That’s the scary part. He doesn’t have to be subtle about it. He can do practically anything he wants at this point with no consequences. He is literally one of the most powerful people in Baldur’s Gate if you ascend him. If you try to leave him he can always keep you there against your will. If anyone tries to intervene they might meet a worse fate. Spawn Astarion spun pretty words to lure people into his web. Ascended Astarion doesn’t need manipulation. That much power and you can have anyone you want.
This is such a beautifully fucked up scene: your Tav trying to justify her actions by asking Astarion if he's learned anything, her back tracking after Astarion's ultimatum and being called out on her hypocrisy, all after his declaration that everything is about power. It feels very much like they are both putting on a show for their own sakes. Tav to convince herself that everything she did for Astarion was worth it and she has to stay with him now, sunk costs and all that. And Astarion embracing his role as an all powerful master so he doesn't have to deal with the shock he obviously felt at the beginning of the scene.
It's so strange that some players find this scene hot and others find it absolutely gruesome and disturbing. I mean i can understand how it's objectively hot but my main gripe with AA is how he tolerates absolutely no opposition, and it reminds me of an abusive ex of mine. He's ready to ditch the person he allegedly loves the second they show the tiniest sign of disobedience. I just let him ascend for the heck of it and became gradually more uncomfortable with every word he spoke, then kicked him in the balls at the spawn ceremony and reloaded a save fast as fuck
Well, the ascended Astarion is different. I think he still loves Tav and won't hurt her when she's his spawn, but the power he has in the ritual has changed him a lot. He became obsessed with power, power in general. Over the city, over the people. I think his love for Tav has also turned into an obsession. When the ascended Astarion tells Tav that he loves her, he does it in such a way that it sounds like a forced lie. He knows this, which is why when you read his thoughts, it appears that he thinks Tav will degrace herself when she is with him. He's not evil in general, he will definitely keep her safe and won't hurt her, but he certainly won't let her be independent in any way. Tav is his and he means it very literally. When he says that she is his, he means THAT, not that they are in a relationship and belong to each other as equal partners in terms of feelings and love. I think he can still love her, but in his own way, and for him, loving Tav is about controlling her, literally owning her, which has many disadvantages obviously. Ascended Astarion will definitely not tolerate opposition in any aspect of life, plus with this attitude he will always be afraid that Tav will somehow leave him or lose her, simply thinking this way, he will never fully trust her, even with control over her because she is his spawn. Such a burden can destroy his and her mind, and Tav will always feel like a slave, because I don't think he would ever let her become a real vampire. The ritual has changed his personality so much that he will not agree to it, because he knows that it will create competition for him, and this is not something that the ascended Astarion tolerates, he wants to have power for himself. Moreover, he will also lose full control over Tav, which in my opinion, when his love turned into obsession will not allow him to do. He will always justify himself that Tav is his consort and she doesn't have to turn into a real vampire because it's not her time yet. Ascended Astarion is quite unique, he has good traits, but the evil... no, not evil literally, more like toxic and manipulative ones dominate. Even in his conversations with Tav, it is clear that he talks to her in exactly the same way as at the beginning of their relationship - that is, he has returned to his manipulative tricks. By the way, that's really good work by his voice actor.
I think his perspetive of love becomes completely twisted, how could it not, seeing as some sense of ownership and power is automatically linked to it? I think, with time, that love will continue to worsen and eventually become toxic, rotten, until he becomes his own type of Cazador.
The best thing isn't just the voice acting work tho.... It's the full thing it's all motion cap work so his movement, his smile, his voice it all fits so well because the actor (Neil bowmon) is basically doing it all himself it's bloody incredible work from everyone who worked on this game all the cast nailed it as actors!
after i ascended astarion all my feelings went out the door. he basically sold his soul to the devil for more power. but if it was me i wouldve ascended too. Its just sad to expirience such a lovely character becoming so narcissistic and vile by basically helping him.
This was disgusting, I’m glad I killed the Spawn during the ritual to stop it (not including Astarion), if this was the ending I got with him I would have just closed the game and started anew.
I am so late to this but WAIT he gave her a drop of HIS blood??! Doesnt that mean she is a true vampire and can technically defy him? Because that CHANGES THINGS. The master has to give the spawn their own blood to make them a true vampire. And he did, or am I wrong?
No, it would require much more blood than that and then they would bite him back or something. Regardless, he only gave one drop and even calls them his spawn.
@@valkyrie6691 Yep true, at least according to Van Richten's. AA mentions the drop of blood and the 'conveying of Mephistopheles blessing' very close together. I'm taking it to mean he's talking about the protection from the sun.
I like ascended Astarion just for the opportunity for Tav and him to be together eternally. Otherwise, Tav would die first, and he would remain forever mourning in the shadows. Spawn Astarion was also thirsty for power and revenge, it's part of his personality, but it seems like everyone forgets that and thinks that only AA is obsessed with power. If this was really his motivation and his dream as a spawn, I don't see why he shouldn't be proud of himself for having accomplished this. Another perspective that I came to see in another comment is that AA thinks you are degrading yourself for him, not because he is a toxic piece of shit, but because he spent 200 years not seeing value in himself, just being a slave and serving to his master. He doesn't see himself as worthy of deep and true connections, of love and companionship because he didn't experience it, and this is a characteristic that remained throughout his process.
a big part of the reason why my druid ascended him aside from the sunlight thing. she'd defend herself saying that none of her options were good there regarding the spawn sacrificed , that there was no way of knowing how many would reform themselves and how many would go bad or feral of seven thousand which is a big number , a small handful could do serious damage to a town on their own let alone that many. So he was right in the aspect of at least let their sacrifice mean something ( the only piece of his manipulation she openly went along with ) . aside from giving up the sun her lifespan is a finite one ( she was a half elf like shadowheart ) and short lived compared to the longevity of the elves. So in a few decades he would be all alone with no one again , she couldn't do it in good conscience. So long as he is good to her despite immortality never being something she ever really wanted to seek , she sees that as a better end because at least they have eachother and she can do her best to try and see that he's happy. My druid was a nuetral alignment so she had some bite in her personality where she would make some biting remarks or be a dick ( usually if they deserved it ) but she was 90% good and helped a lot of people.
dnd vampire lore, vampires are incapable of feeling love. You can't mourn something you don't love. No one forgets SA was like this. It's simply that their paths diverge. SA's is a healing journey. He starts to work through the obsession for power and revenge. AA embraces it & it becomes his driving force. As a side note, being obsessed with power and revenge are unhealthy things to aspire to in ones' life. Being proud of achieving it probably shouldn't be something to be praised or condoned by one's friends or lovers, especially if they profess to actually care about the person in question. However, it is a game, and if you're roleplaying an evil playthrough, there's absolutely no harm in that. To see another person as degrading themselves to be with them is not a reflection on how that person is viewing themselves. It is an opinion they hold about the other person that's based in narcissism, wherein they very much see you as below them. Not on the same level. Beneath them. Therefore, can be treated as less than. It's not because he feels he is unworthy of you being with him. The dark desires that full vampires experience, means he no longer yearns for deep or meaningful connections. It's literally impossible for him now, because vampirism is a curse. He talks a good talk, which is what he knows you want to hear, but is not reflective of how he actually feels or thinks.
That's absolutely not what that means, the rest of the verse but maybe you want to be degraded and he knows it, he feels you are no longer worthy and just as bad as the servants in Cazador's mansion degrading yourself just to be turned
@@angelstarlight6030 Yep, agreed. And he despised those servants for degrading themselves in the hopes of becoming vampires. Doesn't bode well for how he continues to see you down the path of the relationship.
Good grief, watching Astarion descend into this abusive megalomaniac actually hurts.
It's so sad
He just becomes a pure narcissist but he’s a lot more obvious about his manipulation of his lover than real life narcissists can be.
That’s the scary part. He doesn’t have to be subtle about it. He can do practically anything he wants at this point with no consequences. He is literally one of the most powerful people in Baldur’s Gate if you ascend him. If you try to leave him he can always keep you there against your will. If anyone tries to intervene they might meet a worse fate. Spawn Astarion spun pretty words to lure people into his web. Ascended Astarion doesn’t need manipulation. That much power and you can have anyone you want.
This is such a beautifully fucked up scene: your Tav trying to justify her actions by asking Astarion if he's learned anything, her back tracking after Astarion's ultimatum and being called out on her hypocrisy, all after his declaration that everything is about power. It feels very much like they are both putting on a show for their own sakes. Tav to convince herself that everything she did for Astarion was worth it and she has to stay with him now, sunk costs and all that. And Astarion embracing his role as an all powerful master so he doesn't have to deal with the shock he obviously felt at the beginning of the scene.
It's so strange that some players find this scene hot and others find it absolutely gruesome and disturbing. I mean i can understand how it's objectively hot but my main gripe with AA is how he tolerates absolutely no opposition, and it reminds me of an abusive ex of mine. He's ready to ditch the person he allegedly loves the second they show the tiniest sign of disobedience. I just let him ascend for the heck of it and became gradually more uncomfortable with every word he spoke, then kicked him in the balls at the spawn ceremony and reloaded a save fast as fuck
5:28 lol I can tell your reaction from that mouse fluttering around
I needed a second to process
Well, the ascended Astarion is different. I think he still loves Tav and won't hurt her when she's his spawn, but the power he has in the ritual has changed him a lot. He became obsessed with power, power in general. Over the city, over the people. I think his love for Tav has also turned into an obsession. When the ascended Astarion tells Tav that he loves her, he does it in such a way that it sounds like a forced lie. He knows this, which is why when you read his thoughts, it appears that he thinks Tav will degrace herself when she is with him.
He's not evil in general, he will definitely keep her safe and won't hurt her, but he certainly won't let her be independent in any way. Tav is his and he means it very literally. When he says that she is his, he means THAT, not that they are in a relationship and belong to each other as equal partners in terms of feelings and love. I think he can still love her, but in his own way, and for him, loving Tav is about controlling her, literally owning her, which has many disadvantages obviously.
Ascended Astarion will definitely not tolerate opposition in any aspect of life, plus with this attitude he will always be afraid that Tav will somehow leave him or lose her, simply thinking this way, he will never fully trust her, even with control over her because she is his spawn. Such a burden can destroy his and her mind, and Tav will always feel like a slave, because I don't think he would ever let her become a real vampire. The ritual has changed his personality so much that he will not agree to it, because he knows that it will create competition for him, and this is not something that the ascended Astarion tolerates, he wants to have power for himself. Moreover, he will also lose full control over Tav, which in my opinion, when his love turned into obsession will not allow him to do. He will always justify himself that Tav is his consort and she doesn't have to turn into a real vampire because it's not her time yet.
Ascended Astarion is quite unique, he has good traits, but the evil... no, not evil literally, more like toxic and manipulative ones dominate. Even in his conversations with Tav, it is clear that he talks to her in exactly the same way as at the beginning of their relationship - that is, he has returned to his manipulative tricks. By the way, that's really good work by his voice actor.
I think his perspetive of love becomes completely twisted, how could it not, seeing as some sense of ownership and power is automatically linked to it? I think, with time, that love will continue to worsen and eventually become toxic, rotten, until he becomes his own type of Cazador.
The best thing isn't just the voice acting work tho.... It's the full thing it's all motion cap work so his movement, his smile, his voice it all fits so well because the actor (Neil bowmon) is basically doing it all himself it's bloody incredible work from everyone who worked on this game all the cast nailed it as actors!
after i ascended astarion all my feelings went out the door. he basically sold his soul to the devil for more power. but if it was me i wouldve ascended too. Its just sad to expirience such a lovely character becoming so narcissistic and vile by basically helping him.
This was disgusting, I’m glad I killed the Spawn during the ritual to stop it (not including Astarion), if this was the ending I got with him I would have just closed the game and started anew.
Terrifying
Ненавижу эту сцену всем сердцем, потому что она проклята для Карлах... но для отпрыска Баала она идеальна
I am so late to this but WAIT he gave her a drop of HIS blood??! Doesnt that mean she is a true vampire and can technically defy him? Because that CHANGES THINGS. The master has to give the spawn their own blood to make them a true vampire. And he did, or am I wrong?
No, it would require much more blood than that and then they would bite him back or something. Regardless, he only gave one drop and even calls them his spawn.
@@valkyrie6691 Yep true, at least according to Van Richten's. AA mentions the drop of blood and the 'conveying of Mephistopheles blessing' very close together. I'm taking it to mean he's talking about the protection from the sun.
I like ascended Astarion just for the opportunity for Tav and him to be together eternally. Otherwise, Tav would die first, and he would remain forever mourning in the shadows.
Spawn Astarion was also thirsty for power and revenge, it's part of his personality, but it seems like everyone forgets that and thinks that only AA is obsessed with power. If this was really his motivation and his dream as a spawn, I don't see why he shouldn't be proud of himself for having accomplished this.
Another perspective that I came to see in another comment is that AA thinks you are degrading yourself for him, not because he is a toxic piece of shit, but because he spent 200 years not seeing value in himself, just being a slave and serving to his master. He doesn't see himself as worthy of deep and true connections, of love and companionship because he didn't experience it, and this is a characteristic that remained throughout his process.
Play an elf - then you can both be together forever - or for an insanely long time atleast :)
a big part of the reason why my druid ascended him aside from the sunlight thing. she'd defend herself saying that none of her options were good there regarding the spawn sacrificed , that there was no way of knowing how many would reform themselves and how many would go bad or feral of seven thousand which is a big number , a small handful could do serious damage to a town on their own let alone that many. So he was right in the aspect of at least let their sacrifice mean something ( the only piece of his manipulation she openly went along with ) . aside from giving up the sun her lifespan is a finite one ( she was a half elf like shadowheart ) and short lived compared to the longevity of the elves. So in a few decades he would be all alone with no one again , she couldn't do it in good conscience. So long as he is good to her despite immortality never being something she ever really wanted to seek , she sees that as a better end because at least they have eachother and she can do her best to try and see that he's happy. My druid was a nuetral alignment so she had some bite in her personality where she would make some biting remarks or be a dick ( usually if they deserved it ) but she was 90% good and helped a lot of people.
dnd vampire lore, vampires are incapable of feeling love. You can't mourn something you don't love. No one forgets SA was like this. It's simply that their paths diverge. SA's is a healing journey. He starts to work through the obsession for power and revenge. AA embraces it & it becomes his driving force.
As a side note, being obsessed with power and revenge are unhealthy things to aspire to in ones' life. Being proud of achieving it probably shouldn't be something to be praised or condoned by one's friends or lovers, especially if they profess to actually care about the person in question.
However, it is a game, and if you're roleplaying an evil playthrough, there's absolutely no harm in that.
To see another person as degrading themselves to be with them is not a reflection on how that person is viewing themselves. It is an opinion they hold about the other person that's based in narcissism, wherein they very much see you as below them. Not on the same level. Beneath them. Therefore, can be treated as less than. It's not because he feels he is unworthy of you being with him.
The dark desires that full vampires experience, means he no longer yearns for deep or meaningful connections. It's literally impossible for him now, because vampirism is a curse. He talks a good talk, which is what he knows you want to hear, but is not reflective of how he actually feels or thinks.
"He feels as if you degrade urself by beeing with him". Baby boy is all dark and evil now and STILL doesn't think hes good enough. 😭
That's absolutely not what that means, the rest of the verse but maybe you want to be degraded and he knows it, he feels you are no longer worthy and just as bad as the servants in Cazador's mansion degrading yourself just to be turned
@@angelstarlight6030 Yep, agreed. And he despised those servants for degrading themselves in the hopes of becoming vampires. Doesn't bode well for how he continues to see you down the path of the relationship.
That romance scene was so HOT 🥵🥵