A gear for a certain automatic winding mechanism eventually gets it's teeth ground off. The parts are long discontinued, so I'm cutting 40 of these to be mounted on the original pinions.
Having watched hundreds of hours of watch repair videos, and starting to teach myself machining, I’d always been intrigued how so many pocket watches were produced in the 1800’s to such a high precision - without a cnc or micrometer… I now have a better understanding of both the skill and artistry that watch production required
I've been wondering how this is done for years! I've finally found a video of someone doing it, and the answer as I guessed is "with a great deal of care and patience". No shortcuts for this work, just an experienced hand and a trusted process.
This is truly amazing. I wish I had the patients to do this type of work, so I'll just stick with larger gears, lol. Thanks for sharing your skills. It's really cool.
Just fantastic. Well done. Three hundred years of experience yields some amazing results in the hands of a craftsman. Love the free hand graver work. Thanks. You made my morning.
It’s so amazing to see a wheel made by hand for a watch, I would love to learn but I can’t even imagine the price of the machines needed to make these parts
i need new gears because my mastercrafters swing clock gears worn out, i think a lot of people need the gears for this clock, you are very professional, i wish i had the machine and had the knowledge how to make the gears.
Great video, thank you for uploading! Could you tell us also which module these wheels were? With the given OD and the count of teeth, I would have guessed something around 0.10-0.11, is that correct?
I’ve been struggling my way through watchmaking by George Daniels, he explains the process in extreme detail so since you clearly have experience doing this I was wondering, he talks heavily about the addendums, dedendums and so forth, is knowing all this really really necessary or is it simpler in practice? Can I just go buy a constant profile cutter or fly cutter that’s a certain size and use it? Thanks sorry it’s longwinded lol
When you dive into the science/mechanics of gearing, it can get a bit overwhelming. It's all good to know and understand, but not necessary to start cutting. In time, as you practice, it all will make more sense. Before I began gear cutting years ago I asked a more experienced watchmaker what the secret was to gear cutting. His answer was the best piece of advice I have ever received regarding anything. "Just do it. Take what you have and experiment." I still have in one of my drawers a little baggie of those early attempts. If you don't have any cutters, you might purchase used ones on eBay or new ones though other suppliers. Or you could make fly cutters. I discuss fly cutters in my second video on cutting an internal gear (see my channel). A good start with fly cutters is to take an existing gear and make a cutter to match the tooth profile. Also start with pocket watch sized gears. As you become more experienced and comfortable you can go smaller. Good luck to you. You will make mistakes, but that is part of learning.
@@jackroom1261 @Jack Room pp thornton sell cutters of any module for both wheels and pinions. they will custom make whatever you want too. realistically you need to draw the wheels somehow. you end up in the strange situation where you need to know the center distances to draw the pitch circle but you cant really know the true center distances without the actual wheels. in reality you should know your gear train count, and the maximum size of your barrel. try and find a module for that wheel and the rest of the train will follow. you can then find and plot the true center distances once the wheels and pinions are made. this method allows for any slight variety in manufacture. honestly though the swiss method of just CAD it all and then just make it to tolerance (in terms of center distances) also works honestly. there are also some books out there that are far better than Daniels at explaining things for all his talents laying out books was not one. if you want a technical swiss aproach The Theory of Horology is the swiss industry standard. If you want well explained and great books try getting your hands on archie perkins fantastic set of books Antique Watch Restoration 1-3.
So you basically eyeball it when cutting the tooth for the gears? Thats some incredible precision, or does the lathe measure for you on each turn of a new tooth?
That would be impossible to eyeball it - there must be some lock on the lathe wheel for each angle - but he didn't explain it. What about the wheels with 5 spokes?
A list of all the tools I have? No, but I can start adding a list of tools I use in a given video. Did you see something in particular you had a question about?
Hey mate. How much does one of those cost? So much work... Do you make them only for order or do you have more ready to be shiped. Are they standart sizes or every brand has its own size. Are they special metal or what? How many hour of work for this bach
PP Thornton in England makes cutters all sizes. ppthornton.com/ There are only a couple companies in the world that still make and sell cycloidal gear cutters to my knowledge, can't think of the other one.
This type of Module cutters or hob cutters for watch gear making are very expensive. Is there any other cheap method of making gears? How they do it in 1800s??
Multiple sources, ebay, or buying out a retiring watchmaker, or from other watchmakers or hobbyists. It depends on if you have a lot of money to spend or a little, if you want to purchase it all at once or a bit at a time. If there is a local watch or clock collector club in your area, I encourage you to be active in it.
What about the spokes? You skipped making spokes. :-) I wonder how that would be done. Maybe punching them in two separate steps? first the cutouts then the outer diameter? It would have been interesting to see how you do the indexing. Some total shot of the setup for size comparison would be impressive.
The end cost to the customer would have been many times more with spokes as I don't have a die to punch them out. All would have had to been hand filed out. As this gear was for the automatic portion of a watch, I didn't think that lightening the weight of the wheel was as important as if it was a gear in the time train.
Thanks for this video! Why are you not using a hobber for that? I think that's a very interesting topic. Some people are hobbing using microcontrollers. I'm working on getting the tools together in order to make small spur gears. I hope I won't fail with too many parts. Initially I also thought about cutting teeth one by one but it has the disadvantage that it needs gear cutters which match the amount of teeth. While the hobber can just run over all sizes.
Thanks for watching and your question. If I understand correctly hobbing requires a special machine. I am only equipped with the standard 8mm watchmakers lathe and choose to use only that. Likewise you mention microcontrollers which are used in computer aided machining. All my lathe and milling work is manual. This is no critique of how others may make parts. I simply have chosen this way.
Are you certain that you can hob a cycloidal gear? I know it’s done with involute gears, but I’ve never seen it done with epicycloidal/hypocycloidal gearing.
@@johnparsons9084 Disclaimer to my post I'm also new to hobbing and still waiting for some parts to arrive, I can be pretty wrong with everything in that area.
As a hobbiest building his first clock, I’m no expert either. But clocks and watches use a type of gearing (cycloidal) that is used in very few other applications. The type of gearing you alluded to (involute) is not well suited to clocks and watches because involute gears create considerably more friction through a sliding action of the intermeshing teeth. Cycloidal gears do not have this drawback, however they require very exact depthing....that is, distancing between centers. The reason I mention this is that the very quality that allows involute gears to work at nearly any distance between centers (provided the teeth are meshing) also allows them to be cut with a hob. If you’re interest in gearing is pretty much anything but clock or watchmaking, involute gears are far less difficult to deal with.
Aw I wish he showed how he rotated the gears while cutting the teeth. Is it done by eye? There has to be a mechanism that times the spacing between right? Or did I miss something?
@@repivot2253 Thank you so much! I figured such delicate work had to have an index of some sort. Even the slightest error would throw off the whole mechanism right?
4:10 - That would be impossible to eyeball it - there must be some lock on the lathe wheel for each angle - but you didn't explain it? What about the cog wheels with 5 spokes?
Find one on ebay or work the network of other watchmakers or tool dealers & collectors. The rounding up tool is sometimes called a topping tool. Make sure the cutters are in good condition.
WOWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!! So for me it's "Having "started" to watch watch repair videos", "I've been wondering how this is done", hahahaaha. Beautiful work and beautifully photographed video. Thanks you!!!!!!!!! How much does one gear cost?
instead of glueing them together, why not screw them together? Make a hole with a square (or something) side (you know what I mean, like a key hole). make something fit this hole and make a threaded hole in the piece connected to the lathe and screw it in.
I have made and used a threaded holder similar to what you describe. In the end glue is quicker/easier and more secure. The separate wheels won't shift during the cutting process.
Actually they're for the automatic mechanism. That particular model was such that the teeth were ground down with use, a bad design. Now there are no available spare parts.
now, cross them out to make a true 1:1 reproduction! just kidding! im sure theres a trick to it just like the gang cutting of the teeth, but if it works, it works. great job!
Having watched hundreds of hours of watch repair videos, and starting to teach myself machining, I’d always been intrigued how so many pocket watches were produced in the 1800’s to such a high precision - without a cnc or micrometer… I now have a better understanding of both the skill and artistry that watch production required
and how hairsprings were made sir ?
I've been wondering how this is done for years! I've finally found a video of someone doing it, and the answer as I guessed is "with a great deal of care and patience". No shortcuts for this work, just an experienced hand and a trusted process.
I could watch this all day
This is a great video! Fascinating! Look how hard the process is, those small pieces are made to perfection. Thanks for sharing this video 👌👏
Great work, such a wonderful testament to learning, perseverance and skill. You will always have the respect of those who care about such qualities.
Respect to the people who work in this painstaking job!
Omg wow! This is amazing!
Thank you so much for capturing the process with such great quality video!
This is truly amazing. I wish I had the patients to do this type of work, so I'll just stick with larger gears, lol. Thanks for sharing your skills. It's really cool.
Just fantastic. Well done. Three hundred years of experience yields some amazing results in the hands of a craftsman. Love the free hand graver work. Thanks. You made my morning.
Thanks for watching.
@@repivot2253 how do you locate the center when you start the hole on the lathe?
Wow.... great to see old skills being kept alive
Wow! This was great for me to see. Thank you for giving me this look at how they are made.
OMG, what a great video! Repivot22 is my new favorite channel!
I typed in; "how tiny watch parts are made" ! I was expecting to see machinery turning them out by the hundreds. Thanks for the great video!
Incredible workmanship!!
This was amazing! I’ve always wondered how and now I know. Thank you very much!
Magnificent procedure and an excellent result.
It’s so amazing to see a wheel made by hand for a watch, I would love to learn but I can’t even imagine the price of the machines needed to make these parts
Professional works! I like your style
A lot of patience demonstrated
Why i did'nt see until now 😕. You blwoing my mind 🙃 . You working great 👏👏👏👌👍
i need new gears because my mastercrafters swing clock gears worn out, i think a lot of people need the gears for this clock, you are very professional, i wish i had the machine and had the knowledge how to make the gears.
About how big are these gears (in millimeters)?
Amazing! I always wanted to know how this was accomplished!
Amazing precision!
Great video, thank you for uploading! Could you tell us also which module these wheels were? With the given OD and the count of teeth, I would have guessed something around 0.10-0.11, is that correct?
Amazing work
I wish there is a guy like you who can make this custome gear ⚙️, you are so amazing
There is a guy like me, ... me!
@@repivot2253 which country are you in?
@@theanalogguy1988 USA, Illinois.
@@repivot2253 are you saying people could contact you with something like a SOLIDWORKS design and have it machined?
Super example! Dude! You are just too cool!
How do they do the skeletonised ones like you are replacing? A laser cutter or a more complex punch? Thanks for the upload and info
Great video! I was surprised to see how much run out there was on the tooth cutting operation @ 4:08
Nicely done
hand up! good work.best regards
Amazing ! BRAVO !!
Nice work
Amazing work, how are the cut outs done in the spoked gears? Punch? Saw?
In factories, by punch. In an independent shop like mine, either by cutting and filing or I have a few sizes of pre-spoked wheel blanks.
Very good!
intresting gear making proces .
9:35 i like the coin
Thanks Sir for your videos, where can i buy such a small cutters for watchmaking gears? It will help me a lot 🙏🏻
I’ve been struggling my way through watchmaking by George Daniels, he explains the process in extreme detail so since you clearly have experience doing this I was wondering, he talks heavily about the addendums, dedendums and so forth, is knowing all this really really necessary or is it simpler in practice? Can I just go buy a constant profile cutter or fly cutter that’s a certain size and use it? Thanks sorry it’s longwinded lol
When you dive into the science/mechanics of gearing, it can get a bit overwhelming. It's all good to know and understand, but not necessary to start cutting. In time, as you practice, it all will make more sense.
Before I began gear cutting years ago I asked a more experienced watchmaker what the secret was to gear cutting. His answer was the best piece of advice I have ever received regarding anything. "Just do it. Take what you have and experiment." I still have in one of my drawers a little baggie of those early attempts.
If you don't have any cutters, you might purchase used ones on eBay or new ones though other suppliers.
Or you could make fly cutters. I discuss fly cutters in my second video on cutting an internal gear (see my channel). A good start with fly cutters is to take an existing gear and make a cutter to match the tooth profile. Also start with pocket watch sized gears. As you become more experienced and comfortable you can go smaller.
Good luck to you. You will make mistakes, but that is part of learning.
@@repivot2253 thank you that was really helpful! I really appreciate it 😊
@@jackroom1261 @Jack Room pp thornton sell cutters of any module for both wheels and pinions. they will custom make whatever you want too. realistically you need to draw the wheels somehow. you end up in the strange situation where you need to know the center distances to draw the pitch circle but you cant really know the true center distances without the actual wheels. in reality you should know your gear train count, and the maximum size of your barrel. try and find a module for that wheel and the rest of the train will follow. you can then find and plot the true center distances once the wheels and pinions are made. this method allows for any slight variety in manufacture.
honestly though the swiss method of just CAD it all and then just make it to tolerance (in terms of center distances) also works honestly.
there are also some books out there that are far better than Daniels at explaining things for all his talents laying out books was not one. if you want a technical swiss aproach The Theory of Horology is the swiss industry standard. If you want well explained and great books try getting your hands on archie perkins fantastic set of books Antique Watch Restoration 1-3.
@@felixarbable thank you, that was a really helpful bit of info !! :)
What is the module size of a gear cutter you are using herе?
Fascinating
good afternoon, what is the cutter module you are using?
I'm using an old cutter whose number doesn't coordinate with module, so I can't say with exactness.
What does that giant balance wheel go on?
Amazing.
I would go insane doing this.
can you tell me where i can buy the gear cutter, please ?
So you basically eyeball it when cutting the tooth for the gears? Thats some incredible precision, or does the lathe measure for you on each turn of a new tooth?
That would be impossible to eyeball it -
there must be some lock on the lathe wheel for each angle -
but he didn't explain it.
What about the wheels with 5 spokes?
I love your work. You don't happen to have a list of your tools by any chance?
A list of all the tools I have? No, but I can start adding a list of tools I use in a given video. Did you see something in particular you had a question about?
@@repivot2253 Thanks! I'd be interested knowing what lathe you have and different accessories and cutters for gear making.
I intend on doing a video specifically on my gear cutting set up. Stay tuned.
Can someone suggest a place to buy cutters for wheels and pinions cutting for wrist watches for a lathe setup at a reasonable price?
Where are you located?
Hey mate. How much does one of those cost? So much work... Do you make them only for order or do you have more ready to be shiped. Are they standart sizes or every brand has its own size. Are they special metal or what? How many hour of work for this bach
Great work. How are you indexing the wheels after each tooth cut? Also, did you end up crossing them out?
Amazing
Where could i find a gear cutter that small. all ive found was down to .3 module im looking for around .1
Honestly, I bought all my cutters used. All are older, not modern marked with the module.
PP Thornton in England makes cutters all sizes. ppthornton.com/
There are only a couple companies in the world that still make and sell cycloidal gear cutters to my knowledge, can't think of the other one.
I did wonder how it was done
Now I know how they are made...!!
Would have liked to see how the spokes were formed.
Tiny tiny gears. Ultimately the customer wouldn't have paid for that amount of work which it would have required.
Hello, I have a watch which I have not managed to get a wheel, you could help me?
Perhaps. Lets talk. Repivot22@gmail.com
This type of Module cutters or hob cutters for watch gear making are very expensive. Is there any other cheap method of making gears? How they do it in 1800s??
Hi, What Module are you using?
9:23 thanks, now i can make one of those by its real size
Can I know where to buy all tools for starting watch making?
Multiple sources, ebay, or buying out a retiring watchmaker, or from other watchmakers or hobbyists. It depends on if you have a lot of money to spend or a little, if you want to purchase it all at once or a bit at a time. If there is a local watch or clock collector club in your area, I encourage you to be active in it.
What about the spokes? You skipped making spokes. :-) I wonder how that would be done. Maybe punching them in two separate steps? first the cutouts then the outer diameter?
It would have been interesting to see how you do the indexing. Some total shot of the setup for size comparison would be impressive.
The end cost to the customer would have been many times more with spokes as I don't have a die to punch them out. All would have had to been hand filed out. As this gear was for the automatic portion of a watch, I didn't think that lightening the weight of the wheel was as important as if it was a gear in the time train.
Factories had dies which could punch out spokes en mass. I'm not there yet.
Thanks for this video!
Why are you not using a hobber for that? I think that's a very interesting topic. Some people are hobbing using microcontrollers. I'm working on getting the tools together in order to make small spur gears. I hope I won't fail with too many parts.
Initially I also thought about cutting teeth one by one but it has the disadvantage that it needs gear cutters which match the amount of teeth. While the hobber can just run over all sizes.
Thanks for watching and your question. If I understand correctly hobbing requires a special machine. I am only equipped with the standard 8mm watchmakers lathe and choose to use only that. Likewise you mention microcontrollers which are used in computer aided machining. All my lathe and milling work is manual. This is no critique of how others may make parts. I simply have chosen this way.
Are you certain that you can hob a cycloidal gear? I know it’s done with involute gears, but I’ve never seen it done with epicycloidal/hypocycloidal gearing.
@@johnparsons9084 Disclaimer to my post I'm also new to hobbing and still waiting for some parts to arrive, I can be pretty wrong with everything in that area.
As a hobbiest building his first clock, I’m no expert either. But clocks and watches use a type of gearing (cycloidal) that is used in very few other applications. The type of gearing you alluded to (involute) is not well suited to clocks and watches because involute gears create considerably more friction through a sliding action of the intermeshing teeth. Cycloidal gears do not have this drawback, however they require very exact depthing....that is, distancing between centers. The reason I mention this is that the very quality that allows involute gears to work at nearly any distance between centers (provided the teeth are meshing) also allows them to be cut with a hob. If you’re interest in gearing is pretty much anything but clock or watchmaking, involute gears are far less difficult to deal with.
@@johnparsons9084 Thanks for your clarification!
Que Arte !!
Donde compro esa rueda para hacer los dientes es que necesito hacer ruedas, 😊 para mis relojitos
Aw I wish he showed how he rotated the gears while cutting the teeth. Is it done by eye? There has to be a mechanism that times the spacing between right? Or did I miss something?
An index plate mounted on the back of the headstock. I will eventually post a video of my gearcutting set up.
@@repivot2253 Thank you so much! I figured such delicate work had to have an index of some sort. Even the slightest error would throw off the whole mechanism right?
4:10 - That would be impossible to eyeball it -
there must be some lock on the lathe wheel for each angle -
but you didn't explain it?
What about the cog wheels with 5 spokes?
Do You Polish the Gear Teeth??
No. I'm not aware of anyone who does that except occasionally on steel gears.
👍👍👍
Isn´t there a more industrial way of making gears???
Yes there is. This is repair and restoration work. One off batches for specific watches. Or for hand making a watch from scratch.
Where can you get the threaded cutter?
Threaded cutter? Do you mean rounding up tool?
@@repivot2253 yes
Find one on ebay or work the network of other watchmakers or tool dealers & collectors. The rounding up tool is sometimes called a topping tool. Make sure the cutters are in good condition.
WOWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!! So for me it's "Having "started" to watch watch repair videos", "I've been wondering how this is done", hahahaaha. Beautiful work and beautifully photographed video. Thanks you!!!!!!!!! How much does one gear cost?
I gave this customer a break on the per gear cost because I made so many at once. But my normal price starts at $250.
@@repivot2253 WOWW!!! fascinating!!! thanks and all the best!!!
Wow toll, Grüsse aus Berlin.
instead of glueing them together, why not screw them together? Make a hole with a square (or something) side (you know what I mean, like a key hole). make something fit this hole and make a threaded hole in the piece connected to the lathe and screw it in.
I have made and used a threaded holder similar to what you describe. In the end glue is quicker/easier and more secure. The separate wheels won't shift during the cutting process.
Hachoo!
You didn’t show how you punched out for the spokes.
👍⚘
Why so many third wheels
Actually they're for the automatic mechanism. That particular model was such that the teeth were ground down with use, a bad design. Now there are no available spare parts.
Obviously for low cost watches. they are pretty rough
They are functional. To give them a better finish would have increased the price substantially. The customer had a budget to stick to.
İ saw ağacın it is best gear mAking video in CZcams
now, cross them out to make a true 1:1 reproduction!
just kidding! im sure theres a trick to it just like the gang cutting of the teeth, but if it works, it works. great job!
I thought watch making is highly accurate but it looks like they eyeball everything.
As one grows with experience in does amaze me how much you can eyeball. .01mm-.02mm can be seen with magnification.
That is for POCKET WATCHES, NOT FOR WRIST WATCHES !
I made them. I assure you they are for wrist watches.
You kind of missed a few steps.