Your Favorite Handheld Is Getting BETTER!
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- • Is Valve working on a ...
@ETAPRIME • AMD Frame Generation O...
FSR 3.1 with Frame Generation is now functional on some Steam Deck games, which could significantly impact handheld gaming. This video covers FSR 3.1, modding updates for Steam Deck, potential new Steam Controllers, and other gaming industry news. AMD's FSR 3.1 technology improves gaming performance by inserting interpolated frames for smoother gameplay, particularly beneficial for handheld systems constrained by battery power. Additionally, Nexus Mods has introduced an app to simplify modding on the Steam Deck. Valve's recent update on Steam Input reveals increased controller use on Steam, with new controllers like the HORIPAD for Steam, raising questions about the future of Valve's own Steam Controller.
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Chapters
00:00 - AMD FSR 3.1 with Frame Gen is on Steam Deck
01:29 - What is Frame Gen?
02:29 - When it works best
03:27 - Doesn’t work at a system level
05:00 - Modding on Deck is getting EASIER
07:05 - Valve giving up on Steam Controllers?
10:49 - HORIPAD for Steam - Hry
Is Valve making another Steam Controller? ➡ czcams.com/video/breMfRr-0Ks/video.html
Will those not official controllers but they still nice
From what I have gathered Valve had their hands in while designing the new controllers but I guess jokes on us it is only releasing in Japan as of now
BRO what the steam deck is slowly replacing my ROG ally more and more now. modding games is why I use my ally more than my deck. I can play skyrim modded forever 100 time over.
You should check out lossless frame generation It is universal frame generator that can be used for most games and not only. Designed from machine learning to run on a wide range of GPUs, including integrated graphics cards. I haven't tried yet but I am going to whenever I get a sec.
I really love the Steam Controller, its the best in my opinion. in fact if I have more money back then I would definitely gets at least two more for a full 4 controller set up
My fear is that developers will depend on FSR and Frame Generation, instead of properly tuning games to run at native resolutions.
Exactly my thoughts!
like DLSS
Native resolution is out of the table this whole generation, not a single game in consoles run natively (of course there is those 2 that no one plays) and in PC is even worst cause even last gen cards aren't even in the recommended specs for new releases, i think the biggest problem is 4K, the technology was sold to us 7 years ago and just now we can scrape 60fps with upscaling
They definitely will
they are already doing that with fsr/dlss. Look at cyberpunk, totally unplayable on mid end-PC without FSR/DLSS
Valve getting sued by a patent troll over the analog triggers/paddles is still one of the stupidest things to happen during the Steam controller's development
The important distinction here is, that FG is NOT an no-brain activation.
Upscaling's only downside is a little worse image quality for much more performance.
FG means an additionally worsening of Image quality AND the introduction of additional input lag, while increasing the framerate even further ... so it's not free performance as upscaling is: FG is trading one performance metric for another (more input lag for better framerate) which can feel noticeable worse than the lower base framerate of your game (depending on game and user).
That's because on base framerate you get every image presented as soon as it's ready (upscaling or not), while with FG your GPU holds the current frame back, to first calculate the interpolated frame based on the current and the last frame (while the information of the real frame already gets slightly outdated), then it shows you the interpolated (while the information of the real frame gets even more outdated) and only then it shows you the real image based on input information some time X ago, instead of showing it instantly without waiting.
This leads to increased input lag in every single scenario (even with NV Reflex or Radeon Antilag) over the base (worse) framerate without FG.
So you get a smoother looking image (make 60 look like 120 or 40 like 80) but you also get more input lag (make 60->120 feel like 40 and 40->80 feel like 30) while using FG (numbers are only examples and vary from game to game / engine to engine).
For some games it's more noticeable than others based on the kind of game and whether you play with gamepad or mouse and keyboard (indirect vs. direct camera control) but it ALWAYS does introduce more input lag ... to claim differently (which sime do) would be also to claim your GPU is actually time traveling 😄
Digital Foundry did a test of Lossless Scaling two days ago (4th July) where they tested how much input lag gets introduced when enabling FG. Using FG which is implemented in a games engine may give you better results as an external tool like LS can provide, but it always will introduce additional input lag.
Every user just has to try it out which he/she is more sensitive to / more irritated by: lower framerate or higher input lag, which also can vary greatly from the type of game you play and the input devices you use.
Generally a rule of thumb is: direct camera control (like playing an FPS/3PS with mouse or VR) or also platformers, which require very precise and timely inputs (like Celeste or something like a first person platform, which would combine the to concepts) makes input lag the most noticeable, while playing both slower games and with controller will make the difference indistinguishable to most players.
I run a modded Skyrim on the steam deck,all u do is copy over a modded version of Skyrim onto the steam deck and change the launcher to launch the skse launcher and there you go
FSR 2 does not work on Steam Deck out of the box on everything. The FSR from the quick access menu is FSR 1
When will the quick accesses menu get fsr 3 lol
@@kennypowers1945 yea thats what i wana know too..
fsr 1 does look pretty damn well but it does tank the fps quite a bit
what do you mean the nintendo switch is getting better
@@kennypowers1945 it;s literally impossible fsr3 need variables from the game that cant be accessed externally
@@talison461 they’ll let you buy switch 2 soon
It's very rare to get surveyed by Steam. This past month got the survey on PC and Deck. Almost felt curious in turning on the old laptop to see if I got it in there too. Almost...
@@SamuHell782 I got it on my pc and Lego
I’ve gotten it at least 20-30 times, it’s not that rare…
I really like the Steam internal workshop for modding. Easy and straight to the point for easy setup for the average user. I really struggled with nexus mod
Love this Channel. I watch CZcams a lot and stumbled across your videos a few months back. - I was gaming with my brother who lives a state away from me...when I described you he knew I was talking about the Nerd Nest and enjoys your content also.Keep it up man, quality content as usual
Say hi to your brother for me.
On frame generation, Lossless Scaling has been routinely blowing my mind on my Legion Go. Enshrouded is pretty poorly optimized on PC right now (still in early access so no shade), but I'm running it at 1080p with low/medium settings to lock in at 30 fps and I'm getting 60 fps with just a bit of flicker/ghosting on my big screen TV. Better optimized games run like butter at 60 fps high. It's nuts that a $6 app is effectively doubling my frame rates on a machine with no dedicated GPU. And like you said, this tech is only going to get better. I absolutely agree that frame gen is the next big thing in gaming.
It's genuinely a con though, remains the same responsiveness as 30fps. Albeit I agree it does look smoother
@@Samelala yeah you're 100% right the responsiveness remains the same at best. It's a shame that the term FPS and the way people interpret it has been exploited by developers of frame gen for the sake of marketing. 120fps with FG vs 120fps without are two completely different things. That doesn't mean frame gen is bad whatsoever, but seeing X frame rate vs feeling X frame rate are not the same and frame gen only accounts for the visual. Wish we used some different measurement so everyone could understand this intuitively.
I'd buy two Steam controllers if Valve makes them.
Hey Nerd Nest. I really enjoy watching your videos when i have the free time. Id love to see you guys make a video on the legion 5 and 7 pro. Also cant wait to see your take on upcoming games like Star Wars outlaws and Space Marine 2. Thanks.
Was watching this video while Playing on my docked Steam Deck with a Steam Controller I just got last week. I can’t go back to my old controllers anymore.
The Steam Controller is the controller I’ve ever felt the most comfortable with.
I want one too, wish I'd of known about them when they were only $5 bucks new, but do you think it's really the most comfortable controller or do you think it's because of the hype around it after it was discontinued?
You are sooooooo right about a steamdeck without the screen, I Love the controls of the steamdeck and nobody has come close to beating it yet. If they sell a steam controller 2 I’m DOWN!
I would also love to see the Steam Deck work as controller+extra screen on Desktop Steam akin to the WiiU.
Agreed on the Steam Controller 2. I just want a Steam Deck with no screen in the middle. I would buy several day 1.
Frame generation can also be used on game that are locked to x to get more frame rate
It sure is! My ROG Ally gets even more frames now!
He’s back!!
I hope the trackpads become industry standard with the Right Trackpad as the default camera and the Left Trackpad as a radial menu for 1-8.
And then if every company iterates on that basic design for a couple of years like they have with the DualShock and add in back buttons and a back scroll wheel…we would get the perfect controller.
I hope Valve sees that the steam deck is already possibly the blueprint for the future perfect controller.
Nixxes did an amazing job on these ports 👌🏻
You should revisit the alpakka controller it has had some big updates from last time you used it.
I love steam controller 2 talks
FG is basically that, a Frame Generated artificially using some algorithm and insert it between the real Frames rendered ( this could add some input lag ) , and then the supersampler could be FSR , XeSS or DLSS
My hope is that Hori are in the know about an official Steam Controller and it's going to have trackpads so they want to offer a more classic alternative to Valve's controller.
Really hopeful for nexus getting worked out. I love Skyrim Modded. And while I have it working via copying the file directory from pc and doing weird file linking in steam on the deck, it is such a tedious process that it isn't even really worth it. I got to a new part of the game where FPS became a slide show, and because I can't tweak the mods on the deck OR access the launcher graphic options, I'm basically just done playing it.
and how many of those using controlleres are a actually using them connected to steam deck? so we got to factor that in
your last video was for my favorite handheld.....but looks like your favorite is getting FSR too.
Hey Bill! Do you think Valve is referring to FULL controller support in that article? The reason I ask is because I owned at least 300 games on Steam back in 2017, and I remember the vast majority of them having SOME kind of controller support. Most of the ones that didn't have any controller abilities were strategy games. The reason I remember so well is because (like you) I grew up playing games on a controller, so I STILL prefer to use a controller whenever I have a choice! Any other old-heads out there who can confirm this?
Finally gonna be able to mod Skyrim on my deck amen
just wish the sticks weren't offset
No rumble on the horipad is the real bummer. Hopefully they come out with a slightly higher end version with rumble and maybe a trackpad
No rumble or track pads I wouldn't even think about buying it
All I need is just lossless scaling working natively on SteamOS. All these frame gen implementation takes a lot time to work, while windows handhelds can already benefit from this amazin software.
The dev seems completely uninterested in supporting it. It's just a shame it's not open source as someone could fork it and make a Linux version.
I'm actually really looking forward to this controller despite not having trackpads or rumble. If it means that more controller manufacturers will make more gamepads with Steam Input in mind, I'm all for it!
Vortex coming to the steam deck is big as I’ve been using steam tinker launch and it wasn’t working too well
I would like a steam controller it looks so cool
The LEGO, yea just got a new legion space update 🚀 🔥
Once FSR 3 hits all the games we gonna be lit! 👌🏾
I wish they'd of made the steam deck with a series X style Dpad, in my opinion the Oled would be basically perfect if they did that
Tested it out on Spider-man and the cpu overhead of Frame-gen seems to push the average "real" frames down closer to 30 with an output of "60". To my eye 40-45 fps cap in a 80-90hz containter is a much better experience both visually and latency wise. But like you said this tech is only gonna get better.
My deck's right trackpads rattle with the haptic feedback. Don't know what to do. I've only been using it for 5 months.
for games like bg3, you need to share mods with the people you play multiplayer with or it won’t work. I really would love being able to mod BG3 to get those other playable DnD classes and spells.
👾 sick!!
Yessssss! I've been messing with Nexus to mod Fallout on my steam deck and it wasn't working for whatever reason :( but finally Nexus is supporting Linux! Can't wait till they figure it out for everything.
Fallout 4 luckily has mods built in. New Vegas and FO 3. I had to use mod organizer 2. Was a bit of a process. But not horrible. However Some F04 mods don't play nicely. The hot springs for example. I usually have to save, close and relaunch the game after entering the bunker
For sticks that are not hall-effect, the Steam Deck has my fave sticks to date. I’d buy a Deck controller without the screen. Slightly better d-pad and bigger, flatter buttons would be sick.
i have the new hori controller since i live in japan. its great! but theres no rumble and that sucks
I bought Spider-Man yesterday and after a small hour of tweaking, I finally do not use this feature and stick to a solid 45 with no ghosting or anything too much troubling. Still, well done, I believe lots of people will enjoy this 🙏
Valve should do a direct connect between the steam Link and Steam Deck like the wi U
frame generation is like a black magic for the fps counter
In my experience fsr ultra quality is good to upscale 1080p to 1440p, and fantastic to upscale 1440p to 4k. It's not the "fake, blurry mess" some pretend it is at those resolutions. However it gives really poor results to upscale to 720/800p on the deck, because it simply doesn't have enough material (pixels) to work with.
Frame generation can be a game changer, but current hardware isn't quite there yet. I'm not sure if the NPU would be useful for frame gen, but I feel like a special chip or die specifically for tasks like frame generation could be an excellent way to push hardware limitations. Alternatively, AMD could give us more cache but that's a different conversation. It's crazy but I think Intel is poised well to pull ahead with Meteor lake.
3:43 fsr 2 isnt built into the steam deck maybe i misunderstood your point
Im convinced SteamInput would destroy XInput if a genuinely great new ergonomic controller with more buttons came out. Its mad we still have the same controller layouts we had with the PS2. Sure There are back padals on Xinput but they only replicate existing buttons. Its seen in so many games having tap, hold and double tap commands assigned to the same buttons and highlights the need for more control.
if only I had the money to buy a Deck
For me, the Steam Deck itself IS in fact the "Steam Controller 2"... I never understood why people docked their device only to want an extra "Steam Controller 2" to play on the TV/monitor. I use a 3m USB-C male to female cable that connects into a tiny HDMI+PD dock that is connected to the TV. Works great and I also eliminated the added latency that bluetooth controllers usually come with. Sure there's a usb-c cable to the Steam Deck (just like in the good ol' days). But at least I never need to charge batteries when playing on the screen. :)
The problem with this is that using the steam deck as big as it is as a controller while also connecting it to a screen is well
You're holding a slab
Thats also connected by wire to your tv
Its great that works for you but a light actual controller sized controller would be great
My screen is way too far for that and it’s not very comfortable compared to a ps5 controller that I prefer
@@kennypowers1945 well my comment isn't targeted towards you since you are happy with a PS5 controller. I'm targeting people wanting a Steam Controller 2. There's plenty of standard controllers to use in conjunction with the Steam Deck, but non of them has all the features of the Steam Deck.
@@Snoozie Sure, but I mean it needs to be connected to TV no matter how you set it up. It's just that you run a cable to your device. I find it far less fiddly than charging wireless controllers all the time. not to mention bluetooth latency. I have no issues with the weight and width of the Steam Deck. I find it VERY comfortable, even for long gaming sessions. :)
I don’t really like farms generation, a whole bunch of input lag gets added
Legion Go os getting better?
Yeah, I often use a GuliKit KK3 Pro in Xbox mode. So yeah Steam calls it an Xbox controller. I might grab a Hori just for the heck of it when it comes here; although I don't see much of the point of it.
Come on Bill! Reach out to some of these DIY CZcamsrs (i.e. Tito from Macho Nacho Productions or Matt from DIY Perks) and throw the gauntlet down for them to DIY a steam controller 2.0. I'm sure they can do it. Let's make that happen.
Yeah, I'm right there with you Bill. I've been looking for an affordable controller with all of the features of the Steam Deck. Track pads, 4 back buttons, analog triggers, etc. It's only a matter of time when companies will wise up and we'll finally see this happening. But let's see if they launch the product with fair prices. I'm sure that we can all agree that the current state of the controller scene has been riddled with overpriced gadgets. All of this could be remedied if Valve just produced there own offering.
Hori would be stupid not to release it in the US market, I'm guessing they'll do it a few months after initial release.
Well my favorite handheld is the Legion Go to each his own
Sadly it's too big for me, even though the Steam Deck is ideal. I'd love to have the shape of the Legion Go and the weight/size of the Steam Deck or even ROG Ally.
How can computing a new frame be less computationally expensive than running at a higher framerate?
Imaging someone that is really good at guessing the correct answer to hard math problems. It takes that person much less effort guessing the answer than computing it, but is still right 99% of the time
I didn't have a good analogy in my head, but this is perfect, and I'll probably use it in the future, thanks!
Thanks to FSR 3.1 and proton 9.2, I can now play HFW on a decent, relatively stable 45+ fps.
@@arquebus7211 how's input lag?
@@solehinaznan7026never noticed it
try the gpd win mini 2024 ull sell all ur handheld and keep the mini
What about HellDivers2? 😢
I use a controller with ReWASD so Steam will still see that as keyboard keys being pushed 🙃
lol im one of the 26% that used playstation 4 and 5 controllers on my pc. how does steam track that kind of stuff? i use a controller so i dont lose my touch of playing ps5, you know if you use the same thing you never lose the feeling when hopping back and forth and also mouse is too easy to aim with.
Yep.. ally x his coming
I saw a review on Spiderman and the FG. Yes the fps are better, but the 60fps are necessary because otherwise you get a very noticable input lag. So the conclusion was ... less fps but significantly less input lag is a better gameplay than more fps but significantly more input lag.
I noticed this on games like Cyberpunk even on the PC, that FG is causing massive input lag when the minimum fps is way below 60fps. Thats why I think this technology in its current state is useless. The goal should always be reaching at least 60fps with no input lag. Not reaching 120fps or more. Thats no real benefit.
The stream controller doesn't need to be from valve, it just needs to have a trackpad
i think valve should straight up buy nexus and integrate it into their system over time.
Or next gen vr headsets
We need fsr 3.1 on Helldivers 2, that shit is so bad optimized.
Steam deck will only see big improvements on frame generation, becouse its already under 1080p so upscaling will not be that great of a performance gain
I wont touch a controller without rumble
To answer your question about if this has to be done on a game by game basis I'd advise looking into something along the lines of lossless scaling. That(as an example) is a standalone piece of software that allows frame gen for any game. And if a small company(compared to valve anyway) can do that... I am sure it is right around the corner.
I don't think Steam Deck has FSR2 (temporal upscaler) built-in and if it does, it acts like FSR1 (spatial upscaler), which runs on driver level and doesn't need integration from the game. The reason why FSR2 is better than FSR1 is because when integrating with the game, FSR2 gets motion vectors information from the game, FSR1 didn't have that.
I bought mine for $256 i got 1tb i modded it now game that use 90%gpu only use 46% gained 40+fps😅
Looks like no one took you up on the math homework 😂
I'm old enough to remember when companies would get called out for using things like frame interpolation and downscale rendering in order to cover up for weak hardware. I understand how FSR and DLSS is different. But it's not *that* different.
At some point, it’ll get good enough that we won’t be able to tell. We’re not there yet, but I don’t think it’s that far off.
Upscaling and frame interpolation will not get infinitely better. There are simply logical limitations that cannot be overcome even with the best technology. For example, when you perform an action, only the real, non-interpolated frames can reflect it. The next, say, 10 interpolated frames, on the other hand, cannot - no matter how good they look visually. The 60 fps minimum recommended by AMD is more about the resulting input latency than the visual quality of the images. The technology is really intended to saturate monitors with very high Hz counts rather than to compensate for low FPS. It won't get much better than it is now.
I love how back then "downloading fps" was a joke. Now it's a reality 😂
tell steam to fix their anti cheat issue! it sucks not being able to play the newest games
what about the asus rog ally? :)
It will help for everything.
FSR 3.1 requires game integration and is better than driver level AMFM.
Frame gen cannot be implemented in OS level, it must use internal data from a game. In other words, FSR 3.1 frame gen feature will never be in SteamDeck.
I would rather have 30 real frames per second than have 120fps where half are guessed. The reason for wanting higher framerates is for the quicker delivery of accurate information. Frame gen holds back new information to compare with the last real frame so it can guess more outdated information in the fake frame.
The result? A 60fps game presenting the illusion of being 120fps, with the same information as a ~45fps game. They may be able to counter the input latency, but that does not change the fact the real information is delayed. This is why they don't recommend frame generation on less than 60fps. The illusion shatters completely below that point.
Had to refund Spider-Man so as a warning to others playin on steamdeck do not put your graphics so ultra with 8x otherwise it bricks the game and it won’t let you go back into setting to lower it so it becomes unplayable I’m sure you could uninstall and do something in desktop files but I don’t want to figure it all out apart from that amazing game good gameplay just don’t brick it like I did
Couldn't you delete the settings file?
@@fairphoneuser9009 yeah mate I ended up having to u install and that re-downloaded the game back to factory setting for the game
Imo Lossless scaling should be ported into Proton OS ASAP
Was about to comment the developer should port it to Linux, he didn't yet cause Windows only has 1 display protocol, and Linux has Wayland,X11 and Xorg, so maintaining 4+ implementations is quite dificult, but if he only aplied to the Deck protocol (Wayland o believe) the install base would be massive, fingers crossed
Was about to comment the developer should port it to Linux, he didn't yet cause Windows only has 1 display protocol, and Linux has Wayland,X11 and Xorg, so maintaining 4+ implementations is quite dificult, but if he only aplied to the Deck protocol (Wayland o believe) the install base would be massive, fingers crossed
@@DesocupadoXtremowell technically Wayland is backward compatible with X11 so they only have to support X11
That controller not only lacks trackpads, but also lacks rumble. Personally, not interested. A proper Steam controller from Valve that incorporates all the controller elements of the Deck would be very interesting. Just please make the dpad and shoulder buttons better.
Easy to install mods = another reason to buy games on Deck over Switch 2.
10:26 I would not make that assumption at all. Xbox controllers are in expensive, very reliable reliable and the most compatible with windows. It doesn’t surprise me at all that it has that large a portion of people use the,.
Idk, all of my third party show up as Xbox.
Even my actual official Sony DS4 Occasionally flags the Xbox controller profile
Bill Nye the steam deck guy
The numbers is as follows
132million active monthly Steam players
10% is Let us guess active Steam Deck Users (not including players using controllers on a Steam Deck)
That would be over 13million (13,200,000)
Active non controller using Steam Deck players.
You’ve almost got it, but it’s 10% of 15%
Then let's do back of napkin math
10% of 10% is over 1 million (1,320,000)
Even tho Bill sometimes is not technically correct, he always means well.
FrameGen can not "insert" a frame between real ones. That would require time travel and human memory rewriting.
Rather it tries to predict the next frame based on previous ones as if the framerate would be twice as fast.
FSR 3+ and DLSS 3+ do insert frames between real ones. Not though time travel, but they hold back the already rendered 2nd frame and generate a frame in between and show it before sending the second frame to the screen, this is why it increases latency. There are frame generation technologies that do not hold back a frame and do generate predictive frames, but they're in VR mostly (because extra VR latency could make you sick), and have much more noticeable artifacts.
@@dayveeman Did not know that, thank you. TIL. I'm from VR world, yes. Reprojections are cool.
@@dayveeman Holding back a frame to insert one feels so wrong.
@@neolynxer it does feel antithetical to performance to hold a frame back. But you just know both Nvidia and AMD HAVE to be working on predictive frame generation. Both for VR games that desperately need it, but also for low latency upgrades to frame gen.
I allow them to get rid of steam controllers as long as we get a "steam deck controller".
I want everything the steam deck has on a controller. that is all i need.
Still can't afford them. FML.
Calling that thing a steam controller... Ugh... It just isn't. It's just a third party controller that officiality supports steam input. It's like a 'designed for iphone' stamp or something.
It also doesn't have any rumble support which to me makes it worthless.
As for the number of Xbox controllers on PC, I actually think the vast majority of those reported as Xbox are in fact Xbox controllers. Those controllers have been the best way to use a controller on PC since the Xbox 360. There are some good alternatives nowadays but a real Xbox controller is still the standard I think.