Included in the stories that my Grandfather used to tell about the lucky events that made his life rather charmed, was how he withdrew all of his savings in September of 1929 to buy his Pontiac Sports Coupe. His bank failed the next month. The Pontiac held up all through the Depression, getting him to the WPA projects that he worked on to survive.
My brother served in the Army in Germany in the early '50s. While still in Germany, he purchased a 1954 Pontiac to be picked up when he reached New York upon discharge from the military. He drove it home from New York..The things I remember most about it were the light-up hood ornament, the long engine, and the matching long battery.
@@Finnigan9 It was fitted from the factory with a 6-volt battery. Three cells, edge to edge instead of side to side in a case only 4 inches wide but 19 inches long. 8-volt batteries were aftermarket products.
That 1932 Pontiac V8 sedan was a beautiful car. It is interesting learning about the history of Pontiac. These sales figures were impressive at the time. In the 20's the be selling 30-40 thousand cars a year was a lot and that was considered low, to sell 250 thousand cars a year is amazing and you can see why Pontiac was able to cement themselves as one of the most successful American auto manufactures in history. These were very desirable cars. Still, it really is all about the 1964 Pontiac GTO. That was the one baby!
I remember when people still drove these. Some of these had a lighted Native American design hood ornament. I Love Lucy did product placement of these for their trip to California.
Pontiac guy myself. Thanks Adam for what you do. I love learning more about them. POCI, amazing how Pontiac hobbyists just kept the name long after Oakland was gone. When you talked about Oakland & LaSalle and that era in GM history, for a second I thought, is he gonna get into the Viking & the Marquette too 😁
That was a nice 64 GTO in the background of one segment. Makes me wish I still had mine... My parents had a 55 or 56 Pontiac when I was a kind. Still remember a trip from CA to OK in it.
Adam: Appreciate you going back into the 1950’s on your channel. I always learn useful information from your channel. Thank you for all that you do for your followers!
Oakland motor company was purchase by GM and later replaced by Pontiac as a brand in 1931. OMC life was 1909-1931. The irony is Potomac started out as a model in Oakland’s lineup it would eventually replace Oakland as name of and start a long life for GM at producing cars above Chevrolet and below Buick price points. It would turned into GM’s sporting divison over time . One noted for innovation. All originated originally from Oakland motor company.
Grandma had one of those 50's Pontiacs when I was a little kid. Hadn't thought about it till I saw this video. I was too young to know what engine it had or even what model it was. It was a big four door with Dagmar bumper guards. I suspect it had the base engine (whatever that was). Grandma and Gramps lived through the great depression and they were always conservative about their cars. Rubber mats on the floor, no options, and power nothing.
Funny thing: About a month ago we were watching "I Love Lucy" and a little bit of the episode revolved around a "1955 Pontiac Star Chief." They, Lucy-Ricky-Ethel and Fred, drove the car from NYC to Hollywood (season 4.) Thanks to Adam for posting......
There are several odd design choices on the engine as I recall: 1) the valves are at an angle to the pistons which would presumably boost intake flow - but then the intake manifolds had quite a convoluted path. Claude Burton drove a Pontiac V8 in the 1930 Indianapolis 500 and finished a very respectable 11th place - impressive as the engine was near stock.
the odd intake was due to the updraft carburetors that were used at the time. By the mid 1930s the more modern downdraft carburetor would become commonplace
@@Thomas63r2 , Soo, did the exhaust get routed down through the block on the near side in the video, and then connect to the piping to the rear of the car??
Really excellent !! You are pointing out important history that is overlooked by most car enthusiasts who are focused on the 1950's and later developments. GM in particular had and amazing assortment of engines from its beginning in 1908 up into the 1940s. Northway division built a number of it's early V8's in the teens and early 1920's (one of which you mistakenly pictured as the 1930 Oakland) Check them out! Cadillac was the first at GM with v8 in 1915, but Chevrolet and Oakland got theirs in about 1917-ish. Cadillac went cross plane crank in 1924, first in the industry, then Viking and Oakland for 1929 -30 were also cross plane. Yes, Cadillac originated that unique American cross plane V8 rumble in 1924 !
I can't believe someone besides me was gonna bring up Northway. 😅. When you get into the real early history its interesting because you rarely if ever hear or read about it. I've a great GMC book that talks about the Northway engine division. Great post. I just learned some more 👍
Yea, it's a shame that most car nuts think the flathead Ford was the first mass produced V8. I think a super cool subject for this channel would be the American V8's of the teens and early 1920's. It was a thing back then in higher priced cars, and some really cool (both flathead and overhead valve)engines were produced. @@Sheisthedevilyouknowwho-ft9we
Yes, That's a Northway, for sure. Several different variants of this style flathead were built with that distinctive water neck setup on the heads. I think it was even sold outside of GM to some small makes.@@michaelbenardo5695
@@timmcooper294 Fords flathead wasn’t the first, but it certainly was the most popular at the time and it got much of America behind the wheel of a v8-powered car. It was really only during Iacocca’s tenure where they were actually the first to do something
Hi Adam, this video really resonated with me as I owned a 1955 Pontiac Star Chief 2 dr hardtop in cream and brown. I purchased the car from a friend at college for $15.00, it was 1971. Loved the car, even loved the hood ornament, Chief Pontiac would lightup when you put the headlights on.
My mom and dad had a new Star Chief 2D HT in 55 with the new for 55 Strato Streak. My dad immediately turned it into a 50's hot rod cruiser. 4B, dual points and exhaust. Chrome skirts, all the bumper guard's, spindles on the hubcaps, big wide exhaust tips, blue reflectors to make the stop lights look pink and those wind things by the wing windows. I loved the light up Indian head on the hood and when the 57's came out he added those fender top lights. The kids in the neighborhood thought I was the luckiest kid to ride in that thing all the time. Kids would hang in the street when it was time for my dad to get home from work to see and hear it coming down the street.
Wow what amazing facts, really interesting and exciting to hear about early Pontiac v8 facts, really enjoy everything you talk about, please keep going.
My first Pontiac is over the shoulder of the subject model. 1964 GTO. It was a 389 4-barrel, 4 speed, black over white, and pretty bare bones. Thus also very light. Stuck a bored and balanced 396-375 in it. Surprised a couple people
Same here,but when my 389 went south I replaced it with a balanced and blueprinted ‘70 RA/IV crate engine.I put it on a bunch of mid to late ‘60s big block Chevelles and Novas.A few of them were old high school friends of mine.They claimed it was a 427 or 454 swap till I shined a flashlight thru the open hood scoop at the valve covers.I DID have a 4.88 geared 12 bolt posi from a ‘66 Chevelle under it tho.
Off topic, but the comments on engine mounts reminded me of a 1950 Oldsmobile belonging to my uncle. If driven hard by, let's say, a teenager the engine would torque way over and lock the throttle linkage. If it happened in a curve on a wet road, it could lead to an off-road excursion---or so I am told!
That was a great history lesson on that car now if you happen to see one these cars please do a recording on the sound of that early flat-plane motor in one of those cars .
3:44 is an example of a right hand drive Oakland in Australia. GM may have shipped them as right hand drive complete knock down (CKD) kits for assembly in Australia. The number plate says "SA The Festival State", SA being the state of South Australia.
A guy in our neighborhood had one of these when I was a lot younger. Pa always said PONTIAC meant poor old Nathan thinks its a cadillac. I always thought that was funny. Nathan was high fallutin. In his own mind.
@@Cantthinkofahandle117 I remember that one too. From about 1937 - 48, there was a bigger B body Pontiac, and in 40 - 41, even a C body Pontiac. They were really nice cars, as nice as an Olds or Buick Special. Dropping it for 49 really hurt Pontiac, as they went back to being "big Chevys".
That particular V8 didn't have ANY exhaust manifolds - the exhaust gas path was integral to the block and there was only one opening on the side of the block where the pipe attached. I bet that did wonders for it's reliability when pulling steep grades or hauling heavy loads.....lol.
Yup, running exhaust ports through the V 8 (and12) block was pretty much a Ford/Lincoln thing. Reduced the parts count and cost, but transferred heat into the coolant. Most other side valve V engines ran exhaust ports into the valley, often using them to warm the carb and intake system, aiding fuel vaporisation.
@@PhilMarks-ki1ubwhich does not help at cold start and reduces power later. Why not just use down draft carbs on individual throttle bodies? To work under acceleration, I envision two opposite floats and two injection needles per port. I read that flat plane V8 can have a narrow angle. Maybe let all intake runners end in a line. The place 9 swimmers in between them plus the ends.
Hey Adam, this is a great Pontiac!!! Lucy, Ricky, Ethel & Fred enjoyed driving a beautiful new Pontiac convertible from New York to California!!! Woo Hoo!!! 🎉🎈
I sure did not know that Pontiac had a V8 back then, even tho I did know about the 1917 Chevy V8. I'm wondering about the engine block- was it cast in one piece like Ford's V8? I thought Ford's claim to fame was that he was the first to cast the block as a one-piece casting. It sure would be cool to hear that Poncho run!
The 1932 Pontiac, 1929-31 Oakland (Crossplane crank version of same engine) and the 1929 Viking V8's were all one piece blocks well before Ford, and had some real design advantages as well. Not cheap as Ford or produced in near the numbers, died due to cost vs market.
@@timmcooper294 Are you sure that V8 as used in the Oakland had a 90 degree crank? I thought it had the same flat-plane crank as the 32 Pontiac version, just a different Synchronizer.
I may have mixed it up with the very similar Viking engine. I do now recall that the Oakland had the synchronizer pushrod on the opposite side of the block ! Thanks for the catch. @@michaelbenardo5695
Pontiac had to once again deal with egine shake and vibration when they came out with the slant four in the '61 Tempest.Same way too. Super soft engine mounts!
Had a 1954 Pontiac first car l had low mileage bought it at sixteen three speed on the column drove it for years it would get hot a tube ran across the head of the engines had vacuumed wipers and it would hit a hundred on the highway way . Those. cars were bullet proof had god ventilation you could open the wings up for airflow no air conditioning. Well built .
Horsepower wars never end. In the 90s and 2000s it was the v6 horsepower wars when we saw hp go from around 150 (ohv gm v6s and smaller displacement ohc japanese engines) to 300hp in engines like th3 chrysler pentistar honda j35 and gm 3.6 dohc v6. Id say the real door buster was the nissan vQ35 that pushed the status quo up to 240hp in the 2002 Altima.
it was a General Motors' decision to start "Companion cars"' As you said ; Lasalle was Cadillac's companion Oldsmobile's companion was Viking Buick's companion was Marquette Oakland's companion was Pontiac Chevrolet didn't have a companion.
I think that the '56 offered a substantial power increase over the '55. Was the blown up engine clogged with varnish/sludge such that the oil pump couldn't pull oil through the screen or otherwise the flow of oil to the bearings got blocked? I think some of the early multiviscosity oils were coming out in that period and had problems.
@@davidpowell3347 It was quite a bit faster than the 55. Multi-Vis oil was a new thing then, and it wasn't very good. I didn't start using it until a few years go, as I had a bad experience with it in the 70s - it sheared, so I never tried it again, until now. Another problem was many of us, myself included, would use detergent oil. The early detergent wasn't very good. It would sometimes separate. That happened to me, so I went back to non-detergent, until about 20 years ago. Every year I had to drop the pan on my cars to clean out the sludge, AND, to clean the oil pump pickup screen. Many non-detergent users never did that.
Pontiac's were always nicer than the comparable Chevrolet, all the way till the end. Chevy was well aware of this and always tried to keep Pontiac on a short leash and was instrumental in killing quite a few Pontiac models they deemed as threats.
@@serfcityherewecome8069 You are aware that many of the engineers and designers at GM would work at various divisions. Chevy didn't steel anything it is more likely that something designed by a Pontiac engineer was shared with Chevrolet and vice versa could occur. True the divisions were separate but thru many of Adam's interviews we have discovered design and component sharing throughout GM divisions. There were specific engines and transmissions for each division but there were many relate components and even technology. Chevrolet was the volume seller and Pontiac was more performance but thru the years distinctions between both divisions became less distinctive. The GM bankruptcy GM was required as a condition of the Government bailout to close both Pontiac and Saturn.
I see it's a flathead. Was it a 90 degree vee? Looking at it also makes one understand why Henry ran the exhaust ports thru the block to get the manifold at the bottom of the engine--practical or not.
It separated the intake and exhaust manifolds and simplified design and casting--but created other problems that wouldn't be ironed out for years.@@johnnicol8598
We had a neighbor that had moved from Spokane, Washington to a farm next to us in South Dakota. He had married the neighbor lady. He was a mechanic and had a 50 Pontiac he had stuck a V8 in. He was a crazy driver. One time they got company from out west and the guy had a Lincoln. They were all going into town. Email in the 50 Pontiac a head and the guy in the Lincoln was going to pass him. Emil floored that Pontiac and kicked up rocks on the gravel road and knocked some of the headlights out on the Lincoln. Guy was pissed, but Emil had a car repair shop in town and fixed him up. Lincoln was about a 58 or 59 convertible.
Benjamin Anibal designed it. Also, they are a Horizontal-valve, flathead design, which makes for in essence, a sharp triangular combustion chamber; very similar to the Lycoming V8.
The 287 was ready for production for the '53 model year, and the frames were designed to accommodate it, but Woodward Ave. ordered it shelved. Why? Buick complained to Al Sloan that Pontiac offering their V8 would rob Buick of sales of their nailhead for "53, and, Buick being Sloan's favorite division because of Harlow Curtice and Harley Earl, the Strato Chief arrived in '55. Engine swaps with Pontiac V8s into '53s and '54s were not uncommon later, as the Oakland straight 8 was not a very hardy or efficient engine, most never making it to 100K before a rebuild...if the block hadn't sagged too much.
Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. I am more familiar with the current Ford 5.2 L flat plane V8. Years ago I talked with one of the development engineers for that engine. He mentioned that there was a lot of money and time in R&D spent on the crankshaft vibration damper to try to smooth the engine out at lower speeds.
I've heard about this before, been a long-time Pontiac nut. It is Oakland's own engine. Now after I read yours, (I already knew about the Viking) now I want to find more info on early Olds/Viking engines. You might interested in GMs early Northway engine division. Another poster here wrote some about it too.
Ferrari still does. The problem with them is that they cause the same kind of vibration/resonance problems as a 4 cylinder engine, but because it is V8 smooth at most speeds, when it does vibrate, it is more of an annoyance than it is on a 4. Not a problem on a sports or racing car, but can be pretty annoying in a closed passenger car. Body and interior panels will buzz at certain speed/load conditions. Convertibles are noisy enough that it isn't as noticeable. The first Straight 8s also used a flat-plane crank.
Fascinating backstory regarding the Oakland /Pontiac relationship and transition. I learned at an early age that Pontiac “used to be” Oakland but was never fully informed as far as what actually caused the name change. Maybe you said it and if you did I apologize for missing it, but I’d be interested to know what year GM officially retired the Oakland brand and started calling all models Pontiacs?
I doubt it. The second gen V16 used a 135 degree angle between the banks, which means an entirely new design of the block. It is possible that Caddy used some of the valve train pieces, tho.
LOOKs very similar to the 1922 OLDS V8 which came in the 22 Oldsmobile Super Sport. IT actually had an aluminum engine block with bolted on cast iron cyclinders. Updraft Johnson Carb. We recommissioned the the 1922 Oldsmobile V8 with 2500 original miles which the VP of LVMH owns.
I think the cross-plane crank was an innovation in early 20th century, done for better secondary balance. Even high performance V8s still use them, as the weight savings in a flatplane is not worth the worse balance.
@@lesliehorwinkle It also fits the geometry of the V8 better. 8 cylinders, 2 revs per power stroke, 360*2/8 =90. Similarly, the crank throws on a 6 cylinder are 360*2/6 =120 degrees apart. I've actually heard the Mustang "voodoo" flat-plane crank is a total gimmick--to get race care sound and vibration. They even made the crank throws on the front and back 180 deg apart, which isn't normally don't because it creates front to back rocking forces.
I had a 1928 Pontiac 4 door sedan with an Essex instrument panel. I was told that my Pontiac was built by Essex body works. It had a inline six flat head with two heads covering three cylinders. I did not see any Oakland connection at all.
So ford wasn't the first with a flathead V8 engine... if memory serves me then this engine was not really a "Flat" head design but close as it did have a funny surface or not totally flat because of the way the fuel was entering the chambers... I remember seeing one flathead, who's I am also not sure of but the exhaust was above and the intake was below like a Lincoln engine was for a while
That makes Henry Ford a bit bold on the declaration he was putting the first V8 in a low cost passenger car Dealer prices 1932 Oakland v8 $1995 1932 Ford v8 Tudor $450 You could buy 5 1932 Ford v8 Tudors Great research skills , for sure Very informative and interesting
Included in the stories that my Grandfather used to tell about the lucky events that made his life rather charmed, was how he withdrew all of his savings in September of 1929 to buy his Pontiac Sports Coupe. His bank failed the next month.
The Pontiac held up all through the Depression, getting him to the WPA projects that he worked on to survive.
WOW....! What a great story!
Everything was coming up Milhouse for him.
Your Grandfather knew more than one meaning of 'Good Timing' !
My great grandfather took one of those 1930's pontiac v8s and used it to make a portable sawmill.
My brother served in the Army in Germany in the early '50s. While still in Germany, he purchased a 1954 Pontiac to be picked up when he reached New York upon discharge from the military. He drove it home from New York..The things I remember most about it were the light-up hood ornament, the long engine, and the matching long battery.
The long narrow battery was an 8 volt.
@@Finnigan9 It was fitted from the factory with a 6-volt battery. Three cells, edge to edge instead of side to side in a case only 4 inches wide but 19 inches long. 8-volt batteries were aftermarket products.
That '32 V8 Coupe is stunning.
I miss Pontiac. I miss them a lot.
That green "32 is one of the prettiest cars I'Ve seen.
That 1932 Pontiac V8 sedan was a beautiful car. It is interesting learning about the history of Pontiac. These sales figures were impressive at the time. In the 20's the be selling 30-40 thousand cars a year was a lot and that was considered low, to sell 250 thousand cars a year is amazing and you can see why Pontiac was able to cement themselves as one of the most successful American auto manufactures in history. These were very desirable cars. Still, it really is all about the 1964 Pontiac GTO. That was the one baby!
I remember when people still drove these. Some of these had a lighted Native American design hood ornament. I Love Lucy did product placement of these for their trip to California.
Pontiac guy myself. Thanks Adam for what you do. I love learning more about them. POCI, amazing how Pontiac hobbyists just kept the name long after Oakland was gone. When you talked about Oakland & LaSalle and that era in GM history, for a second I thought, is he gonna get into the Viking & the Marquette too 😁
That was a nice 64 GTO in the background of one segment. Makes me wish I still had mine... My parents had a 55 or 56 Pontiac when I was a kind. Still remember a trip from CA to OK in it.
The grey ’55 and the green ’32 are some the handsomest Pontiacs I’ve seen. This is very interesting history. More Please!
Adam: Appreciate you going back into the 1950’s on your channel. I always learn useful information from your channel. Thank you for all that you do for your followers!
Pontiac first v8 1932
Wasn’t that technically an Oakland V8 though
Seems like useless information, personally, but I love it, just the same. 😁
I like the artwork for the 55 Pontiac.
Thanks for the video 😊
Such a gorgeous automobile. Very stately.
Great video; love the obscure elements of automotive history. Thanks
Thank you for another premium presentation.
Oakland motor company was purchase by GM and later replaced by Pontiac as a brand in 1931. OMC life was 1909-1931. The irony is Potomac started out as a model in Oakland’s lineup it would eventually replace Oakland as name of and start a long life for GM at producing cars above Chevrolet and below Buick price points. It would turned into GM’s sporting divison over time . One noted for innovation. All originated originally from Oakland motor company.
Grandma had one of those 50's Pontiacs when I was a little kid. Hadn't thought about it till I saw this video. I was too young to know what engine it had or even what model it was. It was a big four door with Dagmar bumper guards. I suspect it had the base engine (whatever that was). Grandma and Gramps lived through the great depression and they were always conservative about their cars. Rubber mats on the floor, no options, and power nothing.
Funny thing: About a month ago we were watching "I Love Lucy" and a little bit of the episode revolved around a "1955 Pontiac Star Chief." They, Lucy-Ricky-Ethel and Fred, drove the car from NYC to Hollywood (season 4.) Thanks to Adam for posting......
There are several odd design choices on the engine as I recall: 1) the valves are at an angle to the pistons which would presumably boost intake flow - but then the intake manifolds had quite a convoluted path. Claude Burton drove a Pontiac V8 in the 1930 Indianapolis 500 and finished a very respectable 11th place - impressive as the engine was near stock.
I believe that it also had a single exhaust outlet only on the driver's side of the engine block.
the odd intake was due to the updraft carburetors that were used at the time. By the mid 1930s the more modern downdraft carburetor would become commonplace
@@marquis281v8 This has a down draft carburetor with a rear facing inlet as seen at 5:13
@Thomas63r2 ; it appears as if the exhaust manifold is at the top of the block and straddles the intake manifold.🤔
@@Thomas63r2 , Soo, did the exhaust get routed down through the block on the near side in the video, and then connect to the piping to the rear of the car??
Really excellent !! You are pointing out important history that is overlooked by most car enthusiasts who are focused on the 1950's and later developments. GM in particular had and amazing assortment of engines from its beginning in 1908 up into the 1940s. Northway division built a number of it's early V8's in the teens and early 1920's (one of which you mistakenly pictured as the 1930 Oakland) Check them out! Cadillac was the first at GM with v8 in 1915, but Chevrolet and Oakland got theirs in about 1917-ish. Cadillac went cross plane crank in 1924, first in the industry, then Viking and Oakland for 1929 -30 were also cross plane. Yes, Cadillac originated that unique American cross plane V8 rumble in 1924 !
I can't believe someone besides me was gonna bring up Northway. 😅. When you get into the real early history its interesting because you rarely if ever hear or read about it. I've a great GMC book that talks about the Northway engine division. Great post. I just learned some more 👍
Yea, it's a shame that most car nuts think the flathead Ford was the first mass produced V8.
I think a super cool subject for this channel would be the American V8's of the teens and early 1920's. It was a thing back then in higher priced cars, and some really cool (both flathead and overhead valve)engines were produced. @@Sheisthedevilyouknowwho-ft9we
I was wondering kind of engine that wrong photo was!
Yes, That's a Northway, for sure. Several different variants of this style flathead were built with that distinctive water neck setup on the heads. I think it was even sold outside of GM to some small makes.@@michaelbenardo5695
@@timmcooper294 Fords flathead wasn’t the first, but it certainly was the most popular at the time and it got much of America behind the wheel of a v8-powered car. It was really only during Iacocca’s tenure where they were actually the first to do something
Hi Adam, this video really resonated with me as I owned a 1955 Pontiac Star Chief 2 dr hardtop in cream and brown. I purchased the car from a friend at college for $15.00, it was 1971. Loved the car, even loved the hood ornament, Chief Pontiac would lightup when you put the headlights on.
Wow the Corvette finally caught up to Pontiac.
It’s always been a great looking car.
I would love to find one of those chieftain station wagons.
Save money on the crank.
Burn those savings on custom engine mounts and suspension, to compensate for the cheaper crank.
Classic:)
Awesome Pontiac Engine Retrospective, Adam😊👏
Love the versatility of that fire extinguisher doing double-duty as a wheel chock.
Interesting information and I appreciate learning more about Oakland and Pontiac as I have read about them. Thank you Adam.
Thanks for your hard work Adam you always bring us informative videos!
Well done... Im a 63-forward kinda guy... but this was VERY interesting...Thanks so much...
My mom and dad had a new Star Chief 2D HT in 55 with the new for 55 Strato Streak. My dad immediately turned it into a 50's hot rod cruiser. 4B, dual points and exhaust. Chrome skirts, all the bumper guard's, spindles on the hubcaps, big wide exhaust tips, blue reflectors to make the stop lights look pink and those wind things by the wing windows. I loved the light up Indian head on the hood and when the 57's came out he added those fender top lights. The kids in the neighborhood thought I was the luckiest kid to ride in that thing all the time. Kids would hang in the street when it was time for my dad to get home from work to see and hear it coming down the street.
Ohhh, I LOVE it. Beautiful car, excellent video
Wow what amazing facts, really interesting and exciting to hear about early Pontiac v8 facts, really enjoy everything you talk about, please keep going.
My grandparents had a new 1956 Pontiac. I can still remember that new car smell. Black and white, really nice car.
My first Pontiac is over the shoulder of the subject model.
1964 GTO.
It was a 389 4-barrel, 4 speed, black over white, and pretty bare bones. Thus also very light.
Stuck a bored and balanced 396-375 in it.
Surprised a couple people
Same here,but when my 389 went south I replaced it with a balanced and blueprinted ‘70 RA/IV crate engine.I put it on a bunch of mid to late ‘60s big block Chevelles and Novas.A few of them were old high school friends of mine.They claimed it was a 427 or 454 swap till I shined a flashlight thru the open hood scoop at the valve covers.I DID have a 4.88 geared 12 bolt posi from a ‘66 Chevelle under it tho.
RIP pontiac
Off topic, but the comments on engine mounts reminded me of a 1950 Oldsmobile belonging to my uncle. If driven hard by, let's say, a teenager the engine would torque way over and lock the throttle linkage. If it happened in a curve on a wet road, it could lead to an off-road excursion---or so I am told!
That was a great history lesson on that car now if you happen to see one these cars please do a recording on the sound of that early flat-plane motor in one of those cars .
Yes this was interesting about Pontiac and their designs in the V8
Adam, I always enjoy your vast knowledge
3:44 is an example of a right hand drive Oakland in Australia. GM may have shipped them as right hand drive complete knock down (CKD) kits for assembly in Australia. The number plate says "SA The Festival State", SA being the state of South Australia.
Blast from the past to the Oakland from South Australia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TJ_Richards_%26_Sons
Funnily enough that very Oakland was at my house today. The Oakland car register just had their annual catch up in Tasmania this year.
Hi Adam I appreciate these videos keep them coming. And hope you are doing well
A guy in our neighborhood had one of these when I was a lot younger. Pa always said PONTIAC meant poor old Nathan thinks its a cadillac. I always thought that was funny. Nathan was high fallutin. In his own mind.
The one in the beginning that looked much like a Chevrolet.
@@joshuagibson2520same FISHER body
I always heard a slightly different version that replaced "Nathan" with something else. I always hated it.
@@joshuagibson2520 It used a Chevy-based body and chassis, but was a little bigger and had a 6 when the Chevy was still a 4.
@@Cantthinkofahandle117 I remember that one too. From about 1937 - 48, there was a bigger B body Pontiac, and in 40 - 41, even a C body Pontiac. They were really nice cars, as nice as an Olds or Buick Special. Dropping it for 49 really hurt Pontiac, as they went back to being "big Chevys".
That particular V8 didn't have ANY exhaust manifolds - the exhaust gas path was integral to the block and there was only one opening on the side of the block where the pipe attached. I bet that did wonders for it's reliability when pulling steep grades or hauling heavy loads.....lol.
Modern engines are doing the same thing now, Crazy as that seems
I see exhaust manifolds there.
Yes, on the top of the block like the Cadillac flatheads.
Yup, running exhaust ports through the V 8 (and12) block was pretty much a Ford/Lincoln thing. Reduced the parts count and cost, but transferred heat into the coolant. Most other side valve V engines ran exhaust ports into the valley, often using them to warm the carb and intake system, aiding fuel vaporisation.
@@PhilMarks-ki1ubwhich does not help at cold start and reduces power later. Why not just use down draft carbs on individual throttle bodies? To work under acceleration, I envision two opposite floats and two injection needles per port.
I read that flat plane V8 can have a narrow angle. Maybe let all intake runners end in a line. The place 9 swimmers in between them plus the ends.
Hey Adam, this is a great Pontiac!!! Lucy, Ricky, Ethel & Fred enjoyed driving a beautiful new Pontiac convertible from New York to California!!! Woo Hoo!!! 🎉🎈
And it very obviously had no windshield!
@@jeffaulik3980 That's right!!!
I enjoyed the video and also almost all the comments
Very interesting! Thank you for an entertaining and informative video! You always do a great job!
I sure did not know that Pontiac had a V8 back then, even tho I did know about the 1917 Chevy V8. I'm wondering about the engine block- was it cast in one piece like Ford's V8? I thought Ford's claim to fame was that he was the first to cast the block as a one-piece casting. It sure would be cool to hear that Poncho run!
The 1932 Pontiac, 1929-31 Oakland (Crossplane crank version of same engine) and the 1929 Viking V8's were all one piece blocks well before Ford, and had some real design advantages as well. Not cheap as Ford or produced in near the numbers, died due to cost vs market.
@@timmcooper294 Are you sure that V8 as used in the Oakland had a 90 degree crank? I thought it had the same flat-plane crank as the 32 Pontiac version, just a different Synchronizer.
I may have mixed it up with the very similar Viking engine. I do now recall that the Oakland had the synchronizer pushrod on the opposite side of the block ! Thanks for the catch. @@michaelbenardo5695
Pontiac had to once again deal with egine shake and vibration when they came out with the slant four in the '61 Tempest.Same way too. Super soft engine mounts!
They came out with a four cylinder in just about the cheapest way possible.
Had a 1954 Pontiac first car l had low mileage bought it at sixteen three speed on the column drove it for years it would get hot
a tube ran across the head of the engines had vacuumed wipers and it would hit a hundred on the highway way . Those. cars were bullet proof had god ventilation you could open the wings up for airflow no air conditioning. Well built .
Also should have been mentioned for 20's, 30's and even into the 40's was lower octane fuels and thus LOWER compression ratios.
Horsepower wars never end. In the 90s and 2000s it was the v6 horsepower wars when we saw hp go from around 150 (ohv gm v6s and smaller displacement ohc japanese engines) to 300hp in engines like th3 chrysler pentistar honda j35 and gm 3.6 dohc v6. Id say the real door buster was the nissan vQ35 that pushed the status quo up to 240hp in the 2002 Altima.
And the accident rate has also gone way up. Fact is, most motorists are not qualified to handle more speed than an old Model T has.
@@michaelbenardo5695 Drive like Hell,you'll get there quicker
it was a General Motors' decision to start "Companion cars"'
As you said ; Lasalle was Cadillac's companion
Oldsmobile's companion was Viking
Buick's companion was Marquette
Oakland's companion was Pontiac
Chevrolet didn't have a companion.
Thank you
1:25 The '54 Pontiac 268 eight rated the same horsepowerr as the '54 Studebaker 232.6 V8.
This is great information! Hope you will do more coverage of 1930’s cars in the future!
My dad had a 56 just like that. First car he ever nought new. The engine blew in 1960. One year before I was born.
I think that the '56 offered a substantial power increase over the '55.
Was the blown up engine clogged with varnish/sludge such that the oil pump couldn't pull oil through the screen or otherwise the flow of oil to the bearings got blocked? I think some of the early multiviscosity oils were coming out in that period and had problems.
@@davidpowell3347 It was quite a bit faster than the 55. Multi-Vis oil was a new thing then, and it wasn't very good. I didn't start using it until a few years go, as I had a bad experience with it in the 70s - it sheared, so I never tried it again, until now. Another problem was many of us, myself included, would use detergent oil. The early detergent wasn't very good. It would sometimes separate. That happened to me, so I went back to non-detergent, until about 20 years ago. Every year I had to drop the pan on my cars to clean out the sludge, AND, to clean the oil pump pickup screen. Many non-detergent users never did that.
I really like the firewall oil can @6:03, for the hood hinges maybe!
...and yet AGAIN, Pontiac was decades ahead of Chevy...😜
Not quite decades. Remember the 55 Chevy with the small block V-8.
Pontiac's were always nicer than the comparable Chevrolet, all the way till the end. Chevy was well aware of this and always tried to keep Pontiac on a short leash and was instrumental in killing quite a few Pontiac models they deemed as threats.
Yes, built with valvetrain technology straight-up stolen from PONTIAC.
@@serfcityherewecome8069 You are aware that many of the engineers and designers at GM would work at various divisions. Chevy didn't steel anything it is more likely that something designed by a Pontiac engineer was shared with Chevrolet and vice versa could occur. True the divisions were separate but thru many of Adam's interviews we have discovered design and component sharing throughout GM divisions. There were specific engines and transmissions for each division but there were many relate components and even technology. Chevrolet was the volume seller and Pontiac was more performance but thru the years distinctions between both divisions became less distinctive. The GM bankruptcy GM was required as a condition of the Government bailout to close both Pontiac and Saturn.
I see it's a flathead. Was it a 90 degree vee? Looking at it also makes one understand why Henry ran the exhaust ports thru the block to get the manifold at the bottom of the engine--practical or not.
Which was a terrible design choice. It dumps a LOT of heat into the cooling system, which would otherwise just go out the tailpipe.
Ford ran the exhaust ports thru the block, not the heads. Doing so also added a lot of heat to the coolant, so those early Ford V8s ran rather hot.
It separated the intake and exhaust manifolds and simplified design and casting--but created other problems that wouldn't be ironed out for years.@@johnnicol8598
@@johnnicol8598 Henry thought it left room for larger ports, although the ports on the production engine were not large.
Very interesting!
We had a neighbor that had moved from Spokane, Washington to a farm next to us in South Dakota. He had married the neighbor lady. He was a mechanic and had a 50 Pontiac he had stuck a V8 in. He was a crazy driver. One time they got company from out west and the guy had a Lincoln. They were all going into town. Email in the 50 Pontiac a head and the guy in the Lincoln was going to pass him. Emil floored that Pontiac and kicked up rocks on the gravel road and knocked some of the headlights out on the Lincoln. Guy was pissed, but Emil had a car repair shop in town and fixed him up. Lincoln was about a 58 or 59 convertible.
I would love to take a ride in one of these 50s Pontiacs
Wow. Incredibly informative video, thank you.
Imagine tossing one of these in a first gen tempest. Flat plane v8 and a rear mounted trans axle. Basically a Ferrari
That's some nice iron.
Benjamin Anibal designed it.
Also, they are a Horizontal-valve, flathead design, which makes for in essence, a sharp triangular combustion chamber; very similar to the Lycoming V8.
And the Packard, maybe the Pierce Arrow/Seagrave V12
Adam, That two-tone Pontiac 0:33 has Ontario plates, are you planning another cross border, smash and grab raid? 🤔
shh...
shh...
The 287 was ready for production for the '53 model year, and the frames were designed to accommodate it, but Woodward Ave. ordered it shelved. Why? Buick complained to Al Sloan that Pontiac offering their V8 would rob Buick of sales of their nailhead for "53, and, Buick being Sloan's favorite division because of Harlow Curtice and Harley Earl, the Strato Chief arrived in '55. Engine swaps with Pontiac V8s into '53s and '54s were not uncommon later, as the Oakland straight 8 was not a very hardy or efficient engine, most never making it to 100K before a rebuild...if the block hadn't sagged too much.
84yo. Didn't know about 1932 Pontiac with flatplane V-8. Thanks.
Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. I am more familiar with the current Ford 5.2 L flat plane V8. Years ago I talked with one of the development engineers for that engine. He mentioned that there was a lot of money and time in R&D spent on the crankshaft vibration damper to try to smooth the engine out at lower speeds.
This wouldn't have been made by Oldsmobile for Pontiac ? Was it similar to an engine (made by Oldsmobile) for a car called "Viking" ?
I've heard about this before, been a long-time Pontiac nut. It is Oakland's own engine. Now after I read yours, (I already knew about the Viking) now I want to find more info on early Olds/Viking engines. You might interested in GMs early Northway engine division. Another poster here wrote some about it too.
This was Oakland's own engine, but the Viking engine was a similar design.
I didn’t know that, thanks 👏
That 287 V* was surprisingly peppy. It was easy to burn rubber.
That '32 V-8 also looks to be a "hot vee" design.
That’s awesome news and I never knew!!
I always wondered why no one made a flat crank for cost reasons. Now I know they tried.
Ferrari still does. The problem with them is that they cause the same kind of vibration/resonance problems as a 4 cylinder engine, but because it is V8 smooth at most speeds, when it does vibrate, it is more of an annoyance than it is on a 4. Not a problem on a sports or racing car, but can be pretty annoying in a closed passenger car. Body and interior panels will buzz at certain speed/load conditions. Convertibles are noisy enough that it isn't as noticeable. The first Straight 8s also used a flat-plane crank.
@@michaelbenardo5695a flat shaft inline can only give you 4 firings.
Fascinating backstory regarding the Oakland /Pontiac relationship and transition. I learned at an early age that Pontiac “used to be” Oakland but was never fully informed as far as what actually caused the name change. Maybe you said it and if you did I apologize for missing it, but I’d be interested to know what year GM officially retired the Oakland brand and started calling all models Pontiacs?
I've never even heard of Oakland before!
Wasn't this engine doubled up to make the second generation Cadillac V16? Oldsmobiles companion make Viking used a version of this V8 too
I doubt it. The second gen V16 used a 135 degree angle between the banks, which means an entirely new design of the block. It is possible that Caddy used some of the valve train pieces, tho.
I doubt it, but you never know. The Viking engine was similar, but not the same engine.
LOOKs very similar to the 1922 OLDS V8 which came in the 22 Oldsmobile Super Sport.
IT actually had an aluminum engine block with bolted on cast iron cyclinders. Updraft Johnson Carb.
We recommissioned the the 1922 Oldsmobile V8 with 2500 original miles which the VP of LVMH owns.
Cool!😎
I believe it had a small push rod that pushed against the frame every revolution to counteract vibration.
One error - the flat-plane crank was no longer in use by 1930, except in the Oakland V8, for, just like you said, cost reasons.
I'm 76 and I never saw a bad Pontiac.
THANKS
I think the cross-plane crank was an innovation in early 20th century, done for better secondary balance. Even high performance V8s still use them, as the weight savings in a flatplane is not worth the worse balance.
yes.
@@lesliehorwinkle
It also fits the geometry of the V8 better.
8 cylinders, 2 revs per power stroke,
360*2/8 =90.
Similarly, the crank throws on a 6 cylinder are
360*2/6 =120 degrees apart.
I've actually heard the Mustang "voodoo" flat-plane crank is a total gimmick--to get race care sound and vibration. They even made the crank throws on the front and back 180 deg apart, which isn't normally don't because it creates front to back rocking forces.
What was the balancing method that you said provided an opposite force? Great video!
Super interesting setup using a pushrod actuated by eccentric that counteracted the natural shaking forces created by the flat plane crank setup.
@@timmcooper294 They called it a synchronizer.
I had a 1928 Pontiac 4 door sedan with an Essex instrument panel. I was told that my Pontiac was built by Essex body works. It had a inline six flat head with two heads covering three cylinders. I did not see any Oakland connection at all.
I like it. I don't know why, but I like it. I don't don't care for the rear end, but aside from that...❤
Flat-plane crank V-8s give out a lot of vibration; ask anyone who's driven a race car with a rigid-mounted Cosworth DFV engine.
Many cranks are forged in a flat plane anyway, and later twisted to 90 degrees.
Hi Adam Could you tell us about the 1975 to 76 cadillac fleetwood series 75 saden and the limo edition
So ford wasn't the first with a flathead V8 engine... if memory serves me then this engine was not really a "Flat" head design but close as it did have a funny surface or not totally flat because of the way the fuel was entering the chambers... I remember seeing one flathead, who's I am also not sure of but the exhaust was above and the intake was below like a Lincoln engine was for a while
Yes and the oldsmobile V8 walked all over it
Interesting. Is that "can" with a belt on top like an air conditioner, the alternator/generator?
Yes
Generator, usually with an 'AMP' gauge that was negative at idle. The red idiot light drove some crazy.
That makes Henry Ford a bit bold on the declaration he was putting the first V8 in a low cost passenger car Dealer prices 1932 Oakland v8 $1995 1932 Ford v8 Tudor $450
You could buy 5 1932 Ford v8 Tudors
Great research skills , for sure Very informative and interesting
From the pictures in the video it looks like that engine might have been more than a 90° unit. Is that accurate ?
Does this mean that Henry Ford did not market the first "all in one" V8 cast block? as we were led to believe.