If Canada had proportional representation: Dave Meslin shows with Lego
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
- Dave Meslin uses Lego to illustrate the first-past-the-post system and what proportional representation could mean for future elections.
»»» Subscribe to CBC News to watch more videos: www.youtube.co...
Connect with CBC News Online:
For breaking news, video, audio and in-depth coverage: www.cbcnews.ca
Find CBC News on Facebook: / cbcnews
Follow CBC News on Twitter: / cbcnews
For breaking news on Twitter: / cbcalerts
Follow CBC News on Google+: plus.google.co...
Follow CBC News on Instagram: / cbcnews
Follow CBC News on Pinterest: / cbcnews
Follow CBC News on Tumblr: / cbcnews
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
For more than 75 years, CBC News has been the source Canadians turn to, to keep them informed about their communities, their country and their world. Through regional and national programming on multiple platforms, including CBC Television, CBC News Network, CBC Radio, CBCNews.ca, mobile and on-demand, CBC News and its internationally recognized team of award-winning journalists deliver the breaking stories, the issues, the analyses and the personalities that matter to Canadians.
"it's math actually"
"subjective assumptions"
well its math
Wow, shame on that condescending interviewer. Why even have a guest if it's all about sweeping them aside and pushing your own views?
yep, he is a real piece of work that's for sure... the guy is just trying to explain proportional system and he starts throwing wrenches right off the back...
Felt like he was being fed lines
He was not playing devil's advocate, he was belittling his guest. There is nothing subjective about proportional representation. Poor form from your National broadcaster Mr. Hanomansing
This is first time I have ever been disappointed in Hanomansing. I will take his opinions on things with a large grain of salt after this. It makes sense though. He has been so successful with CBC, I guess the rest of us should realize he obviously knows how to play ball with wealthy producers with ulterior motives. Or, he is Liberal party member. One of the two.
@@jasonfaulkner8644 There's a ton of Cons at CBC, genius. FPTP has been very kind to both the two major parties, hence why they dont want to rock the boat. Lose your dumb partisan blinders. It's just pathetic.
Journalists need to remember they're there to bring the news not be it. If you're the host of a show your job is to bring professionals on issues for us to be educated by. Your job is not to give your unprofessional opinion on an issue or have a debate with someone who specializes in a topic.
It would be nice if the CBC interviewer had talked less, and let the expert being interviewed state his views! I thought news was supposed to neutral??? Obviously CBC is not! Exceptionally biased reporting!
Weird howbte host keeps on challenging and interrupting, as if they're having an argument off camera...
+hellowjp Probably was the case.
+hellowjp Not arguing. They both had a turn to speak about the pros and cons of each idea.
agreed. Let the guy speak uninterrupted.
@@nickel2442 No doubt but it is the CBC, not known for their journalistic prowess, more known for bending over whenever Trudeau says so. They make CNN look like actual news.
Can't believe how unprofessional the host was, unacceptable behavior.
The host is thoughtful and desires not that listeners be mislead. I like his approach to journalism.
The host is supposed to be just that - a host. He is supposed to report. Not have an opinion.
It's obvious that the host hates the idea of electoral reform. Why bother inviting the guest then? Very condescending when he said good job with the Lego.
It's Ian's job as a reporter to ask questions and they only had four minutes to talk. And it seems they know each other well.
Why invite someone to talk when you just interrupt?
Ian Hanomansing did a poor job of being a unbiased reporter in this segment. Someone suggested it was like watching Fox news. How is math subjective. At least he could have had constructive arguments about how this will actually be implemented or how the MPs would represent ridings etc. It's seemed personal from Ian. Not CBC material.
I agree with this guy, the current system definitely feeds cynicism and frustration.
One of my brothers typically doesn't vote at all because he "doesn't see the significance of his vote" and
"doesn't care who wins".
When I told him that I was going to be voting Green, he told me I was "throwing away" my vote, that unless I was voting for either the Liberals or the Conservatives my vote essentially meant nothing.
I had to argue back that my vote did mean something, that even though my candidate was highly highly unlikely to win, I still had to show my support, so that people looking at the numbers know that the ideas the party represents are important that a large number of people agree with them. That the number of people voting for a party won't get bigger if people brush off votes for them as "wasted".
I had to tell him that the only way someone can throw away their vote, is if they don't vote at all.
And honestly, I don't think myself that the concept should be so obscure. It shouldn't be questionable whether my voice matters or not. The proportional system feels a lot more right in that regard.
I think prop representation means your local or riding candidate might not get in at all. I think that regional and riding level interests are compromised by prop rep.
@@Madmen604There are several possible systems of proportional representation, some of which do retain local representatives
why did the host bring on this specialist just to talk over him??
who is this guy reporting? So unprofessional. LET THE GUY TALK!
The host really ruined it, quite rude honestly
Very poor job by host, interrupting guest and making absurd mistakes/claims...
and yes, proportional is obviously more just than first past the post
If I were running that news channel, I'd get that host fired
Host was way out of line here.
First past the post is a ridiculous concept, there's no two ways about it.
What a rude host!
Actually, Hanomansing's simple-minded arrogance set the stage for getting Dave Meslin's message about the fairness of Proportional Repesentation across loud and clear, so that's a positive ;-)
Blown away by how much the interviewer was interrupting his guest... If he's a guest, he's been invited to share his perspective, so LET HIM TALK.
The interviewer was so unprofessional. Why keep interrupting your guest? it's not an argument, let the guy talk!
''And very good with legos'' OUCH! Way too below the belt with that comment...
This is painful to watch.
Always had a very good perception of Mr. Hanomansingh. But this interview left me feeling frustrated and slightly upset that the person being interview got interrupted so often and his valid points were being dismissed without any evidence. Very disappointed.
CRING!!! What's wrong w/ Hanamanasingh?? LET THE GUEST SPEAK!!!!!
Why is the guest there, the host over talks him continuously. We learned nothing because the guest never got to describe anything. The host should NOT try and be the focus of the interview. The host can get past his ego
that dude should stop interrupting
Its obvious that Canadians do understand first past the post, the Liberal wave last night proves it. i would have voted Green yesterday if we had the system this guy is calling for.
+natechomnicorp And who would represent the Green party? At least with FPTP, you vote for a person, not necessarily the party. You can hold that person accountable.
+indianhottie23 The Greens will elect a few representatives. You can still vote for the person with proportional representation. At the Federal level, policies are for the whole country so I'm not sure how ridings really matter?
+indianhottie23 Those are really good points hottie. Maybe we should pick the senate that way?
+indianhottie23 With alternative vote or STV vote you still have ridings and you still vote for a person. You get to include a second (and third and so on) choice if your first choice already passes the threshold. It allows people to just vote without worrying about vote splitting. Why should people have to worry about how everyone else is voting and let that influence their vote (which is what most likely many NDP, Green, and Liberal voters do).
You wouldn't have to worry about vote splitting because several candidates gets elected from larger sized ridings. Presumably, all those Liberal, NDP, and Green voters would rank Conservatives last on their ballot. The Green and NDP voters don't have to throw their votes to the Liberals as an Anti-Conservative vote. They can vote Green as their first choice and still rank the Liberal candidate higher than the Conservate candidate. Something like STV voting takes into consideration what voters would prefer if they can't have their first choice and so on.
Why was he so hostile omg... it's as if... he wants to maintain the system. Wonder why lol
wow, the host is so full of himself... " and he is pretty good with the lego" - seriously CBC? You are turning this into a joke?!
Canada is trying to get more people to vote and proportional system really encourages that, I think its a good thing
Dave was in the right here.
We in the UK are fed up of this 'First Past the Post' too! Unless you win from it.
Let's do Mixed Member Proportional!
I urge you to consider STV, which I strongly believe is the best of all systems, although MMP-style top-opts could also be added for full PR.
@@guillaumelafleche9477 Proportional approval voting is also pretty good.
I'm from NZ, and I like the system :)
Jeez the host was terrible. I thought he was supposed to be interviewing the guest, not spending four minutes saying why he thought he was wrong.
WHAT IS THIS INTERVIEWER DOING!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?! Let him speak lmao
Great talk even though the presenter kept trying to pull his OWN PERSONAL opinion.... Are presenters not supposed to be neutral?? :-/
Stop interrupting, belittling and arguing with your guest. It's annoying and distracting.
DAMMMMMMM here i am just studying for social and i see this drama going down. so much shade being thrown onto Meslin honestly where the popcorn at
Watching this journalist belittle his guest, was really annoying to watch
Cheers to last night (hopefully) being our final "first past the post" election!
Jesus Christ dude. The guy was brought here to show you something! Stop being ridiculous, let him speak
CBC, chat with your host. He's talking far too much during someone else's presentation.
Shocker, he didn't
THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN !!!!!!! IT NEEDS TO CHANGE !!! WE AS INDIVIDUALS SHOULD BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY VOTE FOR OUR LEADER! ! ! !
The problem here is that neither one of them actually explained the rules for this system. It doesn't sound like Meslin wishes to get rid of ridings. So how would each riding select a representative?
Regional representation is important for Canada. I would propose that we allow for two votes at the federal level: one for a local MP and one for a party. Half the seats in parliament would be representatives of a regional riding, and half are proportionally distributed. It's not uncommon for someone to personally like and trust their local CPC or LPC or NDP rep, but dislike that same party's leadership. This would allow people to maintain their relationships with their local representatives, while also giving more of a voice to alternative parties that take strong stances on specific national concerns (obviously the greens would benefit the most from proportionality, but so would conservative Christians, quebecois nationalists, other nationalists, Marxists, and so on) That's real democracy! People voting for what they actually believe, while also having a personal representative they can reach.
"Pretty good with the Lego"
Burn!
someone tell me why cbc decided to hire this interviewer
Who’s in 2020 and wishing we still had Harper?
I am beyond frustrated with the first past the post in NIPR
"It works great in a 2 party system" is wrong. It CREATES a 2 party system. Third parties are doomed to brief stints with some seats, then being pushed into obscurity again. PR would allow people to vote for the party best represents their views rather than voting tactically for the largest party on their side of the political spectrum.
If this doesn't show CBC bias I don't know what does.
Why does the journalist keeps interrupting?
Instead of this Lego BS-tell everyone how Proportional Representation works in real nations like Italy and Germany-it doesn't!
We need to keep FPTP for parliament, and have proportional rep for the senate.
Our senate is useless currently handpicked by the PM
it's 2021 still here
JT utilizes this system with the relocation of "new" voters.
Tricky news anchor...he's his own person with his own beliefs and understanding, I give him that. Not playing along with the presenter though - even just to hear his idea - and explaining it at times for him when the presenter is there to share...looks bad lol.
I'm watching it again...starts with a lead in, assist the presenter, goes counter-intuitive to his direction
Presenter ads unnecessary info (obscure)
Host disagrees.
Both could have left it at this, in fact (though rudely perhaps) the host tries. Then the host calls his math, which quite literally is, in to subjective?
Call it tug of war here n there, but I think the host clearly spoiled this one >.>
UK has the same problem. We've been stuck with the same 2 for 100 years and they both are useless.
I dont like this proportional rep. because 1. to make it more representative of total popular vote just make the ridings equal in population. YES? 2. Prop representation means that you throw out local level preferences and that means less local representation as well as less comittment at the local or riding level. 3. Prop rep could increase multi party representation, but too many parties can also bog down govt decision making. I think it is a mistake.
And 3 years later the voting system has not changed.
Why would Truedope change it? It gave him his majority.
After the disastrous General Election in the UK were 52% of the voting public votes for parties against Brexit, but q Brexit supporting party got in because of first passed the post, I wish we had proportional representation to ensure that the truth of what people want can be heard in parliament.
First Passed the Post does not work, unless you support the party that won because 3the corrupt system.
“Hopefully Justin Trudeau will follow through that commitment.” Arrrr, that hurts to hear 7 years after. Justin Trudeau just giving you on a plate the recipe for cynicism and frustration.
I’d hate to have an argument with him. My math and desire for proportional representation would be squashed😏😂
Why have a guest on to explain this system and then dominate the presentation. Serious ego or insecurity. Should not be a host.
Ugh this is why I find myself changing the channel anytime I try to listen to Cross Country Checkup since Ian has become host.
Maybe the host should shut his mouth and let the guest speak. :)
Justin did not as expected, change the system
The guest was correct about the UK and the host was not.
The main reason to like the current system is that it decreases the number of BQ seats.
Wow Ian . I thot you were supposed to be non basis. Your clearly for FPTP . Why bother invite him on to explain MMP if your not going to let him explain it by interrupting constantly
Everyone in the comment section is missing the point... I actually am glad the host of he show was adding a second point of view... Isn't that supposed to be the job of the CBC... To show all points of views that Canadians have. Ya'll just like being in an echo chamber.
Hahaha, we can't quite afford hologram technology yet. 2015.
Given how Ian didn't seem to approve of what Dave have to say, maybe Dave felt he couldn't trust the pro-Liberal CBC to present faithfully or correctly any graphics that might help him make his point.
Crazy - newsguy being political. - are not newsfolk impartial? NOT here
1:59 Well actually no --- the UK is a unitary country, not a federal one, so we don't have "federal" elections. If you want to be a pedant, so will I :)
Dave Meslin is a frightened Liberal
If voting becomes proportional, all my respect will go to Trudeau (who I didn't vote for) and my next vote will probably be liberal! I can't believe a politician could be that honest!
I still think it's not true but if it is…….. I'll vote for him next time to express how respectful I am!
Update: you're right, he's not that honest. Not at all, in fact.
Problem is, so...your riding voted overwhelmingly maybe for one party ie. Liberal but now you have a Green Party Member representing your riding because they have to give them a seat somewhere? First Past the Post is not perfect but at least your local representation is accurate. Put this to a referendum. Don't let a few politicians decide.
Not really how PR works... you still have local representation based on whichever candidate recieves the most votes in that riding, but everyone casts a second vote for a political party which will give that party more seats based purely on how many votes each party gets.
0:46 "if elected the liberals will get rid of first past the post voting" ahah.. ahahahhh...
FPTP FTW
ok, but does this hurt independents?
It depemds on how pr is done , if we had pure pr then yes, if we doubled the size of the house (or halved the number of ridings) we would have riding mps and a proportional system and independents could win in their riding.
I disagree that "it works great in a 2 party system".
LMAO, why some people believe that Liberal will change voting system?
#pissingcontest
I'm disappointed by this segment. I wish they would've chosen someone to speak regarding the proportional system who understands how to share an objective point of view even if they are arguing in favour of something they agree with. It wasn't clear who Dave Meslin represents, why he is considered an authority on the subject.
There was nothing shared to explain how proportional representation would result in 10greens in parliament (where are they coming from, how are our votes counted to get to that result? there was green candidate in my area does that mean the proportional system would see him sit in parliament even though he came in 4th place in the riding?)
This may have been one of the least informative segments I've watched from CBCNews and the one which did the least to provide me with clarification on a topic.
+Karina Hunter (Vlog Hunters) The system would need changed, because if we left the current borders then we would need to add more seats (unlikely) or change the borders of districts (much more likely). In proportional representation each district has multiple members (say 5 or 10) running, so if a districts party gets 30% of the vote in a 10 member system that means they earned 3 seats. A PR system has flaws though, it requires a lot of political capital to run and a lot more man power (each party needs to have multiple politicians per district, of which only a limited amount get it), it also effectively eliminates independents (although first past the post has always done this) as most can rarely manage to mount more than a person or two per riding.
If you wish to learn more: www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/polit/damy/BeginnningReading/howprwor.htm
+BradDavion That's not the only way. In many european country you don't necessarily vote in a local candidate, but you actually vote from a national list of candidates. The major parties typically have over a hundred party-members to choose from on the ballot.
Ayo these dudes are nerds ong
A proportional representation system will essentially assure that the conservatives never again gain power at the federal level or at least it will become a very very rare occurrence.
we need reform and it does not have to be complex and ineffective as the gov would have you think. first reform no political party's. there job is to work for the people they represent not a political party.second reform anyone can run send in your name and you are on the ballot.when the gov controls what names are on the ballot by imposing conditions they tye the voters hands.
guy's clearly a LEGO shill. #BANLEGO
Every other country is doing it so why don't we? This is child logic.
And why would fifty percent be the threshold for winning a seat? Why not sixty or seventy-five percent?
It has never been demonstrated as to how proportional voting would solve cynicism and frustration amongst the electorate.
Looks like you are like the interviewer, have no sense of what democracy is about which is representation. First Past The Post is an ancient 18th century English system that most of this world has moved past just like the inch and the pound
Normal CBC proliberal , very unprofesional
If it ain't broke, why fix it ? Spidey sense tingling..
I dont know... I kind of actually like the system we have right now. What you vote for is what you get-if enough of your neighbours agree with you. If your candidate loses, you tried and you have nothing of which to be ashamed. Your vote was counted and you made a contribution to democracy. I think it is the most democratic method of electing members to government. Whether there are two candidates on the ballot or 20, FPTP means that in your constituency you elect the person preferred by the most voters. Also, with FPTP, you are putting your trust in people. You do not have to vote for a party. You can vote for a person, a person you trust, one who works on behalf of the people in your riding. Parties do not have to keep their word. It is difficult to hold a party accountable. A person, your MP, comes back for re-election and is accountable to the voters.
+indianhottie23 I agree, any form of PR typically includes party lists which become rich pastures for political hacks which aren't answerable to a constituency and are disproportionately represented in cabinets and on committees.
+indianhottie23 "If enough of your neighbours agree with you" = Gerrymandering.
Thwacker Jack it's only gerrymandering if you rig the riding boundaries to favour your candidate
True. Which is something that is a problem with First Past The Post method.
Thwacker Jack the same problem exists in any system with ridings or voting districts, that doesn't change with the form of representation except in a pure party list system with no riding constituencies and that's the worst form of PR as you have no direct representation for your constituency or anyone to hold directly responsible as you do with an MP in a riding
If the Green party deserves 9 more seats, where do you put those MPs? In which ridings? Which MPs who actually won their riding would lose their seats?
+scurrg But on the Federal level, policies apply to the whole country. So no need to do ridings, really.
+scurrg Noone loses their seats. If the electoral process changed, hypothetically, the ridings become larger, and several candidates get nominated per riding. Proportional representation per riding.
+scurrg Lots of options:
- The 9 ridings where they received the most total votes
- The ridings where they received the highest percentage of votes
- Whichever candidates the party chooses
- Scrap the ridings and the party picks 10 reps
- No specific reps at all, the party just gets their percentage of the votes, the actual people who fill the seats doesn't matter
+Diavalo88 None of these options are satisfactory.
The people in each riding have the right to choose their representative, but we end up with a green party member when they only got 10% of the vote in our riding?
If the party chooses and assigns reps that sounds really anti-democratic, it makes the HOC more like the senate.
Scrap the ridings? Who is representing me in Ottawa? If each party gets a % of votes in the commons, again, who is representing me where I live?
Proportional representation means the end of local representation. My community is no longer represented in Ottawa.
Do you think it's better for a party to 35% of the vote, 51% of the seats, and 100% of the power?
Newsflash, you already don't have local representation on a federal level. If your party went anything but liberal this election, your 'local' MP has no say for the next 4 years. The party in power has 10-15 people who do the decision making, and the other MPs just vote along with them. The least we could do is ensure parties get seats based on the actual votes they get, instead of arbitrary lines and how tightly packed your votes are.
Ugh that last few seconds is brutal. "Let's hope."
If anyone is watching this in 2019, please remember that Justin Trudeau is an unequivocal liar. Nearly all of the liberals have turned their backs on their promise. We can do a lot better.
That host is awful
Guest was super biased! Sounds like the guest was there to demonstrate how the different models work - not so much for advocating for one or the other. Good job, Ian (host)
I understand that people are upset with this video, but please don't feel too bad for Dave Meslin. The man is just another arrogant TED worm. His Lego diagrams are obnoxiously condescending.
Why would you say that? Sounds like an unfounded personal attack by someone ruled by their bias.
Why do you think this? Are you offended?
You're not being nice or fair to Dave when, as far as I know, he's done nothing wrong. Sounds like a hollow personal attack so no, I don't like to witness someone doing that for anyone, even if someone is indeed just a worm, not that he is.
Please tell me more about fairness and Dave.
No, I don't wish to go on about this. As you can see on my picture, I eat worms for breakfast and Dave is not on the menu because he's human. Case closed. : )