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How Do You Know Whether or Not You're Overtraining? The Science
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2020
- Overtraining is a common problem with serious cyclists. How can you tell whether or not you're overtraining and how should you arrange your training to avoid it.
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Studies I used in this video:
link.springer.com/article/10....
link.springer.com/article/10....
link.springer.com/article/10....
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Ci...
europepmc.org/article/med/966...
www.frontiersin.org/articles/...
Have you pushed yourself to the point of overtraining? How long did it take to recover?
Yes, i need 4 days bed rest at hospital and 3 months off training
A full month one week off the bike and three to build up .
Yes, many times when I was younger. I'd need a few weeks off back then to get well. Poor nutrition and too much life stress were huge factors at the time. Now my nutrition is perfect and my life a little more stable so I get to the point of over reaching but not over training. I increase my sleep, take a day off, have an easier training week , and then I'm usually good again.
latif kuncoro hospital? That sounds serious. What was the diagnosis? This wasn’t just acute exhaustion/dehydration after a single event for example?
I think I’m there right now, but my symptoms aren’t exactly what you’ve listed. High HR while my power is 85 watts lower than it should be. I’ve basically taken over 2 weeks off the bike, with a very light ride twice to see how things are, and it’s not gotten better. Question though, can I still do upper body weights while I cope with this? Or should I skip that as well
This baby-faced kid single handedly became the most useful and interesting CZcams channel for ambitious cyclists. One great video after another.
I don’t think he even sells himself this way but he is actually part of a very important coaching legacy in cycling history.
I feel like at this point we are just taking Dylan's video quality for granted because his work ethic is so consistent.
Race report from a 205 pound 43 year old with only 18 months of cycling under my belt. Started with a Zwift training plan and after two months I became fatigued and sick. Did a search and found Dylan had just published his video explaining the issues with Zwift workouts.
Took several weeks off and instead turned to Sufferfest (slightly modified per Dylan videos to include a long zone 2 workout on weekends with only two or three interval workouts per week.). Had a recovery week every three or four weeks.
FTP results were : ftp had a continuous climb over one year from 225 watts to 327 currently.
Race results: first real gravel race (this July as our race season has mostly been unaffected by Covid) of 35 miles I hit the podium beating 50 others. Many who had years/decades of training, more annual miles, and carbon bikes (I rode 32 pound steel Surly Straggler with entry level components.)
I've watched every one of Dylan's videos as they are posted and followed his simple science based advice. Impossible to pick my favorite but in my case the "make hard days hard and easy days easy" plus following tips regarding recovery are maybe his most important and easily implemented mantras. Thanks Dylan and we need to get you to the 150 mile Maah Daah Hey cross country mountain bike race next month in Medora, ND. You have a free SAG and scout driver to assist anytime! Course is gorgeous and in amazing shape.
I’m a 54 yo man. Two years ago I weighed 206 lbs.at 6’ tall. Today after two years in the bike I weigh 183 lbs and my fitness is such that I regularly beat the younger guys on my mtn, bike. The best gains are my blood pressure was pre hypertension two years ago and today it’s typically 110 over 68 and my resting heart rate is in the mid 40s. Yesterday, trying for. KOM my heart rate maxed at 174. If I had Dylan’s knowledge “back in the day” ?....... as far as over training, as I age my recovery takes a bit longer therefore I’m sure to eat healthy and SLEEP SLEEP SLEEP. GOOD SLEEP IS KEY
That is awesome.
BHD: take a drink of busch light every time you hear the word training in this video
Clear sign of overtraining: speeding up this video
Haha, I usually do that and yes, often to save time to train 😃!
I don’t have time to overtrain, but I have had a hard time working in recovery riding with a busy schedule. The solution was to buy a baby seat for my mountain bike. Now I can ride for 15 km in an hour and it puts a set of twins down for a nap at the same time. Winning at the recovery game
To be honest......I learn x100time more from you than from my coach
lol Pay D.J then instead.
Dump the coach then and find a better one
One can dig a big hole if not careful, some of the best advice given to me when I was younger was "you can't peak all year, rest hard, take time and the gains will come"!
I raced as a teenager (a long time ago) and managed to overtrain once pretty badly. I started to plateau, and then get worse with more training, like sinking into a valley. Got dropped in a practice race by people that were normally way slower than me. The slightest climb would send my heartrate soaring - over 200. I just felt wrong. IIRC resting pulse went up too. An older bike club member gave me a training book with the chapter on overtraining bookmarked. It convinced me to take a week completely off the bike. After a week I went on a ride with a friend of mine, Senior 1, strong rider. It was like a miracle. Suddenly I was super strong again and we had a great time racing up the climbs and sprinting at the usual spots. I was told by many I was doing too many miles for my age. In retrospect, I think I just needed to take a rest week here and there. Nobody did that then, except the traditional week or two off in December. Maybe that story will help somebody.
Thank you for making this video. Some of the science presented is pretty mind opening. It's clear that much has been discovered since the 80's.
And yet another fantastic learning session. Thanks, Dylan.
Always worth my time to watch your videos Dylan, thank you for all the work you put into them! Love the science and how you help interpret it all
Hey Dylan, congratulations on the videos! I found your channel abou two weeks ago and since then I've been marathoning the whole series... I'm addicted to the content!
Great video Dylan and thanks. The points around sleep, zone 2 and autonomic nervous system hit home.👍👍
I've been thinking I've been doing too much so I've been taking it easy for the past few weeks! Great video.
This was excellent & helpful! Thanks Dylan!
Awesome information Dylan. I have my self experienced over training not long ago and I can totally rely on what u re saying.
I always get something useful from Dylan. It is extremely helpful that he uses science to back up what he tells us.
Excellent words of wisdom! Your knowledge is very interesting and your videos are fantastic, and have become a core part of my training program. High quality content indeed! Thank you!
Incredibly informative video. Needed to see this…Thank you!
your stuff is fantastic Dylan , and cap back dylans hilarious only been cycling 3 years and all ready know lots of cap back dylans ,they have lots to say about TTFU lmao, anyway just needed to say thanks and i really appreciate your good advice and hard work you put in each video , keep them coming buddy ,like i said FANTASTIC
seriously useful information, thanks!
Really important video. Thanks for this.
Wow that was a useful video, thanks Dylan!
Great job, as usual. Thank you, Dylan
Really like your videos Dylan, they are very informative. 👍
excellent info. Thx Dylan
Nice work with the research. Thanks for the informative video.
Good information. Thanks for this! Over the years I've come to recognize my own signs of over-training; they typically include an increase in irritability and trouble sleeping at night, to more severe cases leading to digestive issues. Sometimes the most difficult thing for an athlete to do is take time off and rest. One of the myriad disadvantages of being human, I guess.
so good. The science coverage is excellent
Awesome info!👍
Love the HTFU comment! spent most of my life overtrained.... great insights! I learned the hard way....
Awesome video man
There cannot be a more informative, factual and pragmatic insight into training than this channel. There is not bullshit 'my-way' it's just evidence, fact and zero judgement. Great work Dylan.
Glad to have stumbled across this. From what I have read it relates to my situation, and have noticed a great level of fatigue and decline in my power by 30 watts. The Zwift ramp test had my FTP really high, so made my zone 2 workouts more stressful than they needed to be, which accumalated more uneccessary stress on my system. I did the 20minute test and there was a significant difference in FTP scores, and related to my heart rate would've been a more suitable level to complete zone 2 work. So if you are in any doubt by an FTP score, check and make sure it relates to your HR zones to ensure you aren't over working. Its simple but does help.
Great stuff as always. Thank you.
one of the best vids so far
This video explained some things I have been experiencing. Got some homework to do.
Thanks for posting man!
Great quality, informative and *evidence based*
A true savior
Good video, thank you. I am now going to plan a recovery week.
Really interesting, hadn't seen the hierarchical breakdown of over-training types before. Personally I find that you can detect "sympathetic over-training" pretty easily - you don't need endochrine system testing, you can just tell if you're run down and struggle with higher intensity efforts etc
that's it, I'm subscribing and hitting the bell button!
Holy crap! I went on a ride in the foothills that could definitely be described as over-reaching. I was wiped, but made it. Took a week off just out of exhaustion/lack of motivation and when I came back I was handling my local hills better than ever. I think I did this accidentally!
Noice.
Great info, thanks.
Hey Dylan. Thanks for another great video. I’ve been here since the start and you somehow manage to keep producing really good stuff. Possible topic for a future video: why does the first workout after a recovery week always feel terrible? What is the science of what’s going on?
After taking 6 years off of the bike, I put a plan together based on your videos. My FTP has gone up 20% in the last 4 months. Not sure how racing will go later this spring, but more importantly I have a sustainable plan that will last year-round. Going to incorporate weight lifting this fall now that I'm over 40, too. Already looking forward to next year.
Love your content Dylan, it's such a great help for me trying to improve all aspects of my road cycling. I'm not a racer but have been trying to adopt a more structured training plan the past couple of months so I can hopefully complete some big rides and climbs in autumn and next spring. I'm trying to build up my base, but as I'm not going to be racing I'm not sure how long my base training period should last?
I would still do a 3 month base period. Good luck!
Check out TrainerRoad. This is a $20 online subscription platform primarily focused for indoor riding, but the workouts can also be done outside. You can also create a customized training plan. Might be worth a look. Ride on!
Well synthesised!
veery helpful , thanks !
Dylan, Please take bow and pat yourself on the back. Great video! Based on your content it is clear to me that I need to enjoy some Zone 2 rides on Zwift the next couple days.
Great video Dylan, important thing especially for younger riders. Now are times to train smart not super hard.
But after reading title, first things that comes to my mind was David Goggins shouting YOU UNDERTRAINED BOY !
Maciej Ziobro : Definitely not. David Goggins badly overtrained himself years ago. So much so that he had to take years off from taking physical exercise completely. Now he is healthy and back exercising but he carefully monitors his resting heart rate every morning and if it is elevated he makes sure to only do low intensity work. He discusses this in detail in one of his podcasts with Joe Rogan. Overtraining is real and it has brought even the hardest and most determined athletes to their knees.
@@paddyotoole2058 Thanks man, I you are right. I am not joking from overtraning, its real thing and can be really dangerous.
I am joking about people who didnt train regularly and dont have any aim or dont even train hard and they are worried about being overtrained. Of course they can in short period of time but most of them just dont want to put work into training and finding excuses.
Great video Dylan, as always. I think I've just over-reached over the weekend, so I'm planning some rest for this week. I would like to know when you talk about Zone 2, which of the zone systems do you refer to? It was confusing for me to find out recently that there are many of them, 3 Zone, 5 Zone, 7 Zone systems, and more. Thanks
Thanks Dylan. May need to go more for zone 2 as I've been going hard on the trainer lately
When we are referring to Zone 2 here, what exactly do we mean? 3/5/7 zone model? Are we saying below 70% TH? Below 80% TH?
@@dylankennedy8140 below 70%. I've been riding on a 5 zone model but realised even though FTP has gone up, work tends to be mostly muscular and not aerobic. (Low cadence by default). Trying to bring aerobic back in to build endurance again.
@@MzarMo Interesting - I don't know if changing your cadence will really change your aerobic capacity...if I've read that correctly. I would be interested to hear how adding more zone 2 to your work goes for you and how much intensity you balance it with. Good luck with it!
Around a month to recover properly, done it twice now! I've never used power meters or anything scientific but I found my commute was taking longer each day, no matter how hard I tried to keep my speed up I just couldn't do it. Also when I was boxing when I was younger, I found I was tired, slow, lacking power. A combination of hard work (I do a physical manual job), too much training, not enough food and probably the wrong food too.
great video! I really enjoy the depth of your videos and how much work you put into them!
now if there may be a video for lazy couch potatoes that get out for a ride only on weekends and then complain about their FTPs .. :)
Glad you touched on diet. I have tried fasting with a view of losing weight. The results are fatigue and slow recovery on lower volume of training. Fasting maybe isn’t a good idea for me anyway
Same for me
I love your videos! Due to over training, I suffered from iliotibial band syndrome (ITBS), which continues from time to time till this day (about 8 months ago). Can you make a video about it? Thanks!
Good info
Very interesting video once again!
Question: how does strength training (lifting) fit in with your advice about two (three) hard days per week? How does strength training affect the ANS?
You are an ace bruh!
I've been cycling since 2017. Mostly hobby level touring.
Did some bigger tours (600 km in 2 weeks, 400 km in 5 days) and never ever have I thought of overtraining.
I was slow but I also could do a few hundred km each month, record being 800+ km in a certain September.
Fast forward to 2024. This should have been THAT year when I do structured training from the beginning to the end of the cycling season (here it starts around April and lasts 'till October, maybe November).
All was good until I started doing Zone 4 (Steady state) intervals while I excessively increased my weekend mileage AND inserted an extra day of shorter Z2 ride.
In parallel with the - serious - increase in intensity of the Wednesday rides, total distance jumped by 29 % compared to previous month. And this is at age 42 (!)
After the first week I had a Gran Fondo failure which I blamed on several factors that led me to early glycogen depletion, plus tha later heat and bad road conditions.
One week later, another failure. This time I did my slowest ever tour, having to push the bike on certain (horizontal!) portions of the road. Still blamed it on the heat.
3 days later I'm in the gym for the 3rd interval session of the block. To my surprise, I barely could reach Z2 intensity and almost couldn't finish a 60 min session, easily underperforming the program.
It's been another 3 days since then and my legs are still jelly.
I'm kinda panicked whether this will incapacitate me for the whole season.
PS for those who think there can be early symptoms: during the whole decline, I eat normally and my sleep was at least OK. In this last week it was even better than usual.
of 748 on GFNY my last race, to 38 my post on GFNY FLORIDA Just watching your videos, I believe that next year I win ...Thanks Dylan
The point you get to overtraining or over reaching is a moving target throughout your cycling “career”.
I'm currently in an "over reaching" block. Feeling pretty damn tired, but I can still push the pedals. Got a nice rest week coming in 6 days time to see if I can reap the benefits...
new DJ lets goooooo
I love backward hat guy @Dylan Johnson
Years ago, a friend of mine was working full time and on a (quite good) team in amateur racing. She was confused that her performance was going down despite all the hours she was putting in. I was shocked. Just miles and mile of junk. No wonder she crashed and burned. Took a couple weeks off, then added short intense, rest days, and skills work. She killed it in the end of the season
Great stuff! I'm pretty happy I found your channel! Keep these high quality, science based with just the right amount of humor videos coming.
Thank´s, very important information. I hit the wall a couple of years ago after an very intense period of training mix of cycling and weights. And now my body seem to have a memory of this. If I just push it a bit to hard, my muscle and joints start to hurts and my energy gets very low, like I have gotten some kind of neurological disease. The problem is my ego and fucking Strava. When you are in your best form and starting push really good times, then you push it a bit more and then you totally hit the wall again and must stay of the bike for 2 to 3 months. The problem is the ego.
a month ago i did a ride and my heart rate was a Zone 4-5 and my power was at Zone 2... this prompted me to take my first week off the bike since December. then i had a couple low volume weeks and i am now in the process of getting back in to my regular training. hoping t peak again around September when all the postponed gravel races start!
Awesome info as usual, Dylan. I’ve been reading a book called Core Advantage by Tom Danielson and it has helped me improve overall performance and comfort on the bike. What’s your take on core training and its advantages?
Hi Dylan
Excellent video as always. What do think of HRV as a measure of overtraining?
Check out the video I did on it a few weeks back.
I hit the wall very young. Trained near maximum every day during my runs. Sucks. Rest does not help. It's hard to find help for this affliction. Thank you for the video.
Yo, Dylan, nice work👍. However, this is all well and good, but what are the symptoms of undertraining. Can you you do a vid on that.
PS I've run out of Hypergain Max, can you do an offer, preferably on diet chocolate bubblegum birthday cake - delish!
symptoms include feeling fresh, but still being slow haha
No fitness progression, weight gain and the use of tampons.
I think BHD has already put out a video on this topic 🤔
When I was younger I used to almost only train intervals (4-5 times a week) to the point that I got in great shape -> got sick repeat.
Nowadays I keep it to about 2 inervals a week and a lot of zone 2 training. I have never gotten sick from training since. The main things that help me to recover are foam roller, eating high carb food as I finish/right after a workout and a lot of sleep.
I'd imagine if you're an experienced athlete who are atuned to your body, you'd definitely know when you have overtrained; it'd be hard to not notice. The question is: are you willing to listen to your body? or will you simply ignore it.
As a long-time coach of elite cyclists, experienced athletes definitely get over trained and generally have no clue. There are many reasons for this but one is chemical. Overtraining causes you to think poorly. I call it inverted judgment. They do pretty much everything badly because their body is basically drugging them due to overtraining. Being attuned to your body is fine until overtraining makes you think down is up and up is down. That’s one important reason they have a coach.
Tom Ehrhard I’m not sure that I agree, I think Chau hit the nail on the head - I think the majority of people are very well aware that they are over trained in that they feel tired and workouts are a struggle and they’re having to push themselves and feeling fatigued. The disconnect comes in many forms - a simple love of their chosen exercise, a fear that stopping pushing themselves like this will actually lead to detraining, simple patterned habits and routine adherence, or (if they were previously overweight) in gaining weight, or in them losing their identity as a cyclist/triathlete or any other of a number of factors. It’s also hard to give up the endorphin “exercise high” and many platforms are deliberately engineered to gamify and reward pushing yourself - Strava segments and PRs, training peaks peak performances, Zwift mileage goals and jerseys etc etc. The reasons people keep pushing are complex, but I don’t think that not noticing they are over trained is the issue.
X X: The point is that overtraining tends to changes your judgment, and not for the good. Note how Dylan talks about mood changes that you may need a partner or coach to identify. Many of the things you discuss can also occur but true overtraining can lead to a number of mood-altering substances being released into an athlete’s system that changes how they think. It’s well-documented and studied and is the body’s reaction to systemic stress. Some athletes can catch themselves when overreaching, but true overtraining is a different animal that typically requires aggressive outside intervention.
@@tommyrq180 it would be interesting to conduct a poll of triathletes/cyclists with these questions:
1. do you feel that you've overtrained?
2. do you take a break when you've felt you've overtrained or do you simply push yourself through?
The poll is not meant to be scientific nor rigorous, but it will reveal what percentage of athletes willingly drive themselves further despite feeling fatigue. I'm willing to bet that a big segment of athletes do this.
Chau Nguyen: It’s complicated because each athlete is unique. I can just tell you at the elite level we study this very carefully because it’s so dangerous and we know many of the warning signs. Some athletes can control it fairly well but most are very competitive and require a strong advisory team because although they “know their body,” their kinesthetic and other senses become distorted when they overtrain and to emphasize the point, many top athletes when fully diagnosed as overtrained will attempt to return too early and aggressively. Again, coachability (the athlete) and good coaching and advising is required to navigate the period of what I call “inverted judgment.” Some elite athletes never fully recover and fade away after one bout of true overtraining, and I find that tragic and avoidable. So beware of the siren song of “just listen to your body.” It might not work out! N=1 YMMV warning!
Hey Dylan love this video definitely helped me rethink my training week, my new one is a vo2 max workout on tuesday, rest on wednesday then threshold intervals on thursday rest on friday then saturdaya and sundays are long group rides where the intensity is determined by the lead rider (turns out to be a sprint race sometimes) and then monday is a rest day do you think i should change up my week or leave it as is, any reply would be super helpful TIA!
If every ride is at the same very high intensity and you are severely overtrained, you just might be a triathlete. 🤪
Well I follow my training status via Strava's Fitness and Freshness option. Also I use Elevate App on Google Chrome. Those ways use heart rate and powermeter data to calculate fitness, fatigue and freshness. But sometimes numbers are not the answer. We have to listen our body.
Problem with Strava is when you ride hard and get a high relative effort, that's how it increases your fitness score. When I've used it my fitness score kept going up and up despite me riding hard all the time pretty much everyday and probably overtraining so in reality it was not increasing
2 years ago Strava fitness level jumps big when you ride hard but nowadays adds less numbers to your fitness level. Fitness level is important for fatigue level and sometimes it causes you to more train if you stick to numbers and thought I had to go hard on this one. My fitness and freshness level -25, -30 and those numbers are overtraining level for me. Well I can say just listen your body and don't go hard everytime. Somedays just ride for joy and go easy. Eating is so important by the way but carbs and proteins not helpfull sometimes. Vegetables, fruits, soda and sleeping well is the key.
I am pretty sure I just hit a bout of this. I went on a short trip to visit family and was off the bike for about 10 days. I came back and jumped back into my training without a week to ramp up and I checked just about all of those sympathetic symptoms. Surprisingly for me though - I actually also gained weight. It seems like my body went into preservation mode and started storing anything it could get - despite some days where I burned over 2k calories.
Hi Dylan, Thanks for the excellent videos. I'm a 51yo who has raced since the 80's and twice in the last year, I have experienced a sudden and dramatic loss of ability to produce power. Since watching your videos, it's clear that there's too much high intensity training, plus weekly crits and hard group rides. I'm about to come to the end of a 2 week rest period (no riding), but I can feel just from walking around the house that my legs are still fatigued. Should I resume low intensity riding from next week or take more time off until my legs feel normal again? I don't want to take too much time off, but don't want to start again too soon. Cheers, Nick. Melbourne AU.
Hi Dylan, I'm sure I thanked you b4, but thanks again for all your great advice. A topic that's not talked much is wind as in wind direction. Example= I go to the drops as much as I can in a head wind, it makes sense, but in a tail wind is there a point you sould sit up and take advantage of the tail wind hitting your body. If there's a 50km tailwind and I'm peddling on a flat at 35km at what point would you think should I sit up for the 50km tailwind or should I go to the drops as I also need to think of the drag effect of forward motion.
ive found decent success in using the free app elite Hrv for android. you do need a chest strap that is accurate enough for hr varability. but otherwise taking it every monring before i get up for the day give pretty good info for me
I have experienced over training and for me staying away from caffeine aids in recovering quicker. Also keeping away keeps me from going into over training in the first place.
2:06 I think that explains why I felt stronger after 1 week of not much riding and not riding the next week. (I wasn't training before those weeks though.)
What Dylan forgot to mention is that Parasympathetic overtraining is accompanied by very low HRV. (www.coursera.org/lecture/science-of-training-young-athletes-part-2/parasympathetic-overtraining-T0jzM)
Thanks for making this video i was training from last year n didnt rest n now my sleep wad disturbed my eating was getting worse n worse i was losing weight but mostly muscle i was feeling tired all the time n cant push my self how i use to by this video i am sure i cooked my self so what u should recommend me full rest for a week or low intensity workouts . I dont take any week off from more then year
Would love to see how you might interpret the fitness and freshness info you get on Strava.
Great point! I've just started using it and it definitely is helpful in having a quantified fitness score I can use for goal setting.
It is not so good because it calculates every graph even in the past from the ftp you have up to date
The 1st time I watch this a few months ago I was not overtrained. I am watching this again and it's 4 clock in the morning and I think I'm overtrained. This video makes a lot more sense now.
I am going to take a few easy rides and rest this week
thank tyou again! im eating now!
Dylan, what are you think about Xert? Looks like it is nice tool to track your training process while provide option to check your training status and form too
never over trained, but have had a case of tired legs. Feels like when you push down on the pedals nothing is there, instant lactate. Takes a rest week to get back to normal.
Does the number of recovery days and the periodization schedule change with age? I'm 60 and two hard days of climbing requires at three days of recovery now. I took a recovery week off after six weeks of climbing and it certainly helped but I'm wondering if I should be planning a recovery week more often.
No more mountain mullet?
Dang!!!
Can you make a video on supplements? Proteinpowder, BCAA, Glutamine, and so on...
This is a great video. But it primarily addresses the effects of overtraining on the nervous system. I always feel like my legs are in jeopardy of overuse injury well before my nervous system starts to feel overtaxed. Any thoughts on this? For example, lifting weights would provide little cardiovascular stress, but lots of muscular stress. Is DOMS a good indicator of when are muscles are taxed? I think the science says no. So how do we estimate and regulate muscular stress that is semi-independent of cardio/nervous system stress?
Can you please make a video on the differences between different measurement methods? For example heart rate zones might not be correlated to power zones. So I could be riding in power zone 2 while my heart rate is in zone 4. Similarly with pace zones in running. I could be running in zone 2 pace but the hr is in zone 4. How do you define overt raining in this case?
please talking about high altitude training
Planning on it!