Distilling Home Made Rum & Talking About Dunder
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- čas přidán 21. 06. 2018
- I'm excited. Today I am finally distilling homemade RUM!
A few weeks ago we made Buccaneer Bobs Rum wash and today I am going to run it through the still. I have been looking forward to homemade / home-distilled rum for a LONG TIME.
While we are at it I thought it would be a good time to have a bit of a talk about what dunder is. Dunder, dunder pits, muck and muck holes are words that get thrown around a lot. But can be hard to understand for new distillers. So lets see if we can help answer "what is dunder?".
Lastly, I need to get the second generation of buccaneer Bob's home-distilled rum making. So let's use some of the dunder from the boiler and make a new batch of rum with the leftover yeast and some new molasses!
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I love how you share so much information. In this case explaining what dunder is. Thank you for not being a dirty hold out on your info. It is this that makes your channel so great.
Thats the idea man 😀. Gotta share the love haha🥃
Ok, I must first say I enjoy watching your videos.
I represent a distillation equipment company and I am opening a rum distillery in the Virgin Islands. I also teach distilling and the virtuous cycles such as Backset cycles and the use of Dunder in rum.
Backset and Dunder are not the same things. Backset is the use of Stillage in the next or future batch. Dunder is when you take your stillage and create an uncontrolled bacterial infection with it. Rum distilleries of old just dumped the stillage in pits behind the still (the stills were usually outdoors) then they would use this muck to top off (water in the Caribbean is and always has been scarce) the fermentation. In modern use, it is usually added post fermentation but pre distillation as to not infect the fermentation but still get the funk (think Jamaican rum) of the older styles with diminished risks and modern yield.
I hope this clarifies (or funks up) the confusion.
Jason Cawthron as clear as molasses!
You feel like an perfect uncle, lol
I like it that he calls me team, i am on a team
Learning so much from you dude, it's ace. So many different elephants to it!
Lots of elephants! Cheers mate 🥃
As cool as the UJSSM is I think I've been anticipating this more. Really cool to see the BB rum process. As always, badass content Jesse!
good insight, thanks
You're so fun; thanks so much!
I was at a discount store and saw some really high quality molasses for pennies on the dollar, so I had to get it. You've given me the courage to make some Rum!
Another great episode!
Cheers 🥃
If you stand the molasses container in boiling water the molasses will transition from "heavy grease" to "gear oil" consistency at which it's easier to pour and easier to mix.
Bakers use the same technique with bread. They add a piece of the last bread into the next batch's dough to transfer some yeast and nutrients (Dunder). But live Dunder is the same as a technique where you keep a live sample of rye bread dough alive and use it to make bread every time you run out and then separate the dough back out without cooking it to keep the bacteria cultures alive.
Just started a dunder pit..... but without any backset.
I'm making a corn whiskey using 3 pounds of Walmart frozen corn (run through my Omega 900 slow auger juicer) and 2 pounds of crushed two row barley for it's diastic power, along with some AG3000 fugal amylase to help the mash convert better.
The strained out hulls from the corn and barley were added to water, along with a generous amount of molasses, and a handfull or two of crushed barley for the lactobacillus that lives on it and is often used for kettle souring beer. This was all well mixed in a stockpot, and set on a seedling mat to ferment and sour. I added my veggie and fruit scraps from the kitchen, including apple cores, bananna skins, and various trimmings, and later added some of my home brewed kefir and kombucha, and a cheese culture (propionic shermani was the only one I had). It's been fermenting nicely, with a rich yeasty sour smell, and in a week or so, I'll strain out all the solids.
This should make a nice dunder, if not an authentic Jamaican rum dunder, it should lend some funk when added to my rum wash before distillation. The rum backset will go into the dunder pit, which will be continued. I may try using some of this in my corn whiskey if I like the results from the rum.
Absolutely love your videos - worth watching just to hear your demented laugh. Curious as to your feelings or intentions going forward about incorporating a thumper. Keep up the great work.
Yeah I think I will do it at some stage. I do tend to prefer just running a strip run though. I guess that may change if I get a thumper.
Am just starting this an I enjoying it so far!
Awesome. Let us know how it turns out !
....oh....did you mean starting a wash? Or starting to get into the hobby?
You are an absolute wizard of distilling. I was feeling the same type of wonder when I was getting into arpanet (the internet) back in the late 80,s and early 90's. Though, sometimes I think I'll be able to grow my own pot plants before I'll be able to legally distill legally. I can't wait to see your rum tastings. Awesome, dude!
No way man. I am still a padawan.
Heh, yeah you are not wrong. Im happy you will be able to grow your pot plants if you so choose and I hope stills go the same way soon!
Good stuff Jesse
Looking forward to further following this process and seeing how your rum turns out
And remember Marmites Mighty Stuff 👍😎
Cheers
Pete
Marmite or Vegemite. . . . 🤣
Still It
Marmite 👍
It's only rum if it comes from the Rum region of the Caribbean, otherwise it's just sparkling fermented sugar.
Hahahahahaha
very very fun activity
It is indeed!
Nice vid, we’ll done
Disclaimer: No elephants were harmed in the making of this video. :D LOL Jesse you crack up.
I found putting my black strap in relatively hot water ( my hot water is really hot, so might want to heat some on a stove a bit) for a period of time, makes it come out of the container easier.
Yes Jessie you never talked about throwing away the foreshots. I made my rum 2 weeks ago and only got 2 liters of Rum after cuting it with water out of 25 liters pale.
Hi Jesse,
You should turn over the aluminium power regulator so that it has the cooling fins pointing up. You are now trapping the heat inside the "radiating" part of the aluminium (heat moves up).
I use the same one and mounted a small fan on it. It keeps it nice and cool during the run, which greatly extends it lifespan
Thanks dude. That's a really good point. I'm going to build a little enclosure for it. And pop a fan in it.
Expecting a spirit run soon. Now u know what rum taste i was talking about
Distilling newbie here, doing some fact finding before embarking on my virgin journey. Love the channel, it is by far the most accessible resource for a beginner i have come across. What are your thoughts on BBs recommendation to use cloth to filter out fusel oils during the stripping run? I didn't see any mention of it in your video and wondered if you didn't think it necessary or if some other step made it obsolete?
So ya thanks.
I might add gat a barrel . With a pour spout. Sort of sterile add spent wash in it every time still hot, ferment a run add half to it from barrel. Repeat replace half bbl at end of run.
Nice goal!
I'm so pumped for these videos. Just curious what the use of the lemon is for? Does lemon help raise the pH? Or is it used as a nutrient? I was under the impression that dunder itself is high pH so lemon maybe wasn't as necessary? Awesome work man, we are so thankful for these videos.
Yeah lemon for pH adjustment. I will drop them next round. But seeing as it's the first go round with dunder it's not that acidic yet. I probably could have left them out now. But I was not going to push it over the edge.
Ain't no such thing as tricky. Chur!
The way I deal with the Dunder in the still is to add about 15-20% of it to my next wash then reduce 8-10 litres of it down to 2lts on the stove and freeze that, then next stripping run defrost that concertante and add it to the still. If you use to much Dunder in your wash you run the risk of the wash stalling or going really slow.
I use hand blender to aerate! Goes like crazy if you do
My current wash is 4L molasses, 2kg brown sugar, 2L of off the shelf pineapple juice (mainly for the acid) and 25L of water. I use a couple of litres of the last wash to start the next one.
Nice
Informative but my oh my that moonshine laugh...... He HEE!
Try using a paint stirring whisk in a drill, mix’s really quick and get lots of oxygen into the mix!
Hi and so thx for this video , i have to know , At what temperature does your machine start to distill, and the first drops are spilled?
Cheers to you too. I'm in Kentucky in the USA. When I was 8 years old, 1987, my family distilled a large quantity of bourbon whiskey. To drink non bourbon in these parts is punishable by death. Long story short, it was only supposed to be aged in a dozen oak casks until 1997. A whole bunch of ugly shit went down in my family. It's now about to be May 2024 and it still sits in the cellar. Most of the bad blood is gone because nearly all of them are dead. Hoping 2025 will be the year. Cheers.
cool stuff jess, but i am so green at this i have been chucking the stuff at the bottum of my bucket and the stuff left over after the stilling. so now i have a new step to try thanks.
Both are optional so it's really up to you mate.
Depending on the recipe it may be worth "washing" your yeast to remove some crud. Good it if your interested. The home Brewers will have you covered 🥃
Dont kill elephant! :D Thanks for these :)
Btw, can anybody else imagine AC/DC singing “Dirty deeds and the Dunder Pits”?!
The first 250 ml foreshot on the start I throw away, just to be save than sorry
Try a couple of drops olive oil on whatever spatula spoon you're going to move the Molasses with good luck hope it helps
Huh that's a good idea dude!
I’ve done a version of this without dunder. Since I’ve never heard of it til now but I’m going to try it. Also just curious what the lemon does? My next go round I will try to follow this process closer
In the second distillation do you remove the heads?
Have you considered attaching your parrot and adding s valve to the bottom for pulling heads and draining your parrot? That’s how I’m set up. I really like it.
Yeah that's smart dude. If I was going to use it for spirit runs I would do that. But I will likely just use it for strips at this stage.
What watt elements are you use for you keg
Are you going to keep some of the backset/Dunder and let it ferment naturally to make some live dunder? Would love to hear your thoughts!
How long should it take for the dark wash to turn clear?
So let me get this straight... Dunder is the name of the elephant, whom you killed because he was a cannibal. Is that right? I'll be honest, I was a little distracted during the video.
Exactly! I'm glad someone understands me 🤣
arrrrgh matey. good job fighting off the scurvey
Garrrrrr. Never trust a man sober enough to risk scurvy!
You thought of using baking molasses in place of black strap?
Hey man, loving your channel! I'm learning loads from you and everyone else on Reddit and the home distiller forum. I'm still quite the noob, and have read tons, but this is my first question into the giant discussion of home distilling. What I can't seem to find is any solid answer about how to begin the actual molasses run (either spirit or stripping)... did you take the wash straight from the fermentation vessel into the still, or as some suggest, to preheat the wash and leave it settle for a few days? I'm having nightmares of running a wash and ending up with a still full of tar. Yikes! Would love to get a pro tip on that.
Haha yeah I hear you on that one mate. A good portion of the sugars should have fermented out (although not as much as most other recipies). So it's not going to be nearly as sticky as before.
I just let mine settle for a day or two after fermentation is done ....or I don't haha.... Then right into the boiler. I don't pre heat just straight in there.
My only concern is scortching. But that should be fine unless you are using a very concentrated heat source. The other is puking. . . . Don't fill the still too full with rum ;)
Do you run foreshots/heads through the parrot?
Hey Jesse, in either of your runs - stripping or spirit, did you have any packing in your column? I don't think you used reflux either on the rum, but just to confirm, you did a straight open (no packing, no reflux) strip and spirit run on this?
What is that a yoga mat u wrap around the column?
what is the name of that copper vessel (beaker) where the hydrometer is??
Have you considered an oxygenating stone and a pump for oxygenating the wort/mash? I know some homebrewers use that method.
Yeah for sure man. I have. I may get one at some stage, if only to be able to expose a few more people too it.
What should the gravity of the dunder be, compared to the FG of the wash it came from?
So i was in the process of distilling my first bach of rum, following along with your video, 25l still just got up to temperature then the bloody drain tap falls off my still. What a damn mess haha. Managed to save half of it and somehow (im not even sure how i got it there) get most of the rest down the sink. Its all over the white walls, down the cupboards and even got some carpet to clean up. Nevertheless, i will get a new tap and continue tomorrow. Might even look into getting a stainless ball valve to replace the plastic not so fantastic factory tap...
Interesting stuff. Never made rum!
Yeah it's interesting all right. Can't wait for spirit run!
Had a rum wash that didn’t clear worth a damn. Should I use the dunder from this run to add colour/flavour? BTW, excellent channel Jesse!
On a more serious note, are you going to make a rum essence to proof down your distillate? Or are you using the Dunder?
Let me just paste an official definition here:
"Dunder. Caribbean term for the non-volatile residue from rum distillation, which during storage supports the growth of a mixture of micro-organisms. When stored dunder is added with yeast to a subsequent fermentation, these organisms provide a richer flavour to the rum than would yeast alone."
So yeah, what's left from the stripping run is going into next fermentation because it's so rich in year nutrients. Those spent washes (another term from whisky industry) are sitting in a huge wooden vat somewhere under the sky and slowly wildly fermenting and doing all kinds of funky stuff live organisms do in warm and nutrient-rich environment. This is then only added to dark heavy rum washes like your Jamaican or Guyana rums, while light rums (light Bacardi, Havana club etc) are not using anything like that.
Historically it was just a way to optimise production. Nowadays the reason is simple - light rums are using pure yeast strains to produce light and pure taste without many weird acids and esters (aroma-flavour components). Dark rums are using both pure and wild yeasts and other bacteria to get as complex aroma and taste as possible. Complex - could sometimes mean off-putting, btw. Also usually they might keep pure yeasts at bay for first several days by having high acidity of the wash and\or (relatively to optimal yeast's) low temp, so that more esters are developed initially and also some believe that making pure yeast struggle a bit and fight for nutrients with other yeast is making better-tasting alcohol in the end.
Gday Jesse . Love you channel mate .
I am making my version of buccaneer bobs rum with dunder and molasses which is pretty bloody good . But then again I may be a wee bit biassed 😁😁.
I would like your thoughts on sg readings with all that stuff in the wash . I get 1160 with 10 ltrs of dunder - 16 kg raw sugar - 3 ltrs blackstrap molasses in a 60 ltr wash . Finish is 1100 sg .
My yield is around 7 ltrs .
What do you reckon .
Cheers
Bill
At first I was like "what's this dude know about rum?" But then I heard the accent and thought, "He come from the land of dunder"......see what I did there?
Abhhhhhhh hahahahahaha ok. That's it. Officially the best dad joke in a still it comment so far!
You're too kind...I appreciate your site, because you are handling some technical stuff in an approachable way, and the bit about "plastic" was funny, because reading the forums about plastic is a guilty pleasure, like watching a bar fight from the sidelines...
Hehe yeah dude!
my man bob, how much is it roughly to make rum at home. im talking cheap as possible but a nice taste x
Killing elephants is bad 😂. I'm not a big fan of rum but another good video man 🍻
Hahaha well I enjoyed it. I can see why people could object though 🤣🤣
Funnily enough this tastes very little like the rum I have had in the past (mostly Bacardi). I'm going to have to get a bottle of some jamacin style pot stilled rum to try.
Just pour molasses in, no need to ladle it
I like the drinking part of the craft. I wonder if you've lost this...
@ 9:12 you started to get it wrong. Whether you use dunder fresh or aged, use it as a water replacement. Use more or less as you like, it helps to develop the rum oil. Also, after that you started to refer to dunder as back set after you explained it well enough?
Molasses wash = rum= dunder
Grain wort = whisky = backset
Cheers
Thats exactly how I have been doing it. Did a lot of searching and reading in the beginning (about 6 years ago) like Jessie. These days I just do a basic transfer of the last 3 inches of my 30l wash to the next wash to kick it off. Then I use the ends of my distill runs to flavour the next runs. My 12 month kegged product now is almost indistinguishable from Pusers blue label, which I am pretty happy about because I like that rum.
Hey Bob
Great little film
Thanks for sharing
Thinking of getting a still for my robobrew
To make bourbon, rum, pastice, and gin
Looking at T500 or alembic in copper with a copper condenser
Any thoughts please
Thanks again
Cheers
I have the alembic dome with the pot still condenser and it works great. Sipping on a great Gin right now. Much easier than the reflux column.
An inexpensive way to get into distilling, a little over $200 on Amazon and you are off and running.
I wonder how it would turn out if I freeze concentrated it
I may be wrong but I thought fermenting at a higher temperature produces more esters so 19 degrees seems too low.
Yeah, I'm trying 25c for the second generation. Hoping for a bit more banana.
Sounds like the r equivalent of sour mash or sourdough
Do you push your cap down every day ? Or just leave it alone ?
If I run a rum wash through a Reflux , will it taste like rum ?
I’m still sitting on this fermentation. Delivery service lost my molasses in the mail :(. So I sound 20kg of raw cane sugar and cooked up a batch of home made molasses. Had a SG of 1.102 so I can’t wait to see what I get out of it.
Awesome! Live the commitment :)
Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this one vs the one you do when the molasses turns up!
OoooooOOOOooHHHHhhhhh. YYYEEEEeeeAAAaaaHHH
This guy's has had a rum or two 🥃🤣
@@StillIt I've had some right now too and only from the vibe you had in this video I've decided to go ahead and do some rum now when my still is done. Pirates rule
Where can I find that recipie?
Like a happy Ron Swanson 😂
I shal take that as a compliment haha
🍻
Molasis raw sugar hot water stir add coconut water 3 4 litres fill to 23 litres or so add yeast when temp is cool enough wait few days distill then add contents to wood chips keep in a place where it will be relatively cool one part of the day warmer in arvos thus aging process the longer the better and darker the rum i used charred cubes and rods in my buckets.
can you share a more precise recipe? what are charred cubes?
when I use a reflux still, I dont get much taste. If I need flavor I use a coil.
Hopefully mine should taste a like a Bundybear rum. Atleast a cheap one anyway.
This does not taste anything like Bundy. Bundy, to me at least, is more on the sweet molasis side of things. No funk or crazy esters. This is trying to be more like Rum Fire, or any of the other pot stilled funky Jamacan rums.
am i missing the link for the recipe?
where did you get the big bucket of molasses from ?
This is feed grade molasses from farmlands. Looks like they don't add anything nasty to the feed stuff here.
How much was that bucket of molasses mate? 20 litres?
Ahhh I think it was $70
First search Wiki had an easy to understand definition. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunder
Agreed, thats actually a great write up. But have a look around at what newbies are asking.
And a few other things to ponder. No right or wrong answers. Just talking points etc.
Have you come across info in other places that contradict that?
Would you trust a answer wiki gave you on how to run a still?
I also hazard a guess that you have a decent amount of understanding before you made that Google search?
Cheers 😀🥃
Are there poisonous ketones and aldehydes, do we separate them ....?
Looks like a great first run!
You can never go wrong buying ingredients in bulk!
So I have a question, and idea.
Question: so you do a stripping run of generation 1. You ferment out gen 2. How do you mix these in the second run? Do They stay separate, do we mix some and then keep gen 1, and gen 2 for gen 3? I am guessing there is no right answer here, or maybe their is.
Ok idea....
I was reading a bunch of mash bills. I am a bourbon / whiskey kind of guy. Hey don't judge. :-)
So most out there run a 70 to 80 percent corn, with barely and rye making up the rest. Makers Mark uses no rye, but wheat.
Has anyone tried a recipe for sour mash with mostly wheat, but a little rye to give it some bite? Honestly I haven't seen any major distillery with that bill. Might be worth trying, even if it is a trial run. Perhaps the rye would.squash any flavor from the wheat. I honestly don't know. Great work Jesse! You said Marmite! Good stuff Hahahaha
How's it going mate. Yep you can use it as you want really. Add the low wines into the next run, collect low wines up over a 3-5 runs then do a all low wines run. Or just run spirit runs from the get go. Up to you really :).
Interesting question mate. I would be Keen to taste that for sure. Honestly it's not something I have looked into a whole lot. So I don't really!
Well then that would make some interesting cuts for sure. There is a mother few sets if videos to be sure. Which is better, what are the differences, oh the options!
I will keep my eye out for more recipes. Again sour mash can be all corn or a combination.
Now if they would only legalize it in California! I got so many ideas!! :-)
Yeah dude, I so hope it goes legal for you guys. It would mean such a boom in the hobby!
There are some all wheat whiskys and some mostly wheat with a little barley. Commercial ones
I'm still a noob but I've done an uncrushed wheat (straight from the harvester) sour mash, 3gens approx 10-20% backset, adding low wines back to each run so final product '2.5 x distilled' (I think) 'aged' on ex wine barrel oak or oak cubes 10g/L for 2ish months. Still only a few months old but very smooth and mild tasting (almost Irish in style) even at 55%! Very sippable but not quite top shelf yet 🤔 but then I'm trying to aim for $100-150ish/bottle quality mark (I know I'm dreaming but gotta aim somewhere)
Why are you using lemons / extra lemons and backset? Backset is already a source of acidity no?
Why you are covering your still with Blankets, whats the reason behind that?
Just made some rum myself with my first generation dunder having aged for 1 year. Let's see what happens after oak aging
Oh nice man....the dunder has been going for a year?
Still It more like I left it in a jug and forgot about it for a year
Hahahaha nice man!
but that laugh though
I use the reflux for vodka.
Holly chit is that jesse
Why can't the sugar(syrup) go in at the same time? Put the lid on and shake that bucket to get the oxygen in. Then pitch your yeast.
First video ive watched...what is the 'parrot' how does it work
Its just a way to float a hydrometer so you can see what proof/abv spirit you are producing in real time.
One other thing I found out through a mistake. I didn't let my spirit cool to 60 degrees before cutting it and a couple of days later i tested what I thought was 45% ended being only 32% ABV
Look up hydrometer temp correction I'm guessing that's your problem
So why dont you use dady yeast bro it would up your abv and make more spirits or alcohol since u strip anyways im wondering why the low abv yeast flavor or something
My passion is flavour from ferment. Even for vodka/gin I enjoy the flavour that's carried over from the ferment.
If your going to do that you need to minimize the "bad" flavours and max the "good" to start with. Pushing abv higher gets more economy, but it does tend to make that min/max harder.
Also, honestly this was a while ago now haha.
Cheers
I've been to NZ didn't see any elephants.... did you kill them all?
Nothing but birds here mate. Oh, one bat and a lizard haha
@@StillIt You kidding, you have the nightmare... the Weta!
Haha, dude weta are cool man!
Zach galafanakis has a hobby
Feeding your yeast with dead ones? Aren't you worried about mad yeast disease? 😄
Dunder dundee
ha haha hahahaha hahahaha. Dude that got a proper chuckle. Thats not a dunder pit, THIS is a dunder pit!