I had always been under the impression that while Vengeance was Section 31, the Dreadnaught class had always been intended for Starfleet, once Marcus had successfully implemented his more militaristic doctrine
I think that'sthe most frustrating thing about Discovery for me, they made all these beautifully designed, advanced ships... and expect me to believe they existed in the Kirk era. Ships that would make sense in the 24th century.
I think what I found most frustrating about Discovery is that it's just awful. Really, really awful. Not just because it's not like old Star Trek, but because it was bad all by itself. The story is bad, the characters are bad, the lead character is completely unlikable and so deserves absolutely no respect from the audience. And then all the action scenes are like a Care Bear who's eaten a diet of only Skittles for their entire life has vomited all over the screen. It's just really terrible. And yeah, the ships look too futuristic, and have too much futuristic tech to fit into the timeline.
I hope they do more on section 31, a secret agency, that is judge, jury and executioner. That was part of star fleet since the beginning. Article 14 section 31,Love it
Except they cant do it very well so I hope not... super secret organisaton that can be inbedded in starfleet.... has black badges showing who they are and their own ships! Enterprise did the concept better
A.K.A. Vice Admiral Bob: Congratulations on the promotion, obviously well deserved. Your research on Section 31 is extremely well done. You might take note of the section 31 sponsoring of the USS Pegasus. These organizations are difficult to shut down because in their period of legitimacy, they accumulate resources and technology which is unaccounted for, and untraceable then and even now. Again well done. Keep up the great work - - I may be looking for an EA to the position of Fleet Security-Intelligence. Cheers.
Ah an Admiral, so good to meet you here sir. Say you seem to have some insight into clandestine Operations. We’re scratching our heads over here, yesterday a small convoy went past our outpost at the border of the neutral zone. Upon questioning them an Admiral Patrick answered rather abruptly answering all of our inquiries with "Thats a stupid question!" After carefully studying all the personal files on four star admirals I couldn’t find a Mr. Patrick fitting his description. Could he possibly be Section 31?
I always wondered if the Vengeance had so much storage. Was because it was meant to be completely autonomous. Once it was in active service, it was never going to return to Earth. You hardly want to build a massive secret Starship (seriously, where's the oversight committee?) Then fly it around with the regular ships that can do the same job and get repairs at Starbase. The Vengeance would have to rely on provisions and stealth.
As much as it flubs old style Trek themes, a Kelvin timeline series with an SDF-1 inspired Vengeance would have been great. No city obviously, but basically BSG except them not being in a bucket of bolts, slowly swinging back to the core exploration tenet of the UFP would have had a lot of meat on them bones. Like Clarke tech meets Lovecraft weirdness confronted by Beamy mcWarpsalot the space fortress
with the (added after) canon excessive use of drones by section 31 the Dreadnought's excessive amount of hangers might make sense... drone hangers(maintenance, repair, construction, etc) which is one think that kinda annoyed me about Star Trek, the lack of drones
YES! FINALLY SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN! Star Trek: DS9 is the best Star Trek. It broke down Star Trek, it's political lay out, how Earth was in this future and how The Federation interacted with neighboring galactic governments.
Congrats on your promotion! And yea love the ship classes and "stealthy" looks, sorta looks like a Shadow ship style from another epic show ;) Also do think that Discovery's Kovich has something to do with Section 31, but we will see... LLAP.
Section 31 may/ may not have had any ships at this point, but they were mentioned and existed as far back as the second half of Enterprise season 4. Malcolm Reed's former C.O. was section 31. I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he interacts with Jonathan Archer as well. To explain and justify his actions in compromising Lt. Reed, he tells Capt. Archer to re-read the Federation charter, Article (?), Section 31.
Scotty arrived just as the Vengeance was about to launch. The shuttles were likely unmanned drones on automatic, not ran by an AI. One extra Starfleet shuttle joining wouldn't therefore, trigger any alarms.
Well, if you are going to do covert operations against your enemies the last thing you would want is for your ships to be identified as a Starfleet and therefore Federation ship. Always think about how you can keep your enemies guessing.
I would guess a sizable fleet, distinct of a shadow wing of the Federation does come at the cost of "being under the radar". Using more "federationy" ships and just pretending they are friendly feddies is pretty simple, efficient cover.
I know some people have issues with the cut out sections of the saucer on various ships, but I never have. Assuming the cut out is significant enough, it's less mass for the ship to move. Starfleet ships rely on shield tech anyway, so it's not like there's a significant increase in vulnerability.
Section 31 would still have ships during the late 24th century as evidence by Sloan's ship with the holodeck he put Dr. Bashir in. Whether or not they had a large fleet or a more conservative task force "is also unknown" 😆
I'm learning and then suddenly Hellsing Abridged. That was a great reference... Integra- "You sure seem to know a lot about it" Alucard- "DO YOU EVEN READ MY CHRISTMAS LIST"
A dark enterpise sounds good. Means it the darker and stealthier version of a federation flagship. Wonder how the darker version of Enterpise D looked like in the 24th century of the section 31. Probably like Enterprise-D dreadnought seen in the TNG finale or maybe even further modifications ?
Not sure if ShatnerVerse novels count but there's supposed to be ships assigned for the Project Magnet which deals with the Mirror Universe&then later evolved to Project Sign which deals with the Preservers. They usually watch out for Mirror Universe incursions and then following up on the the Preserver artifacts being discovered all over the place like duplicate Andoria, Tellar, Vulcan, Earths, etc. ST Discovery had an easy way to get Emperor Georgiou into OTL canon by having her return back in TOS era and starting the Project Magnet/Sign especially since Mirror Lorca had jumped into the TOS universe. Also Kirk's Enterprise had multiple encounters of multiversal entities that needs to be dealt with. Seems like the Preservers had picked Kirk as their favored pet and likely at least one ship is assigned to shadow the current starship Enterprise.
The dreadnought vengeance was originally meant to be a cargo vessel or something... supposedly, so the hull was known, halted then turned into the vengeance.
Uh-heheh.. NO. The Vengeance, being a Black Site Project, was hidden under the auspice of being a cargo ship, total and typical Military Top Classification. It would be like saying the B2 Bomber was going to be a "revolutionary cargo plane" not the most advanced Stealth bomber ever built to that point. Not entirely untrue. Just that the cargo is a LOT of weapons or varying types. The Vengeance was designed to be heavily automated because (go figure) it is 1) a warship that 2) needed to be operational if she lost too much of her crew. Also the weird part that Star Trek does not use robots/droids/drones to do repairs aboard ship would free any remaining crew to do repairs and other ships functions aside from actually running the ship (as I said ,"weird"). Further the ship was designed to carry an absolutely enormous number of drop ships, combat vehicles, personnel (Marines), and ordinance. It was being built, as the first of many, to fight a long protracted war, if called for, against the Klingons, Adm Marcus' main impetus for building the ship. Also, and really telling, the Vengeance was built and engineered to take an absolutely insane amount of punishment, as shown by the ship remaining almost totally intact upon crashing into the ground, plowing through Alcatraz island, and only the neck breaking while razing a huge section of the city of San Francisco. NO ONE builds a mere cargo ship to be THAT tough. But you do build dedicated warships to be that tough. The "Evil Admiral" trope is just lazy Star Trek writing by people who have no idea how any competent military actually works. You do not build a ship that wildly outstrips everything you've build so far, on the heels of the Narada and the ungodly mess that one ship made, in the hands of angry space miners not trained and driven professional soldiers/sailors (whatever), and looking over the fence at the Klingons making plans and declarations they want to go to war with the Federation. The Federation Government and Starfleet absolutely knew the Vengeance was being built AND Khan was being thawed out to command or at least advise. Building a ship like that requires a LOT of Resources, manpower, and tying up facilities, if not building a new one from scratch to do so. One rouge flag officer is NOT going to be able to pull such a thing off "in Secret". The Vengeance was NOT EVER going to be a cargo ship, unless again you mean it was going to carry and deliver LOADS of Weapons and troops. You know? Like a Battleship rapidly and aggressively delivering stupid amounts of firepower to the enemy, which they wanted it or not.
The interiors of those ships, with the blue lighting, is so much cooler than the regular ships. In fact I can't help thinking there seems a distinct Imperial Star Destroyer vibe to it, if people can forgive me for crossing the streams
Pretty safe bet that by TNG, Section 31 didn't have any ships. My reasoning for this is the Pegasus, if they had ships they wouldn't have brought in Starfleet personnel to test out a phased cloak. Just an observation.
Scotty got ahold of a Shuttle that had an Area 31 signature to it, or he found a signal and piggybacked long enough to get access and abandoned it and the shuttle after boarding. He only lets you know of his capabilites with what he deems it is vital for YOU to think he knows, talk to Geordi LeForge. Also, this could be a series and a few movies by itself with good writers, but that doesn't exist anymore.
@@chasethevioletsun9996 that is exactly what I was thinking that's like sending the CIA or FBI's combat unit's to fight the army, navy, and, marine corps with all of their personnel and vehicles in open battle section 31 may be a highly advanced top secret Organization with technology a century ahead of starfleet but they are equipped for stealth operations not for open and direct engagements well the not the discovery version of section 31 that is
@10:35 No... not Warp 12. Assuming the Kelvin timeline keeps to the TOS warp scale... the Enterprise could achieve Warp 8 (1024c) maximum. Therefore, 3x that speed would be Warp 11.13 (approx 3072c). Warp 12 would be 3956c
I liked the video, BUT, there was no mention of Agent Slone, from an episode of DS9. Agent Slone commanded a ship that was similar to U.S.S. Voyager. (It was shown very briefly.)
Ah if you are talking about the USS Bellerophon, the intrepid class ship in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges", that was under the command of Admiral Ross and not of Sloane. It was used as a base of operations for Sloanes S31 mission on Romulus, but wasn't an official S31 vessel. But it'd definitely be interesting if Sloane did have a vessel, maybe how he got aboard DS9 all those times? Secret stealth ship!
Section 31 is so efficient, secretive and lethal that they work best in small doses on screen. Anything more takes the fear and illusion away from them. It also seems silly that they have their own starships, that really takes away from being a part of the Federation that doesn't exist. I thought the whole idea was they are so secretive that they don't exist. Section 31 only exists in the minds of the members of Section 31
I like to think that they have these secret ships that would only ever been in use if Earth was threatened directly, with enemy vessels entering Sol System. Then sudenly these powerfull mysterious ships would appear to protect Earth and prevent an invasion and disappear again.
@@felipeandrade2761 I guess the several Borg attacks on Earth's Solar system and the Breen attack on Starfleed HQ was not deemed worthy of defending against?
I believe they had a ship in ds9 we see doctor Bashir in a Voyager type holodeck. And it had some stealth abilities as it was detected by ds9 . And sloan was able to get in ans out without detction .
*05:05* So the federation will still remember for the ancestor father's name (Nimrod/Nimrud/Ménrot) of the hungarians (Kan'gar/Kien'gir/Ma'dah/Mah'gar) in the XXIII cventury. Nice!
14:12 it only “flattened” Alcatraz not San Francisco. Why were so many people just walking around on the sidewalk 2 minutes later? Think that was ridiculous.
The drones were a modification by the nanites of control. not standard. they were made from the hull that was no longer needed with all the crew dead...
[Non Canon] Then there's the ISS Conqueror (slightly larger than four times the Enterprise D of either timeline) that was "acquired" by the USS Dauntless crew and secretly became a mobile command ship for Section 31 for nearly a decade, then refitted as an evacuation/ hospital ship.
I have to admit, I sort of knew we were in for a bad time when S31 was so openly prominent in Disco S2. To me, that felt like they didn't understand what made them interesting to begin with. Plus the rogue computer had been done before.
+Trek Central the Two large drones can be seen inside the intersecting Warp babbles during the attack one of them hits the Enterprise on the edge of the picture. Though two are shown there is actually more than two installed as well as the smaller versions on the saucer. & yes it does have a lot of bays they are for fighter craft one side of the bridge facing up is for ship operations and control and the one facing down is for fleet logistics and control and management of the shuttles and fighter bays. & while the ship is configured "pre-war" to operate in automated role, in a post war role it would have a larger crew (mostly housed in the saucer) and a lot of those would be pilots of the fighters. Since the cargo deck doesn't have the normal door designs much of the unloading and unloading would be done to the saucer section bays. Oh and she has a special anti-sensor coating on her making her hard to see and hard to get a target lock on too.
I only have one issue with section 31 ship designs - they shouldn't have their own ship designs with the caveat that they need to be this shape for anti-sensor sheganery (similar to the b-2 irl) This is an organisation that is trying to give appearance of not existing, the best way to do that is to just use ships that to outside viewers is just another ship. Ok so they dont have man power needed to man a constitution class but what about a miranda or oberth? Same argument goes for the Black Badges earlier on.
When sloan pops up in to check on bashire he is either on a cloaked ship outside DS9 which i think is what happened or he beemed using the transwarp transportation. You know they HAVE to have secret cloaked ships.
Congratulations, Lieutenant! Here's to ,any more decades of distinguished service! Speaking personally, I always thought it completely redundant that Section 31 even needed any capital sized ships. Their whole shtick was being able to impersonate or infiltrate as needed to become part of any crew that their assignments required. That's what made their mystique so unnerving! Yet another way that the Abrams-verse/Discovery Era producers and writers have failed to understand subtlety.
@@anndrei86 "IRONIC"...Yeah, sure. That SO MANY "less than talented writers" conjured up ALL OF THESE "UBERSHIPS" just to "DWARF ANYTHING in cannon" that "OLD Star Trek" had, so that the "NEW STAR TREK" can have the "BIGGEST and the BADDEST of ALL OF THE Starfleets." A Lot of "Irony" there, right?
@@anndrei86 I just think that it is immature thinking that assumes that "Bigger = Better." A small submarine could sink a battleship under the right circumstance. Maybe these "writers" should read up on World History....neh?
Imagine if a ship was just cruising along, exploring space and charting maps, but then they find out that there are actually section 31 personnel on board using the ship as a sleeper ship of sorts, conducting a top secret mission once they arrived at the destination and awoken from their cryosleep, could be interesting.
in bridge commander there is something called a valiant class, its a defiant style vessel in the 25th century which was also used by section 31. You can search it up its a beautiful ship and should have been implemented in star trek canon
Had dominion war went on longer Starfleet ships fleet wide would receive captain s rank only specs for a phasing cloak .and other highly questionable weapons which can 1 shot destroy any ship . mysteriously( found) by Starfleet intelligence on unknown ship . This technology instantly changes course of war to the point have dominion running back to the mouth of wormhole for fear of a ship appearing over founder home world de phasing cloaking and transporting a warp core to surface to destroy founders . Unfortunate with this plan Starfleet become s closer to the mirror universe empire .
I like your completely ambiguous accent... Subbed I have decided it's Irish or an extremely well spoken Newfoundland 10:28 - Easy. He was partly responsible for the very security systems, in use and thus, could easily circumvent them. This is made up in my head.
Star Trek does have nanites, Wesley Crusher was experimenting with them. Anyway why not have them embedded into the ship for repair and support. In a way it would make the ships similar to Borg cubes except in size. (Imagine the shock in enemies when they see it repair itself and destroy them with proper choiced weapons.) (In a way it resembles knights riding their war horses.) For extreme adaptation such a ship would have superior battle abilities. And when there is sufficient power source and a few extra material resources, with replicator tech, the ship can remain self sufficient for a long period.
Whats funny is that if discovery was in the main timeline how come we didn't hear anything about the incidents that took place in any other series? I could understand if they based discovery on a story or few historical facts told of seen in tos,tng,voy, or ds9. But nothing. So it still leaves people wondering if it's also a different timeline since all the aliens are different than any in the main series's aliens. Just sayin.
I have always subscribed to there being 4 base universes the shows are set in. Most are in the prime universe (TOS,TNG, DS9, ect). Then there is the mirror universe (no need to explain that one). Third there is what I call the Abramsuniverse which covers the 3 re-boot movies, and then lastly Discoveryverse which of course covers the events in Discovery. Splitting it up into those 4 universes, makes everything make sense without any one show messing with another.
actually they cover that at the end of Discovery S2, in the event Control or the time traveling virus that turned Control rampant was still out there looking for the sphere data, All but the most basic record of Discovery after acquiring the data was essentially purged from Starfleet record, with Discovery listed as lost with all hands, the few who knew otherwise, Pike, Spock and other Enterprise crew, were subsequently ordered to never divulge the information to anyone, as doing so would be considered treason.
In Roddenberry's star trek there's little use of small craft due to the issue of power generation efficiency and output capabilities. Yes you could make a mini warp core but you would make compromises in cooling, peak vs sustainable power output, overload resistance, and efficiency. The simple issue is a ship that can only fit a warp core the size of a oxygen tank for diving would be slow and rendered target practice that shields would not be enough to stop the bleed threw from still one shot from a actual ship not shuttle that could fit a warp core the size of a 55 gallon drum that could reach warp 5 for more than a minute without a one time boost or booster of some kind. The same goes for a ship that can fit a warp core the size of 5 55 gallon drums vs one as at that point a ship can have a engineering station a tactical station and science station and can have additional dedicated warp core cooling to reach warp 7 for a minute as well as able to keep warp 5 over an hour thats 60X as long suddenly have the ability to vaporize shuttle size ships repetitively like shown when the Borg don't even blink an eye advancing on earth to sol system standard defense forces. Mainly the issue is ships big enough to have a high warp capable warp core and additional hardware around it that can continue to make new warp plasma can be armed with a warp accelerated computer core as well and make clay target practice with semi-auto drum fed shotgun of ships that dont at sublight speeds with warp cores that don't need to be really bigger than 10 55 gallon drums in size like Voyager. There is much debate just how much ship system management gains are made from the organic processing packs on the intrepid class vs having another system on a ship that a formidable advanced enemy like the Borg to exploit. My info is mostly 2370s in star trek.
I got to thinking Section 31 was introduced in DS9. It was in Enterprise and Discovery. It was not in Voyager. I was wondering if they were to have an undercover agent on board, how could that have played out?
Not a big fan of Discovery in general, but I love the design of the NCIA-93. It has definitely become one of my fav star fleet ships.
LMFAO: Admiral "Robocop". Aw man that made my day. Thank you.
I had always been under the impression that while Vengeance was Section 31, the Dreadnaught class had always been intended for Starfleet, once Marcus had successfully implemented his more militaristic doctrine
IT was it was secretly built but was meant to eventually be a main ship.
It reminded of Admiral Rittenhouse and the plot of the Star Trek novel titled DREADNAUGHT
Yeah pretty much
Section 31 in name and shipyard only cause we'll
Who better to secretly build a ship
I think that'sthe most frustrating thing about Discovery for me, they made all these beautifully designed, advanced ships... and expect me to believe they existed in the Kirk era. Ships that would make sense in the 24th century.
They ALWAYS looked like that, it was IMPLIED! We just couldn't SEE it due to our low res TVS back then!
It's an insult. We could have used drones in the Borg war, Dominion war ect. It's like having muscle cars in 1800... pure BS.
@@ZacLowing LOL!
I think what I found most frustrating about Discovery is that it's just awful. Really, really awful. Not just because it's not like old Star Trek, but because it was bad all by itself. The story is bad, the characters are bad, the lead character is completely unlikable and so deserves absolutely no respect from the audience. And then all the action scenes are like a Care Bear who's eaten a diet of only Skittles for their entire life has vomited all over the screen.
It's just really terrible. And yeah, the ships look too futuristic, and have too much futuristic tech to fit into the timeline.
@@mdjmurray then they come out with strange new worlds and it’s good lmao
I hope they do more on section 31, a secret agency, that is judge, jury and executioner. That was part of star fleet since the beginning. Article 14 section 31,Love it
wasn't a section 31 spin off series in the production ? with philippa georgiou joining them ?
A very Klingon notion.
@@anubhavpal5782 It's in the works, but they aren't going to really start it until Discovery is done.
Except they cant do it very well so I hope not... super secret organisaton that can be inbedded in starfleet.... has black badges showing who they are and their own ships! Enterprise did the concept better
@@PlayerOne2013 Babylon 5's PsiCorp did it better. They had their HQ permanently sitting in hyperspace.
A.K.A. Vice Admiral Bob: Congratulations on the promotion, obviously well deserved. Your research on Section 31 is extremely well done. You might take note of the section 31 sponsoring of the USS Pegasus. These organizations are difficult to shut down because in their period of legitimacy, they accumulate resources and technology which is unaccounted for, and untraceable then and even now. Again well done. Keep up the great work - - I may be looking for an EA to the position of Fleet Security-Intelligence. Cheers.
Ah an Admiral, so good to meet you here sir. Say you seem to have some insight into clandestine Operations. We’re scratching our heads over here, yesterday a small convoy went past our outpost at the border of the neutral zone. Upon questioning them an Admiral Patrick answered rather abruptly answering all of our inquiries with "Thats a stupid question!"
After carefully studying all the personal files on four star admirals I couldn’t find a Mr. Patrick fitting his description. Could he possibly be Section 31?
The Hellsing Abridged reference threw me for a loop
I’ve been looking for a video like this for a little while, thanks for making it!
Glad it was helpful!
- Jack 🖖
I noticed the vengeance torpedoes were mirvs . Like a modern icbm nuclear missile. A missile with around 6 torpedoes or missiles inside.
This showed up in my algorithm. What a delightful narrative. I will watch more Adam. Thank you.
Congratulations on the promotion.
I always wondered if the Vengeance had so much storage. Was because it was meant to be completely autonomous. Once it was in active service, it was never going to return to Earth. You hardly want to build a massive secret Starship (seriously, where's the oversight committee?) Then fly it around with the regular ships that can do the same job and get repairs at Starbase.
The Vengeance would have to rely on provisions and stealth.
As much as it flubs old style Trek themes, a Kelvin timeline series with an SDF-1 inspired Vengeance would have been great. No city obviously, but basically BSG except them not being in a bucket of bolts, slowly swinging back to the core exploration tenet of the UFP would have had a lot of meat on them bones. Like Clarke tech meets Lovecraft weirdness confronted by Beamy mcWarpsalot the space fortress
Secretly steal tech across the galaxy. Deebo
Admiral Robocop lol
section 13 fleet uses Pringles designs
with the (added after) canon excessive use of drones by section 31
the Dreadnought's excessive amount of hangers might make sense... drone hangers(maintenance, repair, construction, etc)
which is one think that kinda annoyed me about Star Trek, the lack of drones
All the fancy special effects mean nothing compared to good writing and worthwhile characters.
Discovery had both In spades
YES! FINALLY SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN! Star Trek: DS9 is the best Star Trek. It broke down Star Trek, it's political lay out, how Earth was in this future and how The Federation interacted with neighboring galactic governments.
@mandellorian Lol okay...
DS9 didn't need boy genius Wesley Crusher to save them every week. 😂
DS9 is as Star Trek as Discovery season 1, or the Expanse.
Lieutenant Adam, congratulations 🎊🍾🎉🎈 🪅! 🍷
Congrats on your promotion! And yea love the ship classes and "stealthy" looks, sorta looks like a Shadow ship style from another epic show ;) Also do think that Discovery's Kovich has something to do with Section 31, but we will see... LLAP.
Ya, section 31. Just watched the 7th season of DS9 last night where Sloan was killed. Love Section 31! Love to see a new series featuring it!
Section 31 may/ may not have had any ships at this point, but they were mentioned and existed as far back as the second half of Enterprise season 4. Malcolm Reed's former C.O. was section 31. I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he interacts with Jonathan Archer as well. To explain and justify his actions in compromising Lt. Reed, he tells Capt. Archer to re-read the Federation charter, Article (?), Section 31.
Article 14....
Scotty arrived just as the Vengeance was about to launch. The shuttles were likely unmanned drones on automatic, not ran by an AI. One extra Starfleet shuttle joining wouldn't therefore, trigger any alarms.
Iv always liked that season the most… but just thought that the drones on the sec 31 ships were an addition from control. Cool to know.
Well, if you are going to do covert operations against your enemies the last thing you would want is for your ships to be identified as a Starfleet and therefore Federation ship. Always think about how you can keep your enemies guessing.
I would guess a sizable fleet, distinct of a shadow wing of the Federation does come at the cost of "being under the radar". Using more "federationy" ships and just pretending they are friendly feddies is pretty simple, efficient cover.
I know some people have issues with the cut out sections of the saucer on various ships, but I never have. Assuming the cut out is significant enough, it's less mass for the ship to move. Starfleet ships rely on shield tech anyway, so it's not like there's a significant increase in vulnerability.
The reason it is there is for much of the same reasons it is there on a Trade Federation ship in The Phantom Menace.
Section 31 would still have ships during the late 24th century as evidence by Sloan's ship with the holodeck he put Dr. Bashir in. Whether or not they had a large fleet or a more conservative task force "is also unknown" 😆
I'm learning and then suddenly Hellsing Abridged. That was a great reference...
Integra- "You sure seem to know a lot about it"
Alucard- "DO YOU EVEN READ MY CHRISTMAS LIST"
You get a thumbs up for the Helsing Abridged reference.
Section 31 would be a great t.v. show!
the nimrod class looks like an aclamator from star wars (without the bridge tower) with nasals attached to it
Thumbnail: looks like a stripped (down) Romulan Warbird ST: TOS.
The Section 31 bridges are more like a modern Navy's command and control center.
A dark enterpise sounds good. Means it the darker and stealthier version of a federation flagship. Wonder how the darker version of Enterpise D looked like in the 24th century of the section 31. Probably like Enterprise-D dreadnought seen in the TNG finale or maybe even further modifications ?
Very interesting, I enjoyed that.
And am curious about what else Section 31 has up it's sleeve.
More please 👍
Not sure if ShatnerVerse novels count but there's supposed to be ships assigned for the Project Magnet which deals with the Mirror Universe&then later evolved to Project Sign which deals with the Preservers. They usually watch out for Mirror Universe incursions and then following up on the the Preserver artifacts being discovered all over the place like duplicate Andoria, Tellar, Vulcan, Earths, etc. ST Discovery had an easy way to get Emperor Georgiou into OTL canon by having her return back in TOS era and starting the Project Magnet/Sign especially since Mirror Lorca had jumped into the TOS universe. Also Kirk's Enterprise had multiple encounters of multiversal entities that needs to be dealt with. Seems like the Preservers had picked Kirk as their favored pet and likely at least one ship is assigned to shadow the current starship Enterprise.
Section 31: "What if we use the TARDIS as our bridge"
The dreadnought vengeance was originally meant to be a cargo vessel or something... supposedly, so the hull was known, halted then turned into the vengeance.
Uh-heheh.. NO. The Vengeance, being a Black Site Project, was hidden under the auspice of being a cargo ship, total and typical Military Top Classification. It would be like saying the B2 Bomber was going to be a "revolutionary cargo plane" not the most advanced Stealth bomber ever built to that point. Not entirely untrue. Just that the cargo is a LOT of weapons or varying types.
The Vengeance was designed to be heavily automated because (go figure) it is 1) a warship that 2) needed to be operational if she lost too much of her crew. Also the weird part that Star Trek does not use robots/droids/drones to do repairs aboard ship would free any remaining crew to do repairs and other ships functions aside from actually running the ship (as I said ,"weird"). Further the ship was designed to carry an absolutely enormous number of drop ships, combat vehicles, personnel (Marines), and ordinance. It was being built, as the first of many, to fight a long protracted war, if called for, against the Klingons, Adm Marcus' main impetus for building the ship.
Also, and really telling, the Vengeance was built and engineered to take an absolutely insane amount of punishment, as shown by the ship remaining almost totally intact upon crashing into the ground, plowing through Alcatraz island, and only the neck breaking while razing a huge section of the city of San Francisco. NO ONE builds a mere cargo ship to be THAT tough. But you do build dedicated warships to be that tough.
The "Evil Admiral" trope is just lazy Star Trek writing by people who have no idea how any competent military actually works. You do not build a ship that wildly outstrips everything you've build so far, on the heels of the Narada and the ungodly mess that one ship made, in the hands of angry space miners not trained and driven professional soldiers/sailors (whatever), and looking over the fence at the Klingons making plans and declarations they want to go to war with the Federation. The Federation Government and Starfleet absolutely knew the Vengeance was being built AND Khan was being thawed out to command or at least advise. Building a ship like that requires a LOT of Resources, manpower, and tying up facilities, if not building a new one from scratch to do so. One rouge flag officer is NOT going to be able to pull such a thing off "in Secret".
The Vengeance was NOT EVER going to be a cargo ship, unless again you mean it was going to carry and deliver LOADS of Weapons and troops. You know? Like a Battleship rapidly and aggressively delivering stupid amounts of firepower to the enemy, which they wanted it or not.
Automatic subscription due to Team 4 Star reference 🤣👍👍👍
Great video! Thank you ☺️
Thanks for watching!
- Jack 🖖
The Kelvin USS Enterprise and Vengance was the same size, speed and firepower difference as a Constitution class vs a Galaxy class starship.
The interiors of those ships, with the blue lighting, is so much cooler than the regular ships. In fact I can't help thinking there seems a distinct Imperial Star Destroyer vibe to it, if people can forgive me for crossing the streams
Congrats on your promotion Lt Adam.
But Trek Central the F-117 Nighthawk isn't a fighter its a stealth strike aircraft used for air-to-ground and special reconnaissance.
🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very well informatively executed and explained on and about section 31 and there ships indeed👌...
Remember that time Ensign Kim was never promoted after years of service. I remember.
As does Pepperidge Farm.
Pretty safe bet that by TNG, Section 31 didn't have any ships. My reasoning for this is the Pegasus, if they had ships they wouldn't have brought in Starfleet personnel to test out a phased cloak. Just an observation.
Enterprise is a major exception because the definitive pace it set upon temporal fleet analysis.
Can't wait to see more of these Ships.
the section 31 ships are literally just black versions of the saber class and prometheus class with added functions
13:11 DEAD OR ALIVE YOU'RE COMING WITH ME
Section 31 reminds me of the Impossible Missions Force from Classic Mission Impossible.
I thought the smaller flying wing NCIA-93 ones were reverse engineered Romulan Warbirds.
Scotty got ahold of a Shuttle that had an Area 31 signature to it, or he found a signal and piggybacked long enough to get access and abandoned it and the shuttle after boarding. He only lets you know of his capabilites with what he deems it is vital for YOU to think he knows, talk to Geordi LeForge. Also, this could be a series and a few movies by itself with good writers, but that doesn't exist anymore.
@Trek Central your voice sounds so familiar. Do you do videos on Warhammer 40k as well? 😆👍
I WISH. But GW's trademark paranoia would probably declare me Excommunicate Traitoris before I reached 100 views.
I like how Section 31 ships are so crappy in Discovery that the USS Enterprise and USS Discovery can fight about 30 of them at once.
Well they did have 200 shuttles and other small craft that were outfitted with additional defenses.
Well, think of it more as F-117s going up against F-15s. Section 31s ships were not designed for fleet engagements.
@@chasethevioletsun9996 Sort of yeah
@@_Omega_Weapon Exactly!
@@chasethevioletsun9996 that is exactly what I was thinking that's like sending the CIA or FBI's combat unit's to fight the army, navy, and, marine corps with all of their personnel and vehicles in open battle section 31 may be a highly advanced top secret Organization with technology a century ahead of starfleet but they are equipped for stealth operations not for open and direct engagements well the not the discovery version of section 31 that is
@10:35 No... not Warp 12. Assuming the Kelvin timeline keeps to the TOS warp scale... the Enterprise could achieve Warp 8 (1024c) maximum. Therefore, 3x that speed would be Warp 11.13 (approx 3072c). Warp 12 would be 3956c
I liked the video, BUT, there was no mention of Agent Slone, from an episode of DS9.
Agent Slone commanded a ship that was similar to U.S.S. Voyager. (It was shown very briefly.)
Ah if you are talking about the USS Bellerophon, the intrepid class ship in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges", that was under the command of Admiral Ross and not of Sloane. It was used as a base of operations for Sloanes S31 mission on Romulus, but wasn't an official S31 vessel.
But it'd definitely be interesting if Sloane did have a vessel, maybe how he got aboard DS9 all those times? Secret stealth ship!
Section 31 is so efficient, secretive and lethal that they work best in small doses on screen. Anything more takes the fear and illusion away from them. It also seems silly that they have their own starships, that really takes away from being a part of the Federation that doesn't exist. I thought the whole idea was they are so secretive that they don't exist. Section 31 only exists in the minds of the members of Section 31
Having their own starships isn't bad per se. Having their own hideously overpowered ships OTOH...
I like to think that they have these secret ships that would only ever been in use if Earth was threatened directly, with enemy vessels entering Sol System. Then sudenly these powerfull mysterious ships would appear to protect Earth and prevent an invasion and disappear again.
@@felipeandrade2761 I guess the several Borg attacks on Earth's Solar system and the Breen attack on Starfleed HQ was not deemed worthy of defending against?
@@sablevo I mean why not? Space is very big, and when you have a blank check for whatever you want you can get whatever you want
They're either going to prove you right or wrong because apparently there's going to be a movie about section 31
I believe they had a ship in ds9 we see doctor Bashir in a Voyager type holodeck. And it had some stealth abilities as it was detected by ds9 . And sloan was able to get in ans out without detction .
Dark hulls rock, who's with me?
*05:05* So the federation will still remember for the ancestor father's name (Nimrod/Nimrud/Ménrot) of the hungarians (Kan'gar/Kien'gir/Ma'dah/Mah'gar) in the XXIII cventury. Nice!
14:12 it only “flattened” Alcatraz not San Francisco.
Why were so many people just walking around on the sidewalk 2 minutes later? Think that was ridiculous.
"Doritos! 🤣😂🤣" (-James)
The drones were a modification by the nanites of control. not standard. they were made from the hull that was no longer needed with all the crew dead...
Hmm i always thought that the swivel things was something like phaser Canon like in Voyager or som other kind of beam weapon technology
[Non Canon] Then there's the ISS Conqueror (slightly larger than four times the Enterprise D of either timeline) that was "acquired" by the USS Dauntless crew and secretly became a mobile command ship for Section 31 for nearly a decade, then refitted as an evacuation/ hospital ship.
More !!!!!
how to know if a ship is a warship:
is it's lighting dim?
I have to admit, I sort of knew we were in for a bad time when S31 was so openly prominent in Disco S2. To me, that felt like they didn't understand what made them interesting to begin with. Plus the rogue computer had been done before.
I should slap myself. I never knew until a few years ago that Alexander Sidig is Malcolm McDowells nephew. Thank you IMDB.
+Trek Central the Two large drones can be seen inside the intersecting Warp babbles during the attack one of them hits the Enterprise on the edge of the picture.
Though two are shown there is actually more than two installed as well as the smaller versions on the saucer.
& yes it does have a lot of bays they are for fighter craft one side of the bridge facing up is for ship operations and control and the one facing down is for fleet logistics and control and management of the shuttles and fighter bays.
& while the ship is configured "pre-war" to operate in automated role, in a post war role it would have a larger crew (mostly housed in the saucer) and a lot of those would be pilots of the fighters.
Since the cargo deck doesn't have the normal door designs much of the unloading and unloading would be done to the saucer section bays.
Oh and she has a special anti-sensor coating on her making her hard to see and hard to get a target lock on too.
It wasn't Adm Robocop! It was Adm Buckaroo Banzai!
OH GOD HOW DID I FORGET BUCKAROO BANZAI
@@xedanis101 By staying OUT of trouble! ;op
wasn't a section 31 spin off series in the production ? with philippa georgiou joining them ?
Yes, what's the latest news about that?
@@mariakelly1059 well it says its still in production
Can you cover the time fleet of star trek
I only have one issue with section 31 ship designs - they shouldn't have their own ship designs with the caveat that they need to be this shape for anti-sensor sheganery (similar to the b-2 irl)
This is an organisation that is trying to give appearance of not existing, the best way to do that is to just use ships that to outside viewers is just another ship. Ok so they dont have man power needed to man a constitution class but what about a miranda or oberth? Same argument goes for the Black Badges earlier on.
When sloan pops up in to check on bashire he is either on a cloaked ship outside DS9 which i think is what happened or he beemed using the transwarp transportation. You know they HAVE to have secret cloaked ships.
Love this content!
Congratulations, Lieutenant! Here's to ,any more decades of distinguished service!
Speaking personally, I always thought it completely redundant that Section 31 even needed any capital sized ships. Their whole shtick was being able to impersonate or infiltrate as needed to become part of any crew that their assignments required. That's what made their mystique so unnerving! Yet another way that the Abrams-verse/Discovery Era producers and writers have failed to understand subtlety.
And it's ironic that their ships were so much powerfull and more advanced that any other Starship vessel.
@@anndrei86 "IRONIC"...Yeah, sure. That SO MANY "less than talented writers" conjured up ALL OF THESE "UBERSHIPS" just to "DWARF ANYTHING in cannon" that "OLD Star Trek" had, so that the "NEW STAR TREK" can have the "BIGGEST and the BADDEST of ALL OF THE Starfleets."
A Lot of "Irony" there, right?
@@anndrei86 I just think that it is immature thinking that assumes that "Bigger = Better."
A small submarine could sink a battleship under the right circumstance.
Maybe these "writers" should read up on World History....neh?
Imagine if a ship was just cruising along, exploring space and charting maps, but then they find out that there are actually section 31 personnel on board using the ship as a sleeper ship of sorts, conducting a top secret mission once they arrived at the destination and awoken from their cryosleep, could be interesting.
in bridge commander there is something called a valiant class, its a defiant style vessel in the 25th century which was also used by section 31. You can search it up its a beautiful ship and should have been implemented in star trek canon
Cool video 👍
Had dominion war went on longer Starfleet ships fleet wide would receive captain s rank only specs for a phasing cloak .and other highly questionable weapons which can 1 shot destroy any ship . mysteriously( found) by Starfleet intelligence on unknown ship .
This technology instantly changes course of war to the point have dominion running back to the mouth of wormhole for fear of a ship appearing over founder home world de phasing cloaking and transporting a warp core to surface to destroy founders .
Unfortunate with this plan Starfleet become s closer to the mirror universe empire .
Congratulations
Crappy sunglasses?! I own those glasses...
Dammit, now I'm going to get demoted again
I like your completely ambiguous accent... Subbed
I have decided it's Irish or an extremely well spoken Newfoundland
10:28 - Easy. He was partly responsible for the very security systems, in use and thus, could easily circumvent them. This is made up in my head.
Great video great Star Trek
What a fantastic video! More please…
More to come!
Section 31, Obsedin (sp) Order, Talshire (sp) ….like CIA with it’s own Navy…I guess they never delve into who builds their ships in secret.
Star Trek does have nanites, Wesley Crusher was experimenting with them. Anyway why not have them embedded into the ship for repair and support. In a way it would make the ships similar to Borg cubes except in size. (Imagine the shock in enemies when they see it repair itself and destroy them with proper choiced weapons.) (In a way it resembles knights riding their war horses.) For extreme adaptation such a ship would have superior battle abilities. And when there is sufficient power source and a few extra material resources, with replicator tech, the ship can remain self sufficient for a long period.
The Kelvin/JJ timeline makes my stomach hurt.
I always thought it was brutal that they repromoted disgraced, ever-troublesome Tom Paris instead of promoting Harry Kim or anyone else on the crew.
Whats funny is that if discovery was in the main timeline how come we didn't hear anything about the incidents that took place in any other series? I could understand if they based discovery on a story or few historical facts told of seen in tos,tng,voy, or ds9. But nothing. So it still leaves people wondering if it's also a different timeline since all the aliens are different than any in the main series's aliens. Just sayin.
I have always subscribed to there being 4 base universes the shows are set in. Most are in the prime universe (TOS,TNG, DS9, ect). Then there is the mirror universe (no need to explain that one). Third there is what I call the Abramsuniverse which covers the 3 re-boot movies, and then lastly Discoveryverse which of course covers the events in Discovery. Splitting it up into those 4 universes, makes everything make sense without any one show messing with another.
actually they cover that at the end of Discovery S2, in the event Control or the time traveling virus that turned Control rampant was still out there looking for the sphere data, All but the most basic record of Discovery after acquiring the data was essentially purged from Starfleet record, with Discovery listed as lost with all hands, the few who knew otherwise, Pike, Spock and other Enterprise crew, were subsequently ordered to never divulge the information to anyone, as doing so would be considered treason.
They did actually base events in Discovery off stuff discused in other episodes. The Klingon War in season 1 was talked about in TOS for example.
In Roddenberry's star trek there's little use of small craft due to the issue of power generation efficiency and output capabilities. Yes you could make a mini warp core but you would make compromises in cooling, peak vs sustainable power output, overload resistance, and efficiency. The simple issue is a ship that can only fit a warp core the size of a oxygen tank for diving would be slow and rendered target practice that shields would not be enough to stop the bleed threw from still one shot from a actual ship not shuttle that could fit a warp core the size of a 55 gallon drum that could reach warp 5 for more than a minute without a one time boost or booster of some kind. The same goes for a ship that can fit a warp core the size of 5 55 gallon drums vs one as at that point a ship can have a engineering station a tactical station and science station and can have additional dedicated warp core cooling to reach warp 7 for a minute as well as able to keep warp 5 over an hour thats 60X as long suddenly have the ability to vaporize shuttle size ships repetitively like shown when the Borg don't even blink an eye advancing on earth to sol system standard defense forces. Mainly the issue is ships big enough to have a high warp capable warp core and additional hardware around it that can continue to make new warp plasma can be armed with a warp accelerated computer core as well and make clay target practice with semi-auto drum fed shotgun of ships that dont at sublight speeds with warp cores that don't need to be really bigger than 10 55 gallon drums in size like Voyager. There is much debate just how much ship system management gains are made from the organic processing packs on the intrepid class vs having another system on a ship that a formidable advanced enemy like the Borg to exploit. My info is mostly 2370s in star trek.
Promoted, demoted and promoted Tom Paris....
*looks at Ensign Harry Kim*
i would have thought someone would have created a super stealth ship made of dark matter in star trek
Section 31 had a Defiant class ship in Lower Decks
Hey, guys. Can a Dreadnaught Class ship destroy Borg Cubes?
I knew it. Section 31, the secret, not so secret part of starfleet. Not exactly a secret fleet when everyone knows it exist.
Could have used the technologies of the vengeance in the creation of the new enterprise in the kelvin timeline atleast
I got to thinking Section 31 was introduced in DS9. It was in Enterprise and Discovery. It was not in Voyager. I was wondering if they were to have an undercover agent on board, how could that have played out?