Jim Cornette on Money In Wrestling: Then vs. Now
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2017
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I could listen to cornet tell stores all day everyday
And because he can talk for hours on his podcast that's exactly what I do all day
You misspelled cornhole
@@sinicalypse why are you here?
Except when he speaks about politics, he's a dyed in the wool greasy Democrats.
Sit under the learning tree and open your ears.
Just astounding how lucrative an entertainment business wrestling was - especially in the south - in those days! Really enjoy hearing these old stories!
esp without the huge TV money.
I Miss Wrestling...
You're not the only one. 😔
Jim, Ive met you on multiple occasions when working with IWCCW and then as half owner of Worldstar and I can truly say that you are the only podcast I can listen to. Whether the general population knows or not, Jim is the only guy who tells the truth about everything wrestling. Which, believe me, is a rarity in the business. It didn’t matter if I was the first match or playing DJ for the night, you were always respectful to me and always said hello and remembered me.
I truly think you need to do your own promotion to compete with Vince. One thats booked well, cares about the guys and makes the entire staff feel as important as the biggest draw on the card. You know the best people in the biz and who you can trust, along with the best workers around the world.
Keep doing the great work you do.
I wish Jim would do it. He could mentor someone as a front man(or woman). Jim you aren't too old for this. Please consider.
Yes. All of this!
@Upson Pratt it'd be pretty cool if he started his own local promotion. He wouldn't have to travel. He could run it from wherever he lives.
Worldstar Hiphop?
Out of all of the events I've been to see in person, NWA wrestling in mid through late 80's remains the most memorable. Legion Stadium (small high school size field)in wilm.n.c. all seats were close enough to the ring to feel those yelling and selling, jamming and slamming those with a seat on their feet!! I realize it probably wasn't the ideal venue for the wrestlers/crew,but they had me thinking, I and my crew feeling like we were at Starcade!! They gave it all!! Thank you again and again to all y'all that put it all on the line to create that magical feeling of suspended reality for a few hrs. Dang!... wish I could go back and watch it again right now!
"Atta boy, Luthor!"
In terms of raw sports cultural power and influence no one can top Gorgeous George. He was the archetypal heel whose influence lingers today, plus he was the highest paid athlete in the world at one point, and he also inspired Ali's trash-talking, who used that style to draw heat combined with his athletic prowess to reach his own legendary heights.
"farting through silk" has to be one of my favorite Corny-isms.
I like the "You're musical aren't you? You can play the radio" or the "Had to stop Kaeroke because of my throat, people kept threatening to cut it".
“Slicker than cum on a gold tooth!”
@Tim F That is a VERY OLD expression. My father used to use that expression. If he were alive today he would be well over a hundred years old, and it was an old expression even when he was young.
Slicker'n cum on a gold tooth.
Here's the issue: back then, even into the 80s, people had fewer entertainment options. There was no internet. There was no cable or satellite TV. And if you look in places where wrestling was big, like Tulsa for example, there weren't any major league sports. Now all of a sudden, going down to watch wrestling in person on a Tuesday night seemed like a great option.
Even if the Vince Russo's of the world didn't come along, even if Vince McMahon doesn't disrupt the system by getting in national cable, the industry was going to change.
THERE WAS CABLE IN THE 1980'S AND PAY PER VIEW STARTED IN THE 1980'S.
NWA WRESTLERS WENT TO NY IN 1984 WITH ALL OF THE CARTOON MERCHANDISING. SO A LOT OF THIS STARTED WAY BACK THEN.
DANNY HAYWOOD I think that's actually his point. The 80s were the period of media transition We had cable in the early 80s... with 26 channels.
I think the other thing that Cornette misses is that the truly big money in wrestling today doesn't come from selling tickets to live events, but rather from other revenue streams.
The big money in Sports Entertainment only comes from advertising and TV contracts in this country. House Show attendance is down, live TV taping attendance is down, PPV buys are down, even streaming numbers and merchandise sales are down. There are less people interested in the product now than have ever been before.
Love learning this stuff! The random “whatever the fuck..” makes it even better 😂
This is great. I would to find a website posting wrestling payoffs during the territory days.
Find a website posting payoffs.
53:09 This is why WWE 's booking is so erratic. With each talent, they are trying to make as big a star as possible while keeping the talents leverage and bargaining power as low as possible.
I never thought of it that way, wow. Because of what Rock did, Vince intentionally stopped any momentum of any rising superstars to check if he/she will last long/will not leave WWE, and I guess with Cena for example, he passed the test when he lost to Carlito on his very first match. Damn now I know why WWE sucks on average... because Vince INTENTIONALLY makes it suck.
Doesn't want another Austin/Rock situation
@@FLITT Between 2004 and 2007, WWE lost The Rock, Stone Cold, Goldberg, Brock Lesnar, Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle, Lita, Trish Stratus, Rob Van Dam & Chris Benoit. Christian was in TNA from 2005 to 2009 and Chris Jericho took a 3-year break for touring with his rock band.
Arm drag take down. Hip toss. Bulldog. Leg Drop. I loved Bruno. Plus, I'm a Pittsburgher, too.
Very informative. Thanks for posting. You never get to hear anything like this.
Absolutely fascinating!!!
Cornette is right. There is no money In wrestling. Unless your contracted to WWE you have no chance at a decent retirement from wrestling. They can say the Indy scene is "exploding" all they want. Just because there's a alot more indy workers than ever before it doesn't mean their selling tickets. 50 people at the local senior center just doesn't cut it as a legit business. Now it's just for fun and keeping the entertainment around.
That's probably true, but by the same token, I don't know that most of the guys from the territory days who weren't stars were making the kind of money that set them up for life either. Look at how many of them still take any small time booking they can in their 50's or even 60's because they need the money.
@@timf7413 The Problem was most guys were stupid with their Money. Blowing it as they made it. Drug habits, failed marriages, and Child Support. Steamboat said it didn't matter what you made in a week, it's what you saved in a week.
True, but that doesn't change the fact that for most of wrestling history, wrestlers haven't made nearly as much as their equivilent peers in most other pro sports or fields of entertainment. The one exception was, as Cornette has said, in the 50's when pro wrestling was on network TV and pro sports weren't truly offering huge amounts of money yet.
Ran an Indy promotion for years. Cost me thousands.
@@timf7413 If you we're not one of the small percentage of athletes who made it to NFL, NBA or MLB. Wrestling was and is still a fourth option, and you were still making more than you could working most jobs.
That's the first time I've heard Cornette mention Russo after the Restraining Order
Kenny Bolin & his son is the one's who got Russo to file the Restraining Order, because Bolin admitted it.
@@shmuel2361 why would cornette's best friend do that
Wrestlers made a lot through live events it seems (vs TV)...with ticket prices near the $1 range to boot. People were really into the ongoing stories of their stars live.
Ric was legit
Three hundred dollars in the seventies was pretty great money .
So how much is 3 hundred dollars in today's money
@@TheAaronChand almost two thousand and you have to remember things were a lot cheaper in those days , food,rent,cars.
@@mcwhorter141mcwhorter8 yes things where cheaper than in the 70s and 80s I was born premature in Canada at 27 weeks
1993 so even when I was a toddler 3 and 4 years old In 1997 1996 things where still cheaper than today. Even up until the early 2000s pre nin 11 when I started grade school 1st grade second grade. We use too cook or buy seafood around that time 1999 2000 and it was dirt cheap. Nowadays as a young adult seafood is expensive .
@@mcwhorter141mcwhorter8 keep in mind this is in Vancouver where we have a lot of Asian immigrants from India and China
They threw the money at the ceiling and what stuck the boys got
Jim Cornette sir, you have a brilliant wrestling mind, any possibilities on starting a wrestling organization down in Louisville???
What, like OVW?
It was better. As Flair said he spent more money on spilt liquor in more bars from one side of this country to the other than you (as the fan) could think of!!!
My shoe cost more than your house
I get my $1500 suits at Michael's of Kansas City.
I know the share price of wwe stock has definitely been rallying for a long while now, but that doesn't mean the quality of the product has improved. Corny is right in principle; sports entertainment sucks balls when you look at viewing figures/attendance at live shows etc. Most shareholders don't care about those things. They're just happy the stock price is going up...
In a lot of ways though, that's exactly why Vince is still standing when most of his peers no longer are. He looks at things like a business and only cares what is going to make him the most money.
Early on, he saw that there was more money in the television and licensing sides of an entertainment related businesses than in selling tickets and rode that to success.
"***** hanging from the rafters."
Jim Cornette has so many different ways to make me laugh.
Sorry Jim but your math is way off here. this is saying that the promoter Bill Watts or whoever else is paying the wrestler every year the exact amount of the inflation rate increasing it every year without fail. think about it like this, the minimum wage doesn't go up every year but minimum wage employees get that same amount for about a decade before it increased by a dollar or so, that's surely the method promoters used, according to the math that you used the minimum wage if we're going by the inflation percentage that you use, minimum wage should be about, I don't know 60 bucks. Minimum wage In 84 was 3.25 its gone up 4 dollars to 7.50. I'd reckon 100k in 84 would be around 250k instead of near a million like you have said
Now I understand why he gets so pissed at the guys who have disrespected or exposed the business. 😂😂 A young persons dream. Living on the road meeting different people. Making a great living. Being able to afford anything you could ever dream of. But through the years people found away to f it up lol
Jim makes a solid point. While Cena, Lesnar, excetra make more than top guys then. But a larger number of guys were making enough money to feel like stars.
Et cetera*
damn when your manager's professional name includes the phrase "The Strangler," you probably don't have to worry about anybody fucking you over. except your manager.
It is ironic that Lawler made that comment to Corny. Corny is probably worth as much as Lawler.
I don't have to look.. I remember, gas was 99cents
Funny, they show a St. Louis Wrestling Club check. I've had canceled checks from there that were great ones.
It wasn't until Sam Muchnick retired that the checks turned into crap.
Black glove
The Corn knows
Jim,this was a good one.
I remember reading Bob Holly's book (Great read btw arguably the best wrestling autobiography. It's critically acclaimed) and he talked about how his pay early on in the WWF was horrible. Like, barely enough to live on. Apparently lower mid card guys got paid literal peanuts back in the early 90s. And since Bob didn't make it to the upper mid card until 1999, his pay was actually not great for most of the 90s. Didn't help that Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramon once screwed him and a bunch of other mid carders out of a WrestleMania payday by going overtime to the point where the 10 man tag had to be cut. Which caused Randy Savage to be pretty pissed backstage.
But even in the 2000s, lower mid card guys weren't making enough. Take Super Crazy, who despite being a veteran with a decent fan following due to his exciting ECW run, wasn't paid enough and had to leave WWE in mid 2008 because he couldn't afford to work there anymore due to the bad pay, which wasn't making paying for travel and food very easy. Sadly enough, Super Crazy wouldn't ever get a big gig in America again and kind of faded into the limbo that his contemporaries from ECW also fell into. Such as Steven Richards, Kid Kash, Steve Corino and Simon Diamond to name a few.
Business was the s**** in the early nineties though
@@dante040 True. His got a little better as time went on. Originally, he was legit going hungry. Bob Holly was literally a starving artist. I respect him so much. He was such an underrated worker and he had Technical skill that was very hard to rival as well as lots of believability. Wish he would've made it to the upper level. He was pretty over in the late 90s and early 2000s when he was doing the team with Crash, the Hardcore Championship thing and the when he was feuding with Jericho and Chyna for the IC belt. Wish they would've seen what I see in him.
Me too.,...Jim Corny knows his wrestling content!!
Cornette has enough memorabilia to keep him wealthy for his entire life. If he ever needed it
Price Von Erick was raking in money during the VonErick/Freebirds feud hay day as well.
There are stories of him paying off cops/judges big money when the kids got into trouble with the law.
17:20 so lawler made 9 grand for half an hours work impressive
Wish I could do that.
With all of his mother's money,Jim Cornette should start a wrestling federation. Just the money off Skandar Akbars oil dealings should have cash enough for five years commercial free.
Jim, I have never seen an armoured truck in a funeral procession. Come on Jim .
I wonder how much Austin made in 1998.
With merchandise probably like 1 or 2 mill
all merch
Austin definitely made bank considering that 1998 was one of his absolute peak years. 1997 - 2000 was when Austin 3:16 hype was at it's highest point. Especially 1998 and 1999. And in my opinion it would have lasted longer if his neck and knees weren't injured as badly as they were. That's why he had to retire in 2003 and didn't come back for another 19 years.
I'm stuck in the 80s and I hear about it alot but It does necessarily bother me because in my opinion we got the best of everything in that decade. And I feel lucky to have grown up then. I'm a huge horror movie collector and the 80s was it plus the music the wrestling was just as over the top as the colorful and çrazy styles of clothing that was popular then.
Yet technology and the fact is in the 21st century we have more options for entertainment and dont forget the internet and easy access to information.
It doesn't matter the decade... The good part that you were young and care free!
more of content like this please
Bruno had a good gig going on back then and as he got older he wanted Vince to pay him millions...The thing about wrestling is that very few wrestlers can still draw amazing crowds as they get older. Flair is one of the only guys that comes to mind. Alot of these wrestlers come off as very greedy.
Terry Garvin's Check, smh
Jake "The Milkman" Mi!liman!!!!!
I have listen to Jim say this time and time again. This is why i always say Vince McMahon is NOT the epidomy of professional wrestling. Today even you will make more money working territorial than you will working for WWF/WWE. Nick Aldis the current NWA Champion has a net worth of $104 Million in 15 years if pro wrestling. Nick's wife works for WWE and has a net worth if $5 Million which is a $94 Million Dollar difference of territorial independant vs major conglomerate. Tim Storm has a net worth of $50/$60 Million. Big Show only makes in the mid six figures after 15-20 years of working with WWE. Do the math.
Is that the Tim Storm from the old Texas PCW days with Apoc and the Dark Circle? I know he went on to join an NWA affiliate in Arkansas after that but hard to imagine him making that kind of money. Ive been to several independent “NWA” shows around Ft Worth over the past several years and most are in either Elks Lodges or an un-air conditioned warehouse in a business complex. Havent seen anything as good around North Texas as PCW was in the 2000s but even then, they only wrestled maybe twice a week on weekends. Definitely nothing like the old territory days.
Where is your proof that Nick Aldis is worth anywhere near $100,000,000? You can't even spell epitome, so I have a hard time believing you.
His net worth is 1 million.
Lol at this! I think you have been fooled by one of those joke ‘net-worth’ sites, as there is no way Aldis has a net-worth of that amount from wrestling - Steve Austin would be a multi-billionaire if Aldis is worth £100million! Don’t believe everything you read bud - be more skeptical!
I love this shit!
The man is a walking encyclopedia.
Depending on the promoter, travel, and venue! I had to jerk off the dog to feed the cat! unless u r a top star and can indy contract out there is no money!!!!
lmao wtf
Lmao
Been a long time since l heard anyone but me use that one
I always use it when the How poor l was stories start
i don't think the inflation calculator necessarily works when it comes to calculating sporting contracts. joe dimaggio made 100k in 1950. the highest paid athlete in baseball today is making 43million. i think we'd have to calculate not from just inflation but really corporate advertising spending and tv rights deals which barely existed in 1950 compared to today
Khamala gets a mere 13 grand for Wrestlemania.
Kamala never worked Wrestlemania
Yes he was. Wrestlemania 17
I've always wondered, why was the KC territory so bad?
It was god awful
Muchnick took over Central States with the help of Lou Thesz. Thesz was in his 40s and still wanted to hold the belt, and it was stinking up business, so Muschnick basically gave him KC so it didn't ruin St. Louis. Fans in St Louis got to see Harley Race and Nature Boy Rogers while KC was stuck with a 50-year-old Lou Thesz and a 60 year old Strangler Lewis.
Big talent from back east didn't want to come out to KC for the same reason they didn't want to go to the AWA or Dallas; bunch of old men like Thesz, Gagne and Fritz Von Erich who couldn't let go of the past and demanded they remain champions at the cost of new talent.
If you were a promoter rying to punish a guy for working opposition or something, you sent him to Fritz, Gagne or Thesz to get stretched and humiliated for six months, and then they'd either quit or come back humbled. That's why KC was always the shits after 1960. When Muchnick sold KC to WCW, Crockett couldn't even use it as a developmental territory, it was so dead.
Muchnick paid 32%. Main event got 16. Mid carder got 4 and prelim 2%. No skimming no rounding down
Wait... People buy old cheques?
There really is no thing , you can't collect, apparently 🤣🤣
Jimmy you need to be elected official wrestling historian.
no one does it better!!!!!!!!!!except me....and you will know me by the scars i share....
But Jim, What do you think of Russo?
Just curious. Is the way Corny says Louisville the way it's supposed to be pronounced?
It's Louie-Ville You do not pronounce the S
LoulVille
He's not talking about the S he talking about LouuuulVille...Dumbass
ric flair could have been very rich today
Vetal83 RF would be rich if he didn't spend all his money as soon as he got it.
He A) Let himself get ripped off and B) Spent what he did get speedily
Spent it all
When you have 3 ex wives
@@outdoorcasey I thought it was 4. And doesn't he have like 5 kids?
Classic stuff here
Mexico city good money
How is a inflation calculator calculated? The price of beer?
Magic
Buying power of a single US dollar
Ricky Morton has said that the most he ever made in a year was $120,000
The party gimmicks are expensive.
The problem with a lot of those guys is they partied too hard and blew their money.. or it was like Hogan and their wives took it all lol
Robert gibson has not gone to jail for child support. so don't drag him into it. Morton has once. hardly constitutes "kept going to jail."
That's because they probably didn't know how to handle money, like most people don't.
How the fuck did they allow themselves to get ripped off that bad? Should have went to Vince.
There's a reason that Vinnie Mac is a billionaire...
he screweddddddddddddd n cheated people left n righttttttttt ;---)
Not anymore
Oh because stupid people pay him money for shit popularity contests
When he dies, his headstone will have a higher net worth than all of us.
Whatever Corny's got you casuals believe don't ever forget that the top bill of that time including the inflation is still less than the top and low buck today. The current WWE jobbers earn more than those guys.
I think Jim's point was that more people got paid as opposed to 40-60 guys now(who wrestle in the WWe plus a few independents). I honestly don't know how some wrestlers survive as independents
That's unequivocally false.
Yeah that's not true, the nxt guys earn 24k a year as standard. You think curt hawkins is out earning the American dream?
You forgot to factor in the cheaper cost of living back then.
+James siddy The dream is dead brudda.
Skinny spit screen sure ain't his daddy.
well guys like Cena and Lesnar get 10 million a year Rollins Reigns and others probably 3/4 million a year so still with inflation guys make more now. Shit Hulk in the 80's was pulling in 25 million a year.
The issue is all the guys you mentioned are all at the very top of the card in the top and most wealthy wrestling company in the world. Jim's point is that back in the day most people made a decent amount.
+bluhmer1990 There is plenty of room in WWE to grow NFL NBA etc. sports leagues have a lot more guys making better money guys now for the most part now are boring or too small to be believable. Potential is there to make more now just no one is good enough to carry the company like Austin Rock or Hulk. Also a lack of good mid card guys like the WWE and somewhat what NWA had in the 80's. Just because WWE is only place to work means nothing just no one really wants to be a problem wrestler anymore.
+John Easton pro wrestler typo
WWE being the only place is a problem because now guys have to take whatever the company gives them and don't have much in terms of options so they can't say no.
your analysis overlooks the extreme reduction of the work force, the disappearance of a true middle class within that workforce, and how much more expensive it is to have to travel the country (or world) to make your bookings compared to a regional weekly territory.
So in 1952 u could buy a house a cupple off cars buy you a nice boat all that in just 1 freakin year nice ass clothing hell and for the next 5years save up like ya broke any1 ask I'M BROKE DAWG sorry hahaha
So you're comparing top guys from the past, to midcarders and independent people? Top WWE guys earn way more than the old guys did.
The jobbers might have got a sandwich and if they were real lucky, gas money.
9hundred and 24THOUSOND dollars year hahaha word liked the way Jim said it😂😂
Who the hell buys other people's checks?
Collectors
It's like this guy lives in the 80s LOL
Generations got smarter & Vince & his cartoonist presentation killed wrestling. The gift & the curse was Hogan leaving AWA because had he stayed yeah he'd probably have a small title run but his opponents were a aging Bockwinkle, and who else the next few years. Martel was too small, Kurt the same so him going to WWF was better for him in the long run. Yes it was done under devious planning but " if you don't treat your employees well they move on " Dusty's booking, Flair's same match routine, Magnum's injury, drugs killing off the WCCW just so many things that happen. It's sad because ppl like Jim love wrestling & it has become a joke 85% of any show. Nick Aldis is a credible guy but he works for a company without enough talent & face value for him to get any credit. AEW 👎 WWE has 5 credible guys and talent development but when they go to the main roster they cool off in 2 to 3 months or less. It's a shame Cornette's drive thru is more entertaining than the actual wrestling shows.
Cornette is a historian of wrestling.. why is he not in wrestling as a consultant or something?
Money Poop
The young bucks and cody Rhodes said they are making 7 figures a year that means they making more then most guys back in the day
7 figures seems a lot for the bucks. Saying that, they are booking and talent.
Yet most died broke, interesting.
If only we could get people to stop driving all these cars, we could rebuild the once lucrative horsewhip industry.
JC for president.
😂
Does Cornette think rattling off numbers for an hour is an entertaining podcast?
I could listen to Cornette read aloud the fucking phone book for an hour and be entertained!
To some people yes. Just because you don't find something "entertaining" doesn't mean other people feel the same.
Considering people find Orange Cassidy entertaining.
Taste is subjective.
Yes
beats reading your stupid comment, fool
Trump 2020 🇺🇸
Jim wants to be Vince McMahon but can't so now he wants to be mad.
jim coooooooooooornette is so kewlllllllllllll n smart ;---)
He was close. It was $19,800 for 60% of $33,000
Marciano vs joe walcott in 1953 made 2.4miion
Ppv didnt exist though...a finished Ali vs Larry Holmes made 7.3 miilion