Dave Penzer on: did Vince Russo's ideas harm WCW?
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
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I can't wait to hear Chris Jericho say the exact same stuff about Tony Khan in a few years
Jericho is very smart, he only looks out for Jericho.
@@johnnymedrano7081exactly
@@johnnymedrano7081 Jericho has made a fortune from failing to draw a dime for AEW.
Gotta admire that
Not happening. Kid Khan will have them all under NDAs
Jericho is great at sucking the life out of young guys.
It was an insane time for WCW. Russo was setting up the Goldberg vs Hart rematch and Bret gets the career ending concussion and Goldberg forgot that a human can't punch throw a limo window, so he was out for months.
I’m sorry, I was under the impression that the WWF creative team was Pritchard, Cornette and Russo, then Pritchard got reassigned, then Cornette escaped to Louisville, so how long was Taylor working with Russo?
Y’all stretching truths a bit too much imo. All of you.
A hot angle or story wasn't saving WCW. The top executives already were planning an exit strategy.
I listen to Russo quite often, and I have heard him say out of his own mouth that he was solely responsible for the Attitude Era. While Russo certainly contributed, he was not solely responsible. Most of the top guys in WWE at that time were already established before Russo got there. Kane was the only top guy during that period that Russo took part in creating. Russo also neglects to mention the fact that Cornette, JR, Pat Patterson, and ultimately Vince McMahon were also part of that creative process. He managed to convince the people at WCW that he was solely responsible for WWE's success, and they gave him too much control. He didn't have the filter, nor the young stars that he had in WWE, and it turned into a shitshow.
Rey mysterio and konan in the invasion would've been insane
the invasion = a crowd of wrestlers.
Konnan was never on Rey’s level.
@@BenGetItIn he was a better choice then Shawn stasiak 🤣
@@Sheldenn98 right lmao
Another aspect of why Russo filed in WCW was the fact that there was no clear leader. In WWE, people did what Vince McMahon told them to do. If Russo wrote a storyline where a top guy was working with a mid card guy and McMahon told them to do it, then they did it. In WCW, guys had the ability to refuse to do what Russo wrote, and that lack of leadership in WCW was part of that equation.
Disco knows Russo was great in WWE because Russo told him so.
If Russo had a dancing gimmick, WCW would still be alive today.
dumb
Vince Russo thought that writing WCW was just as easy as writing for the WWF even if the company had too many Generals and not enough Soldiers or the talent had contract control ,yeah right
I think Russo's personality is a big part of why people rag on him so much. He is very abrasive, and it not humble at all. He is the first to take credit for his successes, and the last to accept responsibility for his failures. He is an easy person to dislike, and an easy person to place the blame on.
Jeff Jarrett did two incredible podcast episodes about how Vince Russo had all of this stuff planned in later 99 and by March 2000 everything he planned had to be dropped. Sucks.
Jarrett has never drawn a penny
@@marcbasila dime
Could you name the the Episode that Jarrett speaks on Russo's WCW run? I couldn't find the ep.
@@pheo1418 i can't, sorry.
I love how Konnan looked out for everyone
The show was good when disco was not talking
Maybe next time Disco will let the guests speak before he starts Russo’s defense case.
He knows his role and DOESN'T shut his mouth.
I wish Konnan would get a new cohost
This clip is why you guys can't get guest: why do you think people would want to waste time coming on here just for Disco to talk over them?
And stutter and stumble over his words
Taking the masks off the lucadores was a mistake. I'm not a Vince Russo guy. He's made up north. WCW was built on Southern traditional matches and fueds. I do give Russo credit, though, for building Scott Steiner to a legit draw and Booker T as champion. However, too many incidents like Mike Awesome big chick thriller. When dude was a killer in ECW.
If Russo such a great writer what happen to him in TNA? Why didn’t he take them to the next level ? If he’s really that hot that good he would of help them
Connan stands on business no matter what...calls a spade a spade always salute to him 4 that
isn't it weird how in WCW the wrestlers had creative control put into their contracts yet in AEW to get creative control all you have to do is let Tony Khan hug you in public.
😂😂😂😂😂
Ik disco is hanging around vince to much cause hes saying bro to much
Jesus Cjrist Disco! Vince Russos ideas were filtered through several people at WWE, including Vince McMahon. Vince Russo did not have free reign at WWE
WWE started beating WCW because they were in the unique position of having ten different top guys peaking at the same time. Michaels, HHH, Stone Cold, Rock, Undertaker, Foley, and even Chris Jericho were established in those personas before Russo started writing for them. Russo can certainly take credit for what he did with the mid and lower cards guys because he managed to get a lot of them over, but I think WWE would have eventually taken over even if Russo wasn't there. If Russo was as responsible as he claims to be, then he should have had no trouble replicating it in WCW, and WWE should have fallen apart. It didn't. It continued trouncing WCW even after Russo left.
Austin - McMahon feud is what worked in the attitude era plus The Rock and The Undertaker characters are what the attitude era was. It wasn’t the writers, in my opinion
it was the writers. 100% of the characters on tv had a storyline and all of the stories were entertaining
@@kpimkpim349it was definitely the writers, but that bs would not fly for too long, and it attracted the wrong type of attention and crowds and basically ruined wrestling for forever
@@ZBR_ProXP the attitude era ruined wrestling by bringing the wrong crowd (the average person)?
@@kpimkpim349 no, it was the average person who was tuned in when NWO and Austin were red hot. It was mainstream cool. So many of those t-shirts everywhere. Fast forward a couple years later, and it was a Jerry Springer crowd, there for the tits and ass, the nu metal, and the trashy storylines. I was a teenager then. I watched as it went from cool to an embarrassment, QUICKLY.
@@kpimkpim349 Right. Anyone who acts like the writing had nothing to do with it. Don't know what they're talking about.
No one, not one big talent has ever credited Russo with their success.
Russo has always been Crash TV Jerry Springer bullshit
Disco, as usual, is missing a few huge variables. Vince had Steve Austin, Taker, HHH, Mick, and Rock all in their prime. He had WWE’s connections and production. He had Vince McMahon to filter out the bad stuff. As soon as that was taken away, Russo showed how dependent he was on all those variables.
Here's where I disagree with Disco, I know that he's trying to defend his friend but the FACT is that Russo in the WWF had another Vince who had the final say so. Once he got to WCW, HE had the final say so and we all saw what happened there as well as in TNA. Also, people DON'T mention that it was the TEAM of Russo and Ferrara in the WWF and once Vince played politics and moved Ed out into a lesser role in WCW, well we saw the results there and later.........TNA.
Russo didn't have the final word in TNA. And he only has the final word in WCW for 3 months. But people love to act like he did cause neither were as successful as when he was in WWE. If you want to say VKM had final say in WWE. Then do the same for TNA and WCW
@@kevinlee9929 VKM had final say over EVERYTHING in WWE all the way to the end. Russo had the final say for 3 months in WCW and got sent home because it wasn't working. In TNA he had the final say and was cosigned by Double J which caused the rift between Jeff and his dad Jerry not to mention once he got into Dixie's ear when they moved to Orlando.
@@korywilliams1856 He got sent home cause guys like Hogan and Flair complained about him. And he didn't have final say in TNA. Jeff Jarrett did. And after Jarrett it was Bischoff and Hogan.
Vince having the final say after Ruthless Aggression (which was a continuation of Russo's ideas) was consistently bad television.
Great podcast, Awesome interview.
Great show
Something I noticed is that Russo never gives anybody else credit on his success in the WWF. He always basically say "it was me and Ed Ferrera" but then you learn that this and that wasn't him and so forth. He was writing but he wasn't putting the matches together, he was not a deciding factor on who was pushed or not. There were a few decison makers, the most important one being Vince McMahon. And they had a great talent relation in JR. Not to mention great producton values. He had none of those things in WCW and it exposed him. So maybe his stories were never that good in the first place. BTW he did not come up with the Stone Cold phenomena. He did not create Golddust, it was all Vince McMahon.
This is a bold face LIE
Penzer plays leap frog with T.Khan and Pritchard.
i want to defend Vince Russo over the nWo 2000 stuff.
I've seen him do a shoot interview in which he stated that his plan was to do a Hulk Hogan vs nWo feud which would have given us a year of Hogan vs Jarrett, Nash, Hall, Steiner and end it with Hulk Hogan vs Bret Hart.
it's really not his fault that the angle would rapidly be cursed with career ending injuries and the like.
So what was the plan? Hogan beats everyone of those guys in the year 2000? 😂
@@scottdecowski4913ironically a few years later Hogan would be the Last WWF Champion before it was changed to wwe 😐
Can you reference the shoot? Second, he sent Hogan home after Halloween Havoc '99, just when was he planning on bringing Hogan back? The angle he had was a shoot angle between Hogan and the Powers That Be.
Splitting up hall and nash hurt big time. Also for those who think beating Goldberg was an issue, he never drew anything. The big crowds were already there before him. I remember hearing the chants and nobody was chanting it meaning it was pumped in through the speakers and just look at the crowd when nash beat him, huge pop. Russo didnt help with his stupid matches and wanting to push Jeff Jarrett. Jarrett being on top lets you know the territory is dead. I like him but he's always been a true midcarder not a top guy.
Nash was insanely over at the time, nobody wants to remember that
The creative team was , Vince , Russo, and Cornette. Then Ed came
Finally someone said something that who was on the booking room Prichard can’t tell you nothing cause around the time Russo got on creative he was in the office in talent relations before Jr got the job cornette even said that Vince had to filter everything so it wouldn’t be like Jerry springer cornette left or got replaced with ed then Prichard came back to the fold a little after or he was there partially
@@tyoliver4802 right. Cornette has also read vince russo' s notes from different meetings. Everyone always said McMahon had to filter his ideas
NWO 2000 got so messed up with injuries, it's not like Russo personally planned for so many people to get hurt so badly.
I'm tried of seeing Russo get bashed for stuff he couldn't control.
Why was it called nWo 2000? It was the 2000th reunion? But no Hogan?
Russo's success history is fairly simple. 2 years of filtered hot shot booking in WWE followed by 15 years of atrocious garbage and 10 years begging for a job
100% accurate
I can’t stand Disco constantly defending Russo. The guy has had ZERO success since leaving WWF.
Best TNA booker. Best WWE writer. His WCW stuff, if televised today (Viagra on a pole) would be the best thing on TV other than the Rock in the last 5 years.
Hahahahahaha! Hilarious
Not to mention WWF wrestlers were motivated towards success because they didn't have guaranteed contracts like those in WCW. When you get paid the same either way, suddenly ratings, buy rates, attendance isn't your problem.
Vince was booking at the highest points in ratings in both WWE and TNA. He also wasnt booking during the time of "Duke the Dumpster"....
Russo was awful in WCW.
Who was the booker in 1995-6?
Russo doesn't even want a job in wrestling! He say it a lot. Almost like he's trying to convince himself.
Everyone said Vince McMahon filtered everything Russo wrote JR Bruce Prichard Jim Cornette etc
Penzer sounds like hes a Sullivan guy.
maybe it's because i was such a mark for it back when I was a kid but i really would have loved to have seen how Russo's plans for nWo 2000 would have worked out. Didn't he say that the plan was to do Hogan vs nWo?
It doesn’t matter what the ratings were in the short term
Woah thebfilthy animals matches was some od the sbest parts of later wcw
Russo is 100% right about the wrestling bubble.
But yet he is still in it himself because he talks about wrestling
@@danielsims916"When the atm keeps spitting out 20s you don't walk away!"-Kevin Nash on one of the Kayfabe Commentaries videos.
@@poppy87 I get that but it’s hypocritical that Russo can say he hates the wrestling industry but he keeps talking about it . That’s like me saying i don’t like chocolate cake but yet I will always eat chocolate cake
how long was Scott Hall in this version of the nWo? didn't he get fired early into 2000?
Not long, but yes, he did get fired.
Is the sky blue?
I heard a young figure by the name of Tony Khan was in the ear of Russo giving him "ideas"
"They wanted his money, but they didn't want his 'idears'".
- Tony Atlas
Vince russo goldberg off the script storyline is what made me say "ok!! Wcw wont be good for a while i should stick to wwe " then he tried recreating booker t into rock 2.0 the book?? ....juvi as the juice was atleast funny but common how original..i understand they were budget cuts but man those stories were aweful
It was a combination of all of it
I think Russo was booker could have worked if he just gave ideas instead of being the booker.
Gotta respect Penzer for admitting he may have been too hard on Russo.
No respect for Konan such a fake friend to Russo.
@wallrads
Friends keep it real and tell you when you're fucking up. If you cheat on your wife you're friend tells you
''Dude, WTF are you thinking cheating on your wife?" I like Russo, but he made some very stupid ass decisions in WCW. He shouldn't have even put himself of TV because they had a roster stacked w/ future HOF wrestlers. Hogan, Hall, Nash, Hart, Sting, Flair, The Steiners, Booker, Goldberg, Macho, Perfect, Jarrett, Sid, Luger, Rey ect. He should have kept his ass where a writer belongs. In the writers office, booking a decent show, rather than throwing shit at the wall to see if it would stick. It made since for Vince M. To be on TV. It made none for Vince Russo to be. All K Dog did was keep in 100 and anyone w/ a lick of logic knows that.
Vince Russo gave Bill Goldberg vs Scott Steiner, that was one of the best feuds of 2000 in any wrestling company. Those matches still hold up well.
He also created the "Goldberg doesn't follow the script" storyline. Give me a break.
@@vincesmith2499 your nose or your jaw?
It's not hard to get better ratings when you have the roster WWF had in the late 90s. I respect DI for sticking up for his friend, but he's regurgitating everything that Russo told him. In return, that makes his statement subjective. The truth is probably somewhat in the middle. Russo needed a filter. That filter was McMahon. When he didn't have a filter, we had many storylines in WCW, under Russo, that were garbage. Penzer is right. WWE Russo was different than WCW Russo.
austin himself has said russo was big part of his and the wwf success
you know what was so messed up about the nWo stuff? Russo tried to reform it AGAIN later in 2000 with him, Nash, Steiner & Jarrett as members.
Yep, Russo was in the nWo.
The wwf continued to be successful without Russo. Disco gives this clown too much credit
WWE
@@mrbc2435 it was wwf back when Russo left dork
Vince Russo didn’t do anything for the WWF/E. Stealing ECW’s
entire premise line by line, the whole thing, is what launched the Attitude era. Go back and watch it yourself, they became ECW in an arena and that’s how they bounced back in the Monday Night Wars.
BAD Disco Inferno
WCW 2000 was wack af but the NWO 2000 wasn't a bad idea, it was just bad timing and unfortunate circumstances ex. Bret getting career ending injury, Hall getting fired etc. Etc.
It was a bad idea. An nWo group without Hogan is not the nWo.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 Also with Jeff freaking Jarrett in it! lol
@@johnnyskinwalker4095even Jeff Jarrett overrated self looks cool standing next to Nash, Steiner and Bret. 😂
@@louio Naa he felt completely out of place. He's a hillbilly. nWo are supposed to be cool.
Bring Ed on the show
Supposedly, Russo wanted OJ Simpson to come on WCW and take a lie detector. Now you may be asking yourself, "wtf does that have to do with wrestling?" My answer is i have no idea, but the ratings would've probably been... "KILLER!"
Duke “The Dumpster” Drose was NOT a Russo creation. If anything, that was more of a Cornette creation. Because HE was on the creative team in the WWF in 1995.
Duke in his shoot interview with Hannibal said he already had the garbage man gimmick on the Florida indies, before he went to WWF.
Bullcrap
No Russo had Hacksaw Jim Duggan become a janitor which was as bad.
He didn’t say he was, just used it as an example of a bad idea
So Russo claims credit for creating stars and driving the success of the WWF, Disco repeats whatever Russo tells him, but Russo can't create equally big stars in WCW or in TNA or in that christian wrestling company in Utah that he wrote for? Isn't the most logical conclusion that Russo is full of sh*t and he rode on the success of big stars (like Austin and the Rock), rather than creating stars?
The only thing Russo is good at is taking credit for things... as Cornette recently put it: Russo had about 2.5 yrs of success with a ton of help and sucked for 20 yrs after that, but still talks like his entire career was that 2.5 yr run
Yet, Dixie Carter didn't learn anything from WCW hiring Vince Russo when she hired him in TNA
Russo was TNA before Dixie ever got in the picture
No Vince McMahon to tell him no
Russo didn't have creative control in WCW, many people were telling him no
I guess they went out of Business
0:35
penZer buries RUSSO for book sales
Disco really believes that Russo turned wwe around??? He believes his tna run was a success???
Everybody agreed that having Flair and Hogan as your main guys in 1999/2000 wasn't the way to go and they had to give the younger guys a chance, Russo had a plan to write the older guys off TV to let the younger guys become main eventers and then would have the older guys return and get together to face the younger guys. How is that bad? Just let it play out.
The older guys like Flair bitched and moaned about it after 2 weeks and Russo got 3 months before they changed stuff. JJ Dillon and Sullivan got what they wanted and tanked the company even further in the months that Russo wasn't writing.
These are the facts, every metric tanked before Russo got there, it stabilized and when Russo left again in tanked even more
Disco just cut everybody off constantly. That was horrible.
Lmfao Disco is absolutely delusional in this clip. Terry Taylor was not on the WWF's writing team. It was Russo, McMahon, Pat Patterson, and Jim Cornette. Vince Russo is a hack. The only reason his ideas succeeded in the WWF is because he had an over abundance of all time top talent who could take his shitty ideas and make them work.
Hell yes putting the world title on himself and his actor fiend was terrible. The missed blood spit on nadh was horrible how do miss a guy who 7ft over 200 pounds 😂
This Dave Penzer guy was just an announcer. Hes a nobody.
Yup
Konnan is a fake friend to Russo.
Disco talk nonsense
I give Russo all the credit in the world. Only people who have a stick up their ass about pro wrestling hate him. I thought his WCW runs were great. No, not everything worked, but it might have IF everyone jumped on board rather than fighting him tooth and nail. The injuries too. By the time Russo got there in Oct 99, WCW was already bleeding profusely. The summer or 99 was absolutely bruuutal, minus one or two things. Watching Hogan’s slow babyface turn was the only thing worthwhile. When Russo got there, the shows became exponentially more entertaining, more dramatic, and more comedic.
You can’t argue with his numbers… WWE and TNA BOTH enjoyed their highest ratings eras when Russo had the pencil. It’s a shame the way he’s been blackballed. As far as I know, he’s the only person who never got to come home to a hero’s welcome in WWE. I mean, even Hellwig got to… LOL. I don’t think Vince McMahon, or the people running it now, want to admit that the creative prowess from the attitude era came from anyone other than a McMahon… or Prichard lol. 🤷🏾♂️
Russo is an idiot. He proved it in WCW. WCW was HORRIBLE under his leadership.
Russo was NOT the brains behind the Attitude Era. End of story. WWE was great even after Russo left.
@@vincesmith2499 No offense, but that’s among the dumbest takes I’ve heard regarding pro wrestling in a long time. Before the attitude era, WWE was “crushing it” with The Goon, TL Hopper, Bastion Booger, Knuckleball, Mantaur, and Duke The Dumpster Drosse. They even had Austin as Dibiase’s lackey, and Rocky Maivia the corny white meat babyface that no one liked… 😂🤦🏾♂️. McMahon literally called Russo to his office with all his creative stooges in attendance, told them that their ideas sucked, Russo’s ideas as the editor of Raw Magazine were better, and appointed him head of creative. Then, almost instantly, their shows became more entertaining, ratings went up, and within 12 months, they went from losing the ratings war significantly, to winning significantly, and never looked back in the war with WCW. WWE’s ratings have slowly declined after they rode those storylines out for a year or so. They had about 7-8 million viewers in the Russo era, and have slowly dropped to what they are now, which is about 1.5 million. None of that can be denied. Pull up their ratings history chart and look for yourself.
Yeah Russo's version of WCW was horrible. The more input the worse it was.
Vince Russo needs to be protected at all costs!
The only reason people hate russo is because of cornette's big mouth
Russo's work speaks for itself. The guy arranged the Braw For All just to get payback on Bradshaw, and a bunch of dudes got injured. He is a genuine clown. And oh yeah, let's not forget him putting the WCW world title on himself and making himself a main character, despite literally nobody asking to see MORE of Vince Russo on their TV saying "bro" after every other word.
Russo's time in TNA along with his comments in various forums including on Twitter have also led people to hate him because he makes himself look like a clown.
No, it's because Russo is so transparently insecure and an obviously lier.
Russo, at least as much as anyone else, is also responsible for wcw's collapse
It's between guys like Meltzer and Cornette. Alot of people just repeat what they say like sheep.
Vince Russo will go into the HOF long before you
Vince Russo did not have final say over the creative in WCW yet he gets the entire blame for it, even on stuff he wasn't writing.
Exactly. Same thing with TNA. But neither were as successful as his time in WWF. So people have no problems putting all of the blame on him. If they don't want to give him credit for his time in WWF. Cause VKM was the boss Then keep that same energy for TNA and WCW.
That's how horrible he is
Vince wants all the credit for everything that went right in the WWF, but he can't take any of the negative. Russo came in and changed literally everything about WcW overnight and it is absolute trash. You want all the glory bro, you need to be man enough to take the blame when you shit the bed too bro.
@@Former_Employee hey AEW mark
i like how disco defends thats a first
vince russo and gives valid points