Manufacturer Said This Part is $700, So I Replicated it for MUCH Less
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- čas přidán 31. 03. 2022
- Welcome back to the latest installment of the CNC Plasma Series! This week we are going to be showing you what it takes to perfectly replicate a metal part using a CNC Plasma Cutter!
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Filmed and Hosted by: Tay Whiteside
Featuring: Wyatt Allen
Edited by: Walker Hooper
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Any technique or methodology shown in this video is purely for entertainment and informational purposes only. Lift Arc Studios and their associated craftsmen are not liable for any injury or damage to your shop or surrounding areas you man incur while trying to emulate these builds. Remember, be safe, have fun, work smart! - Jak na to + styl
That little piece shuts off the flow of milk by pinching a rubber tube that you feed though the assembly. And the weight of the handle keeps it pinched off. And… at the end you figure it out 😂
What he said
spot on its a milkpak valve must must must not have any sharp edges
What I came here to say. I remember these from the mess decks in the Navy. The tight tolerances really aren't necessary.
You literally could make this thing with a drill and hand file in less than a half hour.
@@RichSobocinski lol Im watching this and like 6 minutes in im yawning at the whole fusion 360 programming thinking We could have made this in 5 minutes with our hand tools
@@Hammerjockeyrepair Simple drill presss and sander! ...OR, weld the broken part and finish.
First, thank you for helping support your local business!
Second, thank you for taking the time to film a small victory over the “just trash and replace” culture.
Third, thank you for being a maker.
Your gonna need to replace the bolt with a longer stainless steel one and a self-locking nut. It needs to be able to come apart to CLEAN it. You also need to polish it to a mirror finish or else the health inspector will ding her for that tooi!
That's exactly what I was going to say. We had these in college dorms back in the 70s. Everything needs to come apart for cleaning. And stainless should look spotless like any other piece of food handling equipment.
i could be wrong but i am guessing since he had to weld it the mechanism was not built to be taken apart like he did. i do agree that using a stainless steel bolt would have made things easier to fix in the future and easier to clean if needed but i don't think it would be a big deal especially if it just acts like a guillotine pinching off the hose. i would guess for health reason the hose it pinches has to be cleaned or replaced regularly but doubt the side where you don't touch would be a big issue.
@@crazzywolfie That makes perfect sense, but my recollection (it's been awhile) is that food-related equipment has to really be stripped down to every little piece for sanitation, much farther than one might expect. That's why that "sh*** bolt" he refers to at 17:12 was not permanently installed in the first place. Perhaps it had been threaded and the threads stripped, I don't know. In terms of the milk tube, unless things have changed, each container of milk has its own rubber tube. Back in the day, milk came in special boxes that had a 5 or 6-gallon bag inside, with its own tube. You lifted this heavy box of milk (milk weighs around 8-1/2 lbs/gallon) into the refrigerated dispenser and threaded the tube down into the valve mechanism, and then removed some kind of clip (my memory is hazy) so that the milk was then controlled by the dispenser valve. When it was empty, you pulled out the box and replaced it. I saw an example of a similar machine online; search for Silver King SKMAJ1/C3. Sorry to ramble.
@@crazzywolfie it did not have to be welded, it is built to come apart.
@@crazzywolfie The housing was zinc and I think the threads were chowdered. I'm confused as to why he didn't just drill it all the way through and use a new bolt and lock nut. I mean the hole went all the way through anyway for him to be able to weld it. That would be kind of embarrassing to leave a little weld blob on the side of the end of a bolt holding it in place. You could also probably just use a quick release pin.
It has been a long time since my food service days, but that should be able to be disassembled for cleaning.
I also would've made the part over buying one. But lacking all the fancy machinery and software, I would've scribed lines in layout blue, and used drills, a saw and a grinding wheel. Old school.
Nice work.
Software = free, fancy machinery = DIY-able with pretty decent quality and precision (great for hobbyists, not all that great for extremely precise commercial stuff) for less than 500 bucks if you buy everything new, using none of your own spare stuff, and keep the expensive components (like a spindle motor) to sites like Aliexpress, banggood etc.
Mostly though, its a great thing to make for fun, and the reward is a finished product and the ability to make MORE things for fun! Highly recommend giving it a shot if you're a handyman type of guy, for some people a little project like that can lead to amazing things
I would've just bought a thin bit of sheet steel from a DIY store and used a hacksaw and drill.
Mind you, I do charge $700 an hour so...
Even cheaper
I always preach that it is critical to fully understand/communicate the function of anything being designed or fabricated.
Great job. A suggestion - instead of welding the retaining bolt how about replacing it with a longer one and putting a retaining clip on the end?
Yes! That was exactly what I was thinking. That would have been so simple. A pin with a cotter pin costs like 50 cents at the hardware store. Or even just a longer bolt with just the end threaded. There are a bunch of different ways to accomplish that, all of them better than welding it in place.
20:21…. “That’s a cut point” had me cracking up! Love your videos… and the injokes like “oh you’re brilliant!” Then making that Walkers Happy Place! Watched that over and over! Great videos guys… thanks for sharing all you do!
Why not use a 316 bolt and nylar lock nut so it can easily be repaired instead of welding it ?
I was literally screaming that at the screen when he said he was going to weld it.
I first found your channel and watched the 4 hour video of the clean up and making of the shop. I loved it. and when you placed the front door on the office you said you made it a no latch because it will be used the most. I said to myself "yea right he will be going through that bathroom door the most to get into the shop. And now on this video I see you going back and forth so much you have the bathroom door propped open. LOL . I still love your videos
I used to make tooling for the Cooke and candy industry. One of the tricks I used in AutoCAD 2000 was to take a picture of the design and import it into the system as a “jpg” file on a special layer then draw a rectangle or circle around the part. Then scale both to the measured size of the real part. Then I can trace and locate details. Small parts are easy, big parts you have move back and be sure the camera and part are parallel and on the same centerline. To avoid parallax. Try it you’ll like it.
It is great having a CNC plasma cutter. I have a small one at home and I have used to make parts and art. It is nice that you were able to help this lady. I was a laser operator in a small metal fabrication shop. After 22 years, I was replaced by a faster laser. I sure miss my job. I miss my home business. Thanks for the video.
"Walker's happy place" is the most relatable thing ever.
Very nice video this week Tay and the gang. Can't wait to see more videos soon. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friends weld on. Fab on. Keep making. God bless.
As always Jared, you're the man! Thank you! - Tay
@@LiftArcStudios your very welcome.
This is not a put down but this is a perfect example of book learning crossed over to practical application. Great job. Too many of the products we have are made by people who are totally disconnected from these two aspects of engineering. I say again Great job. Plus this is the best way I know of to convey my thoughts.
This comment meant the world to me, thank you! -Tay
@@LiftArcStudios You are welcome!
Nice 944 in the background!
Absolutely fantastic and love how you explain everything you do and how it’s done top bloke and full respect 👍👍👍
Thank you for the kind words friend! We go back and forth on whether or not people will find videos like these boring or interesting, glad you found it interesting! Cheers, Tay
The first time I saw this milk system was at Great Lakes Training Center when I was a Recruit - 1965. It used a 5 gal. milk container and a plastic hose like the one you saw (as others have noted). They have been using this system for many years, and I suspect the company has found this to be a nice expensive replacement part.
55 years ago we had a milk dispenser in our kitchen a.k.a. the cow. Anybody that owned one of these dispensers knew the how it worked long before minute 19. I love my cow 35° milk chasing Oreo cookies. That was when Oreos Cooks had trans fats they tasted so much better. Great memories of a interesting childhood.
Great tutorial on using a plasma cutter! Thanks!
"I'm going to take an hour out of my day to replicate a part out of stainless" also "Instead of buying a 25 cent fastener, watch me fuck weld the entire thing"
I wish i could give this comment 3 thumbs up.
An hour is a stretch. ITs like 20-30 minutes to mesuare small part like that and than cut it. If he did it off cam it would be faster.
Yea, milk machine valves usually pinch off a rubber "nipple" that is built into the 5 gallon milk "bags" that go into them. I've had to babysit milk machines like that many times during my time in the Navy. You have to cut the end off the tube of the new bag to open it.
Can we have a little context here, did they actually say that .50 cent piece was 700 dollars or did they say they couldn't sell just that part and the entire assembly was for 700 dollars?
Does it matter?
@@AlliPrice371 not really 700 dollars for that assembly is still ridiculous. 700 dollars for the little piece he made should be criminal. But if the machine is 700 and they don't piece it out I understand. So I was just curious what actually came with the 700 dollar price.
Great Video Man!
Agree, it does feel good to fix something rather than throwing it away. 👍
Good process.
Bad move on weld disassembly is required for cleaning as you discovered slide just pinches tube from milk carton. Good job on part replication.
This is brilliant.
Sweet repair, I dream of having a shop sabre!
Don't dream of it. Get a business license as an LLC or corporation (not a sole proprietor), be in business for at least one year and cashflow, and then you can finance one. Done.
A trick to keep the construction lines from showing up in the DXF is to project the face of the part to a new sketch and create a DXF from the projection. It will only project the edges and nothing more.
aaaaaaand by the time you got to the 8 minute mark putting all that info into fusion I already had the piece made on my bench with a drill grinder and hand file lol
Gemini Laser 3015 co2.
Ran it 15 years.
Production.
Good job kid.
I'd imagine the $700 was for the whole assembly not the tiny plate you made.
1.8625… bananas 🙄
@@brucelarcombe4679 I have no idea what that means ???
@@H4rleyBoy Here in Australia ‘banana’ is a metric-elitist term for ‘inches’. So I was having a giggle about decimal inches.
Not sure why it wound up as a comment on your post, sorry about that 🙏
@@brucelarcombe4679 Yes I knew about the inches thing from watching CEE channel, but didn't see a connection to my comment :) :)
@@H4rleyBoy yup, I watch CEE too. Just a lack of talent on my part 🤣
Great video nice job!
Thank you! Cheers!
I was with you until you started welding on a chromed visible part of the mechanism to retain a removable fastener
I wasnt even with him since the beginning... The effort and time spent just measuring and programming into the computer was so much more complicated than just making the part on the bench with the same files, a grinder and drill! And then once he tried welding that crap instead of fixing the threads I just paused and went to the comments ahaha
@@Hammerjockeyrepair for a one off, i agree with you. However, that would have made a boring video, and now he can produce aftermarket replacement parts, more or less ad libitum, could be a tidy sum all on it's own if he can just reach customers.
@@Hammerjockeyrepair effort? That like 20-30 minutes to measure it and cut on plasma table. With such simple detail it takes no time at all., Welding part of the other hand made me suffer,
You are brilliant cameraman
How about a small radius in corners of the square pocket. May prevent cutting tube.
I understand the instructional value ….but. I could have made that part by hand in half the time in 1.5 beers and an episode of Columbo. Did enjoy the episode
Finally a work case that totally justifies me buying a $25K CNC plasma for my garage shop... Jokes... Great Video and great solution. Stainless for the win.
HAHAHA right!? It is the little things, however, like this that make me thankful to have this machine in the shop, fast track prototyping! Cheers, Tay
I've been trying to justify it too. I know it would just sit there most of the time. I'd need to find another building for the tractor too.
Right to repair is important! Support local mechanics and engineers
Get yourself a wireless pendant - you can leave that keyboard in the cabinet and stick the pendant on the side of the cabinet.
milk bag has a rubber hose that fits into the spigot that the part squeezes close,, not needing a water tight seal.. just the ability to pinch off hose.
American ingenuity at its finest
I'm glad I have a Westcott plasma table. The program on my machine does everything for you lol. Just tell it what thickness and material.
Life of luxury! haha
Right, we have determined this is some horrid cast metal....let's TIG it 🤣
Longer bolt and a nyloc nut on the other side
As much as I like tigging, sometimes a nut is all you need.
My method has always been to bolt it... Frames busted? Bolt some C channel or angle iron to it! Presto! Like new again!
The valve pinches a hose that comes out of a milk bag. I love the chocolate milk!
Hey could you make a video of more detail software controller info? Nice video :)
I want one of those hats!
a nice clevis pin was needed , but hey ho , its up and running .
Interesting to watch the full process.
Best little edit (IMBRILLIANT) 😆Love the videos.
What is your shielding gas? I run N2 to shield and water to clean all of my stainless cuts and I don’t usually end up with that much dross.
Darn that works just like nature LOL!
One really dumb but super useful thing I learned recently is to literally just hold the piece to your monitor. You have the two major dimensions, but getting things like the filets and exact spacings correct can be a pain. Holding the piece to your monitor and zooming out in F360 until the major dimensions match makes it super obvious where you're even just slightly off.
You can also import a reference picture for things you can't hold up
Bed scanner
@@sugarbooty Reference pictures are very difficult to get straight, though. When you're working with millimeter parts, even a tiny but of skewing in your picture can really mess up any measurements you take from it after calibration. Unless you have a softbox with an overhead stand for a camera with a lens that does not distort, you're not getting the precision you'd want
@@submarine.7seas Bed scanners work great for flat objects, absolutely. It's a bit different when it's an object like a fancy ergonomic mouse or a TV remote or really any part with a curved underside, because a bed scanner will turn that curve into a gradient that is impossible to decipher. But within the context of this video, a bed scanner would have been a perfect fix and would have saved probably a solid 30-60 seconds
@@daylen577 It might not be perfect but it has helped me out a lot. I usually take pictures with my zoom lens from far away to remove as much perspective as I can. Im pretty sure you could also use dewarping software to give you a better result but I've never bothered. As a hobbyist its perfectly fine for me, I usually use it for following curves and stuff I can't easily measure
I believe the "valve" is simply a rubberized tube that is pinched by the handle, hence the handle being relatively heavy.
bro, thank you
Why not 316 as as we know it is a much better grade stainless and price difference is negligible for the amount required .
the part: $700
the education and tools to self-manufacture the part: $80000
the satisfaction of not paying for the part: $priceless
My library got rid of their 3d printers.
The local hackerspace sold their cnc machine.
Try wire eroder next time. Finishing in one hit. No filing necessary. Job done.
I am thinking that it isn't pure zinc but something called Silumine aka Aluminum-zinc alloy or even Magnesium alloy because it momentarily burned with a super bright light
My milk valve brings all the boys to the VoD
It isn't a contact with liquid type valve. This is built for hygiene as there is a rubber teat that is attached to the bottom of the milk bag which protrudes through the broken piece and the weight of the pendulum applies enough pressure to the teat to pinch the flow off....
Thumbs up for “you’re brilliant” sketch.
Lets hope that this video becomes widely viewed and that a market for replacement parts is created. You could help pay for the plasma table. Set your part price at at least 4 times your costs. You will force the supplier to lower the price of this stamped part and find out if there is a patent infringement. If so make it square with round edges.
Pretty sure no patent infringement on that one.. Milk-pack dispensers like that one have been around since the '80s at least, and the design looks like it's from the '50s or maybe even the '40s
Certainly looked like a 944 in the background.. Nice
You should have used a retaining pin
When you find out how it works after making and it appears the tolerances weren't that important at all..... hell you could fix this point welding 2 O-rings together 🤣
Ok serious question
I was shopping for a waterjet to avoid draft on thick parts (3/4 inch) and hole ovalisation along with edge hardening
Im building motorcycles and a cnc would save me a ton of time on brackets and frame parts that are critically dimensioned
The question is, how much control do you have over the kerf angle ? Could you ream the holes and still have them precisely positionned ? And do you need to normalize the edge after its been cut when you tig weld it ?
Depends on the criticality of the weldment and/or part. If the weld needs to be aerospace spec and x-ray, then welding on a plasma cut edge may not be a great idea. For motorcycles you are most likely going to be fine, bring the edge back to shiny metal and it welds great. As far as edge bevel, you are always going to have that with plasma. 3 degrees is normal, but you can get a straighter edge with good settings. Dimensional tolerance on the top side of the cut is easily + - .005”, even less with a proper setup. So yes, you could ream the holes to their appropriate dimension post-cut. If you are making a lot of these parts and your tolerance is tighter than the above ☝️ details, water jet and/or laser cutting is the name of the game
The way I handle this is offseting the toolpath by half the kerf plus the taper- since almost all processes benefit from an edge sanding, I then do a quick second operation on a spindle sander just to take out the taper, working small side up the edge works as a visual guide and it takes very little time. Although I know people here with both laser and waterjet, I can actually get my parts laser cut in Madrid for roughly the cost of the steel here, with a two week lead time. So in most cases I do that and then deburr and second operations like profiling, milling, reaming, chamfers, or flycutting here in my shop. If you normally use 1/8" and 1/4" plate they call it 3mm and 6mm respectively over there, the 6mm 304 I get from there is actually toleranced closer to .250 than the domestic 1/4" I get here.
My opinion is that getting a waterjet for metal is daft in today's market, they are so messy and PITA to maintain. For the cost of a waterjet you can get a hybrid laser, not have to deal with a water table or sludge, have a machine that can be left idle with no downside, etc. Plasma is cheapest, but also worst.
Just as an example, he could have got that part in two days from Reno for $14 (OK, he would have had to order $29 total to cover shipping) in 304 SS, and that is from
SendCutSend, they are TWICE the cost of my supplier. So if you are building motorcyles and not mass producing motorcycle parts, your floor space may be more valuable than a waterjet or plasma, don't forget with either you also need to inventory and store material and scrap. Precut parts arriving 30 at a time in a box may be a better solution. I know it is for me.
You dont. Even plasma manufaturer will tell you that metall 12+mm thick will have angled cut. Its in the nature of using plasma. Unlike pressure watter cutting or laser you electrical arc is dancing around a bit. You REALLY dont want to cut hole with diametres less that 4 time thickness of your metall unless you plan to finish them on the other tool. You will get angled cut on round holes. You might have 50 mm on one side and 49 mm hole on the other side, for example.
They try to sell you "fine cut" torches and "true hole" addons but even so they would not promise you good results.
You want perfect edges and holes? Use milling machine and drill holes afterwards. Plasma cutting is just a first step in making new part unless you do not require precision.
there is a rubber tube that the valve pinches off
Not sure welding that bolt was the right move, but nice job replicating the part!
I Miss the hell out of This old Tony..
Why on Earth did yo not put a longer bolt through and a washer/ nut on the end?
Why not polish to chrome like finish .
There is a quicker way to transfer this in an model. Just make a picture of it and then open the picture in light burn. Then you trace the image and correct the dimensions correctly. And then you can cut already.
im sure its a dumb question but could you put small parts like that in a scanner(like from a printer scanner) and import the object
Pure genius...I'm definitely trying that next time. Cheers! -Tay
@@LiftArcStudios You don't even need a scanner. Take a picture of it > Import pic into Fusion 360 > Scale the picture to the dimension and then sketch over top of the picture
@@V8Hunter7 This^^^ I have been able to perfectly replicate intricate small parts with various small holes this way. It creates a 1:1 image you use as a stencil you then simply model over.
@@V8Hunter7 you could have parallax issues with a camera photo, way less parallax with a flatbed scanner.
You kinda do it like that for small parts, yes. But you still need to measure it manually to check yourself.
that powered my max sticker in the back though
Great video. I noticed that matching up a printed 1:1 drawing from Fusion wasn't identical in size to the parts I order from the laser shop. Perhaps that is due to the kerf compensation and I can address that once I have a plasma table set up for myself
Have you opened up your file in another DXF editor and checked it? Probably a scaling issue. Unlees your parts are oversize and you were applying compensation- because your laser shop should be applying compensation ALSO.
Need clarification. You could have done the 2d cam in fusion360 but didn't. Why?
You could’ve tried taking a picture of it, diameter one reference side and try that right off the bat.
Best way to copy stuff
I think the new part squeezes a nipple that's on the bottom of the milk bag inside the cooler. I've flipped a lot of those valves in chow halls all over the world. The camera guy is right!
The 1950's called, they want their caliper back. lol
but those are the good ones!
at 17:30 instead of tack welding an ruining the whole unit. use a longer stud an pull pin.
whudabout that Porsche tho?... 😁
I'm welding a roll cage into in for a customer, being that it's only my second complete cage, i didnt have the confidence to film the whole thing and act like i know what im talking about haha. I will definitely post pictures to social media though! 1.75x.095 DOM tubing, completely TIG welded. Cheers! - Tay
heres a quicker idea. place the item on graph paper . take a photo of it . scan it into the slicer program . double check every then do a 3d print of it to make shure every work then cut.???
That piece is used to pinch a rubber tube open and close which milk flows through. .
I wonder if long term this piece is going to wear out the slot in which it rides because it's a much harder material.
Ugh. Just got to the bit where you started welding on the casting..
You could have turned up a pin with a clip or cotter without altering the device at all.
What does one of those cost?
I’ve worked on that machine or a very similar one and the 700 dollars covered the entire assembly (plus some other parts) in my case. Which is its own form of obnoxious but from a business perspective makes a bit of sense I guess… having a SKU for every tiny part adds too much overhead in stocking, shipping, etc…
You drew this up and used a plasma table to cut it out? How long did that take? Do you own a manual mill?
20-30 minutes at worst. You take a part, measure it, draw in 2d in your cad programm (3d is just to self check unless you create an assebly from several parts), throw it into cnc programm (settings he set in that programm and merging of lines is supposed to be automatic in nornam apps), download it to your cnc controller thats it. Change your plasma ampertage and cutting materials if needed, press on button and chill.
Depending on part and its configuration it might take much longer. 80% of time is spend on measuring and double checking yourself.
@@robertnomok9750 I could have made that part in ten minutes with a manual Bridgeport. CNC isn't really suited to simple one off parts. Now, if I had to make a thousand of them, yeah.
@@SomeGuyInSandy well yes, whole point to make a lot of them after wasting time on preparing cnc programm. When someone asks me to cut them one rectangle I poin them to the nearest saw,
Please tell me everything was sanitized before going back into commercial food service
AKA Udder!
it's a milkpak valve the item just squashes a pipe from the milk bag it doesn't touch the milk
Great job on the new part, but as im sure others have said. Welding the bolt was on the stupid side, a longer bolt and locking nut would of been a much better choice.
He real problem with welding in that bolt is the cleaning of the parts. They must be removable for FDA inspection so the pieces can be sanitized .
All looks good, for the cutting part.
I would have used a Helicoil to replace the threads.
That way, maintenance at wherever this is being maintained can get it back apart without using a welder.
61-year-old Airframe and Poweplant technician.
Not a great idea when working with food as the voids in the helicoil could accumulate food and bacteria that wont be able to be cleaned, better to bore it out and tap a size up on the screw or use a longer bolt and nut that can be disassembled for cleaning (but yes my first though was an insert too).
The valve system is made out of chromed monkey metal all the way. Why is it approved? Because none of the metal parts are exposed to milk. This system uses a plastic bag of milk ending in a tube which is pinched by the weight on the valve for shut-off. Nothing to clean, nothing get's contaminated (the business end, or spout, is the only concern because it's hanging on the outside of the machine/cooled container and isn't cooled enough; if the coffee shop is busy probably fine). Every time you place a new bag of milk everything touching the milk is fresh from the factory. By doing so the hygenic matters are not managed by the people who sell the milk. Off course it should be fresh enough from start and refrigerated but there's no need for severe cleaning of the system like an old-school beer tap where all the metal parts are in contact with the beer which is a great feeding ground for all the little buggers we don't see. Modern beer systems, like Heineken sells, guarantee all parts fresh when starting a new keg too. It's a benefit for us the consumer because if Donkey doesn't scrub well we don't get a running end afterwards or worse. Furthermore on the mechanical side of things in this episode: I would print the outline of the part. Glue it on a piece of stainless and saw and grind the outline and mill the inner sections along the printed lines. No precision required for this one. No burnt sides and a lot of extra touch up work needed. Ending with a better looking part in the same amount of time as shown here. Cnc milling also a better result if you own such a machine of course. Plasma cutting is a bit rough for small parts like this. Water cutting would be better for this job. And last, but not least; why welding on a bolt in a chromed zamak part? You probably disintegrated a portion of the chromed part. Several, and already mentioned, better solutions are there. Use a stainless helicoil if the part has enough meat to do so. Use a stainless rod to replace the bolt and use circlips to keep it in place. Go for the next size bolt up and rethread the piece. Or, also a valid maintainable solution; choose a longer bolt and a stainless nylock nut to keep it in place. A lot of comment but only to make you think and perform better. I'm out. Best, Job
You are picking the tubing not cutting it.
no 3d scanner?
I would have cranked out 4 of them because you know another one is going to break.
You can just take a picture of the pieces, import it on Fusion, calibrate it and you are rdy to go, you can sketch on top of the pic, you don't even need to use the caliper so often, why you weld the bolt and not put a larger bolt with a nut on it?
How much does a CNC plasma cutter cost?
You can't say presice mesurement and calipers in the same sentence unless its written mitutoyo on the calipers.
All you need is a $60k plasma cnc table