Whispers in the Wind | Westland Whirlwind
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- The history of aviation is full of instances where small production numbers were not necessarily indicative of a poor-performing aircraft, but were influenced by various external factors. Several well-designed and capable aircraft faced challenges that limited their production, often tied to factors beyond their inherent qualities. This was the case with the obscure and generally less known British Westland Whirlwind, a twin-engined fighter that, despite its excellent performance, failed to enter mass production.
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Sources:
M. Ovcacik and K. Susa (2002) Westland Whirlwind, 4+ Publication
D. Monday (1994) British Aircraft Of World War II, Chancellor Press
Duško N. (2008) Naoružanje Drugog Svetsko Rata-.Beograd
P. J. R. Moyes The Westland Whirlwind, Profile Publication
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Article by: Marko P
Script by: Marko P
Narrated by ABloomfield
Edited by Julesans
Sound edited by Gabe
As kid I was given this as a airfix model,and as I grew I had a massive interest in aviation and World War Two aircraft, but could never work out as to why this aircraft was never mentioned or featured in any films or documentaries, so a big thank you from me for put this what could have been an outstanding aircraft into perspective.
Westland took every Peregrine that Rolls Royce made. I understand that converting to a Merlin would require such a lengthy redesign that they would require a) a new specification, and b) about two years to work on the Mark 2. Neither were available as the Beaufighter was on the way (which negated the RR issue by fitting the manufacture's own Hercules radial).
The Mk 2 was essentially the Wyvern. Or Welkin a lot of W names.
Lovely aircraft, shame it never got the engines it deserved. Eric Brown, the legendary test pilot was very fond of it, seemed to be well suited to carrier work if I remember correctly.
Beautiful aircraft. The V12 Peregrine engine was basically half of the X24 Vulture engine also abandoned by Rolls-Royce which was used in the Avro Manchester.
When will those across the Pond realise that RAF squardons are just numbered, No25 Sqn or 25 Sqn, not allocated ordinal numbers (25th Sqn - a definite no-no.)
When will those on the east side of the pond understand that we are divided by a common language?
We do things differently here in America, please understand that, we are not you, stop trying to make it that way and understand that.
@@jackdaniel7465No, the commentary is of a British unit designation so it’s obviously correct and worth using it as the British do.
@@billyponsonby I don't care what you Brits do, I really don't, you do what you do on your little island, we do what we do here, and leave it be, you Brits always seem like you need to tell us what to do, we settled that issue way back a long time ago, so have a good day!!!
@@billyponsonby I don't care what you Brits do, I really don't, you do what you do on your little island, we do what we do here, and leave it be, you Brits always seem like you need to tell us what to do, we settled that issue way back a long time ago, so have a good day!!!
One of my alltime favorits, and the first modelplane I made. To bad it ended that way..
Was a beautiful picture in the AIRFIX catalog. Greetings from Germany.
Not only over half the film clips not Whirlwinds, most of the ones that are are reverse images.
The reverse images suggest that the owner's copyright is infringed.
you will have to make allowances for him being an American ! lol
Always liked this plane
Also, the cannons fired from 60 round drum magazines, which gave quite a short firing time (Hispano Mk.II cannons had firing rate about 600 rounds per minute, I think). If the engine problem would be solved, this one would be another to solve. 6seconds of firing time means you can spray your ammo quite quickly.
Some errata.
British squadrons are not described using a numeral followed by a 'th', 'st' or 'nd'. Thats an American naming convention. 137 squadron was called '137 Squadron'!
Dry weight of a Peregrine was about 1,140 lb for 885hp. Power to weight was about 0.77 hp/lb
A contemporary Merlin 1 - 2 weighed 1385lbs and pushed out around 1000 / 1030hp . Power to weight was lower at about 0.74. Your contention therefore that Peregrines were either underpowered or weighed 'about as much as a merlin but were significantly less powerful' is bogus.
The Peregrine was also shorter and narrower than a Merlin. Given it was being fitted into a twin engined aircraft nacelle that also had to incorporate landing gear, that had important design advantages.
The engineering reasons for choosing the Peregrine were sound enough tbh. Westland could of course not have known how successful the Merlin would later be, or that the Peregrine would not be developed further.
You're right, however we had a few anomalies like 111 Sqn, was always known as Treble One? Can't think of any others though other than a few that had commonly used nicknames like "Tatty Ton" for 100 Sqn. I won't tell you what we called 617 when I worked on Vulcans.
Merlins would also be prioritised for single-seat fighters, so using merlins in addition to magnesium alloys would make it unattractive for the RAF
@@charlesc.9012also needed for the Whitley (from the Mk.IV onwards) and Halifax (from the Mk.I onwards until the radial engined versions came along) bomber.
A very thorough video about this aircraft can be found on Ed Nash’s Military Matters.
10:36 The 137th Airlift Squadron is a unit of the New York Air National Guard 105th Airlift Wing located at Stewart Air National Guard Base, Newburgh, New York. The 137th is equipped with the C-17A Globemaster III. The squadron was originally formed as the 483rd Bombardment Squadron (Dive) at Hunter Army Airfield, Georgia, as a Third Air Force Operational Training Unit, equipped with Douglas A-24 Banshee dive bombers.
When I was a young lad I loved assembling Airfix kits and when I had enough spending money I was always attracted to the unusual ones especially if it looked like there was more to assemble, the Whirlwind was one of my early kits along with the Boulton Paul Defiant as it had a turret behind the pilots cockpit. I spent very many hours trying to get them right but with hindsight the kits were sub par, I would drive my parents to despair asking for these kits....happy days.
A reasonable representation of the basic aspects of the Whirlwind. The squadron patch you used for 137 Squadron RAF is totally incorrect though. Lift your game when researching these things!
I think the biggest difference between the Hurricanes/Spitfires/Beaufighter night fighters (first fitted with Merlins) was that these were used as defensive weapons, whereas the Whirlwind rather was a good offensive weapons platform. At the time the RAF needed the former more than the latter.
Still, I think the Whirlwind is unique in the sense that it was the first RAF fighter aircraft providing such a good view in all directions. All-round-vision bubble canopies in Typhoons, Tempests and Spitfires were still a long way to come.
When genius and ingenuity meets bureaucracy, Whirlwind had to fight for everything they got from the Air Ministry. This plane had the potential to be the R.A.F's equivalent of the U.S.A's P-38 Lighting.
An absolute beauty of an airplane, just too bad Rolls Royce didn't have the time and extra engineering staff to put onto the Peregrine although I have also heard a propeller change between DeHavilland and Rotol was the main cause of the performance problems. But when your powerplant is abandoned that is about it.
they could have used Allison V12, best engines for low altitude and ground attack airplanes. The Allisons were producing 1800HP in 1942, and 2200HP in 1944. UK, US, and ANZAC pilots were all documented operating the Allisons at these power levels. And the Allison engines were 300lb lighter each than the Merlin, and had a smaller frontal area, resulting in lower airframe drag.
@SoloRenegade Wasn't especially a power problem, and the P38's, P39's and P40's were using all of the V1710's that were coming off GM's production lines. Had it been a power problem and the need was really there Merlin engines could have been easily substituted, but then you run into they could build 2 Hurricanes or Spitfires with those same engines, and they were more important than a ground pounder at that point.
@@300guy Allison had untapped capacity to turn out more engines, and license building engines was always an option.
Colt didn't build every 1911.
Springfield didn't build every M1.
Consolidated didn't build every B-24.
etc.
"Had it been a power problem and the need was really there Merlin engines could have been easily substituted"
but the allison was the superior low level engine by far. Cheaper, lighter, smaller, more HP, fewer farts, more reliable, more fuel efficient, easier to work on, more resistant to damage....
"but then you run into they could build 2 Hurricanes or Spitfires with those same engines, and they were more important than a ground pounder at that point."
Exactly, and this was a problem with the P-38 and other aircraft. they consumed too many engines and material performing roles cheaper and less "greedy" single engine designs were performing (often times even better than the twins).
It was also too difficult to make, using magnesium alloys in 1940 was not conducive to mass production, and Hurricanes were the better choice for the roles needed because of simpler maintenance, quicker production and easier engine management in combat
This video was top notch stuff.
But I have an additional area that perhaps should be in here. The area of prop/engine reliability and that back story is quite important when telling the story of the type. The problems happened with in service models, but was not present in the pre-production models. These used different props. The 'bad engine' stories should actually be re-considered as 'bad props'.
For the size of the small production run, and the somewhat limited development of the type, the 114 did a fair amount of work and were a pain in the arse for the Germans.
Interesting fact for me as Czech is that despite its scarcity, the pilots of Czech squadrons in RAF (namely 313 and i think at least 310 too) often flown as cover for Whirleys from 263 sq., including Cherborough raid.
I wonder if Westland ever considered fitting a suitable radial engine as an upgrade?
Indeed. The Bristol Hercules used on the Stirling & Beaufighter could have been considered.
Thank you.
Excellent stuff bro
A fascinating and effective fighter. However Ive heard differing accounts of the problems with the engines namely that either the Peregrine was at fault or the problems were caused by the propellers, not the engine. Westland did confirm to the Air Ministry in 1942 that they were able to install the Rolls Royce Merlin but for whatever reason it was not proceeded with. A great video.
I think its because spitfires and hurricanes needed the merlin engines more badly. You also get 2 Spitfires up and running in comparison of 1 Whirlwind using 2 Same engines which may end up a flop.
Why is there so much film of aircraft that aren't Whirlwinds?
Probably because there's so little around that is!
@@tobyrobson2939 For now!
All of the whirlwind issues could have been fixed. Rolls Royce sent an engineer to westland and redesigned air intake and radiator but wetland doesn't appear to have responded. The other problem was with the correct propellers not being supplied causing engines over revving, leading to short engine life and failure. A sad end to a fine aircraft.
Better looking than the Spitfire.
The Merlin weighed about the same as the lower powered Peregrine so it should have been upgraded and would have been very successful especially if the guns were given more ammo. 6 seconds per sortie should have been increased enormously
wow, legendary plane
Great doco'. Great film footage too. Imagine if the Whirlpool had twin Merlin's! WTF!
Looks like an excellent gun platform was devalued by having outdated engines. A missed opportunity.
Why were many of the flying shot images reversed left to right so that all the lettering is back to front? Does it really make any difference which way across the screen the aircraft fly?
To avoid CZcams's poor algorithms from claiming copyright of footage that is in the public domain, but that various scam companies claim to own.
One of my favorite WW2 aircraft. Too bad it didn’t receive the more powerful engines
6.55 How small were those props ?
DeHavilland Hornet ??
It's a pity they didn't go for the Merlin during design. The plane would have been fantastic.
It looks like a disabled Me 262
All airplanes where scrapped? That's a shame...😢
I wonder why they bothered with it when the Mosquito did everything promised by the Whirlwind and more. The Air Ministry was right to abandon it. Even if the problems were fixed, there is nothing it can do that the Mosquito and Beaufighter cannot already do.
The callendar.
2:10 The words FUCK ME! spring to mind, seeing a plane approach low and fast like that.
i guess the allies never really had a need for the heavy fighter category
4 20mm guns became fairly common, equivalent shell weight to 16 .50 cals or 70 .303s. Seen in the Typhoon and Tempest singles and the Meteor, Beaufighter and Mosquito twins.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 but ...
a) those were never particularly common, and not primarily fighters
b) the amis stuck with the 50 cals
c) the main purpose of a :heavy" fighter is to attack large armoured targets i.e. heavy bombers, which the germans didn't use.
d) the whirlwind was an early war fighter, and became obsolete ... as described in the video
@@victorfinberg8595 The Americans never upped their fighter firepower to ‘devastating’, in Korea they found themselves under armed.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 where are we going with this? all i'm saying the whirlwind was sidelined because it was not considered important, and there were good reasons
I can only Imagine this with a pair of 1400+HP Merlin's instead of the 800HP peregrines, especially as the peregrine equipped fighters could already do 360MPH. Pity it would have taken so long to get that done.
With better engines, this might well have been the British equivalent of the American P-38 Lightning.
Faint aspiration, try Hornet.
This plane could have changed history ...
I was one of the first to comment
Are you sure, I did this morning
Lovely aircraft, bad engine.Based on the Kestrel I believe.
Some say the late night tinkering on the Kestral engines lead to the name of a famous 70s/80s synthpop band, Kestral Manoeuvers in the Dark... although a more likely culprit would be the Miles Kestral, used for flying training during ww2.
I was torn between the two explanations until a hike in the 1990s through the Fish River Canyon in Namibia offered a third origin.
Seasoned hikers prepare their tents first before relaxing, but the youngsters play around until they learn their lesson... being in a deep canyon, the sun sets earlier than usual, of course, so while myself and my 2 best friends were returning from a nice walk in the dark, we heard strange curses and activity from the teenaged boys area.
They were assembling their Kestral tent in the dark.
Graham said to us, "listen... Kestral manoeuvers in the dark..."
That was the first and only joke Gray ever spoke to my knowledge, and one of the funniest I've ever heard.
I reminded Gray of his joke last year, but he didn't even remember making it!
Anyway, Kestral tents have been around since the 70s at least, so could be the best reason for a pop groups name.
No, I don't think a band would name itself after a euphemism for sexual acts at night... I mean, why would they do that?
😂
A rubbish concept, use utterly obsolete engines to get more return out of the R R Kestrel, which had ONLY been in use since 1926.
The Russians loved them
Pity they never used them
An incredible comment, outstanding in its field.
the plane that could do that and more and faster was the mosquito