
Would love to hear a comparison between ZFS, WAFL, and Nimble CASL
Thank you so much. Eye opener!
Love your work my friend! thank you so much for your splendid explanation
Awesome video and explanation of ZFS. Now I have the bug to want to learn more. Thanks so much. 👍
This is so informative and well-explained! Respect man!
Thanks Wendell, great as always! If possible I'd like to see a LVM deep dive as I'm not yet understanding it totally. I always thought LVM would be unnecessary but with what you now said, it makes much more sense now.
Also have you or anyone else tried out a recent version of bcachefs?
Thanks Wendell, I love these, now when is the next one? ;-)
Thank you Wendell, this is one of the best introduction to ZFS, it's clear and concise, it's easy to understand from a beginner's perspective. Would love to see more of this type of video!
Thanks. That was brilliant!
You have a good voice for explaining. Kudos.
Good stuff Wendell !
This is probably the best ZFS explanation I've ever encountered in my life.
Excellent overview! Thanks :)
2 years later--ZFS is still rock solid and I have to say the only time I have lost data, is when I tried to use the command line to move data instead of TrueNas native data transfer. Probably error on my part. I understand more now about ZFS, and love freeBSD which natively supports it and so I have not done anything with BTRFS.
Great Informative video !
Fountain of knowledge as always. Great explanation Mr Wendell. Not that I understood much of it :-)
Ha! I did the raid 5 recovery last week, that was fun.
Thanks man, this was both informative and your voice is like unix ASMR :3
I live in a country with 2 to 14 power-fails/week and I had a lot of garbled music files, so I'm very happy with ZFS and its Copy On Write. I even have my dataset with music stored with copies=2, basically introducing a mirror for that dataset in an otherwise striped datapool.
@@amitranaware9356 That is why I have a 1200W Avtek Surge Protector. But in general power supplies and motherboards die more often, because of power fails.
Im amazed on how simple you manage to explain this complex topic. Thanks for all the effort you put in to your videos! Btw: I think its pronounced ZFS ..
Thanks. I like this format and appreciate your videos. I'd watch a 30min on XFS as well if you end up doing some other file systems! I've been running UNRAID servers for many years and would like to peek under the hood a bit more.
I love ZFS on my QNAP NAS (I'm using QuTS hero) and everything related with it (ZFS cache processes, inline dedup, compression etc.). 💪👍
love ZFS in FreeNas/FreeBSD. when BTRFS gets more reliable I will learn and use it.
Thanks for the video W. :)
Thanks! Been doing flashes of OpenBSD & Ubuntu, both of which offer 'experimenting' with ZFS. Gonna try them out today
Great insights. Have you done vid on how long solid state storage lasts versus hard drive (spinning rust)?
"Brief"
31:49
Wendell!
Thank you for the excellent video. I am considering switching from Windows 11 to TrueNAS for my home file backup server.
I started using ZFS a few days ago, and I was really blown away at how incredibly simple it was. I wanted to configure four identical disks in RAID 10, and this was the only command I had to use:
$ sudo zpool create NAME mirror VDEV1 VDEV2 mirror VDEV3 VDEV4
And that was it. No need for formatting or lenghty initialization processes. It just worked right away, and performance is excellent. I'm sure ZFS can get really complicated for more intricate setups with caching and tiering and tuning, but for my simple use case it was refreshing to see how easy it was.
Great video. Thank you
Awesome video!
Brilliant vid thank you! I have a much better understanding of ZFS now! awsome :)
17:55 *Hard drive can be a silent carrier: ASYMPTOMATIC !!!!*
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
+1
This is perfect thank you, definitely will educate others with this video haha
Here I am almost a year later watching this video. Why? I bought a QNap NAS to play with, and I'll eventually buy another one to back up to. Thank you once again Wendell for putting out these, and I'm now subbed to this channel in addition to the L1T channel. :)
"Well, that machine caught on fire-"
Me: **LP0 ON FIRE!**
Great video ofc, but would love to have a similar video about btrfs
Cool, that corrupted picture you used was of an FRC competition from 2015 if I remember correctly. Winnovation was one of our regional teams when I was in high school.
In a round about way ZFS was a pioneer in software defined storage where managing storage at a low level went from hardware to software. You now see the same principles applied in many other applications and technologies like HCI for instance.
Can we get the 10 hour complete ZFS explanation? I just started using FreeNAS and I'm still getting used to the nuances of how it all works.
I put butter on everything, just not my file system. BTRfs is catchy, like you can't say "I can't belive its not ZFS" it doesn't roll off the tounge
Once Redhat abandoned BTRFS as an option, it was doomed...
Any hope for more enterprise CZcams videos?
you said asymptomatic in such a way I just knew this was uploaded this year
Really nice and in-depth explanation, great as always! Still, Wendell, what file system would you chose for a NAS, made of 4 hdd, of 10TB each, for which data integrity and realiability are of utmost importance? I have little knowledge in regular coding, and from all my research, would like to chose the OpenMediaVault operating system, but it does not have native ZFS support. It only has a plugin for ZFS capabilities. Would you consider a plugin that incorporates ZFS, reliable? At least, compared to an operating system with native ZFS support? From what I've read, I think I'd rather go with OpenMediaVault, than with FreeNAS, which I know has built-in ZFS features. This is a weird question, 'cause my problem for safely storing/archiving data, has reached a point where all I know for sure, is that I want ZFS to be my filesystem, and would like to start from there, rather than choosing a specific operating system, and then choosing the filesystem :))
More zfs videos. Can you make a gluster plus zfs video? Or another scalable zfs solution
22:30 You can always se the "copies" property to e.g. 2. By doing so you're telling the filesystem that it should store every file within the given dataset 2 times, on 2 different physical location on the disk. So if one of them is on a location with full of bad sectors, the fs will still be able to retrieve the file from the other location.
Can you do a comparison between ZFS and ReFS? I'd like to know the fundamental differences and similarities between them.
Excellent high level video. Just migrated from a Synology to my home build Ubuntu, and needed to understand what the ZFS hype was all about.
OMG, PBS couldn't have done a better job at explaining this. I was with DEC back when ... This was the type of information that was available daily. It's great to see it again. Hit SUBSCRIBE, "YES"
I have a 12 bay ZFS file server appliance, and i have experienced bit rot, but thanks to ZFS Z3 i have never actually suffered a problem do to it, and it fixed the problem, if i get more than one on a drive, I'll do a scrub to make sure no other drives have corruptions, then swap the drive with a replacement
Love ZFS as a gamer. I took my gaming laptop with two ~500GB SATA SSDs, created a mirrored bpool, and then created a striped rpool. Of course, I recommend no one run this way, but it’s fast.
Also, with built in compression, potential exemption of datasets from snapshots, and dataset level case sensitivity, I can create separate sets for flatpak, Steam, and Lutris that are fully under my control with increased operability of case-insensitive programs :)
No idea how to use it on a server level, but as an insane home user, I love it.
12:29 It’s a *proprietary* computer on a card. And an inflexible one at that. Which is why I try to avoid hardware RAID.
This may be the only logical thing you've said. This argues for using ZFS instead of hardware RAID. Since ZFS is open source now.
Great video. I just got my self a new dell Precision 5750 with two NVMe drives and want to do a system wide raid1 setup on gentoo. Was wondering would people recommend zfs for this type of setup? Am just getting my head into zfs at this point and love any tips. Thanks
Might be more a level1linux flavor video, but can you do another deep dive like this explaining CEPH?
Thanks!
OMG FINALLY, BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ALL MY LIFE, NOW PLS COMPARE IT WITH WHAT "OPEN MEDIA VAULT" USES, I NEED TO KNOW WHICH IS BETTER !!!!
Open Media Vault uses EXT4 or NTFS. ZFS will protect your data better than either of those.
What I am interested about is actually the development of bcachefs.
It's built on top of bcache but (oversimplified) want to be a ZFS with the performance of an ext4.
It's pretty young (with few developer(s)) and isn't mainlined, but can be mainlined into the Linux kernel, is actually stable (compared to btrfs) and a pretty "clean" (for a FS) codebase.
Definitely something we should keep an eye on.
I used to go to a swap meet in CA with my dad on weekends where he would buy things like 8" floppy drives and huge 68000 cpu-based servers that were basically rescued from a landfill. Two or three weekends later he would triumphantly show me a working command line on an amber monochrome monitor. I miss my dad.
I'm interested in how the Windows port of ZFS turns out.
Recently I've been tinkering with the next best thing (kind of) - exporting a ZFS ZVOL on FreeBSD as an iSCSI target and mounting it on a Windows PC. Effectively NTFS on top of ZFS. Surprisingly easy to set up, too.
Why would you place NTFS on top of ZFS?
I'm asking out of interest, I am not questioning your decisions, I don't have a very good understanding of ZFS or Filesystem's.
I hope this makes sense :)
Thanks :)
@@longnamedude3947 ZVOLs are a little different from ZFS datasets. A ZFS dataset is a dynamically allocated chunk of storage space with a mountpoint that the OS sees as a UNIX-like filesystem (inodes, users, groups, permissions, etc.) with some properties like "is the data compressed?" or "is the data deduplicated?". A ZVOL is like telling to ZFS "I need X amount of raw storage no strings attached" and then ZFS creates a new (virtual) device with X amount of storage space, but it's not formatted with ANY filesystem: the main use for this feature is to use these chunks of raw data as disk space for virtual machines, but nothing prevents you to set them as an iSCSI target. iSCSI is basically SCSI over Ethernet and Windows can access iSCSI targets (aka iSCSI data volumes) and see them as regular disks and so format them in NTFS.
master class!
What are your thoughts on ECC RAM being absolutely mandatory when running with ZFS as the filesystem?
There is debate back and forth about whether ECC memory is required or an optional extra. ZFS has been the file system of TrueNAS (formerly FreeNAS) for many years. iX Systems, the maintainers of TrueNAS, only sell computers with ECC memory. Draw whatever conclusion you wish from that.
Personally, I think if you’re going to go to the trouble of running ZFS to protect your data, and you’re buying the hardware to run it (rather than using what you’ve already got) it makes sense to spend whatever extra it costs to get ECC memory.
But I’ve lost data to bit rot and to having a backup hard drive fail at the same time as my primary drive failed, so perhaps I’m more cautious than other people? But that’s why my primary storage is on a TrueNAS server using ZFS. It’s built with a used SuperMicro server motherboard using ECC memory. My first backup is on a duplicate of that server. My second backup is online at Backblaze. My third backup is on a Windows box in a different city. And just for the fun of it, I also keep extra copies of my entire family photo archive on Google and iCloud.
There are only two kinds of computer users. Those who have lost data, and those who will.
I am wondering if you would give us an update with some details of the latest OpenZFS updates to the ZFS system
I got the basic idea, but I think I'm gonna need to try it practically to get it. Too bad I don't have a lot of drives to create a pool out of
I recently built a storage box and I couldn't decide if I wanted to go with NTFS or ZFS (Windows vs FreeNAS (at the time)). I really liked FreeNAS's interface, and after I got over the learning curve coming from an all-Windows background, I was all set to use it except 1) I didn't like the idea that I couldn't add a single drive to the pool. As an individual on a budget, being able to add a single drive here and there is of great benefit to me, and 2) at the time I was still under the impression that using RAID was better than using the disks individually and FreeNAS wanted me to break up the RAID into individual disks. In the end I decided to go with NTFS but now I'm starting to second-guess myself. Can anyone tell me what the minimum number of disks I can add to a vdev pool in ZFS and can each pool be aggregated into one larger pool of storage?
things have really changed in btrfs land with RAID1C3 and RAID1C4 additions (common use is raid1c3 for btrfs metadata, raid6 for data). I feel like this should be reviewed in the future and see if the write hole is still an issue as it was
I haven’t dove into ZFS at all yet, but I am considering setting a DIY NAS for my home. It will store archived data, media, game files and that’s about it. I’m just looking for something rock solid that I don’t have to really worry about after setting up. Are the benefits from the feature set in ZFS enough to make up for the complexity that a noob like myself would have to learn? Also, is there an argument vs the raid that synology uses? Thanks for the info, you’re videos are super helpful for us newbies out here!
Great video, 30 mins flew by
While other people go for 19:9 video aspect for phone users, you are going the other direction (1.66:1). Just shows how special this channel is :)
TLDR:
Basic Raid: If a file corrupts, even when there is a non corrupted file on a another drive, you can't get it (unless you send the drives to recovery)
ZFS: automatically gets the non corrupted file from the mirror device
Also ZFS hasn't caught upto NVME yet (@24:22), to be fair RAID is an array of *"Inexpensive"* drives
Can you do a video on zfs and proxmox and optimal settings?? I'm really confused, for example should I use zvols or qcow2 on top of zfs? Contradicting statements on forums. 4k, 8k, or 16k recordsize? what about zvolblocksize?
Can you also do the same for btrfs? Do you recommend it for traditional desktop usage, opensuse uses btrfs as its default filesystem. What do you think about the compression feature of btrfs?
You know ZFS does compression too right? :)
@@Kludgedean now I do! That is cool!
Makes me proud to have had an X4150 back in middle school :P
Excellent.****
Can you do one on IPFS?
Regarding scrub speed - 24 drive storage: CentOS 7, OpenZFS 0.8.4-1.el7, 1 pool, 1 drive pool global spare, 2 vdevs raidz2 (11 and 12 diskas), 90TiB of data ~= 2 days for a scrub (while other machines are writing about 50MiB/s data to it over the network)
Very interesting explanation.
Would ZFS be a good file system for a DIY NAS with 4+1 drives with 12TB each?
Totally - Been running ZFS as a nas for myself. Work and all my customers. It's virtually bullet proof. I have had corruption once though that lost the entire pool. A poorly designed power supply caused it. Remember it's NOT about the wattage of a PSU it's the amount of power on the rails basically 1200W GOLD was not enough to keep my drives alive. A smaller better spread out 700W had no issues. Most modern PSU's have loads of power for the GPU but not for multiple drives as more people move to SSD's and CLOUD.
@@df3yt Ty for the answer. What would you use as Raid there, something like a Raid 5 with one "spare" HDD? I thought about using a small APU with the upcoming renoir chips since I want to avoid Intel if possible.