Currently Michigan resident, I am on property number 5, owned and sold Michigan 17 acres, Michigan 23 acres then 27 acres. Finally followed my dream to own Missouri land, bought 41 acres northern Missouri, sold and now at 60 acres Northern Missouri. Love this content and doing exactly what your describing. My goal is over 100 acres then ill be at my target. Build my barndo and retire, im 47 now, 8 years to go. Thanks for sharing Bill! Dream Big
@@alexpinnow6509 I would say about 9 years ago was my first land purchase in Jackson county where we live. The most frustrating part for my journey has been just Michigan hunting and hunters in general. Every piece I owned in Michigan was not big enough and had line sitters on each tract which is fine but I realized if I wanted to shoot bigger deer with less hunter population I had to go where that was. Been a fun journey and learn with each piece
@@ryanfarmer5155I’m in the same boat. I love the fishing opportunities in Michigan, but despise the hunting culture. I hunt almost exclusively out of state.
Bill, I bought my 98 acres of WV mountain land for $1,050 per acre, in mid 2020. It was in rough shape, steep, and had been logged 40 years ago. I built an off grid cabin for $50,000 and have been improving the property. In just four short years, the property I bought for $110,000 is now worth close to $300,000. My plan is to keep improving it and hunting it over the next 12 years, and then most likely sell it and use the gains as part of my retirement.
I thought of that too, but then I realized that when the time came to retire, the last thing I would want to do was sell my land. You may change your mind, but why not just repeat the process? You are creating a nice place for someone else and you can feel good about that while increasing your net worth. Unless you just really love that property, it is something to consider. Good luck.
@@bill-winkesame here! Absolutely no way I’m selling in western Il. There is no room in the markets around here to buy anything underpriced. It just doesn’t exist around here anymore.
@@midwesternoutdoorsandnatur8272 Underpriced is a relative term. Underpriced compared to historical values? No, its not going to happen, but underpriced compared to near term future values? That is the question. I think once the surge in demand wanes a bit we will see clearer and you will find that are still some tracts that come along that sell for less than what they could have. But, that won't happen until demand settles back down.
LOVE watching, hearing about your journey, Bill. I’ve been doing exactly what you’re speaking of the last eight years, it absolutely can still be done. Started from nothing and have built up. Knowing your journey and the more you tell of it over the last handful of years has been very inspiring, a roadmap really. As much as I appreciate you putting this information out, sometimes it’s hard to watch knowing it’s only going to continue getting harder to do though😆. But in all seriousness, thank you. The American Dream/land journey is worth it!
Yes, that is the sad part. It was so much easier when I was doing it originally. We even knew it at the time, that's why I dove in so deep when I did. I never saw these prices coming this fast, but I knew it had to go up because of the supply vs demand over time. Good luck.
I’m 28 and have owned 5 small properties so far, just buying one and rolling it into the next one starting with only 12 acres. This has been the best investment of my life. I’m am going to be buying the first piece of my dream farm (a current permission piece) next year because of all the work I’ve done up to this point!
Good stuff Bill! If the value of the land today is $5,500, per acre and was $375 in 1995, the annual percentage increase would be approximately 9.7% per year, compounded over the 29 years. That is more than 3X of a normal annual inflation rate. Innovation wins the battle for valuation. I think that as high-speed satellite internet improves and working from home continues, rural land will continue to rise. I also believe that as rates decline in the next few years will help stabilize value. I also believe that most people who own rural property have a 2.5-3% interest rate and they will not be willing to sell only to pay more for something else due to a higher rate which will keep inventory low. Imagine the cost of food as this occurs. I own a 45-acre parcel in SW WI. The property has a house and mobile home on it that I rent. The rent pays my mortgage and taxes. The logging value pays for the maintenance. I purchased a Mississippi river front property this year that is 4 miles from my hunting property. I air bn B this property and use it when its not rented. My goal is to own what I want and use the land to generate enough to cover the cost. While I would like more, taxes in WI are astronomical as are the regulations to own which negatively influences the value..
Good points Paul. I know a number of people who are less worried about hunting their temporary properties and have found ways to make income on them - like you did - by just building a cool cabin and possibly leasing out the hunting. Their goal is to keep adding value and eventually build up to something that they don't have to "share". Good luck.
I agree Bill. It’s going to only get harder to buy ground. It’s not impossible, but extremely rare to see any undervalued ground in good deer country like IL and IA. I would look in another lesser deer state if I was truly interested in buying anymore. I’m enjoying being debt free, and have no plans to change! Good video!
That is good advice. I think there are still undervalued properties, but you might have to be more experienced to see it. In other words, where it was pretty easy to find undervalued properties when I was starting back in the late 90s and early 2000s, you might have to understand things like population trends, housing codes, neighborhood demographics, etc. to find that diamond in the rough now. In other words, you have to do more digging. Good luck.
Bill all very good information. We bought our first farm when we could not afford it and took out a home equity loan to purchase it. It was not an easy sell to the wife by any means, but she did agree. It was 1990 and the farm was $200 per acre, in one of the best hunting areas in WI. I selected the area after a year of research and just had the feeling it could be made into a great hunting property with a lot of hard work...and I was great. I found numerous properties for friends to purchase in the area at the time, because we were to stretched to thin financially at the time to buy them. They all did VERY well when it came time to sell!!! Over the 25 yrs stretch we purchased and sold 6 different farms. The last farm we sold, the new owner said we had done all the work to make it his DREAM hunting property, they still own it and continue to make improvements. We have been blessed to have our DREAM farm now for numerous years. Your suggestions are all very good. Start small, with the RIGHT property that has the RIGHT potential and grow from there. Thanks for sharing, Bob
Congrats, Bob. That is a great success story. I think the same formula still applies, but on a smaller scale than was possible when land was cheaper. Thanks for sharing your story. Have a great day.
In my state of PA the Mennonite and Amish don't use banks they get money for land from the church. What land is worth has no bearing on it they will pay double the value and let generations pay for it even if it takes 100years. The end result is they have driven the price of land beyond what a normal buyer can get a loan for it or would want to pay for it. The last auction I was at they bid a 20ac piece to $360,000 and a 36 ac piece to around $450,000 or over I can't remember exactly. That has evyone thinking that is what it is worth well I guess it is if your Mennonite or Amish. Darren
Darren, that has been going on for a pretty long time - in many Amish areas. I would sell to them and look for a replacement somewhere else. In fact, that could be your business model, buy on the fringe of their colony and then wait until they want it and sell high and look for options. Might be worth looking into. Good luck.
Great information! I purchased my land in 2018 in west Michigan for 3,600.00 per acre, now land is selling between 5k-6k per acre, farm land is even higher!
Yes, that is a good story and pretty common right now. I am not sure what the next ten years will bring, but long-term, it will become harder and harder to buy land. In the lifetimes of our children, it will become really tough. If our families are ever to own land for the next generation, we need to get started soon. Nice job.
What I had to do to get a property for $1500 an acre in NW PA was educate the seller. That sounds arrogant, but the seller was a reasonable person and I have followed land prices in the area for decades. I put a report together of comps and broke down what made each property go for what it did. The property I purchased had every oak and most of the marketable maple cut. It was thick and hilly and most people saw it as worthless land. I sent the report with an offer of $1450 an acre. He wanted $2200 to start. We agreed at $1500. This was before the insane inflation drove everyone into stores of value such as property. Now, the same high graded 80% hill property I own would go for $2500-3000 an acre. I have cleared out 2 food plots of about an acre a piece. One I put in a spot, a house, or business could be built. I also fixed up the logging roads. I did all this with my Kubota B2650 and a bunch of implements and elbow grease. I have been polishing this diamond in the rough. But like you said trying to find the next reasonably priced property is nearly impossible. I am thinking in the next few years prices will come down a bit. But not much. Inflation isn't going anywhere. It's just a simple equation of the number of folks retiring vs coming into the work force. Their are just so many folks that will be needing benefits vs paying into them. Enough rambling for the day, great episode as always.
Thanks for the comment and the story. I am guessing that some of that $2,500 per acre land that you see as inflated is in-fact still undervalued in the grand scheme of things. In the Midwest, pure hunting land with no income other than timber value, sells for around $5,000 per acre and up. So, $2,500 in the Eastern US sounds like a bargain. It is all relative, I know that, but I bet there are still undervalued pieces that get overlooked in your area. Good luck.
Great video Bill. It will be interesting to see how thermal drones will play into the land buying process in the future. They can be a huge tool for anyone looking at purchasing hunting ground. So far I know of very few people who are interested or would be interested in flying a property for sale. In my opinion I think it is the best use for the drones. Such a great tool to look at the property before making a huge investment!
The most important part of buying a piece of property is the neighborhood. If I know what is happening on the adjoining farms I don't need to know quite as much about the farm that I am buying. And if I don't know what is happening on the nearby farms, I would feel very uncomfortable paying the prices that land is going for now. I guess, if I had to make my decision to buy or not to buy a piece of land based on what I learn from a thermal drone, I probably don't know enough about the neighborhood I am in over my head. But, as you have shown very clearly, once I own the land and have to make the necessary improvements to the property for management reasons (specifically, how many does to shoot) then the drone survey is definitely super valuable information. Have a great day.
Excellent episode! Answers a ton of questions for myself. Bill have you ever thought of doing a consulting business and going to farms and giving advice on what improvements should be made? If you were to ever do that I would be giving you a call. Thank you Jordan and Bill for another great episode!
Daniel, I do some of those visits each year. I take a maximum of 10 to 15 so I don't really advertise it a lot. If you are interested, contact me at info@billwinke.com and I will get you some information on the service. Thanks for the comment and the interest. Have a great day.
@@bill-winke unfortunately I lost my Dream Farm to cancer and had to sell it, but I've got a completely different perspective about life now and I am very thankful to have beat the cancer and love to spend time in the outdoors, camping, hunting, fishing. Public land hunting is what I got now, but I'm thankful for it. I really enjoy watching your videos too. 👍👍
@@chuckparson6712 I could hunt and fish public land for the rest of my life and be happy, but I just love owning land so as long as I can keep doing that without driving myself too crazy financially, I will keep pursuing it. But, as in your case, if I lost it all I would not shed a single tear. It has been a great run, but you have to keep it all in perspective. Good input.
Great topic Bill and Jordan! Now that I've managed to get that first piece (and seemingly struck gold) the hard part is figuring out how/when to move on and roll it into the next one. I will say in the short time I've owned it, it has been so much fun (work) and learning how things operate even with the 3+ hour drive. I'm sure the hunting season will have some big surprises on it too. Dreaming big in this land game.
Good deal, Alex. You don't sell until you find a good replacement. The timing can be tricky, but it can be done. You might have to get a bit creative in how you lock up the replacement until you can get your current piece sold. No rush though. Enjoy the process. Good luck.
@@bill-winke thank you for the encouragement and advice!! Lots to learn on locking up the next piece but I assume if I've done the work right, and price the farm right with a realtor I trust, it should fly off the shelf. Time will tell...
I would dare say the problem today is the cheap today versus the cheap of years ago. They arent the same. All land seems to be going at premium prices. Its much harder to find those "reasonably" priced lands. Land broken up and going for higher price per acre. Ive gotten to where ive stopped chasing it and am just going to be happy with what I have.
I promise it can still be done. It just takes longer and takes a better eye for value than what we experienced 15 years ago. Undervalued properties are still out there, but they are harder to find because more people understand value and bid them up in price. I was lucky to be a buyer when I was, but I would not let today's market kill my dream. It can still be done - I hear from people all the time. Have a great day.
I’ve been tracking markets and saving/investing for 10 years now since starting to work. I’ve been wanting to be ready for the market when baby boomers start passing on land to children who do not want it. It’s hard to separate that from other influences but I 100% believe there will be some great deals in the next 3-5 years and I will be ready.
I agree. What we saw from 2020 through 2023 was not the real world. It may have messed things up for a while, but eventually, the land markets will start to make more sense again. Maybe they won't come down a lot, but at least they will stop going up like they have. Good luck.
Awesome video love how you talk about everything to deal with hunting from buying a farm to shooting a deer you got it all here love watching you and Jordan's videos awesome job can't wait for hunting season to come so I can watch you guys hunt and hunt myself!! Goodluck this year guys and gals
One thing i do is buy land with some open fields and mow it where it looks like good pasture then i will put in a nice driveway so when people come to look and the land, they can pull down the drive and see the pretty open land. if its just woods with no driveway people will just pull up look and leave and not look at the land. start with small plots ten to twenty acres just enough to hunt on while you wait to sell, and the smaller plots will sell for a little more and there are more buyers looking for small plots to live on. you can have two or three at a time and have different places to hunt.
That is a great plan George. Good job. Near cities the land business is different from what it is way out in the middle of nowhere too, so you have to adapt and understand what creates value in each market. Keep it up.
I'm up to 380 acres in Arkansas, I will be talking to my neighbors about buying more when I'm ready. I think taking time to get to know your neighbors is a good way to pick up some good land. Just be ready to buy when they are ready to sell
Good job on this episode. It’s really sad what has happened to land prices. For anyone attempting to acquire land for the first time it’s a deep dive for some and a nearly impossible vision for others. Who are all these high dollar land buyers? Where did they come from and with all this extra cash for land?
I think a lot of it is Covid money. All that cash that the government dumped into the economy had to end up somewhere. A lot of it ended up in land. I do think that the Covid cash is mostly soaked up now and that is why the market is slowing down. Rich people got richer during Covid, with all that cash floating around the economy. No doubt about it. Not sure if or how it corrects.
@@bill-winkeinteresting and makes sense. Land acquisition Could be an interesting topic to Build off of in your videos. Maybe if you had the funds (not saying you do). You could buy a small inexpensive property yourself and improve it and kind of follow this path you’re describing. Just at thought.
@@RNSOutdoors I think it is a great idea and I have thought about it. I could walk people through the entire process of buying, building, reselling and buying again. In the end, I am much closer to being done buying than I am to starting, but keeping it small would be a blast.
@@bill-winkeand also the process of looking at properties online and in person and evaluating them to decide if they can workout for what you are looking for. A whole series of shows. Don’t look back now, dream big and good luck
That is a good point, but people seem to be looking for buildable parcels in that area. If the parcel isn't buildable, it seems to be much less. I know of some stuff that was priced well under that that didn't sell. It might be better to look for the value-minded starter pieces in areas that aren't as highly sought for building homes. My point is, I would not be looking for value in that region. I know areas where it is easier to find good properties at a much lower price. Good luck.
Land is so frustrating right now. Near my land in Michigan, someone bought a parcel and has started selling it in 20 acre lots and making a lot of money. Kicking myself for not buying it.
Yes, that is the hard part - the ones that are breaking up the parcels. That is really tough to deal with. I understand it, but it feels bad to me. I have never done and I don't think I ever will.
Great video. Buyers should also consider using USDA and other federal programs to offset land costs like CRP, CREP, WRE, and AG Preservation. Share-cropping or leasing portions to a farmer. Partners can also be valuable with the right agreement in place. Don't be in a rush to have everything. Hire a consultant or do the research. There are still ways to buy land for 50 cents on the dollar if you are well versed in the available tools.
I agree, Virgil. Any sources of income are welcome as long as they don't reduce the chances of creating greater value through making changes to the land. Regarding partners: I have not seen many partnerships that aren't purely financially motivated work very well when it comes to land ownership. There usually ends up being a rift and it is usually over who does all the work and who shoots the "wrong" buck. So the final Dream Farm should not be a partnership, but all the ones in between (the building blocks) could be, if the partners are compatible in their goals. Good luck.
A 120 acre farm with A modest but nice house and out buildings in central Wisconsin will be north of A Million 💲💲💲.....too many guys though think that having their own hunting land can't be done .. .it can though , where theres A Will theres A way ....start small and make improvements ( plant trees etc ) ....over time maybe flip for bigger acreage parcels 🌲🦌🏹
neighboring land by me with just under 13 acres and a nicer 3300 sq/ft house in TN is listed at 1.25mil now.. 120 acres here lists for up to 3 mil.. Its crazy as H down here...
It varies so much depending on what part of the country you live in. In southern Iowa where I did the most buying, the pasture land was selling for about 60 to 75% of prime rec land and about 1/2 the cost of tillable (or even less) so if you could find pasture ground that could be converted into a combination of prime rec land and good tillable, you could do well. We did that a few times along the way and that was an easy value upgrade. I suppose that model is still possible is you look hard enough. Good luck.
Love talking land purchases etc, you’re 100% right though people know more what they’re doing now with all the internet access. I bought at 2000 / acre and with my improvements and land values that have gone up idk that I could replace my land for even the current value of what I sell it at. Make sense? So I may sell at 5 k an acre but I cannot buy the same size parcel now for less than that. Maybe in a less desirable area, but seems a step back. Idk going to keep my current set up for a while, it’s getting better and better. Is it my Dream farm? Good question. My dream farm would be in Iowa😉.just don’t see that in the cards. Maybe I’m on my budgets dream farm lol . Great stuff Bill thanks for sharing.
Steve, thanks for the comment. The idea isn't to replace it unless/until you find something you believe is undervalued somewhere else. There is no reason to sell otherwise (unless you just need the money). If you are at your potential Dream Farm or think maybe you have found it, you are kind of done looking. Not that that is bad, but it does kind of take you out of the game. That is basically where I am at. Good luck.
Bill says unless you have a whole bunch of cash somehow and Jordan quips, I don't have any. Don't worry Jordan even though you are a burgeoning young lady you will always be Daddy's girl and have his $$$$$ (I joke). Splendiferous segment as always.
Traveling is the key. There are still some values. I recently consulted with a guy in southern IN who had bought two farms where the timber sale covered roughly 75% of the purchase price. So, I do think there are still a few areas out there where you can still find good deals. Good luck.
I’m only on my second farm and I thought I would sell quickly. I fell in love with my 100 acres in northwest Illinois and couldn’t imagine trading for anything besides buying a neighboring parcel for an increase in size. My mistake was finding the dream farm too soon and too small and wanting to take it to the grave.
Yes, if you really want to stay in the game you have be willing to sell/trade what you have. Once you hit the Dream Farm no sell stage, you stop being a pure investor and start being an end-user (as I call them). That is pretty much what I have turned into also. It is not a bad thing, you just need to know where that leaves you (which it seems that you do). Congrats on a great farm and good luck in the future.
Great video! I bought 45 acres in 2022 for 200k. I feel like i got a decent deal comparing that some properties closer to me go for 10k an ac. The down fall of the property, it is in a cwd area. So now i am curious what your thoughts on how or if cwd or other issues that could bring the value down if things get worse
It will bring the value down some if the solution to the problem is to wipe out the deer as has happened in some areas. I think you hold it until you find something you like better at a good value and keep moving. Good luck.
Great Great episode 👍 I feel for Jordan and three of my kids in her generation. My 28 year old had good timing to buy and sell and buy and have a great house and property that’s just has tremendous value now. I feel for the younger generation. Jordan is right. The kids can make more than their parents even but percentage wise can’t afford to buy anything. PATIENTS 🤷🏼♂️ I’m guessing will prevail.
I can appreciate the fact that my investment in land is doing well, but I hope long-term that things settle back into a level where average hard working people can afford to buy real estate. I don't know who keeps buying it if the average person can't. I guess super rich people can keep buying, but at some point that rate of return is going to drop way off (maybe it has started) and they will sell to buy other assets. That is my guess. Land is basically over-bought because people didn't want to be left out when it shot up. Now what happens? I am not 100% sure, but I have to think it is more likely stagnate or go down than to keep running up. Who are the next buyers? Near the cities, it is the developers, but in pure ag/recreational markets? Not sure who those buyers are going to be. Without a strong rate of return, in my opinion, the big money will start looking elsewhere. Good luck.
In the early 1980's the loggers where buying farms in our county, logging it off and then turning around and putting back on the market. Now we have a guy who is buying land for 10,000 an acre.
Yes, if we had only known. I could have bought half the timbered land in Iowa for the price of a few logs per acre had I known what I know now. Some people just have a ton of cash and when they want something they aren't really that worried about whether they are paying too much. There aren't many people like that, but I have run into them also. Good luck.
What is your top 3-5 ways to add the most value to a property. I could see roads (access), plot sites, but what else. Do you do improvements such as soil adjustments, plantings, adding blinds? I could see that pouring more money into than you might get back.
Chris, I would say roads, access, food plots, gates, maybe a few timber practices like some TSI (but not too much). Planting screens, maybe. I would not do a lot of expensive capital improvements like building ponds unless you know it is going to be a building site. Those are the main things. You can take a few trees here and there for revenue, but again, don't scalp it. Anytime you can improve privacy and access you will be rewarded. Good luck.
I'm no Bill Winke, but I just finished up a summer of adding roads, creek crossings (culverts, not cheap bridge solutions), and prepping for a gate to name a few. If it's a raw farm my plan is to set a solid foundation of access. **Had this comment typed up and forgot to share it before Bill replied ao that is very cool!
Northern Indiana crap property is $15-18k per acre. Recreational is going for $20-23K acre. All I want is 5 acres to call my own and it is impossible to get around here. 😞 I wish I lived in a place where property was reasonable. Like you said inflation is drowning people and property is shrinking off into the distance.
That is crazy. It is so much cheaper in other parts of the country. I know it is not as nice if you have to drive to your property, but you may need to look in other places. Good luck.
Watching the 4-year liquidity cycles, land will hold (possibly drop a tiny bit) for a while and then have another large jump up when the fed injects the next round of liquidity. Now is the time to buy land or bitcoin the next round of liquidity from the fed is coming soon. Rate cuts are coming soon (most likely September).
Yes, that has been the nature of these cycles. Liquidity really drove things in the mid-2000s and then in late 2007 the amount of cash floating around dropped way off (banking crisis) and land sat pretty stagnant until almost ten years later when it started to move up slowly - until the big Covid injection of cash pushed it again. It is just tough to keep up with even when we know this stuff because incomes don't keep pace. The people who have a lot of cash can buy the land anticipating these jumps (and other assets) while the rest of us can only watch. But, it is useful to know these things if you are in a position to buy something small, hold a while and then sell for a gain. This would be a likely time to start considering that. Good information.
@bill-winke I have a nice piece of land just on the other side of the Mississippi River from you in Crawford County. I plan to keep it and stack more bitcoin for the next injection of liquidity... bitcoin has always outpaced inflation and outpaced the dollar value that land increases. It's digital property that can be traded anytime as long as you have an internet connection. Eventually, I will sell some and buy more land because I love hunting, and one can never have too much land. I also love your CZcams videos. Keep up the great work!
Here’s a scenario for ya. 11 years till retirement with the intention of ending up in Iowa. You have the money to buy 100+ acres but you will not be able to use it until after retirement. What would you do ? How would you offset costs of owning the land?
Vincent, I would start looking, but not try too hard to find the perfect piece right now. Spend the time figuring out where you want to end up. However, don't sit on the cash for very long unless it is in a very solid investment. I would rather buy something where you currently live that could go up in value in the next 11 years. That is probably what I would do - invest locally and then sell that when the time comes to buy in Iowa for retirement. As I mentioned, the only time I would not do that is if the money is doing really well where it is now sitting (growing faster than land appreciates or generating a nice dividend that you can reinvest). A different investment would have to be growing at a rate of 10% or more for me to stay out of the land game. I don't think I would buy land a long ways away until I was closer to the time when I would use it. I see that as risky. Stick with what you know for now and then sell and move the cash when you get closer to retirement. Just me thinking off the top of my head. Sure, if you find a screaming deal in Iowa, go for it, but short of that, I would stick with good investments closer to home. Good luck.
I started by buying into a sub-chapter s corporation that owned 3,600 acres in 1995. I bought my first farm outright (under my name) in 2002. By 2008 I had 1,000 acres! It was a really tough six years, very stressful trying to keep all the pieces in the right place to pull that off, but God saw it through.
I thought over 200 acres in north central MO in 2016 with a house and 8 buildings and tillable crop ground for 1100 an acre. Neighboring farms for sale now for 7-8k an acre. Insanity.
Yes, it is crazy. I really don't know where it leads. I have given up on trying to guess, but if you want land you have to figure out how to buy it. I do know that much. We don't get to go back, only forward. Have a great day.
@@bill-winke In all honesty, your discussion of buying property that others can’t visualize as being something and make it something-therefore adding value--is SPOT ON. Not just in hunting ground but any investment in real estate. And, it is a heck of a lot of fun.
That is the part I had to deal with when buying my land. Guy high-graded everything, then wanted a price per acre that would be charged for land that has marketable timber. I had to pull comps and show what those parcels look like vs his. Ultimately, it worked, but it comes down to if the seller is reasonable or not. Some will not listen and keep believing their property is worth the same per acre as flat old growth timberland.
@@wolfpack4128same thing is happening here in Ky. Crazy prices !! Take the best and leave the rest a mess. Then charge 150% of what it’s worth. It’s almost comical seeing how long these parcels sit for sale.
I write a little bit for Bowhunter Magazine. Petersen's Bowhunting went away, which made me sad as that was the first magazine I wrote for back in 1991. I should do a bit more writing, but there aren't many magazines left, unfortunately. Have a great day.
It is possible. That came right after a big run up. People forget that recreational land made a huge jump from 1995-2005 (probably tripled in price in my area). It was still climbing in 2007 right before the banking crisis brought everything to a stop. Not sure if there is some kind of ripple on the horizon now, but I just don't see the prices running away and hiding from here. At least not for a while. Good luck.
@@midwesternoutdoorsandnatur8272 30 to 40% nation wide average. Definitely not the same everywhere. 20% drop sure would send some folk underwater even on lands your referring to
@@midwesternoutdoorsandnatur8272 also depends of what you call deer Country. I seen some areas hit more than 40%. Secondary properties like recreational hunting properties can be hit the hardest. Primary residence will hold much longer than recreational In my opinion. For several reasons like lone availability and when people get strapped for cash the last thing they buy is hunting property
Here it is. They just reduced the price dramatically: www.whitetailproperties.com/hunting-land/iowa/monroe/legendary-southern-iowa-hunting-farm-dialed-in-for-season
Great info, thanks for sharing Bill. Trading up is the way to go. You save up, buy what you can, delay gratification by living very frugal. Then sell and buy another. You have to marry a frugal patient wife who loves you for your body, not your money like my wife did ;) and it can be done. Don't forget Jesus. The investments made for Christ and His kingdom will far out last anything you accumulate on this earth. After all as Ricky Skaggs says, "You can't take it with you when you go!"
Agree with all of that. I also think that finding a self-employment side job (may take time) is a good way to increase savings. You just have to be careful not to become too obsessed with the goal and up working all the time. Balance is a big deal. Good luck.
@@bill-winke Yes, if you have the skill and no how to start a succesul business, that can afford you opportunities most do not have. For a young person who has some drive to work, simple investment in an S&P index fund, or and ETF (Exchange Traded Fund) pegged to the S&P will get you 9% interest compounded over averaged 20 years. I started working whenever I was 16 years ago and I wish I new this. If a 16 year old today starts investing $100 a month by opening a trading account and buying shares in an ETF as mentioned above, he will have $4800 at age 20. Then as you get a better job add more and it will start multiplying faster. Buy an older truck and pay it off fast, then put a new truck payment in your ETF if you can. If you could add $400 to the $100 for $500/month when you turn 20, at 30 years old, you've got $64,000 for for a nice downpayment. If you add a new truck payment in there, you might be able to pay cash for a 50 acre piece. Lot's of ways to get there, but you will have to be disciplined and delay gratification.
Currently Michigan resident, I am on property number 5, owned and sold Michigan 17 acres, Michigan 23 acres then 27 acres. Finally followed my dream to own Missouri land, bought 41 acres northern Missouri, sold and now at 60 acres Northern Missouri. Love this content and doing exactly what your describing. My goal is over 100 acres then ill be at my target. Build my barndo and retire, im 47 now, 8 years to go. Thanks for sharing Bill! Dream Big
That is an awesome strategy and a great track record Ryan. Congrats and good luck.
Ryan when did you buy your first property if you don't mind sharing? On my first farm now I bought at 30 and would like to continue to grow it
Awesome
@@alexpinnow6509 I would say about 9 years ago was my first land purchase in Jackson county where we live. The most frustrating part for my journey has been just Michigan hunting and hunters in general. Every piece I owned in Michigan was not big enough and had line sitters on each tract which is fine but I realized if I wanted to shoot bigger deer with less hunter population I had to go where that was. Been a fun journey and learn with each piece
@@ryanfarmer5155I’m in the same boat. I love the fishing opportunities in Michigan, but despise the hunting culture. I hunt almost exclusively out of state.
Bill, I bought my 98 acres of WV mountain land for $1,050 per acre, in mid 2020. It was in rough shape, steep, and had been logged 40 years ago. I built an off grid cabin for $50,000 and have been improving the property. In just four short years, the property I bought for $110,000 is now worth close to $300,000. My plan is to keep improving it and hunting it over the next 12 years, and then most likely sell it and use the gains as part of my retirement.
I thought of that too, but then I realized that when the time came to retire, the last thing I would want to do was sell my land. You may change your mind, but why not just repeat the process? You are creating a nice place for someone else and you can feel good about that while increasing your net worth. Unless you just really love that property, it is something to consider. Good luck.
@@bill-winkesame here! Absolutely no way I’m selling in western Il. There is no room in the markets around here to buy anything underpriced. It just doesn’t exist around here anymore.
@@midwesternoutdoorsandnatur8272 Underpriced is a relative term. Underpriced compared to historical values? No, its not going to happen, but underpriced compared to near term future values? That is the question. I think once the surge in demand wanes a bit we will see clearer and you will find that are still some tracts that come along that sell for less than what they could have. But, that won't happen until demand settles back down.
LOVE watching, hearing about your journey, Bill. I’ve been doing exactly what you’re speaking of the last eight years, it absolutely can still be done. Started from nothing and have built up. Knowing your journey and the more you tell of it over the last handful of years has been very inspiring, a roadmap really. As much as I appreciate you putting this information out, sometimes it’s hard to watch knowing it’s only going to continue getting harder to do though😆. But in all seriousness, thank you. The American Dream/land journey is worth it!
Yes, that is the sad part. It was so much easier when I was doing it originally. We even knew it at the time, that's why I dove in so deep when I did. I never saw these prices coming this fast, but I knew it had to go up because of the supply vs demand over time. Good luck.
I’m 28 and have owned 5 small properties so far, just buying one and rolling it into the next one starting with only 12 acres. This has been the best investment of my life. I’m am going to be buying the first piece of my dream farm (a current permission piece) next year because of all the work I’ve done up to this point!
That is awesome Madison. Congrats and good luck. Thanks for sharing your story.
Good stuff Bill! If the value of the land today is $5,500, per acre and was $375 in 1995, the annual percentage increase would be approximately 9.7% per year, compounded over the 29 years. That is more than 3X of a normal annual inflation rate. Innovation wins the battle for valuation. I think that as high-speed satellite internet improves and working from home continues, rural land will continue to rise. I also believe that as rates decline in the next few years will help stabilize value. I also believe that most people who own rural property have a 2.5-3% interest rate and they will not be willing to sell only to pay more for something else due to a higher rate which will keep inventory low. Imagine the cost of food as this occurs. I own a 45-acre parcel in SW WI. The property has a house and mobile home on it that I rent. The rent pays my mortgage and taxes. The logging value pays for the maintenance. I purchased a Mississippi river front property this year that is 4 miles from my hunting property. I air bn B this property and use it when its not rented. My goal is to own what I want and use the land to generate enough to cover the cost. While I would like more, taxes in WI are astronomical as are the regulations to own which negatively influences the value..
Good points Paul. I know a number of people who are less worried about hunting their temporary properties and have found ways to make income on them - like you did - by just building a cool cabin and possibly leasing out the hunting. Their goal is to keep adding value and eventually build up to something that they don't have to "share". Good luck.
I agree Bill. It’s going to only get harder to buy ground. It’s not impossible, but extremely rare to see any undervalued ground in good deer country like IL and IA. I would look in another lesser deer state if I was truly interested in buying anymore. I’m enjoying being debt free, and have no plans to change!
Good video!
That is good advice. I think there are still undervalued properties, but you might have to be more experienced to see it. In other words, where it was pretty easy to find undervalued properties when I was starting back in the late 90s and early 2000s, you might have to understand things like population trends, housing codes, neighborhood demographics, etc. to find that diamond in the rough now. In other words, you have to do more digging. Good luck.
Bill all very good information. We bought our first farm when we could not afford it and took out a home equity loan to purchase it. It was not an easy sell to the wife by any means, but she did agree. It was 1990 and the farm was $200 per acre, in one of the best hunting areas in WI. I selected the area after a year of research and just had the feeling it could be made into a great hunting property with a lot of hard work...and I was great. I found numerous properties for friends to purchase in the area at the time, because we were to stretched to thin financially at the time to buy them. They all did VERY well when it came time to sell!!! Over the 25 yrs stretch we purchased and sold 6 different farms. The last farm we sold, the new owner said we had done all the work to make it his DREAM hunting property, they still own it and continue to make improvements. We have been blessed to have our DREAM farm now for numerous years. Your suggestions are all very good. Start small, with the RIGHT property that has the RIGHT potential and grow from there. Thanks for sharing, Bob
Congrats, Bob. That is a great success story. I think the same formula still applies, but on a smaller scale than was possible when land was cheaper. Thanks for sharing your story. Have a great day.
In my state of PA the Mennonite and Amish don't use banks they get money for land from the church. What land is worth has no bearing on it they will pay double the value and let generations pay for it even if it takes 100years. The end result is they have driven the price of land beyond what a normal buyer can get a loan for it or would want to pay for it. The last auction I was at they bid a 20ac piece to $360,000 and a 36 ac piece to around $450,000 or over I can't remember exactly. That has evyone thinking that is what it is worth well I guess it is if your Mennonite or Amish. Darren
Darren, that has been going on for a pretty long time - in many Amish areas. I would sell to them and look for a replacement somewhere else. In fact, that could be your business model, buy on the fringe of their colony and then wait until they want it and sell high and look for options. Might be worth looking into. Good luck.
Great information! I purchased my land in 2018 in west Michigan for 3,600.00 per acre, now land is selling between 5k-6k per acre, farm land is even higher!
Yes, that is a good story and pretty common right now. I am not sure what the next ten years will bring, but long-term, it will become harder and harder to buy land. In the lifetimes of our children, it will become really tough. If our families are ever to own land for the next generation, we need to get started soon. Nice job.
What I had to do to get a property for $1500 an acre in NW PA was educate the seller. That sounds arrogant, but the seller was a reasonable person and I have followed land prices in the area for decades. I put a report together of comps and broke down what made each property go for what it did. The property I purchased had every oak and most of the marketable maple cut. It was thick and hilly and most people saw it as worthless land. I sent the report with an offer of $1450 an acre. He wanted $2200 to start. We agreed at $1500. This was before the insane inflation drove everyone into stores of value such as property. Now, the same high graded 80% hill property I own would go for $2500-3000 an acre. I have cleared out 2 food plots of about an acre a piece. One I put in a spot, a house, or business could be built. I also fixed up the logging roads. I did all this with my Kubota B2650 and a bunch of implements and elbow grease. I have been polishing this diamond in the rough. But like you said trying to find the next reasonably priced property is nearly impossible. I am thinking in the next few years prices will come down a bit. But not much. Inflation isn't going anywhere. It's just a simple equation of the number of folks retiring vs coming into the work force. Their are just so many folks that will be needing benefits vs paying into them. Enough rambling for the day, great episode as always.
Thanks for the comment and the story. I am guessing that some of that $2,500 per acre land that you see as inflated is in-fact still undervalued in the grand scheme of things. In the Midwest, pure hunting land with no income other than timber value, sells for around $5,000 per acre and up. So, $2,500 in the Eastern US sounds like a bargain. It is all relative, I know that, but I bet there are still undervalued pieces that get overlooked in your area. Good luck.
You are correct Bill! They aren't making anymore land that's for sure!
It is tough to get in now, but anyone who can should because it will keep getting tougher. Good luck.
Great video Bill. It will be interesting to see how thermal drones will play into the land buying process in the future. They can be a huge tool for anyone looking at purchasing hunting ground. So far I know of very few people who are interested or would be interested in flying a property for sale. In my opinion I think it is the best use for the drones. Such a great tool to look at the property before making a huge investment!
The most important part of buying a piece of property is the neighborhood. If I know what is happening on the adjoining farms I don't need to know quite as much about the farm that I am buying. And if I don't know what is happening on the nearby farms, I would feel very uncomfortable paying the prices that land is going for now. I guess, if I had to make my decision to buy or not to buy a piece of land based on what I learn from a thermal drone, I probably don't know enough about the neighborhood I am in over my head. But, as you have shown very clearly, once I own the land and have to make the necessary improvements to the property for management reasons (specifically, how many does to shoot) then the drone survey is definitely super valuable information. Have a great day.
Excellent episode! Answers a ton of questions for myself.
Bill have you ever thought of doing a consulting business and going to farms and giving advice on what improvements should be made? If you were to ever do that I would be giving you a call.
Thank you Jordan and Bill for another great episode!
Daniel, I do some of those visits each year. I take a maximum of 10 to 15 so I don't really advertise it a lot. If you are interested, contact me at info@billwinke.com and I will get you some information on the service. Thanks for the comment and the interest. Have a great day.
Supply and demand drives the economy and real estate 101 is location, location, location.
Great video 👍👍
That's right. The neighborhood makes all the difference.
@@bill-winke unfortunately I lost my Dream Farm to cancer and had to sell it, but I've got a completely different perspective about life now and I am very thankful to have beat the cancer and love to spend time in the outdoors, camping, hunting, fishing.
Public land hunting is what I got now, but I'm thankful for it. I really enjoy watching your videos too. 👍👍
@@chuckparson6712 I could hunt and fish public land for the rest of my life and be happy, but I just love owning land so as long as I can keep doing that without driving myself too crazy financially, I will keep pursuing it. But, as in your case, if I lost it all I would not shed a single tear. It has been a great run, but you have to keep it all in perspective. Good input.
I noticed your dream farm is back on the market listed on Whitetail Properties.
Yes, they reduced the price quite dramatically from where they started. Shows the market is indeed softening.
Great topic Bill and Jordan! Now that I've managed to get that first piece (and seemingly struck gold) the hard part is figuring out how/when to move on and roll it into the next one. I will say in the short time I've owned it, it has been so much fun (work) and learning how things operate even with the 3+ hour drive. I'm sure the hunting season will have some big surprises on it too. Dreaming big in this land game.
Good deal, Alex. You don't sell until you find a good replacement. The timing can be tricky, but it can be done. You might have to get a bit creative in how you lock up the replacement until you can get your current piece sold. No rush though. Enjoy the process. Good luck.
@@bill-winke thank you for the encouragement and advice!! Lots to learn on locking up the next piece but I assume if I've done the work right, and price the farm right with a realtor I trust, it should fly off the shelf. Time will tell...
I would dare say the problem today is the cheap today versus the cheap of years ago. They arent the same. All land seems to be going at premium prices. Its much harder to find those "reasonably" priced lands. Land broken up and going for higher price per acre. Ive gotten to where ive stopped chasing it and am just going to be happy with what I have.
I promise it can still be done. It just takes longer and takes a better eye for value than what we experienced 15 years ago. Undervalued properties are still out there, but they are harder to find because more people understand value and bid them up in price. I was lucky to be a buyer when I was, but I would not let today's market kill my dream. It can still be done - I hear from people all the time. Have a great day.
I’ve been tracking markets and saving/investing for 10 years now since starting to work. I’ve been wanting to be ready for the market when baby boomers start passing on land to children who do not want it. It’s hard to separate that from other influences but I 100% believe there will be some great deals in the next 3-5 years and I will be ready.
I agree. What we saw from 2020 through 2023 was not the real world. It may have messed things up for a while, but eventually, the land markets will start to make more sense again. Maybe they won't come down a lot, but at least they will stop going up like they have. Good luck.
Awesome video love how you talk about everything to deal with hunting from buying a farm to shooting a deer you got it all here love watching you and Jordan's videos awesome job can't wait for hunting season to come so I can watch you guys hunt and hunt myself!! Goodluck this year guys and gals
Thanks Teddy. We are looking forward to the season too. Should be a good one! Good luck to you.
@@bill-winke yes it's gonna be a nice season goodluck bill Jordan Ethan and rest of the crew this season let's see some big horns on the ground
One thing i do is buy land with some open fields and mow it where it looks like good pasture then i will put in a nice driveway so when people come to look and the land, they can pull down the drive and see the pretty open land. if its just woods with no driveway people will just pull up look and leave and not look at the land. start with small plots ten to twenty acres just enough to hunt on while you wait to sell, and the smaller plots will sell for a little more and there are more buyers looking for small plots to live on. you can have two or three at a time and have different places to hunt.
That is a great plan George. Good job. Near cities the land business is different from what it is way out in the middle of nowhere too, so you have to adapt and understand what creates value in each market. Keep it up.
I'm up to 380 acres in Arkansas, I will be talking to my neighbors about buying more when I'm ready. I think taking time to get to know your neighbors is a good way to pick up some good land. Just be ready to buy when they are ready to sell
That's it. Don't start them thinking about selling until you are ready to buy. I have made that mistake before. Good luck.
Good job on this episode. It’s really sad what has happened to land prices. For anyone attempting to acquire land for the first time it’s a deep dive for some and a nearly impossible vision for others.
Who are all these high dollar land buyers? Where did they come from and with all this extra cash for land?
I think a lot of it is Covid money. All that cash that the government dumped into the economy had to end up somewhere. A lot of it ended up in land. I do think that the Covid cash is mostly soaked up now and that is why the market is slowing down. Rich people got richer during Covid, with all that cash floating around the economy. No doubt about it. Not sure if or how it corrects.
@@bill-winkeinteresting and makes sense. Land acquisition Could be an interesting topic to
Build off of in your videos. Maybe if you had the funds (not saying you do). You could buy a small inexpensive property yourself and improve it and kind of follow this path you’re describing. Just at thought.
@@RNSOutdoors I think it is a great idea and I have thought about it. I could walk people through the entire process of buying, building, reselling and buying again. In the end, I am much closer to being done buying than I am to starting, but keeping it small would be a blast.
@@bill-winkeand also the process of looking at properties online and in person and evaluating them to decide if they can workout for what you are looking for. A whole series of shows. Don’t look back now, dream big and good luck
The issue I’ve seen lately as a buyer trying to find the right place is that there seems to be a premium on the smaller
That is a good point, but people seem to be looking for buildable parcels in that area. If the parcel isn't buildable, it seems to be much less. I know of some stuff that was priced well under that that didn't sell. It might be better to look for the value-minded starter pieces in areas that aren't as highly sought for building homes. My point is, I would not be looking for value in that region. I know areas where it is easier to find good properties at a much lower price. Good luck.
Land is so frustrating right now. Near my land in Michigan, someone bought a parcel and has started selling it in 20 acre lots and making a lot of money. Kicking myself for not buying it.
Yes, that is the hard part - the ones that are breaking up the parcels. That is really tough to deal with. I understand it, but it feels bad to me. I have never done and I don't think I ever will.
Great video. Buyers should also consider using USDA and other federal programs to offset land costs like CRP, CREP, WRE, and AG Preservation. Share-cropping or leasing portions to a farmer. Partners can also be valuable with the right agreement in place. Don't be in a rush to have everything. Hire a consultant or do the research. There are still ways to buy land for 50 cents on the dollar if you are well versed in the available tools.
I agree, Virgil. Any sources of income are welcome as long as they don't reduce the chances of creating greater value through making changes to the land. Regarding partners: I have not seen many partnerships that aren't purely financially motivated work very well when it comes to land ownership. There usually ends up being a rift and it is usually over who does all the work and who shoots the "wrong" buck. So the final Dream Farm should not be a partnership, but all the ones in between (the building blocks) could be, if the partners are compatible in their goals. Good luck.
I appreciate your efforts and content. keep it up.
Thanks for the comments. Much appreciated.
A 120 acre farm with A modest but nice house and out buildings in central Wisconsin will be north of A Million 💲💲💲.....too many guys though think that having their own hunting land can't be done .. .it can though , where theres A Will theres A way ....start small and make improvements ( plant trees etc ) ....over time maybe flip for bigger acreage parcels 🌲🦌🏹
That is the way it can be done. Exactly. Good input.
neighboring land by me with just under 13 acres and a nicer 3300 sq/ft house in TN is listed at 1.25mil now.. 120 acres here lists for up to 3 mil.. Its crazy as H down here...
@@georgehelzer7569 Where is that money coming from George? Is it coming out of the nearby cities?
@@bill-winke out of state a lot of them. Tennessee is a hot zone for several reasons.
Another good video, thanks Bill
Thanks Clay. Much appreciated.
Great info! I’d love if you would have put rough dollar amounts/acre, specifically cow pasture land vs prime deer land
It varies so much depending on what part of the country you live in. In southern Iowa where I did the most buying, the pasture land was selling for about 60 to 75% of prime rec land and about 1/2 the cost of tillable (or even less) so if you could find pasture ground that could be converted into a combination of prime rec land and good tillable, you could do well. We did that a few times along the way and that was an easy value upgrade. I suppose that model is still possible is you look hard enough. Good luck.
Love talking land purchases etc, you’re 100% right though people know more what they’re doing now with all the internet access. I bought at 2000 / acre and with my improvements and land values that have gone up idk that I could replace my land for even the current value of what I sell it at. Make sense? So I may sell at 5 k an acre but I cannot buy the same size parcel now for less than that. Maybe in a less desirable area, but seems a step back. Idk going to keep my current set up for a while, it’s getting better and better. Is it my Dream farm? Good question. My dream farm would be in Iowa😉.just don’t see that in the cards. Maybe I’m on my budgets dream farm lol . Great stuff Bill thanks for sharing.
Steve, thanks for the comment. The idea isn't to replace it unless/until you find something you believe is undervalued somewhere else. There is no reason to sell otherwise (unless you just need the money). If you are at your potential Dream Farm or think maybe you have found it, you are kind of done looking. Not that that is bad, but it does kind of take you out of the game. That is basically where I am at. Good luck.
@@bill-winke yeah get that, just will be difficult as property values have gone up so much that it may be a lateral instead of an upgrade.
Bill says unless you have a whole bunch of cash somehow and Jordan quips, I don't have any. Don't worry Jordan even though you are a burgeoning young lady you will always be Daddy's girl and have his $$$$$ (I joke). Splendiferous segment as always.
Thanks Grinder. I need Jordan to come up with that big pile of cash so I can retire! Have a great day.
I’ve had to reconsider my expectations past 5 years. Expectations have definitely decreased in acreages and also willing to travel farther
Traveling is the key. There are still some values. I recently consulted with a guy in southern IN who had bought two farms where the timber sale covered roughly 75% of the purchase price. So, I do think there are still a few areas out there where you can still find good deals. Good luck.
I’m only on my second farm and I thought I would sell quickly. I fell in love with my 100 acres in northwest Illinois and couldn’t imagine trading for anything besides buying a neighboring parcel for an increase in size. My mistake was finding the dream farm too soon and too small and wanting to take it to the grave.
Yes, if you really want to stay in the game you have be willing to sell/trade what you have. Once you hit the Dream Farm no sell stage, you stop being a pure investor and start being an end-user (as I call them). That is pretty much what I have turned into also. It is not a bad thing, you just need to know where that leaves you (which it seems that you do). Congrats on a great farm and good luck in the future.
Great video! I bought 45 acres in 2022 for 200k. I feel like i got a decent deal comparing that some properties closer to me go for 10k an ac. The down fall of the property, it is in a cwd area. So now i am curious what your thoughts on how or if cwd or other issues that could bring the value down if things get worse
It will bring the value down some if the solution to the problem is to wipe out the deer as has happened in some areas. I think you hold it until you find something you like better at a good value and keep moving. Good luck.
Great Great episode 👍 I feel for Jordan and three of my kids in her generation. My 28 year old had good timing to buy and sell and buy and have a great house and property that’s just has tremendous value now. I feel for the younger generation. Jordan is right. The kids can make more than their parents even but percentage wise can’t afford to buy anything. PATIENTS 🤷🏼♂️ I’m guessing will prevail.
I can appreciate the fact that my investment in land is doing well, but I hope long-term that things settle back into a level where average hard working people can afford to buy real estate. I don't know who keeps buying it if the average person can't. I guess super rich people can keep buying, but at some point that rate of return is going to drop way off (maybe it has started) and they will sell to buy other assets. That is my guess. Land is basically over-bought because people didn't want to be left out when it shot up. Now what happens? I am not 100% sure, but I have to think it is more likely stagnate or go down than to keep running up. Who are the next buyers? Near the cities, it is the developers, but in pure ag/recreational markets? Not sure who those buyers are going to be. Without a strong rate of return, in my opinion, the big money will start looking elsewhere. Good luck.
In the early 1980's the loggers where buying farms in our county, logging it off and then turning around and putting back on the market. Now we have a guy who is buying land for 10,000 an acre.
Yes, if we had only known. I could have bought half the timbered land in Iowa for the price of a few logs per acre had I known what I know now. Some people just have a ton of cash and when they want something they aren't really that worried about whether they are paying too much. There aren't many people like that, but I have run into them also. Good luck.
What is your top 3-5 ways to add the most value to a property. I could see roads (access), plot sites, but what else. Do you do improvements such as soil adjustments, plantings, adding blinds? I could see that pouring more money into than you might get back.
Chris, I would say roads, access, food plots, gates, maybe a few timber practices like some TSI (but not too much). Planting screens, maybe. I would not do a lot of expensive capital improvements like building ponds unless you know it is going to be a building site. Those are the main things. You can take a few trees here and there for revenue, but again, don't scalp it. Anytime you can improve privacy and access you will be rewarded. Good luck.
I'm no Bill Winke, but I just finished up a summer of adding roads, creek crossings (culverts, not cheap bridge solutions), and prepping for a gate to name a few. If it's a raw farm my plan is to set a solid foundation of access. **Had this comment typed up and forgot to share it before Bill replied ao that is very cool!
Northern Indiana crap property is $15-18k per acre. Recreational is going for $20-23K acre. All I want is 5 acres to call my own and it is impossible to get around here. 😞 I wish I lived in a place where property was reasonable. Like you said inflation is drowning people and property is shrinking off into the distance.
That is crazy. It is so much cheaper in other parts of the country. I know it is not as nice if you have to drive to your property, but you may need to look in other places. Good luck.
Watching the 4-year liquidity cycles, land will hold (possibly drop a tiny bit) for a while and then have another large jump up when the fed injects the next round of liquidity. Now is the time to buy land or bitcoin the next round of liquidity from the fed is coming soon. Rate cuts are coming soon (most likely September).
Yes, that has been the nature of these cycles. Liquidity really drove things in the mid-2000s and then in late 2007 the amount of cash floating around dropped way off (banking crisis) and land sat pretty stagnant until almost ten years later when it started to move up slowly - until the big Covid injection of cash pushed it again. It is just tough to keep up with even when we know this stuff because incomes don't keep pace. The people who have a lot of cash can buy the land anticipating these jumps (and other assets) while the rest of us can only watch. But, it is useful to know these things if you are in a position to buy something small, hold a while and then sell for a gain. This would be a likely time to start considering that. Good information.
@bill-winke I have a nice piece of land just on the other side of the Mississippi River from you in Crawford County. I plan to keep it and stack more bitcoin for the next injection of liquidity... bitcoin has always outpaced inflation and outpaced the dollar value that land increases. It's digital property that can be traded anytime as long as you have an internet connection. Eventually, I will sell some and buy more land because I love hunting, and one can never have too much land. I also love your CZcams videos. Keep up the great work!
Here’s a scenario for ya.
11 years till retirement with the intention of ending up in Iowa. You have the money to buy 100+ acres but you will not be able to use it until after retirement. What would you do ? How would you offset costs of owning the land?
Vincent, I would start looking, but not try too hard to find the perfect piece right now. Spend the time figuring out where you want to end up. However, don't sit on the cash for very long unless it is in a very solid investment. I would rather buy something where you currently live that could go up in value in the next 11 years. That is probably what I would do - invest locally and then sell that when the time comes to buy in Iowa for retirement. As I mentioned, the only time I would not do that is if the money is doing really well where it is now sitting (growing faster than land appreciates or generating a nice dividend that you can reinvest). A different investment would have to be growing at a rate of 10% or more for me to stay out of the land game. I don't think I would buy land a long ways away until I was closer to the time when I would use it. I see that as risky. Stick with what you know for now and then sell and move the cash when you get closer to retirement. Just me thinking off the top of my head. Sure, if you find a screaming deal in Iowa, go for it, but short of that, I would stick with good investments closer to home. Good luck.
@@bill-winke Thank you Bill.
My dream farm would be a big hardwoods tieing into big swamps river bottom style with acorns
Sounds awesome. What state would you be in?
@@bill-winke Gotta go with Illinois
@@markhall1169 Southern IL still has some value. I know guys that were buying good land for a decent price as recently as two year ago. Good luck.
When did you buy your first farm?
I started by buying into a sub-chapter s corporation that owned 3,600 acres in 1995. I bought my first farm outright (under my name) in 2002. By 2008 I had 1,000 acres! It was a really tough six years, very stressful trying to keep all the pieces in the right place to pull that off, but God saw it through.
I thought over 200 acres in north central MO in 2016 with a house and 8 buildings and tillable crop ground for 1100 an acre. Neighboring farms for sale now for 7-8k an acre. Insanity.
Yes, it is crazy. I really don't know where it leads. I have given up on trying to guess, but if you want land you have to figure out how to buy it. I do know that much. We don't get to go back, only forward. Have a great day.
@@bill-winke you too man!
First thing to do is call me to be your real estate agent. LOLOL
There you go Tommy. Have a great day.
@@bill-winke In all honesty, your discussion of buying property that others can’t visualize as being something and make it something-therefore adding value--is SPOT ON. Not just in hunting ground but any investment in real estate. And, it is a heck of a lot of fun.
@@tommyhunter1817 There is no doubt. It is a blast and it provides a useful service.
😊Dream Big brother 🙏
Thanks Edward. You too.
I think i mentioned adopting me a couple videos ago.....
Still considering it Steve.
Look out Jordan. Somebody’s trying to move in on you!
O yeah and everyone is timbering there land first then wanting double what it is worth forgot about that in my post.
Yes, it can't keep going like it has been. I think you will see a slow down in the next year. Good luck.
That is the part I had to deal with when buying my land. Guy high-graded everything, then wanted a price per acre that would be charged for land that has marketable timber. I had to pull comps and show what those parcels look like vs his. Ultimately, it worked, but it comes down to if the seller is reasonable or not. Some will not listen and keep believing their property is worth the same per acre as flat old growth timberland.
@@wolfpack4128same thing is happening here in Ky. Crazy prices !! Take the best and leave the rest a mess. Then charge 150% of what it’s worth. It’s almost comical seeing how long these parcels sit for sale.
Bill are you still writing for Magazines?
I write a little bit for Bowhunter Magazine. Petersen's Bowhunting went away, which made me sad as that was the first magazine I wrote for back in 1991. I should do a bit more writing, but there aren't many magazines left, unfortunately. Have a great day.
land doesn't go up in value, the dollar just continues to lose value... buy now don't wait!
Ryan, I really think that is part of the reason everyone was buying in 2021 and 2022 - a hedge against inflation.
I'm waiting for the 2008 style 40% drop. Happens every 17.6 years on average......
It is possible. That came right after a big run up. People forget that recreational land made a huge jump from 1995-2005 (probably tripled in price in my area). It was still climbing in 2007 right before the banking crisis brought everything to a stop. Not sure if there is some kind of ripple on the horizon now, but I just don't see the prices running away and hiding from here. At least not for a while. Good luck.
40% did not happen on rural property in deer country! Maybe on urban real estate.
@@midwesternoutdoorsandnatur8272 30 to 40% nation wide average. Definitely not the same everywhere. 20% drop sure would send some folk underwater even on lands your referring to
@@midwesternoutdoorsandnatur8272 also depends of what you call deer Country. I seen some areas hit more than 40%. Secondary properties like recreational hunting properties can be hit the hardest. Primary residence will hold much longer than recreational In my opinion. For several reasons like lone availability and when people get strapped for cash the last thing they buy is hunting property
@@personalprojectile Rec land in southern Iowa dropped about 10% maybe during the decade from 2008 to 2018. Not sure about other areas.
Bill could you send me a link to the Whitetail Properties add of your Old Farm?
Here it is. They just reduced the price dramatically: www.whitetailproperties.com/hunting-land/iowa/monroe/legendary-southern-iowa-hunting-farm-dialed-in-for-season
Great info, thanks for sharing Bill. Trading up is the way to go. You save up, buy what you can, delay gratification by living very frugal. Then sell and buy another. You have to marry a frugal patient wife who loves you for your body, not your money like my wife did ;) and it can be done. Don't forget Jesus. The investments made for Christ and His kingdom will far out last anything you accumulate on this earth. After all as Ricky Skaggs says, "You can't take it with you when you go!"
Agree with all of that. I also think that finding a self-employment side job (may take time) is a good way to increase savings. You just have to be careful not to become too obsessed with the goal and up working all the time. Balance is a big deal. Good luck.
@@bill-winke Yes, if you have the skill and no how to start a succesul business, that can afford you opportunities most do not have. For a young person who has some drive to work, simple investment in an S&P index fund, or and ETF (Exchange Traded Fund) pegged to the S&P will get you 9% interest compounded over averaged 20 years. I started working whenever I was 16 years ago and I wish I new this. If a 16 year old today starts investing $100 a month by opening a trading account and buying shares in an ETF as mentioned above, he will have $4800 at age 20. Then as you get a better job add more and it will start multiplying faster. Buy an older truck and pay it off fast, then put a new truck payment in your ETF if you can. If you could add $400 to the $100 for $500/month when you turn 20, at 30 years old, you've got $64,000 for for a nice downpayment. If you add a new truck payment in there, you might be able to pay cash for a 50 acre piece. Lot's of ways to get there, but you will have to be disciplined and delay gratification.