🌹 "I never die!" 🌹 His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Reveals that His Consciousness is spread throughout all His Books. 🌼~"I am present in My Books." 🌼~"Just by reading My Books they are Initiated." 🌼~"My touch is just a formality. Anyone who follows My Instructions is My Disciple." 🌹 "Anyone anywhere who picks up one of His Books can get everything." BhaktiRakshak SridharMaharaj 🌹 From Jan 1, 1944 BackToGodhead Magazine ~ It is not necessary to pretend to be able to understand before we actually do. ~ 🌏🌎
(Part 2 of 2) GBC guru system apologist: Case Study of His Holiness Jayadvāita Swami Winter 1996 ... The law is not a law ... In his 1996 paper, Where the Ritvik People Are Wrong, JS refers to the following “law”, which is extracted from a private letter sent by Śrīla Prabhupāda to a deviant disciple: “But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession.” (Letter to Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, 2/12/75) JS then claims that due to this law the Ṛṭvik system would mean that: “Srila Prabhupada, in his last few months, reversed what he’d taught for the previous ten years”. (Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996) Again quoting this law he further goes on to say: “That a spiritual master initiates until his departure and then his disciples initiate next is the normal system. On this we are all in agreement. This is what Srila Prabhupada taught the entire time he was with us.” (Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996, emphasis added) However, a few years later, JS became one of the first people to break this law, when he allowed his own disciple, Kadamba Kānana Swami, to accept disciples in his presence, and further JS himself stopped initiating! So, according to his own words, it is not the Ṛṭvik system, but JS, who is reversing what Śrīla Prabhupāda taught for the previous ten years. He also has gone against what he claims is the normal system, and what he claims Śrīla Prabhupāda taught the entire time he was with us. Thus he has done a massive 180° turn in what he said previously and, by his own words, is now rejecting everything Śrīla Prabhupāda taught. This reversal from JS is understandable, since he agrees with the IRM that this “law” does not in any case provide proof that Śrīla Prabhupāda cannot continue as the Dīkṣā-guru for ISKCON. Referring to the letter to Tuṣṭa Krsna quoted above where the “law” is mentioned, JS states: “I accept that this quotation doesn’t “prove” that a departed acarya can’t initiate. I never said that it does.” (Jayadvāita Swami, 4th June, 2004) Referring to Śrīla Prabhupāda Last Will and Testament, where it states that all executive directors for the ISKCON properties in India must in perpetuity always be initiated disciples of Śrīla Prabhupāda, JS agrees with the IRM that: “the will is signed by Srila Prabhupada, and it clearly says that each successor director should be Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciple.” (Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996) This, of course, can only happen if the Ṛṭvik system is in place for all times in ISKCON, and therefore every future devotee becomes “Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciple.” Challenging this direct evidence for the Ṛṭvik system in ISKCON, JS states the following: “And ultimately one can become not only his disciple in spirit but his “initiated disciple” through the guru-parampara system.” (Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996) JS states that one becomes Śrīla Prabhupada’s initiated disciple through the Guru-paramparā system. In a subsequent paper JS states the Ṛṭvik system brings: “an end to the parampara system” (Where the Ritvik People are Wrong Again, Jayadvāita Swami, 1998) JS claims that, one becoming Śrīla Prabhupāda initiated disciple (which is the effect of the Ṛṭvik system), brings an end to the Paramparā system. But we have also just seen JS claim that one also becomes Śrīla Prabhupāda initiated disciple through the “Guru-paramparā system”, and this is identical in effect to the Ṛṭvik system and, therefore, according to JS’s words, should also have the same result as the Ṛṭvik system, namely, to bring an end to the Paramparā system. Therefore JS’s words lead to the conclusion that the Paramparā system ends the Paramparā system! This is not just a 180° reversal, but a real 360° head-spinner. Not clear, yet very clear Turning to the GBC’s key piece of evidence, the May 28th, 1977 www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/tfo.htm#May28RC conversation (see BTP 3), JS again presents a very contradictory position. The conversation begins with Śrīla Prabhupāda stating he will appoint Ṛṭviks when asked how initiations will continue, “particularly at that time” when he is “no longer with us”. Then, asked if those initiated by such a system are his disciples, Śrīla Prabhupāda answers unequivocally, “Yes, they are disciples.” These statements clearly contradict the GBC’s position and, therefore, to try and explain them away, JS offers the following gobbledygook: “I sense a kind of merging here, because Prabhupada’s talking about ‘ritvik acaryas, I’ll appoint officiating gurus’ - it’s almost like sliding into one. Therefore it’s mergy in the middle there. […] So there’s a kind of a blending there where he’s talking about ‘regular guru’. […] I should point out that this was fairly characteristic of conversations with Srila Prabhupada. Things were not always clear…so this was a fairly typical, cloudy response. “So they may also be considered your disciples.” “Yes, they are disciples.” That’s a very mystifying sort of answer. It didn’t quite clinch the question.” (Questions and Answers, Jayadvāita Swami, ISKCON South London, 1993) So, as soon as Śrīla Prabhupāda does not say what the GBC want, JS claims Śrīla Prabhupāda speaking is “mergy”, “sliding into one”, “blending”, “not always clear”, “cloudy” and “mystifying”. And, to add insult to injury, for good measure JS helpfully adds that this is “fairly characteristic of conversations with Srila Prabhupada”! And Śrīla Prabhupāda stating unequivocally that, “Yes, they are disciples”, supposedly “didn’t quite clinch the question” - obviously not, since it was not the reply the future guru hoaxers wanted to hear! Yet truly “mystifying” is JS’s next assertion that, having just considered most of the conversation completely unclear, as soon as we get to the last sentence where Śrīla Prabhupāda mentions the magic “guru” word - “he becomes regular guru” - JS states: “but by the end it’s very clear” (Questions and Answers, Jayadvaita Swami, ISKCON South London, 1993) So from this we learn the following rule from the JS school of understanding Śrīla Prabhupāda's instructions. If Śrīla Prabhupāda states something which contradicts your position, label it as being “unclear”, “cloudy”, “mergy”, “mystifying”, etc., and that this is “fairly characteristic” of Śrīla Prabhupāda's conversations. If, however, 5 seconds later, in the same conversation, you spot something that you think may help your position, do a 180° turn, and suddenly declare that now it is “very clear” (of course, it does not actually help his position for, as we have pointed out, Śrīla Prabhupada states that “he becomes regular guru” only “when I order” - an order Śrīla Prabhupāda never gave). Openness and honesty In his 1996 paper, Where the Ritvik People are Right, though JS states that the Ṛṭvik position is wrong philosophically, he does concede that we are right to raise certain points. He then very eloquently enumerates many of these points (so well enumerated that, as BTP readers will know, we often quote him!), and ends by stating: “The spiritual leaders of ISKCON ought to recognize the importance of these questions and deal with them honestly, openly, sincerely, and deeply.” (Where the Ritvik People are Right, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996) A very commendable suggestion. However, we have already noted JS’s own contribution to dealing with these same questions “honestly” and “openly”. He organises for devotees to snatch back copies of BTP from devotees who have voluntarily accepted them. How is preventing devotees from reading the arguments for themselves, and making up their own minds, dealing with the questions raised against the GBC guru system “openly and honestly”? Conclusion We do not want this analysis to detract from Jayadvāita Mahārāja's outspokenness on the GBC’s other positions, where we are in agreement with Mahārāja, in particular his excellent attack on ISKCON’s lurch towards philanthropy, that he gives in his “Food for Death” seminar. But he needs to drop his fruitless and self-defeating attempted defence of the GBC’s guru system, and we invite Mahārāja to work together with the IRM on the positions we have in common. Due to lack of space, we have only given a glimpse here into Mahārāja's futile defence of the GBC’s guru system. Return to Jayadvāita Swami Index www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/js_index.htm Return to iskconirm homepage: iskconirm.com Please chant: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare And be Happy! (End Part 2 of 2) No.1GBC guru system apologist: Case Study of His Holiness Jayadvāita Swami Winter 1996
His facial expression, the teeth especially, tells you the body prepare to the next from, a form of an ass obviously, a special grant for being a smart rascal devoted wholeheartedly, agree, to destroy the legacy of the light bearing Holly Law books for the Golden age of the current age of Kali
Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee. He doesn't commit errors, but he gave the opportunity for spiritual growth to some rascals who chose to betray him and hijack his mission.
Haribol it is always the greatest pleasure to hear about Srila Prabhupada 🙏
🌹 "I never die!" 🌹
His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Reveals that His Consciousness is spread throughout all His Books.
🌼~"I am present in My Books."
🌼~"Just by reading My Books they are Initiated."
🌼~"My touch is just a formality. Anyone who follows My Instructions is My Disciple."
🌹
"Anyone anywhere who picks up one of His Books can get everything."
BhaktiRakshak SridharMaharaj
🌹
From Jan 1, 1944
BackToGodhead Magazine
~ It is not necessary to pretend to be able to understand before we actually do. ~
🌏🌎
Imagine how not required means no, but somehow, don't change my books means yes, make all the changes you like. 🤪
The book changer agtsacbsp HARI GURU Y VAISNAVAS KI YAI
(Part 2 of 2)
GBC guru system apologist:
Case Study of His Holiness
Jayadvāita Swami
Winter 1996
... The law is not a law
... In his 1996 paper, Where the Ritvik People Are Wrong, JS refers to the following “law”, which is extracted from a private letter sent by Śrīla Prabhupāda to a deviant disciple:
“But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession.”
(Letter to Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, 2/12/75)
JS then claims that due to this law the Ṛṭvik system would mean that:
“Srila Prabhupada, in his last few months, reversed what he’d taught for the previous ten years”.
(Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996)
Again quoting this law he further goes on to say:
“That a spiritual master initiates until his departure and then his disciples initiate next is the normal system.
On this we are all in agreement. This is what Srila Prabhupada taught the entire time he was with us.”
(Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996, emphasis added)
However, a few years later, JS became one of the first people to break this law, when he allowed his own disciple, Kadamba Kānana Swami, to accept disciples in his presence, and further JS himself stopped initiating!
So, according to his own words, it is not the Ṛṭvik system, but JS, who is reversing what Śrīla Prabhupāda taught for the previous ten years. He also has gone against what he claims is the normal system, and what he claims Śrīla Prabhupāda taught the entire time he was with us. Thus he has done a massive 180° turn in what he said previously and, by his own words, is now rejecting everything Śrīla Prabhupāda taught.
This reversal from JS is understandable, since he agrees with the IRM that this “law” does not in any case provide proof that Śrīla Prabhupāda cannot continue as the Dīkṣā-guru for ISKCON. Referring to the letter to Tuṣṭa Krsna quoted above where the “law” is mentioned, JS states:
“I accept that this quotation doesn’t “prove” that a departed acarya can’t initiate. I never said that it does.”
(Jayadvāita Swami, 4th June, 2004)
Referring to Śrīla Prabhupāda Last Will and Testament, where it states that all executive directors for the ISKCON properties in India must in perpetuity always be initiated disciples of Śrīla Prabhupāda, JS agrees with the IRM that:
“the will is signed by Srila Prabhupada, and it clearly says that each successor director should be Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciple.”
(Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996)
This, of course, can only happen if the Ṛṭvik system is in place for all times in ISKCON, and therefore every future devotee becomes “Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciple.”
Challenging this direct evidence for the Ṛṭvik system in ISKCON, JS states the following:
“And ultimately one can become not only his disciple in spirit but his “initiated disciple” through the guru-parampara system.”
(Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996)
JS states that one becomes Śrīla Prabhupada’s initiated disciple through the Guru-paramparā system.
In a subsequent paper JS states the Ṛṭvik system brings:
“an end to the parampara system”
(Where the Ritvik People are Wrong Again, Jayadvāita Swami, 1998)
JS claims that, one becoming Śrīla Prabhupāda initiated disciple (which is the effect of the Ṛṭvik system), brings an end to the Paramparā system. But we have also just seen JS claim that one also becomes Śrīla Prabhupāda initiated disciple through the “Guru-paramparā system”, and this is identical in effect to the Ṛṭvik system and, therefore, according to JS’s words, should also have the same result as the Ṛṭvik system, namely, to bring an end to the Paramparā system.
Therefore JS’s words lead to the conclusion that the Paramparā system ends the Paramparā system!
This is not just a 180° reversal, but a real 360° head-spinner.
Not clear, yet very clear
Turning to the GBC’s key piece of evidence, the May 28th, 1977
www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/tfo.htm#May28RC
conversation (see BTP 3), JS again presents a very contradictory position. The conversation begins with Śrīla Prabhupāda stating he will appoint Ṛṭviks when asked how initiations will continue, “particularly at that time” when he is “no longer with us”. Then, asked if those initiated by such a system are his disciples, Śrīla Prabhupāda answers unequivocally, “Yes, they are disciples.”
These statements clearly contradict the GBC’s position and, therefore, to try and explain them away, JS offers the following gobbledygook:
“I sense a kind of merging here, because Prabhupada’s talking about ‘ritvik acaryas, I’ll appoint officiating gurus’ - it’s almost like sliding into one. Therefore it’s mergy in the middle there. […] So there’s a kind of a blending there where he’s talking about ‘regular guru’. […]
I should point out that this was fairly characteristic of conversations with Srila Prabhupada.
Things were not always clear…so this was a fairly typical, cloudy response.
“So they may also be considered your disciples.” “Yes, they are disciples.” That’s a very mystifying sort of answer. It didn’t quite clinch the question.”
(Questions and Answers, Jayadvāita Swami, ISKCON South London, 1993)
So, as soon as Śrīla Prabhupāda does not say what the GBC want, JS claims Śrīla Prabhupāda speaking is “mergy”, “sliding into one”, “blending”, “not always clear”, “cloudy” and “mystifying”. And, to add insult to injury, for good measure JS helpfully adds that this is “fairly characteristic of conversations with Srila Prabhupada”!
And Śrīla Prabhupāda stating unequivocally that, “Yes, they are disciples”, supposedly “didn’t quite clinch the question” - obviously not, since it was not the reply the future guru hoaxers wanted to hear!
Yet truly “mystifying” is JS’s next assertion that, having just considered most of the conversation completely unclear, as soon as we get to the last sentence where Śrīla Prabhupāda mentions the magic “guru” word - “he becomes regular guru” - JS states:
“but by the end it’s very clear”
(Questions and Answers, Jayadvaita Swami, ISKCON South London, 1993)
So from this we learn the following rule from the JS school of understanding Śrīla Prabhupāda's instructions. If Śrīla Prabhupāda states something which contradicts your position, label it as being “unclear”, “cloudy”, “mergy”, “mystifying”, etc., and that this is “fairly characteristic” of Śrīla Prabhupāda's conversations. If, however, 5 seconds later, in the same conversation, you spot something that you think may help your position, do a 180° turn, and suddenly declare that now it is “very clear” (of course, it does not actually help his position for, as we have pointed out, Śrīla Prabhupada states that “he becomes regular guru” only “when I order” - an order Śrīla Prabhupāda never gave).
Openness and honesty
In his 1996 paper, Where the Ritvik People are Right, though JS states that the Ṛṭvik position is wrong philosophically, he does concede that we are right to raise certain points. He then very eloquently enumerates many of these points (so well enumerated that, as BTP readers will know, we often quote him!), and ends by stating:
“The spiritual leaders of ISKCON ought to recognize the importance of these questions and deal with them honestly, openly, sincerely, and deeply.”
(Where the Ritvik People are Right, Jayadvāita Swami, 1996)
A very commendable suggestion.
However, we have already noted JS’s own contribution to dealing with these same questions “honestly” and “openly”. He organises for devotees to snatch back copies of BTP from devotees who have voluntarily accepted them. How is preventing devotees from reading the arguments for themselves, and making up their own minds, dealing with the questions raised against the GBC guru system “openly and honestly”?
Conclusion
We do not want this analysis to detract from Jayadvāita Mahārāja's outspokenness on the GBC’s other positions, where we are in agreement with Mahārāja, in particular his excellent attack on ISKCON’s lurch towards philanthropy, that he gives in his “Food for Death” seminar. But he needs to drop his fruitless and self-defeating attempted defence of the GBC’s guru system, and we invite Mahārāja to work together with the IRM on the positions we have in common.
Due to lack of space, we have only given a glimpse here into Mahārāja's futile defence of the GBC’s guru system.
Return to Jayadvāita Swami Index
www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/js_index.htm
Return to iskconirm homepage:
iskconirm.com
Please chant:
Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare,
Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare
And be Happy!
(End Part 2 of 2)
No.1GBC guru system apologist:
Case Study of His Holiness
Jayadvāita Swami
Winter 1996
Please I beg you please send me the link for the Kirtans at the start of these videos.
Hare Krishna
czcams.com/video/ZwUTZ5DHsAo/video.html Song 1
Namo Om Vishnu Padaya
czcams.com/video/7jl15W4G81s/video.html Song 6
His facial expression, the teeth especially, tells you the body prepare to the next from, a form of an ass obviously, a special grant for being a smart rascal devoted wholeheartedly, agree, to destroy the legacy of the light bearing Holly Law books for the Golden age of the current age of Kali
It was Shrila Prabhupada's tragic error that he accepted this devotee as his desciple . Spiritual master was betrayed . Very disappointing talk !
Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee. He doesn't commit errors, but he gave the opportunity for spiritual growth to some rascals who chose to betray him and hijack his mission.