The Arsenal Ticketing Debate: Ballots, "Tourist" and "Loyal” Fans and The Emirates Atmosphere
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- čas přidán 22. 11. 2023
- Arsenal Ticketing Debate Phone-In! | The Ballot System | Emirates Atmosphere Differences
Tom presents a daily show on The Gooner Talk covering all the latest Arsenal news, Arsenal transfer news, match reaction, press conferences and much more plus a Q&A session taking questions from the LIVE chat. Get all your Arsenal news now and every day. Links to Fantasy code, Twitter, Instagram, audio-only platforms, The Arsenal Way and our channel membership scheme including entry to the Discord community: linktr.ee/TheGoonerTalk - Sport
Big up Dylan and Benjamin for coming on and expressing opposing views without getting overly-heated about it. And kudos Tom for handling their arguments calmly and rationally and without losing your head like I was multiple times throughout listening 😅.
Fantastic show. (Mostly) great conversations. And a Happy Thanksgiving to all those who are celebrating. 🦃🍽️
TC channelling his inner James O’Brien - things you love to see ❤
Inspiration that obvious yeah? 😅
This has nothing to do with loyalty, every single person who suports Arsenal has voluntarily chosen to be a fan of the club over another, and this on its own is the definition of loyalty, hence everyone who is an Arsenal fan who has pledged their allegiance to the club is a loyal fan. What these people want to do is to quantify "loyalty" which cannot be done because how do you define loyalty in a quantitative way, how much you spend; how much time you sacrifice; how loud you sing; how many articles you write about the club; playing for the club; working at the club? You can see there is no way to quantify loyalty because there is no concensus on what it should be measured against. Rather what these people really want, whilst hiding behind a blanket term of loyalty, and is too embarrassed to admit is in fact priviledge. They want to be in a priviledged position that guarantees they get to go to games over others.
With regards to the dip in ground atmosphere I blame it on two things. The first one is dependency where I believe we rely too much on a group of people, such as the fantastic Ashburton Army as an example, to create an atmosphere on the ground. On the other hand if we can have engagement coming from anywhere in the stadium instead of from a selective group, it becomes more autonomous and will promote diversity which I think not only does it become more inclusive, but it also helps to build wider fan engagement with a view of sustainability in the long term. The only problem to get this to happen is how we're going to get there and I think this is where I think the club needs to get involved in driving the process, which comes to my second reason which is the club. I think the club has not done enough to promote and drive fan enegagement and atmosphere. Instead of relegating groups such as the Ashburton Army to less seats, how about we incorporate them into the working group that are part of the process of promoting fan engagement in the current structure, and in return we reward them for the service as a show of loyalty. I think the club needs to be more proactive when it comes to building ground atmosphere, something similar to the role of a conductor in an orchestra.
Ive sat next to Norwegian Arsenal fans at the Emirates and they were the loudest, most passionate fans i've seen. The English fans were quiet in comparison. So this guy is talking nonsense.
They love their Kronenberg 🍻👍
Very interesting show Tom and great to see different views of the situation. Even though I don't agree with Dylan's point of view, I can understand him. He was so passionate about Arsenal and that's great. But Arsenal is a global club and you can't really get around it. As a foreign fan I can't go to many games, but I try. ÖStersund in EL, Southampton last season and now I'm coming over in December for Brighton and Women's NLD. It's such a great time to be able to see Arsenal live and I don't wanna take that away from anyone! Doesn't matter if you live in North London or Australia. We are all fans and we support Arsenal every day.
I luv you handle yourself in arguments! Keep up the hard work Tom you're a Diamond 💎 Geezer!😅
Thanks mate
I have supported this club since mid 70s. Went to every home game, London aways regularly and every away ground at least once up until early 90s. Paying at the turnstiles. Then sky made it the PL. I got married, had kids, moved away. Became a "member"a few years later but cant get a ticket now. I sing, chant and shout my heart out when i do go via mates tickets. Im 57yrs old.
Love that Mark. Why do you think it is you can’t get a ticket?
@@TheGoonerTalkTV Not a season ticket holder, the cost of travel and tickets. Also can watch every game on tv for free. Would love to pick and choose though.
@@markharrison3096 wouldn’t we all. Nearly 300,000 members and only 4200 member seats per games will make that very difficult indeed
The current ballot is much better than trying online to get on the ticketing system like last season. That was impossible....just ridiculous. This season I have one ticket from the ballot... It works
Hat off to you Super Tom for keeping your cool head.
Very good show, glad i finally got to see it, there is no best solution, but i do think there should be a ' cooling off period ' if you are lucky to get a ticket and applying again. i feel for that guy who can't go as a family. Touts are our biggest enemy.
So if I score a ticket through the ballot, fly from Australia to London to watch the game in addition to getting up at midnight to 5am to watch Arsenal games for the last few years, I’m not worthy of that ticket? As the English say ‘What a load of bollocks!’
That’s the theory… doesn’t add up
@@TheGoonerTalkTVif the bloke you edited out was more frustrating than your first caller, he must have been a shocker!
Ah he was just abusive. Didn’t make any points. Was a 30 second clip if that.
@@TheGoonerTalkTV Well with Dylan and Benjamin you were more patient than I would have been with the xenophobic and bigoted arguments that were creeping into their arguments. I was going to call in but fell asleep (early hours). So I will try again next time.
100% agree and same boat as me but from New Zealand.
I live in Yorkshire, that's in England lmfao 😂😂😂if he was 9 he'd be a junior gunner then go to silver at the age 17 or 18 he's a liar 😂
Tom, My take on the ticket situation is, I want youngsters to be able to go who feel like I did when I first went.....It was magical and the more you went, the more you wanted to go. At 61 I pay my Silver membership and have a crack at the ballot, thats how I support the club , but going regularily for 40 odd years does become a way of life and it was but times change. Would I like to go more, yes of course. Just for posterity in the ground I am a singer and a quiet moaner but the way it used to be was giving the ref stick and banter to the away fans........that was half the fun.
Yeah I guess times do change especially when the interest goes up by several times the capacity.
Tom you get more like James O’Brien every day. That’s a good thing btw 😂! Amazing video
Oh it’s a good thing. He is my journalist idol tbf
As is shown throughout society there are a lot of people who are hyper-focussed on a perception of what they're losing out on. They create a narrative around being unfairly treated for nefarious reasons, often based on very little evidence, giving absolutely no thought to anyone else but themselves or those very close to them. There's a word for this: "entitlement". It breeds resentment which leads to "othering". You can't talk about what's fair without taking into account what's fair for others. Can we debate what's most fair for everyone? Sure. But immediately othering fans who aren't locals is just a bad faith argument and isn't overly helpful in fixing problems.
So my local club in norway is the club that raised Martin Ødegaard, does that give me a bigger right to watch Martin then other fans? How many of our players do u think we could have bought if no one abroad bought any shirts or anything else?
I regularly get club level seats through the Exchange..... There are always huge number of empty seats for every game. Season ticket holders who don't go or sell via the Exchange should have their season ticket removed. There is no excuse not to sell on the Ticket Exchange if you can't go
I collected 15 seat numbers from ticket sites for the Tottenham game that were for sale for £300 and upwards..... I sent them these actual seat numbers that were put up for sale. They write back to me saying it was against terms and conditions to buy tickets on such websites. They could have identified these 15 people who offered their tickets for sale and dealt with them ...but they didn't. The club don't care as long as they get the money
This guy Dylan is an 'I'm alright Jack'. I'm 59, been going since I was 4, spent my youth and early twenties going to EVERY game, Spartak Moscow in USSR, East Germany Magdeburg, Travel Club pre season coach tours.... Been there done that. I spent 12 years outside the country, now I'm back, I don't deserve to get a ticket because I haven't been when I was abroad? I was there in Moscow, Kiev, Baku...where was Dylan? He belittles those outside the country.... ridiculous!!!!
Whilst I get somebody like Dylan’s frustrations having been going for a long time and now not able to go as much as they would like. His points are invalid. At the end of the day, the only true priority you can gain is through a season ticket. I went on the season ticket waiting list at the age of 13 whilst we were at Highbury and did not get my season ticket until I was 28 in the emirates. The only issue is a demand and supply issue.
Only half an hour in and that Dylan is making me on edge. Saying left, right and centre that foreign fan groups shouldn't get as much allocation cause they 'go to the club shop'
I'm sorry, if I get an extremely rare opportunity to make a game, I'm going to be one of the loudest in the stadium. This genuinely feels like discrimination against foreign fans and I hope his perspective broadens to understand the club only is where it is in size because the game is global now.
Well done TC for keeping calm and representing all fans. ❤
And I still have respect to him for coming on and saying his views also, like most others back out. But God I wish he understood that these 'tourists' actually get up at 2am twice a week year after year to watch their team. Yes the odd fan might just be going to experience a sports game and may not follow the team closely, but that's a minority for sure.
Plus the argument of Arsenal caring more about money and getting overseas fans in cause they spend more at the shop is absolute bollocks. Season ticket holders will buy a kit, those going first time will buy a kit, those who live abroad and never go will buy a kit and get it sent. If I knew I was going to Arsenal later in the season, I either a) wouldn't wait to get a kit, would just order from the club online, or b) wait to get it at the shop. Either way, the clubs made the same amount.
None of his arguments have any logic behind them in the slightest.
Me and my son went for 2 tickets 3 times on the ballet system and were unsuccessful ilive in Islington and have been going games since Highbury the ballet system stinks
I’m not sure that where you live is relevant. Everyone who wants to buy a ticket deserves an equal chance.
And in fairness, even if it wasn’t a ballot system, there’s a high chance you’d be unsuccessful on the old system anyway.
Obviously people have a somewhat of a say where they decide to live when they grow up but I don’t feel like some UK fans really truly know or appreciate how lucky and privileged they are to be born near these amazing clubs.
No one chooses where they’re born mate
So Benjamins dad is a proper “fan” not a supporter?? Just contradicted himself I’ve got lucky in 1 ballot, I live in Scotland but am definitely not a tourist, everyone deserves a chance for a ticket
Helgi Freyr is pure wholesomeness.
That was an absolutely WILD take from my man Dylan 😂
Good debate but it highlights the bad attitude of a lot of people we have in society. One group of fans is not more deserving than another. Living close to the ground does not make you a more loyal fan. The ballot system is the best yet to tackle the touting it's not a perfect system but it's fair AFC Dylan, I understand you want a better atmosphere, but your attitude is WRONG and you're not doing yourself any favours carrying on like that. The club needs to find initiatives for Match Day to improve the atmosphere without prioritising certain groups through ticket allocations.
I have paid hundreds of pounds for a single ticket online and been the only fan thats singing and shouting around me. Its just so sad.
Dylans spot on. If the game is done, either win or loss, locals will leave early in order to get to the bar, out that night or just looking forward to next game. A tourist will stay to get the most out of their once a season trip.
Yeah… that’s the only reason they’re staying till the end… I recommend listening to our final caller
Lee story is sad and so typical of the way our club is run now
@@markharrison3096 cheers bruv appreciate that
@@-Gooner76-I feel for you. I go to games and can't sit with family or friends. It's 💩
@@markharrison3096 yeah it's shit cause our autistic son needs a carer to be with him,so if only 1 of us can sit with him,we can't leave him to get drinks,food or toilet break,bit of a mare,hopefully the club will change things soon
LETS BUILD A BIGGER STADIUM
Mad gatekeeping Dylan
Intriguing show. Strange to hear from your first guest that discrimination is not ok…..however, if it benefits the ‘local’ fan that makes a bit more noise then that’s alright then. I live an hour outside London and go to a handful of games throughout the season but I give a lot of credit and respect to Arsenal fans all over the globe. I’m not sure I’d be waking up at 3am week in and week out to watch all of our games. I really don’t like the idea of tickets for fans being awarded on a loyalty basis that essentially makes it a closed shop. The ballot method is a lot fairer to all and is the way moving forward.
I'm struggling with the concept that some fans are more deserving than others. Arsenal are a big club, in no small way, due to international support. To hear "everyone can't have the same chance, it's not fair" is oxymoronic. That said, the atmosphere undoubtedly has an impact on results. Throw touts and the Ashburton Army allocations into the mix and this is a hard nut to crack.
Edit: I actually do believe that halving the allocation to the Ashburton Army is a mistake, 50 out of 17,000 tickets won't dramatically reduce the chances of landing a ticket.
The atmosphere is an interesting one because Man City are notorious for having one of the worst atmospheres in the league
@@TheGoonerTalkTV Yes, it's hard to quantify but look at the Cop and St. James' Park. I'm not going to argue against atmosphere playing a role in results.
Kop
@@markharrison3096 Thanks Mark. These crazy views are frying my brain.
Ashburton army definitely helps the atmosphere and should be encouraged .
This guy Ben is contradicting himself at every turn
Yeah Dylan was wild - so wrong
I hate modern football. Most players and most fans
Good afternoon TGT friends
Also Tom I nearly unsubscribed as you gave that Benjamin prat way to much air time what a clueless bunch of people you have had on.
You should never be closed to hearing various opinions. Especially when they’re being challenged
I really don’t know what this guy is talking about.
I have been going to Highbury since 1996 just before wenger it was easy to get tickets as we became successful match day tickets became difficult to get.
Being a silver member apart from this season I was only able to get tickets to
Carabo cup games last season by 1010 all tickets are sold out so who’s getting these tickets? Tickets go on sale at 1000 This season I have been to four games through the ballot system. I have been in the clock end twice being 5ft9 with everyone standing up you can’t see the game if you’re allocated seats in the front rows
What is it you’re disputing?
I am in favour of the ballot system and the fact that silver members are long term supporters
Ah okay. You made that tricky to grasp ahah all good 🤝
I have no valid opinion as I am not a 'proper' fan. Reason being I now only seldomly go.
When I was going home and away some time ago (so therefore held a valid opinion,) my opinion was that every Arsenal fan was equal no matter where they come from and how often they came.
That belief lead me to boycott Arsenal in the early 90's because I was disgusted with their attempt to introduce a bond scheme for the new North Bank which was financially way out of reach for many of our supporters. I believed Arsenal should be an open shop for everybody.
My moral compass has cost me dearly as I've been demoted to a 'tourist' supporter
Only in the eyes of fans who are wrong Steve
I am exactly the same mate.
This guy saying not all fans are equal is wild. Every Arsenal fan should be able to get a ticket. Stop it with that nonsense talk, very selfish and weird behaviour to think like that. Some people just like to complain and don’t want fans at the game. Weird weird weird thinking
The issue is debating this with is he is very friendly with most of the American supporters groups so he won’t say a bad word against them and the same with the club he gets in the press box so do you really think he’s gonna talk bad about the club ?????i used to like tgt but it’s a load of rubbish now toms just offended by anything said and he’s trying to be like piers Morgan “ do you condemn xenophobia “ sort of vibe
What a load of old tosh
@@TheGoonerTalkTV so is it not factual that you are very friendly with the American supporters groups( you know the ones with the scarfs behind you) or is not factual that you are in the press box most games ????????? It’s all very well trying to act like a lbc host but ‘tosh’ ???? What have i said that isn’t factual ???????
The fact that either of my friendliness with some American supporter clubs or my job impacts my opinion and criticism.
You just sound like a paranoid conspiracist. LBC host? I’ll take that a a compliment, big up James O’Brien
Simple fix don't sell tickets B4 game day scrap all off it
Not at all. If I want to plan a trip from abroad I just have to hope I get a ticket on the day?
This guy is a joke who the he'll does he think he is I've been going to Arsenal game's since I was 5 at Highbury as my dad mum and granddad had season tickets. So went all my life home and away but I've lived in Sydney Australia for 12 years so does that mean I don't deserve a ticket cause i aint been goin the last few year's. And i can guarantee that me alone at a arsenal game would out sing him and his mate's all together. These are the fan's who have no clue just enjoy goin and stop talking shit
The privilege from Ben is mad!
The whole Arsenal system is a joke. There are still bots who sweep up tickets. The ticket exchange system is screwed. The atmosphere has gone down no doubt one due to the capacity of the AA army reduced which is a big factor but second of all people to expect us to win now. Once we get to the grandcourse end of the season the atmosphere will be loud to help our boys bring it home
What would be your solution Aleena?
@TheGoonerTalkTV 1) The club need to look deeper. Too many memberships being gifted out. A limit on them.
2) They need to stop ticket touting on other 3rd party illegal websites
3) A window for people to buy in. First access is to silver members
@@aleenakhan2474 But there’s already close to 300,000 memberships?
@TheGoonerTalkTV Well that's the clubs fault and shows how they are incompetent and incapable of keeping a handle of things
@@TheGoonerTalkTV it's like having 2000 students when the school site can only hold 900
And the final caller summed up the issue with American supporters frank went from supporting La galaxy to supporting Nashville fc and he was talking about loyalty WOW American sports tickets are in general sale and guess what they have the worst atmospheres going I went to watch Brooklyn nets play a few years back and all their fans were excited about was le bron (a rival player) to the point where they cheered his every point he made
The worst atmospheres in Europe are Barca and man united and guess what they are the highest tourist visited stadiums even Liverpool fans now say their famous atmosphere has been ruined by tourist fans that would rather film the match on their iPad than watch and get involved American sports fans are the laughing stock please don’t let them kill our sport aswell…..Tom once you’re press pass is no longer and you can’t go to games you may feel different but I doubt that as you know the 💰 comes from twerking for you’re wide range of tourist fans
Would love if you came on the show. I know you won’t, but as Keegan would say… I’d luv it!
@@TheGoonerTalkTV I will 100% come on the show can I do that with just an iPhone if yes then I’d love to come on and debate you no disrespect to the other 2 you had on they were good but I’m 41 seen arsenal in 11 countries and 95% of grounds in England so you’re O’Brien stance won’t work with me let me know when I can come on and we can ‘talk a few things out’ I eagerly await the invite 👍🏻
Okay drop me a DM on social media and we can sort it out.
@@TheGoonerTalkTV sweet 👍🏻
Mad gatekeeping Dylan