Michel, I think gear shaping is a superb way to make your own gears. Yours was a great demonstration of gear making. I admire how you get the close up camera shots to show the details of what is going on. Cheers!
Very nice explanation of using the two methods to cut gears on a shaper. The advantage of the Wire Method is that ANY gear can be cut but a method of dividing must be built, i.e. sheet metal pattern or any gear with the proper number of teeth, etc., and a cable pulley of the pitch circle diameter (less 1/2 the wire diameter) must be turned. The Rack Method is essentially a gear copying method so a gear pattern of the same gear you want to cut along with a rack for that pitch must be obtained for each different module or DP cut. The Wire Method is more versatile the rack method is limited but faster to set up and with less effort. Great video, thanks!
Thank you Michel for an absolutely fascinating insight into making gears on a shaper. Very inventive. I really appreciate you taking the time to show the two processes. 👏👏👍😀
Excellent example of using what you have to get something done. Willingness, imagination and using the available information to your advantage. Well done Michel.
@@trollforge… could it perhaps be done with a fly cutter on a milking machine in place of the shaper cutter with the same geometry? As long as the same relative motion happens between the rotation of the gear blank and the translation of the table, I think it should work. What do you think?
@@engineerscott2076 You do realize that a milking machine is just 2 fairly low pressure piston type vacuum pumps set 180 ° apart? Though a pneumatic gear cutter would be an interesting bit of kit... if you could make it work. Make sure to put up a video if you do.
Brilliant method for cutting a true involute gear. Other methods are just aproximations to the shape, but this gives you a perfect involute shape tooth flank.
G'day rusti,, this was so good to watch and learn from. i have never seen this method before but it works a treat!! your commentary was excellent!👍👍👍👍👍👍
Michel, you have made a wonderfull system for cutting gears on the shaper and explaines how it works. It is ofcourse a pleasure to watch, thanks a lot, Brilliant!
Great video Michel, that is a technique I have never heard of until you exposed it. Lots of fun, and very nice when you can make something you need. I never understood the pressure angle until you showed it on a rack. That rack is a nice replacement for the wire. Enjoyed very much, take care.
G'day Rusty. This would be one of the best Instructional Gear making videos on a Shaper. Looking at all the High Quality Jigs you have made, so that you can produce your own custom gear tooth selection is a massive feat of its own, let alone cut the gear that you require. Well done. Thanks
for your information, disc saws use by hand tools, such as dermel tool makes good teeth template. the only drawback is, they come in different size. you may have to modify the stopper to fit that. different brand have different teeth, you may even got some odd number of teeth if you are lucky. worth a look.
That is brilliant , thank you for answering the question I was afraid to ask. I’d never seen or heard about that method . I wonder does a gear hobbing machine work in a similar fashion ?. Thank you Michel , another very interesting video.
Michel, one thing I would like you to explain is how you determined what the module is of your required gears. I have a 12"x19" medium Chinese lathe with a mill attachment with a set of cast iron gears, ranging from 21 to 70 teeth. The largest gear is around 70 mm in diameter. I've no idea whatsoever in determining the module. How would you go about it? I certainly wouldn't trust the wire method unless you were able to get that really tight. I think you would need to use a long threaded rod and nuts to spread those bars and thus tighten the wire. Also I think I'd try to wrap the wire three times round the mandrel to ensure the wire grips it really well. But the rack idea is much more accurate to my mind. Thank you for taking the time to explain your set up. Cheers from England
Thanks for this, covers the necessary information to do it yourself. It would be pretty easy to get a gear template plasma or water jet cut to then go and cut the actual gear you want and there is nothing preventing cutting several of the same gear in a stack on the arbor, only the available stroke of the shaper.
@@Rustinox No, thank you Michel - I've been on the lookout for a 7DP 20PA cutter to cut two 14T pinion shafts. Haven't been able to find one, now I am going to cut them on the shaper (after I drag it out from the deep corner of the shed!)
What a great explanation. Thanks for this! Usually I cut gears on my old Atlas Milling machine, so this will be a nice learning experience. I'm curious if I grind the cutting tool to 20 degrees on each side for a PA of 20? Or for gears that require a PA of 14.5, cut those tools to 14.5 degrees on each side...etc. Thanks again for the great explanation.
That's correct. Note that the diameter of the 'base circle' (BCD) used to generate the gear profile depends on the pressure angle (as well as number of teeth and module, or DP - diametral pitch - of the tooth size. Formulae for both can be found online.
Done some gear cutting on mill .. what a right bollox up... now I understand my mistake.. was with not using the correct module lol.. client instructions was incorrect . Was cutting 17 tooth mod 1.5 when it should of been 2.0 ....😂😅 Make your own measurements, make your own choices.. and never listen to clients...!! Next week get the correct cutter and I will continue. Until then.. Happy machining... Very interesting video... buy a dividing head... got to be easier no ...?.
And of course, due to the way these gears are cut, they are exactly the correct involute shape, unlike a normal involute cutter milled gear, which is only exact for the lowest number of teeth in the specified range. You present this in a very approachable way, which I suspect hides a bit more understanding of what you're doing than you're saying, so you don't put viewers off. Overall, 👍
Excellent video, Michel. Understanding the use of the rack cutter to cut the gear really shows what the "involute" form really is. With the wire method, I am surprised that you get enough holding power to overcome the tendency of the blank to try and rotate away from the cutting forces. I assume it works well enough, though, and it's super ingenious. Is it "standard practice" for shapers? Yeah, I'm too lazy to go read the old literature.
This is the most comprehensive guide I've seen on this method of gear making with a shaper. Absolutely fantastic!! Thanks very much
I agree. This is great
Thanks.
That's ingenious Rustinox......Tony
Thanks Tony.
Michel, I think gear shaping is a superb way to make your own gears. Yours was a great demonstration of gear making. I admire how you get the close up camera shots to show the details of what is going on. Cheers!
Thanks Allen.
Thanks for showing your set up in detail. Very cool.
And it works!
Ingenuity is the mother of invention, nice work Mr Rustinox 👍👴🏻
Thanks, but I didn't invent it. I just refresh :)
For old technology, shapers are such a versatile piece of machinery, very well explained Rusty 👍
On a shaper you can make whatever you want. Just do it.
Except for the fact I don't have one
A pleasure to watch your video, Michel. Excellent explanation as usual. Need to find a small shaper now.
Go for it. Shapers are fun.
Nice tutorial on gear cutting in the shaper Michel. I'll store that away, for when I get a shaper!
Thanks Preso. I hope you'll find a shaper soon.
Great explanation and examples Michel. Thank you.
Thanks.
well explained Michel
one day i will try it on my mini "Adept No2" shaper
thanks for sharing👍👍👍👍
kev
Of course. Go for it.
Excelente tutorial about gear manufacturing using the Shaper!
Thanks.
Excellent video Michel. I do like the second method best, using the gear rack to control the cuts. So well thought out. Cheers Nobby
Thanks Nobby.
Very nice explanation of using the two methods to cut gears on a shaper. The advantage of the Wire Method is that ANY gear can be cut but a method of dividing must be built, i.e. sheet metal pattern or any gear with the proper number of teeth, etc., and a cable pulley of the pitch circle diameter (less 1/2 the wire diameter) must be turned. The Rack Method is essentially a gear copying method so a gear pattern of the same gear you want to cut along with a rack for that pitch must be obtained for each different module or DP cut.
The Wire Method is more versatile the rack method is limited but faster to set up and with less effort.
Great video, thanks!
Yep, you 've got it all right.
Thank you Michel for an absolutely fascinating insight into making gears on a shaper. Very inventive. I really appreciate you taking the time to show the two processes. 👏👏👍😀
Thanks Andrew. It's with great pleasure.
You are an absolute genius, and a natural teacher Thank you.
I'm not more or less smart than anybody else, Steve.
@@Rustinoxno your not but you do have the ability to think out of the box and see things from a different perspective.
I have seen wooden templates gears on a channel years ago. I like the 3D printed idea for templates.
They would work just fine.
Excellent example of using what you have to get something done. Willingness, imagination and using the available information to your advantage. Well done Michel.
Thanks. And all this with a big smile :)
I remember when you first explained to me how this process works, and I still think it's very fascinating how the whole process works.
And it's fun to do :)
An incredible way to plane gears, if you haven't seen it with your own eyes you wouldn't believe it. A wonderfully innovative way, Michel
From the days before milling machines :)
You are very clever Michel. Good explanation. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Thanks Harold.
NEW GEARS! Make some for my brain, Michel!
No problem, but the gears I make start rusting after a while... :)
This is a whole new subject in gear cutting to me, Michel!
Nice. Give it a go.
@@Rustinox Might be a wee bit difficult without a shaper... ;)
@@trollforge… could it perhaps be done with a fly cutter on a milking machine in place of the shaper cutter with the same geometry? As long as the same relative motion happens between the rotation of the gear blank and the translation of the table, I think it should work. What do you think?
@@engineerscott2076 You do realize that a milking machine is just 2 fairly low pressure piston type vacuum pumps set 180 ° apart? Though a pneumatic gear cutter would be an interesting bit of kit... if you could make it work. Make sure to put up a video if you do.
Excellent explanation on gear cutting in a shaper, Thank you!
Thanks.
Brilliant method for cutting a true involute gear. Other methods are just aproximations to the shape, but this gives you a perfect involute shape tooth flank.
Indeed, and it works well.
Brilliant job mate
Thanks Matty.
Thanks, Rusti! That was a nice, clear explanation. Love this stuff. 👍
Thanks Dudley.
Thanks Rusti,
It was good to see, how it works, and always a pleasure to see your videos. I hope one day I can do the same on my shaper. 👍👍👏👏👏
Of course you can. Go for it.
G'day rusti,, this was so good to watch and learn from. i have never seen this method before but it works a treat!! your commentary was excellent!👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks.
You always continue to astound me how you think these things out Good onya
Thanks. And it's fun to do.
Absolut great. The explanations, the vid and the result.
Congrats, Michele
Thanks.
Michel, you have made a wonderfull system for cutting gears on the shaper and explaines how it works. It is ofcourse a pleasure to watch, thanks a lot, Brilliant!
Thank you very much.
Wow very interesting out of the box thinking 👍 and pleasing method for gear making.
Thanks Rusty, for the detailed overview....
Cheers....ATB....
Thanks. Now it's your turn :)
Great video thanks for sharing
Thanks. My pleasure.
Great video Michel, that is a technique I have never heard of until you exposed it. Lots of fun, and very nice when you can make something you need. I never understood the pressure angle until you showed it on a rack. That rack is a nice replacement for the wire. Enjoyed very much, take care.
Thanks Howie. It works well and it's fun to do.
well done theres always a way to get it done
Thanks.
Very cool way to do that. It's the first time I see it done like that. Figures you would come up with a unique way to do that. Nice Michel.
Thanks Randy.
Super video. Goes back to basics of involute generation neatly done.
Thanks.
Hi Michel, great explanation and really well presented video, well done!!
Have a great weekend!!
Thanks David.
I really do like the way you go about things but you’re making me want to buy a shaper to go with my mill and lathe. 👍
Go for it. Shapers are fun.
@@Rustinoxwhat make and model is your shaper? Cheers, Dave
@@dge955 AI Hembrug, made in the Netherlands.
@@Rustinoxthank you
Thank You for this, Sir.
My pleasure.
That's a cool setup.
I think so too.
Clever setups, if you have a shaper! Thanks!
Indeed, without a shaper it will be a bit more complicated :)
G'day Rusty. This would be one of the best Instructional Gear making videos on a Shaper. Looking at all the High Quality Jigs you have made, so that you can produce your own custom gear tooth selection is a massive feat of its own, let alone cut the gear that you require. Well done. Thanks
And all this for no money :)
Well done mate 👍
Thanks.
A great vid, very interesting and informative.
Thanks.
Brilliant stuff! Amazing how it works.
Thanks. It really is.
for your information, disc saws use by hand tools, such as dermel tool makes good teeth template. the only drawback is, they come in different size. you may have to modify the stopper to fit that. different brand have different teeth, you may even got some odd number of teeth if you are lucky. worth a look.
That could work.
good video rustinox
Thanks.
That is brilliant , thank you for answering the question I was afraid to ask. I’d never seen or heard about that method . I wonder does a gear hobbing machine work in a similar fashion ?. Thank you Michel , another very interesting video.
Never be afraid to ask questions.
Gear hobbing uses a form tool, so this is diffrerent.
Michel, one thing I would like you to explain is how you determined what the module is of your required gears. I have a 12"x19" medium Chinese lathe with a mill attachment with a set of cast iron gears, ranging from 21 to 70 teeth. The largest gear is around 70 mm in diameter. I've no idea whatsoever in determining the module. How would you go about it? I certainly wouldn't trust the wire method unless you were able to get that really tight. I think you would need to use a long threaded rod and nuts to spread those bars and thus tighten the wire. Also I think I'd try to wrap the wire three times round the mandrel to ensure the wire grips it really well. But the rack idea is much more accurate to my mind. Thank you for taking the time to explain your set up. Cheers from England
Take a look at this website. There is a lot of useful stuff in there.
www.automotioncomponents.co.uk/en/pageid/automotion-spur-gears
Thanks for this, covers the necessary information to do it yourself.
It would be pretty easy to get a gear template plasma or water jet cut to then go and cut the actual gear you want and there is nothing preventing cutting several of the same gear in a stack on the arbor, only the available stroke of the shaper.
Indeed, that could work.
Brilliant! 👍
Thanks.
@@Rustinox No, thank you Michel - I've been on the lookout for a 7DP 20PA cutter to cut two 14T pinion shafts. Haven't been able to find one, now I am going to cut them on the shaper (after I drag it out from the deep corner of the shed!)
Thanks
:)
What a great explanation. Thanks for this! Usually I cut gears on my old Atlas Milling machine, so this will be a nice learning experience.
I'm curious if I grind the cutting tool to 20 degrees on each side for a PA of 20? Or for gears that require a PA of 14.5, cut those tools to 14.5 degrees on each side...etc. Thanks again for the great explanation.
That's correct. Note that the diameter of the 'base circle' (BCD) used to generate the gear profile depends on the pressure angle (as well as number of teeth and module, or DP - diametral pitch - of the tooth size. Formulae for both can be found online.
@@BillDavies-ej6ye Thanks for the explaination!
The cutting tool has the same shape as the teeth of a gear rack. It's a form tool.
@@Rustinox Thank you!
brilliant👍
Thanks.
I had never seen gears made on a shaper before. You done a nice job good looking gear or it would be a gear if you finished it. Thanks
Thanks.
This approach will work with printed pattern gears.
Absolutely.
I wonder if gear teef can be cut on the lathe. The age of 3D printing sure helps with templates.
Go for it. I'm sure you will come up with something.
Done some gear cutting on mill .. what a right bollox up... now I understand my mistake.. was with not using the correct module lol.. client instructions was incorrect . Was cutting 17 tooth mod 1.5 when it should of been 2.0 ....😂😅
Make your own measurements, make your own choices.. and never listen to clients...!!
Next week get the correct cutter and I will continue.
Until then.. Happy machining...
Very interesting video... buy a dividing head... got to be easier no ...?.
My dividing head doesn't fit on my shaper...
Nice work mr Rustinox.
How are you these days? Hope you are more healthy.
If I take my time to do things, I'm OK. Thanks.
@@Rustinox It’s good to hear. Look after yourself. We subscriber’s of you care for your health.
Thanks for the interesting explanation!! One general question, is it necessary to harden the gears before installing them?
It depends what they are used for. In a mini lathe the gears are plastic, so...
Bro need to get a patent in that . Someone here in the states will copy your ideal and get a patent .
It's not my idea. That's how they did it before milling machines were a thing. I just refresh the page.
Wow never heard of it done that way . I been a machinist for 43 years in 5 different shop .
And of course, due to the way these gears are cut, they are exactly the correct involute shape, unlike a normal involute cutter milled gear, which is only exact for the lowest number of teeth in the specified range.
You present this in a very approachable way, which I suspect hides a bit more understanding of what you're doing than you're saying, so you don't put viewers off.
Overall, 👍
Thanks Robert. I passed some details in this video, but I didn't hide anything.
Excellent video, Michel. Understanding the use of the rack cutter to cut the gear really shows what the "involute" form really is.
With the wire method, I am surprised that you get enough holding power to overcome the tendency of the blank to try and rotate away from the cutting forces. I assume it works well enough, though, and it's super ingenious. Is it "standard practice" for shapers? Yeah, I'm too lazy to go read the old literature.
There is indeed some load on the wire, but it's not very much.