Cards that are busted as hell in a format but not yet banned are usually put in products where they would be used powerfully, but the original creation of the card likely did not test the full ramifications. Stoneforge Mystic was in an FNM precon but the deck that got her banned used more blue.
Played a 4 player pod with 1 banned card allowed (proxy was ok) my friend sits down and sets out his narset deck. Turn 8 and he puts 24 copies of shaharazad on the stack
This lad knows what fun is! :D but on a side note after the first copy resolves and the subsequent sub game is won does the other 23 copies just stay on the stack waiting for the first sub game to end?
@@HappySmileLV ramp and fixing for virtually any deck on turn 2 (play it turn one, crack it turn 2). It's generally an effect limited to green otherwise and those effects are widely played in green decks, thus it is also a desired effect in non-green decks.
my fav bit of mtg lore is that a dude ripped his chaos orb into bits and sprinkled them over his opponent's entire board destroying everything. They made an unhinged card called chaos confetti to commemorate it.
@@MrSlimJimProductions This is widely considered to be an urban myth. My favorite addendum to the lore on this one is that it occurred in tournament play and the opponent called a judge for a deck count to find that in ripping up the orb the player had reduced his deck count to 59 cards and received a DQ as a result.
How to win a one-banned-card game of Commander: 1. Play Kenrith 2. Get any infinite colored mana combo online 3. Use Kenrith's abilities to gain your opponents infinite life, and draw them out until they have exactly 6 cards in their library 4. Play Nivix Guildmage 5. Cast Shahrazad and copy it infinite times with Nivix 6. You go to the subgame, and your opponents instantly lose due to decking out in their opening hands 7. Opponents lose half of their infinite life in the main game 8. The next Shahrazad resolves, rinse and repeat 9. Your opponents are trapped in an infinite loop of losing for all eternity
1) there is no way to get "infinite" mana. 2) there is no way to give your opponents "infinite" life. 3) there is no way to copy a spell an "infinite" amount of times 4) they scoop before you even get through half this stuff 5) comments like these show how much someone really knows about mtg.
@@fallendeus5641 What are you talking about? "going Infinite" is a very well established term in the magic vernacular. It refers to the process of demonstrating a loop and then taking a shortcut as described in Comprehensive Rules 725. Taking Shortcuts.
@@fallendeus5641 if it is pre agreed upon that you may only concede at sorcery speed (the only way I ever play) then they would be stuck. Also going infinite in this example would mean he could give his opponents as much life as he chose whenever he had priority, which is as close to infinite as is logically attainable. You are the fool here not anyone else. Scrub.
@@nzephier balance is way too far as a support card. Use free rocks, barely any creatures, empty hand by slinging cheap spells. Now when you cast balance you lose nothing and everyone else loses almost every permanent and card in hand. Would just buff any multicolour deck that can spew its hand. Mono w would probably be a bad place to run balance unless it was enchantment/artifact based stax, but stax pieces are typically 2-3cmc so you wouldn't get full value because of how slow those decks can be at dumping their hand
@@XCodes Urza is worse. If you play Urza and you opponents get you in the corner, you’d gladly tap your Winter Orb and Static Orb for two blue mana to crank out the Counterspell…
@@tylerdenneson7320 You think it's power level, and you're wrong. It's cards that look like they might be fun, but take the fun out of the game. The rules committee is OK with people doing brutal cutthroat stuff on purpose.
Joseph Mathes uh. You just assumed a lot about what “I think.” To be honest their criteria is different for every card they ban, but it’s always very obvious. You’re the one who thinks they know something other people don’t.
Someone at our table played it in combination with Niv-Mizzet. It was so busted! you could just make every player except yourself and one other lose the game. We found it it was banned right after the game was over...
Back when Iona was legal, I played against it with my Sakashima the Imposter deck. I cast desertion on his Iona while it was waiting to be resolved. I named white for my first Iona, then Black for my Sakashima clone of it. After I cast mirror gallery I named every other color with my clone army of Iona’s. All my opponents could do is lamely play mana rocks as they got railroaded my angels. We didn’t allow Iona at the table after that. Lol
My brother had a really annoying pillow fort Eight and a Half Tails mono white that had Iona and Painter's Servant in it. Needless to say he was hard targeted the moment he started getting too cushy in his stupid little fort.
I don't think Iona was the problem at the table it was the lockout from cloning it and removing the legend rule mostly Mirror Gallery in general as the legend rule was put there for a reason and cards like Mirror Gallery and Helm of the Host that fucks with that are not good with the game and breaks stuff like Iona too easily. So i would have suggested on banning Mirror Gallery and any other card that fucks with the legend rule as again there is a reason why that rule is there in the first place yet when there are cards that circumvents or straight up ignore that rule it breaks everything as legendary creatures are designed to be strong because of the rule
@@justinanderson2631 I was so hyped when the new sakashima released!! My favorite thing to do in commander is break the legendary rule. I still run Sakashima the Imposter as my commander, but he is definitely in the 99.
@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena I would disagree. Having multiples of a particular permanent or legendary creature in it of itself doesn't break the game. One of my main win conditions for the deck is having an army of Marit Lages swarm the board, and most of the time it dies to a cyclonic rift or a mass exile board wipe. The only reason Sakashima got out of hand was because someone chose to play Iona, and they purposely played it to lock out some of the mono colored decks in our play group. When you have cards in the command zone that say "If I successfully cast this, you cannot play" it ruins the atmosphere of commander. My mirror gallery can be removed. A player can counterspell it on the stack, or destroy it with countless removal spells. Once Iona is out and names a color, I cannot respond. That is the main difference. when that game happened, it showed how impossible it was to actually respond to Iona once she choses your color. Why punish players for playing mono-colored EDH????
@@fallsenseless9699 if someone plays Rift and doesn't win right away the game lasts forever. It also puts you at a huge advantage without any need for strategy in play or deck construction; it just goes in every deck with blue. It's a boring card that creates boring gamestates.
Sean McDonald its also 7 mana and requires the player casting it to draw pass most of the time. Unless you rift someone with their whole deck on the field its mostly a 1 turn set back. Also interaction is also a thing people can do. If most decks can slot rift then the can afford to run a few counters.
@@fallsenseless9699 someone draw-passing so they can bounce their opponents board is boring. People having to counter it so they don't have to restart at a huge deficit and discard a bunch of cards is boring. My whole point is that Rift creates uninteresting game states. Even symmetrical bounce spells, as much as they grind the game to a halt also create lame gamestates, require deck construction and a gameplan during play to take advantage of the effect. Rift requires neither. If it were banned, every single deck with blue just got one more slot that could be filled with an actually cool card.
@@FutureOverYou yeah cyclonic is pretty meta with my group but imo it's worse than upheavel. It's literally a one sided upheavel. We just get to keep our lands like wtf so? My board state is still wide open now and my opponent's isn't.
Great idea for a video. As someone who doesn't play EDH, I often feel lost when I see certain bans. Breaking down why those cards are problematic in this multiplayer format is something that always intrigued me.
I had a fun deck a while back that used Worldfire in combination with Near Death Experience under Oblivion Ring. Was a lot of work to set up, but felt so good when I made it work.
Once upon a time, they understood the difference in power between a creature as a commander and a creature in deck. There were cards banned outright and cards banned only as commanders. I miss having a Braids maindeck.
coalition victory is a pretty controversial ban, IIRC: it's really not that good, and there are other alternative win condition cards that are not banned and easier to activate.
While there are other wincons that may be easier to activate, they all provide a larger window for interaction. Felidar Sovereign waits until your upkeep, giving everyone time to untap and use removal or to lower your life. Other cards require time to build up counters, etc. Coalition Victory wins on resolution. Don't have a counterspell? Too bad, game over. Not even playing blue? You never had a chance.
@@coreyroberson4550 Agreed. It's too easy to win off coalition victory in a 5 color deck, especially when fetch and dual lands can cover the spell's cost
@@zeroisnine But only if you have mana untapped AND the appropriate removal in hand. There's no waiting to untap or draw into an answer. It's now or never. If you spent your turn developing your board because you didn't expect an "I win" spell with the slimmest of interaction windows, you lose.
@@kingfuzzy2 until it is in play every 2nd turn when you have only lands. And the braids player went first. Its way too easy just draw crypt, sol ring or dark ritual. And 2 swamps. If he can follow it up with a bitter blossom all the better. It was too consistent with it being in your command zone.
Selvala needs far more set up. You need big creature, Selvale is 3 Mana, and needs a green to activate. A better comparison is probably Bloom Tender. Only needs a 5 color permanent to produce WUBRG.
@@peewee130946 yeah I can't remember a time that rofellos wasn't banned from the command zone. But I remember when it was part of the 99 and if I remember clearly a turn 1 Sol Ring isn't scarier than a turn 2 rofellos. It was like prime time coming up next turn 3 and then it is like a really big genesis wave next.
A few notes Time Walk: I’ve seen a CEDH game with no banned list. The whole game was centered around time walk and trying to play it as much as possible, while also countering other time walls. Balance: It’s worth noting that this card does not affect Artifacts, enchantments, or planeswalkers. So if your deck is reliant on them, you pretty much win Karakas: I think the fact that this card is a land is the main reason it is banned. If it was an artifact or a creature, you could easily get rid of it, but lands are much harder to get rid of and land destruction is generally descourage.
I used to play with a house rule where you could play karakas but it could only target non commanders. A lot of banned cards are fair and fun if you aren’t using it for a busted combo.
Damn, I didn't even know Erayo was banned in commander. I almost got her for my flicker life gain deck because with how I can abuse etb effects that allow me to untap lands and fetch a instant or sorcery to my hand and create a loop that would easily allow me to transform her in one turn. Yea I can see why she was banned now.
Yeah, Erayo is gross. I used to run it in Edric because it had flying, and it got flipped nearly every time it hit the board. I actually felt good removing it when it got banned. And way back, I had a 60-card deck that could drop and flip Erayo on turn 2, followed by an Arcane Laboratory on turn 3. It was only fun to see people's reactions but not really fun to play.
@@coreyroberson4550 omg that sounds gross AF lol! Yea I would have felt so scummy if I ended up getting her but am glad I went with getting dovin's veto instead just because I didn't know she was banned until I saw this vid.
I ran Upheaval for a few games before someone pointed out that it's banned, and with the deck I was running it truly was "I cast it and I win", so I understand, my bad.
@@JJcheesy In my experience, the Rift leaves the land on the table, thus not 100% guaranteeing my win. A well planned Upheaval is a slam-dunk, game over... But, yeah the Cyclonic Rift is super-powerful.
Seeing some of these I'm surprised some of the cards I use aren't banned. Sage of Hours and Primal Surge have always been "I win" cards in my decks. I've got the Sage in my Ezuri, Claw of Progress deck and Primal Surge in my sliver deck ATM.
@@IanPeon cyclonic is one sided though! Literally gets rid of everyone else's stuff but the caster. Sure you keep lands but so does the caster and they keep their board state also. Maybe if it effected the caster too I'd see it as fair.
Love learning different things in MTG your channel allows that to happen easily ty. I shouted you out in my last video. I was talking about you putting an Eldrazi in a silent submersible lol. Keep up the awesome vids
Actually that was jace the mindsulpture. WOTC did a interview saying they would push a plainswalker as much as possible for standard play. Emrakul was the nice toy we got for being good well behaved magic players. Remember Emrakul is older than commander.
Missed a key thing about Leovold. Sure it's nasty with the wheels, but it is also in the best colors to tutor for said wheel effects. Black can get any of them; blue can get instants, sorceries, and artifacts; and green can get any creatures or lands that support it, such as ones that return the needed cards from your graveyard to your hand.
I remember the days of Prophet. The most egregious example I saw of it was when a guy had prophet, dumped his hand, activated a bunch of abilities, and then said “alright, I’ll end my turn.” He forgot that it wasn’t his turn.
Technically Emrakul should be in the "commanders" category. The reason originally given for the ban was because people were putting her in the command zone.
This is one the reasons I want banned as commander back. War Narset also basically does what Leovold does. While I do agree Emrakul is too strong even as part of the 99.
I played a “all cards except ante and shaherazad are legal” commander game once, and it was actually really fun. We all played with proxies. I played a chronomancy themed Urza artifact deck, and discovered the silliest of extra turn combos: Isochron scepter + time walk, + time vault + clock of omens + sundial of the infinite. Thing is, I was only alive at the behest of the person playing Lord Windgrace, because he drew channel earlier in the game, and used channel + bane fire to bring me down to like 3 life. In exchange, I didn’t go fully infinite, and just sat in my pillow fort, using soul foundry (I think it was soul foundry, but it might have been mimic vat) to produce a copy of darksteel colossus per turn, in order to defeat for the mono black player, who had platinum angel equipped with lightning greaves and darksteel plate, plus Yawgmoth’s draw enchantment, and K’rick, son of Yawgmoth as his commander. The game eventually ended, the fourth player had cast reverberate on a kicked rite of replication, targeting his Primordial Hydra, while having doubling season in play, only to die three turns later when the k’rrick player cast Pthisis on one of his hydras, the Windgrace player conceded when the k’rrick player cast grave pact followed by rise of the dark realms, and then she and I agreed to call it a draw from there, because I could take infinite turns (and thus get infinite darksteel colossi) but had no real way of killing her, short of casting wish and choosing the card ‘Richard Garfield, Phd.’, in order to get access to an emrakul. and the game had gone on for 4 hours by that point. Dumbest game I ever played, but also a great deal of fun. Other highlights of that game were the green player casting stone-cold basilisk, and petrifying the rest of the table, and the lord Windgrace player playing eldrazi conscription on a 1/1 badger, only to have that badger bravely give its life to kill wormcoil engine.
Every time I look in my binder and see Prophet of Kruphix, I cry. It's one of those busted cards that are the only reason the garbage decks I build have any chance of success.
Time walk was supposed to be a card that cost 1{R} and said "target opponent loses his or her next turn", which was supposed to mean that your opponent lost the turn, not the game, but since it was confusing it was changed to blue and it gives you an extra turn instead
Well, in a 1v1 format that does give you an extra turn, and in a multiplayer format it just makes some else lose a turn for no reason and that seems pretty unfair. So if it had to be anything I’d rather it be what it is.
Oh wow, You have really grown fellow Mitch from Minnesota! This is your second most popular video and its only been a month! You have come a long way from 500 subscribers! I hope you have been doing well, stay safe my dude!
Well you still have Biorhythm on a stick. I like the extra hoop because I have a feeling players can set up Biorhythm early enough to make it an archetype.
Check out shaman of the forgotten ways. His actiated ability is biorhythm but with the stipulation of activating it only if you have a creature with 8 power or more
I think emrakul is fine as she cant be flickered as her abilities are only cast triggered not ETB effects. And the lack of indestrucable means she is vulnerable to sweepers of any variety.
@@calebb1178 I still say wrongfully banned, its so easy to remove. Besides its on record in the command zone podcast the head honcho of the commander committee didn't like the card and for years had been trying to ban it.
@@bigjohn3173 You're right, it is easy to remove but depending on whats being played it can create a feels bad round, I think it should get a redemption like some other cards but at the same time I worry that it could also really hurt the format
@@calebb1178 it is a very powerful card once it gets going, I can understand the ban. I'm guilty of building a deck with Tinker and I had no idea that was banned as well lol
Time Vault is one of those cards where the flavour to its effect is nice, and it seems fine in a vacuum; pass a turn to bank it, then take that turn as an extra turn later in the game. The issue is that there are other cards in the game that can interact with it, which removes all sense of balance from its effect.
It should read "Time Vault enters the battlefield tapped. you may choose, not to untap time vault during your untap step. Whenever time vault becomes untapped, skip your next turn." Of course, then the combo would be sundial of the infinite with time vault, but at least sundial has a very narrow range on what it can actually do and unless you are looking for unlimited instant speed actions during the untap step, you'd still need some untap effect to go along with it so you can untap it at the end of your turn.
@@rockninja3 That's hard to put into plain words that Timmy at the kitchen table can still grasp. I feel like letting time vault be exploitable by "end the turn" effects is actually fine. They are few and far between and it would require at the very least three components. If someone set up sundial + vault + key, I'd not even be mad.
Thoughts: I don't think Sylvan primordial really deserves the ban. There are lots and lots of other big absurd creatures that give you lots of value when flickered or cloned. Braids being banned is also a bit disappointing. In a format where absurd Mana ramp is common I don't think the opposite should be shunned. As much as I love my big eldrazi beasties I agree with the Emmy ban I think a reason you didn't mention is that if she was allowed she would be ubiquitous as she's one of the best targets for huge Mana ramp. Banning her forces diversity in the big haymaker creatures played.
Paradox Engine also works with mana dorks, and it also lets you untap all your creatures after you attacked. It just does so much in one card, apart from giving you tons of mana from your mana dorks or mana rocks, you just need a way to keep drawing cards and then you have infinite mana and can just play your whole deck. There are also so many cards with powerful tap abilities you can just activate over and over again as long as you can keep casting spells. There must be so many combos with this card, and it's also an artifact, so it can fit into any deck.
Not to mention that chaos orb used to get ripped up before it was thrown down making it the only card in magic that became strategically viable after getting destroyed.
Everyone mentions the universal ban of Shahrazad... but I still think it's a beautiful card, representative of Richard Garfield's original whimsical intention for the game. In fact, he himself said explicitly that that's his favorite card... ;-)
As a wise, red skinned, one eyed wizard once said "The only thing intricate about this game is it's ban list" Of course that was about YuGiOh but hey, Magic has some intricacies with bans too.
The only house rule our playgroup has is we allow Primeval Titan with the clause he can only fetch basics. This limits him to essentially a ramp machine while eliminating his ability to search up combo pieces. It’s worked just fine for us over the years.
I feel like Channel's problems come because the designer didn't write out the effect well enough. The intended effect was likely meant to be "I play a land, I tap a land, I pay one life and get one and a colorless." Could probably use an errata.
Recurring nightmare should get unbanned, there are lots of ways to bring back creatures every turn and there is lots of good graveyard hate to shut it down anyway.
I think part of the idea behind the ban is that it causes some very unintuitive and confusing interactions. The return to hand ability is a cost, not an effect, which effectively makes it impossible to remove using enchantment removal. Once Nightmare resolves, the casting player immediately receives priority, and thus can activate its ability, and since paying costs doesn't use the stack, they return it to their hand before anyone has an opportunity to respond. If it were part of the effect, it could simply be blown up in response to the activation. This basically leaves you with a 3-mana sorcery that says sac a creature to return a creature, with buyback 0. Had it been phrased this way, it might still be arguably banworthy, but the the strange, feels-bad interactions ("You mean it's an enchantment but I can't even Krosan Grip it?"), in addition to the power level, are what keeps it banned.
@@mitrimind1027 Corpse Dance costs a total of 5 if you want to buy it back, is limited in what it can target, and exiles the creature at EOT. That's a lot different than what Recurring Nightmare does.
@@Jedibob5 doesn't require a creature sac though, but that's besides the point. It's still reusable recursion that's not stopped by permanent removal. But look, any deck can grave hate to stop it, otherwise commanders like Karrador would be op anyways.
@@mitrimind1027 You're not wrong, but the weird and counterintuitive interactions that Nightmare presents are enough for the RC to want to keep it out of the format.
The main reason Coalition Victory is banned over all the other "easy" alt-win cards (seriously, Felidar Sovereign just wants you to have your starting life total), is that it wins on the spot, while every other one waits until your next upkeep.
If Thassa's Oracle is allowed, so should Biorhthym and Coalition Victory. It's the exact same principle: a non-interactive instant win, just MUCH cheaper and easier!
Balance requires a multi-card combo to create the worst case scenario. Every third of Balance's effect is legal on several distinct cards. There are more resource-intensive means to execute Balance's text box which are currently legal (Magus of the Balance, Restore Balance). It should not be banned. If Blue can prevent an Explosive Vegetation by keeping up one mana, why can't White, the "answers color", deal with it afterwords at an affordable rate?
@@ghostofkrows The rate is competitive with, oh, I don't know, Blue's free answers. You will never get the best deal on all three prongs of the spell. The cost of casting Balance is more than just the mana. The entire reason it was banned at all was that there was a really horrific ten-player game back in the nineties where it was used alongside the power nine. Balance didn't ruin that game, three Moxen on turn 1 did. Yet we still don't have access to White's greatest equalizer. Before we beg for new tools, we ought to explore the ones we deny ourselves.
My old playgroup in high school allowed one banned card in our decks, but that card had to be approved by our committee. I got to play with Griselbrand in my Meren deck, but that deck was not competitive in the slightest so he didn’t do a whole lot for me lol.
@@a.velderrain8849 Emrakul wasn't banned at first, you understand that edh has been around for over a decade now right? Shaharazad wasn't banned at first either nor was gifts ungiven
channel was restricted back in '94 before formats were a thing and banned in vintage and standard in '95, in no small part because mountain, lotus, channel, fireball was a turn 1 kill (it was later put back on restricted list). but yeah, it got banned in commander right after emrakul got printed and a couple months before emrakul got banned.
I do not miss a single one of these cards save paradox engine. Each and every one of these threats warp the entire table around them and the game became who could control X permanent or copy Y permanent. Good riddance Prime time? Oh boy he’s gonna grab cradle and something. Oh boy he’s gonna grab urborg and cabal coffers. Oh boy if this stays unanswered we are all going to lose. I remember when most of these were legal. They were ridiculous and it felt like -1 deck slot per card. You’d be dumb not to run prime time or.. sylvan primordial etc.
@200StringGuitar A 6 mana 6/6 trampler that searches for any 2 lands on ETB AND on attack, and puts them on the board. And obviously, as it is a creature it is rather easy to cheat it on board early.
I used to have someone at my table who would not play anything on his first turn so he would be forced to discard. He discarded Iona shield of emeria, then played Reanimate on turn 2 to bring Iona on the battlefield. Yes he would do this at every game.
For a while, I ran a five-color Commander that did a lot of graveyard play. One of my favorite things to do, if I got the right opening hand, was to throw Primeval Titan, Anger, and some other random into the graveyard with buried alive on turn 1. Here comes animate dead into Primeval Titan on turn two. Here comes six lands on turn two. I'm only a little sad that Primetime was banned.
So Thassa's Oracle may be called for a ban in EDH because it's too much of a "I cast and I win" card? It's an alternate win condition at sorcery speed (like Biorhytm and Coalition Victory) that win the game here and there without allowing much leeway for an answer in non-cEDH tables. Be aware, I'm not asking for it. I'm just saying that there may be enough conceptual reasons to call for it since I can't see Coalition Victory as being definitively stronger than Thassa's Oracle (if not the other way).
Juicy_Corgi There isn’t any Throne or TBD cards I think are worth a banning, but if there was a ban I’d expect Narset, Parter and Flash the most, with a potential unban
I always find Iona's ban kindof weird. There are a lot of other stax cards that are much worse and much cheaper. As for Iona as a commander, 9 cmc seems pretty prohibitive for most monoW decks
I think that he failed to mention her combo with painter servant, which basically locks the entire table. I run an Avacyn angel tribal deck and Iona is one of the few really powerful angel finishers, shame I cant use her.
Most decks that would play Iona probably wouldn't be monowhite with her as the commander. They'd most likely be a reanimator-style deck that'd bring her into play with Animate Dead/Reanimate/etc. So it's more like "one person can't play the game for 1-4 mana" most of the time. Plus, ramp is just really good, Sol Ring and Mana Crypt and Worn Powerstone and Ancient Tomb all that, so getting Iona isn't quite as difficult, even in a mono-white deck.
Yeah I totally agree with you Karen, unfortunately white doesn't get that many good cards compared to the other colors in commander, and the ones that are good, cant be played in white because they'll be abused by other colors hahaha
It only took me the purchasing of Balance, Tinker, Erayo and Karakas before i finally realized i should look at the ban list before buying powerful cards. This was a nice reminder since I've been eyeing Upheaval.
I'm surprised more "if X is true or happens, you win the game" cards aren't banned, like Test of Endurance, Felidar Sovereign, or Revel in Riches. Sure, they have to remain in play for a while before they win, but they still equate to cast-and-win. Elvish Piper + Felidar Sovereign or any other instant speed effect that lets you put a creature on the field can negate a lot of counters or targeted removal, so still pretty dangerous
I'd love to see a video delving more into whether or not you think they SHOULD be banned. For instance, is Coalition Victory really that much worse than something like Felidar Sovereign or Approach of the Second Sun?
Just noticed this video dropped today after about halfway through just off the fact its new enough to reference the ban of Paradox Engine i checked date and was just lil surprised as youtube never recommends me new stuff lol newer to commander but love this channel btw!!
I think one of the weakest things that could get unbanned would be Sylvan Primordial. Yes the effect is abusable with blinks, but there’s combos that straight up win the game by subbing out Sylvan. And with regular play not in a combo deck, it’s a +6 but there’s other cards that are cheaper that have just as big of a swing. And for auto-includes in decks, we already have stuff like Cyclonic Rift and such unbanned which have similar board control effects.
I have a Shahrazad removal deck. I only play it on request. My play group likes to test new decks against it. It is not meant to win the sub game, but to exile so much of your deck it becomes unplayable. When the sub game is over, the deck you return to the original game with is not the deck you originally built. If the deck is still playable after the sub game, they deem it a good deck.
@@Ouja From Gatherer: "At the end of a subgame, each player puts all cards they own that are in the subgame into their library in the main game, then shuffles them. This includes cards in the subgame’s Exile zone."
I'm trying to build a blue/green Squirrel deck for Commander. Just got the Squirrel commander from MH2 and have many other great choices to put in the deck. Getting excited about making it. :D
Trade secrets is literally putting your life in your opponent’s hand you’re draw twice as many card unless you milled them way down couldn’t they just keep repeating until you mill out
"trade secrets was not desinged with an multiplayer gamemode in mind" thats why its form the original Commander Precons i guess ... the bigger problem with it is that target opponent should and probably will mill you out while drawing half of his deck so its like "target opponent wins the game, you loose the game" which could be toxic PS: oh misread that part, thanks for clarification
My deck got nerfed big time when prophet went on the banned list. I would love to see a deck built with Damia, Sage of Stone and Villianous Wealth though lol
Emrakul can't be that tough if she can't stop fifteen flying squirrels
Fool! Emrakul has Annihilator 6! That means you need at least 21 squirrels to defeat him dummy
@@Atlasbr001 Fool! A true, brave Planeswalker would gladly sacrifice his lands to stop the great Emrakul!
@@Atlasbr001 Fool! You fell for it! Thunder cross split attack!!
also cant stop a dude on a horse
1/1 deathtouch Rat has entered the chat
"trade secrets wasn't designed with commander in mind"
*shows version from commander set*
rampagingraptor it was originally printed in onslaught.
@@rampagingraptor coughONSLAUGHTcough
@rampagingraptor Use Scryfall instead.
@@Gestaltzerfall Hey thanks I didn't know about Scryfall. Very cool.
Cards that are busted as hell in a format but not yet banned are usually put in products where they would be used powerfully, but the original creation of the card likely did not test the full ramifications.
Stoneforge Mystic was in an FNM precon but the deck that got her banned used more blue.
Played a 4 player pod with 1 banned card allowed (proxy was ok) my friend sits down and sets out his narset deck. Turn 8 and he puts 24 copies of shaharazad on the stack
Oof
Remember when that card wasn't banned? Good times
This lad knows what fun is! :D but on a side note after the first copy resolves and the subsequent sub game is won does the other 23 copies just stay on the stack waiting for the first sub game to end?
@@akselhansen304 yup
@@GardeniaCreations legit the best use of a banned card ever absolutely genius
First up is wayfarer’s bauble
Sam Payne They should ban it because the price for it is starting to get too high.
Sorry, quite new to commanders format (and magic in general). Why it is considered such a good card?
@@HappySmileLV ramp and fixing for virtually any deck on turn 2 (play it turn one, crack it turn 2). It's generally an effect limited to green otherwise and those effects are widely played in green decks, thus it is also a desired effect in non-green decks.
HappySmile123 It’s just good colorless ramp, meaning it can go with any deck. As well, it’s pretty cheap, but it could use a reprint
@@HappySmileLV theyre just joking
my fav bit of mtg lore is that a dude ripped his chaos orb into bits and sprinkled them over his opponent's entire board destroying everything. They made an unhinged card called chaos confetti to commemorate it.
That actually happened??? Wait. Is that what The Gamers: Hands of Fate was parodying at the end????
@@MrSlimJimProductions This is widely considered to be an urban myth. My favorite addendum to the lore on this one is that it occurred in tournament play and the opponent called a judge for a deck count to find that in ripping up the orb the player had reduced his deck count to 59 cards and received a DQ as a result.
@@isaoblack987 also there was the call that it would be considered a "marked card" also making him forfeit.
@@isaoblack987 this was before rules enforcement levels, and the rules were changed because of it
@@isaoblack987 wow that's such a big brain judge call
How to win a one-banned-card game of Commander:
1. Play Kenrith
2. Get any infinite colored mana combo online
3. Use Kenrith's abilities to gain your opponents infinite life, and draw them out until they have exactly 6 cards in their library
4. Play Nivix Guildmage
5. Cast Shahrazad and copy it infinite times with Nivix
6. You go to the subgame, and your opponents instantly lose due to decking out in their opening hands
7. Opponents lose half of their infinite life in the main game
8. The next Shahrazad resolves, rinse and repeat
9. Your opponents are trapped in an infinite loop of losing for all eternity
1) there is no way to get "infinite" mana.
2) there is no way to give your opponents "infinite" life.
3) there is no way to copy a spell an "infinite" amount of times
4) they scoop before you even get through half this stuff
5) comments like these show how much someone really knows about mtg.
Its almost like its a joke or something lmfao
@@fallendeus5641 What are you talking about? "going Infinite" is a very well established term in the magic vernacular. It refers to the process of demonstrating a loop and then taking a shortcut as described in Comprehensive Rules 725. Taking Shortcuts.
@@fallendeus5641 if it is pre agreed upon that you may only concede at sorcery speed (the only way I ever play) then they would be stuck.
Also going infinite in this example would mean he could give his opponents as much life as he chose whenever he had priority, which is as close to infinite as is logically attainable.
You are the fool here not anyone else. Scrub.
That won't work out that easy since your opponent can mulligan down to 0 in Subgames.
Kinda ironic that a card named "balance" was ruled as too unfair
It is clearly the ALM version of a magic card. "LOOK ITS FAIR IM SUFFERING TOO"
Especially since white has very little support/capabilities in edh
It's a symmetrical affect its totally fair lol
@@nzephier balance is way too far as a support card. Use free rocks, barely any creatures, empty hand by slinging cheap spells. Now when you cast balance you lose nothing and everyone else loses almost every permanent and card in hand. Would just buff any multicolour deck that can spew its hand. Mono w would probably be a bad place to run balance unless it was enchantment/artifact based stax, but stax pieces are typically 2-3cmc so you wouldn't get full value because of how slow those decks can be at dumping their hand
“Provide mana for too little cost or too easily” sol ring: violent sweating
On turns 1, 2, and kind of 3. Sol Ring turn 6 and forward is almost always a let down. That is why it isn’t banned.
@_Ceygar_ Lotus is essentially banned due to being part of the Power Nine, and being far more powerful than Sol Ring.
@_Ceygar_ its funny cause statistically players lose more than they win if they open turn 1 sol ring.
@@liveandletdie4233 Yup, makes you an archenemy. That's why you wait til t2-3.
Sol ring would be banned at this point if it wasnt such a staple
"And the rules committee really doesnt like stax"
*laughs in Urza*
@@XCodes Urza is worse. If you play Urza and you opponents get you in the corner, you’d gladly tap your Winter Orb and Static Orb for two blue mana to crank out the Counterspell…
@@luziferius3687 There is a reason I run Energy Flux and Stony Silence in Estrid.
The why is always most interesting part of the Ban List.
dragon ball talk did you just have a stroke on your keyboard
I kind of disagree. It’s usually really obvious why something is banned.
And can mostly be chalked up to ‘we don’t like playing against it’
@@tylerdenneson7320 You think it's power level, and you're wrong. It's cards that look like they might be fun, but take the fun out of the game. The rules committee is OK with people doing brutal cutthroat stuff on purpose.
Joseph Mathes uh. You just assumed a lot about what “I think.” To be honest their criteria is different for every card they ban, but it’s always very obvious. You’re the one who thinks they know something other people don’t.
Trade Secrets: "Obviously this wasn't designed with a multiplayer format in mind."
*Has original Commander set symbol in the corner*
It was originally printed in Onslaught, but I think Mitch just defaults to the latest border on most cards. Or maybe it was deliberate irony.
Is a reprint from Onslaught
@@zotmaster still the fact that they printed it in a commander product is dumb
Someone at our table played it in combination with Niv-Mizzet. It was so busted! you could just make every player except yourself and one other lose the game. We found it it was banned right after the game was over...
Came here to say this
Back when Iona was legal, I played against it with my Sakashima the Imposter deck.
I cast desertion on his Iona while it was waiting to be resolved.
I named white for my first Iona, then Black for my Sakashima clone of it.
After I cast mirror gallery I named every other color with my clone army of Iona’s.
All my opponents could do is lamely play mana rocks as they got railroaded my angels.
We didn’t allow Iona at the table after that. Lol
I'm surprised there isn't another comment about the new Sakashima being a Mirror gallery on legs. You're probably a psychic of some kind.
My brother had a really annoying pillow fort Eight and a Half Tails mono white that had Iona and Painter's Servant in it. Needless to say he was hard targeted the moment he started getting too cushy in his stupid little fort.
I don't think Iona was the problem at the table it was the lockout from cloning it and removing the legend rule mostly Mirror Gallery in general as the legend rule was put there for a reason and cards like Mirror Gallery and Helm of the Host that fucks with that are not good with the game and breaks stuff like Iona too easily. So i would have suggested on banning Mirror Gallery and any other card that fucks with the legend rule as again there is a reason why that rule is there in the first place yet when there are cards that circumvents or straight up ignore that rule it breaks everything as legendary creatures are designed to be strong because of the rule
@@justinanderson2631 I was so hyped when the new sakashima released!! My favorite thing to do in commander is break the legendary rule. I still run Sakashima the Imposter as my commander, but he is definitely in the 99.
@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena I would disagree. Having multiples of a particular permanent or legendary creature in it of itself doesn't break the game. One of my main win conditions for the deck is having an army of Marit Lages swarm the board, and most of the time it dies to a cyclonic rift or a mass exile board wipe. The only reason Sakashima got out of hand was because someone chose to play Iona, and they purposely played it to lock out some of the mono colored decks in our play group. When you have cards in the command zone that say "If I successfully cast this, you cannot play" it ruins the atmosphere of commander.
My mirror gallery can be removed. A player can counterspell it on the stack, or destroy it with countless removal spells. Once Iona is out and names a color, I cannot respond. That is the main difference. when that game happened, it showed how impossible it was to actually respond to Iona once she choses your color.
Why punish players for playing mono-colored EDH????
"And here we have Cyclonic Rift..."
... And then I wake up.
KataangFan221 - totally agree...card should never have been made
Rift isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.
@@fallsenseless9699 if someone plays Rift and doesn't win right away the game lasts forever. It also puts you at a huge advantage without any need for strategy in play or deck construction; it just goes in every deck with blue. It's a boring card that creates boring gamestates.
Sean McDonald its also 7 mana and requires the player casting it to draw pass most of the time. Unless you rift someone with their whole deck on the field its mostly a 1 turn set back. Also interaction is also a thing people can do. If most decks can slot rift then the can afford to run a few counters.
@@fallsenseless9699 someone draw-passing so they can bounce their opponents board is boring. People having to counter it so they don't have to restart at a huge deficit and discard a bunch of cards is boring. My whole point is that Rift creates uninteresting game states. Even symmetrical bounce spells, as much as they grind the game to a halt also create lame gamestates, require deck construction and a gameplan during play to take advantage of the effect. Rift requires neither.
If it were banned, every single deck with blue just got one more slot that could be filled with an actually cool card.
I would thoroughly enjoy a video that looks at cards with similar effects to these banned cards.
"How to pretend your favorite card isn't banned"
Shaman of the Forgotten Ways has Biorhythm on a stick. My Simic buddy has won way too many games after a Cyclonic Rift that way.
@@FutureOverYou yeah cyclonic is pretty meta with my group but imo it's worse than upheavel. It's literally a one sided upheavel. We just get to keep our lands like wtf so? My board state is still wide open now and my opponent's isn't.
Great idea for a video.
As someone who doesn't play EDH, I often feel lost when I see certain bans. Breaking down why those cards are problematic in this multiplayer format is something that always intrigued me.
Worldfire + Teferi's Protection would be the most amazing instant win ever. Or just Ghostway.
I like floating enough Mana to cast Upheaval followed by Jin-Gitaxias. Seems really fun.
@@a.velderrain8849 you can sunder though :^)
And they said boros was the weakest color pair in commander. Lmao
Worldfire+any suspended eldrazi ou w/w in old jhoira is the reason.
I had a fun deck a while back that used Worldfire in combination with Near Death Experience under Oblivion Ring. Was a lot of work to set up, but felt so good when I made it work.
*sees Wayfarer’s Bauble*
*cries in Mitch*
I've really been loving the wide variety of videos you've been putting out with commander's 2cents
Once upon a time, they understood the difference in power between a creature as a commander and a creature in deck. There were cards banned outright and cards banned only as commanders.
I miss having a Braids maindeck.
coalition victory is a pretty controversial ban, IIRC: it's really not that good, and there are other alternative win condition cards that are not banned and easier to activate.
This is a true statement. Coalition is banned because its not considered "fun". Check the RC website. When i saw that i wanted to punch someone
While there are other wincons that may be easier to activate, they all provide a larger window for interaction. Felidar Sovereign waits until your upkeep, giving everyone time to untap and use removal or to lower your life. Other cards require time to build up counters, etc. Coalition Victory wins on resolution. Don't have a counterspell? Too bad, game over. Not even playing blue? You never had a chance.
@@coreyroberson4550 Agreed. It's too easy to win off coalition victory in a 5 color deck, especially when fetch and dual lands can cover the spell's cost
@@coreyroberson4550 the condition is checked on resolution, so you can remove the land and/or creature at instant speed.
@@zeroisnine But only if you have mana untapped AND the appropriate removal in hand. There's no waiting to untap or draw into an answer. It's now or never. If you spent your turn developing your board because you didn't expect an "I win" spell with the slimmest of interaction windows, you lose.
"In Rules Comitee they dont like Stax" - Stasis still at 1st salt place at EDHrec.
Braids shouldn't be banned.
@@kingfuzzy2 until it is in play every 2nd turn when you have only lands. And the braids player went first. Its way too easy just draw crypt, sol ring or dark ritual. And 2 swamps. If he can follow it up with a bitter blossom all the better. It was too consistent with it being in your command zone.
@Pale King that's pretty spicy for a zur deck what is ur worst matchup?
Rofellos: *Is banned*
Selvala: “I’m in danger!”
Larkus Macaroni nah no where near the same
@@peewee130946 selvala can consitently turn 3 a table. Its pretty close
Selvala needs far more set up. You need big creature, Selvale is 3 Mana, and needs a green to activate.
A better comparison is probably Bloom Tender. Only needs a 5 color permanent to produce WUBRG.
Chaotic A-Game the ban list is not for cedh decks it’s for normal edh and in normal edg selvala is good and rofellos is insane
@@peewee130946 yeah I can't remember a time that rofellos wasn't banned from the command zone. But I remember when it was part of the 99 and if I remember clearly a turn 1 Sol Ring isn't scarier than a turn 2 rofellos. It was like prime time coming up next turn 3 and then it is like a really big genesis wave next.
Banning sylvan primordial and unbanning protean hulk felt like a slap to my sanity
Hey, flash is banned now so at least flash hulk is over.
A few notes
Time Walk: I’ve seen a CEDH game with no banned list. The whole game was centered around time walk and trying to play it as much as possible, while also countering other time walls.
Balance: It’s worth noting that this card does not affect Artifacts, enchantments, or planeswalkers. So if your deck is reliant on them, you pretty much win
Karakas: I think the fact that this card is a land is the main reason it is banned. If it was an artifact or a creature, you could easily get rid of it, but lands are much harder to get rid of and land destruction is generally descourage.
I used to play with a house rule where you could play karakas but it could only target non commanders. A lot of banned cards are fair and fun if you aren’t using it for a busted combo.
Damn, I didn't even know Erayo was banned in commander. I almost got her for my flicker life gain deck because with how I can abuse etb effects that allow me to untap lands and fetch a instant or sorcery to my hand and create a loop that would easily allow me to transform her in one turn. Yea I can see why she was banned now.
@@NeoAxiom That's crazy shiz, I'm really glad I didn't buy her now, I would have wasted 7 dollars lol. #themoreyouknow
Yeah, Erayo is gross. I used to run it in Edric because it had flying, and it got flipped nearly every time it hit the board. I actually felt good removing it when it got banned.
And way back, I had a 60-card deck that could drop and flip Erayo on turn 2, followed by an Arcane Laboratory on turn 3. It was only fun to see people's reactions but not really fun to play.
@@coreyroberson4550 omg that sounds gross AF lol! Yea I would have felt so scummy if I ended up getting her but am glad I went with getting dovin's veto instead just because I didn't know she was banned until I saw this vid.
Same here but I did buy now I'm stuck with it
@@acetracker9469 damn that always sucks when shit like that happens.
I ran Upheaval for a few games before someone pointed out that it's banned, and with the deck I was running it truly was "I cast it and I win", so I understand, my bad.
And yet cyclonic rift.
@@JJcheesy In my experience, the Rift leaves the land on the table, thus not 100% guaranteeing my win. A well planned Upheaval is a slam-dunk, game over... But, yeah the Cyclonic Rift is super-powerful.
Seeing some of these I'm surprised some of the cards I use aren't banned. Sage of Hours and Primal Surge have always been "I win" cards in my decks. I've got the Sage in my Ezuri, Claw of Progress deck and Primal Surge in my sliver deck ATM.
@@IanPeon cyclonic is one sided though! Literally gets rid of everyone else's stuff but the caster. Sure you keep lands but so does the caster and they keep their board state also. Maybe if it effected the caster too I'd see it as fair.
Love learning different things in MTG your channel allows that to happen easily ty. I shouted you out in my last video. I was talking about you putting an Eldrazi in a silent submersible lol. Keep up the awesome vids
Yeehaw. I said that because it's my emotion right now. Because this channel is great.
I’ve never been here this soon before
Emrakul really felt like wizards tried to make a card as busted as possible
Actually that was jace the mindsulpture. WOTC did a interview saying they would push a plainswalker as much as possible for standard play. Emrakul was the nice toy we got for being good well behaved magic players. Remember Emrakul is older than commander.
"Free mana is a dangerous thing, especially if it sticks around"
*sneaky sol ring noises*
Momrakul doesn’t deserve this treatment
Missed a key thing about Leovold. Sure it's nasty with the wheels, but it is also in the best colors to tutor for said wheel effects. Black can get any of them; blue can get instants, sorceries, and artifacts; and green can get any creatures or lands that support it, such as ones that return the needed cards from your graveyard to your hand.
I remember the days of Prophet. The most egregious example I saw of it was when a guy had prophet, dumped his hand, activated a bunch of abilities, and then said “alright, I’ll end my turn.” He forgot that it wasn’t his turn.
Prophet of Crufix... still LOVE that card.
Technically Emrakul should be in the "commanders" category. The reason originally given for the ban was because people were putting her in the command zone.
This is one the reasons I want banned as commander back. War Narset also basically does what Leovold does. While I do agree Emrakul is too strong even as part of the 99.
@@123456789123456789re Its even worse in the 99 (kinda) since you can cheat it out with stuff like sneak attack
@@darksteelmenace595 its way more broken in 99 than commander
@@123456789123456789re narscet is a planeswalker, so she's not invulnerable.
I will decide to take seven extra turns with my black lotus
That's deece
Looking at the ban list is very interesting for building a commander cube. Since the decks can't be optimized some these cards may not be broken
Very true. Designing a cube would actually create new tiers of power level, and potentially ban-worthy cards.
I played a “all cards except ante and shaherazad are legal” commander game once, and it was actually really fun. We all played with proxies. I played a chronomancy themed Urza artifact deck, and discovered the silliest of extra turn combos: Isochron scepter + time walk, + time vault + clock of omens + sundial of the infinite. Thing is, I was only alive at the behest of the person playing Lord Windgrace, because he drew channel earlier in the game, and used channel + bane fire to bring me down to like 3 life. In exchange, I didn’t go fully infinite, and just sat in my pillow fort, using soul foundry (I think it was soul foundry, but it might have been mimic vat) to produce a copy of darksteel colossus per turn, in order to defeat for the mono black player, who had platinum angel equipped with lightning greaves and darksteel plate, plus Yawgmoth’s draw enchantment, and K’rick, son of Yawgmoth as his commander. The game eventually ended, the fourth player had cast reverberate on a kicked rite of replication, targeting his Primordial Hydra, while having doubling season in play, only to die three turns later when the k’rrick player cast Pthisis on one of his hydras, the Windgrace player conceded when the k’rrick player cast grave pact followed by rise of the dark realms, and then she and I agreed to call it a draw from there, because I could take infinite turns (and thus get infinite darksteel colossi) but had no real way of killing her, short of casting wish and choosing the card ‘Richard Garfield, Phd.’, in order to get access to an emrakul. and the game had gone on for 4 hours by that point. Dumbest game I ever played, but also a great deal of fun. Other highlights of that game were the green player casting stone-cold basilisk, and petrifying the rest of the table, and the lord Windgrace player playing eldrazi conscription on a 1/1 badger, only to have that badger bravely give its life to kill wormcoil engine.
Every time I look in my binder and see Prophet of Kruphix, I cry. It's one of those busted cards that are the only reason the garbage decks I build have any chance of success.
It shouldn't be banned plenty of ways to remove creatures.
@@kingfuzzy2 it's pretty strong if you run a deck that prevents people from removing creatures
@@Shadow-yd5ix even mass exile? But yes you are mostly right
@@kingfuzzy2 if you can set up a deck that hexproofs it or gives colored protection yes.
@@Shadow-yd5ix yes
With Tolarian academy, WotC basically just banned Urza’s ability 😂
Me who's been using Iona Shield of Emeria as my commander for months: 👁️👄👁️
Time walk was supposed to be a card that cost 1{R} and said "target opponent loses his or her next turn", which was supposed to mean that your opponent lost the turn, not the game, but since it was confusing it was changed to blue and it gives you an extra turn instead
Well, in a 1v1 format that does give you an extra turn, and in a multiplayer format it just makes some else lose a turn for no reason and that seems pretty unfair. So if it had to be anything I’d rather it be what it is.
Oh wow, You have really grown fellow Mitch from Minnesota! This is your second most popular video and its only been a month! You have come a long way from 500 subscribers! I hope you have been doing well, stay safe my dude!
Time for the next series: Cards that should be Banned in Commander
Flash. Cyclonic rift maybe.
Next series, cards that don't need to be banned anymore
Winter orb. Decree of silence/solemnity
Cyclonic rift for sure
Dead-Eye Navigator, since he's the real reason Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial are banned
Still bummed coalition victory and biorhythm are banned. I'm an alt win Timmy, and biorhythm seems so fun to build around.
Well you still have Biorhythm on a stick. I like the extra hoop because I have a feeling players can set up Biorhythm early enough to make it an archetype.
Check out shaman of the forgotten ways. His actiated ability is biorhythm but with the stipulation of activating it only if you have a creature with 8 power or more
@@samadams5530 It's actually if you have at least 8 total power among your creatures; a pair of 3/3's and a 2/2 are enough to turn it on.
Biorhythm is unfair to spellslinger decks or decks that run few creatures
@@nabilzoubeidi9156 yeah i understand why they're banned.
I think emrakul is fine as she cant be flickered as her abilities are only cast triggered not ETB effects. And the lack of indestrucable means she is vulnerable to sweepers of any variety.
Chaos Orb was banned because a player once tore his chaos orb into several pieces before throwing it and annihilating his opponents side
Paradox engine....I remember the good times we shared.
I wanted to build a deck with it and then found out it was banned, then I realized that its wayyyyyyy to easy to abuse
@@calebb1178 I still say wrongfully banned, its so easy to remove. Besides its on record in the command zone podcast the head honcho of the commander committee didn't like the card and for years had been trying to ban it.
@@bigjohn3173 You're right, it is easy to remove but depending on whats being played it can create a feels bad round, I think it should get a redemption like some other cards but at the same time I worry that it could also really hurt the format
@@calebb1178 it is a very powerful card once it gets going, I can understand the ban. I'm guilty of building a deck with Tinker and I had no idea that was banned as well lol
@@thereluctanthireling I actually almost did the samething as you when I was building an emry deck.
Time Vault is one of those cards where the flavour to its effect is nice, and it seems fine in a vacuum; pass a turn to bank it, then take that turn as an extra turn later in the game. The issue is that there are other cards in the game that can interact with it, which removes all sense of balance from its effect.
It should read "Time Vault enters the battlefield tapped. you may choose, not to untap time vault during your untap step. Whenever time vault becomes untapped, skip your next turn."
Of course, then the combo would be sundial of the infinite with time vault, but at least sundial has a very narrow range on what it can actually do and unless you are looking for unlimited instant speed actions during the untap step, you'd still need some untap effect to go along with it so you can untap it at the end of your turn.
@@naphackDT or just "Time vault can only be untapped by sacrificing a turn" in MTG legalese
@@rockninja3 That's hard to put into plain words that Timmy at the kitchen table can still grasp.
I feel like letting time vault be exploitable by "end the turn" effects is actually fine. They are few and far between and it would require at the very least three components.
If someone set up sundial + vault + key, I'd not even be mad.
It'd be fine if time vault had shroud... Well not really. Between Unwinding Clock, Dramatic Reversal, etc, there's way too much to untap it.
@@naphackDT "Time Vault cannot be untapped except by" yada yada yada
Thoughts:
I don't think Sylvan primordial really deserves the ban. There are lots and lots of other big absurd creatures that give you lots of value when flickered or cloned.
Braids being banned is also a bit disappointing. In a format where absurd Mana ramp is common I don't think the opposite should be shunned.
As much as I love my big eldrazi beasties I agree with the Emmy ban I think a reason you didn't mention is that if she was allowed she would be ubiquitous as she's one of the best targets for huge Mana ramp. Banning her forces diversity in the big haymaker creatures played.
Paradox Engine also works with mana dorks, and it also lets you untap all your creatures after you attacked. It just does so much in one card, apart from giving you tons of mana from your mana dorks or mana rocks, you just need a way to keep drawing cards and then you have infinite mana and can just play your whole deck. There are also so many cards with powerful tap abilities you can just activate over and over again as long as you can keep casting spells. There must be so many combos with this card, and it's also an artifact, so it can fit into any deck.
I know why ur banned, prophet! I still miss you...
I wish I build a deck with Shahrazad, Enter the Dungeon, and The Countdown is at One, maybe toss in Divine Intervention.
Not to mention that chaos orb used to get ripped up before it was thrown down making it the only card in magic that became strategically viable after getting destroyed.
Everyone mentions the universal ban of Shahrazad... but I still think it's a beautiful card, representative of Richard Garfield's original whimsical intention for the game. In fact, he himself said explicitly that that's his favorite card... ;-)
Lovin your content :)
As a wise, red skinned, one eyed wizard once said "The only thing intricate about this game is it's ban list"
Of course that was about YuGiOh but hey, Magic has some intricacies with bans too.
Context? I gotta know
@@MyCommentsRMaturelol Emperor's TTS Special 5, Kitten v Tzeentch playing a Children's Card Game
The only house rule our playgroup has is we allow Primeval Titan with the clause he can only fetch basics. This limits him to essentially a ramp machine while eliminating his ability to search up combo pieces. It’s worked just fine for us over the years.
Wait but in the trade secrets card couldn’t the opponent just instantly mill you unless they had significantly less cards.
You may draw up to is in the text so the second you want to stop you just draw 1 or draw 0 for their draws lol
I love knowing the "why" of things in mtg. Thanks very much!
My poor prophet that’s what. Now I need to buy a seedborn muse :( (Ik it’s broken)
I feel like Channel's problems come because the designer didn't write out the effect well enough. The intended effect was likely meant to be "I play a land, I tap a land, I pay one life and get one and a colorless." Could probably use an errata.
Subbed. Keep up the good work.
Recurring nightmare should get unbanned, there are lots of ways to bring back creatures every turn and there is lots of good graveyard hate to shut it down anyway.
I think part of the idea behind the ban is that it causes some very unintuitive and confusing interactions. The return to hand ability is a cost, not an effect, which effectively makes it impossible to remove using enchantment removal. Once Nightmare resolves, the casting player immediately receives priority, and thus can activate its ability, and since paying costs doesn't use the stack, they return it to their hand before anyone has an opportunity to respond. If it were part of the effect, it could simply be blown up in response to the activation.
This basically leaves you with a 3-mana sorcery that says sac a creature to return a creature, with buyback 0. Had it been phrased this way, it might still be arguably banworthy, but the the strange, feels-bad interactions ("You mean it's an enchantment but I can't even Krosan Grip it?"), in addition to the power level, are what keeps it banned.
@@Jedibob5 corpse dance is a buyback reanimate spell that's still legal.
@@mitrimind1027 Corpse Dance costs a total of 5 if you want to buy it back, is limited in what it can target, and exiles the creature at EOT. That's a lot different than what Recurring Nightmare does.
@@Jedibob5 doesn't require a creature sac though, but that's besides the point. It's still reusable recursion that's not stopped by permanent removal. But look, any deck can grave hate to stop it, otherwise commanders like Karrador would be op anyways.
@@mitrimind1027 You're not wrong, but the weird and counterintuitive interactions that Nightmare presents are enough for the RC to want to keep it out of the format.
I wish they still had the banned as commander list because I feel like Rofellos is only broken as a commander, but not in the 99.
Yeah. He's a creature without any protection, that needs tapping to do something. No threat in my meta.
Agree, that change on the ban rules still baffles me to this day.
Agreed
Bumbum Inspector Same. It’s a slightly worse Gaies Cradle tbf. Broken if repeatable, but not if it can just be dealt with.
He's an elf, he'd littlerly be amazing In the 99
The main reason Coalition Victory is banned over all the other "easy" alt-win cards (seriously, Felidar Sovereign just wants you to have your starting life total), is that it wins on the spot, while every other one waits until your next upkeep.
If Thassa's Oracle is allowed, so should Biorhthym and Coalition Victory. It's the exact same principle: a non-interactive instant win, just MUCH cheaper and easier!
But you could say the same about Lab maniac and Jace wielder of mysteries.
Thassa's Oracle is a new card, i don't doubt the comitee are testing and looking into the card.
Guess I should've watched this earlier today- I just ordered a Leovold!
Holy fucking shit what an opening. 2 minutes in I thought this might be a joke video that never actually got to the title subject.
Chill
Balance requires a multi-card combo to create the worst case scenario. Every third of Balance's effect is legal on several distinct cards. There are more resource-intensive means to execute Balance's text box which are currently legal (Magus of the Balance, Restore Balance). It should not be banned. If Blue can prevent an Explosive Vegetation by keeping up one mana, why can't White, the "answers color", deal with it afterwords at an affordable rate?
Rate is a little 2 good. I agree white needs stronger cards. Hope we get some this year.
@@ghostofkrows The rate is competitive with, oh, I don't know, Blue's free answers. You will never get the best deal on all three prongs of the spell. The cost of casting Balance is more than just the mana.
The entire reason it was banned at all was that there was a really horrific ten-player game back in the nineties where it was used alongside the power nine. Balance didn't ruin that game, three Moxen on turn 1 did. Yet we still don't have access to White's greatest equalizer.
Before we beg for new tools, we ought to explore the ones we deny ourselves.
@@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos Fair point and good argument.You have my vote.
@@ghostofkrows You have no idea how nice it is to read this. I feel like I'm on crazy pills every time Balance comes up in conversation.
My old playgroup in high school allowed one banned card in our decks, but that card had to be approved by our committee. I got to play with Griselbrand in my Meren deck, but that deck was not competitive in the slightest so he didn’t do a whole lot for me lol.
Channel is banned because the old trick was to play Channel then play Fireball. Hence the tcg store named... ChannelFireball.
Channel fireball doesn't win a commander game
Channel was banned in edh because turn 2 Emrakul to take an extra turn was too crazy
@@punishedcranky3119 except Emrakul is banned too... so, not possible.
@@a.velderrain8849 Emrakul wasn't banned at first, you understand that edh has been around for over a decade now right? Shaharazad wasn't banned at first either nor was gifts ungiven
channel was restricted back in '94 before formats were a thing and banned in vintage and standard in '95, in no small part because mountain, lotus, channel, fireball was a turn 1 kill (it was later put back on restricted list). but yeah, it got banned in commander right after emrakul got printed and a couple months before emrakul got banned.
MoeHolyGhost no, but Channel/Exsanguinate does.
I do not miss a single one of these cards save paradox engine. Each and every one of these threats warp the entire table around them and the game became who could control X permanent or copy Y permanent. Good riddance
Prime time? Oh boy he’s gonna grab cradle and something. Oh boy he’s gonna grab urborg and cabal coffers. Oh boy if this stays unanswered we are all going to lose. I remember when most of these were legal. They were ridiculous and it felt like -1 deck slot per card. You’d be dumb not to run prime time or.. sylvan primordial etc.
@200StringGuitar A 6 mana 6/6 trampler that searches for any 2 lands on ETB AND on attack, and puts them on the board. And obviously, as it is a creature it is rather easy to cheat it on board early.
@200StringGuitar he's one of the two cards I vehemently hate but I'd allow it to be unbanned if there's an erata.
I used to have someone at my table who would not play anything on his first turn so he would be forced to discard. He discarded Iona shield of emeria, then played Reanimate on turn 2 to bring Iona on the battlefield. Yes he would do this at every game.
For a while, I ran a five-color Commander that did a lot of graveyard play. One of my favorite things to do, if I got the right opening hand, was to throw Primeval Titan, Anger, and some other random into the graveyard with buried alive on turn 1.
Here comes animate dead into Primeval Titan on turn two.
Here comes six lands on turn two. I'm only a little sad that Primetime was banned.
So Thassa's Oracle may be called for a ban in EDH because it's too much of a "I cast and I win" card? It's an alternate win condition at sorcery speed (like Biorhytm and Coalition Victory) that win the game here and there without allowing much leeway for an answer in non-cEDH tables.
Be aware, I'm not asking for it. I'm just saying that there may be enough conceptual reasons to call for it since I can't see Coalition Victory as being definitively stronger than Thassa's Oracle (if not the other way).
I'm not salty, but this merfolk is pure salty. Really strong card, in my opinion, more than paradox or Iona etc.
@@pippofelipe6901 that just sounds like a lot of salt
It's a harder to interact with Lab Maniac, that much is true.
@@steveng6721 the Ocean itself
@Najawin let the filthy casuals in their bubble.
Had me worried that there were new bans
same
What new cards do you think would of made the list?
Juicy_Corgi There isn’t any Throne or TBD cards I think are worth a banning, but if there was a ban I’d expect Narset, Parter and Flash the most, with a potential unban
@@GigaLordShinyMudkip1 new nissa and the new royal scions.
Thanks for explaining these banned cards. I know a bunch of ppl who play commander and I really want to start playing.
Always love your videos bro
22 of those cards are legal in 1v1 commander😁
Still don’t like how Coalition Victory is banned just due to the rules committee not liking the card.
How so?
@@ShinySprites It's so easy to STOP the combo, it folds to ANY interaction.
@@jinshootingstar bUt iT dIeS tO rEmOvAl
@@ShinySprites The other 10% is Thassa's Oracle related combos lmao
@@MrSocrates_ I can't play paradox but they can do everything with Oracle. The salty is real
Those last few cards should be silver border. My goodness; First edition really was a wild west type of game.
The biggest issue of time walk is probably the isochron sceptre combo
That doesn't work as you can only imprint instants onto Isochron Septer.
paradox engine died for our sins(loving untap effects) :P
Paradox died for the sins of casuals who don’t run artifact hate.
@@ZakanaHachihaCBC right you are sir. XD gah I loved it in my Rhys the redeemed deck.
It's such a tragedy. Pun intended.
I always find Iona's ban kindof weird. There are a lot of other stax cards that are much worse and much cheaper. As for Iona as a commander, 9 cmc seems pretty prohibitive for most monoW decks
I think that he failed to mention her combo with painter servant, which basically locks the entire table. I run an Avacyn angel tribal deck and Iona is one of the few really powerful angel finishers, shame I cant use her.
Most decks that would play Iona probably wouldn't be monowhite with her as the commander. They'd most likely be a reanimator-style deck that'd bring her into play with Animate Dead/Reanimate/etc. So it's more like "one person can't play the game for 1-4 mana" most of the time. Plus, ramp is just really good, Sol Ring and Mana Crypt and Worn Powerstone and Ancient Tomb all that, so getting Iona isn't quite as difficult, even in a mono-white deck.
Before they ban random things, they should talk and debates with the community. I think that's would improve dialogue
@@pippofelipe6901 You mean the ten years we talked about Iona before they finally banned her?
Yeah I totally agree with you Karen, unfortunately white doesn't get that many good cards compared to the other colors in commander, and the ones that are good, cant be played in white because they'll be abused by other colors hahaha
It only took me the purchasing of Balance, Tinker, Erayo and Karakas before i finally realized i should look at the ban list before buying powerful cards. This was a nice reminder since I've been eyeing Upheaval.
I'm surprised more "if X is true or happens, you win the game" cards aren't banned, like Test of Endurance, Felidar Sovereign, or Revel in Riches. Sure, they have to remain in play for a while before they win, but they still equate to cast-and-win. Elvish Piper + Felidar Sovereign or any other instant speed effect that lets you put a creature on the field can negate a lot of counters or targeted removal, so still pretty dangerous
Out of all the banned cards, only 2 were red lol.
The set everyone's life total to one card is the only card that should be banned in edh : p
It depends on whether you count coalition victory.
I'll count it.
I'd love to see a video delving more into whether or not you think they SHOULD be banned. For instance, is Coalition Victory really that much worse than something like Felidar Sovereign or Approach of the Second Sun?
Just noticed this video dropped today after about halfway through just off the fact its new enough to reference the ban of Paradox Engine i checked date and was just lil surprised as youtube never recommends me new stuff lol
newer to commander but love this channel btw!!
I think one of the weakest things that could get unbanned would be Sylvan Primordial. Yes the effect is abusable with blinks, but there’s combos that straight up win the game by subbing out Sylvan. And with regular play not in a combo deck, it’s a +6 but there’s other cards that are cheaper that have just as big of a swing. And for auto-includes in decks, we already have stuff like Cyclonic Rift and such unbanned which have similar board control effects.
Ahh library of Alexandria: how many cards I've drawn on the old PC MtG game with you. Can be had IRL for the low, low price of $750 too 😅
playing shahrazad in EDH is just going to make the game last forever lol
in a Stax deck (evil grin)
I'd like that very much.
I have a Shahrazad removal deck. I only play it on request. My play group likes to test new decks against it. It is not meant to win the sub game, but to exile so much of your deck it becomes unplayable. When the sub game is over, the deck you return to the original game with is not the deck you originally built. If the deck is still playable after the sub game, they deem it a good deck.
@@Ouja From Gatherer: "At the end of a subgame, each player puts all cards they own that are in the subgame into their library in the main game, then shuffles them. This includes cards in the subgame’s Exile zone."
I'm trying to build a blue/green Squirrel deck for Commander. Just got the Squirrel commander from MH2 and have many other great choices to put in the deck. Getting excited about making it. :D
Really enjoyed this video. Had to go back a couple of times when you went into overdrive speed talking but very informative. :)
Trade secrets is literally putting your life in your opponent’s hand you’re draw twice as many card unless you milled them way down couldn’t they just keep repeating until you mill out
It does say "up to" so you can decide to draw any number of cards up to 4. So if you need to decline to draw you can.
"trade secrets was not desinged with an multiplayer gamemode in mind"
thats why its form the original Commander Precons i guess ...
the bigger problem with it is that target opponent should and probably will mill you out while drawing half of his deck so its like "target opponent wins the game, you loose the game" which could be toxic
PS: oh misread that part, thanks for clarification
DasTarnschnitzel trade secrets says that you may draw up to four cards for each time the opponent draws 2
It was reprinted in the Precons.
@@ghostofkrows but still in makes it the only card contained in a precon that is banned if im not mistaken
Given this list, I am surprised cyclonic rift is still unbanned, considering it is basically upheaval without the lands, but has no downside.
My deck got nerfed big time when prophet went on the banned list. I would love to see a deck built with Damia, Sage of Stone and Villianous Wealth though lol