Volute Methanol Nozzles Installed & Tested
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- čas přidán 25. 09. 2022
- I install and flow test methanol injection nozzles in the volute. Join our forum at www.electrifiedboost.com and consider supporting my efforts on patreon: / alexltdlx
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You should look into pro-meth. They have better pumps for that many nozzles. They do 4,6,8 port direct injection setups with their pumps. Nozzles are higher quality as well. I made the switch from AEM to Prometh and notice the difference. It seems all the manufactures use the same pump brand but made different for each suppliers needs.
I'm glad you tested individually as well. Can't wait to see how it helps out.
I felt like I had to because the flow looked uneven - even though it wasn't. I need to check the pump's start up ability under pressure again - the nozzles have built-in check valves, and they're strong enough where you can't blow through them.
Great test . I wanted to clarify a comment in your video. With volute injection you don't get compressor efficiency. In order to get the turbo to move the compressor map
Over to the right you need to inject pre compressor blades where the methanol goes through the turbo changing its characteristics and making it more efficient.
They'll be injecting into greater than atmospheric pressure, which will reduce their flow rate and might be an explanation for your significantly higher than advertised results
I think you are correct about the 3 nozzles causing pressure drop. Check to see if your pump has a pressure control screw. You can flow the nozzles together adjust the pressure until you get the desired 500 ml. Should work great!
Thanks - I will check for a pressure control screw. I didn't know that was a thing.
I know that shurflo pumps have it for sure. I hope it does! If not you could get a shurflo.
good stuff keep it up
Thanks, will do!
Volute spray does not change the compressor map. Spray into the spinning wheel and cooling during the compression phase does so. Volute spray is smart for reducing IC heat soak during sustained heavy boost. Also… AEM nozzles are not 250, 500, and 1000cc at any particular test pressure… because AEM has *no standard test pressure*. Ask them and they just don’t know/don’t care. Lastly, push-to-connect fittings commonly leak. Compression is lots smarter.
I see you do the prerequisite impeller spin...
Lol - you noticed! I made it a point to leave it in. 😃
The flow will vary with the pressure differential across the injector. You do not have a rising rate boost referenced regulator. Therefore as your boost goes up your flow will go down.
The improvised nature of the fuel supply set up that accompany WMI kits always make me want to avoid them.
TBH, I was against them for a long time myself. But the Sledgehammer electric turbo (supercharger) is the perfect candidate - relatively low boost, extremely efficient yet slightly undersized. Meth hits the weaknesses perfectly.
Also when spraying water over methanol the amount of cc changes. The meth will change the pumps psi because it's thinner. Because the water is heavier, you will get much more cc then if you spray pure methanol. Also check valves, hose length, fittings, T's etc all play a role in the pumps final pressure output dramatically changing how many cc will actually be introduced.. for example, if I want 800cc but have a check valve and a trunk mounted kit I need to spray 900 plus cc..just some food for thought. Figured I'd share my findings with you brotha
It was nice seeing a stop watch instead of a damn smartphone! I notice your oak trees are leaving clumps of leaves all over the yard like mine are!
If you take a close look, you can see the stop watch has a tenth of a second hand on it; it's really cool. Back in the day in my day job, analog stop watches, particularly Minervas were a big deal. I have a Minerva, but I found this thing in a pawn shop probably 20 years ago - it's actually a nice watch - it's made by Junghans.
@@AlexLTDLX My old neighbor was a track & field coach and he had Minerva's, Heuer, Cronus & one that was made in the Soviet Union.
A few points to mention:
1-The pumps a diagphram and very crap for smooth flow. Need an accumulator (pressure tank) to take up pulsation and keep steady spray rather than pulsed dribbling. They also are low volume and regularly claim big pressures which in reality are just BS.
2- Your lines are way to small, especially on the pump supply. Kits are built to price.
3- Poor atomoisation there. Not a supporter of big drops of water that are easy to settle or condense in plumbing which is why W/M best placed close to throttle or intake manifold (not all of us run throttles).
4- Test at 14V which is what you will have in reality of a vehicle. 3S packs for the RC guys and undervolting.
Ideal for my 2 cents: Way bigger tank (we street, not drag strip), 10mm or 3/8th intake plumbing with coarse pre-filter to the pump which I would be looking at a tripple diagphram or gear style, same size line to pressure accumulator to store up the highest safe pressure you can run, fine final filter (pumps can have or create junk in line) and good HP solenoids to the nozels, aghain, decent size to suit the nozels. Basic and crap setups of turning pumps on and off result in big drips or dropplets and combine this with guys who spray infront of the compressor wheel.... yeah, nah!
good points. I am running meth on my 84 Turbo Regal, I'm using the ALKY Control style progressive controller. works like a damn. it's pushing 20psi, and the controller runs off the TPS, and boost reference. Just curious about the Volute style injection so here I am.
How would you integrate an accumulator in a setup like that? Do you have links to share that a guy could learn a bit more? thx in advance
@@learysinsight9617 I am sure Alex has more videos in the pipe for his testing and tuning but here is some quick-n-dirty responses. Pulsed pump outputs can be good for higher flow nozels that can use the pulse to help break up the droplets but with low flow nozels, the pressure just spikes in the lines and makes noise and vibration. Look up the old "AquaMist" systems that used a pulsed pump to drive sprayer. Soft lines can and will act a little like an accumulator but more so, like a dampener. Accumulators can just be and tank full of air with single entry/exit in bottom and water just compresses the air however, under a 100-200PSI, not much air volume is left over and reduces the effect a lot. Better designs are like those on house water pumps and have a rubber bladder inside that might already be charged to 2/3rds of the rated system pressure so as to keep more air for the accumulation (like Spring travel in car shocks). To use an accumulation setup though, pump is always powered and a pressure switch stops the pump at max pressure and restarts if demand is sensed. Water/Meth spray control done via solenoid and PWM valves. No videos or links sorry, my research from years of expirience and background in Aviation and things produce power.
Hey ALX, with the meth injection can you keep the stock MAP/injectors?
Yo that is a baller stop watch. Also your plastic welding really came out great. Barely noticeable unless you are looking for it. Seems you are finding the limit of what the single pump can do. It seems to me that a pressurized system using a fuel pump and actual injectors would really work better overall and is still cheap, but there may be something I'm missing.
Thanks. I did try an actual fuel injector back in the '90's yet and didn't have much success. I agree with you in general about these kits, but they certainly seem to work and this time I figured I'd take the path of least resistance, since I've decided to take the path of most resistance in making an electric turbo work in general. I'll probably jet it down a bit - like to 1,000-1,250cc nominal flow, instead of what you saw in the video - 1,500cc nominal flow.
@@AlexLTDLX Yeah I might do some of my own experiments someday who knows. Some people have talked about how water/meth atomizes vs fuel at given pressures etc. I'm sure there is a reason using injectors isn't more popular.
@@802Garage Injectors would solve the need for an additional solenoid (which the AEM kit comes with). But what sold me on this kit was the AEM V3 nozzles: czcams.com/video/aooi3Y9YuGQ/video.html
@@AlexLTDLX Very cool test! There's no doubt AEM makes some good stuff. I'm glad the nozzles are clearly a custom item, not just some furnace burner piece or something. AEM boost control solenoids being one of the clearest examples of rebranding.
Thanks!
Thank you very much! Every dime helps, because I make TERRIBLE financial decisions. Like trying to make an electric turbo that works... :)
@@AlexLTDLX well thanks for great content, I've always been interested in electric superchargers and you have a very natural way of presenting your results.
Ross
Start the stop watch. At 10 seconds turn on the pump. Switch the pump off at 40 seconds
Yeah, that would've worked too. Did you catch that that stopwatch had a tenth of a second hand? I love that thing...
@@AlexLTDLX one of the race movies. Le mans or gran prix had a guy with a clip board with triple stop watches.
Is there any pump pressure loss with 3 nozzles rather than 1 or 2
Most pumps have an adjustable screw you can bump the pressure with. I"d wager (but never tried) Also volute injection isn't as good as pre inlet IMHO. Less wall wetting and puddling if ya spray it all pre-turbo. Also less post stuttering as nozzles and fluid clears from piping and turbo.
did you ever get the meth volute up and running? is there a video? thanks
I'm glad you asked. I want to get the meth/coated volute on the dyno before I drive back down to Texas again - in other words, in about a month or so.
nice one test maan!
And you need to remember you are pumping the meth in to pressurized volute. It will reduce the flow rate if you dont route boost pressure in to the meth tank.
Is positive pressure typically plumbed to the supply tank?
@@ThePavilionlivin depending on the system and pumps. If you dont have big enough pumps, then you could use boost to aid.
That's true - but unlike the fuel system, this pump is supposed to run at over 200 psi, so the ~8 psi isn't much, really, plus it's factored in when you tune it, since it only runs under boost.
@@AlexLTDLX oh yes I forgot the low boost of your setup. Usually methanol injection is used on very high boost application like compound turbo diesel.
what thread are the nozzles? Is that 1/8 NPT?
Yep.
The AEM system is pretty bad, the nozzle just loves to get gummed up, so much so you'll end up damaging the injector housing trying to get the tip out! Controller is at best basic, soooooo many better setups out there!
I've heard that before. I'll keep an eye on the nozzles.
not a particularly useful test .. as the car will most likely have 14.4V which will provide better flow with all the nozzles connected up .. on a different note.. That looks like a huge amount of meth !
I figured that with voltage drops from the wiring, 12 volts is realistic, maybe a little low. I know it won't get over 14 volts for sure - everything going full tilt, the voltage does sag a bit - fuel pump is getting full current (22 amps by itself, wired straight to the trunk mounted battery), the 80lb injectors running at high duty cycle, the ignition box drawing max current, etc. In fact, I just looked at a datalog - battery voltage during a pass drops down to between 12.9 and 13.2 volts. That means the most the pump is likely to get is 12.2 volts while running. And you're right, it is a huge amount of meth. I'll likely jet down one or two of the injectors from 500cc to 250cc; going from a nominal 1500cc to 1000-1250cc.
The USRT stuff is miles better than this
You need good voltage and lines going to injectors need to be equal crimp the lines for more pressure