RV tech goes UNDERCOVER to review 2023 Airstream RVs
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- čas přidán 12. 01. 2024
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In today's video, I'll be reviewing the following 3 Airstream travel trailers to answer the question everyone wants to know- is Airstream quality or overpriced?
1) 2023 Airstream - Bambi - 16RB - 16' 1" - Avg. Retail $56,950 - Floorplan - www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2023-a...
2) 2023 Airstream - Flying Cloud - 25FB - 25' 11" - Avg. Retail $106,000 - Floorplan - www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2023-a...
3) 2023 Airstream - Basecamp - 20 - 20' 2" - Avg. Retail $52,250 - Floorplan - www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2023-a...
Rigor Scale Changes: I removed furnaces from the scale because there are only two brands and they are both equally reliable. I then gave 10 points to cabinets and 10 points to countertops instead of having them as a combined category.
What you’re doing is invaluable. There are a lot of popular “RV review” channels out there but, in reality, they’re just sales tools for specific RV dealers so the ‘reviewers’ can’t be 100% honest. Keep up the good work!
Thanks you! I really hope we see some positive changes in the quality of RVs as people start demanding better built campers. The fact that the tour guide at Grand Design has been pestered with questions about the plumbing makes me happy! It will be all the viewers who really make a difference, but I'm happy to educate :)
@@undercoverrvtech Something I'd like to see as a fairly new full-timer is a comparison of some of the popular full time brands like Montana, Jayco North Point/Pinnacle, and Arctic Fox. We're leaning heavily toward getting a Brinkley but every time I tell an old-timer in the park that, they go, "Oh, no, you don't want that. What you want is a Jayco!"
@@DirtWireTV I have a Jayo travel trailer review coming out very soon. I also have lots of other Jayco and Montana's in the pipeline. I haven't gotten my hands on an Arctic Fox (yet) but it's top of my list for season 2. So stay tuned!
Wow thank you for your honesty! I had no idea about the flying cloud ☁️
There is a little bit of nuance with the front end separation issue. Around 2021-22 the factory began adding support brackets to stave off front end separation. Also, owners who install a receiver to the rear of the trailer to haul things like bicycles (nowadays usually heavy-ass e-bikes), scraping the rear end on inclines, or having too much weight distribution can all cause front end separation. It might be difficult to avoid the "front compartment models" because the front bed twin floorplan has become extremely popular, and besides, for reason I mentioned front end separation can occur on any model including the ones without the front compartment.
Bit of a reality check on maintenance demand, etc.: The Airstream manual states, "We recommend washing your Airstream *about every four weeks* and waxing with Walbernize Super Seal, or high quality clear coat-safe wax, in the spring and fall. In coastal and industrial areas, cleaning and waxing should be done more frequently." It goes on to say that the seams *do* need to be inspected and re-sealed annually. I have four not-so-lovely memories in Airstreams in childhood: 1) Baseballs accidentally hitting one of the curved rear aluminum panels, especially, creating small dents, and your grandfather is ready to cry because lots of things do this that would not dent a typical RV and they are wildly expensive to get out; 2) Sub-freezing night in the Rockies after Grandma cooked a hot dinner. Even with ventilation going, aluminum transmits temperature worse than almost any other material and the main entry door would be frozen to its frame in the morning, requiring a hair dryer or shoulder fatigue to get it open; 3) On that same kind of morning, if temperatures got into the teens or lower (F), some of the interior rivets would form frost on them and, when melting later, would leave little tracks of water / staining trailing below them; 4) They're good glampers, not very good at camping away from hook-ups. The tank capacities were too small for us to be out-and-away anywhere for long, which is part of the light-payload design / ratings. I would personally never buy one at their typical prices. There's a big charge for aesthetics and brand name built in, neither of which are priorities for me.
Not all Airstream Flying Clouds have the front cargo compartment (where almost all the frame issues occur), so discounting the entire line can be misleading.
Great information! Thanks for putting this together.
Glad you found it helpful! Thanks for watching!
Thank you Arthur great video.
Thank you Artur! Great video.
Glad you liked it!
You have to pay for quality. It does not come cheap. The country is full of cheap rubber roofed campers that fall apart sitting in people's driveways. You will not see a stream do that.
Great and Honest Information.
This is interesting to see that Airstream fit and finish has really come up in quality. I was going to buy a 25 foot airstream in 2000 till I started looking at the fit and finish. The quality was not there for $35k Airstream. The sales person also told me it was a 4 seasons RV. I asked her how it was 4 seasons RV when the water connection line was a 6 inch exposed copper line?
What saleswoman was that?
There are strange claims like that made about them by quite a few people online. Anyone who has grown up with them and gotten into serious cold would never label them that way. Even aside from plumbing protection, aluminum has terrible thermal transmissivity, and the laws of physics just don’t take “no” for an answer. Some poor guy got caught up in the fanciful claims about this on one of the Airstream owners’ forums and tried to overwinter in Alaska based on that. I’m not sure he even lasted a month-it wasn’t even getting down to 0°F yet. Full-hookup campgrounds in Arizona or Florida, etc., with their big air conditioners is their ideal application and as extreme-climate capable as they get.
Thank you for the honest review we were thinking about getting the flying cloud and saw/read so many comments about the Frontend separation that we got second thoughts. the fact that you repair RV's gives me the confidence to continue looking until I find the right one.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. I'm learning more every new video.
Awesome, thank you!
Just discovered your channel and subscribed! Your timing is perfect.
Glad to help!
Thank you for an honest review.
Great Job !
Arthur is one heck of a guy. Thanks Arthur.
This was a huge help to us as we are looking at the 20x base camp. That cargo capacity means if we change the bed out for something heavier and travel with water alot of stuff will have to go in our truck. =(
good to know about the separation
I am interested in the Bambi model and this information was an eye opener. Thanks for this video.
Thanks Arthur
Nice fair review.
Great reviews!
Glad you like them!
My Grand Design had a water leak just outside the window!! Thank you for this video!!
Love these videos 👍🏻🍻
Thanks! Glad you like them!
Thanks for the info. We had considered an Airstream but really wanted the slide outs.
Me too, I've only ever had RVs with slideouts
Slide outs are: Cold, Leak, Break & noisy. There is a reason Airstreams don't have them and long time RVers migrate to Airstreams.
Appreciate your review. Would really like to see a review of DRV Mobil suites and Forest River Riverstone Legacy. What is your thought on the Moryde independent suspension system
Keep up the great work!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video :)
Thanks for the video. In trailers 2023 and forward Airstream resolved the front end separation issue by adding additional support two models with front cargo areas.
Glad you’re back it’s been to long
Thanks! Glad to be back! I was working hard on getting this new app/database/shopping course created. I can't review all the RVs myself, but I want to empower all my viewers to be able to shop smart
Good video. Always an air streamer here . On my 2nd one now (upgraded from 17ft Sport to a 22ft Bambi FB) and not had any issues with either (camp often) . The Airstreams definitely hold their resale value compared to ANY of the regular trailers .
I'll be buying your course tomorrow; wallet is in my truck and it's 2am I ain't going outside to get it right now. Even though I have 10 years of RVing experience, very handy and a smart shopper who dives deep into specs and quality. I've been researching our next camper for 5 years or more. Watched GD go downhill, walked through numerous Alliances a couple years ago that had horrible quality issues I just can't unsee, Brinkley's are ok but IMHO too many people buying into the hype and the shiny object there. We're pretty dead set on a Flagstaff 371RK, generally speaking an all-around pretty solid unit from what I can see online, in person, factory tours etc. Definitely interested in seeing if you have any other helpful information in the course on flagstaff or rockwood. Pretty smart idea and unique channel, good for you. Hope you crush it man!
Great job
Thanks!
Please do a review on InTech trailers. Horizon, Dawn and Magnolia.
Have you ever done one of these new inspections on a Northwood or Outdoor trailer? I'm curious how they stack up to an Airstream.
Look at the pause please I really like them and was interested in getting one.
I found the wiring in our Classic 30 to be an absolute rats nest. The wiring in our Leisure Travel Van is loomed and attached to walls. Much higher quality build.
Please review ATC RVs
Please review the Heartland Big Country 3705fb 5th wheel. Thank you
Regarding the Airstream’s suspension it was implied that the suspension may not be high quality because the CCC is lower than comparable trailers. Is it possible that the empty vehicle weight is greater because of the construction materials (aluminum vs fiberglass) thereby cutting into your carrying capacity? I would like to hear your opinion of the actual suspension. Aside from that there is so little storage space on an Airstream it might be difficult to overload it anyway.
We used to travel in a bus, so that’s what the airstream reminds me of. We like airstreams, but I just don’t fit our style of camping, We need more room.
The kitchen drawers in my airstream globetrotter got some water and swell and started to crumble
All I know from my Airstream 23FB is that they cut corners to save money. My foot when through the floor one morning which revealed a bigger problem, I love cold weather camping, and assumed that any condensation would drain out, I thought of course Airstream would plan for that. Wrong. My unit (new units now use composite flooring) had plywood floor, which rotted out due to condensation from the windows causing mold and mildew. The tech told me that Airstream knew about this issue, but only installed mold/mildew resistant flooring at the entrance lip and shower lip, the most common warranty issues. What irked me was that the cost difference for kitchen bath mold/mildew resistant treated plywood was about $5 a sheet. I had a $25k repair, because Airstream decided to save about $50. Airstream KNEW some of their viewers would face major repairs, but only improved the entrance and shower areas to save $50. as those major repairs would occur AFFTER THE WARRANTY EXPIRED.
I love your videos but I have a question I have a 1997 fleetwood pace arrow I’m trying to find the windshields for it HElp with finding it
What are your thoughts on the Isotherm 12 volt refrigerators.
Glad to see that Airstream is using DEXTER running gear.
KYD just did a video on front-body separation. It looks like a lot of work
Outstanding
Thanks!
My dad had 2 Airstreams both 31'. '78 and a '79. The '79 finally a repair shop in '95 I forgot for what... But a non Airstream dealer repaired the problem... Other than that... My dad needed to stay away from BBQ pits (use your imagination )... But like we say in bikes If it has breast or tires maintenance will happen!! I'll look out for your next video on the 1/2 price RV.
Please review a Rockwood MiniLite !
I've added it to my list. Thanks for the request!
I like Airstream but after having a Jayco with no slide, I found it too narrow for me. I went to my next "perceived" level and bought a pre-REV Lance. I would like to see a video on the differences between leaf springs and torsion axles - something I don't understand.. Keep up the good videos - I didn't know that my propane/electric fridge shouldn't be turned on at 25F (-3C). :)
I’ve been following several Airstream Facebook pages, CZcams channels, and I’ve never heard of a frame issue with AS. This was a first for me.
Look at KYD's youtube post for this past week. They go through front end separation, cause and repair. We purchased a 2023 25'' twin International this past fall....I'm hoping AS has done some frame beefing on this year class. We won't be hanging bikes off the backend et cetera but did remodel converting the bench dinette area to recliners so did have some weight changes to the unit. We'll see I guess. As I understand it other brands do see front end issues also.
What is your opinion of the manufacturer "Forest River" Rockwood?
With regards to Airstream being overpriced, go look for a used one. You won't find a bargain. Do some math on the total cost of ownership over your expected camping experience, and if you can swing the initial price, it's probably cheaper than a conventional travel trailer that plummets in value over that same period. Some are holding 90% of their value after three years.
It depends. We buy used and find that by the time we're ready to sell our rv's we can sell it for quite a bit more than what we bought it for. If we took the time to paint them we could make a few thousand more off of them.
Sell mine 45 or 50fy book 12
I own an Airstream. I would like to know if they have in fact redesigned the frame attachment method to rectify the known issue of the front storage model. I own a 2022 23 Foot Globetrotter 23FBT, they no longer make the 23 Foot version. It does have the front storage locker. The 23 and less Footers are what is know as a narrow body Airstream. 25 Foot and up are Wide Body.
What airstream 25 ‘+ is the A grade ??
Glad I found this streamer. Cheers
26’ airstream $100,000.
26’ fema trailer brand new, but sat for a year $9,000. Easy choice for me who camps a few times a year.
Totally agree. See people who spend that much on an rv and never use it. Spent $139 k for my 28’er and did 6000 miles last year and will do over 11k this year and would never want to deal with the headaches I’d be facing with a 9k trailer after than many miles. Hurricane force winds every time I get on a freeway. Best let them sit.
For full timer what fifth wheel would you recommend, the best? Question quality.
The three things that keep me from buying an Airstream at this time are lack of storage, extremely tiny grey, black, and potable water tanks, and price. I'd accept the price being high if the other two were adequate, but they are laughable for anyone that dry camps. Side note: Having a toilet on a box pedestal is also very odd.
Odd, yes, but it allows more tank capacity above the deck for the black tank. Imagine where they would be capacity-wise without it! lol
Right before I watched your video I watched the video where Vinnie does a modification of the framework for a Flying Cloud. As the owner for a 27FBT Flying Cloud I a concerned.
I have a 2023 sandstorm 304 gslr are they any good?
Comment on Grand Design plumbing. They probably don’t see warranty claims because the dealer always claims they can’t find the leak, even when they’re repairing the damage caused by the leak.
On our brand new RV, they had to replace bathroom cabinets because of a leak but claimed the couldn’t find the source. I showed them videos and they refused to fix the plumbing. Our shower faucet plumbing has flooded our bedroom, bathroom sink faucet leaks, water heater plumbing leaks. We’ve had to fix every single location where there’s pex and flex hoses.
Wow ! That is a grand design?
you tube is full of gran design fails it s a crap brand
I'm sorry they did that to you. It's a common story sadly. People get mad in the comments that I fail any RV that's improperly plumbed, but it's because I've had to fix these connections for so many clients - all paying out of pocket because the manufacturer wanted to make an extra buck at their expense
I love the Mando shirt!
Thanks! I bought it just for the undercover reviews, but am also a huge Star Wars fan.
@@undercoverrvtech same! Mando is my favorite, too!
If only I had the budget for a New Horizon RV like the 2024 36RK3S triple axle, which is just about 38 feet in length. Unfortunately, the price tag can be well over 300 K.
Have you ever done a hard review of a Casita, Scamp, Oliver or Eclipse?
So, would it be safe to assume that you would view other full size Airstreams (Flying Cloud, International, Globe Trotter) that DON’T have the front storage bay favorably?
I need to now did you evaluate the Rockwood line of travel trailers, they say they are the best But are they?
I have a review of them coming out soon! Stay tuned!
Please review and score a 2024 Bigfoot travel trailer.
I've had conversations with friends and other campers with airstream, different model years. The feed back was overall positive, except for one, until we talk price/quality. None of them have felt that price was justified with value. The one guy had a model with a slide out, a model cancelled quickly by Airstream, who hated his. He said in winter the slide out was incredibly cold and couldn't keep unit warm.
You mentioned in this video that you were going "undercover" to examine, in an upcoming video, a travel trailer that many consider similar to the Airstream, but at half the cost. Let me guess which brand you're referring to. I have been researching the Intech brand since summer 2022. I've watched every CZcams walkthrough video multiple times, including two in-depth factory tour videos. I have reached out and spoken to factory reps in Nappanee, IN on several occasions but as yet have never actually been able to pull the drawers, open the cabinets, sit on the commode, stand in the shower stall, or crawl underneath, ya know, "kick the tires".
I went to the Gulf Coast RV Show in Mobile, AL last week, there were no Intech's, in fact to my surprise, none of the six dealers at the show including, Great American, Dads, Blue Compass, and Williams Family, all claimed to have never heard of Intech Travel Trailers. I am sooo interested in them, that next week I am going to the RV Supershow in Tampa, FL because the Intech rep in Nappanee, IN, promised to have all of their "Rover" models there on display. I'd love to hear your comments on Intech trailers if you can find one to review.
What do you like better? Avion or Airstream?
After watching your channel for a while now, I don't even think I want to buy a camper. It's so disappointing to learn how low the build quality is.
Wow, that's crazy about Grand design. We avoided Grand design because of other issues and the warranty only being a year. I'm glad they said what they said because now I'm never getting a grand design. Plumbing is big and you don't skimp on that.
I agree, plumbing is super important! I'm glad my viewers are bugging them about it
Our GD was pure junk! We used it 3 times in 2 years. The rest of the time it was at the factory or the dealer. I forced them to repurchase it from us.
We need more RV professional people like yourself to do more to get the industry to improve their quality.
Thanks for saying that! I hope manufactures listen and we see things improving. Thanks for watching!
do you have a recommendation brand and model for a relatively smaller fifth wheel that can fit at least 7 people?
Would ever consider reviewing Nucamp?
Sure! I'll add it to my list, thanks for the recommendation
Was looking at Grand Design, not any longer... Thank you Arthur.
You dodged a bullet. They are soooooo badly plumbed -all of them
Thank you. Do an ATC Toy Hauler review. Looking hard at them.
Including the cabinet material, ie plywood, what is your assessment of the wrap? I have plywood cabinets on a very high end and high rated RV, , however when wet, the wrap peeled off and totally ruined the cabinets
Do you recommend a model of couples trailer or are they all money pits?
Do you have a list of the RVs (make/model not the grade itself) in your graded database we could see? And is this grading system purchase able outside of the course?
I don't have a list, but that's a good idea. The list is growing every week as users add RVs as well. The course is needed for people to understand the questions asked in the app and how/why things are scored the way they are- so I don't sell the database/app without it
Damp climate cold weather camping can generate condensation inside the aluminum skin….
Which can cause damage.
T or F ?
Have you any on the other models like the international? Or globetrotter?
My grand design leaked after 1 week. I replaced all the hose to pex. I'm currently in progress to get something from them.
Sorry to hear that. You're not alone, I've had to fix those bad connections all the time for clients. I wish they would just do it right the first time!
Wonder how very highly rated OLIVER fiberglass trailers compare overall to Airstreams ?
Love this review! Thinking of off grid rv company and what brand to chose. Subscriber here. Can you please do In-Tech terra compared to airstream? Thank you!
Also thank you Arthur! Lol
Great suggestion. Added it to my list!
Thank you!
@@undercoverrvtech
Are Gulfstream Vista Cruiser's,good trailer's.
Airstreams do have slideouts guy rare though
You mean the Atlas? I don't think anyone really thinks of that as an Airstream.
I like Airstream a lot. Sad to hear about that front trunk affecting trailer like that. Wonder what causes it
There's absolutely nothing about these trailers that justifies the asking price.
other than when you sell an airstream and get a great price compared to SOB.
They cost more than my truck. I don't think I can bring myself to spend that on one, though I love the Basecamp.
Airstream is a great RV. I’ve have our 1999 Bambi since 2000 with only minor to mid issues. I think no other RV brand would last this long. Most of the appliances in my 1999 Bambi are made in USA with the exception of Dometic refrigerator made in Sweden. I still have original A/C, water heater, stove, refrigerator. I replaced the water pump years ago and the axle and LP tanks in 2023.
My son and three other friends have mid to late 2013-2022 Airstreams and all appliances are made in China. I’m not being racist it’s a low quality issue. My son and friends have had A/C, refrigerators, water heaters, and water pumps replaced (all made in China). Manufacturers love the low cost of Chinese made products but the quality is not there yet
I can say the same thing about our 2008 Safari Sport 22 footer. The worse thing that came on it originally were the tires; They didn't hold up very well I replaced them all after the 1st 3 years including the spare. Other than that it has been a fairly reliable travel trailer since I bought it new.
We shopped Airstream but decided on an Oliver Legacy Elite II based on the quality of the manufacturing and customer service. I’d be interested to hear your take on Oliver Travel Trailers.
I like the built quality of the Oliver but the sterile alien ship white interior was a deal breaker for me. It felt like a hospital😅 escape is a bit wider and some humanly warm wood decor and fabrics felt more friendly
Aesthetics aside, I’d love to see a review on your channel of an Oliver. After taking the factory tour, we felt the quality and craftsmanship of the Oliver was second to none. It only takes few decorative touches to soften the “sterile” interior. If you are ever in the Florida panhandle area, we’d love to show you ours.
Just found your channel, new subscriber. Question, are there any RVs that use solid wood for the cabinets? Is so would that make plywood a 9 and solid wood a 10? Anyways, enjoyed the video...
Northwood and Outdoors RV have solid wood cabinets
Several manufacturers use real wood. I've gone back and forth on if plywood should be a 9 or 10. I decided 10 because it's pretty much as durable but I agree that real wood would be my pick too
If airstream were to come up with a truly innovated slide system, that would work with the curvature of their trailers I might be on board. Otherwise for my family and dogs it is just too dang cramped inside any of these airstreams.
Whats the name of the App. How do i get it?
Since Thor now owns them, I would personally hesitate.
It's interesting how many brands Thor owns, and how much the quality changes so much from brand to brand. Some are plumbed correctly. Others are not. You think they have some standards across every brand under them, but it's all over the place
I’m wondering about the extra braces added to the front of the models with the storage (front bed) regarding separation. There are all kinds of rumors that AS added support to the frame of the 2024 but of course we cant see if that true. We have the 2024 GT 27 fbq. Do you know the answer? That would drastically change the grade of the newer models and I pray it’s true
I don't know the answer. I would believe that Airstream would try something different to solve the problem, but time will tell if their solution works.
who makes good RVs?
There are many RVs in my database that have an A grade both graded by me and other Undercover Shoppers who have used my app to grade RVs. You can check out all the details here at undercoverrvshopper.com/
Thanks for watching!
I havnt even watched the video but I'll complain anyway.. Its a metal tube in the sun of a campground seems like a good idea. Also no slideouts, no tube for me please. Everyone at the campground hates them because when one pulls up next to you the wifi stops working. *edit dexter axel/suspensions are standard on many midrange models now its not even a thing
Good quality for sure. But overpriced.
Would an aluminum skin cause more condensation in winter? Would it take more propane to keep warm? Would it be hotter in summer if not in a shaded area?
No, No & No - they are airtight and insulated well with an enclosed underbelly. We're on our 5th RV. Our Airstream runs circles around the "white boxes".
We have a 27' airstream globetrotter, and had a 22' airstream bambi before it. I haven't had any other travel trailers, so I don't have anything to compare it to. But I will say that you've zeroed in one one of my main gripes about both airstreams. It has an aluminum outer skin, aluminum structural ribs, and an aluminum inner skin. There's a reason aluminum is used for heat sinks and radiators in cars... it's extremely efficient at passing heat (and cold) through it. We spend 6 weeks in our trailer in AZ in Jan and part of Feb each year (I'm writing this from my aluminum tube right now!). We go through a lot of propane keeping the thing warm at night. Althgou the air is warm, you can feel the cold radiating off of the walls. The windows are single pane, so on cold nights, there's lots of condensation in the glass.
We don't get condensation on the aluminum walls though. Just the windows.
The build quality of these trailers is pretty good overall. The cabinets are really nice. But as a perpetual tinkerer, I'm constantly finding things to improve or upgrade or fix. The appliances airstream uses seem to be the same as any other travel trailer. So I kind of think you're paying for expensive aluminum and the 2-man labor required to buck rivet it, the brand name, and the unique look and nostalgia of airstreams. So I do tend to think they're a bit overpriced. We love our trailer overall though.
@@pierpalicious The one thing allot of Airstream owners forget is how easy they are to tow, & the amount you save on fuel towing a Airstream because of the design, & weight; Compared to box trailer.