Milwaukee's Super domes were not the only full length domes built new in the US. Budd built Big Domes for the Santa Fe and Great Domes for Great Northern's Empire Builder (one car was owned by the Burlington). The cars were quite similar, the difference being that Santa Fe's had unpainted fluted stainless steel while the Builder cars were painted in Great Northern's green & orange, later Big Sky blue. The Santa Fe cars ran on the San Francisco Chief and for a couple years the El Capitan before the Hi Level cars arrived, when they were transferred to the Chief. After the Chief was discontinued, they briefly ran an the Texas Chief. I believe they also ran on the Kansas City Chief.
I rode the original (pre-Amtrak ownership) Auto-Train in 1972 from Lorton, VA to Sanford, FL. The upper level coach seat I had was in a former Santa Fe full length dome car. It still had Santa Fe livery on the interior walls and signage. The seats and exterior paint were in that ugly purple, red and white scheme of the privately owned Auto-Train. I remember being surprised because I didn't think Santa Fe had had any full length domes! That was a fun trip! BTW. The movie they showed in the lounge car was "Brian's Song". Yeah. Long time ago.
I remember reading that auditors for the ICC found that expenses for the Pacific Extension were doubled but never heard an explanation for this such as sabotage, poor management, or something else.
Now, of course, rumor has it that another train will begin Amtrak service from St. Paul to the Toddlin" Town (Chicago) in 2024 on the former CMStP & P. I first read about this in the St. Paul Pioneer Press in 1985. Thirty-nine years later it may happen. What is interesting is the Milwaukee depot in Mpls. is part a historic and in part an ice-skating rink attraction. The Great Northern Depot off Hennepin Avenue was demolished to make way for a new HQ for the Ninth Federal Reserve District. There is apparently no connecting point in Minneapolis to start the train there before arrival at Union Depot St. Paul and on to Chicago.
Thanks, as I fully agree with you in every respect. The Train Hopper constantly receives negative remarks from me, given that he knows little, if anything, about what he is discussing. If only someone else would take up commentating on the trains and railroads/railways he mentions.
thanks, Train Hopper, for another great and well researched video. The Milwaukee Road and Rock Island demises were sad. That area of the country could not really support three transcontinentals, being the Olympian Hiawatha, Empire Builder, and North Coast Limited. From what I've read, the Olympian Hiawatha was probably the lesser of the three. Your speed of delivery is fine. Do consider a program on the evil Anderson and the damage he has done to Amtrak.
I could do a thing on Anderson....I already tore Amtrak’s shitty 2035 map a new one, might as well critique their leaders. As for delivery, I’m considering making shorter videos on other topics to fill some of the weeks in between the main videos. I already have videos scheduled to September.
the Rock was making it. The dumb clerks went on strike over back pay. rock island was moving 80% of its traffic with 60% less workers. Carter step in with a back to work order and killed the company. The Dumb stupid Fed Gov has killed a Lot of rail roads. over 70% of the Ex rock is in use today
Had anyone foreseen the eventual arrival of overwhelming volumes of contraband and cheap goods from East Asia from the '80s forward, the Miles City to Seattle portion may have become profitable if available. BNSF has had trouble meeting shipper needs. This extra transcon line through the Northwest may have relieved pressure on BNSF freight traffic.
To say that I really enjoy your videos is a huge understatement. They are absolutely amazing works of scholarship. Selfishly, I do wish that you would consider slowing down your delivery. I listen to these videos at almost half speed and frequently reverse and replay the videos multiple times in order to be sure that I properly hear all of the information that you have thoughtfully provided to the listeners. And slowing down would give you an opportunity to focus on enunciation a bit more. Considering the tremendous time and energy you put into researching, writing and producing these fabulous videos you do yourself a disservice by rushing through the material. I never feel as though there is unnecessary trivia or detail and it deserves to be heard by as many people as possible. I hope that you will consider writing a railroad history book as I would most certainly buy a copy for myself and copies for several of my friends. Thank you so much for these wonderful presentations. Keep up the great work!
There are awesome books out there that cover how the electricle parts of the Milwaukee road's electrified lines worked. "The Milwaukee Road Electrified", is a good book. You can still find copies on eBay. But here is a sweet piece of info for train fans. The Canadian Pacific currently owns the rights to the old Milwaukee Road. So if the CP ever wanted to bring back the Milw they actually could. A few years ago it was being talked about but nothing ever came of it. Cost was the issue I believe.
I wonder if the Milwaukee road wanted to merge with the union pacific since the Milwaukee road repainted its train , mostly passenger trains, in union pacific colors during the late 1950s and through out the 1960s.
I once got in argument in another comment section about how the pacific extension failed because of steep grades and the fact that it ran into Seattle. This person suggested it should’ve been built into eureka CA of all places
Running to Eureka from the north wouldn’t have been a the stupidest idea, but the SP had already called dibs and never did anything about it. And this was beyond the NWP being a poorly built railways. The Pacific Extension was probably the least stupid of all the Milwaukee Road’s stupid decisions. I’m currently doing a deeper dive into their and the Rock Island’s failure and the Pacific Extension was the least of their worries.
@@thetrainhopper8992 the SP didn't have dibs on Eureka. GN was seriously considering it and then the two worked out an arrangement. If GN had built across the Trinity's or bypassed by either using the Klamath River or going down through the Yolla Bolly's the line would probably still be in use to this day. But ATSF and SP had their own war going on. SP did plan using the Sherwood branch as the original main from Willits to Eureka but opted against that, so as we know it was the weakest portion of the NWP.
The difference between an AC electric system and a DC electric system is literally the number of wires need to complete the power circuit a DC system needs 2 wires where an AC system can be done with just 1. And that's pretty much it. DC systems would always have an even amount of wires and a AC system can actually have as many as they wanted. DC would have been easier on the motors but AC would have been easier to set up and run from the get go. Why did AC win? well easy setup means cheaper to build and cheaper to build means we can have more of it faster.
AC also needs a return conductor so you still need to use the rail return and the trolley line. Higher AC voltages need more clearance so the interurban style poles would have to be steel with more room. Hydro power for the MILW was 50 Cycle commercial power and the GG1’s 25 cycle for their drilling machine motors. Technology available then was high powered motors were DC. The design of MR was excellent, who today would install a 115kV sub feeder system on wooden poles hundred of miles long?I suppose at least the fault level at the end of the line would be pretty low.Electrification schemes only pay for themselves on hi density routes. L. Wylie’s report in 1956 on the electrics sums it up well. The MR should of trusted his judgement.
Do you think we'll ever see the day when Amtrak builds dome cars? I love riding out west, and first did so on original streamliner equipment, which included Santa Fe, Burlington and NP domes. The Superliner Lounges pale in comparison, but, we have play with the cards we are dealt, right? Keep up the good work!
One thought that I have about Amtrak is having an actual lounge on its long distance trains. So two Sightseer Lounges, one with a bar and the standard one. Amtrak’s leadership never really seemed to understand what running a passenger train is like and how to make money. I’ve worked in food service and I know that alcohol sales make the best markup, the fact that Amtrak never tried to roll out an old style lounge nationwide is beyond stupid. I know the Pacific Parlor cars existed, but Amtrak needs to improve on that.
@@thetrainhopper8992 aww, the sad demise of the Pacific Parlour cars---what gems they were---thanks Anderson for that. Yes, proper lounge service could help with the bottom line. Just think if dining cars raised the level by emphasizing cocktails before dinner, fine wine selection during the meals, real china, and lower priced entrees. I think this would help the bottom line in the dining car and provide a much better rail experience. Now, we have "flexible" dining, and only for sleeper passengers-----flexible dining hardly makes sleeper 1st class. Flexible dining another Anderson idea to make Amtrak like the horrible experience that flying has become?
@@thetrainhopper8992 I agree. My understanding is that the equipment just doesn't exist to protect the schedules. Once, ONCE, I was on the "Builder" westbound, 1986, and the upstairs bar area was staffed and selling bevvies and chips and such. The sandwiches, etc., were only available downstairs, but it was convenient for the passengers to purchase without descending/climbing stairs (especially for some with mobility issues). As for the extraordinary markup! Sheesh! What it is, $8 for a shot of middle shelf restorative beverages? The stocking costs can't be that much and the labor is already costed out over the entire car/service. I remember drink specials on the "Zephyr" east out of Denver (margaritas) and tequila somethings on the "Chief" second day out. I promoted not only liquor sales, but got some passengers to mingle and make new friends, which is a big part of the fun of rail travel that Amtrak seems to bury in its marketing. We're not like airline passengers who are already pissed off because someone is sitting next to us. We rail passengers actually LIKE other humans to some extent or another. Cheers and looking forward to the NP edition.
From what I’ve seen of the Flexible Menu, it’s actually worse than airline food. Getting rid of it is the best thing they could do. Even offering cold bento boxes on longer trains like the Carolinian would taste better than the lean cuisine they serve on the Flex menu.
@@thetrainhopper8992 Last time I rode the San Joaquin, the lunch pasta was above decent. Gate Gourmet, I think? At least on the overnights to the west I could choose between the fish and the vegetarian (I don't eat meat except fish). Now, I dinner sized garden salad with bit of tuna or salmon would do well for many passengers I'd guess. Eating a heavy dinner and then going to sleep and not at least walking off some calories can lead to a less than restful sleep for many. I tend to load up at breakfast and work my way lighter on the Chief and CZ and Builder and Starlight.
They need too bring back the Milwaukee Road routes.. They are shorter then the routes now... Better seen.. !!!! Don't change them into rails to trails...!!! Milwaukee Had the Best route into the Pacific Northwest !! Shorter times and better service !!
I always thought that the former Great Northern and the current BNSF Northern Transcon line was the fastest of three transcon route between Chicago and the PNW
I'm sure there are other reasons, but the most often cited reason for them considering electrication was the winter weather in mountains making steam operations difficult.
@@IndustrialParrot2816 the cold sapped the thermal efficency of the steam locos thus resulting in more fuel burned for less work. Trains were instructed to reduce tonnage by x amount per y number of degrees below zero before the electrification. The electrics suffered no reduction and even worked better as it got colder by reducing resistance in the motors thus allowing full power to be availabe. Read the Milwaukee Electrics by Noel Holley for more on the electrics.
@@IndustrialParrot2816 Such claim has no support. The Pacific extension is a prime example of a "state or the art" engineering example of location, design, construction excellence, with the glaring example of business and financial underpinnings being woefully inadequate.
That was one of the things that enabled their survival, I’m doing a deep dive on the granger railroads at the moment and something will be out on them by the fall. It’s an incredibly complex topic.
they did not have the switch gear and rectification ability 100 years ago so they went DC. DC was a better understood system back then but they incurred losses over transmission. AC only came in in the 60s and 70s.
One Little Joe survives at Deer Lodge Mt. One set of boxcabs in Duluth Mn. One boxcab in Harlowton Mt as well as the Deer Lodge shop loco(electric via a cable run from the roundhouse). One Bipolar in St. Louis Mo. All that remains of the Milwaukee fleet of electric locos. Not saved are the Baldwin-Westinghouse locos and the steeplecab switchers.
Dude! Do your research; you're rambling, I understand that you're trying to include lots of information. But, try giving the highlights of the history?
B.N.S.F got the Tracks of the Milwaukee line.. Instead of using it.. They tore it up back in 1980... !!!! B.N.S.F had a clear shot to Everywhere !! Shorter rail service to the East and West.!!! The Beaverlly Bridge is the Best they Had !! It' s the. Only point between Washington and Anywhere You can Crosse in the State of Washington !
MILW Pacific Extension was the worst decision made by the railroad. Contrary to your comment, they had the worst alignment to the Pacific Coast which passed through the most barren parts of the route that produced nearly no on line traffic. I have a chart of GN,NP and MILW alignments to the PNW and MILW had the worst alignment of the three. I worked for a MILW competitor in marketing when MILW was operating in late 70's and early 80's. All the MILW did was to drag freight rates down to a point where no one made any money. Glad to see them go from that point of view but sad since I had friends working at MILW.
Specifically the comment was about them having the best engineered route circa 1912. Which was true, the issue was it stayed that way until it was abandoned which is a point that will be coming up in my video that comes out on the 15th.
@@thetrainhopper8992 I don't see how that is possible. NP and GN completed routes before on better alignments. MILW never had the best engineered route in 1912, or before, or since. I worked for BN when MILW was in operating the Extension. Whatever.
Absolutely incorrect, but there are a few that spread these false narratives on various websites. I am never sure if it is just trolling, or intended to hurt the people who really valiantly tried to keep the Milwaukee going before it was sabotaged by poor management.
You can stop commenting about the audio. It was an editing mistake that was long since fixed.
Wow, the audio (idk I didn't hear anything wrong)
Milwaukee's Super domes were not the only full length domes built new in the US. Budd built Big Domes for the Santa Fe and Great Domes for Great Northern's Empire Builder (one car was owned by the Burlington). The cars were quite similar, the difference being that Santa Fe's had unpainted fluted stainless steel while the Builder cars were painted in Great Northern's green & orange, later Big Sky blue. The Santa Fe cars ran on the San Francisco Chief and for a couple years the El Capitan before the Hi Level cars arrived, when they were transferred to the Chief. After the Chief was discontinued, they briefly ran an the Texas Chief. I believe they also ran on the Kansas City Chief.
I rode the original (pre-Amtrak ownership) Auto-Train in 1972 from Lorton, VA to Sanford, FL. The upper level coach seat I had was in a former Santa Fe full length dome car. It still had Santa Fe livery on the interior walls and signage. The seats and exterior paint were in that ugly purple, red and white scheme of the privately owned Auto-Train. I remember being surprised because I didn't think Santa Fe had had any full length domes! That was a fun trip! BTW. The movie they showed in the lounge car was "Brian's Song". Yeah. Long time ago.
I remember reading that auditors for the ICC found that expenses for the Pacific Extension were doubled but never heard an explanation for this such as sabotage, poor management, or something else.
A good book about the demise of the Milwaukee Road is The Nation Pays Again by Thomas Ploss.
Great presentation. I live in Red Wing, MN. The twins Cities Hiawatha!
Very interesting but I would slow down narrative for better understanding!
Now, of course, rumor has it that another train will begin Amtrak service from St. Paul to the Toddlin" Town (Chicago) in 2024 on the former CMStP & P. I first read about this in the St. Paul Pioneer Press in 1985. Thirty-nine years later it may happen. What is interesting is the Milwaukee depot in Mpls. is part a historic and in part an ice-skating rink attraction. The Great Northern Depot off Hennepin Avenue was demolished to make way for a new HQ for the Ninth Federal Reserve District. There is apparently no connecting point in Minneapolis to start the train there before arrival at Union Depot St. Paul and on to Chicago.
Caught trains out of Union Station (15:30) before Amtrak. Great video.
Listening to get any packets of information from this video is like reading a novel without any periods, commas, or capital letters.
Thanks, as I fully agree with you in every respect. The Train Hopper constantly receives negative remarks from me, given that he knows little, if anything, about what he is discussing. If only someone else would take up commentating on the trains and railroads/railways he mentions.
Is that guy for real, or AI? Awful
thanks for the vid - those original Hiawatha Atlantics are just gorgeous engines even if they weren't as powerful at the Hudsons that followed.
I love the Stream Liners trains
Now, increased service to the Pacific Northwest could do very well. Back then, the population was small by comparison.
its big now look at my city Seattle its one of the fastest growing in USA
thanks, Train Hopper, for another great and well researched video. The Milwaukee Road and Rock Island demises were sad. That area of the country could not really support three transcontinentals, being the Olympian Hiawatha, Empire Builder, and North Coast Limited. From what I've read, the Olympian Hiawatha was probably the lesser of the three. Your speed of delivery is fine. Do consider a program on the evil Anderson and the damage he has done to Amtrak.
I could do a thing on Anderson....I already tore Amtrak’s shitty 2035 map a new one, might as well critique their leaders. As for delivery, I’m considering making shorter videos on other topics to fill some of the weeks in between the main videos. I already have videos scheduled to September.
the Rock was making it. The dumb clerks went on strike over back pay. rock island was moving 80% of its traffic with 60% less workers. Carter step in with a back to work order and killed the company. The Dumb stupid Fed Gov has killed a Lot of rail roads. over 70% of the Ex rock is in use today
@@thetrainhopper8992 I think you should speak slightly slower, but much less of a monotone.
Had anyone foreseen the eventual arrival of overwhelming volumes of contraband and cheap goods from East Asia from the '80s forward, the Miles City to Seattle portion may have become profitable if available. BNSF has had trouble meeting shipper needs. This extra transcon line through the Northwest may have relieved pressure on BNSF freight traffic.
Great ideas you have and great subject matter. Narration is rapid and mumbly, though. It'd help if you slowed down.
It was an editing issue with the older videos. Basically three seconds gaps looked huge when I edited and I would get rid of them.
@@thetrainhopper8992 I hear ya. That makes sense. I wouldn't know how to edit one, lol.
To say that I really enjoy your videos is a huge understatement. They are absolutely amazing works of scholarship. Selfishly, I do wish that you would consider slowing down your delivery. I listen to these videos at almost half speed and frequently reverse and replay the videos multiple times in order to be sure that I properly hear all of the information that you have thoughtfully provided to the listeners. And slowing down would give you an opportunity to focus on enunciation a bit more. Considering the tremendous time and energy you put into researching, writing and producing these fabulous videos you do yourself a disservice by rushing through the material. I never feel as though there is unnecessary trivia or detail and it deserves to be heard by as many people as possible. I hope that you will consider writing a railroad history book as I would most certainly buy a copy for myself and copies for several of my friends. Thank you so much for these wonderful presentations. Keep up the great work!
There are awesome books out there that cover how the electricle parts of the Milwaukee road's electrified lines worked. "The Milwaukee Road Electrified", is a good book. You can still find copies on eBay. But here is a sweet piece of info for train fans. The Canadian Pacific currently owns the rights to the old Milwaukee Road. So if the CP ever wanted to bring back the Milw they actually could. A few years ago it was being talked about but nothing ever came of it. Cost was the issue I believe.
I wonder if the Milwaukee road wanted to merge with the union pacific since the Milwaukee road repainted its train , mostly passenger trains, in union pacific colors during the late 1950s and through out the 1960s.
Yes they courted the UP but they didn't bite because they knew Milw was going to drain their profits.
I once got in argument in another comment section about how the pacific extension failed because of steep grades and the fact that it ran into Seattle. This person suggested it should’ve been built into eureka CA of all places
Running to Eureka from the north wouldn’t have been a the stupidest idea, but the SP had already called dibs and never did anything about it. And this was beyond the NWP being a poorly built railways. The Pacific Extension was probably the least stupid of all the Milwaukee Road’s stupid decisions. I’m currently doing a deeper dive into their and the Rock Island’s failure and the Pacific Extension was the least of their worries.
@@thetrainhopper8992 the SP didn't have dibs on Eureka. GN was seriously considering it and then the two worked out an arrangement. If GN had built across the Trinity's or bypassed by either using the Klamath River or going down through the Yolla Bolly's the line would probably still be in use to this day. But ATSF and SP had their own war going on. SP did plan using the Sherwood branch as the original main from Willits to Eureka but opted against that, so as we know it was the weakest portion of the NWP.
Milwaukee's grades were the best of all lines north as it was the last built with more modern techniques.
Exactly. They had the best route just piss poor management who were not fond of the extension.
Managers don’t understand electricity. MR was well designed to last and did just that. Good GE locos and substations.
The difference between an AC electric system and a DC electric system is literally the number of wires need to complete the power circuit a DC system needs 2 wires where an AC system can be done with just 1. And that's pretty much it. DC systems would always have an even amount of wires and a AC system can actually have as many as they wanted. DC would have been easier on the motors but AC would have been easier to set up and run from the get go. Why did AC win? well easy setup means cheaper to build and cheaper to build means we can have more of it faster.
Not to mention the loss of power over distance too. Fewer substations needed and also allows a higher line voltage.
AC also needs a return conductor so you still need to use the rail return and the trolley line. Higher AC voltages need more clearance so the interurban style poles would have to be steel with more room. Hydro power for the MILW was 50 Cycle commercial power and the GG1’s 25 cycle for their drilling machine motors. Technology available then was high powered motors were DC. The design of MR was excellent, who today would install a 115kV sub feeder system on wooden poles hundred of miles long?I suppose at least the fault level at the end of the line would be pretty low.Electrification schemes only pay for themselves on hi density routes. L. Wylie’s report in 1956 on the electrics sums it up well. The MR should of trusted his judgement.
Do you think we'll ever see the day when Amtrak builds dome cars? I love riding out west, and first did so on original streamliner equipment, which included Santa Fe, Burlington and NP domes. The Superliner Lounges pale in comparison, but, we have play with the cards we are dealt, right? Keep up the good work!
One thought that I have about Amtrak is having an actual lounge on its long distance trains. So two Sightseer Lounges, one with a bar and the standard one. Amtrak’s leadership never really seemed to understand what running a passenger train is like and how to make money. I’ve worked in food service and I know that alcohol sales make the best markup, the fact that Amtrak never tried to roll out an old style lounge nationwide is beyond stupid. I know the Pacific Parlor cars existed, but Amtrak needs to improve on that.
@@thetrainhopper8992 aww, the sad demise of the Pacific Parlour cars---what gems they were---thanks Anderson for that. Yes, proper lounge service could help with the bottom line. Just think if dining cars raised the level by emphasizing cocktails before dinner, fine wine selection during the meals, real china, and lower priced entrees. I think this would help the bottom line in the dining car and provide a much better rail experience. Now, we have "flexible" dining, and only for sleeper passengers-----flexible dining hardly makes sleeper 1st class. Flexible dining another Anderson idea to make Amtrak like the horrible experience that flying has become?
@@thetrainhopper8992 I agree. My understanding is that the equipment just doesn't exist to protect the schedules. Once, ONCE, I was on the "Builder" westbound, 1986, and the upstairs bar area was staffed and selling bevvies and chips and such. The sandwiches, etc., were only available downstairs, but it was convenient for the passengers to purchase without descending/climbing stairs (especially for some with mobility issues). As for the extraordinary markup! Sheesh! What it is, $8 for a shot of middle shelf restorative beverages? The stocking costs can't be that much and the labor is already costed out over the entire car/service. I remember drink specials on the "Zephyr" east out of Denver (margaritas) and tequila somethings on the "Chief" second day out. I promoted not only liquor sales, but got some passengers to mingle and make new friends, which is a big part of the fun of rail travel that Amtrak seems to bury in its marketing. We're not like airline passengers who are already pissed off because someone is sitting next to us. We rail passengers actually LIKE other humans to some extent or another. Cheers and looking forward to the NP edition.
From what I’ve seen of the Flexible Menu, it’s actually worse than airline food. Getting rid of it is the best thing they could do. Even offering cold bento boxes on longer trains like the Carolinian would taste better than the lean cuisine they serve on the Flex menu.
@@thetrainhopper8992 Last time I rode the San Joaquin, the lunch pasta was above decent. Gate Gourmet, I think? At least on the overnights to the west I could choose between the fish and the vegetarian (I don't eat meat except fish). Now, I dinner sized garden salad with bit of tuna or salmon would do well for many passengers I'd guess. Eating a heavy dinner and then going to sleep and not at least walking off some calories can lead to a less than restful sleep for many. I tend to load up at breakfast and work my way lighter on the Chief and CZ and Builder and Starlight.
rode this wonderful train many times in the 1950s!
Do you have any pictures or video of your trips?
By the way you did pronounce Kuhler correctly.
They need too bring back the Milwaukee Road routes.. They are shorter then the routes now... Better seen.. !!!! Don't change them into rails to trails...!!! Milwaukee Had the Best route into the Pacific Northwest !! Shorter times and better service !!
I always thought that the former Great Northern and the current BNSF Northern Transcon line was the fastest of three transcon route between Chicago and the PNW
@@stephenheath8465 it was
wrong
Northern Pacific had the line directly from St. Paul to Duluth; why are you showing it as Milwaukee Road? Did they have use of it?
Yes Milwaukee had trackage rights from about 1901 if I'm remembering correctly.
You didn't discucc the beaver tails though you did have a great pic of an older style.
I never heard of a Rock/Milw merger plan. In fantasyland with a Conrail West it could be feasible but eventually suffer a same fate.
I made a video covering their demise in another video where I talk more about why it was a dumb idea.
Rock was looked into as was Grand Trunk and CNW.
Good video. I disagree that steam locomotives can't steam up in cold temperatures, and so they electrified this route. There are other reasons.
I'm sure there are other reasons, but the most often cited reason for them considering electrication was the winter weather in mountains making steam operations difficult.
i think it was gradients
@@IndustrialParrot2816 the cold sapped the thermal efficency of the steam locos thus resulting in more fuel burned for less work. Trains were instructed to reduce tonnage by x amount per y number of degrees below zero before the electrification. The electrics suffered no reduction and even worked better as it got colder by reducing resistance in the motors thus allowing full power to be availabe. Read the Milwaukee Electrics by Noel Holley for more on the electrics.
@@IndustrialParrot2816 Such claim has no support. The Pacific extension is a prime example of a "state or the art" engineering example of location, design, construction excellence, with the glaring example of business and financial underpinnings being woefully inadequate.
I'm sure the powder river bastion coal helped the CNW survive?
That was one of the things that enabled their survival, I’m doing a deep dive on the granger railroads at the moment and something will be out on them by the fall. It’s an incredibly complex topic.
force by the Fed Gov, CNW did not have the money to pay for the joint line. By Law it should have belong 100% to the BNSF
they did not have the switch gear and rectification ability 100 years ago so they went DC. DC was a better understood system back then but they incurred losses over transmission. AC only came in in the 60s and 70s.
ac was used in 1930 apx, see Prr GG1
the gas crunch was in 1973
The largest electrified Right of Way in America!
Would've been great if they could had saved a few of their electric locomotives
Two of the Little Joe’s are, after retiring from service on the South Shore.
One at Illinois Railway Museum.
One Little Joe survives at Deer Lodge Mt. One set of boxcabs in Duluth Mn. One boxcab in Harlowton Mt as well as the Deer Lodge shop loco(electric via a cable run from the roundhouse). One Bipolar in St. Louis Mo. All that remains of the Milwaukee fleet of electric locos. Not saved are the Baldwin-Westinghouse locos and the steeplecab switchers.
Dude! Do your research; you're rambling, I understand that you're trying to include lots of information. But, try giving the highlights of the history?
I'm not a highlights channel.
no jimmy carter lead to the end of the rock
B.N.S.F got the Tracks of the Milwaukee line.. Instead of using it.. They tore it up back in 1980... !!!! B.N.S.F had a clear shot to Everywhere !! Shorter rail service to the East and West.!!! The Beaverlly Bridge is the Best they Had !! It' s the. Only point between Washington and Anywhere You can Crosse in the State of Washington !
if Milwaukee so good BNSF would have kept it
MILW Pacific Extension was the worst decision made by the railroad. Contrary to your comment, they had the worst alignment to the Pacific Coast which passed through the most barren parts of the route that produced nearly no on line traffic. I have a chart of GN,NP and MILW alignments to the PNW and MILW had the worst alignment of the three. I worked for a MILW competitor in marketing when MILW was operating in late 70's and early 80's. All the MILW did was to drag freight rates down to a point where no one made any money. Glad to see them go from that point of view but sad since I had friends working at MILW.
Specifically the comment was about them having the best engineered route circa 1912. Which was true, the issue was it stayed that way until it was abandoned which is a point that will be coming up in my video that comes out on the 15th.
@@thetrainhopper8992 I don't see how that is possible. NP and GN completed routes before on better alignments. MILW never had the best engineered route in 1912, or before, or since. I worked for BN when MILW was in operating the Extension. Whatever.
@@johntitterton4840 I think he means best engineered in terms of the grades.
@@Kvr3005 Gn had better every thing
Absolutely incorrect, but there are a few that spread these false narratives on various websites. I am never sure if it is just trolling, or intended to hurt the people who really valiantly tried to keep the Milwaukee going before it was sabotaged by poor management.