Your videos are simply superb. Having been a columnist for an audio and music magazine for over 20 years and also having a CZcams channel myself, I can tell you that the talking parts of your videos are so real and emotional that they truly bring me back to my articles. But you do it on camera! And the performance sections of your videos are the icing on the cake. You are a very talented musician, producer and story teller!
That’s so kind! Thank you very much indeed! I’m deep into editing the next one and it’s hard to keep up with comments but I’ve just seen the notification and this is a very supportive comment to start the day with :) Who did you write for?
@@DistortThePreamp my pleasure! I wrote for a Brazilian magazine called Audio, Música & Tecnologia. It was the biggest publication of its kind for decades but sadly they’re no longer being published. I engineered, mixed, mastered and synth programmed quite a few albums through life and your videos have been really inspiring. Looking forward to the next ones. Best! Enrico De Paoli
One of the most inspirational music tech videos I’ve ever seen. As a 49 year old who has tinkered with music production for the best part of 25 years you have reignited a flame in me to get back into it and explore the sounds of the music and eras I love. It helps that I chose Bizarre Love Triangle to be played at my wedding as it is my favourite song by God’s Own Backing Band (trademark Melody Maker 1993) New Order
Thank you so much for such a fantastic comment! I’m so pleased that you like the video, and it would be amazing if it played a small role in getting you back into music. I am a huge believer in the power of music and music making to make people’s lives better, and there is no better decade than the 80s. I hadn’t heard the monicker “God’s Own Backing Band”! It’s funny because it’s true.
I don't know why I'm watching this. I once spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours making synth music in my 20s in the 2000s. I married, have family and I feel like that life has long passed me by. I guess I can live vicariously through you guys who kept at it.
Never too late to pick up a few Behringer synths for not a lot and go back to it. Start with a second hand Model D, a TD3, an RD8 and a Keystep pro and you’re up and running!
@Sharkpuss I bought a Juno 106 (among about 15 other 80s and analog synths) in 2008 for $300, sold it for $600 to Jay Z two years later. I just looked at the price and a tear almost came to my eye. Lol. I'm thinking about it. The passion is there. It's just the time...50 hour work week inspecting welds with two young kids at home makes it very hard. This was all my choice of course and don't regret kids at all but the love for the art is still there.
@Sharkpuss It's not so much the price, I just have so little time for anything. Also, the idea I could ever make a living at it picking it up again in my 40s is so ridiculous it's depressing. I guess it's a bit of a nostalgic midlife crisis getting to me, Lol. I'm thoroughly enjoying seeing other people doing so much with the art though, I just feel left out or left behind. I may pick up a fee pieces of gear though and just make some music for myself. My kids might get into it when they're older.
The main takeaway from this video for those that dont have half an hour is: a good gating effect needs an attack&release which are super fast and the side-chain path has a filter. thats it!
@@aradderunfortunately it won’t because it won’t make the gating distortion effect that the drawmer did, it created extra clicks and bumps to the signal that it was gating due to rise time of the gate opening and a sort of door closing sound when the gate closed again, this I believe came as side effect of the electronics special to the drawmer gates, this is why it had to be a drawmer, possibly by not being the most expensive piece of equipment it was actually a limitation , but as it was back then you took „mistakes“ or „limitations“ and made them a part of the sound, I have worked with many other manufacturers of gates and they are in effect very transparent, and therefore do not give you the drawmer clicks and bumps, it was for example put, you would think unnecessarily, on drum machine kicks to give them that edge and lift to the initial impulse and by manipulating hold and release completely change the character, I suppose it’s that famous analog non linearity and distortion that are possibly technical limitations but very useful ones…
Haha - that’s some Level 19 Fortune Telling! It’s such a good track though. As is most of their stuff from around that period. I can’t imagine what it must have been like in the band though - I gather Stephen was programming all day with the producer (also Stephen) while the others were in the pool.
Great video. Really pleased that you've unlocked more of the magic of this unit :) Still in production, but as you say, there are a LOT out there on ebay. We're still able to service and repair any tired units too. We also make a few other products that might be of interest... :)
This video made my day! The 80s was a special time. Now understanding this technique on a song I have forever loved- it is much appreciated. Thank you.
It really was a special time. I’m planning to make a lot of videos which try to unpack why the pop songs from that era are lasting so well. There are so many factors which aren’t even specifically to do with music - limited studio time, producers going independent, financial pressure to have a hit - so hopefully this is going to be a fun ride! Thanks for watching. It’s very much appreciated.
Try this out = Get your favourite Electric Guitar and an Ebow and play a long drawn-out part on the Guitar using the Ebow and record two takes. Then pan each take hard left & right then reverse the recordings of the two parts and then insert the Drawmer Gate over the stereo pair. When you hear the result you will feel like the choir of Angles that speak for God are speaking to you.
Haha - you’ve foreshadowed one of the things I’m going to show in another video I’m prepping for later in the year all about gating guitars! I’m currently trying to get my Ebow fixed - the blue light has stopped turning on - but what you’re describing is a wonderful effect.
Great! You’ve talked about the pet shop boys, new order, Duran Duran Vince Clarke and the smiths, now I just need the cure and OMD. Absolutely love your thorough videos on my favorite bands
Awesome! There’s a video coming that’s about a very interesting (and forgotten) production technique, and the example is indeed a well-known OMD track. I’ve even talked to the producer to double-check the technique. Videos featuring techniques used by bands like The Cure will probably come when the channel enters ‘Phase 2’ and I start to talk about sounds that aren’t made by synths ;) I promise you, this is all coming. Remember this channel is only just past being three months old! (I can hardly believe it myself)
This is amazing! I have always wanted to capture the emotion of gated chords and failed because of it sounding too clinical. Thanks so much for this video!
So pleased you like it! Your experience is exactly the same as mine - there’s probably more magic in the Drawmers that the points I mention in the bideo( for example the preamps, some slight distortion on the waveforms when the attack kicks in, and the fact the two sides of the stereo are set slightly differently) but they really do sound amazing! Thank you for watching and commenting - I really appreciate it.
That’s absolutely true. I would probably do that at the mix stage because I’ve run into trouble before when I tracked sounds with slow sweeps and then had to either do a drop in or dupe the part. But slow sweeps are lovely on this sort of thing…
As a child of the 80s (79 born) this sound is ingrained in my consciousness. Really love it. Great video. Thanks. We also seem to have started at the same time with the same version of Ableton. Crikey not far off twenty years now and I'm still no " Power User. " Best regards. PK
So glad you like the video! I pretty much became a power user and even ended up writing my own Max4Live devices but then went over to the dark side with another DAW that’s pretty much the opposite of Ableton. So now I track in that, process midi in Ableton, but do all my production in a hardware sequencer. I find the latter so refreshing and extremely fast, which you probably saw in the video. It’s also not that expensive when you consider that, unlike plugins, the gear probably retains its value. But you def need a lot more space and, sometimes, a bit more patience - nothing like staring at a rack wondering why you can’t hear anything to get you to question your choices ;) Thank you so much for watching, and for the comment.
@@DistortThePreamp The Dark Side of DAWS hmm? I won't ask. Are you familiar with the band Ozric Tentacles? I've been a major fan for about 30 years although sadly their last few efforts have been underwhelming. I mention them because they make great use of ethereal, mesmerising gated pads, and swirling synth lines. I've been trying to get close to the sound for yonks but it's beyond my capabilities I think. If you don't know them please have a listen to any of their pre-2000s work. I think you'd enjoy it.
Oh yes, I (obv) know Ozric Tentacles! Very interesting sound. Once this channel settles down I’ll be expanding beyond synths into guitar textures so watch this space :)
Oh wow -- is that the famous CZcams algorithm at work, or were you searching for something? Really great that you found it! Thanks for watching, and really appreciate the comment!
Great video. You got it at the end. Sounds beautiful. I can understand you very well. The re are some things in music or any other art stuff that haunt you for decades until you get answers how it was done.
Thanks for making this video. I own 2 Drawmer Ds201 and 1 Drawmer mx40 gates. They are fantastic. Not as useful as they used to be at one time but there's a reason they are racked up by my synths. Panning effects are also a very cool using 2 Drawmer Ds201's and alternating key sources. The MX40 does something special to any percussive element. It adds something to the transients and makes drums more punchy. Love Drawmer products.
So pleased you like the video! Have you seen my previous video about using the DS201 for dawless kick ducking? There’s a third video coming too which is all about using the DS201 for various ‘special effects’ - I won’t spoil it, but they all come from producers I know who were active in the 80s. Your panning effect is one of them (you can also at a pinch set one side to duck, though I tend to prefer the method you mention of unlinking the channels and using two triggers). You can also obv run one trigger through a delay etc etc etc. I really am soooo pleased you like the video, especially being a Drawmer fan :)
Oh man, I would have listened to this in 1986-87 in the US and been enamored with your band! This is amazing work your doing mate, thank you! Also, +100 for your watch!
That’s a great idea! You *would not believe* how sloppy midi can get even with modern equipment made a few years ago, but using it for sends is perfect! Really appreciate your watching the video and commenting :-)
@@DistortThePreamp people often comment about MIDI being sloppy but I've never experienced that. I used to slave my Atari to my Tascam 244 (I added a dbx bypass switch) and it was always tight enough for me. I know it could be problematic for PCs (especially Windows 3.1) but I've never used MIDI on a PC. These days (ignoring the internal operations of my MPC) I just use MIDI to sync hardware sequencers or layer synths, again with no noticeable problems. I never chain MIDI. I built myself a MIDI Thru box soon after getting the Atari.
Using a special device as in the Blade Runner movie I was able to zoom in the secret bass screen and I can see it says: PLAY SINGLE I21 Lately Bass OT: If you like Drawmers, grab a DL221. I guarantee you will love it!!
Hahahaha! Actually ‘C15 LatelyBass’ but I have no idea how you did that! It’s the Yamaha TX81Z which is a vintage FM synth, a bit like the DX7 only much worse. It’s one redeeming feature is that on bank C patch 15 is one of the most amazing bass sounds ‘LatelyBass’ or simply ‘Lately’. It’s been used by everybody and is all over Pet Shop Boys records, New Order, etc. There are a few CZcams videos about it but none goes into the difference playing rather than programming it makes, so I’m probably going to make one. Also, 100% in the DL221. Such an amazing company!
@@DistortThePreamp It was my lame attempt making a joke. :)))) I own TX81Z and really like it. There is another bass that can be imported into it, originates from DX100 and is absolutely all over Detroit techno and UK house. It's called Solid Bass, similar to Lately but harder. Factory SYX bank will have it: Group 2 Preset 01
Oh sorry! It’s been a long day and I’m feeling really frazzled. Yeah, I know Solid Bass and it’s great. As you say, its a little ‘hardier’ but still really good. However the thing I’ve grown to love about Latelt is what happens when you play it softly - you get sooo much bass. It’s a really good patch to play wirh your hands and get loads of articulation in terms of the hardness of the sound. If I’m lazy I’ll play in a 4 bar phrase and repeat it, but if possibly I always try to track in (to the sequencer) as long as take as possible.
@@DistortThePreamp Agreed! BTW there is another cool "gate" out there. Waldorf Pulse+ (Plus), though mono input. But gives full envelope shaping for some creative gating. It gates from the MIDI which saves a few cables and has LFO controlled stereo panner. As a synth it is VERY beefy. A true sleeper, IMO.
Hahah! Don’t cringe too much - that’s what a lot of people do ;) If I had to make gated pads in the box I would probably use an envelope tool to, rather than a gate plugin. Either that or find a way of drawing in some kind of volume automation. LFO Tool and Shaper Box are pretty good and both let you trigger off a key. Although they don’t sound quite the same as the real thing…
Seems like this video really took off! There's not enough new wave/post punk synth and production content on CZcams. Thanks for being here and making videos!
That's a very kind thing to say! I've got a very long production list of videos to make but hopefully I'll be able to get on a regular schedule... Thanks for watching, caring, and commenting :-)
Yeah I’m enjoying the different focus of this channel…trying to see the glass half full and all, but it would be so much more inspiring and useful for my personal taste if more synth geek vids weren’t geared to techno bangers and “atmospheric” stuff! I like those things too, just nice to find some variety 😊
omg! im so happy to see someone who is also obsessed with that new order intro sound. when i was a kid, i used to ask my dad, who was also a musician, “what is that sound?”. he said that it was probably an arpeggiator. i wasn’t able to play with an arp til i was in my late teens. tho i loved it, i knew that wasn’t it. it wasn’t until recently i figured it was a gate. thanks for sharing this! although i think the sound being gated isn’t a continuous pad. to me it sounds like a patch that has a bit of sustain and release, coz if you listen to the record, the last bits of the gated sound sort of dies down, sounding a bit like a delay. so i think it’s probably not a continuous pad. just my opinion. 🙂 cheers!
That’s an interesting observation - I’m going to listen forensically. I actually haven’t put this on for years and did it from memory so, although I’m pretty sure the parts or approximately right, I may also have got the rhythm wrong. Before I listen I’m going to double down on my guess that it’s a continuous sound being gated, partly down to Hague’s production methods. Then again, I’m hearing gates everywhere now - when I was playing the background music against my commentary I was turning the blend (range) knob up and down and suddenly heard the Chariots of Fire intro which I’m now convinced was Vangelis playing his CS-80 through a rhythmic gate with a low blend. I can’t be sure, but the sound is very convincing. Really appreciate you watching and your comment very much!
Just listened to it and I’m pretty sure it’s a gate over chords that change every bar, but with a faint quarter note delay. The reason I think it’s a gate is that I think I can hear that the first stab of every bar has a slightly different attack, and the delay is obvious once you listen to it :) Having said that, it sounds quite different to my version and the version in my head. Amusingly I prefer the sound of my gated pads, at least compared to the version on Brotherhood. I will now wash my mouth out with soap and water 🤣
Oh that’s amazing! Pretty sure it will hold its value too. Let me know if the pots are scratchy (ie if you get a scratchy sound when you turn them) as that is a very easy fix. I’m going to do at least one more video on the DS201 about special studio effects, but I might also do a fourth specifically about gating guitars! Thank you so much for watching…
@@DistortThePreamp Congrats on a successful video!!! Can't wait for your next one. Just got my Drawmer today. Haven't set it up yet but if it makes a scratchy sound I'll let you know.
This is so great! Sorry my videos are coming out a bit slowly. I’ve literally got a list of the next twenty and I want to be doing about 2 or 3 a week but I’m slightly struggling to do 1 a week at the moment! That’s for the supportive words though.
Bought 2x DS201 (XLR versions) back in 89, they're so useful, even today. The Butterworth key filters are superb for mixing, they can bracket sounds within the mix like nothing else, - also, I've never had an issue with either unit. Same can be said for all the Drawmer DL compressors I still have too, and their dynamic noise filter, the DF320. If I want punch I use my dbx units, and I then process the dbx units through a DL241, or 251, to bring back the meat and weight that the dbx process always tends to eat up a little bit. Those Crimson equalisers are also very underrated, I have a couple of the fully parametric versions, the 3012 ones.
Such an interesting comment! I spoke to Drawmer (the company) before making this video and they confirmed that there were only ever a couple of revisions to the DS201 back in the day which were to do with the unbalanced/balanced connectors, and essentially the unit has been in continuous production since it was introduced with no changes (apart from when components had to be changed because old components were no longer available). I find it hilarious that the only differences between my units are the logo alignment :) As a matter of interest, which dbx compressor(s) do you have? And it’s amazing that you have the 3012 EQ. A producer friend has the Indigo which is like mine only tube instead of solid state and he likes to drive it. As you say, it’s underrated, like a lot of the TLA stuff. I use mine pretty much exclusively for adding 1-2dB of 8k (shelf) when tracking vocals. It’s nothing special, but it does the job fine. Thank you so much for watching, and for commenting!
@@DistortThePreamp Hey there, - regarding the dbx units, my current favourite is the 166A,- I have one earlier model, with the external metal XLR fixing plates, and one second gen, - the second generation sounds slightly cleaner, but that's probably just age more than anything else. I know many knock the lower cost dbx units, but I'm really into heavy Electronica, and for that purpose they are perfect, especially drums, individual or buss. One of my favourite artists/producers is Jack Dangers of *Meat Beat Manifesto,* and I learned in the early 90s that he used an old dbx118 to get a particular drum sound, and it was a sound I really liked, so over the 90s I picked up 2x 118 units myself, - they're essentially the poor mans dbx160vu. I later heard he had used 166A units on his album *Subliminal Sandwich,* so I had to get a couple. I use all my dbx processors as, essentially, transient shapers, I just really like the process, - but I know many hate it, they find the way they "slam the drums" too much. I also bought a 1066, probably early 2000s, which I didn't gel with for years, but over the last 10 years or so I've found them quite useful, the trick with the 1066 is to barely let the gain reduction meter show any action, one or two red LEDs showing is all one wants, - the threshold and ratio controls on the dbx1066 really don't appear to follow the markings around each control, so keeping a low Ratio and high Threshold is the only way I've found, personally, to make good use of them, - but set up just right, they can sound very much like the 166A, just a little clearer, - so I now have 2 of them also. I bought a 166xl, just to see, - absolute rubbish really, - to get the classic dbx action, the compressor needs to work fluidly in *Auto* mode, - the 166xl really craps out in this regard. so out of what I've got, 1. 166A 2. 118 3. 1066 4. 166xl - avoid at all costs - but like I mentioned previously, they do suck some of the weight out of the sound, apart from the 118 units, which do, but nowhere near as bad. So, to get the sound I really want out of the 166A and the 1066 units, - I will either follow them with a Drawmer DL compressor, which really thickens the sound back up, or, what is more common, for me, as I tend to work from a top down approach, - I just strap a Drawmer DL251 over the main buss inserts, after an equaliser, and mix into that, while having a 166A, etc set up on a stereo buss drum group, - that way what ever I'm doing with the dbx units within the desk, they're already hitting some of that Drawmer meat, iykwim. And, as I always say when posting on forums, - I ain't no professional, just another idiot with enough money to spend on toys that feed my autistic need for sonic manipulation. love to ALL
Very interesting. I had a 166XL too and it sounded terrible. The only use I ever found for it was to add punch to organ transients and, well, that’s not much of a reason to keep it. I love the dbx sound which as you might know is mainly to do with the fact that the detection circuit works on RMS rather than peak. It surprises me how few people in CZcamsLand understand the difference this makes, but it’s really critical to the way they slam drums and pin a vocal. The 1176 is obviously peak, and don’t get me started on the LA-2A. I think I’m going to make an entire video about how the latter is literally destroying vocals because it’s release time of 15s means that the compressor doesn’t reset between lines. So your drop ins are compressed differently. Blah blah blah. ;)
Bro, what is going on with this channel? IT'S FRICKING GREAT! Wow, we live in the best time for information and learning. I'm so glad I came across this. This is gold for anyone getting into synths and hardware. Heck, it's gold for anyone who is in love with understanding how music is/was made. I'm 50 years old and I absolutely love trying to produce music. Spent more than half of my life playing multiple instruments in bands. Not the best musician but not the worst - I know a few chords. For the last couple years I have been consumed with learning how to mixing music and produce with affordable analog synths. I bought a Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK mixing board... It is slowly changing my life. I also have that Arturia Keystep Pro connected to a bunch of stuff. It's a lot of fun. I could go on and on..... Ha! Also, I see that Behringer TR3. I have the MonoPoly, RD-8 and the VC340. If I would have never bought that first Behringer synth I would not be on this video right now. Glad I found this channel! Its really great! MUSICIANS UNITE, and CREATE!!!!!!!!!! LETS GO!
Thank you so much for this awesome comment! My main problem is that the videos are taking too long, but hopefully I will be able to solve that soon :) The Soundcraft boards have always been great. You just need the space for it 😂 I often wish I had an RD-8 and will definitely get one. Even when I’m using my Roland R8 I rely on my RD-9 hats but I often really want 808 hats or snare. And samples are *not the same*. Really appreciate you watching and your very, very kind comment which is inspiring :)
The drawmer made a „Click“ Impulse when opening and sometimes closing which gave the sound an impulse that you couldn’t get from instruments, while new sound
That’s exactly correct - it affects the transient and it’s particularly noticeable on softer sounds :) Reallt appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment. Thanks Murray :)
@@DistortThePreamp I could have 3 of these i used for drums im really looking forward to trying them on synths, thanks so much for sharing, love the relaxed vibe of your videos. 10/10
I knew a whole load of engineers who used to refer to using key triggers on the Drawmer as 'Shamen mode'! Did I already make this comment? My brain is addled -- I'm having CZcams upload problems 😣. So the Shamen records I have use the Drawmers on guitars which makes them sound like a synth -- Move and Mountain is a really good example of this. Is that what you mean by guitar-driven synths? Or were they routing guitars through synth filters? Such huge talent.
@@DistortThePreamp I think in live shows they made use of the Roland GR707 as well. But yeah, as soon as I heard your demos of the drawmers my mind went straight to some of their classic tracks.
Yes! I actually still haven’t checked my version against the original, so apologies if some of the parts aren’t quite right. And I think I’m specifically remembering the Stephen Hague mix from a Factory sampler tape - that’s the version that’s burned into my memory, mainly because of the gated arps. It was so fun to remake that I’m thinking I might do live streams whereby people suggest synthpop songs and I program them up on the fly… what do you think?
Your channel is really inspiring. ❤ The hardware gates sound awesome: musical and punchy. I think plugins can't achieve that. At least I don't know any with such quality. As you are a big fan of gates, as me, I recommend Ken Hiwatt Marshall's video about Radio-Gator. He is an audio engineer and works a lot for Skinny Puppy. He also makes heavy use of creative gating-techniques. Maybe you can draw something out of it. Enjoy. 🎉
Oh my gosh, I was taken back to my youth😮. I saved up months, from my meagre earnings, for a Korg ms20 synth. (I went on to update much later with a Juno and a few others), I’ll have to dust of the ms20 for old times sake, my husband will be over the moon with that 😂.Thanks for this slice of wonderful nostalgia🎉
It's a bobby dazzler of a sound. The first time I heard gated sounds like that was on Strawberry Switchblade's Another Day (1985 incidently) and it blew my mind. So glad I subbed.
Oh amazing! Do you know ‘Since Yesterday’ also by Strawberry Switcgbkade? The whole track is gated at the end of the middle section. Such a cool sound!
@@DistortThePreamp Yes, It does sound gorgeous and it's on the same album produces by David Motion & Phil Thornally. You're doing a fantastic job keep up the brilliant work.
Liking the style of your videos - can't think of any other channels out there that gives the background, or a back story that explains why a sound was searched for. Keep it up, think you've got a niche here. Quality over quantity - the views will follow.
Such a huge compliment Colette! I'm a massive OMD fan and will definitely be doing some programming based on early OMD soon... Thanks for watching, and for the awesome comment!
Sounds great! Though having not had hands on one of these myself I do wonder why you can't do it with the built in gate (in Ableton, in my case - it's pretty good in my experience). Mostly just a "I don't have room for more rack gear right now" sort of thought, rather than trying to say anyone is doing things wrong (whatever way gives you the most joy is the right way!). Edit: I've just tried it, and it does indeed work how I was expecting. I'll give you it doesn't quite have the immediacy of hardware, especially with a patch bay, as I had to: 1. configure my drum machine to send the rimshot channel to a separate output, removing it from the mix output; 2. set up a separate input channel in Ableton from my mixer, with the rimshot channel on it; 3. configure the default gate device for sidechain input set to the channel I just added; 4. play with the settings to make it sound good. Since it's sidechained audio straight from the drum machine which is my master clock, it is perfectly in sync as you might expect. But once I was done, it did work. Does it sound as good as that hardware? I don't know, your video is my only experience with them. But I can't really tell the difference by my ears...
This is an excellent question and an excellent point. In truth, once you've got the sound it really doesn't sound much different, or maybe not different at all. The same is true for mid-range soft synths that mimic vintage synths with DCOs -- I can't really tell the difference between, say, a Tal-U-No soft synth and the Juno 60. What _is_ different however, as you allude to, is the workflow and the immediacy. I very much enjoy being able to 'throw up sounds' quickly on physical hardware, and that can make a difference in the kind of sounds you get. So with a physical gate like the Drawmer, for example, it's very easy for me to try the hold, try the decay, balance the two, then tune in the range. With plugins this process is a little tricker, but not impossible at all. BTW if you want to experiment, try using an Ableton rack to split the stereo into left and right, rig up a gate on each channel, map the gate controls to macros, but then have an extra macor which changes some of the parameters ever so slightly on one of the channels. I would start with the range, but the hold would be another one. A tiny amount of thise can make a mono sound much wider. So in conclusion, there's really nothing wrong soundwise with processing in the box, and it's a sensible choice. Just FWIW I do all of my editing and mixing 100% in the box. One final note: watch the 'noise solo' at 34:35 on my latest 'The Power of Noise' video where I play the Drawmer like an instrument. The head on shot is live but the side shot is from another take. This is tricky to do with plugins not because plugins don't sound good, but just because of the physicality of throwing knobs and switches around. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment!
@@DistortThePreamp I'm with you! I'm currently watching the noise video... MIDI mapping parameters to a hardware controller is my usual way around what you say, but yes - while you can get somewhere eventually, just having the knobs in front of you ready to go makes a big difference (one reason I try to have my little studio set up with a default live set with everything mapped, my MIDI router pre-configured, etc).
What's most amazing is the fast arps on the Proteus' awful strings actually sound good 😮 After decades of keeping my Proteus solely as a harsh reminder to never settle for less (once I'd settled and blown my savings on the E-mu, the desired Roland U-220 became unobtainable 😭) I am trying to rehabilitate it and find a few gems. It's actually quite a good match for controlling from my Roland AE-30 wind synth.
Oh I think the Proteus strings are amazing! They’re basically a port of Mercato strings from the Emulator. The trick is to play them like string parts. You’re going to laugh (given your comment) but they were the reason why I got the Proteus. They’re amazing for disco strings too if you play them in the right way!
@@DistortThePreamp I'll have to give them a try for disco strings. I'm currently developing a live jam inspired by classic disco/funk so thanks for the tip! With so many of these sounds it's a task of finding their hidden strengths! 😀
Rather than record them stereo, I tend to record them mono and double them. I know in this video I sequenced them, but I almost always play the strings parts. I mean violinists are nowhere near a grid right!
Haha! You win all of the prizes! 🏆 I don’t think it’s left that patch for years 😂 What not so many people know about that patch (unless they’ve got the unit themselves) is how well it responds to velocity. It’s an incredibly articulate sound - soft velocities are full with loads of low end, and harder velocity make it sort of ‘twang’. This is why I never programm it and always play it (albeit into a sequencer). When you see me fiddling about before I take the part I’m not only working out the notes, I’m also testing the right velocity for the song. Really appreciate you watching, and doing the inevitable reveal :)
Thank you! I really appreciate this. Don’t think this is a canned response - I’m still quite overwhelmed by the positive responses. The whole channel was started in mid March. It’s all very new.
I really appreciate that you do things by feel and spirit. Like a recreation or homage maybe should be an expression of one's own unique ear and individuality. The Fantasy string's part for example, so exhilarating to hear.
Oh my god, i want a copy of your 80s demo!!! 😍 Your gated sound was its own thing, and the problem about the 80s vs now is that there's a wider range of appreciation of sounds that aren't 100% what they set out to be. I heard emotions in your demo. It was coming from a different direction. It almost trailblazing in that there was a hint of later indie rock
That’s extremely kind! I think the rights to the recordings were owned by somebody else but I’ve considered doing a remake ever since I found the demo tape a couple of years ago. There’s a funny story about a house that I used to own in a famous university town, a bass player in a world famous rock band, and a carrier bag that eventually showed up 20 years later with this demo tape. I literally had to buy a cassette deck and use Izotope RX to recover the audio. At the time I think we made the gated guitar sound using a Yamaha FX500 multi-effects unit and triggering the gate via midi. It wasn’t perfect, and it wasn’t quite the sound we were going for, but it was definitely a mood. Ah, if only we’d had the internet… Really appreciate your kind words, and thank you for watching!
You're so welcome..I have done the exact same process with my cassette demos. And what a wonderful story you shared. I was in the Bay area at the same time, but everything you said there brought me back to that era having musical adventures as such. Only yours sounded more larger scale..but still..man. what a time to have been alive in
Good video. The Shamen used this a lot. I was never sure about how they did it but I figured it wasn't chopping the samples - too much effort to be used so much.
That’s exactly right! The used exactly this gate - the Drawmer DS201. The main rhythmic lead sound on Move Any Mountain (that goes x-x-x-xx-xx-x-x-) is actually Will’s guitar through the gate with an external trigger doing the rhythm. The used it so much that engineers used to call using the gate in this way “putting it in Shamen mode” 😂
Great video. Back in the 90s I had a couple of different Tascam mixers (at different times) which had MIDI mutes on the channels that I used for gating. Although with MIDI being a bit slow, you'd had have to move the trigger sound forward a 1/96th note as to not lose the attack. The Yamaha digital mixers did it really well too with their built in gates. That all said, I'll take your word for it that the Drawmer's the best!
This has been ever so slightly controversial, but I stand by it :) MIDI gates are such a great idea in theory - and I used to use them - but they’re not fast or consistent enough to keep strict time. That’s not necessarily a problem, but it usually is. A few people have been noting that there are “other gates” and of course there are. But those Drawmers are built like tanks, haven’t changed design for 40 years, and are still in production. It’s also the only gate I used to see racked up in ‘proper’ studios. Really appreciate you watching, and for the comment :)
Hahaha! That should be in a video I’ve got planned about oscillator sync sounds and aggressive buss compression 🤣 Hopefully the New Order track wasn’t too much of a let down ;)
Used to use the DS201 for the live stuff when big analogue mixers and racks of outboard was a thing. Was an industry standard on all the rider specs. Did repair the last of what we had kicking about which got sold on, the FET used for the actual audio attenuation was obsolete but i managed to find some NOS. These where quite a common failure along with the pots wearing out, which again where an oddity but Drammer always had good stock of them. There were a few classic rack unit's of the time that everyone had in that world.
Oh is the FET now obsolete? Surely Drawmer still use FETs, no? Fascinating if they don’t. At some stage I’ll go up to Sheffield and see if I can get to look around the factory…
@@DistortThePreamp I just had a look into it. Looks like the 2N4091 is the one that gets used today which is available. I remember at the time i had a real problem sourcing replacements as they weren't readily available. I can't remember off hand what the original spec'd one was. This single fet is what's doing the actual gating of the audio. I think they still might be making them, I've seen like at least 3 different production versions of the 201 where parts changed. If you manage to get a look around the factory that would make a good video if they allow it. I think they probably would be OK with it, they were always a friendly bunch to deal with.
Yes, very friendly :) I contacted them for research before I made the video and they were very helpful. Basically the unit hasn’t changed since it was introduced apart from the balanced/unbalanced thing and substitute componsents when old ones no longer were available. I’m going to Sheffield in the next few weeks and I’m sure they’ll let me drop in :)
Yes! It’s funny to think that if I’d started the channel a year before I did I’m sure I would have been able to interview Ivor Drawmer himself. But the guys I’ve spoken to there have been working there for 30+ years. Proper continuity, proper manufacturing, and proper quality.
Your Dawless setup is fascinating but I'm not sure if I would ever have the patience for it. :) Incidentally, I keep stumbling on videos talking about gating sounds based on percussion. I recently saw the same technique about the Prince song 'Kiss". Hats off for using the NO song as inspiration. No complaints there.
Yes, I know that video and it *really* surprises me as it would have been much easier to gate off a trigger sound that copied the hi-hat rhythm. After all, the hats were programmed on a Linn, right? In my experience although hats have enough attack for a gate trigger the unpredictable decay doesn’t give you enough control when gating. Having said that the Linn hat sound is actually itself a continuous loop with a VCA that opens and closes so now I’m writing this it’s probably fine 😂 You make an interesting point about dawless setups. I’m not recommending them but I certainly work *a lot * faster than I used to when I was programming in the daw. I also like the way that it keeps me in a ‘right brain’ state of mind - I came to believe that working in a daw made me more on an engineer and less of a player/produver. Though who knows 😂 Really appreciate you watching, and the comment…
Absolutely The Damned Don’t Cry! I thought that was too obscure to mention but it’s an excellent example. Once you know the Drawmer character you can even hear that it’s specifically a Drawmer gate because there’s a slight thump to the transient which for some reason I don’t hear with plugin gates. Go figure.
There are so many ways to do this in a DAW now. All midi, or using midi to control audio, or audio to control audio. And I like to play with track delay just in case it feels like it needs to come forward a bit.
Yes there are. Track delay is a very good trick. The one thing that I find difficult with daws is playing in real time. It’s not quite impossible, but it feels very different. And obviously the more complex the session, the more accumulated latency. So what started as an issue with sound is really mainly an issue with playability. If you programme stuff then this isn’t an issue. But if you want to play in your parts and ‘tune in the gates’ so you are responding to them then for now it’s still a problem. Having said that, when ever I add gates to stuff once I’m in the box and use plugins it does sound different. Not necessarily worse, just different. I think it’s down to the way an analog gates produces distortion when it clamps down on the volume. Who knows. But certainly doing everything inside a daw is legitimate.
@@DistortThePreamp Best thing I've tried for live playing is the arpeggiator/sequencer on the NI FM8. Don't know why it just feels good and can reset when you play new notes etc. Shame you can't tap tempo it outside of a DAW. Maybe you can i'm not sure.
It's amazing that thing you described where you can try 1000 different ways to do something, every one of them exactly the same on paper, but its just NEVER right! Then when you find the thing you're looking for and you can't describe why it's right, it just is🤦♂️🤣
Fantastic video. I'm only halfway through so far but I'm loving the way you explain this - which resonates immensely with me as also a lifelong (more like off/on) maker of electronic / synthy pop music, having been enthralled emotionally by those wondrous 80s synth-pop gems. For me, growing up in the early 00s, the first thing like this I had was the "Slicer" effect on my Yamaha DJXII Keyboard - it basically did the slicing right (symmetrical patterns only), but with obnoxious clicks at the start/stop. And then my Roland D2 (MC-505 knock-off) Groovebox also had slicer DSP, and the Korg MicroKorg had the arpeggio with the 8 buttons (representing steps you can turn on/off)....in 2015 ish I returned to trying to make this effect with Logic Pro 9's Sculpture software instrument, it had a "groove delay".
When I recently got the Behringer K2 (Korg MS-20), I started using the drum signal as a CV input controlling the LPF (or alternatively, as the gate trigger) and that got me 90% there, I was loving it. Now, seeing your video, I want to do your method which may be a smidge better.
This is such an unexpected response! A few people have said the same thing and it wasn’t what I was expecting at all. All I can say is that record companies didn’t agree in 1989 😂 Thanks for watching - really appreciate it :)
So I looked at the manual of the Drawmer Ds201 and it looked like the gate signal is an audio signal that controls the gating and not a gate signal... my Quadraverb also does gating but it gets sent midi signal. But now i'm fascinated by the possibility of drone/noise gated rhythms cheers!! And now i'm looking for a Drawmer DS201.
Yes :) I’ve used all sorts of audio triggers. Very short square waves, but also squares out of a synth so that I can control the gate length. It’s a lot of fun!
To be honest it might sound exactly the same once you've dialled it in. But check out the 'noise solo' at 34:35 on the recent 'The Power of Noise' video. This kind of thing isn't for everyone, but it's a little hard to do with plugins. Not that I'm hating on DAWs or plugins -- I'm 100% in the box for mixing and editing. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
Very well spotted, especially since the logo is covered up with black tape! Had them for years and they sound totally fine. I’ve never ever had a problem with my mixes not being balanced and that, I think, is the ultimate test. I think it’s important that producers don’t listen to arguments that imply that better monitors or room correction are some kind of silver bullet that will fix their tracks. I believe the trick is to get real good source recordings at which point everything really takes care of itself and you need minimal processing. Just like the bad old days. Thanks for watching - really appreciate it!
You can do this using the stock gate in ableton. All the controls you need are there including the few extras the drawmer doesn't have. The hardware is fun though and at £75 I might grab one. Some further experiments you should consider for a part 2 of this video is adding delay and reverb. Try adding reveb before the gate. After the gate. And before and after the gate. use delay after the gate. I learned a lot of these tricks when I coincidentally covered BLT as well. It's on my soundcloud if you want to have a listen.
That’s a great point about reverb before the gate and delay after - that’s exactly what I do (when I do it). Reverb after the gate just gets too mushy and detracts from the rhythm. The only reverb I add to gated pads in the mix is a very short ‘ambience’ (like the old 480L patch) though even that is often too much for my taste. And bouncing dotted 8s delays can sound lovely on the gated sound. One way to have a bit more fun in the box if you’re not using hardware is to split the channel into left and right (in Ableton you’d use a rack), gate each side from the same key trigger, but have ever so slightly different parameters on the gates. You could even rig up a macro to dial in the amount of variation. This after all is what’s happening out of the box because I never even both trying to get the left and right channels the same, and this includes the range which in effect is the blend. Maybe that’s one of the reasons why it feels like it widens the image? Really appreciate your watching and taking time to comment. I’ll check out your SoundCloud…
For those who might be a bit impatient the process links are in the description which you can click directly to. Then you can return to the introduction and back story at your leisure. DAWLESS PROGRAMMING AND GATE SETUP 13:17 Timer starts 13:34 Basic drums 14:15 Setting up the trigger key for the gates 15:04 Gated pads and classic Drawmer DS201 setup 16:15 Moog bass 16:55 Strings 19:34 Fantasy 20:10 Slap bass 20:49 FM bass 21:18 Snare fill 22:30 Orch stab
I think I learned about the technique from Mixmaster Morris talking about his 1992 album Flying High which is extensively based on rhthmic gating of samples. Maybe he got it from The Shamen.
Two things spring out at me here. First is the first time I heard the gated synth sound was on Visage's The Damned Don't Cry from 1982 (I was 14). Second is when I started my career in the electronics industry a couple of years later, it was in printed circuit board manufacture and assembly. One of our regular customers was Drawmer electronics. So I probably made and/or assembled some of the electronics and the circuit boards in those 201s in 1985/86 to 1990. If I'd have known then what I was making (I was a huge synth music fan) I would have probably bought one. All hand assembled and soldered together by hand too.
I absolutely love that record and still play it all the time. I considered using it as the example but it’s not as well known. I didn’t know the Drawmers were assembled by hand but it makes perfect sense - I’ve opened all mine up and the build quality is outstanding! Really appreciate you watching and commenting.
Oh I should have mentioned - don’t know if you’ve watched the latest video about synth bass but that’s (obviously) a photograph of the whole of Visage outside Blitz Club right at the top of the video. So not only Steve Strange but John McGeoch, Rusty Egan, a very young looking Midge Ure, the whole gang…
I subscribed because all these years I wonder what happened with all those amazing 80's synth pop producers. They vanished from the face of this planet or what ? In my country British synth pop groups were soo crazy popular in the 80's and 90's
Listen to “Is There Something I Should Know” “New Moon on Monday” or “The Reflex” by Duran Duran. Same pad gated effect in 1983. From Ian Little : "One of the things that I did was get a pad synth sound, put it through a Drawmer gate on an external trigger, and then have the gate triggered off a percussive part like a side-stick which was already being played or programmed specifically to trigger the gate. Sequencers were still pretty new and cumbersome in those days, so this provided an alternative way of getting a pulsed synth sound, but the type of sound was also very, very different. If it's sequenced, each note is being triggered individually, whereas a pad that is held down for a sustained sound that is then gated and triggered is a totally different animal, because there's no attack at the front of each note other than that provided by the gate opening. The Drawmer was the first gate I used that had frequency selectivity, and that meant you could really isolate the part of the rhythm that you wanted to accent. What's more, the attack and release times on the gate could totally change the character of the pulse that you heard. This was something that I introduced to Nick and you can hear it both on 'Is There Something I Should Know?' and 'The Reflex'; more like an organic version of a sequenced line, being more rounded while boasting a certain degree of randomness."
Excellent point! Well done for finding this. I’m a huge Nick Rhodes fan and the first three Duran albums. This is funny because I normally reckon myself to be something of a Drawmer Gate spotter but I always thought those were just sequences. Also this might be one of the earliest examples since it was either recorded late in 82 or early in 83 and the DS201 was only released in 82. So the unit would have been very recent. And the technique is exactly correct - you trigger of a percussive part like a side stick (or 808 rim shot) and make a played or programmed part specifically to trigger the gate. I’ve also just realised why I might not have clocked it at the time (I’m editing my original answer to you). I have a memory of seeing Nick Rhodes perform Union of the Snake on Toonof the Pops and noticing how his was playing (ie miming) the rhythmic chord part. At the time, and being a classical piano player, I remember thinking ‘How does he do that and keep it so tight?’ Now I realise it was pure stage craft. Really appreciate your watching and for the comment! About referring to 1986 in the title/thumbnail - really I suppose that was a direct reference to New Order’s ‘Bizarre Love Triangle’ and there was quite a lot of this going on before. Cocteau Twins ‘Heaven or Las Vegas’ album for example, and if course a very famous indie guitar song with an iconic opening that the (also very famous) guitarist explained took them ages because they had to get the vibrato in time whereas in fact he was fibbing and the sound was made using a triggered Drawmer gate. Note: I’m only not mentioning the track by name because I’m going to do a video on it and I don’t want this comment to come up if somebody searches for the song name, but it was done in 1984, produced by John Porter, and I mentioned the band in the opening of my recent ‘Noise’ video ;) Really appreciate your comment!
You should also check out Since Yesterday (Strawberry Switchblade) from 1985. Phil Thornally (the producer who was also actually _in_ The Cure at the time) strapped a Drawmer DS201 over the whole mix for an absolutely iconic effect the end of the middle eight.
btw -- I know exactly how Nick Rhodes did the arpeggios in Rio and I'm considering making a video about that, plus some other basic arp playing techniques. Sound interesting?
Oh that's a great bit of kit. One of my theories about analog gear versus plugins is that all the preamps in the chain make a significant difference in aggregate. The ProMix 01 would have sounded great I suspect.
@@DistortThePreamp Well the gates did an awesome job. It was super easy to assign a gate to a channel and assign a different channel as sidechain, then all the controls were there for attack, release, depth. I was too inexperienced to realize how crappy its EQ was though.
Absolutely. Depends if you want hardware or plugins. For hardware which is best for real time playing (because there’s no latency) you could have a look at the Boss Slicer Pedal. It’s a slightly different effect but a great vibe. Plus, remember that most hardware including pedals keep their value more than plugins. In terms of plugins for in the box work, of course you can rig up a stock gate and send a trigger to it, but for more fun I’m a fan of the Gatekeeper Plugin which was done by the Infected Mushroom guys. Other plugins like LFO Tool and ShaperBox (both of which I own) do an excellent job of gating from a trigger, but Gatekeeper is a lot of fun and you can pretty much page through presets till you find something you like and then build a track around that rhythm. It’s not like the 80s thing, but it’s pretty creative and inspiration is probably more important than authenticity!
Haha! I sold my 3630 quite recently. It's not nearly as 'dirty' as people make out -- you just need to know how to set it. Unless, of course, you want it to sound 'dirty'. I originally bought mine for about £30 but unfortunately people try to charge a lot more because of the Daft Punk factor.
Awesome video as always! I'm wondering that does the Drawmer DS 201 have some 'magic' in it, that I can't achieve with plugins like the Shaperbox volume shaper? I'm just asking because I'm working almost entirely out of the box, but for example the rhythmic pads I'm doing in software. Does it worth to go out of the box and get a Drawmer for this duty?
Thank you! Just before I give you a very long and definitive answer 😂 can I just check your process… you work mainly outside the box but then track into the box for editing and mixing? Assuming that answer is yes, then when you track in are you using your DAW clock to generate, say, drum sounds from drum machines? Or are you pressing play on a drum machine or hardware sequencer and tracking ‘free’? I should also ask what DAW you’re using as, believe it or not, it makes a different to the answer..
@@DistortThePreamp thanks for the reply! :) All my sound sources are coming from hardware, old 80s and early 90s stuff, that I record into the daw, which is Ableton. Mainly playing/writing midi, and then sending it out to the synths for recording. The drums are also written in midi, and sent out to stuff like the E-Mu procussion or the Korg DDD-5. For creative effects I also use old racks and pedals, as send effects, sometimes inserts, but all the mixing duties (eq/compression) are done in Ableton with plugins. I’m making ‘tropical synthpop’ so rythmic synths are essential, but I don’t know if it worth to bring it out of Ableton or no… I really like the shaperbox plugin, but maybe the Drawmer adds something extra?
@@DistortThePreamp I don't want to hurry you, but I'm really interested in your insight on the matter about does it worth for me to get a DS 201 or no? :) (the answers for your questions are in my previous reply)
Sorry for the delay! Yes, I think you would have fun with a DS201. Assuming you buy it for a sensible price second hand, then it’s not really a risk if it doesn’t work out. The main think you would use it for (obviously) is creative gating. There are a few tricks to integrating this into a hybrids setup like yours (and mine) but the main thing I would ALWAYS do is to make sure you record the trigger/pulse track on a separate track in your DAW. This means that you will always be able to do endless overdubs where you re-trigger the gates at exactly the same time. This is particularly critical if your drum machines aren’t perfectly on the grid. I know mine aren’t and I prefer to leave them that way. If you get one and you get really stuck then reach out to me and I’m sure I’ll be able to help :) In my experience the Drawmer is a lot more fun, inspiring, and musical than using an envelope plugin like ShaperBox or LFOtool. I have both of those (as well as the FabFilter Pro-G) and I use them when mixing for kick duxking, but not for gating. Hands on feels a lot better, and there’s some ‘magic’ that the Drawmer seems to add to the transient.
If I am not wrong. I think Bomb the Base have the same gate effect in the song, "Say a little prayer." You have answered my everlasting question. I know the emotion that this effect gives. Funky drummer. The snare might have the same gate effect.
I stopped nskjng music back in 1995. Real life. After my wife passing away. I started building up a hardware studio. Almost there. I do have the Yamaha TX802 rack unit. And I have the Drawmer DS201 Gate as well as The Drawmer compressor limiter.
This is a fantastic video. Thanks! It might sound a bit niche but at some point I wouldn’t mind seeing how you would work with a drawmer in a smaller scale studio (or do we all need a patch bay?)
Oh thank you so much! It’s funny to have you imply that my studio isn’t small scale - it feels tiny! But the question about patch bays is legit. I think it depends on two things: (1) how many ins and outs your interface has; and (2) whether or not you have any other gear. To be honest, I would always lean towards a patch bay because constantly plugging and unplugging gear round the back is just not very fun. However, you would also need a cheap rack because you can’t be balancing stuff on top of each other - that’s a recipe for disaster. The *only* patch bay I would recommend is the Behringer Ultrapatch PX3000. It’s balanced, supports normalling and half-normalling, is light, and there lots available second hand at prices that won’t break the bank (and it should pretty much hold its value if you decide to sell it). And you should be able to pick up a small 4U desktop rack for next to nothing (although some of my floor standing 10U rack units I picked up for literally £10!). The point about ‘half-normalling’ with a patchbay is that, provided you have enough inputs on your interface, you can do a trick where you simultaneously recorded the ‘pure’ sound *as well as* the sound through the gate. TBH that’s less relevant for gated sounds, but it’s hugely relevant if you are, say, recording vocals through a compressor but want to also take the ‘unprocessed’ sound as a ‘safety track’. Sorry to ramble on ;)
@@DistortThePreampYou mentioned available inputs/outputs on the audio interface- I think you were going to say that if you have extra outputs available, you could hardwire those to both the gate inputs and side chain inputs and use your DAW to route tracks to them. DAWs typically let you rename hardware I/O so in the end you’d simply route/send/insert to “Drawmer Gate” and “Drawmer sidechain”. No patchbay, no reaching around the back to require things, at least until you decided you need the I/O for something else.
Yes, exactly! When you do this it’s really important to run a consistent trigger from the daw. That way you can do as many overdubs as you like and the gate triggers are all perfectly in time. Unlike, say, my midi which is a bit all over the place ;)
Tone deaf and not musical in the slightest (can just about match two sets of beats long enough to mix, sometimes). This channel is fascinating, all stuff I wish I could do.
Oh I’m really pleased you like it. I’m trying really hard to make videos that also appeal to non-musicians, so you comment is exactly what I’m hoping for. Thank you so much for watching, and for taking the time to comment :)
Hahaha -- no I'm afraid I don't! It was done in about 1989 and I'm not sure we even own the rights anymore. Maybe one day I'll negotiate to get them back and release a 'lost' album! Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp Although I know your goal was to improve upon this genre, it's a fantastic song ! I hope maybe you're able to upload it someday. 🤞 🎶 Fantastic video !
i like your approach! i've been using a boss slicer pedal but all the presets can be really overwhelming and easy to forget which one does what if i don't write it down or take a pic on my phone
That’s interesting to hear. A lot of people think that the Boss Slicer is easier - it’s certainly easier to carry! - but I can believe that it’s a bit overwhelming…
Your videos are simply superb. Having been a columnist for an audio and music magazine for over 20 years and also having a CZcams channel myself, I can tell you that the talking parts of your videos are so real and emotional that they truly bring me back to my articles. But you do it on camera! And the performance sections of your videos are the icing on the cake. You are a very talented musician, producer and story teller!
That’s so kind! Thank you very much indeed! I’m deep into editing the next one and it’s hard to keep up with comments but I’ve just seen the notification and this is a very supportive comment to start the day with :) Who did you write for?
@@DistortThePreamp my pleasure! I wrote for a Brazilian magazine called Audio, Música & Tecnologia. It was the biggest publication of its kind for decades but sadly they’re no longer being published. I engineered, mixed, mastered and synth programmed quite a few albums through life and your videos have been really inspiring. Looking forward to the next ones. Best! Enrico De Paoli
Oh excellent! :)
One of the most inspirational music tech videos I’ve ever seen. As a 49 year old who has tinkered with music production for the best part of 25 years you have reignited a flame in me to get back into it and explore the sounds of the music and eras I love. It helps that I chose Bizarre Love Triangle to be played at my wedding as it is my favourite song by God’s Own Backing Band (trademark Melody Maker 1993) New Order
Thank you so much for such a fantastic comment! I’m so pleased that you like the video, and it would be amazing if it played a small role in getting you back into music. I am a huge believer in the power of music and music making to make people’s lives better, and there is no better decade than the 80s. I hadn’t heard the monicker “God’s Own Backing Band”! It’s funny because it’s true.
I don't know why I'm watching this. I once spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours making synth music in my 20s in the 2000s. I married, have family and I feel like that life has long passed me by. I guess I can live vicariously through you guys who kept at it.
Never too late to pick up a few Behringer synths for not a lot and go back to it. Start with a second hand Model D, a TD3, an RD8 and a Keystep pro and you’re up and running!
And a second hand little mixing desk with a couple of sends, a reverb and a delay…it’s crazy how inexpensive this gear is nowadays.
@Sharkpuss I bought a Juno 106 (among about 15 other 80s and analog synths) in 2008 for $300, sold it for $600 to Jay Z two years later. I just looked at the price and a tear almost came to my eye. Lol. I'm thinking about it. The passion is there. It's just the time...50 hour work week inspecting welds with two young kids at home makes it very hard. This was all my choice of course and don't regret kids at all but the love for the art is still there.
@Sharkpuss It's not so much the price, I just have so little time for anything. Also, the idea I could ever make a living at it picking it up again in my 40s is so ridiculous it's depressing. I guess it's a bit of a nostalgic midlife crisis getting to me, Lol. I'm thoroughly enjoying seeing other people doing so much with the art though, I just feel left out or left behind. I may pick up a fee pieces of gear though and just make some music for myself. My kids might get into it when they're older.
I wouldn’t worry - not many people are making a living making music anymore…
I just enjoy the process nowadays :)
The main takeaway from this video for those that dont have half an hour is:
a good gating effect needs an attack&release which are super fast and the side-chain path has a filter.
thats it!
which makes it weird that he says the Ableton gate won't do it. It totally will.
@@aradderunfortunately it won’t because it won’t make the gating distortion effect that the drawmer did, it created extra clicks and bumps to the signal that it was gating due to rise time of the gate opening and a sort of door closing sound when the gate closed again, this I believe came as side effect of the electronics special to the drawmer gates, this is why it had to be a drawmer, possibly by not being the most expensive piece of equipment it was actually a limitation , but as it was back then you took „mistakes“ or „limitations“ and made them a part of the sound, I have worked with many other manufacturers of gates and they are in effect very transparent, and therefore do not give you the drawmer clicks and bumps, it was for example put, you would think unnecessarily, on drum machine kicks to give them that edge and lift to the initial impulse and by manipulating hold and release completely change the character, I suppose it’s that famous analog non linearity and distortion that are possibly technical limitations but very useful ones…
Saw this comment just as I was hearing him say “So let me tell you a little bit about myself…” hahaha 😂 Thanks for the tl;dw!
Yeah, I'm not sure what the big secret was or how it took him so long to 'discover' it.
One’s trash, another one’s gold! Go out to play kiddies
As always - I LOVE your journey and to me, teaching.
You have truly UNLOCKED my heart with the music my soul yearns for. THANK YOU AGAIN.
When I saw 1986, I knew Bizarre Love Triangle would be mentioned!
Haha - that’s some Level 19 Fortune Telling! It’s such a good track though. As is most of their stuff from around that period. I can’t imagine what it must have been like in the band though - I gather Stephen was programming all day with the producer (also Stephen) while the others were in the pool.
You sir, can spin a yarn! This is now my favorite channel, Jackanory for gear heads of a certain vintage. Please keep this up.
Hahahaha!!! That’s such an awesome comment! I’ll get a photo of Bernard Cribbins and work it into the next video 😂😂😂
Great video. Really pleased that you've unlocked more of the magic of this unit :) Still in production, but as you say, there are a LOT out there on ebay. We're still able to service and repair any tired units too. We also make a few other products that might be of interest... :)
Hi, I see there are both xlr and jack versions of this unit. Are the jack ones TRS balanced? Or does it not matter? Cheers
This video made my day! The 80s was a special time. Now understanding this technique on a song I have forever loved- it is much appreciated. Thank you.
It really was a special time. I’m planning to make a lot of videos which try to unpack why the pop songs from that era are lasting so well. There are so many factors which aren’t even specifically to do with music - limited studio time, producers going independent, financial pressure to have a hit - so hopefully this is going to be a fun ride! Thanks for watching. It’s very much appreciated.
Try this out = Get your favourite Electric Guitar and an
Ebow and play a long drawn-out part on the Guitar
using the Ebow and record two takes. Then pan each
take hard left & right then reverse the recordings of
the two parts and then insert the Drawmer Gate over
the stereo pair. When you hear the result you will feel
like the choir of Angles that speak for God are speaking
to you.
Haha - you’ve foreshadowed one of the things I’m going to show in another video I’m prepping for later in the year all about gating guitars! I’m currently trying to get my Ebow fixed - the blue light has stopped turning on - but what you’re describing is a wonderful effect.
And now I am fascinated.
Great! You’ve talked about the pet shop boys, new order, Duran Duran Vince Clarke and the smiths, now I just need the cure and OMD. Absolutely love your thorough videos on my favorite bands
Awesome! There’s a video coming that’s about a very interesting (and forgotten) production technique, and the example is indeed a well-known OMD track. I’ve even talked to the producer to double-check the technique. Videos featuring techniques used by bands like The Cure will probably come when the channel enters ‘Phase 2’ and I start to talk about sounds that aren’t made by synths ;) I promise you, this is all coming. Remember this channel is only just past being three months old! (I can hardly believe it myself)
I really love hearing you ramble on about the past and about the production techniques. It's so absorbing and your experience is very well received.
Thank you so much!
This is amazing! I have always wanted to capture the emotion of gated chords and failed because of it sounding too clinical. Thanks so much for this video!
So pleased you like it! Your experience is exactly the same as mine - there’s probably more magic in the Drawmers that the points I mention in the bideo( for example the preamps, some slight distortion on the waveforms when the attack kicks in, and the fact the two sides of the stereo are set slightly differently) but they really do sound amazing! Thank you for watching and commenting - I really appreciate it.
You should make sure there’s movement in the chords too or a phaser/flanger can be good
That’s absolutely true. I would probably do that at the mix stage because I’ve run into trouble before when I tracked sounds with slow sweeps and then had to either do a drop in or dupe the part. But slow sweeps are lovely on this sort of thing…
As a child of the 80s (79 born) this sound is ingrained in my consciousness. Really love it. Great video. Thanks. We also seem to have started at the same time with the same version of Ableton. Crikey not far off twenty years now and I'm still no " Power User. " Best regards. PK
So glad you like the video! I pretty much became a power user and even ended up writing my own Max4Live devices but then went over to the dark side with another DAW that’s pretty much the opposite of Ableton. So now I track in that, process midi in Ableton, but do all my production in a hardware sequencer. I find the latter so refreshing and extremely fast, which you probably saw in the video. It’s also not that expensive when you consider that, unlike plugins, the gear probably retains its value. But you def need a lot more space and, sometimes, a bit more patience - nothing like staring at a rack wondering why you can’t hear anything to get you to question your choices ;) Thank you so much for watching, and for the comment.
@@DistortThePreamp The Dark Side of DAWS hmm? I won't ask. Are you familiar with the band Ozric Tentacles? I've been a major fan for about 30 years although sadly their last few efforts have been underwhelming. I mention them because they make great use of ethereal, mesmerising gated pads, and swirling synth lines. I've been trying to get close to the sound for yonks but it's beyond my capabilities I think. If you don't know them please have a listen to any of their pre-2000s work. I think you'd enjoy it.
Oh yes, I (obv) know Ozric Tentacles! Very interesting sound. Once this channel settles down I’ll be expanding beyond synths into guitar textures so watch this space :)
Lucky to randomly find this. Great video
Oh wow -- is that the famous CZcams algorithm at work, or were you searching for something? Really great that you found it! Thanks for watching, and really appreciate the comment!
Amazing channel! Looking forward to more videos like this.
Thank you! That’s very kind 🙏
Great video. You got it at the end. Sounds beautiful. I can understand you very well. The re are some things in music or any other art stuff that haunt you for decades until you get answers how it was done.
Thanks for making this video. I own 2 Drawmer Ds201 and 1 Drawmer mx40 gates. They are fantastic. Not as useful as they used to be at one time but there's a reason they are racked up by my synths. Panning effects are also a very cool using 2 Drawmer Ds201's and alternating key sources. The MX40 does something special to any percussive element. It adds something to the transients and makes drums more punchy. Love Drawmer products.
So pleased you like the video! Have you seen my previous video about using the DS201 for dawless kick ducking? There’s a third video coming too which is all about using the DS201 for various ‘special effects’ - I won’t spoil it, but they all come from producers I know who were active in the 80s. Your panning effect is one of them (you can also at a pinch set one side to duck, though I tend to prefer the method you mention of unlinking the channels and using two triggers). You can also obv run one trigger through a delay etc etc etc. I really am soooo pleased you like the video, especially being a Drawmer fan :)
Oh man, I would have listened to this in 1986-87 in the US and been enamored with your band! This is amazing work your doing mate, thank you! Also, +100 for your watch!
Thank you! That’s so kind! And I’m really glad you appreciate the watch 😂
The demo tape sound, wow! That’s the kind of music that defines my generation ❤
That’s so kind! It’s funny because the demo extract was supposed to be an example of the sound not working, but *a lot* of people loved it anyway 😂
Bro...that is LEGIT 80's sound. 🔥🔥🔥
Cubase has a midigate.
Secret tip : I also use it to trigger gated sends to a delay or reverb
That’s a great idea! You *would not believe* how sloppy midi can get even with modern equipment made a few years ago, but using it for sends is perfect! Really appreciate your watching the video and commenting :-)
@@DistortThePreamp people often comment about MIDI being sloppy but I've never experienced that. I used to slave my Atari to my Tascam 244 (I added a dbx bypass switch) and it was always tight enough for me.
I know it could be problematic for PCs (especially Windows 3.1) but I've never used MIDI on a PC.
These days (ignoring the internal operations of my MPC) I just use MIDI to sync hardware sequencers or layer synths, again with no noticeable problems. I never chain MIDI. I built myself a MIDI Thru box soon after getting the Atari.
The intro synth to Visage’s “The Damned Don’t Cry” uses this effect.
Yes it does! I love that record!
Using a special device as in the Blade Runner movie I was able to zoom in the secret bass screen and I can see it says:
PLAY SINGLE
I21 Lately Bass
OT: If you like Drawmers, grab a DL221. I guarantee you will love it!!
Hahahaha! Actually ‘C15 LatelyBass’ but I have no idea how you did that! It’s the Yamaha TX81Z which is a vintage FM synth, a bit like the DX7 only much worse. It’s one redeeming feature is that on bank C patch 15 is one of the most amazing bass sounds ‘LatelyBass’ or simply ‘Lately’. It’s been used by everybody and is all over Pet Shop Boys records, New Order, etc. There are a few CZcams videos about it but none goes into the difference playing rather than programming it makes, so I’m probably going to make one.
Also, 100% in the DL221. Such an amazing company!
@@DistortThePreamp It was my lame attempt making a joke. :)))) I own TX81Z and really like it. There is another bass that can be imported into it, originates from DX100 and is absolutely all over Detroit techno and UK house. It's called Solid Bass, similar to Lately but harder. Factory SYX bank will have it: Group 2 Preset 01
Oh sorry! It’s been a long day and I’m feeling really frazzled. Yeah, I know Solid Bass and it’s great. As you say, its a little ‘hardier’ but still really good. However the thing I’ve grown to love about Latelt is what happens when you play it softly - you get sooo much bass. It’s a really good patch to play wirh your hands and get loads of articulation in terms of the hardness of the sound. If I’m lazy I’ll play in a 4 bar phrase and repeat it, but if possibly I always try to track in (to the sequencer) as long as take as possible.
@@DistortThePreamp Agreed! BTW there is another cool "gate" out there. Waldorf Pulse+ (Plus), though mono input. But gives full envelope shaping for some creative gating. It gates from the MIDI which saves a few cables and has LFO controlled stereo panner. As a synth it is VERY beefy. A true sleeper, IMO.
Very interesting… will check out…
Very cool, I'll be cringing a bit now every time I use an LFO for my gated pads! :)
Hahah! Don’t cringe too much - that’s what a lot of people do ;) If I had to make gated pads in the box I would probably use an envelope tool to, rather than a gate plugin. Either that or find a way of drawing in some kind of volume automation. LFO Tool and Shaper Box are pretty good and both let you trigger off a key. Although they don’t sound quite the same as the real thing…
One of my favorite tutorial videos to date
That’s very kind! There’s amother Drawmer gate video I’m due to make about special tricks, but my production schedule is very backed up… 🙈
Verry nice tutorials! Keep up the good work( vibe)!
Thank you very much! That’s very kind :)
Seems like this video really took off! There's not enough new wave/post punk synth and production content on CZcams. Thanks for being here and making videos!
That's a very kind thing to say! I've got a very long production list of videos to make but hopefully I'll be able to get on a regular schedule... Thanks for watching, caring, and commenting :-)
Yeah I’m enjoying the different focus of this channel…trying to see the glass half full and all, but it would be so much more inspiring and useful for my personal taste if more synth geek vids weren’t geared to techno bangers and “atmospheric” stuff! I like those things too, just nice to find some variety 😊
Oh my goodness! You found out what I asked myself for ages! Whot ay naaise video!
Thank you so, so much!!!
This makes me very, very happy! Thank you so much for watching, and for the comment!
omg! im so happy to see someone who is also obsessed with that new order intro sound. when i was a kid, i used to ask my dad, who was also a musician, “what is that sound?”. he said that it was probably an arpeggiator. i wasn’t able to play with an arp til i was in my late teens. tho i loved it, i knew that wasn’t it. it wasn’t until recently i figured it was a gate. thanks for sharing this! although i think the sound being gated isn’t a continuous pad. to me it sounds like a patch that has a bit of sustain and release, coz if you listen to the record, the last bits of the gated sound sort of dies down, sounding a bit like a delay. so i think it’s probably not a continuous pad. just my opinion. 🙂 cheers!
That’s an interesting observation - I’m going to listen forensically. I actually haven’t put this on for years and did it from memory so, although I’m pretty sure the parts or approximately right, I may also have got the rhythm wrong. Before I listen I’m going to double down on my guess that it’s a continuous sound being gated, partly down to Hague’s production methods. Then again, I’m hearing gates everywhere now - when I was playing the background music against my commentary I was turning the blend (range) knob up and down and suddenly heard the Chariots of Fire intro which I’m now convinced was Vangelis playing his CS-80 through a rhythmic gate with a low blend. I can’t be sure, but the sound is very convincing. Really appreciate you watching and your comment very much!
Just listened to it and I’m pretty sure it’s a gate over chords that change every bar, but with a faint quarter note delay. The reason I think it’s a gate is that I think I can hear that the first stab of every bar has a slightly different attack, and the delay is obvious once you listen to it :) Having said that, it sounds quite different to my version and the version in my head. Amusingly I prefer the sound of my gated pads, at least compared to the version on Brotherhood. I will now wash my mouth out with soap and water 🤣
Great video! New Order! I just picked up a Drawmer Ds201 because of your videos.
Oh that’s amazing! Pretty sure it will hold its value too. Let me know if the pots are scratchy (ie if you get a scratchy sound when you turn them) as that is a very easy fix. I’m going to do at least one more video on the DS201 about special studio effects, but I might also do a fourth specifically about gating guitars! Thank you so much for watching…
@@DistortThePreamp Congrats on a successful video!!! Can't wait for your next one. Just got my Drawmer today. Haven't set it up yet but if it makes a scratchy sound I'll let you know.
This is so great! Sorry my videos are coming out a bit slowly. I’ve literally got a list of the next twenty and I want to be doing about 2 or 3 a week but I’m slightly struggling to do 1 a week at the moment! That’s for the supportive words though.
Bought 2x DS201 (XLR versions) back in 89, they're so useful, even today. The Butterworth key filters are superb for mixing, they can bracket sounds within the mix like nothing else,
- also, I've never had an issue with either unit.
Same can be said for all the Drawmer DL compressors I still have too, and their dynamic noise filter, the DF320. If I want punch I use my dbx units, and I then process the dbx units through a DL241, or 251, to bring back the meat and weight that the dbx process always tends to eat up a little bit.
Those Crimson equalisers are also very underrated, I have a couple of the fully parametric versions, the 3012 ones.
Such an interesting comment! I spoke to Drawmer (the company) before making this video and they confirmed that there were only ever a couple of revisions to the DS201 back in the day which were to do with the unbalanced/balanced connectors, and essentially the unit has been in continuous production since it was introduced with no changes (apart from when components had to be changed because old components were no longer available). I find it hilarious that the only differences between my units are the logo alignment :) As a matter of interest, which dbx compressor(s) do you have? And it’s amazing that you have the 3012 EQ. A producer friend has the Indigo which is like mine only tube instead of solid state and he likes to drive it. As you say, it’s underrated, like a lot of the TLA stuff. I use mine pretty much exclusively for adding 1-2dB of 8k (shelf) when tracking vocals. It’s nothing special, but it does the job fine. Thank you so much for watching, and for commenting!
@@DistortThePreamp Hey there, - regarding the dbx units, my current favourite is the 166A,- I have one earlier model, with the external metal XLR fixing plates, and one second gen, - the second generation sounds slightly cleaner, but that's probably just age more than anything else. I know many knock the lower cost dbx units, but I'm really into heavy Electronica, and for that purpose they are perfect, especially drums, individual or buss. One of my favourite artists/producers is Jack Dangers of *Meat Beat Manifesto,* and I learned in the early 90s that he used an old dbx118 to get a particular drum sound, and it was a sound I really liked, so over the 90s I picked up 2x 118 units myself, - they're essentially the poor mans dbx160vu.
I later heard he had used 166A units on his album *Subliminal Sandwich,* so I had to get a couple. I use all my dbx processors as, essentially, transient shapers, I just really like the process, - but I know many hate it, they find the way they "slam the drums" too much.
I also bought a 1066, probably early 2000s, which I didn't gel with for years, but over the last 10 years or so I've found them quite useful, the trick with the 1066 is to barely let the gain reduction meter show any action, one or two red LEDs showing is all one wants, - the threshold and ratio controls on the dbx1066 really don't appear to follow the markings around each control, so keeping a low Ratio and high Threshold is the only way I've found, personally, to make good use of them, - but set up just right, they can sound very much like the 166A, just a little clearer, - so I now have 2 of them also.
I bought a 166xl, just to see, - absolute rubbish really, - to get the classic dbx action, the compressor needs to work fluidly in *Auto* mode, - the 166xl really craps out in this regard.
so out of what I've got,
1. 166A
2. 118
3. 1066
4. 166xl - avoid at all costs
- but like I mentioned previously, they do suck some of the weight out of the sound, apart from the 118 units, which do, but nowhere near as bad. So, to get the sound I really want out of the 166A and the 1066 units, - I will either follow them with a Drawmer DL compressor, which really thickens the sound back up, or, what is more common, for me, as I tend to work from a top down approach, - I just strap a Drawmer DL251 over the main buss inserts, after an equaliser, and mix into that, while having a 166A, etc set up on a stereo buss drum group, - that way what ever I'm doing with the dbx units within the desk, they're already hitting some of that Drawmer meat, iykwim.
And, as I always say when posting on forums,
- I ain't no professional, just another idiot with enough money to spend on toys that feed my autistic need for sonic manipulation.
love to ALL
Very interesting. I had a 166XL too and it sounded terrible. The only use I ever found for it was to add punch to organ transients and, well, that’s not much of a reason to keep it. I love the dbx sound which as you might know is mainly to do with the fact that the detection circuit works on RMS rather than peak. It surprises me how few people in CZcamsLand understand the difference this makes, but it’s really critical to the way they slam drums and pin a vocal. The 1176 is obviously peak, and don’t get me started on the LA-2A. I think I’m going to make an entire video about how the latter is literally destroying vocals because it’s release time of 15s means that the compressor doesn’t reset between lines. So your drop ins are compressed differently. Blah blah blah. ;)
Bro, what is going on with this channel?
IT'S FRICKING GREAT!
Wow, we live in the best time for information and learning. I'm so glad I came across this. This is gold for anyone getting into synths and hardware. Heck, it's gold for anyone who is in love with understanding how music is/was made.
I'm 50 years old and I absolutely love trying to produce music. Spent more than half of my life playing multiple instruments in bands. Not the best musician but not the worst - I know a few chords. For the last couple years I have been consumed with learning how to mixing music and produce with affordable analog synths. I bought a Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK mixing board... It is slowly changing my life. I also have that Arturia Keystep Pro connected to a bunch of stuff. It's a lot of fun. I could go on and on..... Ha!
Also, I see that Behringer TR3. I have the MonoPoly, RD-8 and the VC340. If I would have never bought that first Behringer synth I would not be on this video right now.
Glad I found this channel! Its really great!
MUSICIANS UNITE, and CREATE!!!!!!!!!!
LETS GO!
Thank you so much for this awesome comment! My main problem is that the videos are taking too long, but hopefully I will be able to solve that soon :) The Soundcraft boards have always been great. You just need the space for it 😂 I often wish I had an RD-8 and will definitely get one. Even when I’m using my Roland R8 I rely on my RD-9 hats but I often really want 808 hats or snare. And samples are *not the same*. Really appreciate you watching and your very, very kind comment which is inspiring :)
Your videos are a wealth of knowledge, absolutely spot on!
That’s a very kind thing to say! Thank you!
The drawmer made a „Click“ Impulse when opening and sometimes closing which gave the sound an impulse that you couldn’t get from instruments, while new sound
That’s exactly correct - it affects the transient and it’s particularly noticeable on softer sounds :) Reallt appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment. Thanks Murray :)
man this is epic ,this gate is class, so snappy
Now that is the truth! So fast! Crazy to think that they’ve been making them since the 80s without any changes - it’s a very classy product.
@@DistortThePreamp I could have 3 of these i used for drums im really looking forward to trying them on synths, thanks so much for sharing, love the relaxed vibe of your videos. 10/10
Thanks! I’ve got three and I wish I had another three 😂
Another superb video that explains something I’ve always been wondering about! And another fantastic mic decoration 😂
been chasing this sound for a minute. happy to have found your video.
Oh that’s amazing! It’s such an emotional sound - precise and organic at the same time. So happy that you enjoyed the video!
You are such a talented story teller 👍
That’s a very kind thing to say! Thank you :)
tip for Cubase users: you can do this with the "Midi Gate" Plugin - you can trigger Midi notes live to gate and stuttering the audio track!
Was just about to mention the Shamen, glad you included them too! Big users of the gated sound and guitar-driven synths.
I knew a whole load of engineers who used to refer to using key triggers on the Drawmer as 'Shamen mode'! Did I already make this comment? My brain is addled -- I'm having CZcams upload problems 😣. So the Shamen records I have use the Drawmers on guitars which makes them sound like a synth -- Move and Mountain is a really good example of this. Is that what you mean by guitar-driven synths? Or were they routing guitars through synth filters? Such huge talent.
@@DistortThePreamp I think in live shows they made use of the Roland GR707 as well. But yeah, as soon as I heard your demos of the drawmers my mind went straight to some of their classic tracks.
Oh that’s interesting. I actually saw them when they were still a band called Alone Again Or support The Associates. Even then they were pretty great.
I just wish I could give another thumbs up every time I watch this.
Oh wow, that’s an awesome thing to say! Thank you so much!
86 is 38 years ago, thank you very much :P
Hahaha. Quite ;)
Oh l. ok! Math capability!
Amazing video! Youre super entertaining!
That’s very kind, thank you! This is a very new channel so I’m still finding my feet, and I really appreciate comments like this 🙏
Ohhh, New Order, Bizarre love triangle, lovely!😍😍
Yes! I actually still haven’t checked my version against the original, so apologies if some of the parts aren’t quite right. And I think I’m specifically remembering the Stephen Hague mix from a Factory sampler tape - that’s the version that’s burned into my memory, mainly because of the gated arps. It was so fun to remake that I’m thinking I might do live streams whereby people suggest synthpop songs and I program them up on the fly… what do you think?
@@DistortThePreamp Definitely my friend. Great fun idea.
Appreciate this feedback. I’m getting a lot of really nice comments, but I’m definitely going to be looking for a steer from viewers!
Your channel is really inspiring. ❤
The hardware gates sound awesome: musical and punchy. I think plugins can't achieve that. At least I don't know any with such quality.
As you are a big fan of gates, as me, I recommend Ken Hiwatt Marshall's video about Radio-Gator. He is an audio engineer and works a lot for Skinny Puppy. He also makes heavy use of creative gating-techniques. Maybe you can draw something out of it. Enjoy. 🎉
Oh my gosh, I was taken back to my youth😮. I saved up months, from my meagre earnings, for a Korg ms20 synth. (I went on to update much later with a Juno and a few others), I’ll have to dust of the ms20 for old times sake, my husband will be over the moon with that 😂.Thanks for this slice of wonderful nostalgia🎉
The MS20 is a wonderful synth! Have you still got the Juno and the others?
getting a drawmer immediately thanks
It's a bobby dazzler of a sound. The first time I heard gated sounds like that was on Strawberry Switchblade's Another Day (1985 incidently) and it blew my mind. So glad I subbed.
Oh amazing! Do you know ‘Since Yesterday’ also by Strawberry Switcgbkade? The whole track is gated at the end of the middle section. Such a cool sound!
@@DistortThePreamp Yes, It does sound gorgeous and it's on the same album produces by David Motion & Phil Thornally. You're doing a fantastic job keep up the brilliant work.
Liking the style of your videos - can't think of any other channels out there that gives the background, or a back story that explains why a sound was searched for. Keep it up, think you've got a niche here. Quality over quantity - the views will follow.
That’s really kind and a huge vote of confidence, and that’s exactly what I’m trying to do. Really appreciate you watching and the comment :)
Yes. Love the 80s synth pop sound.
It's such a great sound, right!
Thank you for sharing this great story
This sounds like a crossover between New Order and OMD❤
Such a huge compliment Colette! I'm a massive OMD fan and will definitely be doing some programming based on early OMD soon... Thanks for watching, and for the awesome comment!
Sounds great! Though having not had hands on one of these myself I do wonder why you can't do it with the built in gate (in Ableton, in my case - it's pretty good in my experience). Mostly just a "I don't have room for more rack gear right now" sort of thought, rather than trying to say anyone is doing things wrong (whatever way gives you the most joy is the right way!).
Edit: I've just tried it, and it does indeed work how I was expecting. I'll give you it doesn't quite have the immediacy of hardware, especially with a patch bay, as I had to: 1. configure my drum machine to send the rimshot channel to a separate output, removing it from the mix output; 2. set up a separate input channel in Ableton from my mixer, with the rimshot channel on it; 3. configure the default gate device for sidechain input set to the channel I just added; 4. play with the settings to make it sound good. Since it's sidechained audio straight from the drum machine which is my master clock, it is perfectly in sync as you might expect.
But once I was done, it did work. Does it sound as good as that hardware? I don't know, your video is my only experience with them. But I can't really tell the difference by my ears...
This is an excellent question and an excellent point. In truth, once you've got the sound it really doesn't sound much different, or maybe not different at all. The same is true for mid-range soft synths that mimic vintage synths with DCOs -- I can't really tell the difference between, say, a Tal-U-No soft synth and the Juno 60. What _is_ different however, as you allude to, is the workflow and the immediacy. I very much enjoy being able to 'throw up sounds' quickly on physical hardware, and that can make a difference in the kind of sounds you get. So with a physical gate like the Drawmer, for example, it's very easy for me to try the hold, try the decay, balance the two, then tune in the range. With plugins this process is a little tricker, but not impossible at all. BTW if you want to experiment, try using an Ableton rack to split the stereo into left and right, rig up a gate on each channel, map the gate controls to macros, but then have an extra macor which changes some of the parameters ever so slightly on one of the channels. I would start with the range, but the hold would be another one. A tiny amount of thise can make a mono sound much wider. So in conclusion, there's really nothing wrong soundwise with processing in the box, and it's a sensible choice. Just FWIW I do all of my editing and mixing 100% in the box. One final note: watch the 'noise solo' at 34:35 on my latest 'The Power of Noise' video where I play the Drawmer like an instrument. The head on shot is live but the side shot is from another take. This is tricky to do with plugins not because plugins don't sound good, but just because of the physicality of throwing knobs and switches around. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment!
@@DistortThePreamp I'm with you! I'm currently watching the noise video...
MIDI mapping parameters to a hardware controller is my usual way around what you say, but yes - while you can get somewhere eventually, just having the knobs in front of you ready to go makes a big difference (one reason I try to have my little studio set up with a default live set with everything mapped, my MIDI router pre-configured, etc).
Oh that’s perfect!
That music sounded new and alive, and it still works now.
I know, right! I It still sounds so fresh 40 years later. Appreciate you watching and the comment.
God i miss that decade.
You and me both. Unquestionably the best decade for music.
What's most amazing is the fast arps on the Proteus' awful strings actually sound good 😮
After decades of keeping my Proteus solely as a harsh reminder to never settle for less (once I'd settled and blown my savings on the E-mu, the desired Roland U-220 became unobtainable 😭) I am trying to rehabilitate it and find a few gems. It's actually quite a good match for controlling from my Roland AE-30 wind synth.
Oh I think the Proteus strings are amazing! They’re basically a port of Mercato strings from the Emulator. The trick is to play them like string parts. You’re going to laugh (given your comment) but they were the reason why I got the Proteus. They’re amazing for disco strings too if you play them in the right way!
@@DistortThePreamp I'll have to give them a try for disco strings. I'm currently developing a live jam inspired by classic disco/funk so thanks for the tip! With so many of these sounds it's a task of finding their hidden strengths! 😀
Rather than record them stereo, I tend to record them mono and double them. I know in this video I sequenced them, but I almost always play the strings parts. I mean violinists are nowhere near a grid right!
“Secret bass” is YamahaTX81Z with the Lately bass patch.
Haha! You win all of the prizes! 🏆 I don’t think it’s left that patch for years 😂 What not so many people know about that patch (unless they’ve got the unit themselves) is how well it responds to velocity. It’s an incredibly articulate sound - soft velocities are full with loads of low end, and harder velocity make it sort of ‘twang’. This is why I never programm it and always play it (albeit into a sequencer). When you see me fiddling about before I take the part I’m not only working out the notes, I’m also testing the right velocity for the song. Really appreciate you watching, and doing the inevitable reveal :)
...or a DX100 playing "Solid Bass"
@@leolovetopartySolid Bass is subtly different from Lately Bass.
@@infindebula interesting. I’ll have to research that. Most people who acquire a DX100, do so 99% for this patch…
Yes it is :)
Great video, story and impressive live demo!
Thank you! I really appreciate this. Don’t think this is a canned response - I’m still quite overwhelmed by the positive responses. The whole channel was started in mid March. It’s all very new.
I really appreciate that you do things by feel and spirit. Like a recreation or homage maybe should be an expression of one's own unique ear and individuality. The Fantasy string's part for example, so exhilarating to hear.
Oh my god, i want a copy of your 80s demo!!! 😍 Your gated sound was its own thing, and the problem about the 80s vs now is that there's a wider range of appreciation of sounds that aren't 100% what they set out to be. I heard emotions in your demo. It was coming from a different direction. It almost trailblazing in that there was a hint of later indie rock
That’s extremely kind! I think the rights to the recordings were owned by somebody else but I’ve considered doing a remake ever since I found the demo tape a couple of years ago. There’s a funny story about a house that I used to own in a famous university town, a bass player in a world famous rock band, and a carrier bag that eventually showed up 20 years later with this demo tape. I literally had to buy a cassette deck and use Izotope RX to recover the audio. At the time I think we made the gated guitar sound using a Yamaha FX500 multi-effects unit and triggering the gate via midi. It wasn’t perfect, and it wasn’t quite the sound we were going for, but it was definitely a mood. Ah, if only we’d had the internet… Really appreciate your kind words, and thank you for watching!
You're so welcome..I have done the exact same process with my cassette demos. And what a wonderful story you shared. I was in the Bay area at the same time, but everything you said there brought me back to that era having musical adventures as such. Only yours sounded more larger scale..but still..man. what a time to have been alive in
So true, so true
Sick video, man.
Thanks! Really appreciate the comment :)
Good video. The Shamen used this a lot. I was never sure about how they did it but I figured it wasn't chopping the samples - too much effort to be used so much.
That’s exactly right! The used exactly this gate - the Drawmer DS201. The main rhythmic lead sound on Move Any Mountain (that goes x-x-x-xx-xx-x-x-) is actually Will’s guitar through the gate with an external trigger doing the rhythm. The used it so much that engineers used to call using the gate in this way “putting it in Shamen mode” 😂
Great video. Back in the 90s I had a couple of different Tascam mixers (at different times) which had MIDI mutes on the channels that I used for gating. Although with MIDI being a bit slow, you'd had have to move the trigger sound forward a 1/96th note as to not lose the attack. The Yamaha digital mixers did it really well too with their built in gates. That all said, I'll take your word for it that the Drawmer's the best!
This has been ever so slightly controversial, but I stand by it :) MIDI gates are such a great idea in theory - and I used to use them - but they’re not fast or consistent enough to keep strict time. That’s not necessarily a problem, but it usually is. A few people have been noting that there are “other gates” and of course there are. But those Drawmers are built like tanks, haven’t changed design for 40 years, and are still in production. It’s also the only gate I used to see racked up in ‘proper’ studios. Really appreciate you watching, and for the comment :)
When you started talking about you history in music, i was waiting for a daft punk song to come on at any moment, but it mever did... it never did...😂
Hahaha! That should be in a video I’ve got planned about oscillator sync sounds and aggressive buss compression 🤣 Hopefully the New Order track wasn’t too much of a let down ;)
Used to use the DS201 for the live stuff when big analogue mixers and racks of outboard was a thing. Was an industry standard on all the rider specs.
Did repair the last of what we had kicking about which got sold on, the FET used for the actual audio attenuation was obsolete but i managed to find some NOS. These where quite a common failure along with the pots wearing out, which again where an oddity but Drammer always had good stock of them.
There were a few classic rack unit's of the time that everyone had in that world.
Oh is the FET now obsolete? Surely Drawmer still use FETs, no? Fascinating if they don’t. At some stage I’ll go up to Sheffield and see if I can get to look around the factory…
@@DistortThePreamp I just had a look into it. Looks like the 2N4091 is the one that gets used today which is available. I remember at the time i had a real problem sourcing replacements as they weren't readily available.
I can't remember off hand what the original spec'd one was. This single fet is what's doing the actual gating of the audio. I think they still might be making them, I've seen like at least 3 different production versions of the 201 where parts changed. If you manage to get a look around the factory that would make a good video if they allow it. I think they probably would be OK with it, they were always a friendly bunch to deal with.
Yes, very friendly :) I contacted them for research before I made the video and they were very helpful. Basically the unit hasn’t changed since it was introduced apart from the balanced/unbalanced thing and substitute componsents when old ones no longer were available. I’m going to Sheffield in the next few weeks and I’m sure they’ll let me drop in :)
@@DistortThePreamp Don't forget your camera :)
Yes! It’s funny to think that if I’d started the channel a year before I did I’m sure I would have been able to interview Ivor Drawmer himself. But the guys I’ve spoken to there have been working there for 30+ years. Proper continuity, proper manufacturing, and proper quality.
Your Dawless setup is fascinating but I'm not sure if I would ever have the patience for it. :) Incidentally, I keep stumbling on videos talking about gating sounds based on percussion. I recently saw the same technique about the Prince song 'Kiss". Hats off for using the NO song as inspiration. No complaints there.
Yes, I know that video and it *really* surprises me as it would have been much easier to gate off a trigger sound that copied the hi-hat rhythm. After all, the hats were programmed on a Linn, right? In my experience although hats have enough attack for a gate trigger the unpredictable decay doesn’t give you enough control when gating. Having said that the Linn hat sound is actually itself a continuous loop with a VCA that opens and closes so now I’m writing this it’s probably fine 😂 You make an interesting point about dawless setups. I’m not recommending them but I certainly work *a lot * faster than I used to when I was programming in the daw. I also like the way that it keeps me in a ‘right brain’ state of mind - I came to believe that working in a daw made me more on an engineer and less of a player/produver. Though who knows 😂 Really appreciate you watching, and the comment…
The perfect Pet Shop Boys sound! 👍
By the way... The Damned Don't Cry... 😉
Absolutely The Damned Don’t Cry! I thought that was too obscure to mention but it’s an excellent example. Once you know the Drawmer character you can even hear that it’s specifically a Drawmer gate because there’s a slight thump to the transient which for some reason I don’t hear with plugin gates. Go figure.
That was really interesting. Subscribed. 👍👍
So pleased! Thank you :)
There are so many ways to do this in a DAW now. All midi, or using midi to control audio, or audio to control audio. And I like to play with track delay just in case it feels like it needs to come forward a bit.
Yes there are. Track delay is a very good trick. The one thing that I find difficult with daws is playing in real time. It’s not quite impossible, but it feels very different. And obviously the more complex the session, the more accumulated latency. So what started as an issue with sound is really mainly an issue with playability. If you programme stuff then this isn’t an issue. But if you want to play in your parts and ‘tune in the gates’ so you are responding to them then for now it’s still a problem. Having said that, when ever I add gates to stuff once I’m in the box and use plugins it does sound different. Not necessarily worse, just different. I think it’s down to the way an analog gates produces distortion when it clamps down on the volume. Who knows. But certainly doing everything inside a daw is legitimate.
@@DistortThePreamp Best thing I've tried for live playing is the arpeggiator/sequencer on the NI FM8. Don't know why it just feels good and can reset when you play new notes etc. Shame you can't tap tempo it outside of a DAW. Maybe you can i'm not sure.
It's amazing that thing you described where you can try 1000 different ways to do something, every one of them exactly the same on paper, but its just NEVER right! Then when you find the thing you're looking for and you can't describe why it's right, it just is🤦♂️🤣
Fantastic video. I'm only halfway through so far but I'm loving the way you explain this - which resonates immensely with me as also a lifelong (more like off/on) maker of electronic / synthy pop music, having been enthralled emotionally by those wondrous 80s synth-pop gems. For me, growing up in the early 00s, the first thing like this I had was the "Slicer" effect on my Yamaha DJXII Keyboard - it basically did the slicing right (symmetrical patterns only), but with obnoxious clicks at the start/stop. And then my Roland D2 (MC-505 knock-off) Groovebox also had slicer DSP, and the Korg MicroKorg had the arpeggio with the 8 buttons (representing steps you can turn on/off)....in 2015 ish I returned to trying to make this effect with Logic Pro 9's Sculpture software instrument, it had a "groove delay".
When I recently got the Behringer K2 (Korg MS-20), I started using the drum signal as a CV input controlling the LPF (or alternatively, as the gate trigger) and that got me 90% there, I was loving it. Now, seeing your video, I want to do your method which may be a smidge better.
omg you're right, these Drawmer gates are totally available cheaply online! Not for long...
Your 80s band was 110% legit! Nice!
Man that demo sounds cool!
This is such an unexpected response! A few people have said the same thing and it wasn’t what I was expecting at all. All I can say is that record companies didn’t agree in 1989 😂 Thanks for watching - really appreciate it :)
all I can say it’s brilliant!
That's *really* kind! I've been slightly overwhelmed by all the comments, but I'm working hard to produce more content... :-)
So I looked at the manual of the Drawmer Ds201 and it looked like the gate signal is an audio signal that controls the gating and not a gate signal... my Quadraverb also does gating but it gets sent midi signal. But now i'm fascinated by the possibility of drone/noise gated rhythms cheers!! And now i'm looking for a Drawmer DS201.
Yes :) I’ve used all sorts of audio triggers. Very short square waves, but also squares out of a synth so that I can control the gate length. It’s a lot of fun!
Software: Logic x - Step FX - just use the Gate - adjust gate shape to taste - use on any instrument
Yea, I feel like it would sound the same honestly.
To be honest it might sound exactly the same once you've dialled it in. But check out the 'noise solo' at 34:35 on the recent 'The Power of Noise' video. This kind of thing isn't for everyone, but it's a little hard to do with plugins. Not that I'm hating on DAWs or plugins -- I'm 100% in the box for mixing and editing. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
Oh, the good old Fostex Monitors. 😃
Very well spotted, especially since the logo is covered up with black tape! Had them for years and they sound totally fine. I’ve never ever had a problem with my mixes not being balanced and that, I think, is the ultimate test. I think it’s important that producers don’t listen to arguments that imply that better monitors or room correction are some kind of silver bullet that will fix their tracks. I believe the trick is to get real good source recordings at which point everything really takes care of itself and you need minimal processing. Just like the bad old days. Thanks for watching - really appreciate it!
I want that watch man! 🤩
Hahaha! It was a present but I think it was a street price of about £30 😂
You can do this using the stock gate in ableton. All the controls you need are there including the few extras the drawmer doesn't have. The hardware is fun though and at £75 I might grab one. Some further experiments you should consider for a part 2 of this video is adding delay and reverb. Try adding reveb before the gate. After the gate. And before and after the gate. use delay after the gate. I learned a lot of these tricks when I coincidentally covered BLT as well. It's on my soundcloud if you want to have a listen.
That’s a great point about reverb before the gate and delay after - that’s exactly what I do (when I do it). Reverb after the gate just gets too mushy and detracts from the rhythm. The only reverb I add to gated pads in the mix is a very short ‘ambience’ (like the old 480L patch) though even that is often too much for my taste. And bouncing dotted 8s delays can sound lovely on the gated sound. One way to have a bit more fun in the box if you’re not using hardware is to split the channel into left and right (in Ableton you’d use a rack), gate each side from the same key trigger, but have ever so slightly different parameters on the gates. You could even rig up a macro to dial in the amount of variation. This after all is what’s happening out of the box because I never even both trying to get the left and right channels the same, and this includes the range which in effect is the blend. Maybe that’s one of the reasons why it feels like it widens the image? Really appreciate your watching and taking time to comment. I’ll check out your SoundCloud…
Cracking job
Very much appreciated!
For those who might be a bit impatient the process links are in the description which you can click directly to. Then you can return to the introduction and back story at your leisure.
DAWLESS PROGRAMMING AND GATE SETUP
13:17 Timer starts
13:34 Basic drums
14:15 Setting up the trigger key for the gates
15:04 Gated pads and classic Drawmer DS201 setup
16:15 Moog bass
16:55 Strings
19:34 Fantasy
20:10 Slap bass
20:49 FM bass
21:18 Snare fill
22:30 Orch stab
Cool stuff!! Thanks for sharing
Thanks Brian! Appreciate you watching, and the comment :)
I think I learned about the technique from Mixmaster Morris talking about his 1992 album Flying High which is extensively based on rhthmic gating of samples. Maybe he got it from The Shamen.
Great album - and yes its all over it! Also tons on the Orbs stuff from that period
That’s entirely possibly. Apparently after Move any Mountain engineers used to talk about putting the Drawmer ‘in Shaman mode’ 😂
Absolutely - Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld etc
Thanks for sharing this knowledge.
That’s such a nice thing to say! Really appreciate you watching :)
Two things spring out at me here. First is the first time I heard the gated synth sound was on Visage's The Damned Don't Cry from 1982 (I was 14).
Second is when I started my career in the electronics industry a couple of years later, it was in printed circuit board manufacture and assembly. One of our regular customers was Drawmer electronics. So I probably made and/or assembled some of the electronics and the circuit boards in those 201s in 1985/86 to 1990. If I'd have known then what I was making (I was a huge synth music fan) I would have probably bought one. All hand assembled and soldered together by hand too.
I absolutely love that record and still play it all the time. I considered using it as the example but it’s not as well known. I didn’t know the Drawmers were assembled by hand but it makes perfect sense - I’ve opened all mine up and the build quality is outstanding! Really appreciate you watching and commenting.
Oh I should have mentioned - don’t know if you’ve watched the latest video about synth bass but that’s (obviously) a photograph of the whole of Visage outside Blitz Club right at the top of the video. So not only Steve Strange but John McGeoch, Rusty Egan, a very young looking Midge Ure, the whole gang…
@@DistortThePreamp Yes, I have watched it. That is what led me on to this video. 🙂
Amazing!
I love rhythmic synth patches.
I know, right! Totally hypnotic!
I subscribed because all these years I wonder what happened with all those amazing 80's synth pop producers. They vanished from the face of this planet or what ? In my country British synth pop groups were soo crazy popular in the 80's and 90's
Listen to “Is There Something I Should Know” “New Moon on Monday” or “The Reflex” by Duran Duran. Same pad gated effect in 1983. From Ian Little :
"One of the things that I did was get a pad synth sound, put it through a Drawmer gate on an external trigger, and then have the gate triggered off a percussive part like a side-stick which was already being played or programmed specifically to trigger the gate. Sequencers were still pretty new and cumbersome in those days, so this provided an alternative way of getting a pulsed synth sound, but the type of sound was also very, very different. If it's sequenced, each note is being triggered individually, whereas a pad that is held down for a sustained sound that is then gated and triggered is a totally different animal, because there's no attack at the front of each note other than that provided by the gate opening. The Drawmer was the first gate I used that had frequency selectivity, and that meant you could really isolate the part of the rhythm that you wanted to accent. What's more, the attack and release times on the gate could totally change the character of the pulse that you heard. This was something that I introduced to Nick and you can hear it both on 'Is There Something I Should Know?' and 'The Reflex'; more like an organic version of a sequenced line, being more rounded while boasting a certain degree of randomness."
Excellent point! Well done for finding this. I’m a huge Nick Rhodes fan and the first three Duran albums. This is funny because I normally reckon myself to be something of a Drawmer Gate spotter but I always thought those were just sequences. Also this might be one of the earliest examples since it was either recorded late in 82 or early in 83 and the DS201 was only released in 82. So the unit would have been very recent. And the technique is exactly correct - you trigger of a percussive part like a side stick (or 808 rim shot) and make a played or programmed part specifically to trigger the gate. I’ve also just realised why I might not have clocked it at the time (I’m editing my original answer to you). I have a memory of seeing Nick Rhodes perform Union of the Snake on Toonof the Pops and noticing how his was playing (ie miming) the rhythmic chord part. At the time, and being a classical piano player, I remember thinking ‘How does he do that and keep it so tight?’ Now I realise it was pure stage craft.
Really appreciate your watching and for the comment! About referring to 1986 in the title/thumbnail - really I suppose that was a direct reference to New Order’s ‘Bizarre Love Triangle’ and there was quite a lot of this going on before. Cocteau Twins ‘Heaven or Las Vegas’ album for example, and if course a very famous indie guitar song with an iconic opening that the (also very famous) guitarist explained took them ages because they had to get the vibrato in time whereas in fact he was fibbing and the sound was made using a triggered Drawmer gate. Note: I’m only not mentioning the track by name because I’m going to do a video on it and I don’t want this comment to come up if somebody searches for the song name, but it was done in 1984, produced by John Porter, and I mentioned the band in the opening of my recent ‘Noise’ video ;) Really appreciate your comment!
You should also check out Since Yesterday (Strawberry Switchblade) from 1985. Phil Thornally (the producer who was also actually _in_ The Cure at the time) strapped a Drawmer DS201 over the whole mix for an absolutely iconic effect the end of the middle eight.
btw -- I know exactly how Nick Rhodes did the arpeggios in Rio and I'm considering making a video about that, plus some other basic arp playing techniques. Sound interesting?
@@DistortThePreamp YES!! please.
Masterclass, cheers!
Thanks Allan! That’s a very kind thing to say! So glad you liked the video :)
Back in around 1998 I had great success achieving this effect using the built-in gates on the Yamaha ProMix 01.
Oh that's a great bit of kit. One of my theories about analog gear versus plugins is that all the preamps in the chain make a significant difference in aggregate. The ProMix 01 would have sounded great I suspect.
@@DistortThePreamp Well the gates did an awesome job. It was super easy to assign a gate to a channel and assign a different channel as sidechain, then all the controls were there for attack, release, depth. I was too inexperienced to realize how crappy its EQ was though.
Oh brilliant! Lol about the EQ
any suggestions on similar devices when a dawmer isn't available?
Absolutely. Depends if you want hardware or plugins. For hardware which is best for real time playing (because there’s no latency) you could have a look at the Boss Slicer Pedal. It’s a slightly different effect but a great vibe. Plus, remember that most hardware including pedals keep their value more than plugins. In terms of plugins for in the box work, of course you can rig up a stock gate and send a trigger to it, but for more fun I’m a fan of the Gatekeeper Plugin which was done by the Infected Mushroom guys. Other plugins like LFO Tool and ShaperBox (both of which I own) do an excellent job of gating from a trigger, but Gatekeeper is a lot of fun and you can pretty much page through presets till you find something you like and then build a track around that rhythm. It’s not like the 80s thing, but it’s pretty creative and inspiration is probably more important than authenticity!
I still remember when I realized that I could use the gate function 3630 compressor gate to get this... Very funny!
Haha! I sold my 3630 quite recently. It's not nearly as 'dirty' as people make out -- you just need to know how to set it. Unless, of course, you want it to sound 'dirty'. I originally bought mine for about £30 but unfortunately people try to charge a lot more because of the Daft Punk factor.
Rad, thanks for sharing!
Thanks! Appreciate your and for the comment :)
Awesome video as always! I'm wondering that does the Drawmer DS 201 have some 'magic' in it, that I can't achieve with plugins like the Shaperbox volume shaper? I'm just asking because I'm working almost entirely out of the box, but for example the rhythmic pads I'm doing in software. Does it worth to go out of the box and get a Drawmer for this duty?
Thank you! Just before I give you a very long and definitive answer 😂 can I just check your process… you work mainly outside the box but then track into the box for editing and mixing? Assuming that answer is yes, then when you track in are you using your DAW clock to generate, say, drum sounds from drum machines? Or are you pressing play on a drum machine or hardware sequencer and tracking ‘free’? I should also ask what DAW you’re using as, believe it or not, it makes a different to the answer..
@@DistortThePreamp thanks for the reply! :) All my sound sources are coming from hardware, old 80s and early 90s stuff, that I record into the daw, which is Ableton. Mainly playing/writing midi, and then sending it out to the synths for recording. The drums are also written in midi, and sent out to stuff like the E-Mu procussion or the Korg DDD-5. For creative effects I also use old racks and pedals, as send effects, sometimes inserts, but all the mixing duties (eq/compression) are done in Ableton with plugins. I’m making ‘tropical synthpop’ so rythmic synths are essential, but I don’t know if it worth to bring it out of Ableton or no… I really like the shaperbox plugin, but maybe the Drawmer adds something extra?
@@DistortThePreamp I don't want to hurry you, but I'm really interested in your insight on the matter about does it worth for me to get a DS 201 or no? :) (the answers for your questions are in my previous reply)
Sorry for the delay! Yes, I think you would have fun with a DS201. Assuming you buy it for a sensible price second hand, then it’s not really a risk if it doesn’t work out. The main think you would use it for (obviously) is creative gating. There are a few tricks to integrating this into a hybrids setup like yours (and mine) but the main thing I would ALWAYS do is to make sure you record the trigger/pulse track on a separate track in your DAW. This means that you will always be able to do endless overdubs where you re-trigger the gates at exactly the same time. This is particularly critical if your drum machines aren’t perfectly on the grid. I know mine aren’t and I prefer to leave them that way. If you get one and you get really stuck then reach out to me and I’m sure I’ll be able to help :)
In my experience the Drawmer is a lot more fun, inspiring, and musical than using an envelope plugin like ShaperBox or LFOtool. I have both of those (as well as the FabFilter Pro-G) and I use them when mixing for kick duxking, but not for gating. Hands on feels a lot better, and there’s some ‘magic’ that the Drawmer seems to add to the transient.
@@DistortThePreamp this is awesome, thanks a lot for these insights, it was really helpful!!
SECRET BASS! 😂 I gotta know!
You’re like the only one who spotted that! Don’t worry, all will be revealed :) Thank you so much for watching, and for caring about the secret bass
👀
If I am not wrong. I think Bomb the Base have the same gate effect in the song, "Say a little prayer." You have answered my everlasting question. I know the emotion that this effect gives. Funky drummer. The snare might have the same gate effect.
There were two technics I just could never get right in the 1980's. To create that emotion effect (gate) and to make my drums sound less robotic.
I stopped nskjng music back in 1995. Real life. After my wife passing away. I started building up a hardware studio. Almost there. I do have the Yamaha TX802 rack unit. And I have the Drawmer DS201 Gate as well as The Drawmer compressor limiter.
This is a fantastic video. Thanks! It might sound a bit niche but at some point I wouldn’t mind seeing how you would work with a drawmer in a smaller scale studio (or do we all need a patch bay?)
Oh thank you so much! It’s funny to have you imply that my studio isn’t small scale - it feels tiny! But the question about patch bays is legit. I think it depends on two things: (1) how many ins and outs your interface has; and (2) whether or not you have any other gear. To be honest, I would always lean towards a patch bay because constantly plugging and unplugging gear round the back is just not very fun. However, you would also need a cheap rack because you can’t be balancing stuff on top of each other - that’s a recipe for disaster. The *only* patch bay I would recommend is the Behringer Ultrapatch PX3000. It’s balanced, supports normalling and half-normalling, is light, and there lots available second hand at prices that won’t break the bank (and it should pretty much hold its value if you decide to sell it). And you should be able to pick up a small 4U desktop rack for next to nothing (although some of my floor standing 10U rack units I picked up for literally £10!). The point about ‘half-normalling’ with a patchbay is that, provided you have enough inputs on your interface, you can do a trick where you simultaneously recorded the ‘pure’ sound *as well as* the sound through the gate. TBH that’s less relevant for gated sounds, but it’s hugely relevant if you are, say, recording vocals through a compressor but want to also take the ‘unprocessed’ sound as a ‘safety track’. Sorry to ramble on ;)
Ramble away! I hope we’re not going to see the prices of Drawmer gates spiral up 😱
@@DistortThePreampYou mentioned available inputs/outputs on the audio interface- I think you were going to say that if you have extra outputs available, you could hardwire those to both the gate inputs and side chain inputs and use your DAW to route tracks to them. DAWs typically let you rename hardware I/O so in the end you’d simply route/send/insert to “Drawmer Gate” and “Drawmer sidechain”. No patchbay, no reaching around the back to require things, at least until you decided you need the I/O for something else.
Yes, exactly! When you do this it’s really important to run a consistent trigger from the daw. That way you can do as many overdubs as you like and the gate triggers are all perfectly in time. Unlike, say, my midi which is a bit all over the place ;)
Tone deaf and not musical in the slightest (can just about match two sets of beats long enough to mix, sometimes). This channel is fascinating, all stuff I wish I could do.
Oh I’m really pleased you like it. I’m trying really hard to make videos that also appeal to non-musicians, so you comment is exactly what I’m hoping for. Thank you so much for watching, and for taking the time to comment :)
@Distort the Preamp @2:44 This song is amazing ! Do you have it uploaded on CZcams ?
Hahaha -- no I'm afraid I don't! It was done in about 1989 and I'm not sure we even own the rights anymore. Maybe one day I'll negotiate to get them back and release a 'lost' album! Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp Although I know your goal was to improve upon this genre, it's a fantastic song ! I hope maybe you're able to upload it someday. 🤞 🎶 Fantastic video !
That is such a kind thing to say! Thank you!
i like your approach! i've been using a boss slicer pedal but all the presets can be really overwhelming and easy to forget which one does what if i don't write it down or take a pic on my phone
That’s interesting to hear. A lot of people think that the Boss Slicer is easier - it’s certainly easier to carry! - but I can believe that it’s a bit overwhelming…