Imperial Age Unique Techs Tier List | AoE2: DE
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Spoiler Alert: Atheism doesn't quite make S-tier.
In this video, we compare and rank the Imperial Age unique technologies for all 42 civilizations in AoE2: DE.
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Oh, I've been waiting for this one. Warwolf is a classic favourite for me, although with Trebs, you sometimes want to "rely" on their inaccuracy to blind hit some troops that are moving around.
Ok I guess I'll be "that guy"
2:05 Aztecs - Garland wars
2:53 Bengalis - Mahayana
3:44 Berbers - Maghrebi camels
4:17 Bohemians - Hussite reforms
5:09 Britons - Warwolf
6:06 Bulgarians - Bagains
7:03 Burgundians - Flemish revolution
7:49 Burmese - Manipur cavalry
8:52 Byzantines - Logistica
9:59 Celts - Furor celtica
10:54 Chinese - Rocketry
11:50 Cumans - Cuman mercenaries
12:44 Dravidians - Wootz steel
13:55 Ethiopians - Torsion engines
14:59 Franks - Chivalry
15:56 Goths - Perfusion
16:37 Gurjaras - Frontier guards
18:12 Hindustanis - Shatagni
19:19 Huns - Atheism
19:45 Incas - Fabric shields
20:43 Italians - Silk road
21:20 Japanese - Kataparuto
22:11 Khmer - Double crossbows
23:13 Koreans - Shinkichon
24:10 Lithuanians - Tower shields
25:20 Magyars - Recurve bow
26:37 Malay - Forced levy
27:56 Malians - Farimba
28:50 Mayans - El dorado
29:51 Mongols - Drill
30:42 Persians - Mahouts
31:11 Poles - Lechitic legacy
31:50 Portuguese - Arquebus
32:55 Saracens - Counterweights
33:22 Sicilians - Hauberk
34:18 Slavs - Druzhina
35:33 Spanish - Supremacy
36:24 Tatars - Timurid siegecraft
37:12 Teutons - Crenellations
38:25 Turks - Artillery
39:41 Vietnamese - Paper money
40:36 Vikings - Berserkergang
Thank you buddy but it’s already present in description . Next time check and update us
@@VickyCruz It wasn't when I wrote that. Thanks for useless comment
Flemish Revolution : S -Tier in power, D-Tier in design.
Nah its broken, just getting 100 vils and sending them t the enemy is tough
thank you so much for having labels for your civs in the tier list!
I've said before that Mahouts is just a tax on War Elephants. Just make it the civ bonus/make the damn things move faster and give the civ something else.
Any unique tech that just affects a unique unit feels like poor design. Mahouts, royal heirs, bearded axe, bezerkergang, just make you wonder why their effect isn't already a part of the unit or the elite upgrade, and ends up feeling like a tax on the unit and a wasted unique tech slot. Logistica you can maybe call an exception because trample damage fundamentally changes how the unit operates instead of being just a stat upgrade but it still doesn't feel great.
@@trmn8tr3737 Fully agree. Mahouts is just the most egregious because War Elephants are pants, so they pretty much need it to even function.
@@trmn8tr3737 Absolutely agreed. The only one out of the ones you listed that'd I'd also consider a bit of an exception is Royal Heirs since it doesn't affect the unit itself but rather the training time and isn't always something you need to go for if you are using the unit
@@trmn8tr3737 I think I'm okay with Corvinian Army being an exception to that, just because putting those kinds of stats on a trash unit is so strong that it should have a tax on it.
@@teddyhaines6613 Unique techs that change the rules of how unique units work do make sense as unique techs. Corvinian army allows you to make trash UU, anarchy and marauders allows you to make the UU at barracks and stables.
I've been playing a lot lately with dravidians and I can confirm WootzSteel is insane. Can beat easily any cavalry/infantry civ late.
Thanks Ornlu, I needed this right now :))
thanks for the new tierlist! need more
Manipur Cavalry is really good ( and underappreciated) bc Burmese can a) answer opposing CA with Hussars and b) have a really good while unorthodox army composition of Manipur Hussars + Champs or Halbs (depending ont he enemy composition) which both have +3 attack. Usually double melee compositions suck vs massed ranged units of any kind but the Hussars make these trades really effective. It doesnt look like it but it does have a transformative character on the lategame performance.
Id advocate for El Dorado to S-Tier. honestly I see this tech twice as often as Garland Wars. Which says something about these civs but in a lot of cases El Dorado is the only reason Mayans arent already dead by mid Castle Age when they fall behind for some reason.
it feels dismissive to say Recurve bow is "only" another fletching. As Magyar id trade my Barracks, my Siege Workshoop and my Monastery for 2 more Fletchings.
Hauberk still too fast and cheap
a nice thing about Temurid Siegecraft that isnt advertised is that you are more often able to use a hill bonus. which is another SE damage upgrade on top.
What you said about Manipur cavalry is very true. My only concern with Burmese late game comp is that it's insanely food heavy. And they do not have a lasting eco bonus.
I find manipur cavalry to just be a much weaker version of farimba. I think it needs a rework tbh
@@annaairahala9462 i already know that u have zero exp with both malian and burmese
@@khanhsink7965 You're partially right in that I don't have much experience with manipur cavalry as it is, although I used to play Burmese as one of my mains when it was additional attack vs buildings. Dealing with archers was never the Burmese' problem so the change was quite disappointing to me and I swapped to other civs only playing Burmese when I get random now
I still do not understand very well how El Dorado is more used than Garland Wars. Is +40hp stronger than +4dmg?
If I am not wrong, I remember that Kipchak Mercernary has been changed that castles built after this tech can still train free E. Kipchak, unlike First Crusade that spawning is limited by amount of TC
It's still limited, let's say u have 3 castles so u get 15 free kipchaks to train, training free kipchaks would be OP
Thanks for this useful review!
Love the videos Ornlu! Just one thing. Could you add some soft music on the background next time? I think it would emprove the quality of the videos. Have an awesome day.
I really dont get why some techs dont inform about all bonuses we get. Like Logistica gives extra bonus damage for Catafaracts and Kataparuto with extra firerate. It makes those techs way worse that aktually are.
If only I was in charge of the wording of the tech tree ;)
Everyone made such a big deal about Hussite Reforms when it came out, only to realize monks contribute nothing to a trash war so who cares. Honestly I think that just speaks to a very LEL/mid-ELO mindset that's obsessed with trash wars and overvalues anything that can make your gold stretch no matter how little it actually matters.
The flip side being looking down on any civ with bad trash as being overall bad, main case in point being people who think Turks are worthless in late game because they don't understand that it's actually easy for Turks to keep a gold army in the field thanks to cav archers.
Turks also get hussars for free on top of getting that +1 pierce armor, average arbs has 10 attack and average hussars only have 6 pierce armor, Turks having 1 more kinda soft counter those arbs without needing skirmishers.
Also hussite reform design was kinda terrible, it is imperial age tech which means you'd rather macro your eco and army than microing conversion by massing monks, the monks also not contributing to army pressence as they need extensive attention, they don't auto-convert enemy units until they got attacked, on top of that the most common units being fielded in the situation where gold running low is light cav/hussars, the exact counter of monks, they are not going to get anything done when 20 or so hussars running into them.
I was right back then, but was told to shut up because I didn't play often :'(
Thanks for the list
Pretty sure Flemish Revolution is 1200 Food 650 Gold at the moment, making it the most expensive unique tech.
What an amazing Tierlist Ornlu! I agree with almost everything here. Maybe Chivalry in A Tier because Franks will always go Stable and yes like everyone else I would also say El Dorado S Tier. Loving the content ☺️
Too expensive. Id rather make more palas
30:00 ahhhh yes my biggest fear. Late game Mongol Drill Siege Towers. Never can figure out how to play against them
hey guys its ornlu makes me as happy as hey guys spirit of the law here :D
It's been a year and a lot of civ have different unique tech now so will you make a new tier list?
Hey, so you know, your background light (behind the left side of your head) comes off as very intense and blinding on an HDR monitor in particular. Might I recommend a change?
Fast imp Portuguese arquebus hand cannons are my favorite strat. Love my 45f/40g snipers
I didn't know about the Atheism tech also lowering enemy relic gold income. I thought they just swapped the cost reduction for Spies/Treason with the victory countdown increase, but I guess the latter effect was always there.
Either way it's at least something you'll tend to get some benefit from instead of the other two things being very situational.
I've seen people make the point that the Huns are already so strong that they don't really need an extra boost from a better Imperial UT, but I feel like they could still cut the cost of the tech down to like half. Or maybe lean more into the actual namesake and add a small resistance against conversion or bonus damage against monks.
Its also like the only UT that actually has a potential drawback too (even if a Hun player is unlikely to go for a Wonder or Relic victory themselves).
Also, I think the game needs a UT that will double the monk conversion warning volume for the opponents and change the conversion sound into Vululu. S-tier Unique Tech 11
Hi Ornlu
Thank you for this great tierlist! Love your insane insights and explanations! Also your criterisas are very clear. However, I have some suggestions with arguments:
What are Mayans Eagle without Eldorado? This tech makes their late game very strong, it‘s a great meatshield and raids heavely. I also feel like Mayans would have nothing to break other Civs in Imp. They just cannot push slowly like other Archer Civs. For me S-Tier.
Teutons UT is very overrated. It‘s easy to avoid: Trebs and Siege Rams still do fine. Furthermore, it‘s hardly seen in pro tournaments. Very situational! Imo Max C-Tier
Top 3 Tier and especially B-Tier are a bit crowded. Might their be a little inflationary. What (B-Tier) UT could probably bit further down?
One minor suggestion for your tierlists: order within the tier would be nice since you mention it anyway but still stick with the given order.
Overall agree with your points except for the Teutons! There's a few things to tackle here but the main thing is the overall area of control you gain by just having 3 more range on castles. Being able to threaten the enemy 3 range further goes a long way to protect, and also to threaten enemy's attacks. It's at least a low B tier. Teutons don't buy it much in pro games partially because Teutons aren't really played in pro games.
Paper money is atrocious. 24 vils are roughly a relic. Considering the combined cost of the tech is at least around 450 gold, even at low wood prices, you need 15 minutes of payback time of 24 lumberjacks...
Even if for some reason you are having a crazy amount of lumberjacks it looks bad, and then again why would you have that many lumberjacks.
I wish this tech just didnt cost gold. Make it food and wood and then it makes some actual sense.
Completely agree, now this tech just useless. If to compare with burgundian vineyards - about 70 farms in late game is normal, but difficult to imagine healthy eco with like 50+ woodrushers. This tech should cost like 250 wood 150 gold or increase 3 times gold income. Previuous wood/food for gold at least immediately spawned 500 gold, also gived nice boost in teamgames.
Drill makes siege tower the fastest land unit in the game (exclude cheat unit)
Nope! Shrivamsha Rider with Husbandry is slightly faster :)
@@OrnLu_AoE really? Even though it's fully garrisoned?
I think Warwolf is definitely S-tier. It single-handedly make Britons into a good imperial civ and a strong picks for maps like Golden Swamp which is camp-heavy, to the point I think it's civ-defining. One tech that makes you auto-win every treb war is insane value. Also counters BBC and mass skirm if the opponent doesn't micro them every 2s like a pro.
Or maybe we can think about the value of the techs in reverse. Ethiopians without torsion engine is still fine, Mongols without Drill is still fine, Goths without perfusion could still spam infantry with more barracks, while Britons without Warwolf is gonna be really bad.
I wish paper money were something more like, reduce unit gold costs by 10-20%. Or transfer it into an increased wood cost... Maybe even make it so that buying and selling wood at the market doesn't increase or decrease the price as quickly/give a +5-10 to selling price.
Meaning earlier wood selling in Imperial could be a massive boost/power spike. Or even just give a good bonus to wood production or maybe even just make it so that Rattan archers get the +20% H.P. boost too alongside a regular extra bonus/boost such as reduce its wood cost.
In playing some 10x civ bonus games did I realize how weak of an upgrade paper money is. I'd put it in C tier as well, but honestly might consider putting it in D. When compared to other techs like burgundian vineyards, it really pales in comparison and does not generate as much gold as one might think
The techs description says some imperial techs are repeteable, but how can it be? As far I know there aren't repeteable techs in AOE. Or, is the a 3x mod?
El Dorado has to be S-tier, there's no other tech that almost doubles a units HP. It makes them so much more effective against cavalier in the later stages of the game.
F for the techs UTs that have left us for balance reasons...
We miss you, Obsidian Arrows
Ornlu really loves infantry and despise cavalry lol
I would argue Recurve Bow is S tier. It gives Magyars a win condition: get to late game. Without it, the civilization falls apart and free attack is the only bonus left. I would not give too much consideration to TGs, as the game is very different there.
Nitpick - Druzhina gives trample damage (flat 5 damage, ignores armour) not blast damage (% of headline damage, affected by armour)
Imagine we get another civ and alphabetically it comes before Aztecs. It will ruin my early adulthood.
That'd be crazy. Who would it be? Maybe the Ajuran? I don't think they'd be called that though following AoE2 naming style
Well, now we have the Armenians!
I would have split the civ defining techs into two tiers personally. Stuff like Furior Celtoca and Wootz Steel isnt as good as Torsion Engines and Druzhina
I wish double crossbow also effect galleons, the Khmer empire was a naval power to begin with and they don’t even have shipwright anymore
That'd be cool, but it'd make an already strong tech even stronger, I don't know how you'd balance that
I agree with almost everything but paper money, I think that belongs to D tier.
It is imperial upgrade and you have to pay 350 golds upfront so your lumberjack can start generating gold super slowly. It is different from vineyard because you can start doing it from castle age and that farm is kind of infinite resources, wood run out fast, to pay off the cost of the tech you probably need 30 lumberjacks consistently chopping for half hour, there might not be tree anymore or you just already won at that point, wasting those golds which could've been used to accelerate your win. It does have use in forest nothing and some black forest game but the point is you typically don't have that many lumberjacks late game, unlike farmers, and wood as resources isn't as important as food late game, often 15-20 lumberjacks can provide enough wood for archer civs to function late game.
Curious that all the civs in S-tier have round shields, but none of the ones in A-tier have...
I don't think Drill is S- Tier. The upgrade is very good, but it is not good enough to win you a game on its own. Pretty much like you said with Mahayana it only helps when you get into a position you are alreedy good at. It is also completely useless when you don't happen to be in the offensive, but are on your back foot. A- Tier is justified, but definitly not S for me.
Also I think El Dorado should be S- Tier. You mentioned that you don't necessarily go for eagles, but at some point you do that in pretty much every game and it helps in every situation in the offensive and defensive (unlike drill).
Basically: swap these two and i am happy
Dril deserves the S tier. Significantly faster movement on a slow unit you gonna make every game is not something you'd pass up upon. During a defensive they help you with quicker reinforcement, replacement and they even help in dodging a few cannon/ treb shots. It's especially good on rams, as they can get under the offensive castle way faster, taking slightly less damage by getting there and giving less time for the opponent to reinforce.
Fully upgraded Mayan Eagles are absolute insanity, but I think a lot of people don’t play them at all, and El Dorado becomes very hard to use. But yeah, the moment you hit that button and your opponent is not walled, it’s basically over.
Mayans El Dorado is S Tier in my opinion. Only effects eagles but it is still civ defining. One of the strongest Units in the game and i think is the go to unit for mayans in late game in most games.
Franks Chivalry A Tier for sure. It is a must tech in teamgames. You get it in imp right after cavalier and plate barding. It reduces the upgrade time of paladins from 170s to 102s. That is huge and can win games with that faster timing. Ontop of that you can reinforce your army faster.
In 1v1 it is also very usefull. As Franks you usally end up with Axeman/HC, Halb, BBC/Trebs because your opponent will go pikes in castle age. And at some point you want to mix in light cav to raid and to distract. It helps alot. I actually think you want this tech in most games with Franks.
Huns. Probably deserve F tier. It is basicly 105 premium.
+40 hp for civ main unit - it's by far S tier tech. Chivalry and Perfusion obviously good techs, but delaying them doesn't change much - simply because in early imp stage need to save resourses for expensive paladin/elite huskarl + blacksmith upgrades. So they just A or B tier.
I hate the one-time-use sort of unique techs, especially flemish revolution and I hope they get reworked in the future.
I think Flemish is definitely A tier. Yes it's stupid but it's a tech that can win games. Can't say the same about Manipur Cavalry for example.
Ornlu pronounces the polish "ch" in many ways EXCEPT the correct one.
Celt eat TC.
I wish Dravidians get Gurjaras’ Team Bonus - Elephant units trained 25% faster
Hello Ornlu I’m curious about your opinion on the unique tech strongholds if The tech was changed To Building regeneration as well as faster firing speed for defensive buildings
Would like be too slow to be useful. If it is fast enough to be useful, then it'd be OP lol
@@OrnLu_AoE yay so you like the idea?
I think the byzantines just need two small tweaks to make them viable: make the elite cataphract upgrade give the extra bonus attack vs infantry and make logística affect all cavalry, turn down a little bit to 3 the trample damage if necessary
in what world are Byzantines not viable?
@@hansoskar1911 well, according to Spirit of the Law, they have a win rate lower than 45%, so that's what I am referring to
@@hansoskar1911 They aren't specialised enough to be effective on most maps. Too slow on open maps, kinda weak on closed ones.
@@unimportantcommenter4356 the opposite is true. they are viable on ALL map types and in almost any matchup. Its true they dont specifically abuse anything so you dont pick em for any map but you cant be unhappy getting them at random.
Shitagni worse than logistics, no way. Outranging onagers and skirms is huge for HC's.
El dorado lets mayans dominate eagle fights, and allows them to go toe to toe with cavaliers which is massive, easy S tier.
Again with recurve bow, having +1 range against skirms and siege is massive for any ranged unit and too be honest much more useful than drills
Apart from the meme that is Flemish revolution, wooz steel might be the best tech in the game, too bad Dravidians have shit cav, (or good for civ balance)
Shinkichon is way too expensive given the limited effect in my opinion.
I agree. The tech has not been changed since the conquerors. Back then Korean team bonus is Mangonel +1 range so Korean could have had 8+3 siege onagers. Making SOs from 8+2 to 8+3 is definitely worth that price, but not so much now that it's just 8+1 to 8+2.
It was really fun having 8+3 ICBM SOs 11 Particularly in Black Forest
Some civs don't even have Bracer so you could take down castles effectively with them too
@@tcsiyic3584 Yeah, though probably overpowered, and people were also not as good with BBC. I don't know if it should be +2, but it should either have more effects or be cheaper, especially considering how expansive SO are.
@@joefva Yeah, maybe just cheaper is enough. Korean deathball (War Wagons + FU SO) from my experience is still the most powerful in AoE2 and could only effectively countered by Houfnice. Sadly Korean itself isn't a strong civ, so we rarely see the civ in 1v1 or team games reaching up to that point outside of Black Forest.
Would “Warwolf” have broken into s-tier if it had been named “Warnlu”?
Portuguese UT really only helps BBC, HCs are inaccurate so it doesnt help to track moving units much, very small increase for their BBTs.
One tech, for really just one unit, not that great.
Arquebus should do something different, i think.
I wonder how Bulgarians would feel if they lost halberdier but Bagains started affecting pikemen.
They'd feel bad. Pointyboys fear cavalry getting away from them more than they fear the cav fighting them, so you want to make your precious few hits count rather than prioritize taking hits.
Probs be a net nerf. You lose a critical tool in dealing with cavalry
You didn't take into account the cost
3:08 200+ 10% = 220 Villagers 🤫 ( not 222)
222 is correct, 20 extra also 10% less pop
@@valger3652 yes,your right, I re-read the description
Flemish is more expensive than Druzhina
It's my subconscious refusal to accept Flemish Revolution as a tech in AoE2
HAHA!
Terrible intuition regarding most of the techs, their cost and their usefulness in a standard RM or EW game. And I seriously don't understand how you can say knights are melee units and put Chivalry at B tier while you put Wootz steel as S tier even though Infantry are far worse. Frank eco and the cavalry with extra hp and los are quite valuable units. It'd probably be better if this tierlist is broken into 1v1 and TG separately. A lot of very important and useful techs have been rated low while very mediocre techs like Wootz steel have been hyped up.
Hauberk, El Dorado, Tower shields, Fabric shields, Chivalry should move to S tier - these are techs which apply to the civ's meta composition and a MUST in most situations. Frontier Guards, Shatagni, Manipur cavalry, Flemish revolution, Bagains, Magrabhi camels and Rocketry should move to A tier as they're useful for their respective civ in many if not all situations. Garland wars, Torsion engines and forced levy should drop to A tier and Wootz steel, Druzinha to B tier.
I think you are the one with terrible intuition here based on your assessment there. While I agree with some of those, your choices for A tier and even the two you put in B tier are really strange
@@annaairahala9462 Infantry is very niche and it's mostly useful in late imp in closed map TG. That's why even though "Trample damage" and "Ignore armor" sound like a LOT, in practice its very less useful for 1v1 or open map TG. And thereby I put them in the B tier. Can you be particular about which ones in A tier seem a bad choice? I guess I did unnecessarily put Bagains in A tier but that's about it.
Unique tech ranking.
Haupberg (First Crusade)
Yeomen (Warwolf)
Logistica (Greek fire) Should be - Fireships damage adjacent ships. (Loses the useless+1 range buff)
drive.google.com/file/d/1IC34QduLZ8kxOAw3PXFfAnbpilYrRcGl/view?usp=share_link
Lechitic Legacy
Hillforts (Tower shields but I want this for a new Messo civ) ‘’Skirmishers and spearmen move 10% faster’’ bonus should go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC.
And the (Spearman-line and Skirmishers +2P armour) should go to the Zaputechs.
In turn Lithuanians towershields tech applies to their crossbows and their sword line. .
Great Wall (Rocketry)
Magrebi Camels (Kasbah)
Zealotry (Saracens ‘’Counterweights’’ tech should be replaced by a new tech; Arabian horses +10% cavalry speed.(Cavalry not Camelry) )
Atl-Atl (garland wars)
Hul’che Javelineers
Stirrups cav attack 33% faster (Bagains) Sword line +4 melee armour
Silk armour (Timorid siegcraft)
Ironclad / Crenelations
Thalassocracy
Celtic Strongholds (Furor Celtica should be changed to: Ram +40% HP and increased Ram speed)
Chivalry - Should gain an added effect - when an enemy's health is reduced to 20% or less by a knight (Knight line or Hospitaller/Templar), there is a 35% chance of it converting to your side.
Sepahi
Recurve Bow (Corvinian Army)
Cuman Mercenaries (Steppe Husbandry)
Pavise
Nomads (Nomad tech should give you the opportunity of packing up your tc and rebuild it for free. (Moving ox cart).)
Frontier guards
Fabrick Shields (Andean Sling)
Yasama
Eupseong (Tower Range)
Tigui
Inquisition (Supremacy should go to a more primitive ,vill/trash focus civ like an African/Messo civ)
Fabric Shields (Andean Sling)
Druzina (Detinets)
Chatras
Paiks
Tusk swords
Howdah
Medical Corps
Polish
If they want to nerf Poland I would like it if Szlachta privileges gets nerfed and Lechitic Legacy or Winged Hussar get a slight cost reduction.
More tierlists less campaign play thrus. Why would I want to watch you playing campaigns I'll play it myself dawg. I'd even watch a tierlist of tierlists before that