Is Taylor Swift Queer Baiting? And is it ok to ask?
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
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/ gaylorswift
thank you for saying that real people can't queerbait! the amount of people I've seen saying that is so frustrating
I think there's something to be said though about how "real" celebrities are. Yes there's a real person in there somewhere, but there's also a business curating the public image that we see
@@complainer406that says more about you really. You seem hyperfocused on what YOU think she's doing when not many celebrities can handle the fame and scrutiny she has and constantly gets with the kind of grace that she's been able to give it. Other people disappear, slow down or go through a mental breakdown and cancel shows and projects. She's still going. Gaylors have harassed her, her bf, her family, his family, her friends, his family...... so what public image do you think you're seeing when she's not even allowed to protect her personal life?
@@iluvfri3nds One possible public image that we could be seeing is that she is handling the fame and scrutiny with as much grace as we think she is.
Do fans know if she has a therapist who helps her deal with the stress (or more) that come with experiencing and witnessing so much harassment?
I’m not a Swiftie so that’s a genuine question.
On one hand like being LGBT+ it’s private information so they don’t need to reveal that they are seeing a therapist or dealing with mental health issues. On the other hand for a few of the other acts that I am more of a devoted fan of they have been open that they have and get help for mental illnesses such as depression.
@@iluvfri3ndsYou seem to be interpreting having a stage persona/public-facing persona as someone projecting something negative when in many cases it's just a business arrangement. E.g. It's well documented that k-pop idols are required to always appear single because it's good for their music sales--and equally well documented that they do date in secret. You could view that as a type of "baiting" with the public persona which is fictional.
@@iluvfri3nds A good portion (not all of course, because people are sometimes just weird and toxic) of the things she's fallen under fire for is of he own doing. Like her jet-setting, not property paying her crew, lack of Covid precautions and the fact that she only cries about feminism when she's receiving criticism but is otherwise quiet on the topic. But if you bring any of that up you get mobbed by people who think their fave can literally do no wrong.
Real people aren't queer baiting. Nobody owes anyone to come out. Queer baiting is when you make a TV show where you continue to make subtext that implies a queer relationship because you want to cater to that audience but you never make it official. Not when a real person doesn't tell you her sexuality. And I think it's disturbing that other people are so invested in the sexual or romantic orientation of a stranger.
But criticizing other media has the same risks? If quietly queer show runners add in that subtext but aren’t comfortable going all in with out characters? Like The Matrix had “transbaiting” moments that are given context with the sisters’ transition.
Seems like by that measure we shouldn’t speculate on queerbaiting at all.
Tbh I wouldn't even consider the TV thing to be "queerbaiting" because like... sometimes you have to work with the censorship environment. Sometimes you have to imply queerness without showing it because not every TV Show or Movie or Book is made in a queer friendly environment
@@BlackLotusVisualArchive
I would agree if I hadn't seen boards of cishet white men demand a little queerness that can be deleted for what they believe "foriegners" want.
It requires nuance, as with all things.
Take Star Trek for example.
Deep Space Nine had a lot of subtextual queer rep due to an amazing cast and crew, writers and set staff very much included.
They had to work under rather horrible producers, and made something flawed but beautiful for those that are in the know.
Star Wars made a big to do about its lesbian kiss.
It was a cuttable moment followed up by an alien that appears disgusted by seeing it.
Disney used it as bait.
@@taylor3950 queerbaiting has to be intentional. Just adding queer subtext is not the same as doing so and then loudly shouting about it or focusing on it in marketing with a wink wink nudge nudge but never delivering.
Yes I think Teen Wolf is the perfect Queerbaiting example. There wasn't a lot of subtext in the show itself but StilesxDerek was so big in the fandom that the creators made a commercial with both of the actors on a "ship" being pretty physically affectionate. which led to nothing in the show itself.
I understand why a person might be curious about a celebrity's sexuality, but that's where it should stop. Our assumptions are OUR problem, not THEIRS. And we need to stop making it theirs.
Also I'm so sorry for the absurd amount of internet harassment you're about to receive just because the Gaylors are...not happy when they're criticized for their lack of reading comprehension.
Exactly. People need to learn how to mind their own business.
It’s only said the second someone shows signs of being outside of the norm. It’s faux support to engage in a narrative that it’s respectful to act as if someone talking should be met with silence, debate about what they aren’t and so on.
Why can’t it be ok to acknowledge a person’s own words without bickering about disrespect and ”the person’s own business”. As a straight person, I have not once in my entire life heard that my sexuality is ”just your own business and people need to stay out of my business”. It’s considered harmful, neutral and as it should be to be straight, and the second it isn’t then all of the sudden this nervous and toxic narrative comes along all in the name of ”protection and respect of a person’s integrity”.
Can we speak up and be supportive without potentially pushing someone further in? I have friends who are lesbian who were terrified of coming out because they kept getting ”support” by others who said nonsense such as ”she is not a lesbian, she doesn’t look like one, you are cruel for saying that, why would she be a lesbian” and so on. Imagine feeling insecure and being scared of not being accepted and on top of that you need to hear awful things about who you are all in the name of protecting you from the ”rude” people who tries to come to you and share that you’re more than alright as you are. To have someone jump in and ”defend” like that is so horrible, because they only show the person outside of the norm that they should continue to hide and who they are is not ok.
A safe place can be created where people feel safe with sharing who they are at the core, instead of putting the lid on and act as if anything good has come out of it. It’s not creating a nice space for anyone who needs to feel validsted and supported, to over and over say it’s disrespectful to ask. I work part time with legal cases where I constantly have to ask people (women and children) if they are subjected to domestic abuse. By not asking people what they have been taught is wrong to share in public, we as a society only make people stay in their secrets for longer when they need to understand there is no shame or guilt for them there and it’s not their responsibility to make themselves smaller so predators or opressors and phobic people feel more at easy and can dictate what happens with the people they attack.
Do you see the difference and what is actual protection? No one is helped if we don’t discuss the closet and what it does to people. This can be done without targeting specific people. We must reach this point! /Scandinavian former psychology student and current law student who soon graduates
@@soilgrasswaterair I don't know what hypothetical you're ranting about, but I'm talking about a woman who has repeatedly said that she's not queer and is made uncomfortable by the whole-chested assertion by a part of her fanbase that she must be so closeted that she's built a massive conspiracy to keep it out of the press. I know a lot of us in Jessica's audience are neurospicy and easily distracted but we're not talking about a closeted queer person here. Let's get that, um, straight.
You are not a safe space. Gay rumors are not safe for closeted people. And Gaylors speculate about so many people adjacent to Taylor being gay and heavily closeted. Her ex-boyfriends have to be gay. But wait they are now in long term relationships with women? Then they speculate about who they think are her former or current girlfriends? But wait they got married to men? Well those men are now also gay. So then you end up with the best friend of the husband of Taylor's former friend being speculated to be gay. Yeah, he sure feels your support when he reads about his wife being his beard who is four steps removed from Taylor. They have kids, who will one day be online but whatever, right? All of these people are heavily closeted in your own theories but you guys post about it like you solved a fun mystery.@@soilgrasswaterair
"Her physical demeanor and ability to drape her long limbs over both furniture and people" is award-winning writing. 😂😂😂
I think a big part of this is that the two bins in people's brains labeled "fictional" and "nonfiction" have a lot of stuff inside them that should really be in the other one. Taylor Swift is a real person, but she gets a lot of stories told about her as if she were a thing to play with and not someone with agency and feelings
This is the core reason that RPF has always made me so uncomfortable
The assumption that fiction is nonfiction, too! Like if an author writes something and people then assume it must come from their own life and experience, like isn't the whole point of writing fiction that we can be creative and come up with stories? That we can imagine situations we haven't always personally been in? That even when our stories are inspired by real life, they still become particular to the fictional characters and details and go off in their own directions?
People are weird someone shipped my friends' crush with my least favorite celebrity ever
I think people need to learn the term "performative activism" because, from what I've seen, that's what people actually mean (or what they are trying to get at) a lot of the time when they say a real person is queerbaiting. A real person cannot be held responsible for failing to live up to what are essentially headcanons about them, but they can (and should) be criticised for shallow allyship, fetishisation, using queer history inappropriately, etc. This applies to all celebrities people have assumed are queer, whether grounded in reality or not - and also to out queer celebrities!
This!
Yea this is what people actually mean lol. A good example is Katy perry
I agree but for Swift - She donates generously to LGBT orgs inclusing to combat anti lgbt bills and does actual ally stuff.
The Taylor swift queer baiting accusations is absolutely about people forgetting their real person fanfic is not real
But Taylor also refuses to address the homophobia in her own fandom which I think is an important step she needs to take to be a true ally
@@Hakainokamiyeah, I mean I get their point but honestly I’ve never felt like she used queer relationships to try to market herself in any way, I think a lot of queer people can relate to her lyrics but some take that to mean that she herself is queer (also I assume there are straight people who believe she is queer as well). Granted I don’t know everything about her but her being a vocal ally doesn’t mean that she’s a part of the group she’s an ally for yk, I think it’s actually harmful 4 people to assume anybody who supports a community must be part of said community
As a queer swiftie (like, BIG swiftie), I definitely enjoy queer readings of her lyrics, which drew me into gaylor groups. But once you get past the fun bits... I question if many of them even like Taylor at this point. It feels like some of the worst examples of parasocial relationships and I have a lot of sympathy for those who intertwine their own identity so thoroughly with celebrities.
Same issue here. I found Reddit to (oddly) be more logical about queer theories and respecting her private life more than anywhere else, but it still feels... parasocial and invasive sometimes, so I mostly just opt out entirely of online theories anymore, and on the rare instances I do say anything at all, I *_always_* emphasize that any personal interpretation I have is just that - a personal interpretation. I'll admit it does get a little frustrating because, on the one hand, she DOES market her private life through her primarily autobiographical lyrics and has even stated in interviews that she doesn't mind the theories because "at least they're reading the lyrics" - but I hate to encourage hyperobsessively parasocial weirdos at this point, and I mean that regardless of whatever orientation any such "fan" assumes she has. People are so insufferably creepy with celebrities, it's just... ugh. Go and find some OUT queer artists to support.
anyone forming parasocial relationships needs therapy asap so makes sense theyre not great people
Gaylors do not like Taylor. They like the queer reading they create of her, in order to fetishise queer women. If they liked her they would not project their weird fanfictions onto her.
@@bothi00 We all have developed parasocial relationships to some extent. This is how our brain works, there is no way around it. After all, we get a lot of content about someone's life or statements in general. Our brain creates the illusion that we know this person. The problem comes when people go deep into it and forget about the fact that we really don't know shit about the people we follow on SM, tabloids and interviews
@@aleksandrakeska2290 ..no we haven't. Most people can recognise and distance themselves from the people they are fans of and whose content they consume
Hear hear!! Let's leave Taylor (and all the other artists, actors etc) alone. We aren't entitled to know people's desires and frankly it's just fucking wierd to be constantly demanding the intimate details of strangers lives!!
keyword is "strangers". so many people, including me in the past, think of celebrities like they personally know them, which is what leads to fans being invested in their lives like this... thing is, i do still go absolutely crazy about certain artists (i was one of those fangirls screeching their lungs out at a concert just this september), but i now understand that that "relationship" i have with them is only a relationship with their art. and yes, the stage persona they put on while working (because they're working!! noone goes around assuming that a police officers or teachers or doctors personality that they show during their job is their full real personality so why for celebrities?) is part of that art. but engaging with that personality does not give me any more rights to be up in their personal business like that than seeing a painting or reading a book created by someone would.
yes. some people treat celebrities as characters in tv show. it is weird.
I tend to agree, but then, as Jessica mentioned, she does market her private life.
I do so so agree with you!
@@hopegold883and that is also her right. I would not do it because if you do it you lose your authenticity bit.by.bit and you lose eventually connectedness with your core, your inner most self, your potential fire, that started as a spark when you came into being.
"You're not guilty for putting your personal safety first." THANK YOU!!! I've always valued my safety as it's rare that I ever truly felt safe... I always felt guilty for it, too, because people say that makes me part of the problem.... Thank you for saying that. I do stand up when I feel I have the strength to do so and prevent harm... but when I feel I'll only make matters worse? I walk away. I hate myself for it... but sometimes walking away is the wiser answer.
You shouldn't feel guilty. You are not part of the problem, and by surviving it you equip yourself to do your part better when you DO get a chance. Survival is crucial to resistance! I'm sorry anyone made you feel that way because of their own insecurity. You are enough ❤
@@scobeymeister1 Thank you! 🤗🥰 Reading your words brought tears to my eyes... Thank you....
projecting onto art from your point of view by pulling through your experiences is part of the fun of enjoying art BUT once that crosses the line into projecting onto the actual artist themselves is where things get dangerous!!
we don’t need to latch onto random vanilla celebs, there’s so many real well known queer people of the past & that are RIGHT there who we can support & celebrate!!!
Hard agree!
this
this 100% I can definitely relate to taylor's songs as a queer person, she clearly doesn't mind having lgbt people relate to her art and has shown support for her queer fans in her audience numerous times and even offered her songs for queer media; but some fans just take it way too far
The danger of being called gay 😭😭😭
Wow, not really related to the main topic of the video, but when you explained how you and Claudia's interpretations of female friendships differ I had the biggest realization moment. I also had the "straight teen" experience and I have noticed a similar disconnect even after coming out, and I was never able to really put a name to that until now!
As a queer Taylor Swift fan I couldn't care less what sexuality she is, obviously it would be wonderful if someone i love and look up to is the same as me, but if she's not, that's fine too. As a WLW of course i interpret queerness in her lyrics because that makes them mean more to me and my life. But if she says she's straight she's straight. If she comes out tomorrow then tomorrow she's gay. You don't know her, you have to take her word for what SHE is.
33:38
“Snape/Harry from Harry Potter”
I really don’t want this to be a misspeak of “Draco/Harry” because the idea that Jessica thinks that Snape/Harry is the most popular MLM Harry Potter ship is VERY funny.
It certainly has it's fans but I agree it's far from the most popular ship and it's very funny to think that many people love shipping a teacher who is in his 30s with his teenage student. Even worse if we use the movies because Alan Rickman was obviously a lot older
@@DieAlteistwiederda shipping Snape/Harry is no worse than shipping Snape/Hermione. I've not been an active part of the potter fanfic community for over a decade, so my knowledge of it is out of date, but in the early days (2002-2004) Snape/Harry was way larger than Harry/Draco. You were more likely to see Snape/Draco or all 3. I think the events of Book 7 have changed how many readers see Draco significantly.
@DieAlteistwiederda Snape/Harry is the third most popular M/M ship in Harry Potter fandom on ao3 with over 16k fics to its name (and it's in the top 10 overall). To say it's far from the most popular fic in the fandom is a mischaracterization.
It's that it came up at all that's funny to me. (Also HP has so much teacher/student and honestly I blamed the 80s and 90s for making us listen to hot for teacher so many times😅 I know so many kids in hs had crushes on teachers (who wouldnt touch a student) and I guess everyone wrote fanfic about it.
So glad I'm not the only one who took note of this haha
people had been feeling that they know everything in Taylor's life (this coming from a fan). I've seen theories about her sexuality, potential marriages and even Miscarriages, which to me is totally disrespectful. But sadly is not new, she's been exposed to the medie since she was 16, and like every other young/ child "celebrity" the media and people feel they have a say in that person's life. I feel it's something so sad, not only for Taylor and the people around her, but to other celebrity whose sexuality has been question, like Harry Styles, Shawn Mendes, Camila Cabello, etc
as a former larrie (people that believe in the conspiracy of two celebrities secretly being in a relationship) the absolute creepiness of these theories is astounding. this specific "fandom" i was in, we speculated about marriages too, they literally couldn't wear specific colours without us making it into some "sign" they're secretly hinting to us with, and even denied the existence of a literal real child to make sense of our conspiracy. it's fucking wild
Totally agree. I’ve been a fan of Taylor since her debut album. It’s ridiculous how people think they know her and get mad if she’s not “open enough” for their liking. She’s been in the public eye for almost 20 years now, and honestly it’s amazing how well she’s carried herself and never went off the deep end like many young stars who grow up in the media. I couldn’t be happier for her and her new relationship with Travis Kelce, and I hope they live happily ever after! But I also know she will continue to give us amazing music about it either way!
Agreed 100%. Celebrities are all human, there’s nothing special about them other than the fact that they make music that we like, have performances that we want to watch. It’s still incredibly disrespectful to assume things about them and make up stories about them that we shouldn’t be meddling with. It’s their lives, and it’s none of our business. Celebrities do not owe anything to their fans- all they owe them is good music, good performance, professionalism. Nothing else.
Oof. That's a perspective that I had never considered. I'm very much in the same boat as Claudia for this one. While I self identify as queer now (NB, ace) I was socialized as female and am visibly identifiable as such. I have always had very affectionate physical friendships throughout my life and have definitely taken for granted the fact that friendships were just "like that". I never would have thought twice about how long I was hugging my friend. That's heartbreaking to hear that something so incredibly fundamental to our human primate nature is being internally policed by people in your position. Reminiscent of the way that men are externally socialized to repress those needs... I'm so sorry you had that added pressure. 💔💚
Some fans have way too much time to over analyze things that aren't actually hurting anyone or their business.
This right here. I truly love the music and sure, some tracks especially resonate with my queer a**, but Taylor Swift doesn't owe me her personal life and I don't owe her that percentage of my brain space.
You do know they write whole books on individual plays by some artists!
You do know they write whole books on individual plays by some artists!
You do know they write whole books on individual plays by some artists!
When I was younger, the term 'queerbaiting' described the sort of thing that happened to Matthew Shepard - the luring of a queer person with pretended queerness before proceeding on to 'queerbashing'. Every single time I see that word used to describe manipulating implications for commercial success, I remember friends I've seen broken and bruised after being attacked ,and shudder at the way the word downplays brutality. Every. Single. Time.
But yeah, I'm old, and one day people of my generation will be dead and no longer picture beaten friends or remember Matthew Shepard's face when the term is used, so that's fine.
amen to that
(boomer here)
so sorry to hear that that is your experience. I think it's hard to navigate language metamorphosis and being sensitive to people's experience of historical usage. I think it would be great to see more nuanced and compassionate discussion of this topic.
@@geenskeenThat would be sort of like navigating using 'lynching' to describe someone being snubbed at the Oscars. (See "beaten mostly to death and then hung out on a fence to finish dying" in the example above.)
@@JKBrown there are probably examples of language being used in a similar way. I think that Gen Z has never heard the word queerbaiting with the meaning you know it to have. It is basically an entirely different word to them that sprung up independently.
I'm not a Taylor Swift fan (just not my thing), but this was such an astute analysis of this whole situation. I particularly loved your point about the ease of physical affection between straight teenage girls. Even before I realised my queerness, there was that layer of weird awareness of physical affection and what it could mean.
Omg, same! I just left a similar comment! lol
thank u fr, the amount of times I've heard someone saying ''they're queer baiting!!'' just beacuse someone was being themselves :(
As someone on the asexual spectrum I want more asexual representation on tv shows!
Or alternatively, less always creating romantic drama for the main characters....
@@ravent3016not ace (i think) but it's really annoying how a lot of people can't seem to make characters that don't need a romantic/sexual partner to live
same with aroace
Here's my unsolicited take:
You can speculate with out turning those speculations into rumors. As the old saying goes, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say amything at all. Spreading rumors of any kind is never a nice thing, especially rumors that could harm a person.
why even speculate? it's strange to be spending any amount of time wondering and thinking about a stranger's sexuality
It’s not even a speculation, tho. Taylor has explicitly said in an official interview in 2019 that she didn’t know until recently that she could be an ally (that she didn’t need to be a part of the community in order to support LGBTQ).
And she also said in a Tumblr post that she has never experienced homophobia whereas Hayley Kiyoko has
19:30 thoseflashinggreeneyes is wrong; the BLACK community invented shade. We can use it, but we must honour its origins.
I feel like the Gaylor movement is an example of a trend I've noticed in fandom culture over the last 20 years: fan-theory confirmation bias.
With the Internet being widely accessible and most fan spaces being consolidated into social media sites rather than personal blogs, it has become easier and easier for people to get their fan theories about pieces of media out there, and thus, more people learn about these theories, gather evidence for them, and whole-heartedly believe them to be true. (Something similar is also happening regarding conspiracy theories, but that's a whole other can of worms.)
So when a piece of media has a new episode or installment that explicitly deconfirms a fan theory, people will often either rage out against the specific episode/installment, declaring it to be horrible and/or dismissing it as "non-canonical", or they will re-write the fan theory to accommodate for the new twist. The proliferation of fan theories has often made it near-impossible for writers to have properly foreshadowed plot twists without some wise guy online figuring everything out before it's going to happen and ruining at least part of the surprise.
In fact, it's been postulated that the reason _The Last Jedi_ and _The Rise of Skywalker_ both turned out to be so messy and eclectic is because they genuinely wanted to surprise people, so they kept bringing on new directors and scrapping plot points in order to ensure that no fan theorist would be able to catch onto what they were doing. They wrote by the seat of their pants to dissuade fan theorists from "predicting" what's going to happen next, thinking that would be the worst-case scenario; but little did they know, the harsh reaction from the fan theorists in not having their theories proven is actually far worse than the reaction from fan theorists who "knew it all along", and that it is _far_ more important than to have a coherent plot than a shocking one.
Gaylorism is what happens when these fan-theorization techniques, traditionally used for pieces of fictional media, fall into the hands of a real-life musician's fandom. Combing through songs to find bits of what they perceive as evidence, using symbology that probably means nothing as evidence to support their theory, dismissing every piece of counter-evidence as either "fake" or "a horrid betrayal of the fandom", ruining the ability for Taylor and other celebrities to keep things under wraps... those are all things that fan theorization has done. Except instead of the overarching plot of a media franchise, it's a woman's real-life sexuality that they're trying to will into existence.
I find it really really doubtful that a queer woman who is intent on keeping her Sapphic side private, would go about adding bi-sexual Easter Eggs in her videos, hoping no one else would ever notice and find her out.
maybe she wants to hint at her queerness, for her queer fans to pick up on it, but she's not ready to come out to the whole world
@@kathrynrose5631 Not everything is The Da Vinci Code. Ms. Swift is 34 years old in this year of our lord 2024. IF she was going to come out to the world, she would have done so by now. It isn't the 20thC any more, and no one is controlling her career, so I find it hard to think she is "Q-dropping" queer-coded context into her songs thinking the normies won't notice, like George Michael did in "Freedom '90" (great song btw).
I'll admit that sometimes I'll intentionally dress in bisexual colors as a sort of hint-hint wink-wink, so I wouldn't completely discount the idea of her giving hints. That being said, the reason why I'll hint at myself in public is because I feel unsafe to state it allowed and want the correct people to read into this and maybe give me a safe space. If she actually were giving bisexual easter eggs, the last thing that fans should do is make her feel socially or physically unsafe.
@@crashb800 this is why I think it's okay to discuss gaylor theories in fandom spaces, but more morally questionable for mainstream publications to write articles about it
@@kathrynrose5631 Yea definitely, if one actually did think that Taylor was hiding clues about her being queer, writing a mainstream article as about the last thing to do.
Real people can't queerbait about their own sexuality and no one owes us coming out. I'm so glad you talked about this, the situation is a real shitshow and while I feel bad for gaylors they also need to get a grip and stop investing so much time and energy into speculation.
An aside, if you'd like fandoms where f/f ships are more popular than m/f or m/m, i implore you to look into sailor moon. There are cannon queer women in the show, and many thoughtful, welcoming, relatable queer readings/headcannons for characters who are not explicitly labeled as queer in the text.
I'm 64 bi cis female, funny thing is l have never been asked. People assume. It would be great if people had open honest conversations. As far as public people, I don't care who they are attracted to, but the goodness they put in the world.
I mean, there's also the idea of people who are incredible allies because they don't understand something about themselves, but they know they support LGBTQI+ people. Not saying Taylor is one of these either, but there are all kinds of situations that we're not privy to, that *she* might not be privy to. I, personally, am completely willing to accept her alliance at face value--she has the ability to do wonderful things for us, and we should never discount that. Also, it's ultimately none of our damn business.
I agree but I would also add that taking people at face value is actually better for those who turn out to be LGBTQ+! I know a lot of bi women or questioning straight women who have told me they were afraid of claiming a space they weren't entitled to, to explore, to be offensive to queer people because they weren't sure or were just very rare attracted to women (whether or not that was coercive heteronormartivity they had not deconstructed or real).
Exactly
Taylor has said in an interview that she was not comfortable stating her political views, as she grew up in the era of the Dixie Chicks being ousted off the country music scene after they expressed their political views about George W. Bush. She was reminded time and time again to be a good girl and not to express any political stance, so she didn't end up like them.
I think it took a lot of growing and reflecting from her to reach a point to be active and vocal about her political views. There's even a scene where she's seen arguing with here father about this, in here documentary, Miss Americana.
Small correction: the picture at 10:06 is not Matty Healy. I’m not sure who he is, though. :p
Also, I never thought “Girls” by Rita Ora had iffy lyrics- one of the lines is literally “I’m 50/50 and I’m never gonna hide it”. Never really understood the outrage from that one.
That's Nick Grimshaw
50/50 isn't usually the best way to describe bisexuality, as it's not two halves of two other identities but one complete identity all too itself, maybe that's where people got the iffy vibe from? (As a bi girl myself, I never had a problem with it. It's an easy reference with a lot of potential for jokes, lol. But I know some people dislike it.)
If you don’t think Taylor Swift can be in the closet because she’s privileged, you’re more privileged. It is still very “unacceptable” to be gay in most places. Taylor does not have to share what she does in the bedroom in order to support the lgbtqia community. It does not matter if she is or isn’t gay. She has every right for you not to know that personal information about her. It quite literally could save her life because of some of the places and situations she finds herself in as one of the most famous (and therefore vulnerable) woman in the world.
That reminds me. Let's say... if Taylor would to come out, she'll face deplatforming from many countries that still ban LGBT+, even with her size. One would say, any big brand wouldn't risk that because that's a huge population you'll miss out on sales. But also, it would risk further alienation of the very LGBT+ people in those conservative countries and they would have less access to said brand content and the communities built around it. Hence I think allyship exposure (be it done by those in closet) is better in the long run in helping society be more empathetic. (e.g. younger Japanese are less likely to be shocked when they see a black person because they grew up watching a morning show with a black man in it)
I apologize if I'm not coherent, English isn't my first language.
as a gaylor who generally tries to keep it respectful (like by finding queer themes in taylor's music, or thinking about how her songs resonate with my own experiences of queerness), thank you for not just saying "all gaylors are horrible people" like I've seen a lot of people doing lately. I agree that taylor does not owe a declaration of her sexuality to anyone, but I think queer readings of art are okay.
I'm not the biggest fan of when people actually write articles about this, though. I think it should stay within fandom spaces.
Yeah, whilst it's kinda validating to have proper articles published in support after the amount of times gaylors get called delusional, they often end up bringing the community (one obviously made up of a lot of queer people) under fire as more people outside of the fandom become aware of it.
fr stay out of our family business like......
14:27 “… which surprises me every time I remember that fact.”
Oh, that is so relatable!
Taylor Swift first got her start 19 years ago. not 10. Point remains the same but she has been around for nearly 20 years. People often forget that. It takes a lot of talent to not only keep going but to keep getting bigger for 20 years.
You mean a lot of PR.
I'm not a Swiftie and I remember how the Ye snafu raised her cultural relevance from cute pop star to maligned white princess.
There's a reason why she was/is the right and alt-right's poster girl.
Taylor Swift is a person and corporation just as any mega pop star is. That has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with positionality.
And this is not me discrediting her skills as a singer songwriter, it's just that talent is not why she's maintained her superstar status.
That's it.
@@zucchinigreen this is actually hysterical. 😂
@zucchinigreen from what I have seen the right isn't a fan of her. I saw a clip of cadence owens ripping into taylor swift. In her doc miss americana she explains how in order to survive in the music industry for so long female artists need to evolve. From that I think she has found the things that work for her and leaned into it and created what she has. And yes I am aware she comes from money. She could have all the money in the world but if she sings like crap, has crap songs she wouldn't have lasted this long. She writes good songs and is a storyteller. Folklore and evermore are awesome albums and most recently with midnights.
@@zucchinigreen ok you said a lot of words that simply add up to you literally know nothing about her. "The rights poster girl". Of all the ridiculous and hilarious things I have ever heard... Dear Lord. 😂
@@zucchinigreen please. As soon as Taylor “got political” and started speaking out about elections, misogyny, and LGBTQ rights, the right hate her. There are plenty of white, straight, conservative girls to pick if they want a poster child. Taylor ain’t it.
I'd never heard of the suspicion that Swift wasn't straight. I also really don't care. I'm happy for those queer artists who are openly so, but that has to be their choice to be so. Nobody should be forced to express who they are or aren't attracted to.
These past two videos have reminded me why I subbed to you. You always put out content that validates what I have been fruitlessly telling ppl in my real life and being dismissed. You put it all so comprehensively. I just have to show them your videos and then they understand. And it's all very important stuff. You have no idea how much this helps. Thank you so much.
I was briefly sucked into gaylorism - never vocally online, I just watched videos, read tumblr posts, and talked to some of my friends about it, - but after awhile it just started to feel sad. Because I really do think the driving force of that fandom *is* just that…it would be so cool. It would mean so much. TAYLOR SWIFT being queer. Especially if you’re queer and a fan of her. But the thing is, that doesn’t make it real. And it also doesn’t make the extreme parasocial behavior okay or healthy
The Star Trek fandom is abundant with F/F ships, FTR. Janeway/Seven, Uhura/Chapel, Kira/Dax, Detmer/Owasekun (hoping the final season of DIS makes that canon, TBH), Crusher/Troi, T'Pol/Hoshi... And I can name a good dozen more off the top of my head.
And Star Trek has a queer canon F/F couple in the Picard series! Seven of Nine and Raffi. I really hope they'll make another series at some point that will allow us to see more of them.
@@StarshelleThey got broken up (off screen) for Season 3, but if that spin-off Terry Matalas clearly wants to do happens maybe he'll listen to the pushback he got on that.
Here’s my take as a very very queer Swiftie:
People will think what they think, and no one can control that, and I can continue to think what I think about Taylor. It a becomes a problem when fans force their interpretations or ideas of her songs onto her. I think the most unreasonable part is forcing anyone to come out, which could happen to Taylor in the future if it is true and the pressure continues. This has happened many times to actors and it is a real problem (take Kit Conner for example). I have one friend who I talk to about my swiftie theories and we would absolutely never want Taylor to feel any pressure from her fans about anything, but I know that it is an inevitable part of being a public figure.
I mean this nyt article is super similar to one from like a year or two ago about Harry Styles so Taylor's PR team should know they would do that to male celebrities
Was the Harry article in something like NYT? 'Cause tabloids will always write trash but one of the points with Tayor was that it was from a legitimate news source. (NYT has been headed down the toilet for the past decade, but is still vastly more important than any tabloid.)
I was watching, enjoying the points Jessica was making, then she touched my soul - I have always found myself feeling weird about miscommunicating attraction to any gender even before I realized I was bi / pan. I've always wondered how other girls were so touchy feely with each other and comfortable about it while I wasn't - at all. But I'm a hugger! A careful hugger... 🤔😳🤯 This part blew my mind in a good way ❤ I think I understand myself a little bit better now! Thank you for that!
I didn’t know any of the Taylor Swift drama but I very much enjoyed the in depth information and relating it to our shared queer experiences and the history of queer baiting etc, so thank you!
As a (respectful) gaylor I appreciate your empathy and kindness in talking about this. The only thing I would add is that gaylors receive much hate from swifties, a lot of times they're directly homophobic towards us. So when Taylor Swift says something "anti-gaylor" (anything that swifties can use against us) a lot of gaylors are hurt, not because she's "queerbaiting", but because then we receive a lot of extra hate. One example of this was when Taylor said the song "Betty" was from the pov of a boy, gaylors received a lot of hate for thinking the song was queer-coded and some even got doxxed.
I think criticism is always needed, but we don't deserve hate, especially not slurs and homophobic arguments disguised as anti-gaylorism.
There's also a lot of division within the gaylor fandom, most of us don't think she's queerbaiting, that she has to come out, or that the media should be speculating about her sexuality. But there are always groups of people saying harmful shit, like in all fandoms.
You know your entire comment is false, Betty was always very obviously from a male perspective and no most swifties are not homophobic gaylors say they are just cause we don't think she's gay and is using her boyfriends as beards. There's no such thing as a respectful gaylor at all. Gaylors aren't people who listen to taylors song while applying it to themselves instead of face value lyrics it's people who then project that out taylor herself also the whole "so once she says something anti gaylor were kind of hurt" is the most stupid thing I've ever heard cause when she doesn't almost everyone in the gaylor fandom she her silence is confirmation that she is queer
As always, so eloquently put!! :) Thank you for spreading awareness and thank you for explaining this in a way that I can now take with me for future conversations with others on this topic!!
I feel that on hugging my friends. Although in a sense it was more of teachers getting a bit upset over it, because they assumed I didn't ask for permission to do so.
I swear sometimes the teachers would get mad, because they didn't receive a lot of hugs themselves.
I don't think I coud name a single Taylor Swift song let alone her friends or people she's dated prior to watching this video. Still love any reason for you to keep making your always entertaining and educational content.
What makes me mad is that they could be supporting a lot of actual LGBT artists. Instead of being mad that your fav isn’t, find a fav who is. Prop up actual indie lgbt artists.
Taylor has always said she wants us to relate her songs to our lives. So if you’re queer, you cry, rage, and reminisce about a queer relationship, sure. But she’s also said she is not part of the community just an ally. So making elaborate think pieces about how she’s lying seems really rude.
you're so right! we need to stop accusing people of queerbaiting! Like we have zero right to know any individual's sexuality, and trying to pry people out of the closet is such a gross behaviour. But it also seems so prescriptive- playing into the sterotype of LGBT being a personality trait you can tell by how someone dresses/acts rather than their sexuality. If someone wants to dress in a slightly non traditional way for our current timeperiod we should jsut let them be (red souled high heels were the height of manliness a few hundred years ago- that they're seen as feminine now is a societal thing)
I am a bisexual woman and I too can relate to worrying about being "too gay" with my female friends and acquaintances. Sometimes, I see straight women holding hands, draping their arms around each other, or even like in the case you described, making out while their boyfriends watch. I just think to myself, I couldn't ever do those things with a woman and call myself straight or do those things with a woman I didn't have some sexual or romantic interest in. Now, I'm realizing that it could very much be more about me, how I grew up, and other things, and I've been projecting my feelings outward. Thank you for this thoughtful video.
As for Taylor, I did spend some time wondering if she was bi or pan, but if she's spent so long insisting that she is an ally and nothing more, I don't think it's up to us to press the matter.
Your video is so expertly put together, thoughtful and informative. But mainly I want to comment and tell you I can't get over how well your outfit matches the set.
JK-F got your consistent informed commentary on all things it’s LGBTQI+ is a godsend. You’re the best of us. Thank you.💜
I must be getting old because so much of the things discussed in the video are news to me. But I'll just say one thing from the cheap seats...whether she's gay/bi/straight/anything else, it's nobody's business but hers. Same as anything private in her life is nobody's business but hers. People don't think how'd they'd feel if complete strangers demanded total access to their lives to bisect and comment on based on what their job is. Just grow up and knock it off.
Real question & not trying to be rude or start fights: if individuals can't "queer bait" what would you call it when legit straight people intentionally "act gay" or illude to being gay, to gain popularity with the LGBTQ+ community without being gay/stating they are straight & not actually caring about the LGBTQ+ community or it's causes/struggles? Because I usually see that referred to as "queer baiting" & if that's not the right term idk what to call it because there is a TikToker who is straight but makes videos with his sister's boyfriend, acting like he's his boyfriend & it always makes me feel uncomfy
From my perspective, it may be useful to consider a second question:
Are you uncomfortable because of the contact? Men are socialised to not drape over others/be tactile unless they are in relationships?
Or are you uncomfortable because there is a perception of cheating?
@@madelainewallace5361 I have no problem with men being affectionate with their male friends I encourage it & I don't have an issue because I preserve it as cheating because it's not, they're not actually together or kiss or anything.
It makes me uncomfy because he tags it as his "boyfriend" & other LGBTQ stuff & intentionally riles queer people in the comments who get excited because they think he's gay/that's his boyfriend. When really it's his sister's boyfriend & he's said before he's straight. So it just makes me uncomfortable that he essentially "pretends to be gay" to get popularity/money from queer people on TikTok if that makes sense?
My husband and his best friends pretend they're boyfriend's. And when they do, their girlfriends and I also pretend we're in relationships. It's pretend, it's fun, it's not serious, it's just affectionate. We're all just teasing and joking with each other in a loving way.
If someone is being affectionate with the same sex to rile queer people up or gain attention, they're trolling. Plain and simple. If they're doing it because that's how they express their friendship, then it's all it is. But if it's for the sole purpose of attention, it's trolling. Queer-baiting is not something individuals can do.
@@gwendolynrobinson3900 they're definitely doing it rile up queer people/get queer attention on TT it's evident by the tags & the way they respond in the comments. People were calling it queer baiting so I wasn't sure if that was the right word or not
I remember when Elliot Page came out as trans and people were flipping out "does this mean [Elliot] betrayed us lesbians?" uhhhghhh. No. It doesn't. It means sometimes people change and evolve over time.
When people find themselves, regardless, I think we should celebrate. And if they say nothing leave them alone? Being force-outted sucks.
This was so informative and thought-provoking in addition to being well-researched. Thank you 💛
Loved this! Really liked the historical context added as well!
I think the choice to foreground Wilde and everything we've lost to forced outing was absolutely inspired! Thank you.
About the prevalence of femslash, I recently found a video by the channel Obviously Queer about hope for F/F in fandom, and it was kind of unique for entries in the Femslash Paucity Debate by paying a lot of attention to areas of growth and excitement, so instead of being bitter or bummed out about the whole situation, I left feeling inspired to write and see what other people are writing. I'd love to see your thoughts!
This was fantastically educational, perfectly timely, & I'm totally sharing this on my social media!
I will never understand why some people think you can't be friends with people that have a gender you are attracted to. Doesn't mean you are automatically attracted to your friend even if they have the right gender technically. Attraction is more than just gender and genitals and all of that. We also are never owed knowing someones identity like that.
Omg a Jessica video about Taylor Swift with a quick mention of Fletcher??? My lesbian soul is singingggg. Thank you for this video Jessica ❤❤❤
Wow, I liked this very much! The example of you and Claudia looking at friendships differently based on your safety in them while growing up was very informative.
Also: the depth and humor of this video remind of of the Docu's that abigail from philosophyTube makes! Possibly you could do a collab in the future?
I think the internet is full of people that will hate you REGARDLESS of how you express yourself, or do. Ie you get hated on if you're fat, hated on if you're skinny. The neigh sayers will always find SOMETHING to put down, or shift the goal posts. Ie the thing with Harry Styles: MULTIPLE NB and Trans identifying people have said for YEARS that their identities and expressions have zilch to do with who they're attracted to.. yet most q men and woman want to hold Harry to a different standard?? Just do and be WHATEVER and WHOEVER makes you happy.
As a married cs het woman i am very phyisicaly affectionate with everyone i know. Unless they indecate they dont like it i'm very cuddly. So the way taylor is with her friends is very relateble to me .
Taylor Swift's songs spoke to me when I was a teenage girl who thought she was straight. I let her fade into the background when she transitioned from pop country to just pop. I thought You Need to Calm Down was kinda cringy and hamfisted, but appreciated the support all the same. I don't see what it is about her that makes people start such drama. She's just a white girl who's talented both musically and at playing the game of music industry success. Maybe everybody really does just need to calm down
Rina Sawayama is so good!!!!! Also love dodie and everyone else, but if people haven’t listened to Rina Sawayama I’d super recommend her!
I think the thing that really irritated me with those blaming Billie Eilish for queerbaiting, is that she is only 22 years old, I think 19-20 when she recorded that song. There's an extreme possibility that she is still figuring out her sexuality. It's like, can we please leave these women alone and let them just be people? I know that it's impossible to ask that, what with how invested everyone is in all famous people's love lives, but it's still awful in my eyes.
Completely agreed, Alexander Avila made a great video on this. I would link to it but links in comments are blocked.
This is a very important video!! No real person should have their sexuality publicly speculated. Taylor has a right to a private life as much as anyone else.
P.S at 10:06 that’s actually a picture of Nick Grimshaw, not Matty Healy
Beautifully and artistically produced video. Perfection. Indeed a pleasure to watch.
I enjoyed this video so much, 2 of my favourite things Jessica talking about queer topics and Taylor Swift. I totally agree with the point of "people can't queerbait", sometimes it gets annoying how a lot of people in the LGBTQ+ community get if something don't go the way they want.
Thank you so much for this video. You have managed to put my complicated feelings on the Taylor Swift issue into words.
Relating to someone's songs about love and relationships even if they're a different sexuality than you just proves that "love is love" and we're all experiencing similar emotions.
I think Taylor Swift using her platform to promote queer rights is a good thing, no matter how she identifies.
I don’t have any thoughts on her, but I do think YOU are AMAZING, Jessica, and enjoyed so many of the points you made in this video. Three cheers to YOU! 🎉🎉🎉
Jessica is such a kind creator, I absolutely adore her
Also, there's a band I personally know and have been a fan of since they were small and they're pretty successful now. They're music has been the soundtrack to my life for 15 years. I read a lot in to it about being disabled, because I am. None of them are, I'm sure that's not the songs' intentions, I know they weren't writing about me, but that's just what you do with art.
I remember when Alexis Arquette try to out Will Smith over an issue that have nothing to do with Smith sexuality the Oscar Boyscott back in 2016 and then say Smith is homophia because he refuse to kiss another man in a movie back in the 1990's after a famous actor tell him not to do it people forget how bad the early 90's was for LGBT people
Great video Jessica, would love to see more on pop culture from you :)
i love you so much thank you for making this for several reasons 💕
Thank you for this amazing video:) It's really important to spread awareness about the effect queerbaiting has on society and all that. Love your rings btw:)
Best video on this topic ever. I love you girl, you’re awesome.
I’ve always viewed my 5ft feminine statue as predatory because of my bisexuality. I didn’t start telling people until I was 20 that I’m bi but it still deeply effected how I interacted with my peers. Thank you for mentioning that overlooked part of growing up in a society that sexualises queerness. There was never anything sexual about the way I thought about the girls around me but I still felt such a deep shame for thinking some of them where really cool and pretty.
It’s really awful. In high school another girl had a crush on me and other students noticed and called her out on her crush on me. It made me really angry that people treated her like that because come on it was high school and crushes were flying all over the place. I wrote her a note where I asked if she wanted to talk with me after school at my place. She arrived at my place the same afternoon (imagine how brave to do that after being mistreated and not knowing what your crush wants to talk to you about at their place). I said I didn’t feel the same, and that she had done nothing wrong and that I was flattered she had a crush on me because that means someone is really fond of you (which felt nice at time when one can struggle to like oneself, and someone sees you and really likes you for being you). I met her at a uni. thing some years ago, and she thanked me for being mature and how much it had helped her to not feel bad or weird about her crush, that I told her it was nothing negative and we all get crushes. Before someone think this was simply my doing, I had asked my dad what to do when someone has a crush on you and you don’t feel the same way and should I add something considering it was a girl. Coming from a home that’s not toxic in regards of sexuality, it set the tone as well to have a parent who took the questions seriously. I told her that she had done me a favor to, by showing me that not feeling the same way and taking the rejection in a good way, made me early on feel safe with rejecting someone. She never made me feel guilty, awkward or got angry with me she just thanked me for taking the time to talk to her in a respectful way. Looking back as an adult, I feel proud of how we both showed up in that situation. Not once back then and now as an adult have I met a guy/man that expressed in a neutral and safe way they were ok with not having their emotions reciprocated. The guys/men all felt a need to insult me after my rejection and some refused to leave me alone and harassed me and tried to sabotage my romantic relationships and friendships and some spread rumours of how they had slept with me, some tried to force themselves on me physically. This girl in high school did nothing like that and nor has the women in my adulthood either after they have opened up about their feelings for me. The women all made me feel safe and some I have loevely friendships with. It’s tragic and scary how so many men refuse to take rejection but tons of women don’t act like you owe them anything they respect it and keeps it moving. I feel safe with women expressing they have a crush/sexual attraction to me even if I’m not into women myself, but with cis men who are heterosexual not so much in all honesty!
My point is, be you and simply having enotions isn’t an issue at all. It doesn’t matter if it’s a same sex attraction. In my mind it’s for everyone involved to show up in a good way. If you’re the one sharing your emotions or you are the ”object of someone’s attraction”. Kindness and respect for the other is key no matter if it’s reciprocated or not.
I absolutely love your view on this. ❤
Queer people being mad about YNTCD never made any sense to me, as a queer person. The song is explicit in its support, the video is explicit in its support, every single queer artist or creator in the video was credited and their socials were linked, giving them a huge platform boost, and she used the video to encourage support for a pro-LGBTQ+ law that would make life better for us. She literally did everything we say allies should do and somehow it was still wrong to some people, and it drives me insane.
As a person who figured out my bisexuality in my 30s and is married to a man and (despite having been in a serious relationship with a woman for a bit) still experiences quite a bit of queer-impostor-syndrome, I have *feelings* about people policing the "straight women kissing for attention" thing. Because... I did that. But I wasn't actually kissing another woman for the male attention - that was the plausible-deniability cover so that I could try something I was curious about. You just don't know what is going on in someone else's inner world - ever. You don't know what it is that they're trying to work through. And the more you police behavior, the harder it becomes for folks to figure things out about themselves.
Thank you so, so much for this
Personally, I of course enjoy queer readings of her music because it is my way way of projecting me personal experience on art that would otherwise be not relatable to me. I always found the speculation on who inspired which song and creating timelines and elaborate theories on what each lyric means to be invasive and just flat out disrespectful to art in general---and Taylor herself alluded to this in the reputation prologue: 'when this album comes out, gossip blogs will scour the lyrics for the men they can attribute to each song, as if the inspiration for music is as simple and basic as a paternity test'.
This doesn't affect the fact that there are many queer references in her art that I find more and more obvious---from flagging in the 'Lover' era to multiple hairpin references, use of the colour lavender or kissing of 'scarlet' lips (or the various closet imagery, for that matter). I acknowledge that these might just be coincidences, of course, and ultimately none of my business when it comes to muses etc.
I don't care about Taylor Swift's personal life and believe she is entitled to her privacy---I am here to enjoy her music and frankly wouldn't care if I never saw anything about her relationships again. (Is there a morbid curiosity somewhere in my mind about what happened between her and Karlie Kloss? Sure. Is it none of my business? Yes and I am aware of that and would never go on any platform and try to speculate about it, even the New York Times.) I also don't believe she is queerbaiting because real people can't queerbait. I also don't think she is leaving 'clues' about her love life in her lyrics so that people figure it out because that seems like too much work for a questionable outcome, why would she compromise the integrity of her own art so that some people get gossip that she doesn't like anyways?
What makes me feel uneasy is that those feel like my community's symbols, and seeing someone use them feels like they are inserting themselves into a place that wasn't made for them. That Onion headline summed it up best---why claim that 'gay pride makes you you' if it's not your pride? It feels performative and invasive---as if she was let into a space as an ally and then went on to make herself the centre of attention. Even the mentioned bi-coloured 'proud' bracelet---I am sure her wardrobe is heavily regulated, wouldn't you try to avoid obvious flagging in order to not use symbols that don't belong to you? If you are an influential person with a platform and you want to be an ally, you should uplift queer voices and share resources (both of which she has successfully done, to be fair to her, and I am grateful for that), not make gay pride a part of your personality.
Beautifully articulated Jessica!! Well said!
I really enjoyed listening to your thoughts about this. As a queer human, I find it so odd/rude to state that Taylor is clearly gay because XYZ. If she hasn't come out and told everybody, then it isn't our business, she is a human being first and a celebrity second and nobody is entitled to that information. If Taylor says she is straight, then she is and it isn't queer baiting for her to say otherwise.
I thoroughly enjoyed this!!!
Great video, love your content!
I am
so jealous of your bangs
Excellent video as always !
Thank you so much for talking about this, people have forced celebrities out of the closet with these excuses like Kit Connor
it's like that one tumblr post says "why are you hanging all of your queer hopes on Taylor Swift when there are so many other famous and out queer ladies out there?" or smth like this. Like, I get wishing that so and so was gay because "wouldn't that be cool if this artist i love so much had this in common with me??" but the minute that this kind of discussion leaves your fandom and your little corner of the internet and becomes a mainstream discussion that actually gets to The Person being discussed about, that's when you should see that something is not right about those types of speculation at all.
Other femslash ships that definitely were pretty strong throughout my younger days online: Marceline/Bubblegum (adventure time), Cosima/Delphine (orphan black), Korra/asami (legend of korra), ruby/sapphire (Steven universe), catra/adora (she-ra), and one that was really big when I was in high school was carmilla/Laura from the carmilla webseries! Definitely not trying to say that the guy slash pairings aren’t more popular, but wanted to show these some love! Really wanna rewatch some of these
There may never be a more queer-baiting show than BBC's Merlin (and the history behind why is interesting, the shows creators have apparently said that they actually wanted it to be gay, and that "magic" can be read as being gay). And I, a queer, love it more than anything!
I'm not entirely sure that's accurate. They had no idea or intent about Arthur and Merlin's relationship or the magic/queer metaphor when they started the show (you can find audio of someone bringing up the idea of Merthur to the actors after season one aired and they're so caught off guard they laugh in (harmless) disbelief). I think one writer said he wanted it to be gay, not everyone. To the show's credit, when they were made aware of Merthur and the magic metaphor they were very much cool with it and didn't flinch while continuing to portray Arthur and Merlin as close and devoted friends. For a show that aired from 2008 to 2012 that was a pretty big deal.
@@missmusic4951 That's why I said apparently. I remember both reading about and watching an interview where the queer metaphor is discussed by creators of the show, but couldn't be certain I was remembering 100% correctly. I'm glad they went in the direction they did, and I'm glad people were still able to read it in a queer way. I personally think Morgana's witch (lesbian) hovel (cottage) in the woods is goals quite frankly!
Omg, I just recently wrote a paper for a Media Studies course at uni about this!! 😂 So happy to hear a similar opinion ❤❤
Thank you for making this video! I have been a “gaylor” fan since 2016 and am a lesbian. It started when I realized that I could listen to her music and it felt applicable to my romantic life in the way most popular music didn’t. The Gaylor community then felt like a few dozen lesbian fans with anonymous blogs exchanging different interpretations of her lyrics and relating to one another. We would do polls of how many of us there were- the highest I ever saw was a couple thousand. It’s been so strange to see it blow up in this way. No matter ever really happened it’s so strange to write about this in a mainstream way to me. No one should ever be pressured to come out- the point was never to put her. It was a lens through which to appreciate her art and feel seen as gay women. It’s really become… something else.
Nice set up today, love all the purple.
'You don't have to agree with me but have you ever seen a toga?'
Having worn one, yes, I have. They're incredibly unconfortable and if you don't have pins to keep it in place (and pins aren't allowed) you have to sit in a very specific postition the whole time hoping someone doesn't undress you by accident. Not fun
Thank you for this. I am a huge Swiftie, but I'd missed the Gaylor stuff. I knew she was an ally and had female friends. The concept that people are mad cuz she's "just" an ally is... a thing. And that Celebs are allowed to have their own sexuality and discover it along the way. And to evolve. I became part of the queer community as a full grown adult women (40+) and so had never considered my hugs with women as a potential landmine. And now... now I have worry that men will think I'm trying to lesbo their wivse or that the women I hug might think I'm hitting on them. Ugh.