Blocked Main Heat Exchanger / Noisy Boiler / Failed Powerflush
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- Noisy banging boiler. My name's Alan Hart, and today I've got a job where the customer's complaint is the boiler is noisy and it's banging and clanging. They have had a company go out and do a flush on the system and try and try and clean the system. So what we're going to do, we're going to go out, going to have a look what's wrong with it, and possibly we're going to do a flush on this system. We'll have a look and see what's been done before, but yeah, let's go and have a look.
This is an alpha combi boiler and, it doesn't look like the system's been flushed really, but the customer has said that they've had somebody out to it who's done a flush on it. We've just removed the filter and just had a look at the magnet inside. And as you can see on this magnet, it's got a lot of magnetite on that magnet and the boiler is very, very noisy and it's screaming. So what we're going to do is we're going to flush the system out.
Because the blockage is in the heat exchanger, we're syphoning the chemicals, the cleaner, the F3 directly into the heat exchanger, and then we're going to turn the flow off at the boiler and we're going to ruin the hot tap. And what that will do, it will put the chemicals through the plate heat exchanger, and also through the main heat exchanger. So just to explain what we're doing with this, this has got a cementer heat exchanger, which is a multi pass heat exchanger.
I'll just do a little drawing and I'll show you how that works shortly. And it's the same heat exchanger, or very similar that's in the ideal Vogue, the Baxi platinum, the Baxi 800, all the premium boilers, really. So it's a really good quality heat exchanger, but because it's multi pass and the system's full of sludge, then what that means is, if you get sludge in the heat exchanger, it's not one continuous coil. So like a Viessmann is one continuous coil. So if you flushed it, you would be going through the muck, but it's not like that on a multi pass, so I'll just explain to you what a multi pass bills.
So if you imagine, I'll just draw it on here. So we've got flow in, and then you've got coils in the heat exchanger, we'll just draw this on there. Me drawing is a bit shocking, I don't know if you can see that, but if you imagine your flow there that goes into the heat exchanger then, and then it [inaudible 00:03:06] inside, and it goes around the coils in different sections. I'll show you a heat exchanger, so you can see, and then it comes out on the other side here, as the return, whichever way around.
So that's how it joins. So I'll show you a picture of a heat exchanger that's cut up, so you can see, but what it does is, if part of it blocks, then the rest of it can still be heating. But when it is on high, it can start to boil in the heat exchanger because part of it's not getting enough flow around it. So what we're trying to do with this, a lot of people say that if a cementer heat exchanger blocks up, you, you cannot clean them. I've done quite a few of them to be honest, and I've always managed to clean them. So touch wood, if we've got any, haven't gotten any in here, but touch wood, touch wood, we'll [inaudible 00:04:10] clear this one, but to be honest it is quite bad.
So just to recap what we're doing here, we're syphoning the chemicals into the heat exchanger at the top of the heat exchanger, on the top holes on the left hand side. And what that's doing is, it's putting chemicals directly into that heat exchanger. We then close in the isolation [inaudible 00:04:39] underneath the boiler. And then what that does is, when we run the hot water, it allows the cleaner just to circulate around the boiler.
So the chemicals are in the system now and their flushing round, and we're going to leave that now. We'll leave that for about an hour or so, until it starts to clear it. And then once we start to get flow through and we know it's working, if we get it working, then what we'll do, then we'll connect the power flush machine onto it. And then we'll fully power flush the system then as well. So the way I would do it, I would put a couple of bottles chemicals in, let it flush the heat exchanger first, then open your valves underneath, put the heating on, let it go around the system and let it run around the system for an hour or so. And that's before we put the power flush machine on.
Open up radiators in all the house and let the chemicals circulate through all the system. We've then got [inaudible 00:05:47] so some of the muck will go in the filter, if there's any mock in... You could also connect your MagnaCleanse onto that if you wanted to, but that's what we're going to do with this. Let's go see if we can get this sorted.
why am i sat watching allen heart videos 2hrs a night ? why coz im learning on every video . so u keep them videos up allen good man
2.5hrs from now on please and don’t forget to like and share ... Thanks.
Hi Allen, we hae 8 years old Bosch Worchester Greenstar 18i system condensing boiler. When winter started and we turned on the heat, the radiators were luke warm on top and cold on the bottom, so we had an engineer out who advised to do a power flush on the system as it's been badly sludged. So we did, after the power flush they re-started the system but managed to get the 1st floor radiators heated only, the ground floor still remains cold. We've been told our heat exchanger is blocked, they can't fix it and we need a new boiler fitted. We've been shocked to say, and called for another engineer looking for a second opinion, who said the problem is not with heat exchanger otherwise we had no heat at all! He thinks the problem is with thermostats we have on the ground and 1st floor, most likely when we turn on the thermostat it sends the signal to zone valve which is either faulty or not connected properly. So we are trying to find this zone valve now, which is a bit of a struggle as its been fitted by previous owner and we don't know were it is. But above all, we are so confused, as both engineers opinions are polar different and we do not know whom to trust. My question is since we have no banging sound, strange noise etc and have heating on the 1st floor and hot water can heat exchanger be blocked anyway? And if so, can this be cleaned on this mode of boiler? Thank you
Another excellent video, thank you. I have a the heating equivalent of Triggers Broom, it's a lovely Baxi Combi 133HE Plus.
We replaced the pump 6 months ago, the heating works well, but unfortunately there is now an occasional and intermittent noise coming from within the housing.
We can stop the noise instantly by turning on the hot water tap and quickly turning it off. The system has not been flushed for 15 years, there is no magna filter. It's a quandary and I will be calling in a heating engineer (doubt you are in east sussex?)
Your opinion is valued and appreciated. Paul
I do love your enthusiasm for this trade
Thank You.
Merry Christmas
Big thank you for sharing your knowledge Allen! Much appreciated !!
A couple of people have asked how you got the cleaner into the boiler and you said it was shown in the film, sorry but it was not clear exactly how you did it. my thought is that you isolated the flow and return then got your bottle ready with the tube attached then opened the boiler drain which sucked the liquid cleaner into the boiler then you closed the boiler drain. Or, over to you, please enlighten us. i like you use a boiler replacement as a last resort, save where possible, nice one, keep em coming.
I will try and do another video to show. Thanks.
Hi Allan..
I know this is an older video, but I was wondering...
Is it advisable to use the siphoning method of introducing cleaner into any heat exchanger???
And if so is this achieved by opening the drain off and then using any siphoning point at the top of the main hex???
Also turning off the flow and running the dhw , this then cleans the plate?...
Thanks again Alan your an absolute star
Could it be fair to say that while both HE can be blocked by limescale, but secondary HE will be worse affected by magnate than the primary and also the magnetite flakes also end up in the impeller restricting flow and can lead to pump failure due to it overheating if not noticed for a long time.
Hi Allen Heart, your videos are super! It’s a shame a lot of gas engineers advise changing boilers rather than fix them. A vaillant boiler, if well maintained should last minimum 20 years. A lot of engineers advise customers to change boilers at a whopping cost of £1500 (roughly) rather than a simple fix after boiler only a few years old!
And, £300 to power flush the system is a bit of a rip-off. No wonder people opting to install new boilers instead!
Thanks 👍
Thanks very much for your comment, please consider subscribing to support the channel 🙂
@@AllenHart999
Will do, thanks. You’re doing an amazing job. I’m really interested in knowing how boilers operate, they intrigue me. Might take it serious and go on a training course. You take care now.
Hi, thanks for the video. Very informative.
We have a new heating system (approximately 1 year old), which consists of new baxi platinum, new radiators and pipes. However, until recently we weren’t living in the house. We lived in the house now over a month and we have started hearing banging noises from the boiler. The noises are random. Usually a while after the boiler has been turned on. Any advice what this could be?
Hi great video the only thing I couldn’t see was how u managed to get the cleaner in the heat exchanger
Great job 👍
I dont doubt chemicals work but why is my powerflush machine so dirty when there's been so much cleaner ran through it as an experiment I put a badly sludged up pump body in neat x800 for 2 nights and the result was far from what I expected 🤔 what an interesting life I have stay safe
Customer is happy and now has hot water and doesn’t need a new boiler. LOL.. Thanks.
Good man!👍
Allen what would be a typical cost for a job like this please be as the cost and quality of power flushing seems to vary , could I kindly suggest a video where you could give tips on how to tell if a flush is being done right , I had 2 systems flushed and 1 is fine but the other has had issues , same guy , same machine , go figure. Keep up the quality content.
Greatly informative video Allen. A couple of engineers not keen to treat our Main Combi 30HE for suspected clogged secondary heat exchanger , causing burner to switch off/on and hot/cold water at taps. Diverter valve and heating seem OK, plate exchanger has been cleared. They advise a new boiler or new secondary heat exchanger and diverter valve to start. Is there a DIY way to get chemical into the boiler's main/secondary heat exchangers (not the heating initially) or should I just add X800 or F3 through a towel radiator and hope for improvement over time?
I thought of draining off the boiler and using a basic hand siphon pump to get X800 / F3 in through the heating return, where there is a cap above the isolation. Thanks.
Hi Alan, great Vid, might sound like a daft question but how did you actually Syphon/create pull on the liquid cleaner without sucking the end of the pipe to create vacuum? Or did you....another great vid.
i wondered about this, perhaps opening the drain cock with the cleaner bottle connected. draining water then creating the negative pressure?
Suggestion for next vlog...getting a proper filter installed.
Which filters do you like? Thanks.
Allen Hart Last year I fitted an ADEY Pro1 28mm on the return flow to my Ideal boiler...I’d send you a foto if I knew how.
@@robinmyman Adey Pro is a great filter.
Always such a pleasure learning from the “Jedi master” I sound like a bumbling idiot 😂 not my finest hour of explanation sorry guys..
Richard Hodgson 😂😂😂You are doing an amazing job
Allen Hart just don’t mention that bloody strap in your van 🤣🤣 very nearly used a knife on it 😁
Richard Hodgson I forgot about that
All the best and good luck on your Journey Richard, I was a late starter into the industry and It changed my life, hope yore enjoying it and just remember even for the experienced, every day is a school day 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Shane Raffaelli thanks Shane
I can see you are very connected to the problem and succesful as well. My problem is I added a quart of Rectorseal 8-way and left it in the system then weeks alter heard this hammering kettling sound downstairs. I am thinking it may have loosened all the hard minerals and created sluge at the bottom loop line. What do you think may have been this problem?
Alan great video as per usual
I’ve have woke up this morning and have a gurgling noise on my Vokera vision C when I turn on the hot tap it’s a sealed system
I thought it might be an air lock but after watching your videos I’m not so sure
Can you help?
Ignore the comments that say wanna be friends it is quite a nasty bot.
Great video explanation as always and really nice your helping another fella starting out by passing on experience is priceless and kind .. I’m moving to a house with oil fired boiler and wanting to learn up about them as much as I can . Have you done any videos or recommend a channel
I can look at? Cheers
To allow space for the chemical, did you drain the boiler down in first place? Are the 2 opening to put the chemical available on all boilers?
Hi Allan
The disaner radiator blocking the mains heat exchanger and plates heat exchanger blocking
Regards
Faruk
Hi Faruk. The system was very dirty and this blocked the boiler. We needed to unblock the boiler first and then the rest of the system. Thanks.
great video again Allen! wanted to ask when you use the powerflush machine is the boiler/heating turned off and flow return isolated under the boiler? i would of thought the would need heat for the powerflush machine to work better? thanks
Depends on job really. Normally i would put tees in under boiler, On this one I flushed through the boiler. Thanks.
Is that flushing through the boiler with the heating off? im thinking about the reverse flow on the powerflush working against the boiler pump if the heating is on. Thanks again Allen!
abdul hafiz Boiler was left on and the flow was same way as boiler. You wouldn’t want to do it in reverse. 👍
Great video thanks. Quick question, would you recommend Vokera system boilers? I've heard mixed reviews on them.
Hi Allen great video as usual, quick question on how do you siphon the cleaner into the boiler?
it shows you in this video. Thanks czcams.com/video/q2vl1Yh19vw/video.html
@@AllenHart999 thanks Allen 👍
The heat exchanger is just a series of _parallel_ coils. Other heat exchangers have a _spiral._ Allen, did just isolating the CH flow & return then just running the Fernox around the Heat X by running the DHW tap, do the trick? Or was the full flush needed?
Yes it did do the trick but the system water was really bad. So we did a full flush. Thanks.
@@AllenHart999
how long did it take running just the hot tap?
Hi Allen Hart, I have an Alpha 40GS with mains water flushing out of the condensate pipe in full volume even when boiler is off.
Boiler works for 10 minutes then stops showing an error.
Any idea what is going on here?
I'm hoping you can answer this question as there's not many experts around who can answer this question.
I thought it was a porno video when I saw that title Allen.
Just my dirty mind.😂👍
great video. one question - Whats the overall cost of this job approx? compared to the worst case, that the boiler needs replacing.
Very good question. Depends on lots of things really. Just remember it would still need flushing if you changed the boiler. Thanks
Thanks very much for your comment, please consider subscribing to support the channel 🙂
👍
I can't see how you siphoned in the cleaner?
Thanks Allan. Did you run the hot tap for circulation within the boiler?
Umar K Yes, Turned the boiler temp down to start with and then turned it up a bit at a time. Only banged on high fire but main heat exchanger was very bad.
Hi Alan on the power flush machine , why are you using a washing machine connection the overflow
Is it possible to come and do a bit of training like this with you?
Which pipe did you add the cleaner to in the boiler.what’s out called in the boiler manual? Thanks
Hi, i added cleaner to my heating system after the boiler was making some banging noises but now there no hot water or heating. The boiler fires up but seems like its blocked and not able tho pump the hot water around
How did you siphon the chemical into heat exchanger mate
This video shows that. Thanks czcams.com/video/q2vl1Yh19vw/video.html
Hi Allen, just want watch the full video which you were editing on this video, can you please put the link.
Thanks, can you run through the f3 siphoning it into main heat exchanger and ,how do do you achieve it ..many thanks again
yes. I will do a video soon. Thanks.
Hi Allen. How did you syphon the chemicals into hx? Tia
Hi there, I may have a similar problem but on mine is that when you call for hot water ,the radiator will heat up before getting hot water. We have a baxi dual it has about 10years or more. Also, we get the banging noises for hot water and I noticed one of the radiator was blocked when trying to drain the system. Will very much appreciate your advice thank you.
My combi started banging this morning, i bled the nearest radiator to the boiler that has never been on ( tvr set to zero) and its stopped banging. 🤞
Does the system have or need a bypass? Thanks.
@@AllenHart999 it's started banging again, not as loud or as often though. It's mainly when the heating has got to the set temp on my thermostat in the hallway and then when the boiler stops heating it then starts banging. Any ideas on what I can try next? I'm not good with plumbing and won't touch anything gas, but I am a tools person
I have a plumber booked in, but I also have a £500 bill on my car coming soon 😭
Thanks Allen - how would i descale a Vaillant boiler on a open vented system please ?
my worcester greenstar ri 18 heat onlt boiler keeps going on to over heat and lock out turning off .. are they very sensitive to air locks/blockages as i have drained the system down to to replacing a radiator valve ?
Have a baxi boiler very noisy a lot it times had BG out 4 times for it still does it what is the problem so I can tell them next time I call them out have lost faith with BG now
How much do you charge to stop a baxi duo tec 28 boiler from banging?
how to clean heat exchanger of pottrton combi boiler
How do you flush a Baxi system boiler heat exchanger? Thanks
Do you think you have cleaned all the tubes or just enough so it works. ?
Once you get them to flow they are normally ok. Thanks.
Which heat exchanger do you think is more reliable a flat plate or a round coil.
Thanks
If the boiler is installed correctly and the system flushed then most heat exchangers will be fine.
Hi
Can you give me some advice please. Iv been in a living hell for a week now due to been waken by noise through my house.
I first thought it was something in my house so I got everything check.
It's a strong rumbling noise, sounds like beginning of earthquake rumble then, constant vibration which sounds like deep sound in pipes maybe and and extremely low grinding repetitive chugging sounds..
Someone who came to visit pointed to a wall saying that's where noise source is coming from.. Guess what that's where neighbours boiler is on other side of that wall
I did knock and the neighbour was argumentative straight away saying that they have had there boiler checked in the past so there's no way it can be there boiler,
My landlord won't help me with the issue either. I'm at breaking point.
Does the noise sound like it could be there boiler, and if so why has it suddenly become so noisy??
Hi Alan, how would you flush a Baxi system boiler heat exchanger? Thanks
Hi Allen, I've under one-year-old viessmann vitodens 100w wb1b 19kw boiler. Recently I've noticed my primary pump next to the big cylinder constantly on even not hot water or heating on. I've checked a few times and the pump doesn't turn off after heating hot water off. Its runs 24x7 at the moment. Is this normal? What could be wrong?
Already replied on other post. Thanks
Hi Alan do you use any other makes of clearners and what do you fined works the best.
I have used x800 a lot and i like that. Thanks.
Hi mate my Worcester Bosch boiler making banging noise occasionally what’s causing this and how much cost to flush the fully heating system three bed semidetached house
Can you siphon in chemicals in to the alpha intec 28x ? Thanks alan
Hi Allan our vaillant combi boiler not releasing Hot water what ll be the problem u think....electrician asking lots of money..any help or idea
Ask a gas man to come out and check it. Thanks.
Hi Allen - would you recommend buying a powerflusher ? I haveve read its
better to rent them
Personally i would rather buy my tools, I guess it depends how often you use it. Thanks.
I have an old boiler that is making lots of gurgling sound before it starts an sometimes it doesn't for a couple of minutes before it starts which cleaner do you recommend? I'm having the boiler replaced in Aug but a temp fix before then
How did you syphon the cleaner into the heat exchanger?
What is a smoke sensor malfunction and how to fix it
What did they flush it with - air?
Ive used Sentinel x200 on my older Potterton Suprima which knocks and pops a bit on coming upto temperature after a few minutes. It hasnt changed anything oddly, it was dosed via the heated towel radiator. Would fernox do a better job or is there another issue? Thanks for any tips. The knocking does go after another 5-10 mins or so then sounds like a kettle on boil with the sort of 'hiss' which is much quieter. Tried the pump on a few speeds also. Coolant looks clear.
Use x800
Hi Allen heart great video .. I am from leeds but I work with another gas engineer from Bradford.. I was wondering if you tell me how I can get more with in and what’s a good price to charge for boiler replacements .. thanks
What?
Can we put on rads f3??
Yes, F3 went into rads and then we flushed it all out. Thanks.
@@AllenHart999 💪💪
How would you do this on a Grant Vortex?
How much would a power flush like that cost?
how did you syphon the f3
I think it shows you on this one czcams.com/video/q2vl1Yh19vw/video.html
@@AllenHart999 thanks mate ill watch it, just discovered your videos, really enjoying them will go back and watch your older stuff to. Thanks
Can you do it on Worcester bosch boiler
Yes definitely, Its easier as they have a drain off in the boiler. Thanks.
@@AllenHart999 where do you put cleaner in
@@paulbentley849 Via the air vent at top, Just suck it in while you drain water out of the boiler. Close isolation valves first underneath though.
My condesing boiler makes a bang the same time every day been told by heating engineer after sharing a video of it making the noise, he says it sounds like the heat exchanger and will need a new boiler, have any advice or can you fix it. Post code WA8 9HH
Bet you are good at pictionary.....
No idea what you mean but thank you so much for the comment.
👍🤓👍
You got a van back now then?
I use the Van for installs and flushing. I use the car as much as possible for everything else. Thanks
Hi i would like to be plumber
Any fast track to do
czcams.com/video/sx538iI6rys/video.html
Thanks very much for your comment, please consider subscribing to support the channel 🙂
Price of this you may aswell put a new boiler in as an alpha is old and crap
Hi Alan you don’t talk much about how you syphon this cleaner in the exchanger , I tried but it was really hard to push this liquid in to the exchanger directly plz explain bit more so we can do a bit more I want to know about Alpha boiler not any plz .
Touch wood 😁😁😁😁👌⚘😁
👍👍👍
Good job, whats the cost of this work? Cheers
Depends
I had a noisy boiler too. Here is my video on how I cleaned and corrected the problem.
czcams.com/video/ufrVRTg64ac/video.html
Won't last, you'll never get all the crap just with chemicals
Just been to one that i saved 4 or 5 years back and its still going strong. Never had one fail yet but never say never.
@@AllenHart999 good effort Allen but I think sometimes that sludge goes rock hard and no water or chemical in the world is going to shift it
@@jimmyfletcher123 I totally agree, I have been lucky so far but I have always brought them back. The day will come though when it doesn't work. Thanks.
Shouldn't speak about the mother in law like that!
I have never given a negative comment to any of your videos.
Unfortunately i do not agree with fast track courses.They have done a lot more damage to the industry than good for obvious reasons.I have NEVER met a properly trained plumbing and heating engineer say anything different.Fast course cowboys are responsible for a lot of the bad publicity we get.
Some of the best heating engineers I know did a fast track course. It’s the start of a journey for them. Unfortunately the days of long apprenticeships are gone. Thanks and Happy New Year