Dunkirk 70mm Rigoletto with two projectors and change-over between them
Vložit
- čas přidán 10. 09. 2017
- One evening in the projector room at the cinema Rigoletto, Stockholm Sweden.
Where we show Dunkirk with two projectors, the Philips DP70.
Dunkirk consists of 5 film wheels. During the show we will switch projector 4 times. This was how they showed films from the 1920s to the 1970s and 1980s. Then came the atomization. It's very exciting to show this movie (and upcoming) in this classical view with two projectors.
What I understand, it's not common for two projectors to remain in the projector room. It is only a single projector left at best. - Věda a technologie
I still for the life of me can't understand how there's NO gap, not even a frame or anything. I'm endlessly amazed at the craft of projectionists.
There is usually a fade to black both sides of the change over
ive been at theaters where the change-over was obvious ... these were 35mm movies, though
@@manymany4879 Probably because the arcs were not matched before changeover, leading to a discernable change in image. The films are edited to allow for changeover between reels (actually spools), with an appropriate overlap in action, and usually with a shot change. The start mark is (SMPTE standard) 12 feet (8 seconds) from start of picture, with last number 2 and then 2 feet of black before start of picture. The action is designed to resume at about 2 feet into the picture. The outgoing start cue is 12 feet from the designated changeover point, and there is another two seconds of picture after that. it is all in the SMP(T)E standard practice. Most projections start at the 8 mark to allow some time for the incoming machine to get up to speed. With a new print and good reflexes, I once (to the chief projectionists horror) put start in the gate and got through the changeover without a black frame. (I also one tried starting the incoming machine at 8 without the arc struck so at the first cue dot, 8 seconds to start the machine, strike the arc, set and stabilise it just in time for the changeover cue - but that's another story.). The machines were Gaumont Kalee 21s, kept in pretty good condition. Can't have that sort of fun with digital machines ....
During the summer months, I have shows in my backyard on a large permanent screen and show feature length movies on 16MM using 2 projectors. It's on a much smaller scale, but there is nothing more satisfying than making reel changes seamlessly where people don't notice.
When can I come to your backyard this summer sounds like a fun time hahahahaha
It's the kind of job where if you've done it right, nobody should be sure you've done anything at all.
Most aspects of jobs involving service are like that. From cleaners to politicians. You only notice (i.e. complain) when something is amiss.
I agree I used to run 35mm, and it's done right no one see it ;)
@@johnh10000 But that was it was all about was it not - presentation that nobody but you got pleasure out of getting it right. The tabs, the masking, the lighting, the non-sync and more.
@@jeremywilcox I recall when I was in my teens ( I'm 54 now) I recall seeking out, our projectionist, in the Odeon Weston Super Mare, (I had previously visited the projection boxes, so knew most of the staff) to compliment him, on the steady picture. Odeon 1 Westrix duel gauge, I think had always had an issue with the frame bouncing up and down.
@@johnh10000 A bit late finding your reply but we had faram bounce on thr Phillips FP20's that I eventually traced to the racking gear assy - a bit close as we had to start the show with me still refitting the 2nd mec!!
Projected 70mm and 35mm magnetic on two projector system from 1978 to 1991 on Fedi 11. When the show closed I moved on to a triple screen and showed 70mm on a Phillips DP75 and platter. Great days, miss them.
That's a job of passion.
This video provides a useful demonstration on starting the next reel and shows why cue marks are useful.
Loving films as a child I began to piece together what the dot in the top right corner of the film represented and would often look back at the windows to see the switch. I was very young like 5 or 6 and mentioned it to the adults who never noticed it. I explained that's why there are two windows at the back of the theatre. I really do hope film comes back again. Just like Albums have, I hope the same for film. Thanks for this, I am finding myself watching many of these video's and finding both enjoyable, magical and relaxing. - Toronto, Ontario.
I'm ex cinema projectionist I absolutely adore DP70 projectors they are like a Rolls Royce this projectionist doing a fantastic job sod the gloves as long you're handling the film by it's leaders
sir I saw 8 in the gate, but not an indication of it take 8 to spin up the machine.. I assume duel 35/70
@@johnh10000 It should be START in the gate.
1977 i vent to Rigoletto, the movie was
Star Wars, still remember it like yesterday!!! Its one of the last old classic movie-theatre left in Stockholm.
So gratifying to see a professional projectionist with all those mad switches etc and clutter behind the scenes working his magic to the audience with great tabs ( curtains and lighting) and checking the focus and framing on the changeovers..I miss it !!
Thanks . I have been part time projectionist since 1971. I still have the opportunity to be part of this. When a 70mm copy appears in our theatre. It is true that it is a certain feeling to be able to run an analog performance completely manually. So one wonders if there will be any more 70mm copies for our cinema in the future.
@@utjtrain1376 Oppenheimer?
@@bagnome We run OPPENHEIMER 70mm at Rigoletto Stockholm, so far everything has worked perfectly. I will post a video soon.
Man, seeing 2 more DP70s out there with the mag heads still in them running DTS with the reader mounted where the fire rollers used to be makes me so happy. Exactly how ours are set up. For what its worth, we thread using the constant motion for the mag head, as well as the tension roller in it (as an idler) before dropping down to the 1st constant motion for 35mm optical, it better distributes load between the sprockets.
Regrettably I erased by mistake an extensive comment that I wrote some minutes ago, so I must write it again...
At first at all, congratulations for the admirable work you're doing about preservation of true film projection.
I haven't had any experience about 70mm projection, but yes about 35mm.
We have here in my city one of the last theatres even today capables of screening 35mm film that still are in Spain. Its projection booth is equipped with two Spanish-made Ossa VI C machines fitted with original X-2500 80 Amp Xenon lamphouses and also original Ossa 708 all-transistor amplifiers rewired by me for stereo. I spent over 4 years there learning and practicing with the yet retired old projectionist who teached me all about film projection and the secrets of the booth. After some years of inactivity I had the chance of saving all the machinery from being dismantled, so I feel I'm very fortunate of being the official projectionist or operator of that booth, in charge also of all tasks of regular mechanic, electric and electonic maintenance of the projectors themselves and their associated equipment (rectifiers, amplifiers, long-playing device) during the time of the year in wich we have not public activity, as well as when there are official screenings i'm the responsible for preparation and assembling of films, and of course hanling the projectors, loading and screening the pictures. I'm very proud of have had the chance of doing this work because is some that I've been dreaming during decades with.
We do a major film screening event in the year, the "Miércoles de Cine en 35mm" (Wednesdays of Movies in 35mm) as well as some other "alone" screening of any film when we have the chance of get it, not so frequently as I would like because the price of contracting and renting a 35mm print from distributors, not so much by the format itself but mainly for public exhibition rights, but at least the theatre still being one of the last in wich it can be projected true cinema today.
The next appointment, the 3rd edition o that event, will be in October 9, 16 and 23 at 20'00 hours at the "Teatro Municipal Quijano" in Ciudad Real, Spain. The entrance to all the screenings wil be free as is usual, since this theater is owned by the municipality and offers that as a citizen's service.
If you want to see what we are doing here and our projection booth and machines, please visit my channel and watch the videos in the playlist "Cinema 35mm".
Again my best wishes for you and please, keep alive those "monsters" for many years.
Regards.
that sounds like you love and ae passionate about your job. I recall my days of 35mm opp
we had Philips DP70s in our cinema for the 20 years I worked there great machines
Thank you for demonstating how it should be done!
Kul och intressant! Tack för visningen!
Nice to see a pair of DP70's being used the way I used to - I see it's an optical print! Never was spoilt with a power rewinder though! Stil used carbon arcs so always a little busier than this.
Nice projector 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I was at this cinema while vacationing in Sweden; I went to the midnight premiere of Age of Ultron! It was fantastic
It's one of those dream jobs you have as a kid. At least it was for me.
Does anyone even have to be in the booth with digital projectors? I'd imagine it's something along the lines of setting up a playlist and then hitting play...
yes, same as would you get on a flight without a pilot?
@@johnh10000 I think operating a digital projector is somewhat simpler than piloting an aircraft...
I'm not even "hitting play". My only reason to visit the booth is to turn on the cd-player... No charm, no craftmanship any more, just easy...
Dollar Princess - Rolls Royce. The one and only real film projector. How I miss them. I had a pair of those running from 1974 to 2012, but had to let them go, when digital should in, due to lack of space. The darkest day in my life ! Thank You for sharing this video. If You can't stand to watch a grown man cry - look the other way ! UPDATE, june 2020: One of my DP70 projectors is on it's way back home - Due to space trouble around the digital projector, this time in a single projector installation with Kinoton platter - but better than none ! Now, I'm crying again - but this time for joy !
Wow! It is probably very hot in there! I had the opportunity (40 years ago now) to work with two DP70's but 35 mm was my largest. Although they were capable for 70 mm. With 2 machines it was hot so I can imagine airco is a must here! Great picture!!
Very nice, wish more movies would get released in 70mm and more theaters still had film projectors. Sadly digital has killed the magic of the theater experience which film provided.
we are almost colleagues and both work with the same projectors
Fascinating.
ah this is not the IMAX 70mm version. but absolutely beautiful watching those moving pictures. it is unreal. like a magic.
same idea imax is sidwards
FYI change-over is the jargon used. Thank you for this nice video.
You are absolutely right about this. Did not think of this then, when I wrote it.
As you may then understand, English is not my mother tongue. But think it is
worth trying in English so that everyone who is interested can understand this.
Glad you liked this short film.
Classic Two film projectors to show a motion picture, a real feeling to be in a projection room of a cinema hall. As observed from similar clips that film projection required considerable skills, accurate timings, expertise and patience. With advent of digital systems this REEL magic is gone, there is only one DLP video projector with some computer attachments that does most of the work /controlling.
Beautiful!
What has happen to craftsmanship these days. Anything mechanical from the past, are works of art.
Interesting to see you use the "S" wind like we did in the US. I ran 70mm on DP70s (Norelco AAII in the US) and Century JJs. By far the DP70 was the best.
Here in the UK we use both and I have seen a few mistakes over the years.
With 35'mm it was immediately obvious, but with 70'mm the only obvious part was the 70% drop in sound, due to reading the magnetic tracks through the film. People just rushed to the amplifiers, suspecting a pre-amplifier power loss.
On one occasion, they shut down and refunded the customers money before they worked it out.
When showing undertitles on the digital projector -- how do You avoid stray light, destroying the contrast in picture ?
Good question, Since we started with these new 70mm screening that started with Tarantino's H8. We have used a bit cardboard in the projection window, and cut out a small rectangle so only the text reaches the screen. In this case, the rest of the image is unaffected by light from the digital projector.
I haven't seen the opening curtains in a theater since the eighties, no all screens are just open all time.
think thy should return
I heard from a theatre owner that curtain opening and closing is considered wasted "audience attention time" that could have been used for showing revenue making ads. Though sad it makes sense I guess.
He gives the thumbs up, yes!
Still in the age of film projection,when the world has moved forward to digital projectors
these projectors looks like they are from the world war times hehehehe..... man a projectionist job is never easy have to get everything going right....great job.....
PHILIPS DP 70 was manufactored in Holland 1955-1966, and received an Oscar for best design ! Quite a lot of them are still running, when a distributor is willing to spend the money for prints. And they're running excellent today, up to 66 years from build.
U very nice sumart work
In USSR start mark was a smaller and on left part of frame two black points one over one.
В СССР сигнальные точки располагались с левой стороны кадра одна над другой и меньше, чем было здесь. Размер был такой же, как на 35 мм пленке. А здесь "точка" огромная... (Похоже оптическая печать с 35 мм Panavision негатива.)
Причем в СССР был только первый сигнал за 7 секунд до переключения.
I repaired a dp75 on the q.e.2, exciter lamp trouble.
Good job man
I was projectionist for many years. I worked on Century 35/70, Cinemeccanica Victoria X, and many other projectors. I was lacing the film in such a way that the upper reel always rotated clockwise with the emulsion side was towards the gate. When watching on CZcams, I see almost all places in the USA, the upper reel rotates anti-clockwise. My question is what direction of film copy is laced in the gate, emulsion toward the gate or shiny side toward the gate. I was working in Israel for 20 years. Thanks for your kind input.
Ilike this video
I saw it in 70mm it was anaming and the sound was outstanding I always loved the old DTS system and on CD 's wow that is the system I grew up watching movies with it was so nice to hear it again I will always pit it over pcm compressed or not something about the way it is encoded and it's alway supper loud just they was I like it modern movies on DCI are always so low in the sound department compared to the old school DTS and 70mm If I could I would see them all like this nothing touches it I also like how you have curtains no one has them any more and masking when needed presentation is gone from modern movie
It is such a shame that greedy owners have killed the cinema by removing staff and killing all aspects of presentation. This has the knock on effect of digital equipment being poorly maintained, breaking down and only being adjusted when members of the audience complain.
It is a sad situation.
DTS should have been the future of the cinema over the last 2 decades, but it also was killed. Its original concept was for the optical soundtrack on the film to be replaced by a time code track. This would have allowed all sound to come from CDs in the DTS unit.
The 3 major advantages were that multi channel sound could be run without the highly complex Dolby processors. A new CD could be supplied every time that the film was transferred and would have avoided damaged / dirty optical soundtracks necessitating the whole print to being scrapped. The third advantage was that all prints would have been international, just by changing the CD.
If all this had happened, I have little doubt that both Dolby and Kodak would have gone bankrupt. Between them, they killed DTS instead, leaving them with subtitles and audio description as a few crumbs on their plate.
I agree with the curtains opening, some old movie theatres still have them (maybe some independently owned and operated) but going to see a show and having the curtains open when the movie started was what made the movie. As a kid, I was hoping that the curtains wouldn’t already be opened whenever I stepped into the room. Hopefully most understand where I’m coming from with that. If not, you must not understand a theatrical performance, period!
Josh DTS audio is compressed, as are Dolby Digital and SDDS, I’m not sure about the short-lived CDS system. CM audio on digital cinema is uncompressed.
@@srfurley yea we know its compressed better operators were around for DTS to set it up so it always sounded better then DCI
cool vid
Nice video
wonderful sets
På Bio Pony i Dalsbruk (Södra Finland) hade de ännu i slutet av -70talet två projektorer. Kolstavslampor belyste filmen. Senare byttes belysningen i ena projektorn ut till Xenon och samtidigt kom möjligheten att köra hela helaftonfilmer på en enda rulle. Ursprungsmaskinerna torde vara från 1960- eventuellt -50 talet.
thank you for this. i salute anyone that can run 70mm. I run 35mm here at home and with DTS. I did not get to see your audio rack there. I saw a remote and it looks like it might be a CP65. I was also curious to see what DTS player you were using.
We use DTS XD10 and Dolby 750. You can see these in Oppenheimer from the engine room on Rigoletto, 4 min 56 sec into the film. link below
czcams.com/video/v0MG3q1M9ts/video.html
Punctuation: it matters.
Som liten var jag ibland uppe i maskinrummet till Bio-Pony här i Dalsbruk. På den tiden fanns där två projektorer med bågljuslampor. På 90-talet kom en projektor som klarade av en helaftonfilm utan omladdning. Den har dessutom xenon lampa. H. Stig Österberg från Dalsbruk i Finland.
Kul Sitg. Ja det där lilla rummet längst bak. Väggen med ett antal små gluggar där ljuset kom ifrån har alltid fascinerat mig som barn och det har hållit isig. Började köra 71 också med 2 projektorer med bågljus. Det var kul så länge det varade fram till digitaliaeringen. Men det har varit kul att få vara med på denna 70mm resa.
@@utjtrain1376 Om jag inte misstar mig. Den första biofilmen jag såg på Bio-Pony i Dalsbruk var "Vi på Saltkråkan". Det var en föga angenäm upplevelse. Kom ut ur salongen med ett tuggummi, stort som en tumme inklätat i håret. Det blev att ta till sax för att bli av med otyget. Jag gav trots det inte upp mitt intresse för film. Favoriterna var 50-talets finska komedier. En del av dessa finns på CZcams. Sök "Pekka Puupää ja Pätkä" (Kalle Träskalle och Stumpen).
I didn't realise they still produced on 70mm then other than Imax version?
What are the lamphouses on the DP70's and what bulb are you using?
The lamps, You see in this video are german Kinotons - the shown model range from 3.000 to 4.000 watt horizontal. Mine are the smaller 2.000 watt, also on DP70 - very fine lamps.
love
Can you fit a film platter to these types of projectors, so as to automate it? Is that possible with 70 mm?
It is possible to insert a plate system for 70mm. but it will take up space. We would probably throw out a DP 70 in that case. We will definitely not do this. Do not think that we have had such a system in Sweden in previous years. We had a plate system when we showed 35mm film, before it was digitized.
I'd liked to see the sound head the lamp and its housing....
You get a brief glimpse of the 35mm optical soundhead from 7:25
70mm film carried 6 magnetic soundtracks, for 5 across the stage and 1 in the ceiling.
The film in the video was rare, it had no soundtracks, but a time code to control the DTS system. This allowed the film to be presented in any recorded language and subtitles added.
Foreign film laboratories did everything possible to discredit DTS, since it would have allowed films to transfer from other countries and would send them bankrupt.
Interesting to see 70mm, never projected that myself, only 35mm anamorphic. Those reels don't look big enough to hold a feature film on 5 reels. 35mm used to be 12 mins a reel didn't it? :-) Thanks for that.
When 35mm film was printed on cellulose nitrate, the maximum length (for safety reasons) was 1000-ft. Theoretically 11 minutes, the actual time was 8 to 10 with the leaders, tails and considering that each reel had to start and stop on a scene change.
When cellulose acetate was introduced in the early 1950s, cinema rolls were increases to 2000 ft and this is still how film is delivered to the cinema to this day.
When 70mm was introduced 4000-ft became the standard and on the early films the run time was about 24 minutes at 30-fps.
However 70mm was soon changed to 24fps, because the 30fps negative could not be reduced to print on 35mm, so the whole film had to be shot twice on the set, whereas a 24fps 70mm negative could be used to print a 35mm internegative. This meant that a 70mm roll time increased to 28 minutes.
This then enabled cinemas with 70mm equipment to double up their 35mm films to around 38 minutes.
The 40 minute limit was mainly set by the maximum time that the lamp could run before replacing the carbon electrode rods.
Thank you for that. Time dims the details! :-)
wilsjane I love when people get into depth with the film rate and the reels that accompany them. Thanks for the perspective and input for someone like myself that is a cinephile
Good
So if you switch between the projectors, how do you time it right so one frame fits onto each other? A frame is only a few milliseconds, so if you started it a few frames late it would show, wouldn't it?
You thread with the leader set at a predetermined point before the picture. When you see the first cue you start the incoming projector and open the lamp dowser. When the second cue appears you activate the changeover. If you do it right no one notices. Having done it thousands of times, its really quite routine for an experienced projectionist.
@@stuffnva Ok, but if a person needs a few hundred milliseconds to notice a car in front braking, then how do you start the 2nd projector on the first cue on the right frame when one frame is only 41ms?
@@florichi There is actually some film after the last cue to allow for reaction time. The amount depends on the format but its typically about 3/4 of a second.
@@florichi One frame is 1/24 of a second, and the "noone will notice"-margin is somewhat bigger, than You're talking about, I think. But of course, any old projectionist does this, whitout You missing anything. And as stuffnva says: there are eighteen frames from last dot to black. Plenty of time.
Why do you use multiple projector instead of just one plater?
As I wrote in the introduction. When the installation of the digital projectors was done, the plates were thrown out and we kept both DP70 projectors. The plates took up more space than the two projectors. After the digital introduction came, it would turn out that 70 / 35mm films would not be run for a long time, but only selected titles have been shown. So it is fantastic to have a cinema with an engine room that has both two DP70 projectors but also two Barco 4k projectors. As a projectionist, being able to show a film and switch between these two projectors is a wonderful opportunity. But now in these Corona times, the cinema has been closed for almost 10 months, so the question is whether it will be possible to open it sometime in the spring of 2021. Can only hope, but money rules, and number of cinema visitors, but we hope.
@@utjtrain1376 Thank you for the response,
It's the same in Germany.
I hope you can open soon and dont have to close..
why use a digital projector to run subtitles but use film? why not do the whole thing on digital
Dröm Jobbet!
Självklart är det så, hoppas bara Coronan inte tar död på de biografer som har möjlighet att köra dessa analoga rullar i fortsättningen. Även om det för gemene man inte är så stor skillnad mellan 4K digital eller Joker 4k lasrad 70mm kopia i salongen. Men för oss lyckliga som får jobba med dessa rullar är det helt fantastiskt, så här i slutskedet av den analoga epoken. Särskilt här på Rigoletto med två DP70 kärror och skifta mellan dessa. OK Dunkirk var ju Filmad i 70mm 5p 0ch 15p så där var ju upplösningen klart mycket bättre.
@@utjtrain1376 Exact mina tankar =), Jag tvekar starkt på att "äkta vara" kommer att dö ut, jag är ung 30åring och jobbar med att sätta upp duckar och projjar fast år företag i deras konferens rum, och mer och mer blev jag intresse indragen i allt detta, dels för att jag är en Audiofil och säger att LP-skivor kommer slå digitalt i alla dagar (eller tills vi har lagrings media som är stor som en plån bok men rymmer 50-100 Terrabyte då kan man titta på hur man får ut allt i rätt läs hastighet) Crestron är kända för sina 8K system som får bild genom en nätverks sladd på steroider (Cat8) allt detta för det måste finnas en KBps på ca 4.5Gb i seckunden.. Så där stryps det digitala redan p.g.a sladd... som är snabbare än fiber.. meningslöst.. Analog i alla dagar (Även min förstärkare är en Harman/Kardon 730 TwinPowerd från 70 talet för det analoga förstärkare ger mer kraft och var byggda för 16ohm. så driva med dagens 4-8ohm standard H-talare ger mycket mer än vad man fick förr.)
Oj långt det blev. men om du vill ha något att lära är det bara att göra fler filmer, eller så flyttar jag upp till sthlm från Kalmar.
Jag älskar denna kunskap inom Audio&Video tech som väldigt få uppskattar eller respekterar *tippar hatten*
Vacancy job
Saat ini masih ada pak
We need Tenet please
I would also like to be able to show it. But due to the pandemic that summer when Tenet was released, our cinema Rigolett was closed. Which was very sad for us who wanted to work with Tenet as a 70mm film.
How old IS this video??? 2017??? 70mm film was first used in the late 70s along with continuous -film platter systems that required only a single projector per auditorium. With that, a single film could be played in multiple auditoriums simply by threading the film thru multiple projectors. All of that reduced tha amount of manual labor required in the projection booth, reducing the number of projectionists required from 1 per auditorium to one for the entire multiplex! Not to mention (but I will) the reduced wear and tear on the film prints (especially the more expensive 70mm films).So why hasn't this theater been upgraded?
But 70 mm is IMAX format
What You see in in this video, is the original 70mm format. IMAX 70mm is running horisontal, with an even bigger picture on the film.
I.m cinema operating
Move
480p???? Have you heard of HD or maybe even 4k? Considering the subject matter I'd expect you to shoot in a higher resolution.
Please to use cotton gloves when film handling!
This is not necessary, the part of the film containing the movie is never handled. It has clear leader film on both ends, this is handled when threading.
Easy now ! Film handling in this video is suberb. No gloves needed, when a skilled pro is running films.