Heroes in History: Jormungandr
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Ooooh boy I know I'm gonna get some hate for this video. Not only is there no historical counterpart to the Jormungandr hero, but I even shoot some classic Norse mythology in the foot. Did you know that some Viking clans might have seen Thor as a god of fertility and harvest? Did you know that the Poetic Edda is not an accurate retelling of pure Viking worship? Did you know that the famous hammer of Thor emblem was designed in the post Christian influence era and might have been inspired by OR made in response to Christian crosses like the Tau cross?
No?
Do you want to butcher me for even acknowledging this!?
Oh I have no doubt THAT'LL happen.
Well I hope ya'll enjoy anyway.
Please subscribe if you did enjoy, because I know I'm gonna lose subs after this.
Please leave a like on the video so I can see how many people actually enjoyed it vs how many hate me now.
And leave a comment, because Lord knows the hate will flow there. XD Just...be civil, okay?
Later!
I actually have a somewhat reasonable explanation for why the Jormungandrs are so uncleanly and barbaric. The Nordic gods abide by a way of life called Innangard, a life style that is very civilized and orderly. While there enemies, the jotunn, abide by Utangard, a wild and chaotic way of life that can be quite barbaric. Since Jormungandr (the snake) fights against the gods in ragnarok and he is basically an animal we can assume that he abides by Utangard. As such his disciples (the Jormungandr hero) would also abide by Utangard.
My guess is the character is based off the Góði/gothi a nordic priest who hallowed a circle during blōt with a ritual hammer
Jormungandr is actually from Jotunheim being kin of Loki (half jotun half god)
So what you're saying is They're Giving praise to jormangender and the hero is the prest
Can’t wait to see the historical reason that Jorm can’t have shoes
There isn't one. Jorm wanted to rip off one of the Free Folk clans from Game of Thrones.
I thought it was because Ubisoft has a foot fetish.
@@DexXael There'd be more barefoot characters by that standard.
They do have shoes in one of there torso’s
easy. they're dirty snake worshipping hippies.
That music gives me such nostalgia! It slaps harder than Holden slapping my old castle gates back in the day..... oh memories.
Jormungandr has a very big snake 😳
That he does....that he does.
@@RavenKnightYT or she 😳
@@MWurz-tm2ww uh oh this getting into odd territory
@@MWurz-tm2ww both
The Powersnake, bane of Thor, jormungandr...such metal much power
So you showed that Jormungandr has no historical base, yet still you manage to bring up so many historycal details :D
That was a great video. I personally like the hero and that music just hits different!
Damn I was ready to hear about some crazy cultist vikings running around beating the hel out of people with hammers CX, still cool to hear about all the folklore around it. Great vid as always C:
For note: Older versions of Thor in Germania (by the time known as Donnar) were said to carry an axe not a hammer.
German version is very different from Nordic version
They named themselves for the serpent Jormungandr that, according to Viking beliefs, fatally poisoned Thor. They've grown into an insular dark sect that believes itself risen from the fall of Thor before Ragnarok. Their rite of passage is a deadly ritual that honors their painful origins. They most likely started worshipping Jormungandr because as i know from Norway lore there were Gothi which were nordic priests that were making people do some sacrifices for Thor so there might have been humans sacrifices too(i can be wrong), which could lead to their pain and hatred. Next thing is that they could be following one nordic life style called Utangard which is life full of savagery and chaos. What about hammer? Well its supposed to represent hammer of Thor, i believe some priests had ritual hammers and vikings did use hammers but it was literally rare. In Iceland there were some Gothi priests too if i am right and there was once found hammer necklace.
Remember i can be wrong. Most of the stuff are things i have learnt from my sources(my norway, danish and iceland friends)
Like a seer or góði
Isn't Hulda (Female Jormungandr) the leader of them? If so, that is more likely why she is the default, same with how Vortiger is the default for the Black Priors as he leads them and Erzabet is his second. The Hitokiri is Sakura by default as it is her story that is more known along with her actually being influenced by the supernatural when she went to Kaidan, Yato simply got revenge for being betrayed. Then when it comes to the Zhanhu, Sun Da is the most prolific and skilled of them as he created the purple flame while Fu Huo is simply a witch that works for the Wu Lin Empress.
The male jormungundr looks cooler though
@@microwave4928 not a fan of his beards or his god awful voice, Hulda literally sounds more manly than him
Yes, but I was trying to tie in another piece of history. XD
@@emperorpalpatine373
I mean if you’re not a fan of beards you won’t like the male Viking’s very much
I still stand by highlander being the coolest both sounding and looking
@@emperorpalpatine373 what about the new skyrim helmet he got with that ginger beard?
Absolutely love the analysis! It even brought up some things I did not know of, but it did not mention that the hammer was usually also representative of the human heart beating, so Thor is believed today to represent life itself.
In terms of historical inspiration, there were writings describing warriors from the “cult of tchernobog” in Eastern Europe who were known for using hammers as weapons. These stories have never been confirmed, but may have served as inspiration for the hero.
Found no sources of your claims
I kind of see Jorm as a Viking version of a warrior monk. Her face paint and ritualistic armor make me think she’s some type of seer who’s decided to become a warrior.
Like a seer or göði
Ugh fine I guess you are my little world serpent
Come here
You deserve more viewers your content is so good keep it up man!
bro, i tried so hard to make this character look minimally realistic, and i got a good result, "good"
Is there anywhere specific I can go to look up those Scottish warhammers? I would love to learn about them!
I’d start with this: www.medievalchronicles.com/medieval-weapons/medieval-warhammer/
Your vids are the best on this site right now no clickbate just straight to the point content and it’s great 👍
Also, obviously, Jormungandr's hammer is fucking _huge._ It's almost more of a giant, solid block of iron on a stick than a warhammer.
Please do shaman next I’m very curious about her
Gonna be honest. Im not dissapointed that The For Honor team took a lot more creative freedom with this character and the game lore in general.
The Jormangandr being a very cool cult of outcasts, lepers, and criminals. Who found strength and family under Huldas leadership is very cool to me.
Hammers and Clubs of various sizes are my favorite weapons in fantasy and such.
Jormangandr is my top chatacter and I love them.
Very good video I love this series
Ps the Jormagandr cult werent bent on ending the world. They were a cult that was preparing for the end of the world. That's very different
I understand the point of these videos & love them, keep going, historical I agree completely with the video however in the games lore I understand why this class exist, Given the history & lore of the game.
Now do it on Gryphon to celebrate his nerf.
Jorm is coming for you for 2 reasons:
To spread the news of Ragnarok, and to bring Ragnarok to your nether regions.
Ive only started watching your stuff today. Love it, already subbed.
I hate fighting jorms she targets a certain point to much (;-;)
another Epic Vid
Very good video, I really like the folklore you delved into.
I just downloaded the Poetic Edda on audible I cant wait to listen to it
Can you do the berserker next? It's my favorite hero from bay one^^
I honestly dont like how For Honor has become more and more fictional than what it started out with. It became more edgy and sometimes cartoonish than what had been initially, a semi realistic semi-battlefield arena dueling game with greatly inspired warriors of the past.
How about Hitokiri next? Perhaps Zhanhu? I’d love to see what kind of history they have. Maybe even Warlord? I mean I hate the character personally but the history could be interesting.
Great video. Was a very interesting watch
I want a sick chainmail armor for this character, with a badass helmet
I'd like to think in canon both Norse and Knight cultures have a form of syncretism in For Honor that would have developed post Cataclysm.
Vikings would have developed a fused Norse Pagan/Christian religion, since they're pre empire would have likely been a good mix already, due to their years of isolation in Iceland, Greenland, England, and maybe America? While older Roman and Greek gods could have popped up as cults and later tolerated by the church once their renaissance began and older aesthetics were adopted.
I think I did find the historical counterpart of Jorm. They are likely a mix of seers and góðis.
Yeah guess that was expected. I’m kind of surprised that Thor was considered a “fertility god”, though that might be because my knowledge of Thor are from Marvel’s Thor so it wouldn’t exactly sound right. Anyway, I’m curious to see who’s next. I’m assuming that will be Shaolin based on previous videos?
He was know as God for a few thing. God of fertility, thunder. But If I remember correctly, he is also know for Family because his family ment a lot to him. He was a devoted husband to his wife, Sif. And a devoted father to his children: Magni, Modi, and Thurd. He also had a stepson named Ullr.
We need a warlord one now
I actually had no idea that why the Jormangundyr in game looked so dirty and weird looking skin. After watching this now I know :)
3:48 is just him getting bullied by glad
So the thought that I first had was that the outfit and the face paint/piercing is more celt or pike influence. Where they just took a bit of mythology and went nuts
Glad bashed me into a ad at 3:49
Bro.. ALL the vikings in For Honor are so dirty and have no good armor options. It pisses me off and is why I started using my knights.
I really wish Ubisoft would put an actually well equipped viking in the game or at least finally add better armor options. (I know they probably would never but I can still hope)
Big maul hammers are cool though.
Yo that intro is HYPE
Another theory if the hammers is that it was worn by late viking traders to indicate their heritage and trade similar to how a catholic might wear a rosary
Y jorm so hot in yo thumbnail😳
Just cause.
What people actually dont know is alot of christian feasts are bassed on northman tradition like christmas is from winterfest where theye celebrate the winter where theye used tress and bonfires (the christmas trees we know and the lighting) easter is based on a spring tradition because the egg is a symbol of fertility
2:45 hammer make boom sound. Lighting make boom sound..... hmmm thoooooor
Can you do a video on Warlord?
Actually Ubisoft is pretty good at doing historical researches accredited to the assassin’s creed franchise
My head cannon is that the reason they use the ridiculous hammer is that it's actually just ment for ritual use.... Which in there case may work since if I remember right the jorms in for honour are a cult or zealots
As one who subscribes to the English variant of the Germanic faith, I can say with a degree of authority that there is nearly nothing about this hero that is remotely historical. That said, Jormungandr is one of my favourite heroes in the game. Though I write not having watched this video, I predict that this will be interesting. I will update once I have reached the end.
Update:
I had many of the same thoughts, the hammer, the cult, the attitude, none of it carries any historical evidence at all. Especially relevant is the point about popular image: society at large would have viewed the cult of Jormungandr as the worst kind of heresy, a concept that would not have been distinguished from treason in those days, and would most likely have slaughtered them to a man for that reason.
A few mistakes were made about certain parts of the culture and faith but this isn't a history or anthropology channel so it's forgivable, if someone asks me to go over these and correct them, I would be happy to, but if unbidden I will keep it to myself so as not to distract from the point of the video.
Another thing I tried to do, and I think I got a little better result, Thor, using effects
Another heroes in history lets go!!!
I miss the jormungundr event
Best event in the game and the hero wasn’t bad as well
His hammer could look cooler though
I need to know the music used in the video
They are also the spawn of Loki
Give. Jorm. Shoes.
She kind of reminds me of druids
In jormunganders defence if you are a blacksmith then in every day life having a big hammer would be more usefull and sinds they brought axes to battle because there everyday tools wouldn't it make sense if a blacksmith would bring his biggest hammer to battle? They probably haven't bin found sinds most people aren't blacksmiths and if there hammers were made with wooden heads it wouldn't have survived, sow yes there is no proof of viking using hammers in war, but it's highly likely that they sometimes did bring big hammers like mallets into war. Also blacksmith weren't they cleanest people they often were zweety, pretty licht clothed, dirty, blisterd and burned because of the heat they work with. Wouldn't viking blacksmith make a lot of sense to be the thing they were based on?
Jorm is d&d character confirmed
Little tip for you. The belief in the Norse gods is still very much alive, not just a mythology. If christian symbols and characters will be regarded as religion, then so should those in Norse Paganism 👍
Mythology means “a collection of myths, especially one belonging to a particular religious or cultural tradition.” You can have Jewish, Christian, and Muslim myths just as well as you can have Norse myths, and as such mythologies within them. The difference is simply that there is more material, physical, and recorded validity to the standard accepted mainstream religions than most pagan religions.
This is why I actually kinda like Jorm, they aren't really like normal warriors, more on the mythology side and it's cool to me because when I play them I feel more like instead of a normal warrior I'm playing as a LEGENDARY hero of Norse myth, too bad for fashion for that jorm has like one option for that, then the little bit of cultist looks that look good, then all the other ones look like a hobo lmao
How about Arthurian legend and the lore of battletech?
Is there historical antipathy of lotion
Come on man we all know that it Robert Baratheon
Do the valkyrie (walkyrjur)
The origins for Thors hammer as you explained it is not correct. The origins come from Thors ancient version, Perkwunos whos from close to the Stone Age in the Corded Ware culture where stone axes were so common it's even called "The battle axe culture" by archeologists in some languages. But these stone axes did not look like typical axes, they had more club-like shapes which look sort of like a blacksmiths hammer.
So over the ages old depictions of Thor/Perkwunos/Thunraz of him carrying a stone axe looked more like he was carrying a smiths hammer to the norse peoples as their axe designs evolved to no longer resemple old depictions on stone, carved wood, and fabrics from their forefathers.
Also, the poetic edda is an instruction book on norse scaldic traditions, not some manual to religion. It was written by christians after all, so yes it is a bad guide to ancient religion, but the norse people were extremely religious still. Cults where the gods were cultivated dominated the lands and societies. The Thors hammer pendants existed before christian influence, but it had a boom in popularity in response to christians wearing crosses.
The Jormungandr is a cool class but it is ashistorical. They just wanted a hammer character so they fell into the same dirty viking stereotype the vikings show loved so much.
How very interesting. This is all fascinating. Could you share the sources you used to learn this? I’d love to enrich my knowledge further, as this is a topic of great interest to me.
@@RavenKnightYT I can't remember the sources since I first heard this information at a semiar while studying archeology, but I believe this is the most common interpretation as of late since the cultural history going back thousands of years have become more and more popular.
Less weight is given to the christian written stories written long after this was the belief system and more weight is given to the origins and cognate languages. So proto-indo-european culture and language where we see Perkwunos whos the earliest form of Thor, known for wielding an axe. This would be a stone axe. And we see how this carries over to the closest in proximity thunder gods of the indo-europeans, Perkunos of the baltic and Perun of the slavs whom both are connected with an axe aswell. It only then changes to an axe when we get alittle furtehr away from the origination point where the axe becomes a hammer with the norse and other germanics, though we do not know what Thunraz was said to wield, and some of the goths runestones might be depicting Thor with both. Then when we get very far away from the origination point we see that Thor loses the weapon completely, like with Taranis of the celts and Zeus of the greeks.
Though the greeks are a bit special since Hercules also comes from that origin, but his thunder connection is given to Zeus whom is also supposed to be the Sky Father, Odins role, both of which come from the proto-indo-european Sky Father Dyēus.
What Hercules does keep along side the other thunder gods is his strength, he's supposed to be the strongest, and he is connected to the club, there even is hercules club-pandants the same way there are Thors hammer pendants and Peruns axe pendants. So he doesn't have an axe and he doesn't have a hammer, but a club.
But I wont ramble any longer. "Dan Davis Author" is a youtuber whom make quite detailed videos about this period if you want to find out more about this sort of stuff, I believe he posts sources for everything that isn't a discussion so thats a good place to find some written sources if you prefer to read about it. He made a video discussion about this very topic of Thors hammer and I agree with his suggestion that the idea of wearing the hammer pendant predates christian influence since we see miniature version of the old stone axes in graves, no more than 4 centimeters long and with a hole through them, it seems very much like a pendant people would wear even back then before christianity existed.
Thinking about this actually makes me wish the For Honor devs had made the Jormungandr an early bronze age warrior with a stone hammer-like axe. The size of the jorm hammer isn't too far off of the historical hammer-axe of the corded ware peoples, whom are just vikings 2000 years before the viking age.
Perhaps we just stumbled apon a way for the For Honor devs to justify the Jorm hammer.
Survive the Jive is another historical youtuber who delves into the re-discovery of Europes old religions, I think some of his longer and newer documentaries are very good, for example the one about the indo-european sky father.
Robert Drews is a very good historian to check out regarding these really old things if you want to read, though he isn't as focused on the religious since hes a straight up professional historian.
I said I stop rambling but then doubled the length of the comment...
There is a reason why jormungandr is a female. It's easy, the historical jormungandr was a female snake, she was the daughter of Loki and Angrboda
No I think the symbolism of the hammer is supposed to be that jormungundr took Thor’s hammer and gave it to them to use
Like in the event
Well yes, in the For Honor lore, that is the case. But I mean historically, the hammer symbolizes something different.
Ta bien👍🏿
Thor’s hammer was made to look like a cross so that Norse pagans could still practice their beliefs in secret without risk if christians being like “oH pAgAnS wE gO kIlL tHeM” my ass would’ve been chased for being an open pagan back then lol.
That is one theory. The other theories are:
A.) The norse were trying to adopt a symbol that melded Christian symbols into their own so that it still felt familiar
B.) It was made as a counter to the Christian symbol to remind the Norse of their origins.
C.) It was designed by Christians to assure the Norse that they weren't there to try and take their culture but merely to build on it.
@@RavenKnightYT I feel like most of of the norse however at that time never really converted it was either a front for survival or political things. From what I read up and have heard from other Scandinavians as well is that for the most part at that time most of them didn’t really convert.
@@thewidowskiss7675 at that time no. The majority did not convert until the 11th century. However, they had contact with Christians at the time, and that would be when the Norse and Christian cultures would begin to collide at least.
Maybe Aztec
....loki and satan are very different. As are balder and Jesus. Entirely different mythos
Its kinda sad thar majority of the viking are a work of fiction the only real sort of characters is highlander, valk, warlord and maybe shaman
Well... Thor wields a hammer so he probably nails a lot of people in his spare time so I can see the God of Fertility thing. But also, while obviously not being cavemen dirty hobos like Ubisoft presents them, aren't Vikings still not quite keen on hygiene like how Ahmad ibn Fadlan described?
The Rus Vikings, which where the vikings Ahmad encountered were the proto-russians, and verangians, not quite the vikings we know today. Although, even these vikings he referred to their hygenie as "optimal."
@@RavenKnightYT Ohhh, my bad. Thanks for the insight! Really dig your content! Keep up the great work, good sir!
@@oscarm4095 no worries! And thank you.
Well no one can say that you don’t know of what you speak
In terms of why the default Jormungandr is a female, I'm a bit more concerned about why she is known as "Hulda". Is that name meant to be a reference to some character in Norse mythology? Because I swear it sounds so familiar....
mine is male cuz kratos
BOI!!
Once they added centurion and gladiator the hero's have kind of gone down.
I would love to see Kensei next. Just fun to hear about the lore the Kensei has behind them. If not Kensei then shaolin. Battle/warrior monk history are very interesting to hear about and it'll be fun breaking down For Honor version.
Kensei and Shaolin are definitely half fiction and historic like the most in for honor.
I love these videos even if I already know some of the information or not.
Not that edgy
ultra cringe character