Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - MMORPG - Does the new art style work for Pantheon?
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2023
- #pantheonmmo #mmorpg #pantheonplus
Therek breaks down the September 2023 art style reveal and explores why the change was made, and whether it works for the game overall.
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The old art style looks so much grittier and mature.
The new style looks like something a baby would play.
The reason I pledged long ago was VR saying they were ok with being a niche game if it meant they could make the game they wanted. VR has since been walking away from that and the 'new art style will appeal to a larger audience' is more of the same. I am very concerned the game will just keep bleeding away from the original concept until we get a game geared for the kiddos and not the old school gamers that supported the game in the first place. I am also disappointed in the lack of forethought in design that keeps leading to constant reboot of core design.
They need to find that balance between mass appeal and a sustainable playerbase.
Yeah, doesn't seem like much forethought at all. I think it's clear the dev team is wildly inexperienced and spitballing it, learning to make an MMO as they go. My hope for an actual release is very low, but I'm hopeful regardless.
I've missed some recent communications, but VR have never mentioned wanting to have wider appeal as a driver for the new style. It's all about performance, speed of development, wanting a consistent and distinct look, etc. Yeah Ben mentions it in the recent vid as a bonus. Sure. But hardly a driver.
Everything that makes Pantheon Pantheon is there. Challenge, community, discovery and I would add complexity. Complex and deep mechanics that make the core gameplay loop interesting.
I will worry if VR start showing us cash shops, global auction houses, dungeon finders, extensive fast travel, mechanics that allow all content to be soloed, etc.
Graphics are not 'core design'.
Yeah I made posts about this years ago even when I saw the cracks forming. The constant redesigns make me think this game has been in development hell and shows no sign of breaking out of it.
very good point. Old schoolers do not imho focus that much on style but on content. I am afraid the game will end like Crowfall, where the devs also lost their ways.
Good video , the one thing I will say is the art as it is now doesn’t seem to take itself serious , which does entirely destroy the entire world feel.
Thank you!
I've been pledged and very closely following development of this game for 8+ years now, as well as following you and the many other content creators that have come and gone. This change completely killed all confidence I had in the team at VR. I've remained optimistic throughout the MANY setbacks and "projects within a project" up to this point, but I simply just don't care anymore. This art change killed it for me completely, and it wasn't because of anything lore related. It is because I can't imagine any scenario where I'd enjoy spending hours at a time staring at this whimsical painted world, full of silly painted mobs, to level up a crappy looking painted avatar equipped with brush-stroked armor and weapons. There is nothing to relate to or identify with there. I'm just completely done caring about the game ever coming out now. Maybe I'll end up being wrong in the end, but Ican't see it right now.
Same except throughout these 8 years I had a shadow of doubt in the back of my mind that kept me from pledging despite probably hundreds of times visiting the site and wanting to put multiple hundreds into it to try and get in early.. Now I have no interest unless this change is 100% reverted and im glad I followed my gut this entire time. What a disgrace and slap in the face to Brad.
Couldn't agree more. They got all our money years ago for pre-launch purchase, so now what do they care.
I mean this is freaking ridiculous and they know it. Truly I don't think they ever plan on releasing the game after following for so many years. I think it's a pump-and-dump just like their other schemes
The red flags for me was when they never streamed live all the classes.
Yea, I can't say I'm pleased with this change. For one is smells as if they have given up and went with something "lesser" also, why do you have to basically steal WOW graphics from 2004?
@@chrisgayler2733as a tester, I can tell you that's because they don't want critics to draw comparison to EQ1 class system. It is more or less the same exact game, or was before the art change.
Old art style infinitely better.
Incoming mobile release!
@@googleifyouseekayu247 crew let’s gooo!
So I'm not gonna walk out and slam the door (yet) but the new style has to prove it's capable of delivering the feel of a dangerous world. That the armor does not look like cheap plastic but something I'd spend time trying to get and that the character I'm playing acually looks cool. To me the look of a game sets the tone of it. Atm. that tone is easy kids game to spend a few moments on, not a living world to adventure in for years.
Yeah exactly, does equipment and danger feel like looting the assassins mask in lower guk. Cartoony seems to go hand in hand with easy in my experience so it'll take my brain some getting used too. Like straight up I wouldnt ever feel tense fighting that bear mob, ever. That's a problem.
Right, MMOs need to get you to commit to them. This style speaks more to a casual connection.
@@thekwillis2830 You found the low poly backflipping frogmen monsters in Everquest made it feel 'tense'?
For me, Everquest graphics were often goofy.
The tenseness in the assassin mask (and other) camps in EQ came from the difficulty of holding the camp and rareness of the drop and just about ever other factor than graphics, no?
@@thekwillis2830 Yeah the graphics of that bear doesn't have that danger feeling, but neither did EQ.. however, once you fought that bear, you were sure to stay away from them and out came that feeling of danger lol
I’ve followed pantheon for many many years. I can’t see how this is a good thing. I hope I get proved wrong.
I prefer the old style better. I remember a lot of hype about the environment. I remember discussions on the environment affecting your ability to play the game. It doesn't feel like this new art style fits that concept, but I may not be envisioning it. They definitely need more material out there to showcase this new style. Definitely not a deal breaker for me though. Looking forward to more content from you guys and from Pantheon in the near future. Thanks for all you guys do!
Happy to oblige! Good point about environmental effects.
Great video Therek and very well put. Looking past the art style itself my biggest concern is, why now? This all seems shockingly similar to the whole "Refactor" situation. As an outsider looking in this change shouldn't have been done weeks or months ago but YEARS. You mention them having to account for every penny but what is accounting for without accountability? They had to do a "Refactor" to get rid of a bunch of "Junk Code" and now all the art they have been working on is Junk Art. What next?
Thanks man! For sure, the process is always hard to figure out. So much time spent on promoting an art style we'll never see now. Its a bummer
The new look seems like they are dialing back everything.
It seems like they are going for a high fantasy Wild star look and while it might work, it's not what we had been told and shown for so long.
I think a lot of fair practice law is coming down on video gaming and its deceptive practice. I think once a product ventures away from what was sold I should be granted a refund. So many changes and pushback and not one benefit for those who pledge but a longer wait. It's been over 7 years and they are still trying to figure out its style. If it turns out I backed a Hello Kitty I'll go insane.
EXACTLY, this is just a mobile game now. Brad would be embarrassed.
I will gladly join the lawsuit.
I would join the lawsuit as well.
Seeing the side by side comparisons like that was really painful. Why VR why? I’ll have a very hard time getting past this. I have an alpha pledge, and even with the slow development and all the hiccups, this is the first time I’ve regretted that purchase.
When they said they would remake the world a second time I started losing faith but this... I think this is where I drop off. It's just feeling like regression.
This video couldn't have put it better. We were given a deep rich, mature, authentic, and sometimes dark setting/story/lore to experience over many years. This new art style does not match that mood/tone at all. Thank you for drawing these comparison examples. At the end of the day, I believe it was primarily a business decision, not a decision driven by the Pantheon world itself. Which is a shame to the many of us who adored what it was.
Remember, VR could have created a more simplistic graphical style while still staying in tune with the world and lore. They chose not to. They chose to do a total 180. In my opinion, they are intentionally changing their target audience. Which is crazy ironic considering what we were told for years about this game's direction and vision. All in the context of the history of SOE, EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard, etc.
Thanks, and yes, I feel the same in a lot of ways. The legacy is the MMOs from which their vision came.
Yeah, a smart idea would have been doing something similar to what Valheim did. That game is very, very simple. Made by 2 guys and went into EA after just 1 year of them tinkering around off the clock. It has a fantastic gritty + basic style that manages to look quite beautiful at a distance. Id love to hear exactly why something like this was impossible or not considered. Id love to know why we couldn't have a community vote, explaining the graphics had to be toned down, and give us a option of 3 style to choose from. That would have been great.
New style looks more cartoonish, which in my opinion denigrates how deep your submersion can go in the game. This will be an issue for me. Makes me lean more towards ashes of creation.
right? I was 100% team Pantheon, but after seeing this rubbish.
I was in the beta for Everquest Next like a decade ago, this new art style looks soo much like that game. Did I mention that was a decade ago? How many players does Everquest Next have now? Oh, it never launched? Hmm 🤔
I'm out on this game, definitely a deal breaker. I played Everquest for years then moved on to Everquest 2 and then Vanguard. I had high hopes this game would succeed where it failed but those hopes are dashed. I hate the look 🤷🏼♂️
If only Vanguard was still with us :)
@@StaticGroupLive They would have been better off taking all the millions of dollars people donated for this game to just buy the intellectual property rights to and the source code for Vanguard, re-released it and start from there. They've managed to make every incompetent decision possible in this development process, to the point where I can't, in good faith, say they aren't just scamming people. What a waste.
As someone who had no interest in ever playing Pantheon I must admit that the old art style was actually one of the things I thought they got right about this game - it looked really good and realistic in a "gamey" kind of way, if that makes sense. This new aret style quite frankly looks like a mobile game, or like Albion Online or Raid Shadow Legends......horrible.
Very good breakdown. You cover my sentiments well.
I'm really worried about what this is going to do with other systems that i looked forward to, such as weather, climate, darkness meaning darkness, etc. I think they can still pull it off, but, I'm worried that it may end up unintentionally funny and ruin the ability to immerse myself in the game. I had no problems in eq but could never get into wow.
Thank you so much! Yes, that is certainly a concern. Too many games feed off the art style to create content. Too jokey/goofy. Let's hope that doesn't happen!
From a person that has been following this game for 8 years and pledged to get alpha access I am very disappointed. We've already been through the ringer with their lack of communication in the past (especially during the refactor) and the lengthy development timeline. I was big fan of what the game originally looked like and I didn't care what some of critics said. The lighting, environment, and armor looked great to me. This new style completely changes everything and it is a pretty poor decision to pull the rug out from under the people that have pledged support for a game that has taken so many years and has yet to get to alpha. Seem like the team has been chasing too many bells and whistles like the perception system and climbing and have sacrificed the bigger aspects of a good game in the process.
It’s a tough change to weather if you liked the look (as I did too), but I would still play it. If it means Pantheon or not, I can live with it. Still, hear what you are saying. It’s been a long road.
I'm with you & pledged $250 over 7yrs ago & this is a horrible change.
I lost interest years ago & this change comes at no real shock.
They could've released this art style 6yrs ago...😢
From unique to Fortnite look alike... (insert cricket noise)
I'm sorry, but with the talent this team has on the backend. There is no excuse they couldn't make 5 year old Unity models run at 60fps. Someone is obsessing over graphics on the team and that is why this happened. They spoke of limited graphics for armor sets in the old style years ago. NO one complained.
Want to agree. The recent Producer’s Letters have also mentioned seeing significant performance gains in PA testing, so the “more performant” rationale is somewhat nebulous. I didn’t mention it in the video, but the thought crossed my mind. Good point.
Great video btw! Good work on the comparisons!@@StaticGroupLive
Seeing the old and new art side by side makes me sad haha. I hate the new stuff on its surface level. So much more needs to shown to us.
I will most definitely be playing the game, but this shift has taken away any thoughts i had of ever backing the game. Im one of those people waiting for a full alpha, and or beta, to fork over cash to the devs. This switch in style has crushed that for me. One day maybe they will earn my continued sub to their game with excellent gameplay but, ive fallen completely off the hype train and hitching back home.
I know, it's tough to see the old stuff. Always good to hear your opinion Omega!
This is one reason cited for WoW's early success - they could get a lot of stuff out quickly and didn't alienate people who didn't have the "next gen" boxes to run it on, today. That said, yet another big switch this late in the dev cycle is another notch in the "yeah, it's never coming out" stock.
Correct, a lowered barrier to entry with rapid iteration is a good thing. The optics are a problem for sure. Better late than never?
The new art style 100% does NOT work with the game I hoped we would get (modern EQ with different lore). It seems hard to take the game seriously when you’re following Sleepless and epic armour graphics with cartoon characters.
I was so excited when the previous character models were being displayed with armour and animations. Those were the best updates from VR. REMEMBER THE WINK?!
Above all else, my biggest concern is that this change is an act of desperation “just to get a game made” with the coffers running low.
I’ve given it some time to let everything sink in. I’ll give it a chance since I pledged to Alpha but my expectations and enthusiasm are in the dumps.
PS. I feel especially bad for Therek and any other P+ folks who have trouble getting on board with this change. You guys sacrifice so much to support this game. It is a huge part of your life! To have such a massive and overwhelmingly negative change take place must be really hard at this point. Thanks for all you guys do! I’ll keep watching even if my interest in Pantheon fades.
I absolutly remember the wink. I was excited about those models too. That's where I thought this game was headed.
Haha the wink…yes I remember it well. Appreciate the support Athen! We’ll keep on keeping on. If nothing else, we’ve got a great fan community (like yourself) to keep the fires burning.
PPS. I was feeling a little down about the world when I wrote this in the morning. It’s still how I feel but maybe not so dire *pun fxing intended*
Thanks for the update. This unfortunately makes me not so anxious for this game. I would prefer they don't try to "compete" with others mmos - I don't want a wow/jrpg type mmo that is a bit cartoony (I would go play those if that is what I wanted). Trying to get a wider audience with the "look" of the game is not always best for the game play and community. I hope whatever changes and development make it a strong enough game to consider still playing.
Thank you, and great comment. Yes, changing the look to appear to the masses is a dangerous game. Gameplay really needs to be there for it to overcome a simplified appearance. But, from what I’ve experienced in the past for gameplay, there’s still hope.
What a complete let down. I was so looking forward to this game and now I want my money back. We all know this is NOT what Brad McQuaid had in mind when he started in on Pantheon.
Agreed.
ALL the art work and concept art they ever released was nothing like this. I accept that my money is gone - a pledge is not a contract, so this is not "breach of contract" - but it's breach of trust. I've liked games with more cartoony graphics like Kingdom Hearts or Zelda's Breath of the Wild, but those are single player adventures, not a world I'm trying to immerse myself in.
I don't like WoW because of its art style. One reason I never even TRIED Wildstar was the art style. FFXIV's art style is borderline that, but at least some of the character models look like semi-real people. Embers Adrift and LotRO both have realistic character models (proportions/etc) instead of cartoon ones and are hardly pushing computers to their limits, so people saying "realistic means only high end PCs can play and limits your audience", I call BS on that.
And for the people saying cartoony doesn't get dated, like hell it doesn't. Go look at FF9. I love that game, but the character models are dated as heck. A mature art style with realistically proportioned characters doesn't have to break GPUs. And for all the people saying the new style is fine if the gameplay is good, then why wouldn't a lower end realistic style be fine if the gameplay was good, too, hmmmm?? It's just not a good argument.
.
If they had been pitching this art style from the start, I never would have donated money. If they had a sense of honor, they'd refund everyone who doesn't like the art style shift. They won't, because they don't (and likely don't have the money anyway). And that's the bigger issue here. This is setting the game back - yet again - and alienating a lot of people in the process. This was something, if they intended to make this switch, they should have done YEARS ago and let people know at the time and (if they were really sold on it) let people have their money back if they didn't agree.
Complete let down and, after 7-8 years, I'm just...not interested in this game anymore. I don't even care if it DOES release at this point - though I suspect more and more it won't - now. I just...don't care to even try playing this.
Ok now that I’ve actually watched I’ll give my thoughts lol. I am ok with the new style but I do think I would’ve preferred what we were previously being shown. I think if the new look gets us the game faster and more performant it’s a win/win but that’s yet to be seen
No, no, the Old Art style is better...
Too many games go for the cartoony look knowadays. People are looking for a grittier look, not this watered down disney stuff. I really liked the almost old-school MTG style of the original concept art, and am sad to see the game go in this new direction.
If they felt they needed to go for a more cartoony art style, they should have looked at grittier cartoon style's imagine a game that looked like Fire and Ice...
Fire & Ice is one of my favourite animated movies! I would 100% play any MMO in that style LOL. There are several games out right now that seem to be embracing this art style, I agree.
If their doing this with the art style to appeal to a wider audiences, does anyone not think that the group only, more harsh gameplay style won't be changed to a WOW, way to easy type of game? Not looking forward to this anymore
If that happens, it would be a deal breaker for almost everyone that has been interested in Pantheon. Challenge is a core tenet.
With each passing day I like the new art less and less and it doesn’t align with the underlying complex game that it purports to achieve. I don’t want to be aggravated by this change but I am.
Totally understandable
not a fan of the new art style, I liked the old style much better.
Great Video Therek! You make a lot of good points and comparisons and seeing them show side by side like that makes a big impact. You even asked that news letter question that was confusing me to about high costs and not wanting to look like every other indie budget game out there...
Thanks Bounty, appreciate the support! I wanted to do more of the side by side comparisons too. I kind of feel like this new style looks more like every other indie game out there ironically.
I can't articulate any more my thoughts what others have posted here. All I have taken from this experience is that I regret backing this project and I am now more aware for the future to be more wise with that I invest in. Since what I was excited for and looking forward to has changed. Instead of a gritty sidegrade to Everquest 2 looking models, we're getting a watered down fusion of Warcraft and Wizard 101. Graphics don't make the game, this is true and I've played games with art that is unflattering to enjoy. But if I am going to invest more than forty hours into the product the visuals (for me personally) have to be satisfying. This is not.
Thanks PantheonPlus and the rest of the community for being lovely. I know my post is a downer, but it's how I feel.
You’re welcome, and no need to apologize. Appreciate the honest perspective. You’re right too, to spend the amount of time MMOs want you playing, it’s hard when it’s not visually appealing. The games I mentioned in the video aren’t MMOs, so that’s a factor.
this just RUINED my day. I have been a backer for years and now I dont think this will have any staying power for me with the cartoon art style
Im just seeing this 5 months later and am now very saddened. I guess the game as we thought it is completely dead.
The tone versus the look is a fantastic argument. It simply doesn't match now. WoW was dangerously close to having this same issue back in 2003. In fact, I would argue they actually do have this issue now as I've long since given up being able to take that game serious for multiple reasons with the ever-increasing cartoon look being near the top of the list. So I very much agree with another point made here; show us something created in the new art style that we're meant to take serious.
honestly not liking the change in art direction, it's just going the direction of another wow clone, it diminishes the identity of the game imo.
Very well thought out video. I appreciate the time you took. For me I do not regret the money I put down so many years ago, but moving forward I'll not give another studio the chance I did VR. I invested because Brad was there. I now see that for me the love and excitement for the game has gone.
Thank you. I think being invested in this project has taught many lessons about following a game in development for me.
Lol, traumatic much, if the game came out in a month's time you would play it and be excited to play it.
Don't lie to yourself lol.
@@ShadeMoon42 So let me get this straight. If Pantheon came out in a month I would be excited to play. I don't know anything about you, so I'm not going to make assumptions, but that is a pretty weak trolling if that's what you are attempting there. Enjoy your game brother, don't let me get you that upset. Cheers
@@IYUB30 Be honest with yourself, you would play it lol.
We need to see the new art style much more clearly before we can say anything of substance of it, but I agree that it's almost certainly the case that this decision was made entirely based on cost. The old art style would have been great and very future-proof. It focused on environmental depth and distance. It would have been similar to how Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was at launch; not the prettiest in certain ways, but elevated greatly by its draw distance and density of foliage and things like that.
I always thought Vanguard was a great looking game for its time too.
I prefer the orig style but thats probably because it's what Ive gotten used to and associate with the game. I still like the new style and just want the game to come out.
Yep, adjustment takes time
if I am been 100% honest Im not really fussed about the art style, I just want to the game to come out as soon as possible.
This art style change is essentially project cancellation. This will likely allow them to slowly disappear instead of dealing with blowback of direct cancellation.
This reminds me of Vanguard - Saga of Heroes. When the game launched it had highly detailed and fairly realistic graphics for its time, not unlike the old style of Pantheon, but at the same time most PCs struggled to run the game.
Vanguard was basically limiting its audience and a couple of years later, the graphics looked dated with a "plastic" feel to them.
You want low PC requirements for the same reason movie producers want a low PG rating. Broader audience.
Right now the new art style looks "simplified cartoonish".
I would like to see VR also produce "simplified grim" to fit the stories and lore.
Let's hope they can pull that off
12:26 gave me some hope..
To answer the title: no it doesn't.
I was, and at times still am, mostly worried that this game would be in a situation where that if it does release that it would be dead on arrival due too many changes that not many people asked for or that it took too long and eventually other MMOs start filling the void that Everquest for the most part filled for a long time. I know they are a small team. I'm just hoping they don't lose their original idea that we all were hyped for.
They need to stay true to the tenets they have set, agreed.
I am truly sad they made this change. I do not believe it will be possible for me to get immersed into this world now.
I was iffy at first and still am about the human model. But overall I've come to appreciate the cohesiveness and how quickly they're able to add content to the world. Gameplay is definitely paramount for me.
Aye, same.
As always Therek, a very well done video. Mature, fair and rational commentary.
I’m also in the rather large camp that this art change is a downgrade from even the old Unity assets art style. Just think about that for a moment: the new style is not-as-good as the old default assets that anyone could buy were. So VR apparently said, “let’s do that!”
I understand that the new art is cheaper and faster to make. But there’s a very famous IT Development phrase/meme that goes like this: “You can have your project done Fast, Cheap or Good, Pick any TWO”. VR apparently chose Fast and Cheap…and sacrificed Good. It shows. The new models, especially the faces are the worst.
More importantly though is the new play mode they’ve announced, and I hope you do a video on exactly what they have for testing now.
Thank you Nagasakee! As soon as NDA allows, a video will be made, rest assured.
I 100% thought the arts were swapped.... wow, it's like they went back to 2005 in graphics lmao.
At least I don't have to worry if my computer can handle early 2000s graphics.
Great video, Therek. I feel similarly to you and the commenter who said they just want the game to take itself seriously. This painted style or the various cell-shaded-like looks can do that, but it's more difficult to achieve. I have a feeling Visionary Realms will probably not quite hit the mark on that, so I will have to settle for OK in the art department and let the non-visual aspects of Pantheon keep me more engaged.
Thanks bud! It's just another challenge VR has to overcome to make the graphics match the tone. Hope they can do it.
I donated years ago thinking I was getting EQ classic reskinned. Thought it would be a quick development cycle. Boy was i wrong. I don't recognize this as anything I made my pledge based on.
Same.
I see a lot of the people talking up the art style are people saying they haven't pledged YET. While there are some backers that like it or are neutral on it, I am not. I pledged in 2016, which was...7 years ago? I wasn't expecting super high end graphics and photo-realism, but I WAS expecting "realistic" graphics (in terms of things like characters, proportions, etc). Look at Embers Adrift. Low end graphics, but the characters don't look like cartoons.
I really really dislike this move. It's yet another in a long list of "oh, wait, we're redoing an entire game thing we should have set in stone years ago" showing this is never coming out (so all the people saying this will "speed progress" and get the game in our hands are probably wrong), but I also just...really hate it. It looks like EQNext/Landmark, and I obviously have bad memories of that.
If I want cartoony graphics, I'll play WoW. This is not what I gave this company money for and was not EVER what the game was billed as. If they had said this art style was their intent all along, I don't think I'd ever have pledged. I get projects change, and a pledge is helping something you like the idea of achieve reality. This is not what I like the idea of. It was not billed as such. ALL the artwork they've ever done was not this. At no point did they ever even hint they were even considering a change to this. That is a breach of trust.
I've just written off the money - a pledge is not a contract, so they aren't in breach of contract - but they've done something worse, breach of trust. I hope they choke on the money I gave them because of them lying about what they were intending to make.
No one can say the new art style is better. It’s NOT. Old graphics were actually really good! 10 years and then we get this “new” style. After all that.. we get wow graphics at best. Not immersive at all 👎
My problem is not the lower polygon count it's the cartoon style, bright colors, etc. If you need to go with lower graphics and simpler designs, fine! But don't go and make it look like some mobile game..it's really bad taste. I'm shocked VR chose this style to be honest.
@@Ziegfried82 100% bro. I think with this game it’s gonna be a niche audience. Now even more. Group and role-playing. With all the really potentially good MMO’s coming out and that are out I just don’t know where Pantheon will fit. I don’t wanna close the door but jus VERY disappointed with the new art style. I mean.. the bear they showed looks ridiculous! Lol. But I wish pantheon the best.
It gets tougher every day boys... I appreciate you keeping up the good work.
Cheers!
Thank you for continuing the discussion. I agree that the darker more serious aspects will struggle to translate into a game that looks like Fortnite or Palia.
Love the vid! I found the original video (the one you used for this) a bit disingenuous. I don't understand why they would show us so little when they claim they have been creating art faster than ever over the last few months. Things do look to be running quite smoothly in-game, which is something.... I guess? We got to see a fair amount of the greenery but now im wondering what the other aesthetics (ice of Amberfaet, dark of Halnir's cave etc) look like. I don't hate the art style changes in principle, but I hope this doesn't lead to the overall aesthetic being too whimsical/friendly. Those wolves look like they would be happy to let me pet and feed them...
Thanks so much! Seeing some other areas would go a LOOONG way in reassuring fans that the world still feels the same. Some variation in this style. No matter what they do, I wouldn’t recommend feeding the wolves though lol :)
@@StaticGroupLive Indeed :) They are doing well on the 'pretty' side of things I just hope they get the 'ugly' right too. I hope the orcs still look brute-ish, for example. Time will tell. Anyway, looking forward to more content- both yours and theirs. Many thanks
I could look at these stylized models and landscapes for 10s of thousands of hours if it means we get the gameplay that they promised to deliver. I'm currently playing EQ P99, I have never played EQ before, and I'm enjoying it immensely. I would like if it leaned into a grimdark version of what we see now or became progressively more grimdark with increasingly higher level zones.
It’s odd, but I like them both… for different reasons
the old art style wasn't even really an 'art style', but i still vastly prefer it to the new one.
My husband prefers this style, i like either/or. Game coming out sooner with this style, great! Beta tester waiting to jump in.
From Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen to Pantheon: Chronicles of Elyria, Ohio
Like many here, I have followed this game and pledged many years ago in hopes that the dev team will create the world they set out to. My faith seems to be tested every couple of years and this year seems to be that year again. To be honest, the art style seems fairly neutral to me. I have a feeling that what is going to make the difference is the lighting and the animations. I can't say I really like the way some of the animals look. They look kind of clay like or waxy or something, but it's not as off putting to me as say an Anime style is. VR really didn't help themselves either with that 5min 'reveal' they had either. All we can really do is hope that switching over to this does what they say it will do, speed things up and allow it to get to alpha that much faster. Only time will tell and hopefully the community will stick around to find out.
Well said
I need more examples before I decide. Show us a scary or disgusting NPC. Show us a zone we saw in an old video and let us see what the new zone looks like!
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Pretty sure those old zones were set pieces hard coded in. They were basically fake zones for a fake game. The real game is what Cohh showed us 2-3 years ago, with a half finished zone (maybe not even half). That's all they have, that's it. Confirmed by the CM on Reddit. Now they are changing Art Style. 10 years 1 partially finished zone. The only reason changing art wasn't a big deal was because they barely had anything to change aka, they barely have a game.
Depressing stuff. Absolute failure of a team.
With the new art style, I half expected to see Link riding Epona towards Kakariko Village!
Haha I can hear that as well!
looks even more asset store to me, Nhance and many others sell stuff that looks exactly like the art shown. Its the same style I often use in the indie games I make.
Didn't know that, thanks!
Honestly I kind of hate it. I mean I love how WoW looks but I was looking forward to the more realistic looking graphics. But I have stopped giving a rat's ass about this game a long time ago. It has gone through way to many changes I just dont have alot of faith left. I will probably be dead by the time this game releases.
I like the new art style myself, and the old as well. I just want this game to launch already so we all can play.
Thank you, Therek, for such a thoughtful, sincere, and informative video. Exceptional summary. Your presentation of facts coupled with insightful and mature evaluation is laudable. There is a lot of frustration -- if not blatant hate -- being voiced in the community right now; your calm-yet-critical critique is a relief, and for what it is worth, I wholeheartedly echo your sentiments.
Thanks a lot! Nice to hear this style of analysis is appreciated.
This video covers most of my feelings on the new art style. The one addition I'll say is that I was really hoping for more realistic armor. I don't mean realistic like the texture. I mean armor that is modeled after real medieval armor.
I always expected both the graphics and the game play to be average, and I would be happy considering the size of the team. Now that the graphics look like trash, the game play is going to have to be awesome to have any chance of success. They're really putting all their eggs in one basket now, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't more than a bit concerned. My donation to the project was like a decade ago, so my interest in the game has already almost gone but this change in art style will make it very hard to get reinvigorated if it ever releases.
Good to keep the size of the team as a factor, I agree. If the gameplay lines up with their tenets, I’ll still be all in.
@PantheonPlus You know I think the more frustrating part is that after a decade of development, they're just figuring this out now. If this was 2 or 3 yrs in, it'd be a little easier to swallow. But at the end of the day, it's an mmo with old school mechanics, so if it releases, I'll still be there to try it regardless of my lack of optimism. I do truly hope that after all their hard work, they somehow find a way to make it a success. Ans keep up the good fight PantheonPlus
Thank you!
Thank you Therek for curating this great video and sharing your thoughts. Here are my two cents:
- I personally wasn't a fan of the previous models, though I didn't mind the art style, but that said
- I do prefer the new art style
Ultimately, I'm all for the game being released if it adheres to the core tenants that it is based on. I feel it's fair to say that the previous graphics divided the community, and there's no change here. But one of the arguments often presented was that graphics weren't as important as gameplay. So, I propose the same still holds true; the gameplay is still the priority, even if game now uses a 'painted' style.
Absolutely true. Gameplay is king. When people said they didn’t like the graphics in our previous gameplay videos, it was always countered with the gameplay being good. The same holds true now, just from the other side of the fence for me.
It looks like Fortnite, Wayfinder, WoW and all other candy cartoonish graphics so no this is not good. No it does not fit to the game image. For me more realistic style like EQ2, Warframe and such would be better. (why many new games want to look like fortnite or WoW i have no idea)
Also the reasoning that it will run better is stupid at best. New consoles just got released not long ago and new hardware requirements are allready put to practice so asking players to have 16GB RAM and atleast 2070GTX or Radeon 5700xt and 6core CPU with SSD is not too much to ask these days. (many new games allready have similiar requirements.) Not everything needs to run on potato 960 or 1060 should not be lowest requirement anymore these days.
I'm just blown away with how much progress they made years ago and then scrapped it. It felt like the team was dedicated and optimistic then and today it feels like a lot of back tracking double speak and trying to sound as positive as possible. I don't feel it was genuine when they said out of the goodness of their hearts they are allowing alpha pledges in early. I view it as a business move. Give everyone an opportunity to play for $100 is easier to accept than $1000 for pre alpha access to view the game. It will inevitably bring in more pledge money.
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New art style much better.
Whyle I can appreciate the decision to modernize. The Artstyle change is the top priority for the game. They have so many more pressing problems to deal with that the looks should be further down the list.
Agreed!
Fantastic video, Therek.
Good vid man! Hope all is well, I definitely love the new art style and think it was the best decision they've ever made. Aesthetically and technically S tier.
Thanks! Doing good here, hope you are too. I hope the shift gets the game out sooner.
Might be okay if they just release on mobile.
New art style really does look like a mobile game. I'm starting to doubt the game is ever going into alpha testing let alone launching, so I'm no longer worried about playing. I gave em $100 like 7 years ago. A complete graphics/art redesign when they already did a complete overhaul of the code? I can't help but doubt the viability of the project at this point.
I do like the old style but it was placeholder anyway. When they did refactor we lost that awesome looking TF and the in-house stuff wasn’t nearly as nice.
New environment is immersive for me - I just want to see more attn to detail. More details on human face and hair that doesn’t look plastic
Yeah the faces are a bit off-putting for sure
After all this time they are still deciding on the art style! Man, what about all the game play that’s required in a mmo, this game development is just a work program
I agree with many that they really need to show off what the new system is capable of doing and their ability to make the environment engaging. However, the new system giving the ability for them to make the game in a more cost effective way to get it in the hands of players quicker is definitely appealing too. Hopefully they strike a good balance.
I pledged for alpha access 9 years ago. I don't understand why they are going in circles. I'm beyond disappointed at this point. I just want my money back. The only way this works if if they had stuck to being a spiritual successor to EQ. There is no way they compete with AoC or LoL's mmo for a mass audience. We have been betrayed.
to stand the test of time. game has to hit market first. To me, checking in every 6 months finding the same things happening in different calendar years I feel like they are about to go past the point of no return and when the game launches in 5+ years it will launch to about 1000 die hards and kind of just disappear after that.
Understandable
If the new art style helps them actually ship the game I'm all for it. I was interested in this game for its gameplay, not really the graphics.
Therek will you and your partner in crime be doing your by weekly Pantheon news stream starting soon? I realize there needs to be news to do that but assuming there was is that still the plan? Hopefully you will I really enjoyed that format to get VR news. Thanks!
Desryn and I will be doing a Rewind episode as soon as there is a bit more meat on the bone to chew. Yes, still the plan though! The Rewind will live on :)
Brad is rolling in his grave.. Sucks was still holding onto hope
that's still a crazy step down in art style that im guessing its easier to make and run on lower end hardware.
The old look is what made me want to play it. A sort of homage to the weird scary look original EQ did for me years ago. Not having a torch and navigating the old dungeons.. This new look just rubs me the wrong way personally
Totally agree
I just want an actual mmo to be released, if the new art style helps then so be it. Classic wow is still hella popular with its graphics. Gameplay matters most
Yup. A released MMO with Pantheon’s tenets overrides everything.
I’m not turned off. It’s a different feel. But I would still play Skyrim if it looked like this. I loved and was floored by the color gradient of Valheim. I’ll look to mechanics, exploration, class synergies. I was not a fan of the Gnome or Archai models I had seen in old art style. I feel this style could really make them pop and glow. I’ve been not paying as much attention as I had in the past, taking a step back while waiting for what will come. I’ll look for how* they have fun with the style, but I honed in on the “taking it serious” phrase. I’d love to see those complex and gorgeous mobs.
Edit: how*
Great points! The gnome models for sure may be well served by this style. I also agree that class synergies, exploration, and mechanics supersede art style.
They could have a hand painting style but with a more sober / darker tone. Owlcat does it amazingly with their Pathfinder and Warhammer games... I guess Pantheon just lacks what is necessary for a non generic looking graphic style
I'll have to check those games out to compare.
Spiritual successor to an older game with a majority older audience.... changes art style to be more on the childish side. Will be interested to see how this pans out.
I still look forward to the game one day just gets harder to be hype about it. Who knows maybe it will actually be a good game, one can hope.
I have never been a fan of this style of art, but if the fun factor is there ill buy in on it. At this point ill need a beta of some sortt before i do actually buy in. Sucks looking at the new art it looks silly.
Anyway subbed and liked keep it comin brother.
Thanks a lot, appreciate it! I think we’re sort of thinking along the same lines. Keeping an open mind about the art, and hoping the MMO aspects are what defines Pantheon for sure.
For me it is simple. If the art style lets me get into the core gameplay I'm fine.
i agree.. the new art style puts me off so much and i much prefer the old art style.. if i hadn't supported the game then id be out all together
if the gameplay loop is fun the art style doesn't matter
Fun over everything, facts. :)
Graphics may not matter, but art style does in fact matter a lot. Having a bad art style is an immediate turn off, it leaves a bad first impression in a way that even low res graphics cannot.
Nah wrong look how successful Minecraft is or runescape classic@@Ziegfried82
Great video Therek. My take on the new art? It looks like cheap mobile content. I do not feel any seriousness coming from this cartoon-y style. I don't believe the idea of being "in the chains of the asset shop". They could have stopped using store assets anytime the chose. It doesn't mean you have to make everything look so washed out and uninspired. What happened to the 1,000s of hours they spent updating the character models? They had the same line item in their change log for 8 months at least. Ugh. Rage quit!
Thanks. Yep, feels like a lot of time was spent on the art style previously.
I'm still hyped for Pantheon I liked the old style but the new art style looks like it's going to bring an epic visual into the game the one with the moon or sun or could be a planet only seen exploding from that area, it looks like it's still going to blow WoW away and take a seat next to EQ on the Throne.
I'm still looking forward to playing it one day (hopefully) haha
Gameplay and group dynamics are more important to me than graphics
Just a thought about the art style and how it fits into the feeling of the lore. The current new art style pictures they have shown are bright and light hearted. But I remember the old Disney movies like Snow White and others. Bright, cherry in the painted style but then dark and sinister when something evil came around. I do believe they can still pull off the dark and scary with this artform. They just haven't shown that yet.
A great comparison. If they can pull that off, I'm on board.
Honestly I don't mind the new art style, the old one didn't really look impressive to me and looked like it would take a lot more work to look good. I'm not sure the art team was good enough to do a realistic art style that they originally set out to do. This move shows me that there is hope for this game to actually release.
Perhaps. If it was done out of necessity, I agree.