What Tiny Details Of Saturn V Rocket Actually Did
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2017
- I've now got 2 Saturn V models and wanted to look at the detailed surface features which all have a real function as part of the design.
The word 'Greeble' isn't correct of course, it's a model building term that refers to all sorts of non-functional detailling added to plain surfaces to make them look more interesting.
Saturn V Model Kit: amzn.to/2sHBbfE
Lego Saturn V: shop.lego.com/en-US/LEGO-NASA... - Hry
According to a "spark" documentary I watched about the Saturn 5, the real reason for the "common bulkhead" in the fuel/oxidiser tanks in the second stage was because that stage had to be made smaller (and therefore lighter) comparatively late in the design process for the entire vehicle. The problem was that as the designs for the command and service modules (and to some extent the lunar module) were continually updated, they kept getting heavier. Which posed a far bigger problem than it might seem, because from the perspective of the launch vehicle, the CSM was "payload", and the amount of extra fuel required to lift more payload is multiplied several times with a multi-stage rocket.
This was further complicated by having separate companies design each section: The first stage by Boeing, the second stage by North American Aviation, the third stage by Douglas Aircraft Company, and the actual rocket engines fitted to those stages built by another separate company - Rocketdyne. When the entire rocket had to be made lighter as a result of the payload being made heavier, the most efficient stage to take the weight out of would have been the third stage. But this had already been developed too far, and it would have made little sense to take weight out of the first stage, since most of that was fuel and engines.
So taking weight out of the second stage was the compromise position, with the common bulkhead contributing to this in two ways: First and most obvious, by eliminating a tank section, which reduced the amount of material needed to make the tanks. Second, the combined common bulkhead fuel/oxidiser tank was significantly more compact than having two separate tanks, so the entire second stage could be reduced in length, which made the casing lighter and reduced the length of some pipework and cables, saving more weight.
@@faisalarsilan3908 who said that's bad?
@@faisalarsilan3908 Know what you call a nerd after college? Boss.
@@faisalarsilan3908 so are you if you watch this channel lol
I think that coexists with the reason Scott Manley gave - the low density of liquid hydrogen contributed to a second stage common bulkhead becoming the lowest hanging fruit. Very interesting history.
Scott Manley could make a video about the consistency of the toilet paper they use on the ISS, and I'd still watch it.
SkulShurtugalTCG I
they dont have toilet paper in space.
i never knew their tp was half a sheet of smooth and half a sheet of ridged. Now I know why
That involves talking about spesspewp.
Scott Manley is HIGHLY LIKELY to talk about spesspewp.
Spess pewp is my new internet username.
In a nutshell: Fuel lines, Everything-Else-That-Isn't-Fuel lines, RCS, extra-strength corrugated sheet metal, antennae, and lots and lots of Sepatrons.
Me: Hey girl you wanna go upstairs and play with my rocket,
Her: I want to play with your rocket all night long
*later that afternoon*
Me: So as you can see, this is a liquid helium tank, just like Scott Manley said and on my model at least this is missing all the actual tanks. Wait a minute, I don’t have a girlfriend, I’ve been talking to nobody this entire time
I get a rocket - Cooool a rocket! *VSHHHHHHH*
Scott Manley gets a rocket - This section doesn't have corrugated skin because the pressurization adds structural rigidity
ComboBreakerHD, you must have just returned from an English class, 6th grade perhaps, judging from your use of silly terms like "Cooool" and "VSHHHHHHH". While I agree that Scott might have slipped some words here - that pressurized tanks need to be structurally more rigid - is it not a bit naive or even stupid to mock such tedious issues in a live presentation? Try recording your own presentations, if you could manage some, and see how good you could talk and move.
Never have I seen a joke go over a person's head as absolutely as it flew over Nova Dusty's. To have witnessed this perfect incomprehension... what a time to be alive.
Uh i think pressurized tanks need LESS reinforcement, it needs to be less rigid by itself, as pressure inside keeps it rigid (as metals and numerous other materials have WAAAY higher tensile strength than compressive strength), you know like a stiff....
ha, unopened coca-cola can, now what did you think of ;-)
As cold war was kinda ending, i saw a documentary about "near miss" nuclear incident, where someone doing maintainance dropped some tool, which hit and punctured first stage fuel tank on a h-bomb carying misile, and as tank(s) depresurized, the missile got crushed by its own weight... and leaked oxidizer too, and whole thing exploded (but the nuke was later found, whole, no nuclear fuel spilled out...or so they say;-)
+Pyroslav x The Science and Technology Museum in Ottawa has an old NASA rocket of some sort or other, which they have to keep slightly pressurized to simulate the pressurized fuel tanks. Otherwise, the thing might fold up and collapse in a strong wind.
ComboBreaker, Ahahahahahaahh! Rocket Porn Pressurized Ridgidity Nice!
The corrugated parts remind of food cans. Pop/soda cans can be very thin and smooth because the contents are under pressure. Whereas soup cans are not under pressure, therefore the steel must be corrugated and thick.
RC pi that is a most astute comparison :)
well... odd comparison but very true
Interestingly (to me) the corrugation is along a different axis in the soup cans, though I suppose it still serves the same purpose? Maybe theyre stronger from side loads vs longitudinal loads such as those the SV needed to withstand? Im not an engineer I dont know these things.
@@MattH-wg7ou it is along a different axis because there's no danger of it crumbling under its own weight
Soup can ribs protect from force perpendicular to it (rockets aren't supposed to be held with giant hands, so they don't need them), not along it
Funnily enough, while food cans are not under pressure for the majority of their lifespan, many of them are under pressure at one stage of manufacture. With any foods like soup, canned vegetables, stews, curries or anything else high in liquid content, the product is essentially cooked in the can after it has been sealed inside. This is done by pressure-cooking, similar to how chefs make dulce-de-leche (aka milk caramel) from cans of sweetened condensed milk by boiling the unopened cans in a pressure cooker.
If you try this without using a pressure-cooker, the cans can explode, as anyone who has taken canned food on a camping trip and tried to cook an unopened can on a fire will have found out the hard way. Cooking the cans under pressure helps prevent this, and the horizontal corrugations add another layer of safety by allowing some expansion to happen when the cans are heated.
Another situation where corrugated cans add safety is for canned "fermented" foods. Such as the infamous Swedish "surströmming" fermented herring, which continues fermenting inside the can, building up gas pressure as a result. Older cans are often bulged, either outwards or upwards, since they have concentric corrugations in the end caps as well as horizontal corrugations around the side.
Year, I just caught myself putting greebles on my KSP Vehicles.
Stefan Klass I too greeble my spacecraft with extra antenna, batteries, solar panels, and radiators that they don't really need
Haha same here. Any small square structures with unnecessary struts, anyone?
I'm exactly the opposite. I end up with really weird tubes with science instruments pasted on. Half my satellites are a fuel tank with an antenna on one end and some solar panels on the side.
Hi, I'm Eternal Reign and I'm a greebleholic. I'm here to begin my 12 step program.
I identify as a Greebler Elf.
So basically if a bunch of engineers design a spaceship, all those bits are there for a reason, but if some scifi movie guys do it, they just leave this little hole that if you shoot a laser through it the whole station blows up.
The best greebles, though, are those that the creator can explain from a funcionality standpoint.
EvilDylan "functional greebling"? Can we coin the term? Or is it already in use?
Also known as the Incredible Cross-Sections STAR WARS books...
Well, some of the greeblies anyway.
@@AnimeSunglasses the cross sections in space spaceballs were even more impressive xD 🙈
Building models is an excellent way of learning about the actual structures and engineering on which the model is based.
Bear in mind that, with models of Saturn V, not all of them are 100% accurate (in fact, none of them really are). But, by and large, they are very useful for learning about the real thing.
12:15 “Boring hunk of junk” ... actually an apt description of every piece of real-world technology that we rely on to work reliably to get through our lives.
If ever space travel becomes routine, that will apply to spacecraft as well.
Do you think that there will be Lego Interplanetary Transport System model avaiable to buy in late 2070s?
I'd highly suspect the toys will come out with the rocket in the 2020s (if it comes out in the 2020s).
Wiktor Guzowski hopefully it will be that famous
I think that, if SpaceX succesfully settles on Mars, Lego will release an ITS shortly after.
If there were it'd cost more than the real thing.
Wiktor Guzowski somebody send an idea of this and is now being reviewed. So maybe next year
Maybe could have described the ullage motors a little more thoroughly? I was fascinated to learn that they existed and why.
When the rocket is in flight, after a stage has expended its fuel and fallen away, the rocket is in free-fall. The fuel in the tanks might also be essentially floating around within the tank. Starting the engines up could fail if fuel isn't forced down toward the bottom of the tank. So the small ullage motors (solid rocket motors) are fired to give the rocket some acceleration.
Pushing the rocket upward causes the fuel to hang back and remain in the bottom of the tank. Starting up the liquid motor is now possible. Once the main rocket motor fires up, the ullage motors are no longer necessary.
+softdorothy I forget that people watching this video may not have seen all the other videos where I dealt with ullage problems.
Good point. This was the first of your videos I dropped in on. Now just saw your video on the Atlas rocket. Very cool.
Good explanation.Growing up in Glasgow in the60's I got a Cape Canaveral set for Chritmas.Tbe rockets were launched using a spring trigger release. It came with vehicles,figures, launch toer etc. Wish I had it now
"Launch toer" really?
stuff like that reminds me that you're still the master of everything space. I have ways to go...
I watch your videos!
I also watch your videos!
I wonder what Scott Manley's brain comes up with before he goes to sleep
"I'm Scott Manley...sleep safe"
You know...stuff.
@@TheGyromorgian Goodnight, sleep tight, don't let the space bugs bite?
Only his wife knows.
Love these kind of videos!
Thank you for my daily dose of knowledge.
That's actually one of the things i love about the 2001 A Space Odyssey models. You can see or assume where the RCS systems and such would go on the EVA pods and those kinds of spacecraft. I don't remember who had access to NASA at the time, but i know this was during the Apollo program and of course Kubrick wanted to be as accurate as possible.
The most functional craft in that film was the Pan Am shuttle--which has the exact body design of the later NASA Shuttle Orbiter.
Well done. This answers questions I've had since back in the day
A tip from the Warhammer community: Thin your paints! It helps make the paint easier to manipulate as it won't be as thick. More importantly though, it keeps it from covering smaller details.
Going to name my next dog Greeble. Because rockets.
And sci-fi spacecraft.
Careful, he might Greeble all over the floor.
Super interesting and educational. Loved it thank you! I must get that set to hang above my monitor
Greeble Space Program...
I love all those nerdy stuffs all around your room.
absolutely amazing. I always wondered about this stuff on my models.
Cool video Scott, i love your variety in your content!
I actually researched a lot of this stuff prior to building my LEGO Saturn V with my girlfriend so I could tell her everything about it. One thing that I found is that those service tunnels on the S-IC actually carry gaseous oxygen and helium to pressurise the tanks while you said it was liquid... might have to look into that again.
The service tunnels carry mostly carry gasses.
Scott Manley Thanks for the clarification.
Just like my backside!
did you still have a girl friend after?
Pluto :
I did. :D
She also really likes the set.
interesting explanation of the workings Scott... love the copy of Imperial Assault in the background!
I love your videos! I have enjoyed my Lego model as well, but never knew what most of the details were for. Every time I get it off the shelf and explain the lunar voyage to young people, (I'm 50) I'm always told that they had no idea what was involved in that trip. This stuff, at least the details, is apparently not taught in schools any more. Kid's see Star Trek and think that's how we actually sent people to the moon. I finally made a full Apollo mission in Kerbal with as much detail as I could (before the history pack) to demonstrate. You've been an inspiration.
Great video, and I just love how he helped me learn Saturn V and enjoy it so much subscribed and liked, more please.
for a new video could you try and make a probe orbit the mun in ksp as closely as possible, just mere meters over the higher mountains
I think you missed something when it came to the second stage common bulkhead, Scott. The reason why NASA designed the second stage fuel tanks to share a bulkhead rather than remaining completely separate was because the Saturn V was too heavy and the only stage that could be lightened was the second stage, because it was furthest behind in development at the time. The more you know!
Thanks for the great video - my kids and I bought the Lego model and had a great time building it. Good to know what all the bits do...
What a nice simple explanation! My six year old and I loved this.
Everytime I’ve seen a video of the Saturn 5 staging, I’ve wondered if there weren’t little retro rockets pushing and pulling everything apart! I assumed the staged portions would maintain the same velocity and the pieces wouldn’t fall back into the atmosphere to burn up! Great explanation!
Perhaps do a Falcon9 detailed exterior breakdown?
Especially the bottom re-entry plates on the first stage and the insulating fabric around each of the Merlin engines?
Thanks
This is a video i didn't know I needed, but I definitely did
its funny that you talk about Greeble. because even though I have to agree that it makes sci fi stuff look amazing, it usually doesn't make any sense when you overdo it, its like every bit of surface is a critical component. and it really pisses me off
Danilo Oliveira The ship from Prometheus is a good example of overdone greebling imo
the prometheus ship is not so bad actually, I think the epitome of overdoing greebling is the death star... and a map from mechwarrior online called HPG manifold (seriously, look it up, its painful to look at. it not only has all the bumps in the model, but also the texture of the bumps have bumps)
Oh, and need I mention the Borg?
touche
if the spaceship only operates outside the atmosphere, it would make sense to attach all the things on the surface to have more space in the interior.
I love love love watching your vids. Very informative.
I made a Saturn V model when I was a kid, between 2 of the Apollo missions. It was about twice as large as yours at about 4 feet tall. It also contained a small LEM. I loved it. Also had a 1/32 scale model of the LEM.
Cheers for that. I've got a model Saturn 5 in the attic, I remember the surface features and always wondered...
Now here I am thirty years later!...
Tip for Scott - if you ever build another Saturn V plastic kit and have trouble getting a neat demarcation between the white and black parts (those corrugations are a bugger), you can neaten the divide by using strips of black decal. I used that technique when building the Airfix Saturn V not that long ago and it worked a treat.
Thank you for explaining these features of the Saturn V. The LEGO model is pretty accurate! For this video the 4D Vision Saturn V would come in handy. It has cut away parts, the tanks are visible and also the liquid oxygen pipes of the first stage and second stage.
Yeah, but that’s a heck of a lot more expensive....
@@scottmanley Yeah, that's the downside of the model. I have to be honest to say, for me it was worth it
Another great vid. Thanks!
QUERY: Do you currently or have you ever engaged in model rocketry? I don't believe I've ever seen you discuss that.
As always, big fan :D
"Actually it's quite complicated" XD XD XD ... Love your videos Scott !
hey really like your videos!!
Did you mean Sepratrons at 4:17?
They are Retromotors (the same thing !?)
Correct. They are the IRL equivalent to KSP Seperatrons.
No they are Ejectatrons from SpaceY mod, sepratrons are too small.
That's a really interesting topic, I find myself learning quite a bit from your videos. Also next time I make a sci-fi model and put a minimum of greebles on it I can say 'but it doesn't need that many fuel lines and service tunnels!
That was very interesting! It was literally rocket science! I'm glad you mentioned the paintwork on your model. I was going to, but didn't want to be "that person".
Thank you for this video!
I love your channel for providing detailed technical information about the Saturn V. I'm amazed that there were 5 LOX lines running through the fuel tank...I'd be so worried about the seals around the 5 holes in the fuel tank on top and bottom, that the seals could become loose with the vibrations of the launch and flight.That seems really scary to me. But apparently that was never a problem at all.
One of the best part of assembling models is looking up what each part does.
There were also two (or three?) wires that ran down the entire length of the Saturn. When the wires were intact and providing continuity, life was good. In the event of an inflight breakup of the launch vehicle, these wires would of course be broken and then an associated signal was sent triggering the launch escape tower.
I'm sure I've over simplified it but that was basically how one of the LES triggers worked
What's that diagram you kept zooming in on for various parts like the retromotors and through-tank feedlines in first stage? I've never seen such a detailed and high quality diagram
scott can you do another orbital mechanics video or sth related to astrophysics please
The small engines that fire backward, to speed up the rocket (eg. the Ullage motors), are called Posigrade motors, while those that fire forward, to slow it down, are called Retrograde motors.
Just finished putting my Saturn V lego set together. It’s awesome!
Great explanation!
Greeble is a term, specifically a controllable algorithm for 3D surface subdivision and animation. Surfaces made more interesting, or detailed, have a wide range of specific terms (texture, normal, hi-poly). The greatest challenge of any spacecraft modeler is to assign plausible functionality to those details, so videos like this are valuable in that regard.
Term greeble was created in1970 by model builders during filming of original StarWars movie, way before any 3d CG.
First I’m a huge fan. Please keep up the good work. This is a great video covering the bits never covered so thanks. But you kinda shrugged off the common bulkhead in the second stage like it wasn’t hard to do nor a big deal! It was incredibly difficult for them to do what they did and wasn’t in the original design! One example..The temperature difference alone caused a big headache! Here sat 2 different fuels at 2 totally different temperatures next to each other with nothing but a thin piece of metal in between them!! That alone was incredibly difficult to overcome! What they did was amazing! That common bulkhead design even caused the overall height of the Saturn V to shrink as well. Once they got it done though wow it and the rest of the Saturn was a true marvel of engineering! The Saturn V to this day is the greatest machine ever design and built by man!
You talk about the shared bulkhead being there because it was easy (or at least easier) to do that with the low pressure hydrogen fuel. In the documentary they say they started with separate tanks, but had to merge them to meet size and weight requirements for stage 2, and it took a fair amount of work to get right.
Learned a lot. Time to tune my KSP replica.
Nice! I've always wandered what all those tubes were meant to!
You should try CobaltWolf's Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more, mod, to 1.3 ksp. Its so nicely modeled!
Don't feel bad about your paint job, Scott. I remember my frustration when discovering the capillary dispersion of paint below the masking tape in these corrugations. Oh, how I hated myself! That was more than 40 years ago when Saturn V wasn't really 'history' yet.
Hey! Imperial Assault in the background! That's my favorite board game! I just finished the Jabba's Realm campaign with some friends a couple days ago. :)
I used to have that Saturn V model too, it was the coolest thing I've ever seen. Little 10 year old me could barely contain myself.
at 6:33 when he talks about the service tunnels, it's important to note that they also controlled the automatic launch abort system. As they ran across the body of the whole rocket, in the case of any sudden structural failure, they would break and if 2 of the 3 tunnels broke, the tower jettisoned automatically with the capsule.
I still have my Revelle model Saturn V from X-Mas 1970 that’s much larger than even the LEGO Saturn V. It was made using plastic molded parts as usual and a thin plastic skin to make up the rocket body without being too heavy. Hope one of my boys will take it after I’m long gone.
What I learned from this video: Scott Manley plays Imperial Assault! Seriously, though -- I had no idea there were so many control motors on the Saturn. When I built a model Saturn V as a kid, I just thought all that stuff looked cool. I never even wondered at the purpose.
11:05 "Ok, it's actually quite complicated..." lol, ya think? Its a friggen moon rocket! 😉
Love your channel! I want a sweet Saturn V model/toy that I dont have to build and paint myself. Aint nobody got time for that...well, I dont.
I think Bandai makes one. It's a die-cast model fully assembled and all the individual rocket stages are able to detatch just like in a launch....I also believe it's hella expensive...good luck!
In the excellent documentary series "moon machines" they reported that the second stage was slightly behind the rest of the vehicle in the development cycle. When the payload ended up needing more mass late in the game it had to be trimmed off the launch vehicle, the design of the first and third stages were already locked in so extreme measures had to be taken to get that mass out of the second stage. Measures such as the common bulkhead.
Hello Scott, i remember seeing a documentary that explain merging the bulkhead of the 2 tank on the second stage was not in the initial plan but rather a necessity. Being the last one to be qualified, and facing a overall mass budget other the roof ! Nasa decided to eliminate this inter-tank part of the rocket and combining the 2 tank bulkhead to save mass. It was a nightmare in engineering as LO2 is at -182°C and LH2 is at -252°C that make a temperature gradient of 70°C to be done in the 1 or 2 mm wall to avoid formation of oxygen ice.
Scott,
thank you so much for your insights here. I really enjoyed learning about this all.
I had a foreign exchange student that went to the Huntsville Space and Rocket center and saw the Saturn V rocket. I asked them if they had any questions after their visit and they said "yes, how many years did it take for the astronauts to get to the Moon?" I laughed, but in retrospect, it is a perfectly reasonable question.
.0109 years. :-)
The problem is that most people don't have a good sense of scale in their heads of how big the earth is, and how vast the distances involved are, and how fast you have to go just to get into earth orbit. They watch rockets go up on TV, and from the perspective of the long-distance cameras they don't look like they're moving that fast. Even today, when you see the on-board cameras on things like SpaceX launches where you even have context of seeing the earth in the background, it's hard to tell how fast the craft is moving without the telemetry box they put in the corner.
I was watching the latest SpaceX, and it suddenly hit me that at only a few minutes into the flight, the thing was moving faster than a .45 bullet fired from a gun... and it was just getting started. Fast rockets is fast!!
Such a knowledgeable chap Mr Manley, never satisfied with merely saying meh. A credit to my nation. Thanks Stott for sharing all your personal research efforts with the world :)
I thought ullage was dregs of beer but who knew it referred to the unused space at the top of a fuel tank. I do now. Great video, Scott, I'll be back for more.
Very interesting video, thanks for sharing. Where do the drawings in the video come from ? some reference book about Saturn V ?
That makes me remember my teenager time when I builded lots of plasticmodels :) good fun times.
cool vid i wondered what all those things did
I'm doing a live stream build of this on Saturday, and I've been looking for stuff to talk about to fill the time...
Pointing out the lesser known functional features on the model will be great for filling a few minutes, so thanks for the idea!
Not a bad piece of work. I didn't know those were hydrogen feed line covers on the bottom of the S-II stage but it makes perfect sense.
The makeup of the junk in your room is very similar to mine, needs more 40k.
Keep up the awesome content.
Where did you find these fancy technical drawings of the Saturn V?
Interesting note: on S-IC the intertank corrugations are molded in while those on the interstage and thrust structure are actually stringers with rectangular(-ish) cross sections that were attached externally. Also, the original S-II design had separate tanks. Because of weight concerns, the S-II became the proverbial red-headed stepchild and endured the major changes -- the headache of the shared bulkhead tank not only saved the weight of one bulkhead and intertank section but also shortened the stage.
The S-II engineers faced some serious challenges... It was the last stage contracted for, and the S-IC and S-IVB stages had already eaten most of the vehicle weight margin.
I can't wait to get my Saturn V tattoo! Already have a V-2 tattoo! Woot!
Nice! Where are you getting it? (If you don't mind me asking)
Great video! Love all the Star Wars stuff. Named my daughter Leia Rey lol
Mr. M; Please, please, please discuss and show the taper pins that prevented the Saturn/Apollo from crumpling at liftoff! I have read about them, but haven't been able to see them on the videos.Thanks! You are one of the hoopiest frood dudes ever!-jimc
Nice explanation. Where online can one find those detailed diagrams of the Saturn V stages? Thanks
When the retro-rockets in the S1C fairings fire they blow out the tips of the fairings. You can see those sections flying away just after first stage separation in some ascent footage.
Very informative. Where can I find the drawings of the Saturn V. They are the most clear and detailed I've ever seen.
If you haven't had a chance, read David Woods' "How Apollo Flew to the Moon". A great read that explains in great detail the workings of the Saturn V.
I really want NASA to one day retrofit and launch a Saturn V rocket with HD cameras all over it. I want to see those famous launch camera vids and stage separation vids as well as reentry and recovery of a test module.
Have you painted your Imperial Assault Minis? I see the box in the background...
Yes Scott build them, so my tau can snipe them.
Nick Van Riper he also plays x wing. that's what the falcon model was from.
Scott plays Star Wars X-Wing! AND Imperial Assault! Cool!
Would love to see one where we talk about the internals of the Saturn V lego
That thing about the greebles--the guy who designed the original starship Enterprise really didn't believe in them; he thought that technology would have advanced to the point that you didn't need all sorts of odd hatches over the hull in the time the series was set, which is why the original model is pretty much plain white. They started to add greebles for the design used in the movies, of course.
I just built my Lego Saturn V! I love it!
I want a larger Lunar Module.
THIS
Look up set 10029.
Never be ashamed of your awesome lego models. We build stuff way worse but still satisfying. And when I say we I mean me and my kids.
Scott Manley - you should check out the 4D vision Saturn V cutaway model from FameMaster. It's way ahead of the old Revell model, and best part is it's pre-painted.
What I heard was the only reason the S-II had a common bulkhead between the Liquid hydrogen and the fuel was the Lunar module came in over weight and the S-IC and S-IVB were already too far along in the design phase so they had to make all of the weight savings in the S-II.