Marshall EL34 Tube guitar amp bias adjustment mod D-lab Electronics
Vložit
- čas přidán 31. 12. 2014
- Here's a modification for setting bias on your Marshall amp. For some reason Marshall decided to make this effort difficult. D-lab makes it easy!
- Věda a technologie
I really enjoyed your biasing lab.
I do have to say if people are searching for help regarding biasing tubes, they should
already know about the operation of a high voltage supply, safety concerns, etc...
Awesome lab from beginning to end. Thanks for your expertise!
Thanks this worked a treat! I also found if you turn the power straight off (after warming the tubes up) without going into standby the plate voltage dissipates rapidly through the tubes. I also put a few layers of duct tape over the capacitor connectors to reduce the risk of getting zapped.
Thanks a LOT Terry. I just ordered new tubes (First time since I bought this amp) and would have never thought of adjusting the bias. I was just cruising YT to make sure I didn't miss this exact sort of thing. Yes, a scope demo would be way cool too! Thanks again!
Thanks Terry, enjoyed the video........Been enjoying your videos for many years and the guys who play the guitar through your amps......Have a great day and thanks for your service in our Air Force.............Bill
Just did the mod on a 1978 2203 Marshall, worked perfectly. Thanks again.
Very nice demo of the bias stuff ... thanks
Thanks I did the D.Lab advise for bias test point on my jcm 800 great upgrade! Jacques
Another interesting vid. I always put 1Ω resistors in and luckily I have never known any blow, although, as you say, they do act like a safety fuse. Thanks
Great vid! I´ve read a lot about adding a 1 ohm resistor, but this vid made it look real easy. Thanx
Thank you, sir! This is a good method to bias a DIY tube amp indeed.
KILLER INFO Terry. Us dummy guitar players need that on our old Marshalls etc. It only makes sense. Thats why I switched to playing Fargen amps. He puts a test point on the outside of the amp making it easy for fine tuning bias etc.!!
Thanks bro! You’re great!
I really do appreciate what u do!
Really helpful channel... thanks to u I’ve got my old jtm45 roaring again and my 2 dsl40c are melting faces all around....
Always been doing pedals with my little business but thanks to u I’ve got plenty guitar amps done to many friends🙏🙏🙏
Thank you very much 🙏🤘👍
Hi seianniesei, I also have a JTM45 and 2 DSL40C Marshall's! Small world.
Do you think the JTM45 with 2 5881 tubes are different to bias than the 50 watter shown here?
Great video - very helpful - not sure what all the critical comments are about - Thank you for doing this!
Thank you very much for this very useful contribution!
Got a question. I have a JCM900 4100 100W head that I've had for years and it has gone through tubes left and right. I finally tore it down to see what was the cause and found R8 R24, R25 & R36 burnt and open. I also found the bias range resistor that the schematic shows as 15K had been replaced with a 6.8K. I've replaced all those resistors and also C15 the bias cap (47nF/250V ClassX ) with 47nF/600V Sprague orange drop. I bought a matched quartet of EL34's and replaced all the 12AX7's with new tubes as well. While trying to set the bias using a socket style probe, the current is running between 1 and 2 amp's. I have read that the bias range resistor may need to be a lower value to achieve a higher negative reading, hence, the 6.8K I removed and replaced with the 15K. What are your thoughts?
Didn’t you do a video biasing KT88 tubes ? Do you recall what the bias voltage/current is supposed to be? Thank you for any help I’m asking for a friend.
Probes come in handy too for setting the bias.
What parts do you like to always keep in stock?
I.e. resistors, caps?
Great info bud thanks for the heads up mate
Hi, I have a question: do you cut off these resistances after bias adjustment or you keep them inside?
It looks like the C19 cap has been replaced by a much bigger cap. I know some people dont like the treble boost that this cap makes to the lead channels and often disconnect it, but why would someone put in a different cap. Is it a different value?
I also have a 1977 2203 Marshall mk2 master model that had new tubes throughout and caps also by the same tech who did the 73 super lead, in the mk2 the power tubes are quad set of 6550 JJs out of curiosity i popped the back off to look at the work and right off noticed that two of the power tubes had signs of running hot, hot enough to dark-n the lettering and the other two looks like they have have never been used, lettering was still bright red ,is there a bias problem?
This is a variation of Gerald Weber's idea of the box with an octal socket, a 1 ohm resistor in series with pin 8, 2 banana jacks,
an 8 conductor cable, and an octal male plug. I built one about 10 years ago, and it sees a lot of use.
Hi (again) Terry! Just double checking... my Marshall is a JCM 2000 DSL 100. To what voltage would you set the bias?
Howdy.
Another good thing with the cathode resistors is they help managing parasitics.
If mounting the resistors is felt cumbesome one might buy a couple of biasing adaptors. They will allow to connect a mA meter in the cathode circuit.
Regards.
5:00 also remove all power before removing leads there is still plenty of live circuitry there when in stanby. Just a thought great vid thx
so what do you do when you have one bias control, 4 tubes and the bias is off by a few mv/tube. say 32 - 38mv, like in my 2203 100w Marshall? Do I need new tubes or it dosen't really matter. Thanks.
Quick question I have a 50watt valve amp with 2 el34s both power valve base plates pins 1and 8 are linked in series to ground via the 6.3 V CT Brown winding from the Power Transformer can I put a meter on it without having to fit the 1ohm Resistors?
Is that Joe Jackson playing in the background?
i am trying to check the bias on a vintage push pull amp that has no bias pot no test points and no standby switch. The tubes are red plating bad and I want to see if they are biased properly or if i have another problem but nobody seems to show this on vintage equipment
im not understanding what exactly i am trying to look for. I see conflicting information.
Excellent video just two thoughts, one you didn't mention where to connect the black leads from your two DMM's and also can you leave the one Ω resistors in place after you're done with the bias adjustment?
The black leads are connected to the chassis (0V) and so are the other ends of the resistors. One meter is measuring the voltage at the plate of the tube. The other is measuring the voltage across the 1 ohm resistor. The voltage across a 1 ohm resistor has the same numerical value as the current flowing through it, e.g. a reading of 37mV means that 37mA is flowing. (Ohm's Law: I = V / R, I = 0.037mV / 1 = 0.037mA.) Many amps have these resistors installed at the factory, so you can leave them in the amp. You won't notice any difference in the sound of the amp and they are already installed when you next want to adjust the bias.
Thanks Silas, I assumed that but wanted to be sure as the black leads weren't really visible in the video.
I have a Marshall ma50h. Just added new el34 and one tube is reading about 35mv and the other tube is reading funny like 20+ volts. Ot mv. Any suggestions ?
So,What’s the standby switch used for,and which one of main sw n stby sw should be turn on 1st n turn off 1st, I know nothing about my guitar amp that bcz it works/no work (sound) eventually (Marshall JMD-1 model 501 2*12” celestion speakers).pls give me some detail,thanks
Resistors you installed were 1 ohm 1%. no mention of wattage rating. They looked like 1/2 watt. Correct?
Would this be the way to do a Marshall DSL 401?
I have a fender blue deluxe reissue with volume on 10.You hear low volume. What can it be?
How do you bias a Marshall DSL40c? Ive never biased a amp before. Is it something that I can do myself?
I am Curious on a marshall major with KT88s can this be done ?
Love the Ranger...!!!
Will a bias probe work the same way?
Question, what is the point of having resistors on all tubes IF the bias control is for all 4. I know the value of my tubes as Ive had them checked with a tube tester and they are all the same strength. Wouldn't it make sense to only have one resistor as the bias knob is for all 4? I guess this would only apply if the tubes were all the same strength. Thanks
Couldn't you use a tube tester socket that is used in tv repair??? that would go between the tube and the base, and it has pins that come out the side to test...just a thought....nice video..
Hi Terry, I have a question for you. I have a Marshall Bluesbreaker JTM45 amp that takes two KT66 valves. Unfortunately I wound up with very badly mismatched valves. They have a bias difference of 10 millivolts. My question is, can these valves still be used or will I have to toss this pair of valves in the dumpster? Thanks from Michael Newell from Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
There is comment by ps10iceman to this video from 5 months age where he wrote that it is possible to add bias adjustment to each tube separetly so you don't have to worry if tubes are mismatched. I don't know how ask him or search in the internet, i only know that in my dsl15c there was adjustments for each tube but when i was changing bias for one there was little change on the other, so it looked like that set bias for one tube then set for other then chech first and correct little bit then chech this second and on and on to the point when both (it has only two output tubes) had same bias value.
Forgive me if it's been answered, but do you have a list of "go to" vendors for electronic parts or even better a common parts list for Gtr Amp Repair...?
I’m not sure I understand the resistor you installed. So you clipped the jumper between pins 1 and 8. And then connected the resistor to ground and…. Pin 8?
Thank you for your effort and you video, BUT I have been reading and Learning to bias and this whole add resistors thing has got to be some BS. Why should you have to install anything to do routine things? again thank you, but there has got to be an easier way.
Hello Terry. I have a jmp 2104 50W combo from 1980 which has exactly the same problem, no testpoint. It has also EL34 tubes. The plate voltage is lower because of the power transformer. It's about 390V . Is there a formula that I can use to calculate a prober value for the bias setting? Thanks for the very educational video
The maximum plate dissipation of an EL34 is 25W. Calculate the plate current required for max. dissipation by dividing 25W by the plate voltage on pin 3, and then set the plate current to 70% of the result. In your case, 25 / 390 = 0.064 i.e. 64mA and 70% of 64mA is 45mA, which is the plate current for 70% of max. dissipation.
Can you do the blackstar series one as well?
Thanks for the info, one question, what version is that of joe jackson's another world? Thx g
+Three_g Yep, it was off of one of his live albums. Great to know others like Joe Jackson!
nice - thank for the info!
Excellent!!!
Would this be a useful modification for a sound city concord amp, which also has el34s?
Yes.
Are you still working on the Johnson Viking valiant
Thanks for the tips!
Brilliant, thank you!
Is it not easiest to measure the DC resistance of each side of the primary, then measure the voltage across the same, then work out the plate current from that? No need for 1ohm resistors and and no need to measure the screen current and subtract that...
I enjoyed the video
Hi! Do you know if the Marshall DSL40CR is reliable? Thank you.
Great Info Right up to the very end ... now subscribed, thx
Best Simple inExpensive Dummy Load ever ... ! ... would 10wt work for a 16ohm load~? ... I always use or select > 16ohm & speaker's to get full use of the transformer. 8>)
To follow up with Robert, I think the whole group is biased (say Watt?) I'm sorry but I get amped over these current potential issues, we must resist getting her tubes tied! Lame jokes aside, thank you D-lab for this really nice instructional video! Very nice approach to adjusting the amp bias after I change our my tubes.
A quick and easy way to measure bias current is to place a milliameter between the plate and B+ !
Hi Terry, Do you happen to know which type of relay Marshall use in their amps? thanks!
+jozzef1990 Hello, sorry do not know
Wouldn't it be safer to use a bias probe?
Good video !
Great video, but of course I am biased...LOL
I enjoyed the video. Would love to see some demos with the scope too.
Thanks for the pointer. I will come up with a good scope demo and get it posted.
Appreciate your faith in me.
Terry Dayton Terry first just want to say I appreciate all the videos. I follow a bunch of folks on here. Takes a lot of courage to put videos on here. I'd also like to to see one with a signal being applied to the input and a scope on the out put so we could see when clipping starts. It would also be interesting to see the crossover distortion mark being displayed while adjusting bias in order to get rid of it.
Hey question here.i got a tube amp a while ago,first tube amp ive had.it seems the tubes are dead because they wont turn on ,could i put any tube that i buy and put them in.Its a Marshall dsl40 with celestion classic lead speaker and it came with the stock marshall tubes .i have mesa boogie 6l6 str 440 tubes pair i would like to put in
Or do i need to bias it.not sure how all that works
sooooo, install a one ohm resister betwixt pin 1 to ground, connect probe to pin one across same resister, then read milliamps. set to about 35ma for el34. am I correct? next... neutralizing a pair of 6146... thanks Terry, Don
No, you need to set your meter to it's voltage range. You're reading voltage, but the number of mA flowing in a 1ohm resistor is the same numerical value as the number of mV across it.
Are the resisters 2 watts?
A weird comment about knobs...That Marshall has the same knobs as the Rogers Ravensbourne and Ravensbrook amplifiers which dates the Marshall to somewhere around 1973 or 4 at a guess...I'm a Hi-Fi man, not a guitar man..unfortunately for me...
Hi D-lab!
:-)
Thanks for the help!
I have a question about the 1ohm resistor!
If it's going to serve as a fuse, I would like to be sure I will put the correct wattage resistor!
Would You please give me link to were I can buy the exact resistor, or even if You sell them, I would buy few from You!
Also I found something online about grounding pin 1 separately!
Would it matter based on Your opinion and experience?
Thanks for the help, and Kind Regards!
Steve:-)
Smaller the better to acts as a fuse. 1/4W 1% metal film will do as the voltage dropped across 1 ohm is in the mVs. ;^)
PaulinTaegu
Thanks Paulin!
:-)
I have a JCM800 50 watt with plate voltage at 460 the lowest the bias will go is 70ma. The amp was left on for a weekend and power tubes burnt up.
Sounds like leaky negative bias caps. Change them out and recheck bias
THE TRAINWRECK PAGES
Read it every time you adjust bias.
Every. Time.
Ken Fischer was the Leonardo Davinci, Albert Einstein, and Nicola Tesla of guitar amplifiers...
Only thing I'd add would be to let the amp warm up for at least 10 min or so because the EL34's have a habit of drifting until they're fulling hot and you risk biasing too hot or cold. For EL4 rated at 25 watts and say a plate voltage of 460v, 25/460 = .054. Now times that by 60% is .054 x .6 = 32.4 ma. The screens draw around 4 ma so 32.4 + 4 = 36.4ma for 60% biasing. Now that is with a 1000 ohm screen, I see these in this amp are 2.2k so not sure what the current drop is across them in idle. Anyone measure it?
Great video.. But I am not sure if you mentioned it Terry.. The 1 ohm resistor is total cathode current. YOu have to subtract screen current to get plate current draw. And some EL34 will actually draw a lot of screen current (~ 15%, Mullard datasheet).. Hence the large 2.2K 5W screen resistors seen on thin particular amp.. Most EL34 amps has 1K resistors which is good for screens run at ~ 400V but if you run the screen close to 500V a higher value screen resistor really adds a lot of protection. And the added screen compression might make the amp sound a little softer when played loud.
EL34 draw much more screen current than 6l6GC beam tubes. For 6l6GC you can neglect screen current but with EL34 it can be optimal to see how much screen current is drawn to get the precise plate draw.
Thank you for the info Sir. I enjoy working on the tube amps. Usually, I am a Fender guy. This Marshall came in with melted heater wiring. Output tubes were flat dead. I was a bit taken back with no way to verify bias. I wonder how they initially set it? Maybe used a tube extension with current shunt? The end user suffers with no clear way to perform the task. Glad you liked the video
+Terry Dayton Take the amp into a dark room, turn down the bias until the tube plates glow red, then turn it up a bit! Seriously though, they set the bias voltage to their specified level, and just hope the tubes are close enough.
Thank you for this tip/mod !
+hadley101 Roger that, more to come
+D-lab Electronics Going to do this mod for my JCM 900 2100 SL-X, 1W or 2W 1 Ohm 1% Resistors? Hard to tell by this video, Thanks again!
Took a look at the schematic and it has a bit of a different ground scheme than usual, think it is out of my realm of understanding so I'll pass.
hadley101 I use 1ohm 3w 1%
k
The resistors will normally be dissipating 33mA x 33mV which is just over 1mW. A 1W resistor will be fine, and offer greater protection to your amp than a larger resistor case of a cathode to heater short (as described by Terry).
Hmmm the white dvm measures mA? But the red lead goes to Volt 😜
Can i ask where the two meters were grounding to? Is it just the chassis?
Yes.
Mr D-LAB or may I call you Terry ? I know this sounds ridicules to say but, have you ever done any repairs on super vintage 1973 Marshall 1959 ptp super leads? the reason i say this is when i turn down the volume pot to completely off, it still has sound like it's on three , most components - power tubes/ pre amp tubes/ filter caps and some resistors have been replaced by a supposed certified tech from a well known music store there is some other pixies lurking inside such as hum! I thought that you might be able to throw a few pointers in there, or you might take on this item to use in one of your vids,with a quote?
Ok so you can check the current in millivolt 33 millivolt = 33 ma current draw 💡👀!!!.? Right ??
Yes, that is correct across a 1 ohm resistor (Shunt)
2 questions. What's percentage of plate dissipation results in 30mA current? Also 3mA offset between plate currents is 10%. In your mind, how much percentage offset is 'too much' before you look for different tube pairs? Thanks for the video.
I'd rather discuss "what is the air velocity of an unladen swallow"?
Glad you like the vids. More to come
OK, I'm working on a JCM800 today and was looking around for bias point recommendations. Some say 70% plate dissipation, others say 60%, while others say just adjust then play to ear then check to insure you're not over power dissipation. A lot of contradictory statements out there. I'll keep looking.
Hello, SOrry, I did not know if the first Q was serious. Can you measure the current thru the tube? Is there a cathode shunt resistor installed? 1 or 10 ohms by chance?
I'm currently working on a solution to verify your selection point of 30mA. I'll get back soon. I have made a video, but it has a mistake, correcting the mistake now.
+Craig Hollabaugh and I'm guessing you are the twit who gave Terry's video the thumbs down. It has been 2 months genius, still waiting on your video findings
Question, why can't you just read the plate voltage off pin 3 and then divide into max dissipation, then multiple by 60-70%. But rather, people/books use shunt or current draw like you. I don't understand why. Could you shed some light?
to know the power dissipation, you need to know both the plate voltage and the plate current P = V x I
getting the plate voltage is easy, simply measure it from pin 3.
getting the plate current is trickier. you can use the transformer-shunt method (dangerous) or you can measure it using a precision 1Ohm resistor (using Ohm's law) between the cathode and ground.
just a note though, when you measure the cathode current, you're actually measuring both the plate current and the screen current. but typically the screen current is much smaller than the plate current and can be ignored.
Is it not millivolts your measuring,the meter is on the 200mv scale..
it is but because it's a 1ohm resistor, and because of ohms law, you're getting milliamps as well.
Good evening. I'm planning to do this mod (1 Ohm Precision res x4) on my Laney GH100L. Would it work the same?
Yes.
Thank you Silas, I'm going to give it a try next days. Can you make a full guide to add a bias trimpot for each of the 4 tubes on my Laney GH100? If yes please send me PM so we can talk about the work and payment as well e.g. I can pay you through your PayPal account once the guide is ready to be sent to me.
Could I just do this by ear with someone playing a guitar and my eyes watching the tubes at the same time while I turn the pot?
You could, in a darkened room, but your buddy would have play really loud for a long time. It would be so easy to get it wrong and trash your tubes.
If you watch closely, you would crank the bias until the tubes started glowing red, and then back down until the red plate goes away. It's a crude, old timey method, like Grandpa adjusting the timing on his engine with a glass of water on the air cleaner. It'll work if it's all you have, but there are better ways. Most people today would not recommend it.
If you are going to modify it with those resistors. Why not go all the way and drill 2 holes to install Test Points on the top next to the tubes? That is what I always do. Then the user can just use a DVM to check the tubes bias whenever he wants? He can match his own tubes then and know when 1 or both tubes should be replaced. If they are a Freak about keeping their amp original you need to get one of those sockets with 2 leads on it that you plug the tube in to and the leads into the meter. LOL 8^)
I did that too for several points to measure.
E-Z-Hook probes/clips would be a lot safer to use than alligator clips. And, I'm surprised you don't have any "socket extenders" with exposed contacts so that you can measure any and all voltages at the socket(s) while the tubes are operating but without having to poke around inside the unit. I have several homemade ones, with the 1 ohm resistors built in as well. PS, the 1 ohm resistor method isn't 100% accurate because it adds in the screen current as well. I prefer inserting a series milliameter in the plate circuit (using a "socket interrupter") ; or the " transformer shunt" method....
good 'un shunt method is best. It’s dangerous, but just as dangerous as poking around the live chassis.
However, I always use the method where I measure the resistance of each side of the output transformer primary side. Write it down. Then turn the amp on, let it warm up. Measure the voltage drop across both sides of the output transformer primary side. Divide the two to get your mA calculation.
Measure your plate voltage then use that to multiply by the current to get your plate dissipation wattage. That’s the real figure we’re looking for. Especially since most modern amps push more voltage to the plates than any data sheet suggests.
Well if you measure the voltage drop across the screen resistor and subtract it from the total reading you'll be within a1 or 2ma difference with shunt without the worries.
I wish Marshall would have easily accessible testing points and bias pots on all of their amps. And make them to where you don't have to take the amp out of the chassis.
John Simms I agree. It is fairly simple to install some banana jacks for the bias TP. Also, the little PC type pots they use for bias has to go. I install a standard Alpha pot, chassis mount
+D-lab Electronics i was even thinking to put a panel Millivoltmeter
on it and a 3 way switch v3 v4 off
a pot outside
and set the bias
without tools
the pot is 50k linear ? or am i wrong
Ooh! Look, there's a knob on the back of this amp! I wonder what it does? I'll just turn it and see what happens ...
More Marshall amp repair videos please. ;-)
Hi Jim,
I have another that will post this week.
Thanks for the tip
It's not the 1 ohm resister that protects the amp, it's the screen resistors
Might this affect the sound of the amp?
The 1 Ohm resistors? No.
Hey Terry what is your day job???
Hey man, I work aerospace R&D, update test consoles, Perform SMD circuitboard work
Hi
I have JMP-50 2204 amp with EL34’s!
Well.... it sounds horrible!
I have replaced everything I could think of and I could!
Tubes, filter caps, trim pot,bias caps, pots, jacks tube sockets, a lot of other caps!
.....still sound awful:-(
On low volumes it is not that bad, but the more I push it, the worse it sounds!
Well....with Marshall tube amps is supposed to be the other way around isn’t it :-)
I was checking the bias from time to time and the last time I did I left the probe and meter on V5 , and found something that definitely didn’t look right to me!?
Before that :My amp plate voltage is 400V!
Most JMP’s are on 600V, but few run at lower : at 400V!
My JMP is one of them!
So I have set it around 37mA idle!
There was around 0.4~0.5 difference between V4 and V5 at idle!
I have one of these socket probes that goes between tube and amp socket with probes to be plugged in meter! I am biasing the amp, on mV setting on the digital multimeter!
After about 15 min waiting for the bias settling in ,I left the probe and the meter on, and start playing!
The readings on the meter went up, which it should!
When I was swapping the probe back and forth between V4 and V5
, I found V5 was jumping a lot higher then V4!
And as I said above,the more I was pushing the amp, the bigger that difference became!
For example:
The highest readings on louder lower notes on V4 was reaching 45mV, while V5 was going way higher to 130mV!
If I stop playing, both will go back to 37.0 37.4!
The lauded the amp pushed, the bigger the reading differences between V4 and V5 !
If I swap the tubes, the higher readings are still on V5!
I have well matched pair of svetlanas, and I would guess, there is crossover distortion caused by the big difference in the current draw between V4 and V5!
What possibly can cause such a dissbalance Between the two tubes when amp is pushed!??
All transformers are room temperature!
No hum or any other signs of something being wrong?!
I have Marshall JMP, and now i’am recording with amp simulators .......yuck !
Please Help!
Any suggestions would be highly appreciated!
Thanks for Your Help, and Kind Regards!
Steve!
:-)
Sent from my iPhone
Hey man, Sounds like a project. Have you verified that the screen resistors are OK. Usually when an output fries, it takes out one screen resistor, see this often. TD
One meter was on the cathode DCV setting but you stated the reading as amperage? Did I miss something? Only one bias adjustment for both output tubes? Also, please cut out the background music, it's very distracting.
The resistors are 1 Ohm, which means that the voltage reading in mV corresponds directly to the current in mA. Ohm's Law: I = V / R, so (e.g.) 50mV / 1 = 50mA.
I wounder where or from whom you learned that from. haha
What are you listening to?
For anyone wondering, it's Joe Jackson - Another World
Ya, and get that polarity correct on those 1 ohm resistors! hehe
I have gotten zapped a few times. It is not a pleasant experience. Once it burned a pin hole in my finger that took a while to heal and confused me for a bit. I do not recommend!
Just get a bias tool from eurotubes or use a tong meter
At some point you will get across B+ with a graphite pencil. Use a non-conductive pointer ... I prefer the wooden chopsticks from the chinese takeout restaurant.