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Do you think it's ever possible to forgive the perpetrators of the Holocaust? (Q6)
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- čas přidán 17. 04. 2020
- Yom HaShoah | Question 6
This video is part of a series of videos produced by the Office of Rabbi Sacks in partnership with the Holocaust Educational Trust. For further videos and information, please visit www.RabbiSacks.org/Holocaust. This series has been made possible thanks to the generous support of Richard Harris.
'But you can begin a new way together' Yes, I agree. RIP Jonathan Sacks.
Very clear, what you explain as the two different concepts of forgiveness, the Jewish one and the Christian one. I had no idea. Now I understand.
This is so wonderful in defining the difference between us and everyone else.
Only the victims can forgive the perpetrators. I would tell a perpetrator to go and ask his victims for forgiveness.
Wrong. Only God can forgive whether people do or not, and that depends on the person's relationship with the Messiah.
@@watchgoose incorrect. Study Exodus.
Thank you. Forgiving and forgetting are often misunderstood, one can forgive perhaps but to forget is to deny that it happened. However, I love the way you state it ' there can be a new beginning to start a relationship among the young ones' entrusting them to a better world.
Forgiveness is annulling an offence against you.
People also seem to think forgiveness should be given despite no repentance.
Evil exists. Not just in the Holocaust but every day in history, right now, in 5 minutes, tomorrow, next year.
Badness and evil are different. A bad person might commit an evil act but be out of character and truly shows remorse.
Evil shows no remorse, no shame, no guilt, no regret inwardly where G-d can see. On the outside they are used to wearing a mask to hide their darkness, unless frankly they want people to be appalled, horrified or plain just don’t care.
PS - sorry I didn’t mean to post this in response to you but can’t seem to copy into separate response.
I forgive to set myself free, not to be held hostage by the EVIL Committed against me. To forget is my demise, for tomorrow you repeat the folly. I will remember and I will know how to respond and take ACTION, it's only then that one is equipped.
I can't forgive. I want to but I just can't. What they did was unforgivable especially the killing of children.
No; never! Never ever anyone can forgive what has been done to an entire nation.
Brilliant
Thank you!
Yes you can if you can. No you can't if you can't. There is no answer that fits everyone, circumstances and your environment always dictates our heart's decisions.
So if you kill someone (or even if you harm someone in some way and they die before you can ask forgiveness) then God can't forgive you because only the person themselves can forgive you? Seems to be a hole in this theology.
I agree. Christ died for and forgave sins on behalf of God.
Yes, agreed
Rabbi Sacks and the respondents to Simon Wiesenthal in the book "The Sunflower
are correct that obviously you can't forgive someone for an act of murder done to a third party. But there is another element in the question and that is and that is repentance for it's own sake. Simon remains silent despite his assumption of the sincerity of Carl's regrets because he can not forgive him. I feel the correct answer to a Nazi asking forgiveness would be "I can not forgive you for what you did to someone else but use your remaining time alive to repent your actions. It will be taken into account in the next world"
No matter how evil someone was, if they express sincere regret even if that regret will not undo anything, nor will it fully atone for them, nonetheless their repentance is to be encouraged.
Considering what he went through, I think it takes quite a lot of chutzpah to speak for someone like Simon Wiesenthal.
Hindsight for him is myopic. Besides arrogant. And insulting.
@@nomorecensoringme Considering that Simon Wiesenthal's entire book was just a collection of people who he ASKED for their opinion on how he should have responded there is no reason why I should not chime in as well.
True!! I cant forgive so much pain in our hearts and so much baby's nd toddlers was burning in life No !!!! Go and ask in their mass graves if their souls can forgive you if they can forgive to see their own mothers in tears and pain holding them till is all gone !! No i cant not forgive the Nazis !!
Jesus forgave you while you were yet in your sins. Who are you to exalt yourself above God?
The book name is "The Sunflower".
Once they're swinging from a scaffold, THEN we forgive them.
To begin a new way together always happens on Earth. Thats shy we are here. But you cannot escape your karma.
Forgiveness of such events are not up to man. While a single individual may forgive or not, this does not affect the larger issue; namely, will this person be resurrected once the kingdom is established.
While the plate of sin is cleared when a person dies, the problem here is -> has the person's name been written into the book of life. So, while in death there remains no more sin to atone for, without one's name in the book of life there remains only eternal death, aka destruction.
Here we have an interesting conundrum. God forgave King David and proclaimed him righteous because of his repentance, but what will the man he had wronged and gotten killed say when face to face in the Kingdom?
For example, does a person have the right by scripture to divorce an adulterer? Yes! So, scripturally there is no forgiveness. The Apostle Paul asked God to pay back what evil the blacksmith had done to him, them.
When a human forgives another, that only affects how s/he feels. It does not affect God's forgiveness or lack thereof.
There are sin that can not be forgiven. We can not capitalize on the statement" God is love". It is a sin on humanity...
ברוך דיין האמת
If I can't forgive A for stealing from B or cancel A's debt to B then how can I possibly forgive A for killing B.
Not Jewish, but I could NEVER forgive this insanity. Forgiveness is a weakness. Revenge is justice.
You really bought into this story? I figured with your age you'd be a little wiser. How do you know its factual? Because some guy made up a story about someone burning a house with ppl in it? Do you believe everything you hear? Lol...
When I was in high school I tried to befriend an american born german boy His mother was kind of strict and reminded me of a Nazi. Come to find out her and her husband were in military under 3rd Reich during the war but came over here and got citizenship. The son was always robotic acting He would always say yes in a robotic voice. His mom did not want him to associate with other American boys including me...I did visit him once and tried to teach him guitar and up in the bedroom was a skull on his bedroom desk I asked where it came from and he said "my fatter (father) got it off a battlefield" Years later I realized that if Germany had won they would not have been any better than Hitler's bunch
So creepy
But if G-d Himself says 'You shall not murder', then why do you say the sins of the Holocaust were not against Himself?
In the Ten Commandments there are sons against G-d and interpersonal sins. He forgives those done to Him. Those that are between people are for us to deal with.
So what does David mean, when after murdering Uriah, he confessed, "I have sinned against [G-d]." 2 Sam 12:13 And again in Psalm 51:4, he says, "Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight..." Was David mistaken?
Dear Rabbi, Can you explain? Is the purpose of foregiving for the " healing" of the Perpetraitor or the Victim?
Hashem forgave the Hebrews for Multiple sins and infractions in his Ways in Torah repeatedly ... are we not to do the same?☝
We are supposed to forgive those who hurt us, not our brothers or fathers or whoever it may be. I believe that God can forgive a truly repentant criminal.
Why ask me now? Did you ask me this question when you decided to wipe people out??? No. Would you have listened to me if I had asked you to stop??? No. How then can I forgive what other souls have gone thru?I have no right.
Go and ask the soul you killed. Can you do that???
You will ask , why should the present gen face the deeds of the past. ?
To this I will say, why did the children face the fate of their parents????They were going to be the " present gen"
I think G"d can and does forgive. Many times in the Tanach that's what He does and announces to do. So the real question imho is: What will G"d do for the victims of those bad people He might even forgive? The answer, I think is: He will bring them back to life!
And maybe, before He forgives, there will be a confrontation between victims and reshaim (bad people, the murderers) , who will absolutely repent and bow before their former victims who will now be flawless images of their creator! They will of course also bow before the Master if the Universe who will forgive them.
G-d forgives for sins against Him. Only. As it states in the Torah. For sins between people He does not forgive. People do. Or not.
I think that king David had the same problem. How did he David receive forgiveness? Even though the Jewish man was not able to forgive him he should have pointed to the One Who can forgive. The Lord Hashem Almighty.
So if there was forgiveness for king David there has to be forgiveness. Why didn't all of these scholars see this same situation.
If you forgive not,those who you can see,God whom you have never seen,will never forgive you your sins.
Wrong. That again relates to something done to you by someone you don't know. Not to someone else.
he cant forgive but he sought revenge in behalf of those who cant forgive because they are dead.
There's a problem with this teaching that needs to be reconciled. There's a teaching about property - that it's an extension of the person. For example, if you own a house and the roof tile is loose and falls off and injures someone it is the same as if the owner injured the person himself. When one considers that Hashem had to make room for everything to exist and created all things then everything that exists is his personal property. Every offense committed is therefore an offense against Hashem. The question is who has the greater interest? The one who is injured or Hashem who owns that person?
How can Hashem therefore be excluded from the injury and its forgiveness? Explain this to me.
Again when King David committed adultery and murdered the husband Hashem forgave him. How is this possible?
A German asked me to forgive him. I said I’m not the one who needs to forgive him. He was in the hitlerjugend. He told me those were the best days of his life. Made me sick to my stomach
Heaven can't be divided though. Would we be moved by God or make God move(d)? This is deep.
In my dream Gods' face was like stone, even Angels. Yet I slipped in through a crack. It had great pull as I crawled up. Stretched by time and space. I pushed the limit and made it to a throne. Yet, He remained unmoved, till I was very close. He said he loved me and the crack at the gate pulled me through. It was real to me Rabbi.
Did he use me as a messenger? I won't lie about my dream. I refuse to. Perhaps this means something to you. You would probably understand this more than any other right now in my life. I have no shame in admitting this publicly. So I share it to you. If I don't it will drive me mad. This is very deep Rabbi, thank you for sharing your truth. It's personal. You deserve to know what I saw. Call me crazy or whatever like anyone else. You are a legal Representative.
What is a Tzadic? Isn't a tzadic someone who atones for others. What is Isaiah 53 about? Why did Abraham take his son to Moria? What is Hashem's plan for His people?
@@jessicakelley32 Very kind of you to take the time and reply. I had previously written that king David had the same problem. He had Uriah killed to stay with Bathsheba. He couldn't ask for forgiveness yet he received it. So it seems as if there is atonement for sins when you can't directly ask for it.
I’m a Catholic and not a Jew (although I was very interested in Judaism), but I would say that the crimes of the Holocaust are both offenses against one’s neighbor and as God commands us to love our neighbor, not to murder and etc., they are offenses against God. According to my beliefs, God has sent certain men to act as His representatives and when they do certain things, it is God doing the things through them, and that includes absolution. However, an average priest or Bishop will never hear a penitent who has committed mass murder, but if absolution is granted depends on if they are repentant or not.
You're really arguing against a Jew about our pain? About our laws. About our relationship with G-d? Seriously?
@@nomorecensoringme he argues against other religions in this video.
And that's why we have the death penalty! send them back to face their victim!
all Nazi get Gehinom forever
There is no such thing as 'Gehinnom forever' for Jews. That's a non-Jew concept. Find out what we believe if you care to. The Nazis, and others like them, have a different fate altogether.
Well, don't you want God to forgive your transgresstions?
What makes you so good YOU can't forgive?
Yes it is possible. Unfortunately my comment was deleted so nevermind
I don't assume that I understand the pain of the jewish soul persecuted ,trodden down for 2500 years...I don't....as a believer in your jewish Messiah Jesus/Jeshua/ I'm forever indebted to Israel for introducing to me the whole concept of God,covenants,promises,laws...yet it troubles me to hear what this gentleman said about the inability to forgive...I think the ability of forgivness belongs to the divine nature of God....it's the work of God in the human heart alone that enables us to forgive others whether it's a petty offence or a hienous crime against humanity/against Jewish people/
I know Jesus would forgive him if he asked Him to. Jesus paid for all of our sins on the cross. The Lord knows our hearts, and if we are sincere in our hearts that we are ashamed of ourselves, and hate what we've done, and ask him for forgiveness, then The Lord Jesus forgives us and remembers our sin no more. "Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Light. No one comes to The Father except through Jesus." Praise God!
Well said. This Rabbi did say there were two opinions. Too bad he didnt mention the Christian side of the argument. Recently I have been reading the difference between the Jewish God of the Old Testament and the Christian God of the New Testament. They are the same God but one God is looked at by the Jews with guilt in their hearts and the other God is looked at by Christians with love in their hearts. It also has to do with the fact that Christ died for our sins whereas the Jews are still waiting for their saviour or Messiah.
JESUS forgave the people that killed him. and they weren't romans. Think about it.
If u can't forgive u r in deep trouble.
They were the Roman authorities and those of high status who collaborated with them. Crucifixion was a Roman practice.
@@trishfowlie3145 it was herod's men, jewish
The Romans killed Jesus Because they were afraid of him and afraid of his power. The JEWS NEVER EVER killed him. He was a JEW and died a JEW.
@@estellebehrens3944 pilate washed his hands of the whole affair. if u go against pilate u die .herod had jesus killed read the aquarian gospel of jesus the christ. if u know how to read.
I don't care what you say or what you read it was not the Jews that killed Jesus it was the Romans. You can say what you like but one day the real truth will come out.
there is no difference in jewish forgiveness and christian forgiveness.
I'm not familiar with Sam Wezenthal's stories but this one is pretty poorly constructed. Why would Germans waste precious petroleum, which during the war was a valuable commodity, when there were so many faster, easier, and much less costly ways of disposing of enemies? Why would a young German soldier ask for some random jew off the street? A Christian would ask God for forgiveness, but the jewish storyteller doesn't understand that point very well. The author also doesn't seem to understand hand grenade function either. I don't know if the Rabbi was trying to make a point by sharing this poor work of fiction. Perhaps it is to do better research before trying to become an author.
An ignoramus shouldn’t comment on things he’s ignorant about.
www.facinghistory.org/sunflower-synopsis
czcams.com/video/cch2ukNuXT0/video.html
Read the book.
He is the author of two thought-provoking books “Not in God’s Name” & “Morality: Restoring the Common Good in Divided Times” His depth of knowledge was not confined to Judaism. I don’t always agree with him but I respect his wisdom.
Burning Jews alive on the eastern front is well-documented. The perpetrator of the massacre of U.S. soldiers during the Battle of the Bulge in December 1944 (Joachim Peiper) had a reputation for burning Jews alive while serving on the eastern front. His group was known as the “blow torch division” for its habit of burning villages while people were still in their houses and shooting them if need be if they attempted to flee.
Might be a good idea to do some research before posting such ill-informed comments.
@@jjquinn2004 no it f--king isn't you liar. You do the damn research and stop being an idiot. You think "Joachim" isn't a 100% jewish name?! And you think those villages in Belarus weren't full of white christians? LOL. Wake up they've been lying to you.