Lucien Carr is so fascinating! He lived longer than Ginsberg, yet there is no information about him anywhere. If I had the choice between interviewing Ginsberg and Carr, I would definitely pick Carr
i don´t know why, but i´m hopelessly fascinated by lucien. his story is so unclear, nobody knows for sure what happened that night in the parc. of course lucien would deny any relationship with kammerer but there were some people claiming that if carr never showed any interest, kammerer would have given up sooner. just the thought that we´ll never know drives me crazy.
***** well there is this book called "and the hippos were boiled in their tanks" von 2 beat-autoren, die geschichte ist zwar erfunden, aber wenn man genau liest, geht es um lucien (:
***** woops sorry, i´m always answering in 2 languages and i got them mixed up :D again in englisch: it´s by 2 beats-authors, jack and someone else, the story is made up but if you read carefully, you see that it´s really about lucien.
I don’t see how anyone can blame Lucien for David Kammerer. Those people who claim that if he never showed interest then Kammerer wouldn’t have been so obsessed. He was an adult and when they met Lucien was only 12. Lucien moved away multiple times to get away from him and Kammerer followed him.
There's no evidence that David Kammerer molested that closet case nor that he was following him around the country lol. Nothing but homophobic bs in this comment section ugh. The truth is Carr had a long, abusive relationship with David (the abuser being Carr) including sponging off him whenever expected and demanding he wrote his midterm papers for him. Even David's friend said Carr showed up one day and tried to barge into David's place, David socked him in the mouth and told him to stay out never to come here. He told his friend not to bring that "b*st*rd around here again. I don’t want him around." Not exactly the mentality of someone who is supposedly an obsessive stalker. David was more than hospitable to Carr, but he had enough and didn't want him in his life. Carr likely realised David wasn't under his control, I think he was jealous because people preferred the company of David over Carr. He wanted to kill him then played the victim. He was an fug narcissistic talentless POS. That's all.
@@jackiebeat8606 incorrect, there is Ample Proof that David had a Sexual Obsession towards Lucien Carr, Lucien was at the age of 12 when David and Lucien Meant David Kammerer was a Scout master of 23 and took a interest in him more then he should have, but it seems like someone always blames the Victim of Child Abuse for Lashing out in self Defense, I'm a Beat historian and I looked and researched all of this up, shaming and Blaming Carr, isn't gonna make this less true. David Kammerer even had a Jealously towards Lucien girl friends Céline Young, David Claimed he Loved Lucien and Couldn't live without him. Many people of abuse that Carr suffered as I read and been reading the Beats, and Ginsberg Journal even Edie Parker said David was a Creep that always asking for Carr. I know more of the facts 💯 David an Older adult men had No Business around a Minor Child does that make sense. Because that's when they meant. Thou Lucien a 19 year old killed Kammerer a 30 something year old man. Because Kammerer never stopped following Carr, plus if Lucien was a Homopbic he wouldn't be friends with Allen Ginsberg who is actually gay. Come on get real, a Man can stalk another guy, stop ✋ acting like something never happened
I utterly fascinated by Lucien carr after I read the story about him. He had been suffered by many things and I can understand him since I have suffered with similar things with him. I especially love his Egotistic aspect, thoughts & theories. Thx for the vid this helped me to understand lucien carr even more
Chloe Hong do reading research on Wikipedia, Google books news papers you'll get bits and pieces, for one Lucien Carr was a 11 year old boy scout and David Kammerer was a scoutmaster seems that David took interest in him more then he should have and then David Kammerer followed Carr from school to school, sexually David was Obsessed with this kid David was like 27.
David Kammerer is a Obsessed Stalker who was in love with Carr when it all begain in st.Louis LucienCarr a 12 year old boyscout and Kammerer a scoutmaster yep I agree, but it ain't no coindence why Carr killed him
I'm sorry but many of you claim that David was the victim and Lucien was the abuser. Now why the hell would David stalk Lu since he was a 13 year old child and follow him all over the states for like 6 years if he hated him. Make it make sense.
Before I even knew about the Lucien Carr/David Kammerer story I saw that picture of Carr with Ginsberg & Co and I instantly thought Carr was a creep. After learning about David Kammerer from his close-friend (Patricia Healy) it's clear to me why I had such a response. Everything written about David's murder paints him as this supposed villain; the "older predator who was stalking a innocent youth," so obvious in its homophobic intent but yet so far removed from the actual truth. It's unbelievable how much they really decimated his character, even William Burroughs, a childhood friend of David's, dragged him through the mud (along with Kerouac) and took part in destroying evidence of his murder. Ugh! Some friend. Thank God for Healy for speaking the truth, it really made me see Kerouac in a different light. Kerouac/Carr were nothing but leeches who took advantage of David, sponged off his inspiring intellect and generosity then made him seem like nothing more than a "hanger-on" of the Beat movement, who can say for sure how much of an impact he had on the early Beat movement but it's said people naturally gravitated towards him, of course as a teacher he had that appeal, one thing for sure is he had more to offer to the world than that little twerp Carr. Perhaps that's why Carr killed him because he knew deep down he wasn't worth what a pig could spit.
Carr killed him because he knew deep down he wasn't worth what a pig could spit." I think you nailed it on the head with that one. Carr probably realised he couldn't manipulate Kammerer anymore, the deep resentment must have set in once he lost his hold on him thus what lead to the murder. Kammerer had a small cult following of his own. They made him sound seedy like he was hiding in darks corner somewhere. Like what his friend said they liked being around him more than Carr.
I always Thought of David Kammerer as a Creep since I found Proof that David Kammer stalked Carr plus I found some bits n Pieces about this story that Jack Kerouac and William Burroughs talked about in the hippos were boiled in there tanks. So idk why would I believe what Patricia Healy said about it when she only known kammerer for such a Lil time Burroughs known David Kammerer Longer and Even Burroughs said that What David Said Kammerer always Sneak into Carrs room while he was Sleeping and watch him Sleep for half an Hour. And that's in the Biographys so Plus if you read Edie Parker book you'll be okay my life with Jack Kerouac even she said Kammerer was a Pest and always wanting to know where Lucien Carr was. I mean C'ON
I stopped when the narrator stupidly and emphatically referred to “David Kammerer “as “David Kramer or “ Kramerer” and “Rimbaud” as “Rimbod”. Pretty bad.
I knew Lucian’s son Simon in college in the early 70’s and probably met Caleb at Simon’s parent’s apartment where a bunch of us slept over. I found about his father’s murder case reading Ann Charters Kerouac biography and asked Simon about it. Don’t remember what he said about it. Never met Lucian, but when I was staying over there was a call that he got into a car accident.
From a note on Caleb Carr's Wikipedia article's talk page: In order to bring the article in line with the Wikipedia article on Lucien Carr, I added information from the latter’s article. The way the article read beforehand, it makes it seem unchallenged that Caleb’s assertion that his father had been sexually molested by Kammerer is a statement of fact while the McNally biography of Kouerac material, included in Lucien’s article, states that such seemed to have been denied by no less an eminent source than Lucien Carr himself. From reading Caleb Carr’s response to Kill Your Darlings in The Daily Caller, one gets the impression that Caleb never actually discussed such matters with his father as Caleb refers to his “piecing things together.” Caleb and his father had had a tumultuous relationship according to Caleb himself and might not have been on an emotional footing to discuss such deeply personal matters. Judging by several accounts of Kammerer’s behavior towards Lucien from the time the two met when Lucien was twelve, it seems likely in the extreme that Kammerer had been a pedophile. However, it is possible that Kamemerer, assuming he had had an unnatural sexual attraction to the boy (it might have been strictly a romantic infatuation, at least at first) managed to restrain himself out of fear of criminal and societal repercussions and losing Lucien in the process, contenting himself with the boy’s/teen’s company as his metaphorical “high. Addendum: From The Daily Caller article: "I guess what I’m saying, in sum, is that you’re right to consider my father the victim of a sustained campaign of criminal child abuse, and that is the real story behind 'the murder that united the Beats.' The irony about the movie, of course, is that the true story, insofar as I have pieced it together - and that’s as close, as I say, as anyone connected thinks it can be to reality...." --Caleb Carr.
litwriter100 yep I know it, Read old news papers about it from the internet and Books by jack Kerouac he based on his Friend's, even though they are several times Kammerer have actually Has been a pessed and is always asking where is Carr, do you think Kammerer was a Perve or do you think Lucien is Lying, I read the Dailey callar it made a bit of sense if you been through that kind of Harassment, and though we don't know for sure about what happened that night, I've read that Kammerer couldn't never keep away from him so whatever you think is good to and also you can get some bits and peases from and the hippos were boild in there tanks book based on them ?!
In accordance with the Wikipedia note that I posted, I most definitely believe that Kammerer was a pervert. However, while his relationship with Lucien Carr was certainly unnatural, I also believe it had been platonic as Lucien Carr himself was reported to have asserted and which William Burroughs was reported to have believed. As such, I find it curious that after so many years of successful self-restraint that Kammerer would suddenly reveal his true colors in a NYC public park (even if early in the pre-dawn morning). One thing seems certain, pervert or not, Carr was not above taking advantage of the older man’s apparent infatuation with him. If he considered Kammerer to have been a menace to him, or even just a pest, he didn’t appear to try very hard to rid himself of Kammerer before that night.
litwriter100 David Kammerer Must have took it to far and Perhaps he couldn't stand retraining himself from Lucien Carr I think maybe Kammerer did try to rape Carr that night, people who are victims of sex abuse that possibly Carr have faced when he was a kid Carr was scared to tell people like other's know and then who go threw the same thing. i read that Lucien's mum found Desperat Letters from Kammerer so that's why Marion Carr, Lucien's mum moved him to different Schools/College's that's something must have been admiss, and also finally Carr Reached his Breaking Point.
Lilly, as I said, I have little doubt that Kammerer's feelings for Lucien Carr were indeed unnatural . However, regarding the killing of Kemmerer by Carr, I am skeptical of Carr’s account of an “honor killing”; that he was fending off an attempted sexual assault by his victim. Lucien Carr had a history of mental instability. He was found with his head in a gas oven while a student in Chicago which he explained as “performance art.” (He was subsequently committed to a mental health facility for a few months which got him out of the WW II draft.) Though it is rank speculation, perhaps he chose that night, perhaps on impulse, for another round of “performance art”; or perhaps he had just tired of his “thing” with Kammerer having milked the relationship dry. I too have read of the desperate letters from Kammerer to Lucien Carr that Carr’s mother described . As I said, I have no doubt that Kammerer’s feelings for Carr were unnatural but that in and of itself does not necessarily prove that he had sexually molested Carr when he was a boy or teen. In case you haven’t read this, here is an account by a woman who had been a college student in NYC at the time. I take this with a grain of salt as it sounds to me that this then young woman had been attracted to David Kammerer. He wasn’t a bad looking man and was erudite and sophisticated, just the sort a young university coed would have swooned over. Her “evidence” that Kammerer was heterosexual seems slight. His pursuit (by her account) of a “kept woman” on a singular occasion might have been what gay people refer to as “beard” activity; i.e., a performance by Kammerer for her benefit. However, her letter to NYC magazine does offer a different perspective of the relationship between Carr and Kammerer and is interesting. See: “Who really gave birth to the Beats” a little ways down the article by the woman's son. www.chezjim.com/Mom/beatniks.html
litwriter100 okay, lol I'm getting all Confused know, though I also read about Carr's time in Chicago, but what I'm trying to understand and dig deeper into it and figure out if Kammerer was gay and a Pervert, you just said you also think kammerer is a Pervert, Lucien Carr was found as Handsome to the nature of the relationship or friendship between the two is rather something then nothing, but yeah I get what you're saying this is just my theory it would be interesting to know if David Kammerer was Homosexual or not spiked the fact his behavior, maybe Carr try to hurt himself because David wouldn't Leave him alone, but that's just my curiosity I'm trying to make sense of it, the Carr Kammerer Thing and Davids Obsession towards Lucien Carr ? and while Carr also had a girlfriend named Celine Young, i think i Read that article I also Read she was a friend of kam, Pat or whatever but yeah I read that news paper and I read Google books a about it And every side of each story from friend's Edie Parker said kammerer was a pest always asking where is Carr. though some peeps don't admint that they are gay, and Carr's birth place is NYC and kammerers is st. Louis, Carr's mum moved him to a town always from the city and that where kam meant Carr through the Boy's scouts Carr was a scout, and kam the Leader. unless its false spiked the fact Carr had a scout knife
Why didn't you have the common sense and courtesy to pronounce correctly "Rimbaud" (0:41), "Greenwich" (0:58"), "philosophical" (1:13), and "Kammerer" (2:39)?
I watched kill you darlings and now I'm hooked on Lucien Carr.
Yes and Dane did a great job as Lucien Carr
You know me too buddy
Same here
Lucien Carr is so fascinating! He lived longer than Ginsberg, yet there is no information about him anywhere. If I had the choice between interviewing Ginsberg and Carr, I would definitely pick Carr
Myself Nobody I would interview Lucien Carr to I mean if he didn't die in is old days in 2005, he was a Goodlooking man for sure what you think.
Myself Nobody he's CUTE is he
Kayla Clark he was good looking, and he knew it. I just love imagining how he viewed himself
Myself Nobody is it okay if I ask are you a guy or girl, just curious ? *:-) Lu♡carr
Kayla Clark I loathe Kamerrer! He deserved what he got
i don´t know why, but i´m hopelessly fascinated by lucien. his story is so unclear, nobody knows for sure what happened that night in the parc. of course lucien would deny any relationship with kammerer but there were some people claiming that if carr never showed any interest, kammerer would have given up sooner. just the thought that we´ll never know drives me crazy.
***** it´s litterary killing me that i will never know if they were a couple or not.
***** well there is this book called "and the hippos were boiled in their tanks" von 2 beat-autoren, die geschichte ist zwar erfunden, aber wenn man genau liest, geht es um lucien (:
***** woops sorry, i´m always answering in 2 languages and i got them mixed up :D
again in englisch: it´s by 2 beats-authors, jack and someone else, the story is made up but if you read carefully, you see that it´s really about lucien.
***** no, it´s now "howl", it´s by Jack Kerouac and William S. Burroughs (:
***** yes, i know. many scientists who deal with the beat generation say that they write about lucien (:
I don’t see how anyone can blame Lucien for David Kammerer. Those people who claim that if he never showed interest then Kammerer wouldn’t have been so obsessed. He was an adult and when they met Lucien was only 12. Lucien moved away multiple times to get away from him and Kammerer followed him.
There's no evidence that David Kammerer molested that closet case nor that he was following him around the country lol. Nothing but homophobic bs in this comment section ugh. The truth is Carr had a long, abusive relationship with David (the abuser being Carr) including sponging off him whenever expected and demanding he wrote his midterm papers for him. Even David's friend said Carr showed up one day and tried to barge into David's place, David socked him in the mouth and told him to stay out never to come here. He told his friend not to bring that "b*st*rd around here again. I don’t want him around." Not exactly the mentality of someone who is supposedly an obsessive stalker. David was more than hospitable to Carr, but he had enough and didn't want him in his life. Carr likely realised David wasn't under his control, I think he was jealous because people preferred the company of David over Carr. He wanted to kill him then played the victim. He was an fug narcissistic talentless POS. That's all.
@Jackie Beat, Quite right you are. 👏👏👏
@@jackiebeat8606 incorrect, there is Ample Proof that David had a Sexual Obsession towards Lucien Carr, Lucien was at the age of 12 when David and Lucien Meant David Kammerer was a Scout master of 23 and took a interest in him more then he should have, but it seems like someone always blames the Victim of Child Abuse for Lashing out in self Defense, I'm a Beat historian and I looked and researched all of this up, shaming and Blaming Carr, isn't gonna make this less true. David Kammerer even had a Jealously towards Lucien girl friends Céline Young, David Claimed he Loved Lucien and Couldn't live without him. Many people of abuse that Carr suffered as I read and been reading the Beats, and Ginsberg Journal even Edie Parker said David was a Creep that always asking for Carr. I know more of the facts 💯 David an Older adult men had No Business around a Minor Child does that make sense. Because that's when they meant. Thou Lucien a 19 year old killed Kammerer a 30 something year old man. Because Kammerer never stopped following Carr, plus if Lucien was a Homopbic he wouldn't be friends with Allen Ginsberg who is actually gay. Come on get real, a Man can stalk another guy, stop ✋ acting like something never happened
@@jackiebeat8606 I've Read there is Evidence that Kammerer stalked Carr if you read Bidwell hollow
I utterly fascinated by Lucien carr after I read the story about him. He had been suffered by many things and I can understand him since I have suffered with similar things with him. I especially love his Egotistic aspect, thoughts & theories. Thx for the vid this helped me to understand lucien carr even more
Chloe Hong do reading research on Wikipedia, Google books news papers you'll get bits and pieces, for one Lucien Carr was a 11 year old boy scout and David Kammerer was a scoutmaster seems that David took interest in him more then he should have and then David Kammerer followed Carr from school to school, sexually David was Obsessed with this kid David was like 27.
David Kammerer is a Stalker who was in Love with Lucien Carr.
@a Are you a fool or are you just pretending?
more like obsessed
Lucien Carr was the glu
David Kammerer is a Obsessed Stalker who was in love with Carr when it all begain in st.Louis LucienCarr a 12 year old boyscout and Kammerer a scoutmaster yep I agree, but it ain't no coindence why Carr killed him
I Love LUCIEN CARR
Then you'll love the film called "Kill Your Darlings".
He kinda killed people
@@madisonjames7170 he was kinda stalked 😐😐
@@adamstanheightkinnie he kinda abused his ex-wife and children🙃
@@elio7114 ok? good for him
this guy needs some serious coaching on pronunciation of people and place names!
You are absolutely right.
+Kevin Johnson For what it's worth, your pronunciations had me laughing sooooo hard it made the video both entertaining AND informative! Well done.
Thank you! Procrastination leads to bad pronunciation.
lucien deserved better tbh
I'm sorry but many of you claim that David was the victim and Lucien was the abuser. Now why the hell would David stalk Lu since he was a 13 year old child and follow him all over the states for like 6 years if he hated him. Make it make sense.
I visited David’s grave today, which is less than a quarter of a mile from William S Burroughs grave.
Before I even knew about the Lucien Carr/David Kammerer story I saw that picture of Carr with Ginsberg & Co and I instantly thought Carr was a creep. After learning about David Kammerer from his close-friend (Patricia Healy) it's clear to me why I had such a response. Everything written about David's murder paints him as this supposed villain; the "older predator who was stalking a innocent youth," so obvious in its homophobic intent but yet so far removed from the actual truth. It's unbelievable how much they really decimated his character, even William Burroughs, a childhood friend of David's, dragged him through the mud (along with Kerouac) and took part in destroying evidence of his murder. Ugh! Some friend. Thank God for Healy for speaking the truth, it really made me see Kerouac in a different light. Kerouac/Carr were nothing but leeches who took advantage of David, sponged off his inspiring intellect and generosity then made him seem like nothing more than a "hanger-on" of the Beat movement, who can say for sure how much of an impact he had on the early Beat movement but it's said people naturally gravitated towards him, of course as a teacher he had that appeal, one thing for sure is he had more to offer to the world than that little twerp Carr. Perhaps that's why Carr killed him because he knew deep down he wasn't worth what a pig could spit.
Carr killed him because he knew deep down he wasn't worth what a pig could spit." I think you nailed it on the head with that one. Carr probably realised he couldn't manipulate Kammerer anymore, the deep resentment must have set in once he lost his hold on him thus what lead to the murder. Kammerer had a small cult following of his own. They made him sound seedy like he was hiding in darks corner somewhere. Like what his friend said they liked being around him more than Carr.
And Since Lucien Carr was a child when David Kammerer took Obsession and Stalking to him, does make Kammerer a Pedophile.
I always Thought of David Kammerer as a Creep since I found Proof that David Kammer stalked Carr plus I found some bits n Pieces about this story that Jack Kerouac and William Burroughs talked about in the hippos were boiled in there tanks. So idk why would I believe what Patricia Healy said about it when she only known kammerer for such a Lil time Burroughs known David Kammerer Longer and Even Burroughs said that What David Said Kammerer always Sneak into Carrs room while he was Sleeping and watch him Sleep for half an Hour. And that's in the Biographys so Plus if you read Edie Parker book you'll be okay my life with Jack Kerouac even she said Kammerer was a Pest and always wanting to know where Lucien Carr was. I mean C'ON
Rim-bode and Creamer?
Very nice and clear! Love this perfect made resources! :)
I stopped when the narrator stupidly and emphatically referred to “David Kammerer “as “David Kramer or “ Kramerer” and “Rimbaud” as “Rimbod”. Pretty bad.
I knew Lucian’s son Simon in college in the early 70’s and probably met Caleb at Simon’s parent’s apartment where a bunch of us slept over.
I found about his father’s murder case reading Ann Charters Kerouac biography and asked Simon about it. Don’t remember what he said about it.
Never met Lucian, but when I was staying over there was a call that he got into a car accident.
"KAMMER-RER." Just the way it is spelled.
who the fuck is rim bored
Cool
"Chel-se-ya ?" My God....
Allen and Lucien would be a cute couple, don't you think?
No*
Yes
From a note on Caleb Carr's Wikipedia article's talk page:
In order to bring the article in line with the Wikipedia article on Lucien Carr, I added information from the latter’s article. The way the article read beforehand, it makes it seem unchallenged that Caleb’s assertion that his father had been sexually molested by Kammerer is a statement of fact while the McNally biography of Kouerac material, included in Lucien’s article, states that such seemed to have been denied by no less an eminent source than Lucien Carr himself. From reading Caleb Carr’s response to Kill Your Darlings in The Daily Caller, one gets the impression that Caleb never actually discussed such matters with his father as Caleb refers to his “piecing things together.” Caleb and his father had had a tumultuous relationship according to Caleb himself and might not have been on an emotional footing to discuss such deeply personal matters.
Judging by several accounts of Kammerer’s behavior towards Lucien from the time the two met when Lucien was twelve, it seems likely in the extreme that Kammerer had been a pedophile. However, it is possible that Kamemerer, assuming he had had an unnatural sexual attraction to the boy (it might have been strictly a romantic infatuation, at least at first) managed to restrain himself out of fear of criminal and societal repercussions and losing Lucien in the process, contenting himself with the boy’s/teen’s company as his metaphorical “high.
Addendum: From The Daily Caller article:
"I guess what I’m saying, in sum, is that you’re right to consider my father the victim of a sustained campaign of criminal child abuse, and that is the real story behind 'the murder that united the Beats.' The irony about the movie, of course, is that the true story, insofar as I have pieced it together - and that’s as close, as I say, as anyone connected thinks it can be to reality...." --Caleb Carr.
litwriter100 yep I know it, Read old news papers about it from the internet and Books by jack Kerouac he based on his Friend's, even though they are several times Kammerer have actually Has been a pessed and is always asking where is Carr, do you think Kammerer was a Perve or do you think Lucien is Lying, I read the Dailey callar it made a bit of sense if you been through that kind of Harassment, and though we don't know for sure about what happened that night, I've read that Kammerer couldn't never keep away from him so whatever you think is good to and also you can get some bits and peases from and the hippos were boild in there tanks book based on them ?!
In accordance with the Wikipedia note that I posted, I most definitely believe that Kammerer was a pervert. However, while his relationship with Lucien Carr was certainly unnatural, I also believe it had been platonic as Lucien Carr himself was reported to have asserted and which William Burroughs was reported to have believed. As such, I find it curious that after so many years of successful self-restraint that Kammerer would suddenly reveal his true colors in a NYC public park (even if early in the pre-dawn morning). One thing seems certain, pervert or not, Carr was not above taking advantage of the older man’s apparent infatuation with him. If he considered Kammerer to have been a menace to him, or even just a pest, he didn’t appear to try very hard to rid himself of Kammerer before that night.
litwriter100 David Kammerer Must have took it to far and Perhaps he couldn't stand retraining himself from Lucien Carr I think maybe Kammerer did try to rape Carr that night, people who are victims of sex abuse that possibly Carr have faced when he was a kid Carr was scared to tell people like other's know and then who go threw the same thing. i read that Lucien's mum found Desperat Letters from Kammerer so that's why Marion Carr, Lucien's mum moved him to different Schools/College's that's something must have been admiss, and also finally Carr Reached his Breaking Point.
Lilly, as I said, I have little doubt that Kammerer's feelings for Lucien Carr were indeed unnatural . However, regarding the killing of Kemmerer by Carr, I am skeptical of Carr’s account of an “honor killing”; that he was fending off an attempted sexual assault by his victim.
Lucien Carr had a history of mental instability. He was found with his head in a gas oven while a student in Chicago which he explained as “performance art.” (He was subsequently committed to a mental health facility for a few months which got him out of the WW II draft.) Though it is rank speculation, perhaps he chose that night, perhaps on impulse, for another round of “performance art”; or perhaps he had just tired of his “thing” with Kammerer having milked the relationship dry.
I too have read of the desperate letters from Kammerer to Lucien Carr that Carr’s mother described . As I said, I have no doubt that Kammerer’s feelings for Carr were unnatural but that in and of itself does not necessarily prove that he had sexually molested Carr when he was a boy or teen.
In case you haven’t read this, here is an account by a woman who had been a college student in NYC at the time. I take this with a grain of salt as it sounds to me that this then young woman had been attracted to David Kammerer. He wasn’t a bad looking man and was erudite and sophisticated, just the sort a young university coed would have swooned over. Her “evidence” that Kammerer was heterosexual seems slight. His pursuit (by her account) of a “kept woman” on a singular occasion might have been what gay people refer to as “beard” activity; i.e., a performance by Kammerer for her benefit. However, her letter to NYC magazine does offer a different perspective of the relationship between Carr and Kammerer and is interesting. See: “Who really gave birth to the Beats” a little ways down the article by the woman's son.
www.chezjim.com/Mom/beatniks.html
litwriter100 okay, lol I'm getting all Confused know, though I also read about Carr's time in Chicago, but what I'm trying to understand and dig deeper into it and figure out if Kammerer was gay and a Pervert, you just said you also think kammerer is a Pervert, Lucien Carr was found as Handsome to the nature of the relationship or friendship between the two is rather something then nothing, but yeah I get what you're saying this is just my theory it would be interesting to know if David Kammerer was Homosexual or not spiked the fact his behavior, maybe Carr try to hurt himself because David wouldn't Leave him alone, but that's just my curiosity I'm trying to make sense of it, the Carr Kammerer Thing and Davids Obsession towards Lucien Carr ? and while Carr also had a girlfriend named Celine Young, i think i Read that article I also Read she was a friend of kam, Pat or whatever but yeah I read that news paper and I read Google books a about it And every side of each story from friend's Edie Parker said kammerer was a pest always asking where is Carr. though some peeps don't admint that they are gay, and Carr's birth place is NYC and kammerers is st. Louis, Carr's mum moved him to a town always from the city and that where kam meant Carr through the Boy's scouts Carr was a scout, and kam the Leader. unless its false spiked the fact Carr had a scout knife
And can you identify them?
“Green-witch Village.” Populated by green witches?
Honestly we can never know, Carr may have been abusive or Kammerer could have been an obsessive pervert, we don't know so don't say anything as fact.
Lucien on my vision that’s the only thing that’s tran
Why didn't you have the common sense and courtesy to pronounce correctly "Rimbaud" (0:41), "Greenwich" (0:58"), "philosophical" (1:13), and "Kammerer" (2:39)?
Because I was 19 when I made this for an undergrad project :).
Is David kammerer in this photo? And is Lucien Carr in it too
uh yeah just showed him the one with the Sig is Carr
What time?
Nearly unwatchable bcuz of pronunciation . Also naked lunch is not a narrative of Burroughs exploits..this video is garbage I'm afraid