I Lost An Argument With Myself...
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- čas přidán 1. 11. 2023
- Unboxing the Vosteed Thunderbird in M390.
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A good company will Appreciate what you did here as much as We Do!
This does leave me wondering how other button locks would fare...?
I tried to disengage my civivi elementom 1st edition button lock and it didn’t budge. I was looking at that Vosteed my buddy bought and he cut himself. Reason why I didn’t pull the trigger.
The comedic timing of that knife disengaging is hilarious
@metal_complex the knife is a paid actor
just received mine, and it's not disengaging at all, even i hit it hard many times !!
Behold, the majesty of the gauntlets, protecting the fingers from the evil lock that wants to harm them. Great review
Metal Complex, I would love to see you do a spine wack test of several button locks from different brands. It would be cool to see who has the best button lock. 👍👍
Yes please do this MC!!
💯
That's interesting, I carry the smaller Thunderbird and after seeing that, I bashed the shit out of the spine on it and it didn't disengage the lock. I'm getting the titanium one tomorrow or the next day and I'll whack the shit out of that one, too, and comment what happened under this one. Glad my current seems solid (thus far). Another epic and informative review, thanks MC
I just got the smaller thunderbird as well. No issues with the lock. It's a great smaller knife with all the deployment options. It's my first button lock.
Follow up: received my titanium Thunderbird and immediately banged the sweet bejesus out of the spine with no lock failure. I tried it a number of times on various density surfaces and it stayed fully locked up, so I'm stoked. I'm sad to hear of so many Thunderbird all having lock failure, but stoked mine seem to be working as intended. Thank you for all your content again, MC; I'm always looking forward to your videos.
Mine is also SOLID bro, S35VN Version, glad to hear the Titanium is solid!!!@@Vehement_Blinkin
just received mine, and it's not disengaging at all, even i hit it hard many times !!
Really making me gun-shy of button locks recently, compression and cross bar locks will suffice for me.
I bought this exact model in s35vn. About every 4th to 5th open it is 100% stuck shut. I physically have to grab the blade and pry it from the handle. My first and last Vosteed knife. I'm sure they have great knives, but when that's your first impression, well, that's it for me.
I have the exact same issue..had it apart for a tune clean polish and lube with no improvement..any suggestions anyone..??
I like Vosteed and I have one of the new Thunderbirds with m390 and guess what? It fails a light spine tap as well. I disagree you shouldn't review a product that fails. Unless it is a prototype, you are testing a production model. Tons of people spent good money for this knife, assuming it was a finished product. It doesn't help us if another version is being worked on. Companies do need to be held accountable when they sell something that was pushed through early or untested.
I returned my Vosteed Thunderbird Frag Titanium Elmax and received my replacement. For now, I am treating it as if it is a double detent non-locking knife. My first one was solid until it wasn't. I think they use softer material for the lock and it can handle a couple of bumps before it starts getting loose.
I like button locks, I just don't have the same confident in them as a frame lock or a liner lock. Plus I just love the feeling of a well tuned detent. And with the button locks that pass reviewers.. If 100 knives were tested of models that pass, would all 100 pass, 98, 80? There is just too much room for error (at this point in time). I want to be confident when using a tool.
Wow. That's crazy. I can't believe they didn't notice that. Thanks MC
"Ha ha the imaginary person in my head won the argument hahaha"
That, was awesome.
🤘🏼✌🏽
I've owned two buttonlock knives and both suffered from this exact mode of failure. And yes, 9 times out of 10, it won't matter. But once I'm aware that it's a weakness, I can't stand to carry the knife. Unfortunately, it just seems to be a design weakness in plunge lock knives.
That is too bad. I was instantly in love with the look of this knife, and I love the steel. Lock is a dealbreaker
I do like my Thunderbird, but I don’t trust button locks, and only use it for very light use! I think the test is entirely valid, though, we should have a reasonable expectation of solid lock up on any knife
As someone who has a thunderbird, the button starts to unscrew itself. Had to open mine and add some blue locktite to stop it from happening, slightly messed with the detent (10% chance it became too hard to open), other times it was fine.
My TwoSun Vandal was doing the same thing. I took the button out and turned it. It locks up solidly now, but I'm quickly learning not to put too much trust in a button lock. The only plunge lock I've seen that I'd trust with my fingers with was on a Microtech Stitch.
Multiple companies have failed this test, this is partially why i no longer own/carry button locks
My Vandal had the same issue, and I ended up returning it. Shame, because I loved everything about that knife, but I'm not going to carry a knife that I can manually disengage without pressing the lock, or even whacking the spine.
I'm staying away from button locks. Easy solution.
Thank god for this man and his videos. Mark this one off the list til further notice lol
Mine just failed too. Very little effort. I don’t know why this matters to me, but I expect a lock to lock
I was really hoping that they didn't disengage. I really like the looks of the Thunderbird. I will have to wait to see what Vosteed will do.
Got the S35VN and its SOLID, BUT i know i got lucky cause alot of them fail.... BUT i dont think alot of the Thunderbird S35VN fail on the spine wack..., I ALSO have their Valkyrie and that is also SOLID...... BUT its the Nitro V version and all the ones i seen fail are 154cm, i think the different steels grind different amounts and if they are using machines and maybe a time grinding then on the more expensive steels they may wear less, and then they arent as TOIGHT.... no idea hahah but all mine are solid and the best knives in the world.... I ordered a second valkyrie
Same, I was so into this design until I saw this
No argument, it is a lock, it should LOCK
Yeah I just ordered one last night and I canceled it this morning I really appreciate you saving the money I was kind of sketchy about button locks I'm sure you'll say that there's some good button locks out there but I think I'm going to avoid them I always thought they could possibly open up in your pocket. Maybe that's paranoia but anyway thanks again you save me a hassle and some money.
Such a shame. Vosteed has been doing great things. =/
Putting out to many designs instead of tweaking each design to perfection it happens it sucks but it happens alot.
By great things you mean "trying to scam people on Amazon by not shipping the product that was paid for, and releasing products with major quality control and safety defects" then sure, they are doing great.
@@ellukeaduke I knew when all the reviewers get the same knives around the same time and they push these brands but long-term we have no clue if they are any good and the money has been made off us by then sorry you got screwed o get screwed daily and not in a good way
@@ellukeaduke it sounds like you had some rough luck. I've got three of their knives(RSkaos, original run thunderbird, valkyrie) and have yet to be disappointed.
I had a WE knife disengage like this but my zero tolerance knife was perfect, no problems.
Literally why I don't trust button locks. Lol.
BestTech Sent me the Glok to review and when i waved it open the lock literally exploded out of it's hole. They sent me another which is totally fine luckily.
Had the same problem with the g10 cormarant.
and by "same problem" i simply mean it's something I'm conditioned to check lol
😂😂
😂who wins the argument when you disagree with yourself 😅😅😂😂
You would have thought after there 4th release the button lock issues would be fixed by now
The G-mascus scales look pretty cool, but that's all I like here!
Yeah, i do that often too
That’s why I hate button locks… it’s too easy to disengage… not just tapping but squeezing it open… I had it happen multiple times on my Kizer assassin….with back, liner, triad, compression or axis / crossbar lock I NEVER had it disengage.
The button locks should press and release a liner lock like on that one knife you demonstrated. Can’t remember the model. That seemed like a much better, and safer design.
Sorry to see this button failure, MC. Just FYI, Vosteed does know how to make high-quality button locks, as both my Raccoon and Valkyrie EDC's operate flawlessly, AND I tested with your spine-tapping method (medium force), with no failure. Overall, I think their quality, fit and finish are top-notch. That said, I also tried the same test with a Bestech Slasher (D2 and micarta scales) B-Lock ("crossbar" style), with no lock failure either. Just out of curiosity, would you say that the crossbar/Axis/B-Lock style lock is inherently stronger than any button lock? Thanks!
I got mine last week and I tried the spine tap. Even did it quite hard and the lock did not fail. Maybe the addressed the issue on the newer batches? Or maybe I just got lucky. To clarify, I got hte S35VN version.
I’ve seen quite a few failure videos with the Vosteed Trek Lock (Thunderbird and Valkyrie both have them, among other models). From what I understand, it’s not quite the same as a standard button lock, the lock rides within a slot on the blade and has a cone-shaped plunge. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on that.
From ive seen, it looks very similar to how the Kizer cormorant is done.
Yeah the cormorant is the trek lock too, As far as I understand it the designer - Yue Dong - used to work at Kizer and now works at Vosteed
I like that you have a freaking gauntlet within reach.
There was a recent thread on Blade Forums that did a poll asking: Do you trust your locking folder so much that you often grip it with your fingers in harms way. 60% replied they never think about it and 16% replied they rarely or never think about it. I was very close to trying this Thunderbird or another button lock but probably won't now. Too bad.
Wonder if that lock would still disengage on that colorful boy if you tightened the pivotva bit?
No Bueno. I was really planning on buying both of these, but not until this is fixed
Not surprised. I can close my Thunderbird with my bare hands without pressing the button at all 😞
well that just happened
The thunderbird still seems to need a bit of work. I've got 4 Vosteed knives and all but the thunderbird are near perfect. My thunderbird detent is 83.25% too light.
83.25% thank you for working the math out for us 😂 . You're comment was my comment of the Week
Have the issues with the lock disengaging and the button coming unscrewed ever been resolved with these?
The Thunderbird has the same designer as the kizer cormorant.
There are like 50 issues I could have with a knife that would be a bigger deal to me than a button lock disengaging when the spine is whacked. I also don't like gmascus typically (kind of like fat carbon), but that knife is looking good. Hoping they discount them because I'll buy the hell out of one. 😂😂😂
Hey MC!! I work closely with Vosteed and wanted to throw it out there that my Proto has a weak lock as well. But the production model does not so far. If anyone has this problem on their production version please, let me know. Sorry for the inconvenience MC. Thanks!
I really like the look of the blue one
The flaw of button lock knives. Also also... Sheered off my cormorant button spine whacking it 😆..
Any news if they are making any update to the button lock??? This puppy was next on my list!!! 😫
Thumbs up vote 👍 because of the honesty. Most reviewers won't do so because of fear of losing future freebies coming in the mail. Since you seem to tell it like it is that gives you a edge over the others.
Even normal “locks” aka lock cores can suffer from a pick/attack weakness called “bumping”. LPL has demonstrated it tons on his channel. If I recall, pin diameter and depth lend to this issue, but especially spring strength. And stronger springs are easier to implement on a lock. For knives, the challenge must be to balance spring strength (assuming it’s a leaf, versus a locks coil) with ease of use. Can’t be too tough to manipulate over and over, but has to be strong enough, or balanced enough for a solid lockup. Interesting! Thanks MC.
Where in this knife would you put a leaf spring? Do you even know where in the design of this knife there is a spring?
@@ellukeaduke Sure, it can be integral to the steel liners, much how a liner lock is. Just that it’s hidden by the scales. MC just disassembled the Good Boy on live stream, and the detent for that knife was mounted to the end of a liner integral leaf spring. It’s what made the blade fall so jerky.
Maybe integral liner spring is a better term, but I digress. Admittedly barrel springs are more likely for most, but I’m seeing variations of the button lock all over the industry, and kickstarter, that use some form of leaf or integral spring mechanism. That’s why I referenced it in the above comment, which was more a thought exercise than anything. Hope this helps👍🏻
Haha that makes me wonder if my Thunderbird is secretly a slipjoint too. Would be great for me, i live in Germany, Europes California.
Metal vs Complex 🔥🔥🔥
Yup
Button-Locks suck and need to be over with already.
I remember when the button lock Raccoon kept failing. I say just buy a bar or liner Vosteed and call it a day.
I got the same thunderbird as your blue one and it did the same thing. According to them it’s not a real life use scenario.
You know what doesnt disengage? A $50 sencut serene. 😂
just received mine, and it's not disengaging at all, even i hit it hard many times !!
"Now we have a problem." 😂😂 First the Goodboy, now the Thunderbird. Are Vosteed knives made by the same people as Bestech\ Bestechman?
thanks you 've saved my life
I have recently started a knife sharpening business, but I’m struggling to set a standardized price sheet for sharpening and cleaning. Any advice?
Shipping too , 10 total sharpenings discount, each knife , or 2 knife 5 times 😂
Don't try to have a standard price unless it's a price list every knife is so different. How you going to charge the same to do a dull high Rockwell super steel that needs a whole profile as just touching up some soft carbon? And cleaning is even worse.
Anyways you charging the same to do a hawk Deadlock as a lightning elite?
Should def just switch to the crossbar lock.
9.8 on the slap, stuck the landing but missing something…..
Metal complex has become Mental Complex
I really didn't like any of the vosteeds i bought on my first and last run on their shop.
They felt like shit in the hand, badly finished, one had a really bad grind.
The only knives i've really liked so far has been from Kizer and my Civivi Elementum, haven't dared buy any 200+ usd knives yet, but i'm getting there i suppose.
an obvious case of "didn't check that"
What does "Proto" on the blue one mean? Is that a type of steel, or because it's a prototype of the model? A Google search didn't return anything useful. BTW, love your reviews.
D'uh - you answered my question 2 seconds later in the video. Never mind me. :)
Can we talk about those plate gauntlets?
If you wanna risk the PTSD from stupidity, you should make a video with the "best" comments you've gotten. I'd watch that!
On topic, what a damn shame that their locks fail on these knifes, kinda wanted the alu one - it looks so damn good!
Would love to see the T-Bird in micarta or even regular G-10. The g-mascus is definitely marmite.
marmite? like to each their own, or its shit?
@@WhuDhat You either love it or hate it.
They gotta crossbar lock this
I have a new Thunderbird and it does not disengage when spine whacked at a moderate level. Obviously I’m not beating the hell out of it but doing what MC shows in this video mine does not do.
Vosteed make this one a crossbar!
I wonder if in the reverse grip if you stabbed it into a piece of wood if it would break the lock free. Because then that would cause you to lose some fingers
For what it’s worth to all the haters, I just tested the five button locks I have, all relatively inexpensive knives except the Protech, none failed this spine test with some decent whackage:
Civivi Praxis
Civivi Conspirator
Civivi Elementum
CJRB Ekko
Protech Malibu
LOL, careful what you wish for...
Button locks were already popular once. They had problems back then too...still haven't found one I feel is acceptable...protech comes the closest.
What about the we button lock? I've tried the "whack" test on my Ziffius and nothing failed.
@@jeffhamilton4587 several people I know have the Zif and they all love it...
When the tree branch fell on the spine of my we chevalier
This was hilarious! 😅
I hate these freaking button locks! I haven’t found one yet that doesn’t disengage with moderate force!! I have button locks from kizer, vosteed, Civivi, CJRB, and a few more, and all of them will fail with a moderate spine hit. These companies need to start making most of these folders in cross bar locks and be done with it. You could reengineer almost all of these folders to cross bar style with minimal effort. In addition to the industry stealing the axis lock from Benchmade and running with it, they should look into a compression lock system and run with it. Another option is to make a bunch of these knives in a frame lock design. A quality frame lock with a lock bar insert and over travel stop is a very robust locking system. I have a titanium QSP Penguin Plus in a frame lock and of course it has over travel stop and a solid lock insert and I can’t get that bastard to fail. I have just about stood on the spine of that knife and not a wiggle. The sad part of all this is you can buy a Spyderco Paramilitary 2, PM3, Shaman, or Manix and you will wear your arm out trying to fail one one of them from hitting them on the spine. I say it’s sad because there are perfectly good locking designs out there, most of which have long since expired in terms of patent, that most of these companies could copy. However, they keep pushing these shit button locks cause people will buy them and now most of these companies are releasing premium versions in the $150-$200 range and you can just about huff and puff and blow the lock to failure on most of them. I didn’t really buy any button locks that were expensive, mostly budget models, but I stopped purchasing them completely about a year ago and all evidence suggests that was a quality decision. I will start buying again when the knife community screams loud enough about the button locks being junk and these companies put some R&D into an alternative locking system. I will say there is one company who makes a plunge lock (essentially a button lock) that doesn’t fail and that’s Hogue. But they source W.C. Wolff Co springs and their button comes out and covers about half of the locking surface. I have a few plunge lock knives from Hogue and a couple of them I have beat the piss out of without failure, so it can be done.
To tell the truth, I’ve never heard of a folding knife ever actually closing on anyone’s hand… maybe started to, but usually with unusual circumstances. The way I use a knife, typically, I don’t even need a lock!
Had one close on mine and got stitches in my finger...I was trying to stab a hole into a thick plastic container while camping (air hole for a lizard my son caught lol) blade nearly went to the finger bone.
Thats Thunderbird is start loosing its Thunder now.....
So, not a ferro rod striker?
That's very strange. Handsome knife though.
Sweet
My mordax Button lock hasnt fauled yet
Seems like their quality control is exceeded only in shittiness by their customer service. (I ordered a knife from Amazon, they refused to ship because Amazon was holding the payment in Escrow until shipped, Vosteed tried to make it my problem, I canceled my order)
Yeah, I'm a knife maker that specializes in folders. Liner locks specifically. A knife that disengages is unsafe and should not be put to market. Any locking mechanism really. It is non negotiable, not only for me but for any knife maker's guild you would want to join. You shouldn't need a gauntlet to operate a folding knife safely.
The gauntlet is meant as an obvious joke.
I get that. 😂 I see the humour in it, but the fact that the knife closes irritates me quite a bit. At least I know now which knives I need a gauntlet for. 😂
weird im spine wacking my m390 thunderbird and can't get it to fail
Same just got one and it’s a bank vault. Now I’m only doing medium tapping cause I’m not trying to fuck it up but def not failing on a baby tap like he did
Wow, two less than positive reviews from MC on the same day! Has that ever happened before?
Is it a coincidence or did MC get all of his Halloween candy from Ben Peterson's stash?
The cool fall days had just turned to winter as the young weapon appraiser Emsee was rushing to complete his task in a hurry. He was about to send in his appraisal of yet another smith attempting to gain favor with the rulers of various holds in the knife kingdom, like many others before him... However on this day right as he was about to give his seal of approval in a room full of other members of the knife society what is known as the great Vosteed disengagement occured! Alas any chance the smiths of the great house Vosteed would be allowed to have their work grace the halls of the Knifen Lord would never occur after this happening, and therefore the seeds of a new war and rebellion had been planted, The young Emsee must defend himself with his accumulated knowledge of the blade as it was him that displayed the faults of the Vosteedian blades which meant their Assassins had already been dispatched to his home.. it is rumored they wield new high tech blades that purposefully disengage the lock by hitting the spine and the blades fly out at the speed of light like an electricity infused hyper plasma heat seeking boomerangs.
Armed with his favorite simple Opinel and with the truth of the blade, the young Emsee had set out and finally begun his pilgrimage from a cog in the knife machine to the great knifesaiah legends say he still exists in another form out there today.
Poor Vosteed can’t make a button lock no matter how much they try
Hope the next trend is adamentium blades. This button lock and ultem crap is getting old.
9/10 card slap not bad MC
Count me as another who doesn't buy button locks.
Please try some other cormorants. I have 2 & neither of them have the problem you keep talking about.
i literally beat the shit out of my mini thunderbird and it would not budge. i whacked the shit out of the spine (on the edge of a wood table) and it just would not fail. not sure if it's common with other ones but mine won't. same with my original thunderbird. i would be interested to see if others have the same issue as you
edit: i was concerned and instead of smacking the shit out of it on a bare table i put a phonebook type book and smacked the shit out of it and both of them failed when hit in a certain spot in a certain way. the original larger thunderbird failed more consistently
2nd edit: after toying around with it some more i noticed that the pivot screw was loose after whacking it so many times so i thought that might have been why. But after i locked it up with a torx i continued whacking it and now i can replicate the failure every single time on the 2nd whack when i hit it in the same spot (on the original larger thunderbird). if i whack it in a way that i stop it after it hits, it doesn't fail really. It fails when i whack it and follow through with the whack and make contact with the phonebook towards the tip of the spine (about 1/4 of the way behind the spine). I just tried it with the mini thunderbird and it fails in the same spot when i hit it the same way and it does it extremely consistently (pretty much every hit).
I'm disappointed forsure but then again i've used it a good amount and during normal use i've had 0 issues. i don't cut cardboard with my knives (I use a box cutter folder for that) so i can't speak on use for something like that. I do like how the button is more recessed than the original thunderbird. I carry in my right pocket but often use my left hand to cut things and there has been more than one instance where I accidentally pressed the button when cutting with the original thunderbird because of how much the button protrudes. Kind of a bummer cause those of use with these guaranteed won't be able to get our money back for our purchases nor will we get any sort of reimbursement
It's funny you mention wood or Styrofoam hitting the blade. Short story time.
Hmmwv and other military vehicle batteries are shipped dry, no acid in them. The acid ships separately in a plastic jug in the same box as the batteries. We had a shit load of batteries to fill so we just started taking all the batteries and jugs out and tossing the cardboard and Styrofoam off to the side. My motor Sargent walks in and starts busting our balls about the cardboard, I'm not sure how he ended up with his pocket knife out and me attacking him with a Styrofoam board but we got there. We were messing around, obviously. He lunged at me with a "have at yee" or whatever he said. I swatted at his knife with the Styrofoam and it disengaged the liner lock and it shut on his index finger. It messed him up pretty bad, I'm pretty sure he just Neosporined it and taped it up. I had to do a few pushups, it was worth it in the end. Mind you, all of this happened in like a 5 minute time span.
So that's an argument for why you want it to lock out securely.
vosteed buttons are poopoo...noted...I'm pretty over button locks as it is...
Bummer