The E31 BMW 850CSi and other 8-series - The Carmudgeon Show Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 157
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- E31 Syndrome: The explanation of why the E31 8-series is widely regarded as a beautiful failure. This is the full history of the BMW 850i, 850Ci, 850CSi, and 840Ci.
===
Click here to join the Hagerty Driver's Club: bit.ly/Join-HD...
===
The BMW 850i had the first post-war German V12. It made 300 hp and was installed in a pillarless, Ferrari-esque coupe almost universally praised for its beauty.
After its debut at the 1989 IAA Frankfurt Motor Show, its first 3 years of production were sold out. But many of those orders were cancelled once the press got a hold of the 850i.
Was it a bad car? In no way. The problem was that its Ferrari looks were married to an uninspired driving experience. The E31 had been conceived by BMW's R&D department (not its marketing department) as a rolling showpiece for its capabilities. And so BMW's priorities were perhaps not in line with market expectations.
In other words: E31 Syndrome. A car that looks one way but drives differently.
The discrepancy was solved when BMW's Motorsport Division made an M8 out of the 850i... but the marketing issue remained because BMW didn't badge it an M8. It was called 850CSi, which wasn't enough of a differentiator. And was made worse because the 850i was renamed 850Ci for no explicable reason.
The 850CSi was a success - it landed to rave reviews, and sold out almost immediately. But its lack of M Badging has cost it enthusiast recognition. Even though it's a full M car with a WBS VIN prefix and the same treatment that the E36 got becoming an M3 out of a 325i.
Learn all about this car on this episode of the Carmudgeon Show - a part of the Hagerty Podcast Network.
To be honest, not once in my life I've looked at an 8 series and thought "sports car". It looks like a GT to me. Always did. It's huge, it's luxurious. Hearing that people mistook it for a sports car is baffling to me.
Same, it seems right in line with an XJ-S, etc. Fast, capable, comfortable.
It looks like a Ferrari 412/456GT/550 competitor. That’s what he Jason meant by looks like a Ferrari. Ferrari would make the fast GTs. The 400i/412 was the 2+2 fast GT. The Testarossa was the 2 seater fast GT. Then there replacements in the 90s was the 456/550.
The R129 SL was the main competitor to the 8 series, but it didn’t have that aggressive “look” that the 8 series had. It was low and long. Long sleek hood with pop up lights, wide read end , with quad tailpipes. Take a look at Prince’s iconic yellow 8 series with tinted windows.
@@TheCluesRNTheBlues Right, but none of the Ferraris you're mentioning were sports cars either, as they even talk about in this episode. For me the 840/850 always looked like a 7 series coupe.
Mercedes SL, Jaguar XJS and Porsche 928 were the competitors. Although Porsche 928 was way faster and way more agile. Especially the GT and GTS. 8-series was a very heavy car. It'd be heavy even by today's crazy standards. That and the disappointing 300 hp they took from the V12 were its achilles heels. Even Jag took almost the same from their V12 which was basically an antique 60's engine.
The ‘Integral Link’ background gag was absolute gold
So good lol😂
I would like to note that the S70/1 used in the prototype M8 is *NOT* the same engine used in the McLaren F1. Paul Rosche did offer to use the M8 S70/1 engine to power the F1, but Gordon Murray specifically required the F1 engine to be no longer than 600mm with ancillaries, weigh no more than 250kg, and be structurally rigid enough to serve as a semi-stressed chassis member, at which point Rosche offered to design and build a completely new V12 for him. Many of the same engineers worked on both engines, hence the similar design and misconception of shared engines.
Source: "The Confusing History of the Greatest V12 BMW Never Built" by Raphael Orlove
Thank you. Many similarities but not the same engine. Source: Maclaren Driving Ambition - the official F1 book, co-authored by Gordon Murray
I have experience with the 850i and the 840ci. I initially owned a 1990 850i and sold it in 1994 due to the horrendous cost of maintenance as the 12 cylinder had two of everything. No matter what, the bill was over $1k. It was an incredible car though - the faster you drove the better the mileage. The acceleration was completely linear and it felt like there was no top speed. As soon as I got fed up with the cost of repairs I regretted selling it and bought a physically identical 8 cylinder version. Maintenance dropped to almost nothing, the horsepower was nearly the same and it had a more robust sound at the tailpipe. I've owned this 840ci now 15 years.
Now the problem is model specific parts as few were made and there are none in the salvage yards. It remains, to me, the most beautiful coupe BMW has ever made and i love just looking at it.
No German engineers of the era saw the point of the V12, except for bragging rights.
My mechanic specialises in vintage German and Italian cars. When I mentioned I was interested in an 8 series, he basically told me V12 for bragging rights, V8 for overall ownership experience (drives great, sounds great, lower maintenance costs).
thanks for sharing!
I'll put a dollar on Jason selling the 850 within the year
"I've got five on it." Do I hear six?
Yeah, it’s too heavy and too good as a transportation device to last in his stable
I have to say though, 52 minutes in, I hate to say it, I don't know much time any of us have left on this earth and honestly if this is his midlife crisis let Discount Sandler have it!
...I need an E36 M3 as soon as possible.
@@WestsideCollectorCarStowage I immediately heard the beat upon reading this comment.
As long as he keeps the Rover
I'm old enough to remeber the 850CSI reviews. I am also old enough to remember thinking 296 HP was insanely low for a V12 when the Corvette made 300. And the R129 SL600 ate its lunch at 389. I feel old.
Um, the 850CSi has 375 hp... Do you mean the 850i?
@@rsr789 yes, I was referencing the 850i. It was incredibly underpowered for having that much engine.
@@JimF1981 Dude. The 850i and the 850Csi are completely different cars.
I know, but they mention the 850i as a failure, hence the comment.
The C4 Zr-1 made between 375-405hp, depending on the year.
Thanks Jason and Derek - just completed 1500km (Melbourne - Adelaide - Melbourne Australia) today in my 95 e31 840ci, an hour of which was spent listening to this. Made for a few laughs. My e31 is enjoyed as just one of several 'datapoints' that I am fortunate to have the luxury of driving. Cheers for your ongoing production of the show.
Love this episode and congrats on your 850 CSi! You nailed the problem with the E31, I had an 850i 6spd in bright red way back when and it looked like a Ferrari but drove like a Cadillac at a time when Vipers had 500hp. At the same time, I also owned a track prepped e28 M5 and that was the opposite, looked like an old volvo sedan but was savage the second you turned the key. It was a great combo, the E31 was the date night car, the E28 was everything else. I did do a bunch of mods to the 850i and with the 6spd it wasn't nearly as bad as the reviewers made it who mostly got the auto to test. Opened exhaust, tune and dinan intake manifolds which helped top end, custom sways and reinforced subframe, springs, shocks, poly bushings which really helped with steering feel, it became a fun car but as you noted, the most important mod was a shorter diff. Did a 3.15 diff, so even shorter than the CSi and it made it a blast around town, enough torque to slip the rear often but controllable, especially for such a heavy car.
At the time while I liked the 8 I loved the M5, younger me needed to be driving with my hair on fire all the time. Today though, older me would take the E31. By modern car standards the 8 is a legit sporty GT. We panned the recirc ball steering at the time as dead compared to a rack but loaded in a turn and it's got more feel than any epas. It's heavy but small. I remember when the Bangle era 6 series was introduced, one rolled up next to me at a stoplight and looking over I was barely able to see over the door. The sculpted interior was amazing, best interior ergos ever, and the slippery shape made cruising at 100mph easy. The only thing that really feels old in a bad way by modern standards is the headlights, those stock flip-up headlights SUCKED.
That's what I was thinking when hearing Jason explain what made the CSI special compared to the regular - that the foundation for a fun care is there and doing a bunch of mods to the 850 would bring it out.
I just bought an 840Ci recently. It’s just so damn pretty. I am an old man who wants some comfort for long drives, and I have other cars for more exciting driving dynamics.
Congrats!
Nice
Good to see Jason excited about a new ride. I had a similar experience losing a few friends way before their time and answered the question, "If not now, when?" before buying a car I've always wanted. It's not a ride in the league in which these guys play, but makes this old guy smile with every turn of the ignition between the seats. 😉
Congrats and enjoy, Jason! Life is short.
👍🏼🥳 ❤
CZcams has a 44 minute German ZDF documentary on these called BMW 850i -- Testfahrt mit Tarnkappe.
The 850 had the same problem as the NSX. Incredible engineering but people wanted excitement.
Derek Clapton
When I was a kid my dad took me to the Melbourne motor show and they had the debut of the 840ci. It was a dark metallic blue with a light grey ruched interior .. I loved it sitting windows down pillarless.
We were offered to go to Sandown for a launch driver test.
Well done Jason for scratching the V12 itch. My dad likes to say "the is no hitch on a hearse son, you can't take the money with you". 😁
After Jason's M8 video, I want a R129 even more.
Ditto, can't stop thinking I must own an SL500 before the normies figure out how good they really were...
Or weren't! Haven't driven one. Saw a red SL600 though and that was g l o r i o u s...
Jason has reached his final form of BMW boy
'HUMPH...ITS AN M CAR YOU GUYS LOOK AT THE RECEIPTS! IT WASNT OFFERED IN AUTOMATIC. ITS NOT AN 850, JEEEEEEZE'
The 850 and r129 comparison is very similar to the 400z and new supra comparison.
The 850CSi is the only 12 cylinder car I have ever wanted in any vague sense. Truth be told I "ideally" wanted an 850i E31 so that I could put a straight 6 in with a manual, upgrade the suspension and steering and put the car on a bit of a diet with an "ideal" target weight of 3,500lbs. At least that was what I "ideally" wanted until the i8 came out and then I wanted to make a proper i8 using an 850i and modifying that. No more than about 400hp (more power requires larger motors and I wanted smaller motors for as much space for batteries as possible while not putting much weight into the car) split between 4 motors, 1 per wheel, so that I can do Lucid Air Sapphire like AWD shenanigans that currently no other car can do.
Didn’t know much about this car but learned a lot during your video and now podcast. Crazy it was never badged as a M. I love the ending of your videos where you drive it up the mountain. Love hearing the engine noises.
A similar case like the 850i to the 850csi can be said about the D4 Audi S8 and S8 Plus (almost an RS8) - the Plus has a different VIN as it was made by Quattro GmbH
When 850i came out nearest competition was Porsche 928 GT and later GTS. Even when it was 12 years old model when first 850 came out it was closest competition for autobahn stormer coupe title.
There were no mention of same Getrag 6-speed gearbox design being used in both Nissan Skyline GTR R34 and Toyota Supra MkIV.
Also missing were two Alpina B12 versions of E31, 5.0 and 5.7 based on 850i and CSi. Larger 5.7L engine version model is probably greatest Alpina and BMW ever made. Sadly there were only 57 of them.
At dawn of CZcams there was channel and website dedicated solely for 850 CSi. It had videos like doing 300 kph (186 miles) on autobahn and constantly over 250 kph for 40 kilometers (25 miles) stright at A2 between Hannover and Berlin. Some shorter and lower quality videos taken from that channel should still be available somewhere.
I agree they were "kinda" competitors. But read the Car and Driver comparison review of a 850i and GTS. It's in Google. That GTS was light years faster and way more agile than the Beemer.
E34 m5 had the speed based wiper preload system, its bizarre. Mine siezed, stripped a tooth and was then source of phantom drain. Fun.
If 1st and 2nd speed gearing is what you're after, I put forward the E63/E64 M6 6-speed: 45.0mph 1st | 76.0mph 2nd.
That's #2 on the list for 1st gear and tied for 5th/10th (new Continental EC Sport 02 @ OEM sizes). Seems to easily beat the 850CSi on a $per$ basis for an exotic engine manual. 8,250 redline 5.0L V10 500HP - 100HP per litre vs. 6,400RPM & 70HP/L for this. E63 coupe is 225 lbs. lighter than 850CSi. Most importantly for normal people: $30k-$45k for a 6-speed M6 is EASILY HALF, probably even 1/3 the 850CSi's price.
Only 701 6-speed E63/E64 M6's built globally vs. 1,510 850CSi's. If you want to consider the 7-speed SMG automated manual (which for neck/clutch health you should not regularly use in auto mode), that's easily #2 on this list: 44mph, 66mph, 97mph. Both M6 transmissions "win" vs. R8 V10 6-speed's gearing for instance. Now, I am NOT IN ANY WAY saying the E63/E64 is cooler than a 850CSi OK. 6-speed V12 coupe wins. Or even that driving dynamics are better (I haven't driven a E31 let alone the mack daddy). The 6-speed M6 comparison falls flat at 3rd gear (115). Stock shifter is typical BMW floppy (don't know about the E31).
But that's arrest-me speed and the shifter can be improved: the V10 M6 sounds better, revs WAY higher, and is another league in speed. And although the M6 is 3.5" longer (wheelbase is >100% the difference), track is
He likes shoet gearing. Not ling gearing 76 mph in 2nd is high. Great on everything else
@@technom3598 I thought so too but I took a screenshot of his list. There are only a handful of cars that are lower than 76mph in 2nd like the M6. And if you average the difference for 1st and 2nd, there are only 6 cars with V12's that have lower gearing. Not saying that's a great measure, but it would seem 76 is actually short relative to what's out there. If you bring in 3rd even there's nothing more under under 25 years old or under $1 million with shorter gearing. Not the end all be all, just interesting.
BMW 850 CSi - 59
Aston V12 Vantage S - 69
Aston DB9 - 75
Aston V12 Vantage - 75
Ferrari 550 Maranello - 68
Ferrari 400I GT - 71 (
Ferrari 250GTO - 71
Ferrari 612 - 71
Aston DB7 Vantage - 74
E34 M5s were also handbuilt in Garching!
E32 also closed all the windows with the key, saw this on Chris Goffey's original review of it on Old Top Gear. I do think my E36 could do this but I don't remember how!
I think E36 coupe closed windows and sunroof. Even E30 might do it if it has central lock. 850 specialty first tech was canbus between windows and sunroof. Closing windows etc. do not need it to function.
@@erkkavilhunen7852 Ohhh I see! Thanks for clearing that up, I thought it was meant to be like the 850 pioneered the entire function! Yeah I think my central locking is iffy rn which is why mine can't do it but I know it could, very neat
The Audi A4 / S4 (B7) also had this feature, you could open up all of the windows and the sunroof or alternatively close all of them, by turning the key.
I'm so happy for you Jason, congratulations. You're 100% right, life is short, and the connection that your friend Mike had to the 850 is a perfect reason to make an irrational purchase. I really hope you do an episode about him because our car friends and memories with them is really what this lifestyle is all about. And yeah, everyone should own a V12 at some point. I know I definitely will.
Yes, South Africa mentioned! 34:00 I was hoping the 745i would come up. There's also the 530 MLE we got (and many other SA specials).
The e32/e31 suspension wasn't new, it was the e28/e24 suspension. The parts interchange, the only difference being the longer thrust arm (for weight) and longer center link (for width) in the e32. The steering boxes, tie rod ends, struts, and lateral control arms swap between e24/e28/e32/e34/e31.
Addendum: FRONT suspension, just to be clear.
Rear. The rear suspension.
@@TheCarmudgeonShow Yes, and at 17:10 you reference the front suspension design as being from the effectively new 7 series. But, the front suspension predates the e32 by quite a bit.
All this r129 glazing is giving me, a new r129 owner, a lot of dopamine.
The way you described it, in the episode my thought was Reitzle just seems to have wanted to make their version of the 959.
"Das könne wir auch!" But for whatever reason left out of the car who they were. (would that fit the description?)
16:31 compromised to get in: Yes we all know James's skid, but for me personal, getting out was worse.
Tried it on a car show, and i had to get out on all 4 to not hit myself on the door and because it was so strange to get out.
(Or lets say getting out of a Lotus Elise looked dignified compared to it.)
44:00 For almost 11 years i had an average speed of 63-70kph as the average speed on my cars trip computer. (But the majority of the 200 000km i did with it were 200km weekly commutes on pieces of roads that were mostly 100 and 130 kph zones. This was also probably the reason why the car still had the first brakes on when i sold it. Well apart from the rear pads that got changed at around 175 000km)
Jason-
Fellow manual E31 owner here...I'd love to get a copy of that book to digitize or buy one for myself. Please let me know where you got it or if you know somewhere I could get it on loan. I absolutely adore my 850i & it's been just a joy to own & work on. I bought mine not running 3 months ago, got it running in a day or two & then drove home 2,000 miles. Luckily my clutch is good for the time being but get familiar with custom clutch manufacturer's out there because that's really the only wear item you can't get super easy anymore.
The first 6 speed manual Corvette was a 1989 base Corvette. The ZR-1 used the same zf6 transmission, but with a longer input shaft.
"The CSi was from 93"
I own a CSi from 92 ...
About the reason for rear-wheel steering (AHK for Aktiv Hinterachse Kinematic) in Euro spec cars (was also available as an option on regular 850s, btw): it was there to compensate for the fact that BMW, at that time, could not offer ESP (DSC in BMW speak), contrary to the new SL. So they wanted to compensate and use the AHK to make ESP 'redundant'. By the time the E38 7 Series etc appeared, ESP had become an easily integrated add-on from an external supplier, so the complex, expensive and fragile AHK was binned. (The E31 does, however, have ASC+T, so traction control). Funny detail: the hydraulic pressure circuit of AHK uses braking oil to function.
56:08: "And some particular issues with this car that I had to work through" => you sound like every E31 owner now...
Anyways, thanks for this guys. I'm suffering from horrible back pains atm and can't operate my clutch, so at least your ramblings have helped me relive what it's like to drive my CSi for a bit.
17:19 Incase you're looking for ‘Integral Link’ meme
HAS DEREK EVER TRIED OUT FOR JEOPARDY?
U.S. sold 1993-1995 Acura Legend LS Coupe 6-Speed Manual 3.2 L SOHC C32A1 known as a TYPE 2 Motor with 230 HP and 210 FT/LB TQ. The 1994-1995 Acura Legend GS Sedan 6-Speed Manual had the same HP & TQ as the LS Coupe.
A lovely car you have bought, and definitely a hidden gem. I owned an 850CSi in the late 90's for 6 years, and still wish I had not sold it. Many happy miles, you will like it more as time goes by. Your exhaust mod is very interesting btw,
Congrats on the car. I love the 850CSI
Regarding average speed.I have a picture of the trip computer on my 2012 A6 showing 4968.6 miles with an average speed of 51 mph. I drive my 93 MR2 most of the time and use the A6 mostly to drive between Salt Lake City and St. George UT (80 MPH I-15). It is important to have the right card for the purpose.
MY FIRST GREAT CAR EXPERIENCES WERE AN 850CSI (MY DAD'S BOSS OWNED) & A FIRST GEN VIPER (AT A GAS STATION ON VACATION) 😃
One of my fav episodies as its all about my childhood DREAM car. The 850i ! What a car. I'd buy one just to park it in my garage and look at it. BMW will NEVER top this car. The M1 is sort of it's equal but it has a fibreglass body.
I think the e31 8-series was one of the first BMWs I was interested in when I was a little kid and mainly because of the popup headlights and the sleek body style compared to other BMWs. Kid me really liked it, I still find it rather neat and part of me wants to try one.
The CSI MIGHT have more power in europe because full load enrichment was legal here and not in the us? I don't know us regulations well, espacially not old ones. But european cars of that vintage did run at λ=0.95 when at full throttle. A slightly rich mixture burns faster and that results in a slight power increase...
On turbo engines almost every car, even modern ones, run rich. Somtimes really filthy rich. The slight enrichment refers to NA engines
@@HMHacki I know that Mercedes allowed for full throttle enrichment on the M119 engine cars up to 1992. 1993 and later received different software mapping.
And on the early M120, that's how they made 408ps rather than the later models with 389 or whatever
@@energymc22 Yes about 2-5% power gain depending on how much timing advance this also allows is right.
I thought Mercedes teamed up with Bosch to develop CAN architecture also Cadillac used multiplexing for the Cadillac Allante in 1987.
It’s probably using either a competing “standard” or because of the introduction delays the W140 was first? Upon further Googling one article says BMW first used CAN in 1993, which would mean that the E31 used a precursor to the CAN bus. Which Jason alludes to
By calling it “multiplex like CAN”.
I've driven the 840Ci, Dinan 840i, 850i, and 850CSi and I've always felt the CSi is FAR better than the "base" 850. The CSi definitely deserves to be called a sports car and its unfortunate that there weren't more of them produced. I think BMW would have been better off had they produced just a CSi and M8...but the market was bad so here we are.
First 850 was a product ahead of its time....
1:09:49 I think you should only buy a V12 engined car when it is the highlight of the vehicle experience.
When i had a 320d e46 my avrege speed was 85km/h (52mph) over 38000km (23000miles), Used it for weekly to and from work. Half a million on the odo, not a single unce of oil did it consume. If it only hand't been a clunkomatic. Goosh I hate does boxes.
More 850CSI talk, lets go!
E31 is just heavy. There is no getting away from that problem because the tire tech just was not as advanced as it is now so that weight was a bigger problem than it would be now. It was common to upgrade the wheels and tire on these cars in period. Most aftermaket wheels at the time were far heavier than the OE wheels, that really messed with the suspention dynamics and made them crashy with with non oe wheels.
Where's the Radwood episode? Inquiring minds (and those who asked questions in the Q&A) want to know. ❤❤❤
Is not coming
i was really hoping to hear CSI Miami Opening song and a horrible pun in the 850 CSi revelations as an easter egg😂
It was far from a mass market car but the Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale had a six speed back in 1967
Slight correction, 840i is M60b40, 840ci is M62. Also all the Ci are 5 speed autos
My car is a 1994, so M60B40. On the door jamb data plate, it says 840Ci.
@@davidcombs8458 I forgot switch is 94
Like to see them discuss the 2025 M5 and M5 Touring launching end of the month
Minor sound quality problem? Could be it’s just my ears or my youtube/devices but I had more trouble than normal understanding both of you in this episode. Particularly when talking about interesting details that you with probably know you both seem to lower both your speaking volume and your enunciation. Which is normal in real conversations but is tricky in a podcast if it gets too extreme. There were a lot example but 1 memorable one, even already knowing about nikasil & alusil, I couldn’t understand the word Alusil till rewind # 2 or 3. Interesting episode tho with subtitles on and volume cranked up a bit too high. 👍
17:21 is some hilarious editing
Is that a click bait for comments? You are very similar to Adam Sandler! But also the car enthusiast and journalist who is producing the best car content amazing shots, editing, motion graphics, guests, humor, research and PRESENTER!!!
I know when the R129 was introduced it did have CAN for the powertrain and ABS/ASR systems. That was 1989 as well
One of my favorite episodes ... "you are a twat" ... "and also right". hahahaha
Jason missed the very obvious "If you guys get an opportunity to drive the 850 Csi. I highly recommend it.. Because its a revelation" mic drop boom thank you for coming. Love you all see you next week trips over a wire on his way out!
Completely non-car OT: Awesome T-Shirt worn by Hyphen in this episode!
My 91 R129 has the windows gp up on the key if you hold the key at lock just a bit, also tiny beep. Maybe it was an anti theft option.
Yeah and it has no electronic keys, just traditional.
The 850CSI suffers from the Lexus LC problem, they expect it to be a supercar but it's a grand tourer
The only BMW that I would ever own is an i8 , tech overload ❤❤
I'm pretty sure my 1990 Corrado had roll up windows with key
Wasn't elastokinematics the big deal in Porsche's 928 Weissach axle? Was BMW first to do that?
LMAO Jason telling Derek to stop jumping head knowing he already knows all this shit, hahahaha 😂😂
As much as I enjoyed my E36, the E46 has been a much better daily driver. However, if my mission is to have fun on back roads I’d have to choose the E36
I can understand this. I daily drive an e36 and I chose it because I prefer the rawness of it as well as style. The e46 is also a great car, reminds me of a mini version of an e39.
The e53 M that was built for hype, should have been the cherry on top of the 2000s but BMW chickend' out
good for you Jason! you deserved that V12 in your life
QE2. Not QE3.
✅ I was thinking exactly that - WTF is a QE3? I mean the performance of Quantitative Easing Phase 3 was similarly questionable but they didn't have a time machine.
I'll be the cyclist nerd who notices Derek's shirt.
The 1989 Corvette got the ZF 6 speed the ZR-1 was a 1990 model
Nope, between the length of time he has wanted and the fact his friend Mike bought one somewhere between the pontiac endurance test and making the i think it was a buick that the broke the wires on.
The R129 image you showed at 7:15, it had back seats. Were these later sold as jump seats n the aftermarket or was there once a 4-seater R129?!
Why ignore DB7, DB9, DBS?
Cool clip at the end. Thought a 24 cylinder would sound better.
Jason seems to be selling himself into keep the 850 🤔
In conclusion: The E31 should have been offered as a convertible
Never liked the 2 door Grand Coupes (E30 is my size limit) And if l want big power? I prefer the E34 3.8 or E39 M5's.. much more practicals & hasle around
I would love to know where i can buy a decent 150k mile e36 m3 for $7500. Up in the PNW, $7500 gets you a 250k mile former drift car.
I see some pretty decent ones in MD but yea they're still at least 10k
E31 Syndrome? Can I use that?
Thing is, the 850CSi really did have the right name. The engine put out sub 70hp per litre. It's a 2-valve lump, for god's sake. It's no M engine. Obviously, anything goes now with the M badge, but back then it meant something. And the CSi very, very clearly didn't qualify.
Plus no individual throttle bodies either as far as I'm aware.
@@clinttube Indeed. The mistake Jason is making is comparing it to the US market E36 M3. Which wasn't really an M3 and would have been better badged a 330CSi (332CSi for the facelift version I guess). But at least the US E36 M3 was twin cam, four-valve and OK-ish specific output. The 850CSi was a very low specific output single-cam 2-valve lump. Not at all M-ish.
@@flat6croc All that is true but as far the VIN goes, there is no debate about it being an M
No ITBs, not a M
holy corn nuts I need a cheat sheet for all the code names.
Homer Simpson - Single Enthusiast, Car Designer.
Georg Kacher is, was, always will be such a terrible, terrible hack. That he held such an important position in the motoring media for so long is deeply depressing. His car analysis was terrible.
The 850CSI is almost the same size as a new Mustang
No BigDeal using your own cars - they are what they are, and you own them because of that!
Yeay
For comfort on a long trip, just get an LS. But that's not really what we're talking about.
I love my 850i/6. People just have to realize that theyre GTs not sports cars.
You need designers to design things, marketing to understand what is financially worth making, and engineers to make it a reality. Most engineers are crap designers. So are most marketing people.
16:16 Crypto bros, rappers and influencers LOVE the i8.
It's the Carmegeon show. P.s. Sorry Jason.
I can't discern the ratio of extended gag to actual trouble in Derek's clapping, but, if it's an actual issue, I wish I could tell him to not smack the palms together, but to cup both hands and clap with one hand's cupped palm and the others' cupped fingers
i.e. the final position you're aiming for is the final knuckle segment of your dominant hand's fingers being able to just barely curl around the portion of your non-dominant palm right past, and orthogonal to, your outstretched thumb
I’m hoping for some
Whistlin diesel cybertruck test video commentary
Hopefully these videos aren't going to up the price the the 850
@54:48 lol Jason looks so small compared to Derek.
17:23, what does the random ITR mean?
integral link joke
@@vercingetorige400 lol I get it now