What you said at 11:55 is damn near poetic. I’m a designer and only into music production as a hobbyist but what I learn from people like you in so many ways applies to design. Very well said!
Used Ableton religiously for 8 years and never knew there was mastering presets chains. Definitely wont be starting now , but consider me educated, thanks man!
this is the only video I've been able to find about this and it's what I needed to hear. not messing with any of the stock master racks anymore. it was also interesting to see the glue comp when you expanded the rack. as lite doesn't come with the glue this makes me think it's buried in some of those racks. 12 lite has some wavetable presets so it's probably similar.
thank youuu!!!! way down the road in my ableton journey and ended up here with the guy who taught me the first things I learned about the program through a random google search about mastering. pretty neat!! I just learned about mastering chains and it didn't quite seem like the right choice.
When I mix into a limiter I make sure that I don’t get more than 5 dB of gain redux. This enables me to level the mix without distorting. When I turn it off I’m typically saving 3-6db of headroom and I’m very confident in my mixes
I actually use the neutral mastering rack and make sure the multi band compression acts only within 0.5 dB and the limiter as well. It doesn't change the nature of the mix and makes sure you get a decently loud mix. I mainly produce demos, I think I deliver better mixes that way.
Hey, I'm a total mastering noob. Sound design is getting better, so I have this track where I used Ableton's "Analog Warmth' mastering chain on the Master channel, looked at the spectrum, did a lil eq there. To my ears it sounds good, I think it looks good as well but as I said I'm a mastering noob. I always leave more then plenty of headroom in the mix. To my opinion it's good. But I wonder what a mastering engineer might say.. I was very confident about until I had seen this video..
I really don't know much about music production. Getting the mix done and prepared before mastering and especially before letting stuff hit a limiter hard seems like a great takeaway. I'm finding it hard to accept the message about throwing out all these nifty looking racks, though. It seems like the point of racks is to map the main controls that you are likely to use onto knobs, no? I consider everything in Ableton to be just a starting point, and then you create your own presets, and even your own presets are just for saving time - it doesn't mean you're not going to have to add or delete effects. I never thought the point of racks was to save you from understanding what's in them, I thought it was just for convenience. I can 100% believe the statement that there isn't one perfect chain order, even for a give style. For sure, you've got me onside for that. But I find it really hard to believe that there aren't popular chain orders and common knobs to focus on. Please help me understand why I should stay away from Mixing & Mastering racks and treat them like "garbage". Like I said, I really am completely new at this and just here to learn. I come from a coding background, and when I see these racks, I see them as something akin to free software - in other words something powerful to both learn from and build on.
I love your honest approach, and more than that I love 'why' educators. The seemed almost like a debunking video, which is cool, made me wonder about that whole 'pink noise mastering' thang, I assumed it was more of a quick ballpark thing you would fine tune specific to the mix, but an interesting thing nonetheless and a next vid idea for you, cuz I'd watch it :)
Ha. I didn’t even know Ableton had mixing and mastering racks. I don’t look at or use a lot of what comes with Ableton ( beyond basic effects and drumkits) I probably should explore more. i used to make my own chains with stock effects, adjusting to track mix. and now i use my own favorite plugins from various third party vendors. My chains are standard to my template with everything turned off and adjust as needed.I add my limiter to my master as the final step. Im still trying to understand how it works. I often use ozone and run the mix through it to recommend settings. I then go back and turn off some devices and adjust to taste.. i also have a stock eq and limiter on every track in my templates. Those limiters are set to a minimum and i do a lot of gain-staging but are there as a just in case I’m hitting levels too hard.
bro I really appreciate the information, I just ask for normal controls in that webinar video so I can rewind or fast forward, I wanted take some notes but I can't.. is that how your course is too?
that wont change the squashed dynamics. if you put the utility in the front after squashing your sound you have already affected it. you are lowering the volume but the sound is altered..
@@KMcirca82 But if you add the utility before the mastering preset, then you should be able to adjust it to an appropriate gain before it hits the preset?
@@SeedtoStage The only preset racks I recommend are racks for a specific purpose, like a vocal delay rack with a bunch of complex delays for vocals or the widely known phat rack (by virtual riot) which makes hard bass sounds incredibly fat with saturation and compression. Racks should never replace knowing what you are doing but only assist, because blindly using a rack like that doesnt actually get you good results. thats just my two cents on the topic
Im kind of confused why do don't use -6dB and 0dB amplitudes instead of a digitally distroted signal - which of course will sound worse. Thats not about gain dependend behavior of a plugin (but that is a thing, tho) ...also an EQ is not a linear effect, but linear EQs in specific exist :D nice effort
Linearity of gain vs linearity of EQ are 2 entirely different things. Linearity of EQ is referring to the tiny changes in waveform phase timing which can cause unintended eq results. Linearity in gain dependent effects like compression and distortion mean that different signal levels at input will create nonlinear or dynamic results.
In case you aren't doing so already, you would need some decent speakers or headphones (not laptop/phone/cheap earbuds) to get a clear representation of the sound. It won't just knock you over the head, but the difference is there. I did notice more when he matched the volume; I agree the initial louder version mostly only sounded louder, but there were traces of distortion; but in the matched version, it comes out sort of thin and plastic sounding
Hey guys, what differences hear btwn mix 1 and mix 2 at same level after compression?, apart from "squashed", I mainly feel a low-end lost and unpleasant bright distortion in the wooble lead, and maybe a bright reduction of the dynamics overall, drums and that kind of "sparkles" sounds remain all the same. Just testing my new headphones and want to know opinions, good video 👍
I learned the basics of mastering in about an hour. There's great tutorials on here. Definitely not great at it but I know what to do for the most part.
These look like cool little racks to be able to throw on to a track and tweak a little. I was really wondering if it's supposed to be used on a master channel or a single instrument track? If anyone knows let me know.
@@SeedtoStage heard. At least they taught me to put my limiter after my compressors from now on. I wasn't positive how you should typically use the limiter.
Hmmm, the phase shifts of the multiband compressor in the master sucks the charisma out of your track imo. I'd rather compress the low frequencies within a separate kick/bass bus to avoid that.
Seed to Stage Yep, same here. But as time goes on I ask myself more and more: What the heck do I want to change in the master that I didn't hear or couldn't do in the mix?
@@alexhormann8931 Yeah but there are really good reasons to have mixbus effects vs track inserts in certain cases such as the push and pull that various mix elements have on each other when mixbus compressed create glue and cohesion if used lightly.
Seed to Stage Yes, exactly. But did you ever try to compress via send/return? Tow sends, one for the signal and one for the sidechain input. The compressor itself sits in a return track in a rack with a parallel phase reversed utility. So you get dry/wet sends. That's total control over the dynamic interactions of your tracks and would simply equal a master compressor if all sends were fully turned on. Of coarse you'd overdo the compression because it's parallel anyways. But that across the board. And it even works a bit like EQing. So again. Nothing in the master except a good limiter. But even that becomes less important if you begin to limit your buses and tracks because the transients will not add up that much.
@@alexhormann8931 im glad you found a workflow that works for you. Not my cup of tea. I enjoy mainly using the mix bus for full mix compression and using compressors as inserts where needed. Thanks!
Interesting but A N A L. 10 years of Live and I never been near a 'mastering' chain!!! And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Too much on your system, sounds great on mine. I love more bass.... is it subjective....? If your in a hurry use whatever sound good.
Mate. You’re making videos for people on CZcams. We can’t hear any major difference. You shouldn’t use headphones and mix in mono to demonstrate what you mean.
The real lesson is that no plugins can compete with the hardware racks in the top music studios of the commercial music your attempting to emulate... Took me many years to realize this fact due to the misinformation spread by the Plugin Industry
ehh. Most of the "top music studios" in the world are at least hardware / software hybrid, some of which are all in the box. The lesson from this video is ditching the notion that a preset mastering rack is ever a good idea to place on your mix. AND That its much better to build an effects chain tailored specifically for the tune you're working on.
Would you like to see a lesson on "Top Down Mixing?" let me know :)
this would be nice!
Yes please!! 🥰
Go for it...
^^
Yee, I'd be curious what your 'preparing a mix for a limiter' process looks like. Big ups anthony!
What you said at 11:55 is damn near poetic. I’m a designer and only into music production as a hobbyist but what I learn from people like you in so many ways applies to design. Very well said!
Used Ableton religiously for 8 years and never knew there was mastering presets chains.
Definitely wont be starting now , but consider me educated, thanks man!
Same here :-) :-) although only 3 years with Ableton :-)
lmao that was the best comment
this is the only video I've been able to find about this and it's what I needed to hear. not messing with any of the stock master racks anymore. it was also interesting to see the glue comp when you expanded the rack. as lite doesn't come with the glue this makes me think it's buried in some of those racks. 12 lite has some wavetable presets so it's probably similar.
thank youuu!!!! way down the road in my ableton journey and ended up here with the guy who taught me the first things I learned about the program through a random google search about mastering. pretty neat!! I just learned about mastering chains and it didn't quite seem like the right choice.
You are a great teacher. So clear and informative. Love it. Thx.
When I mix into a limiter I make sure that I don’t get more than 5 dB of gain redux. This enables me to level the mix without distorting. When I turn it off I’m typically saving 3-6db of headroom and I’m very confident in my mixes
I actually use the neutral mastering rack and make sure the multi band compression acts only within 0.5 dB and the limiter as well.
It doesn't change the nature of the mix and makes sure you get a decently loud mix.
I mainly produce demos, I think I deliver better mixes that way.
You're the man.
he is the man!
I’ll see myself out
Incredible! It is so clear
Hey, I'm a total mastering noob. Sound design is getting better, so I have this track where I used Ableton's "Analog Warmth' mastering chain on the Master channel, looked at the spectrum, did a lil eq there. To my ears it sounds good, I think it looks good as well but as I said I'm a mastering noob. I always leave more then plenty of headroom in the mix. To my opinion it's good. But I wonder what a mastering engineer might say.. I was very confident about until I had seen this video..
I really don't know much about music production. Getting the mix done and prepared before mastering and especially before letting stuff hit a limiter hard seems like a great takeaway. I'm finding it hard to accept the message about throwing out all these nifty looking racks, though. It seems like the point of racks is to map the main controls that you are likely to use onto knobs, no? I consider everything in Ableton to be just a starting point, and then you create your own presets, and even your own presets are just for saving time - it doesn't mean you're not going to have to add or delete effects. I never thought the point of racks was to save you from understanding what's in them, I thought it was just for convenience. I can 100% believe the statement that there isn't one perfect chain order, even for a give style. For sure, you've got me onside for that. But I find it really hard to believe that there aren't popular chain orders and common knobs to focus on. Please help me understand why I should stay away from Mixing & Mastering racks and treat them like "garbage". Like I said, I really am completely new at this and just here to learn. I come from a coding background, and when I see these racks, I see them as something akin to free software - in other words something powerful to both learn from and build on.
I love your honest approach, and more than that I love 'why' educators. The seemed almost like a debunking video, which is cool, made me wonder about that whole 'pink noise mastering' thang, I assumed it was more of a quick ballpark thing you would fine tune specific to the mix, but an interesting thing nonetheless and a next vid idea for you, cuz I'd watch it :)
you have the best videos on production
I had tried top down mixing style, but i kind of got lost, I didn't understand it completely, it would be awesome if you can make a video of it.
Ha. I didn’t even know Ableton had mixing and mastering racks. I don’t look at or use a lot of what comes with Ableton ( beyond basic effects and drumkits) I probably should explore more. i used to make my own chains with stock effects, adjusting to track mix. and now i use my own favorite plugins from various third party vendors. My chains are standard to my template with everything turned off and adjust as needed.I add my limiter to my master as the final step. Im still trying to understand how it works. I often use ozone and run the mix through it to recommend settings. I then go back and turn off some devices and adjust to taste.. i also have a stock eq and limiter on every track in my templates. Those limiters are set to a minimum and i do a lot of gain-staging but are there as a just in case I’m hitting levels too hard.
lol i'm so guilty of using "Full chain master" and just leaving it because its louder
i feel you man
Same here! lol
But for real, I have been watching mastering videos extensively; I really want to bring my music to another level.
Great Video
Nice one!! Is there any headphone mastering and mixing guide? If not, I d love to see one from you :) cheers
youre awesome man tx - def checkin ur courses
Epic. Great job.
Great video as always, thank you so much!
I love the intro sound.
You forgot to adjust the macros to the on the Punchy Dance Master.
nice video, good examples and good over voice, thank you! keep doing this :)
bro I really appreciate the information, I just ask for normal controls in that webinar video so I can rewind or fast forward, I wanted take some notes but I can't.. is that how your course is too?
Dude I love your videos
Amazing video. Thank you!
I tend to use these as starting points and then put utility in front to adjust the gain of the mix. Thoughts on this strategy?
This was my same question, I second this. I'm an idiot when it comes to mastering... Is this a good place to start as a noob?
that wont change the squashed dynamics. if you put the utility in the front after squashing your sound you have already affected it. you are lowering the volume but the sound is altered..
@@KMcirca82 But if you add the utility before the mastering preset, then you should be able to adjust it to an appropriate gain before it hits the preset?
@@BrendanCescon i'm no expert but in theory yes.
my mastering often comes down to clipping, multiband, eq, i dont see the point in using a rack for something so basic
Right. Youre creating a mixbus chain tailored to your music. I was shocked when I learned how common this is to reach for presets. Folks be cray.
@@SeedtoStage The only preset racks I recommend are racks for a specific purpose, like a vocal delay rack with a bunch of complex delays for vocals or the widely known phat rack (by virtual riot) which makes hard bass sounds incredibly fat with saturation and compression.
Racks should never replace knowing what you are doing but only assist, because blindly using a rack like that doesnt actually get you good results.
thats just my two cents on the topic
Is that some kind of peak indicator in your Glue Compressor? Around 10:30. Haven't seen that before.
look at the range section on your glue and adjust the db
Im kind of confused why do don't use -6dB and 0dB amplitudes instead of a digitally distroted signal - which of course will sound worse. Thats not about gain dependend behavior of a plugin (but that is a thing, tho) ...also an EQ is not a linear effect, but linear EQs in specific exist :D nice effort
Linearity of gain vs linearity of EQ are 2 entirely different things. Linearity of EQ is referring to the tiny changes in waveform phase timing which can cause unintended eq results. Linearity in gain dependent effects like compression and distortion mean that different signal levels at input will create nonlinear or dynamic results.
Thnks
I do not "clearly" hear the differences :( At least not between the first two examples. Is there something I have to concentrate on?
In case you aren't doing so already, you would need some decent speakers or headphones (not laptop/phone/cheap earbuds) to get a clear representation of the sound. It won't just knock you over the head, but the difference is there. I did notice more when he matched the volume; I agree the initial louder version mostly only sounded louder, but there were traces of distortion; but in the matched version, it comes out sort of thin and plastic sounding
It makes sense if you want to experience different possibilities with presets.
But if you don't find anything wrong, you don't have to mess things up!
BLESS THE ALGORITHM
Hey guys, what differences hear btwn mix 1 and mix 2 at same level after compression?, apart from "squashed", I mainly feel a low-end lost and unpleasant bright distortion in the wooble lead, and maybe a bright reduction of the dynamics overall, drums and that kind of "sparkles" sounds remain all the same.
Just testing my new headphones and want to know opinions, good video 👍
the deep low end subtly overpowers all the other parts you mentioned. when the bass is too strong it affects the rest of the audio
thanks for making me feel disspointed in myself lol guess theres no shortcuts and its time to get to work. appreciate u
I learned the basics of mastering in about an hour. There's great tutorials on here. Definitely not great at it but I know what to do for the most part.
your wall art looks so soothing. what is it? :)
The incredible artist Sweet Melis! Sweetmelis.com
@@SeedtoStage thanks!
👍
These look like cool little racks to be able to throw on to a track and tweak a little. I was really wondering if it's supposed to be used on a master channel or a single instrument track? If anyone knows let me know.
These are more of a waste of time than anything. You can get much better results by creating chains using devices and plugins optimized for your mix.
@@SeedtoStage heard. At least they taught me to put my limiter after my compressors from now on. I wasn't positive how you should typically use the limiter.
Hmmm, the phase shifts of the multiband compressor in the master sucks the charisma out of your track imo. I'd rather compress the low frequencies within a separate kick/bass bus to avoid that.
it was just a quick example. I use Pro-MB in linear phase mode when doing this normally.
Seed to Stage
Yep, same here. But as time goes on I ask myself more and more: What the heck do I want to change in the master that I didn't hear or couldn't do in the mix?
@@alexhormann8931 Yeah but there are really good reasons to have mixbus effects vs track inserts in certain cases such as the push and pull that various mix elements have on each other when mixbus compressed create glue and cohesion if used lightly.
Seed to Stage
Yes, exactly. But did you ever try to compress via send/return? Tow sends, one for the signal and one for the sidechain input. The compressor itself sits in a return track in a rack with a parallel phase reversed utility. So you get dry/wet sends. That's total control over the dynamic interactions of your tracks and would simply equal a master compressor if all sends were fully turned on. Of coarse you'd overdo the compression because it's parallel anyways. But that across the board. And it even works a bit like EQing.
So again. Nothing in the master except a good limiter. But even that becomes less important if you begin to limit your buses and tracks because the transients will not add up that much.
@@alexhormann8931 im glad you found a workflow that works for you. Not my cup of tea. I enjoy mainly using the mix bus for full mix compression and using compressors as inserts where needed. Thanks!
thank god you explain this :) im sick of five things bla bla bla and bullshit. peeez
Interesting but A N A L. 10 years of Live and I never been near a 'mastering' chain!!! And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Too much on your system, sounds great on mine. I love more bass....
is it subjective....? If your in a hurry use whatever sound good.
Mate. You’re making videos for people on CZcams. We can’t hear any major difference. You shouldn’t use headphones and mix in mono to demonstrate what you mean.
Some of these mastering fx sounds horrible
The real lesson is that no plugins can compete with the hardware racks in the top music studios of the commercial music your attempting to emulate... Took me many years to realize this fact due to the misinformation spread by the Plugin Industry
ehh. Most of the "top music studios" in the world are at least hardware / software hybrid, some of which are all in the box. The lesson from this video is ditching the notion that a preset mastering rack is ever a good idea to place on your mix. AND That its much better to build an effects chain tailored specifically for the tune you're working on.
I wouldn’t use their racks but that’s me