The American classroom in 2023: College vs. trade schools
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2023
- Emmy-winning host and show creator, Mike Rowe, joins ABC News Reports as we look at American classrooms and discuss some different paths students might take.
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#news #college #tradeschools #abcnews
I’m a teacher and I tell my juniors and seniors that not everyone needs to go to college but everyone needs to know what their plan will be. We need to bring back trade classes (auto shop, woodshop, cooking, etc)
Vacation trade school great blue collar careers every high school should have more technical education class/ careers
Right. Should know what we want to do with our life. For the next 1 to 30 years will surely arrive. The question is where will we arrive?
Teach them programming/computer engineering. Those jobs aren't going away.
@greedo9543 I'd much rather code than wake up at the crack of dawn and gain long-term respitory issues for crap pay... 🤣
@greedo9543 I'll outlive you and have more money. 🤷♂️
I grew up doing HVAC with my Dad, now I'm a Software Engineer and love what I do but there's always that chance that AI could one day take my job. Because of that I'm now a licensed HVAC Technician so I can start helping my Dad on the side again, and I have a trade that I can turn to if that day ever came that I know I would enjoy doing and am already knowledgeable in. Just to be clear, that doesn't mean that Software Engineering is better than HVAC or any skilled trade by any means, I just prefer it myself but I have met people that were programmers like myself and have moved over to a skilled trade full time and are much happier there. The problem is that by default skilled trades are looked down upon, and for no reason other than they do not require 4 year degrees. Going with a skilled trade is a DIFFERENT path from college, but NOT a path that is lower than college. Heck, these days data shows that most trade workers that are journeyman level or higher are making more than most college grads anyways. We've got to make this an ACCEPTABLE path for folks, and quit getting unnecessary college degrees that leave us in loads of debt for low paying jobs.
You said it perfectly!
Plan B technical training school but software engineering technology scientists better white collar and blue collar careers
Blessed is your soul and mind. These new gens know nothing but clout chasing and thug behaviors 😂
Service wrench brother
Shop classes were always a great way to introduce students to alternate career paths. Most schools no longer have these. College definitely isn’t the end all for decent careers that pay well and junior high and high schools need to offer opportunities to introduce students to the trades and other career choices which are greatly needed.
A great way to introduce children to being self sufficient as well. Learning how to do their own woodworking or installations etc. Nowadays people just pay for any services needed.
I volunteered for a program that helped teens struggling to finish high school as a math tutor. These were mostly 17-19 year old young men who couldn't even pass Algebra I much less Algebra II. The program's goal wasn't for these teens to just graduate high school, but to go to college. It was only when it was clear these young people couldn't possibly go to college that trade school came up. The issue is that if you can't figure out basic math, then you can't do many of the very technical trades. Only these individuals who really have some significant learning issues are being routed into trade schools and they're likely failing there as well or can't end up with a well=paying job if they can't do advanced training. Maybe they can do oil changes as a mechanic but aren't going to be working on transmissions or electric vehicles. Routing kids who are good in math into trade school isn't even considered. Really, this should be thought of as technical school since these jobs aren't manual labor with no math/science skills. Rather than studying Computer Science at a university and getting $100k in student debt, it would make more sent to go to a technical school. But never would high schools promote that.
Interesting ad copy. I write this as constructive criticism. But you meant to say "sense", instead to say "sent" to the second of your last sentence.
We need more Trades. College isn’t for everyone.
I am the proud 1971 grad of a wonderful vocational school in rural Ohio. The skills they taught have fed my family and paid my bills for 50 years and I have never had a hard time getting a job in any economic condition. Without the trades, nothing gets built, nothing gets made or repaired, nothing gets planted and grown. Trade and vocational schools are the backbone of the country.
This country is lacking the subsidized investment in its next generation of tradesmen.
As someone who ended up in a white collar profession with blue collar parents, I never understood why public schools phased out home economics or wood shop or any other type of “practical skills” classes. Even in college, I didn’t understand why some universities focused so heavily on theory while others focused more on applicable knowledge. A well rounded individual in a well rounded society seems like a much better goal. PS. I have no regrets in going towards the college route. It was where I was meant to be. Physical labor just doesn’t suit me like it suits others. I personally would rather we encourage all children to explore all types of professions and give them opportunities to learn about their many varied options.
Thank you, Mike, for leading the charge for for careers in the trades and with your generous foundation!
I think it’s the way it’s packaged,
Plumbing doesn’t look as glamorous as working for a corporation that requires a degree in something!🤷
As a college grad, I acknowledged how high school and society in general is pushing teenagers towards college. It's as if its the only path to become successful. I realized during the four years that I am basically attending a institution for a degree that I am not sure is the field I want to pursue. I was not yet mature enough to know what I want to do for a career. I would encourage high school students to think about what they want to do for a career and even encourage to take a gap year. Now I am saving up to pursue certifications and gain experience to would help me break into project management.
It's whatever works for someone, whether it's a trade or being an accountant. There's nothing wrong with being a plumber or construction (the world needs them both) but both are physically demanding and are generally a younger person's job. Once a person can't do that job for whatever reason, what is plan B?
That’s what he is saying get the young kids to get to these jobs by not demonized them. It’s not like a doctor can practice forever either. Also during childbirth and after childbirth can’t bounce back to work either so fast. What then?
Western countries are bad about being sedentary throughout most of their lives.
White collar jobs heavily contribute a sedentary lifestyle.
I’m a Medical device technician and work with guys in their early 60s, most are fine squatting and sitting as they’ve repeated these movements throughout their career. Most move into management towards the end.
I join the Navy after HS and gained the experience to work on aircraft. I also went to trade school to be an A&P mechanic, now i work at NASA a senior mech/tech on NASA aircraft. College came later for me and did learned much than my time in the field doing OJT work.
Love Mike Rowe for his continued efforts on this. So important. Much solid money to be made.
Wish I would’ve gone to a trade school, instead of 5 yrs of college with a Degree I never used. Go to University if you want to go into a field where you actually need that degree- Medicine, Engineering, Law..
what degree did you attain?
"For every 5 trademens retiring, only two are replacing them."
Hey that's cool too. A shortage of tradesmen = higher salaries due to lack of supply but slower response times. All it takes is one natural disaster and the system will crumble.
There is a stigma attached to trade or vocational school that if you go into a blue collar job, it’s a dead-end job. The overriding thinking is if you go to college you’re going to elevate yourself above that and you will have a “better” career. Nothing could be further from the truth. And although my job is not a quote/unquote blue collar job, I went to a two-year college for court reporting, it’s in the same vein that it’s not a traditional college path. And this was after I got a bachelor’s and a master’s degree in another field. I wish I would have just pursued court reporting from the get-go. Great job, even better money!
Shop class is still in some schools. I graduated in 2009 from a rural school that has multiple levels of shop class
I graduated from a school that has shop class too.
So true! Trade schools are very important and should be promoted ..as a boomer, we grew up with trade schools and “shop” classes in high school. Great report…please do more 👍
Is it still more feasible to trade school than to college... 20k more people trading up to take every single one.
Another reason why there isn't enough trades peoples in America is because most employers don't want to teach their employees how to do everything on the job. Because most employers don't want their employee in the future to start their own business, and compete with them out in the marketplace.
No they can go to trade school and learn themselves. It’s because white people emphasize and think they are above these trades. The parents want their fancy lawyer and doctor son to parade around. Usually people only go to college with parents help so a lot of their influence is there.
Another one of today's problems we can thank boomers for. Every boomer parent I know told their kids on a daily basis how they have to go to college without even considering whether that kid would do well in college.
Pay isn’t right.
As colleges get ridiculously more expensive, trade schools make better sense.
Fun fact, the host and the interviewed both went to college.
It shows you how to touch these people are.....
Going into a trade is so much more work than going to college. The only way you make money in the trades is being your own boss and that requires insane amount of work.
If you go to college for a degree that feeds into a profession certification, you will have no problem living the best life. The problem is the colleges have so many worthless degrees.
Same thing with the trades. If you go to be a car mechanic and go work at the local dealership you're going to slave your life away for no money.
At a certain age a degree turns to dust 💨
@@SUGAR_XYLER So does your back in the trades!
@@SUGAR_XYLER I'm responding to you and Ryan above if that's alright. Trades are a massive amount of work, of course, but that doesn't mean that upper education isn't. Both require a lot of work, it'd be crazy to tell that to someone that spends 8+ years on a Ph. D. They put their blood, sweat, and tears into their work just as people in trades do.
Both trades and degrees are CRITICAL for society to function, so what's this comparative competition about? It's not only y'all, it's our entire society. We need our doctors and judges just as much as we need our construction workers and electricians, neither could work without the other.
There's nothing wrong with going further into education. As a graduate student, I can't even describe the value that academia has given me throughout these past six years.
People seem to forget that education is also a form of experience.
@@SUGAR_XYLEROh, is that so? I'm a self-employed advanced practice nurse with a graduate degree making 300k a year. No dust in my future.
@@isocarboxazidnurses are not building houses or the hospitals. Nurses are not installing electricity. Who doesn’t know that nurses need education, giving out meds better know what you doing. But do you order things from Amazon? Truck drivers deliver meat and produce to your grocery stores where nurses shop too. What about farmers? Without them you have time to grow your food?
The conversation has to be about "fit" ... not "vs"... one doesn't have to be putted against the other.... interesting, though, that he has a college degree....
A decent jobs that pays well doesn’t mean college is the path! Master’s plus hours in education 27 years later my nephew makes way more within a few years…Good for him!
College degrees in white collar jobs are over saturated.
My parents didn’t get to go to college so it was always ingrained that I would go, no matter the degree, no matter the cost. And don’t get me wrong, I loved it. But as a practical matter, it wasn’t the best choice for me and I’m not in my field that I have my degrees in.
I'll tell you straight up. Trade schools, and the trade themselves, are not for everyone. Some people are just not wired to do them. But, there are still plenty of jobs that don't really require any advanced education. The issue is that we told EVERYONE that they needed to go to college. So companies don't even waste their time trying to train people for roles anymore. Another issue is some companies think way to highly of themselves. Hell, I saw a "sales" job where the employee is literally just a customer service rep and they wanted them to have a bachelors degree. That's ridiculous.
I agree It's not for everybody I'd recommend ppl to try it out for a summer first see how you like It before jumping right in
I went to trade school, electronics.
I went to work at a mid sized company.
To my surprise i was making more the the collage grades in the office and didn't have to put up with the office crap.
I think that a lot of us are pressured to go to college and see it as the only viable path in life. Parents now cannot admit it when their child is not college material since it hurts their pride. If your brain works better than your hands, go to college but if your hands work better than your brain, go get a trade. In my case, it proved to be my brain that works a lot better but I highly respect those who can plumb, lay bricks and work with air conditioning or electricity.
Tradesmen and tradeswomen are actually some of the most knowledgeable and intelligent people I’ve ever known. Very successful people with many who are business owners in their trades. I have worked with many college educated people who lack common sense and are only ‘book smart’, but not intelligent. Big difference.
Many plumbers, builders, and electricians would most certainly tell you they do in fact have to use their brains. They have to follow specifications and codes or they could be putting people at risk. Many college graduates do not have the aptitude to understand what they do. There is also a huge range of degrees at a university including fashion, marketing, social work, engineering, biology, etc so there is even a range of abilities on a college campus. Intellect is hard to universalize. It's less about deciding who is smart enough to go to college and who isn't and more about choosing the pathway that best fits your strong suits.
College should be reserved for people that want to work on more theoretical or abstract subjects or stuff that require more experimentation than implementing physical systems. Subjects like certain sciences, social science, humanities, etc. Because you sit around in classrooms thinking so much, your body is not learning anything, only your brain. Your body is part of your memory system, hence why there are expressions like "muscle memory". There are people that just remember things much better when they are moving around through physical space and doing things than purely through reading and talking. For those that work with their hands but require in-depth knowledge of things on the science side, they should be given options to take only the necessary courses needed for the job. Would be great if companies can provide incentive for this as part of job training.
If your mouth works better than your brain, then go to college*
@@user-pn3im5sm7kI’m sure you wouldn’t say that to the doctors, nurses, engineers, scientists, etc., that all went to college and make life better for everyone.
I am a master tradeswoman. I served in an essential job for 20 years, physically destroyed my body. Now at nearly 50 I'm completely disabled but not eligible for disability or any assistance. There is no union with my trade. I was harassed endlessly and assaulted multiple times because I'm a woman where I "didn't belong" now I'm. struggling with poverty and homelessness. I do not recommend this trade to anyone, especially women.
The trades are for men!!! Should have done something softer. Daycare, nails, beauty. Cooking. Houses need to be built and we all need electricity. Men are made to work. You wouldn’t have a man birth a child because…they can’t.
If you feel that way, why not mention the trade you were in so others can profit from your advice? I am not disrespectful of your suffering, but it would be helpful to have a little more clarity.
From the discussion in the comments, it seems that people are saying (1) there are some degrees that lead to good jobs. And (2) some trades are really awful. Both valid points, but I think Mike is saying that the best trades are better than the worst degrees.
The whole point of the college degree promotion is selling “prestige” and comfort. High-paying, white collar. Office work, not very physical.
im with it, but i can barely change a lightbulb
Trade schools are great, i have respect for them but, if you want to become a nurse, an architect, a doctor, you have to go to college because they are required to and you have to be licensed by the state to work in the profession
Yes, and that is a different animal. That is what college is for. However, many people are going to college for absolutely worthless degrees. That is the problem.
The building, plumbing, and construction trades are being overtaken by poorly trained immigrants who do substandard work at low wages. Thats who your competing with.
Shop classes are a liability. Principals will place 30-50 students in one shop class. Teachers can not supervise all of them. Many students come inside the classroom break equipment, horse around, play with equipment as a toy, start fights, etc. the students are not respectful to the equipment nor to the teacher nor to their classmates. Parents want to do as little parenting as possible because they work 2 jobs then teachers are not going to do shop classes. Also, teachers have to pay for all of the classroom supplies. Do you think as low salary that a shop teacher wants to buy all that lumber and expensive shop materials? No! The schools pay for some supplies like 5-25% of the shop materials and then the rest is on your own. The bad behavior of many students, the high number of students and the lack of financial support for shop materials contribute to no shop class. If parents want their child to learn shop skills, then the parent can use their time, money and patience to teach their own child. Thats really with any skill. Pay someone to teach your child because public high school teachers are not paid enough to deal with the aggravation of a shop class!!!
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” Just because you're not "smart enough" to go to a 4-year college it doesn't mean you can't succeed in the job field.
The skill trades industry need to step up their recruiting as colleges are beating them. Also, skill trades need to recruit people all year around and not just an intake once or twice a year.
11 million open jobs that don’t pay well lol
The teachers back in the 90s were saying just what Mike is saying now, but no one listened. We kept saying "College is not the only route in life," only to be ignored. I saw the trades portion of high schools shut down and everything went to the CORE areas and standardized testing. And look where it got us today? America....continuing to show the world how not to do it.
America the warning on how not to do something
Another big mistake with the Law in America is how manufacturing jobs went other seas to China, and other countries who were playing the long term game, not the short term game.
Not in Connecticut. We all were told to go to college. Even me going to a state school was considered wasting my potential.
To much BS in college, business need to recruit and train there own.
Agree, I've always said the same thing
There is? Did you go?
@@SUGAR_XYLER are you speaking from experience? Or just your opinion?
I know. Like all the other classes and books you have to buy and attend the classes that has nothing to do with your Major. It's messed up none of my high school teachers in public school didn't say anything about that.
Issue to me is clearly the licensing and regulation, at least in CA. A person may get one class of contractors license in 4 years, assuming they work hard and their boss/company does not screw them over. There should be faster tracks for training and licensing. The system is rigged to make it hard for the individual and small business person to get in.
If you are a company holding the license you literally only want your employees to get licensed if they remain loyal to you. So you want few of them to do that because you want your labor costs low as possible.
Amen to Mike It's so true. Trade school is the way. It's a damn shame what's going on when it comes to trade school. NYC has closed down a lot of its trade schools over the years.God bless the school in the Bronx my youngest went to. ❤
Stay away from automotive trade, it's garbage pay. Go heavy truck or millwright if you like vehicles or machinery.
Thats why we have people like johhny sins to do all of it!!
Creating intellectual property for the businesses of our country is very important. We need to lead the world in the applications of the natural sciences towards all these fields (civil engineering, physics, engineering, etc.). That's why we need many, many people in college.
I once paid a plumber $350 for about 15 mins of work. Worth every penny.
You’ll get better skills from a trade school then college
I think media needs to help. Maybe a cool tv show or Netflix show around Trade School. Maybe Chris Pratt is the shop teacher... Mike Rowe drops in on occasion for a guest appearance.
I would have preferred to go to trade school and learn how to work with my hands😂 a lot more practical than having to acquire a lot of knowledge and being tested over and over again and then be considered certified .
My roommate repairs cb radios. He can’t sell his incredibly successful business because there’s no one else that does the work.
trades is the way to go the only thing is government needs to be offer more flexibility fo financia aid to students that want to go to vocational school
Technical career plumbing and electrical and auto mechanics and HVAC etc skills trade careers blue collar vs college white
Trades is the way.....😎😍😍😍😍🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
Yes we need trades. Kudos if you want to be a plumber, Electrician, Brick Masonry, Roofer, or Mechanic? But a majority of people don't want to do those jobs. Like, Mike Rowe got famous doing other peoples horrible "Dirty Jobs" that we watched because we could never see ourselves doing that dirty job.
Bro honestly if you don’t have a strong interest in an academic topic, I highly suggest learning a trade. It’s also relatively easier to master and find a career. I literally have my masters in marketing and I’m having trouble getting positions. It’s so annoying.
The younger generation is going to ask AI 😮😮😮 how to build a house, fix the leaky sink, fix lights, or repair a car. We need trades school.
Babyboomers were pushed into college because college was the best defense against layoffs in manufacturing, of course colleges were massively subsidized by states. In the 80's college was the road to middle class. You could no longer depend on manufacturing so college degrees became the only road to middle class. In the 90's the push from corporations and state governments was we needed more college graduates to keep up with India and China, and that has been the push for the last 25 years.
You're more likely to be successful with trades.
South Park already covered this joke.
Hey, CZcams will teach me.
What's the difference between school and life? In school, we're given a lesson, and then a test. In life, we're given a test, that teaches us a lesson.
Thats not how it works
For fools it doesn't. Those who rebuke the truth, and do not seek understand.@@jherc12990
A college degree is worthless in 2023 I have 2 cannot find a decent job to save my life
Mike Rowe is the last person I need to hear preaching about blue collar work. He is nothing more than a former opera singer that pretends to do a dirty job for just one day for the cameras, then puts himself on a pedestal criticizing how lazy everyone is.
Next thing you know, there will be an over saturation of trade school graduates and no jobs 😂
Safety standards get ignored in skilled labor jobs. If you work on a car , expect to get bumps scrapes and bruises daily. The smell of oil and brake dust r bad for you. DONT WELD ! its got toxic smoke / fumes, sparks. Its HOT in the SUMMER wearing the coat , helmet, and thick clothing. + robots. NOGO
That is a good point and it is true. However, the nature of the work itself is a health hazard, usually.
It wasn't obvious to me when I was younger id tell anyone stay in school @@sasquatch7234
Dont take advice from a conservative.
Or a religious person
College = learn how to be a left wing activist
Trade Schools = learn skills that will benefit your family and community for the rest of your life
In my experience college tends to focus on coming to your own conclusions and justifying those conclusions. When you start interrogating your own beliefs you'll often end up finding flaws in some of them if you're intellectually honest with yourself. I struggle with this often, as do most of us.
Stem classes in college don't promote political agendas in my experience
Not true. I went to a city college in order to obtain a bachelor's in finance. I'm a very political person, but always ignored the whole "take a side! Left or right!" Rhetoric.
The people you see physically harming people for not adhering to their ideology, are the real sheep. They are constantly scrolling through social media trying to find a cause that they can cling to, without first understanding the core issue surrounding it
Just being in a religion or part of one can do the same.
@@Youwish34 You’re not wrong but I don’t see religious individuals looting or antagonizing the police at the “March for Life”, for example.
right.. people who are in the trades make a lot of money, but lack any kind of manners.
There's a lot of open racism and bullying too.