Let’s remember that the 2012 study highlighted two things that needed to be fixed before the Rowville Rail could be considered. 1. The removal of the remaining level crossings between Huntingdale and the City - this is now complete. 2. The removal of the Dandenong line from the city loop as the city loop is already beyond capacity - This is vey close to being completed. So the building of the Rowville rail will no longer feed into either of these problems. Therefore - it could be built according to that plan
It goes back to before 1969. Monash University chose the site in 1958 because it was promised a railway within 5 years of opening. A railway to Rowville was promised by both sides at the 1982 state election.
Should have been built in those 1980's. Would have serviced the Uni goers well and football traffic to Waverley Park in 1990's and would have saved an outer suburb football ground that could hold over 70,000 people and also service footy fans in those outer southern and outer eastern so much better than bloody Docklands that is all the way in the inner city where we already had football grounds.
The need for it becomes more obvious as the university grows. I took that shuttle bus for years and it seemed so ridiculous an arrangement for such a nice university
The Rowville line in my opinion, should be built. Most of Wellington rd has a space wide enough for skyrail, and if not with the amount of cars the line would take away, you can loose 1-2 lanes.
Wellington road DOES not have a reservation wide enough. It never has. i work adjacent to it and it is a transit nerds fantasy it ever did. And it wouldn't take one car off that road - what you think every one that works along the route all live in Rowville. Lose 2 lanes and its single line. See this is whythings never get built as those that propose them live in some alternate reality.
wellington road is a crucial road and losing lanes would be detrimental. even imagine theres a fire in the dande ranges/cockatoo/gembrook.. ppl need to get to safety, would create more of a problem
As someone who has been driving from Rowville into the city every day for 20 years, I would love to see the rail line be built, but doubt it will be in my lifetime.
All of us living in the area would very much happily use heavy rail if such infrastructure existed, but unfortunately must either make do with poor bus services funnelling to surrounding train stations or rely on our cars
I know I'm biased (being a local to the area) but I feel as though the 2012 study alignment (if done with bus reform to properly serve the new stations) would have very strong patronage, despite the SRL's construction. A variation I am a very strong supporter of is building the 2012 plan, but running rowville trains from Huntingdale to East Malvern along a new alignment through Chadstone, where then it runs into the city on the quieter Glen Waverley Line. It could be supported by an Alamein extension to East Malvern to provide an efficient middle between using the SRL and changing at Richmond (and would give the Alamein line more purpose.) Also side note - every time I see that 2012 Waverley Park concept art I think that's a gorgeous design!
Unfortunately a Rowville line on Wellington Road wouldn't provide a good interchange with the SRL because the SRL station is being built north of the university. To me this is the dumbest decision about the SRL design. The SRL station should be in the south side of the university, next to the bus interchange on Wellington Road, where there's loads of space being taken up by car parking.
I absolutely agree!! I was shocked to discover they were building the SRL station on the north side, how will passengers be able to connect to exisiting bus routes at the interchange on the south side of campus? Absolutely ridiculous decision
I still think that Rowville line should've been built but under a much different design. Infact, it should've been considered as part of a potential line that connects Ringwood to Dandenong via Wantrina, Knox City, Scoresby and Rowville. And as well Glen Waverley being finally given a extension to Knox City and Mountain Gate, before connecting up to Upper Ferntree Gully, given that there's enough space on Burwood Highway to allow for a dual track viaduct above the roads. The outer east has always been known as Melbourne's biggest blackhole of public transit and sees fairly high car usage. I think it's definitely a good time to begin petitioning the councils and government to construct a extension and a new line to serve Outer East.
As a Rowville resident, I would say YES, because there is no near connection with a heavy rail but bus. it needs a line to rowville and extend to knox aswell hopefully it can let a express trains. because it definitely will help the dangenong corridor 😊
why not extend the Glen Waverley line? no need to worry about placing extra stress on Dandenong line also there can be interchange at Glen Waverley to new under ground system can be underground seeing that the infrastructure is already in place with tunnelling equipment
There's a fairly steep hill down the same direction as the Glen Waverley line, if it were to be extended. I don't know if the trains would be able to make it up the incline. But I'm an idiot, and it might be completely within the realms of possibility, depending on what rail engineers have to say.
Only 50 years too late …. apart from extensions like to Merida, the last new line was Glen Waverley which was before WW2. No footy at Waverley when more people live near it than the population of Perth and Adelaide combined.
I live in Mulgrave and it would 2000 percent take a lot out of the morning rush cause we have so many schools and a shopping centre is smack bang in the middle it would be very crucial to have our own station
The SRL may never get going at all if the State votes for Liberal next State Election. Terrible. I hate Labor but I hate Liberal just as much for different reasons.
@@eddielong8663 the liberals are there to save money where labor spends but makes the wrong decision doin it. I see it all the tim3, why put traffic lights every where where they are not needed, and why is the metro tunnel missing Richmond a major station for everyone.
You mention (on screen at 1:04) that land was never reserved for any of these routes. The video also doesn't mention that the Cain Labor government formally scrapped the proposed Huntingdale to Fern Tree Gully line, saying that they would build it as light rail instead. And, from my memory, sold off the land reserved for it (as they did with the Doncaster line, with the same excuse), as they wanted the money for other projects.
5:55 I am a bit worried about that worker walking down the middle of an active train line... did not know working for the railways was that challenging! PS: regarding this transport corridor, I would believe that it would be far more beneficial to establish at Clayton a light rail hub, matt would link with the suburban rail loop, and radially spread out to the suburbs beyond, and therefore could include a line out to Rowville and beyond....
Interesting idea and I think it would be great for people moving within the catchment. But three changes to get to the city is a bit extreme. Probably better to do one of: 1, heavy rail extension with trains direct to CBD plus a decently granular feeder bus network, or 2, you're local transport network plan but centered on an existing train station, or even two stations that are on different nearby lines.
@@alexmccutcheon7381Sir... I am not sure where one got the idea... .."But three changes to get to the city is a bit extreme...".. I am proposing a hub and spoke model, where the transport hub is centered on key SRL stations such as cheltenham, Clayton, mount Waverley, box Hill... And the spokes from the hub would be the very tram lines reaching out to the suburbs and so providing a service that is better than a bus but not as expensive as a train line...
This rowville line can be an extension and upgraded version of the Alamein line and a revived inner loop line now you can separate it from the rest of the network and run it as a driverless service
Yeah it needs to be built, however, I can't see how the fly over Eastlink can be done without disrupting traffic along Wellington Road and Eastlink, both roadways may have to be closed. I have noticed that there's space over the Monash Freeway.
At the least we should see the tram network run down Burwood Hwy to Stud Road built. I lived in the region way back when it was orchards and paddocks and for almost fifties years the tram was coming to Stud Road. Now I live in Darwin now but up until recently my mother lived in Scoresby and public transport there was woeful. Five kilometres is all that is needed
the increased traffic to the city loop is important to consider. either more trains have to run through an already cramped section, or frequency on another line has to decrease. this isn't the case with SRL, which is why it should be prioritised. to increase service, no extra trains have to run through the CBD, no shuttles are needed, no strange express patterns.
The City Loop, and particularly the Caulfield group, is about to get a massive capacity boost when the Cranbourne and Pakenham move out. You could have the Rowville providing a (fairly infrequent) service along the now disused tracks between South Yarra and Flinders Street.
@@tspoon772 Rowville would still share a section of the very busy Caufield lines, even if the section past South Yarra is relatively unloaded, unless dedicated track is built along that corridor, but yes, Rowville could easily share the Caufield tunnel with Frankston like Upfield and Craigieburn will share the Northern.
@@xymaryai8283 yeah, as implied in this video, they would need to at least triplicate or more reasonably quadruplicate from huntingdale to Caulfield. That would necessitate tearing down the new sky rail stations at Hughesdale, Beena and Carnegie. Which is why I think they’re not planning on ever making this a reality, the tearing down of the third platform at oakleigh a couple of years back was a real statement of intent on the part of the government. Now the SRL is planned to stop at Monash Uni, this is their way of shelving the rowville line forever. It’s a shame that the people in power would rather build some 200 billion boondoggle rather than a relatively simple 5km quadruplication and a stock standard small branch line.
The Monash University MRX Station should be built underground, then onwards to the Mulgrave town centre before terminating at an Underground MRX Station built underneath Stud Park shopping centre, providing an efficient Rail Link.
The original 1969 proposed rail extension from the Dandenong Line was designed to pass through then VFL stadium, the onto Rowville, and then continue on through (then vacant paddocks passing close by to Greenacres Tea House) and terminate in Knox-field adjacent to the Knox-field Shopping Centre just south of Ferntree Gully. Extending the line to Rowville is just a cheap ploy to quell the masses of sheeple.
I think the money would be better spent on getting the Suburban Rail Loop opened ASAP. The earlier we open the new lines the sooner people will switch from driving.
I hope it’s not built. We needed it 20 years ago but now there are areas that need it much more. But like all things Melbourne we will get it 50 years after it is needed.
Doubt it, it would need a huge amount of land to be purchased, and given land values today would make an over land line far too costly. A tunnel would also be difficult as it would limit future development above it. And Waverley Park is now gone, which would no longer be a focal point for such a line. I think governments will dither on it and do nothing - forever, like the extension to the Cranbourne Line.
I'm not sure I agree with your flippant comment that residents of Rowville wouldn't use public transport. "Car dependant suburbia?" There are no trains so of course that's the case mate! There isn't an option. I have a friend who drives to FTG station, sometimes Glen Waverley (although parking there sucks).. She works near Melbourne Central station. Rowville needs a line for sure. Logistics I understand, but as you said, this line has been on the cards for generations. No more excuses - build the God Damn thing!
I don’t think I said Rowville residents won’t use public transport - just that the built urban landscape is not very friendly to it, meaning it might attract less usage than other extensions.
@@mjcats2011 yeah it's very Big bus with its own dedicated track.... Unlike tiny Melbourne trams that need to share track with cars. Which just like a tiny bus with steel wheels that cost alot of money to construct. Sydney trams cost 210+ million AUD / km vs trackless 5mil/km (jesus even Indonesia high speed rain only cost 52 mil/km) .. Not to mention it takes 5 years to construct this 12 km.. And this build on already made road. I didn't say trackless tram perfect.. Far from it, but saying it's waste of money.....
Because of SRL this Rowville line wont be built at least for next 50 years. Monash Uni will have a train station due to SRL. SRL will cost at least 100 billion to build (when it connects to Bundoora and airport) so no funding for Rowville line
Except that the SRL will serve a north-south market, whereas a Rowville line would serve a market to/from the CBD. Sure, there would be some overlap for Monash Uni itself, but that's about it.
5:30 that station graph is so wrong. Murrumbeena is not twice as busy as Carnegie. Although I don't think capacity would need to be built. You could just run 3 services, Rowville, Pakenham and Cranbourne. As most people get on huntingdale to caufield, only ones to miss out are Dandenong and Springvale. Or basically what a Westall service is today can be rerouted to Rowville
Unfortunately the Labor party (at both state and federal levels) have zero interest in linking Rowville. State installed bus lanes, thinning the reservation, around 15 years ago. Federal Labor withdrew funding for the project in its budget in October 2022.
To be fair, it's cheaper to perform a feasibility study for a millon or so dollars than it is to drop a few billion on a poorly thought out piece of infrastructure. It sucks* (EDIT: not socks), but that's just the price we have to pay.
@Bobman84 Yeah you can say all you like about the ALP. I have criticised the ALP for pursuing a really infrastructure driven Transport policy, but if you think those Coalition dopes are the answer, you ain't got a clue either. Who syphoned off $360 Million from the RRL to fund a rural bypass? That's why the Coalition are totally useless when it comes to PT.
Rail in Melbourne will never “significantly reduce car use”, it will only reduce the growth in demand for car use. You should start by quoting the modal share. AFAIK the Monash Freeway is at capacity again in the peak. The primary question for planners is how to alleviate that. Trying to relocate jobs away from the CBD should be the key strategy.
It’s too late . I drove Wellington Road yesterday, there is huge infrastructure to get past now . Like the Airport Rail line they waited 30 years at least too long .
Yes, that's why we have so many problems today in terms of the condition of existing infrastructure, inadequate expansion of the network, and the financial struggle to build what's necessary.
This is an obsolete concept, a lot has changed since then, Monash university's public transport interchange will move to the North Eastern part of the campus where there will be a Suburban Rail Loop station, also the City to Dandenong corridor where Huntingdale Station is located had exceeded full capacity and cannot cope with anymore services.
They should have built it when Waverley Park was still around. Sad to say, but with SRL connecting Monash, Waverley Park now long gone, this line may just be too little too late, though it would have been needed 40 or even 30 years ago.
Waverley Park would have benefited greatly from a Rowville line, but the Rowville line would not have benefited greatly from Waverley Park, given that the latter would have provided extra traffic for a few hours on perhaps two days a week, whereas the normal, everyday, traffic for all lines comes from travel between residential centres and places of work or shopping. And there's plenty of that along the route.
MRX, also known as the Mass Rapid Xpress in full, will be the alternative to the Big Build, providing an efficient, faster way between the Suburbs, the CBD and the Airport, which will be privately owned and operated.
This service has been mooted for many years, but successive liberal governments ( Bolte / Hamer ) spent sweet FA on infrastructure as far as rail was concerned, now a few Labor governments have failed in this matter. The area has had huge growth over the years but nothing has happened
Trackless trams are just sensationalised BRT. BRT is fine mind you, but if someone is proposing Trackless Trams, you can just translate that straight to a BRT proposal.
Dude government budgets aren't the same as your household one. Government can leverage the future potential growth of the economy to effectively borrow an infinite amount of money as long as Australia exists tomorrow, the government can borrow. This idea you are regurgitating is a lie propagandist that do not want rich folk fairly taxed to fund projects that grow and stimulate the economy in more ways then the rich hoarding it in overseas bank accounts paying no tax.
Having previously lived in Rowville, and taken public transport from there every day for near a decade... I don't really see the point of a Rowville station, let alone a Rowville, Monash Uni, & Mulgrave station. Honestly, one of the biggest problems I have with our rail loop is it tries to be a bus network. It connects a lot of short-distance stops, and our trains spend more time stopped than they do travelling at speed. This means long distance journeys don't really benefit a ton from going by train - and can actually be longer on train than by driving - while short distance trips aren't worth taking the train for a lot of the time, as existing transport options handle them without too much difficulty. Travelling Rowville to the CBD daily, it took about 5-10 minutes to walk from my house to either the 901 or 900 bus route. 900 was usually preferable, though a longer walk, as it connected Stud Park through to Huntingdale station via Monash university. 901 was a shorter walk, but backtracked to Dandenong station, which added another 15-20 minutes to the train journey. Either bus route took around 30 minutes to get to a train station. From huntingdale, the city was usually around 30-40 minutes away. Building the Rowville line with a proposed 4 extra stops would be similar to the trip from Dandenong to Huntingdale, and would take 15-20 minutes. You'd get an approximate saving of 10 minutes travel vs bussing the journey. That's... not hugely worthwhile to me. Especially when you then consider making it to Stud Park (Or a later station) to catch the Rowville line train. Its not walking distance for most of Rowville, and most would have to catch a bus from near their house to the nearest rail station - a bus that is likely the 900 or 901 they would have been catching to Huntingdale anyway, taking another 5 minutes off the estimated time savings. For the short distance journeys offered... The rail doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If there were fewer stations, and similar to the 1969 proposal it connected through to other lines like to Ferntree Gulley station, or more directly north to the likes of Ringwood station, it'd make more sense. Take a 5-10 minute bus to the train station, and rather than spending 8 minutes doing what a bus does in 10, spend 11 minutes doing what a bus does in 20. Reduce the stopped time, and spend more time covering distance - and less spent on building expensive stations in the process too. Overall though, Rowville is surprisingly well connected public transport wise. Growing up there I put off getting my license for almost a decade because it just wasn't needed. There are definitely many other projects that should be taking higher priority for public transport than a Rowville line; many of which you touched on in the video, but also with growing urban sprawl I'd like to see fewer, further apart stations added onto existing lines, or new branch lines, to connect all the new housing estates that are going up, and will continue going up for the foreseeable future. Connecting a train line to Pakenham as it developed helped immensely with offering transport options out of what used to be an outer suburb to the rest of the city. With development now moving more South to Clyde area, transport will be needed in that direction. With development continuing out to Koo Wee Rup, Drouin, and other far outer suburbs, the train lines will also just keep getting longer and longer, and a lot of the middle area hasn't been densly filled yet. Expanding out that way with more sparse stations would be game changing for the ability to get workers pushed further out of the city by the housing crisis, and bring them to the jobs that are more clustered in the inner to mid ring suburbs. It would hopefully also clean up the absolute nightmare that is Cranbourne/Dandenong roads currently, with the extra demand from all the new housing estates just killing traffic. The South Gippsland Highway is getting upgrades to help with this, but considering the rate of wear and tear on the roads already, and existing bottlenecks that aren't being addressed by this set of upgrades, I don't think it will make enough difference, and will be obsolete before too long thanks to even more estates and suburbs being developed along the highway that are all going to funnel their people through Cranbourne/Dandenong. Probably not a high priority now because we have so much of the rest of the line to upgrade, but I wish we would be more proactive in preparing our infrastructure for upcoming demand, rather than waiting until it has long been failing to meet demand before addressing anything.
last time i cycled down to rowville with my friends then forgot busses dont pick up cyclists so we had to cycle all the way up that steep ass hill on wellington road. if only a train line was built would have saved all of us half a hour of pure pain and suffering
PERTH is building a TRACKLESS TRAM route that has the same capacity as Ligh Rail at 1/3 of the cost of Light Rail. I have no doubt that cities including Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane will follow Perth in building a number of Trackless Tram lines.
Trackless teams are just a gadgetBahn bus, use real trams, they’re genuinely much more energy and cost efficient, and create tons less environmental waste without batteries or rubber tyres
A bus, perth has built a bus. We have hard-built in tram lines, why would we want to rip them out so we can put more busses around? Sydney did that and clearly regrets it.
Sorry, but a trackless tram is just the new white elephant. It'll be novel for a bit, and then cities will realize that it's cheaper to just make trams, trains, and regular bus lines.
@@CommissionerManu yeah like, not to be rude at all to John (original comment) but it's just not a good idea when we have time-tested and more suitable suggestions that will reduce congestion. I don't know why people latch onto road-based ideas so much, it was the same with the hyperloop and all that hype back in the day which again turned out to just be 50x worse than a train or a tram or even a bus.
Rowville rail along wellington rd has always seemed like a prudent idea and would be a good connection for the two train lines. throw in the tram line being extended along burwood highway to wantirna and it's a winner. SRL is absolute nonsense and will never happen so projects to expand the existing network is the way to go.
@@AnonTriple yeah nah mate sorry SRL not happening.. if they make it that far towards clayton the cost blow out because of toxic asbestos soil is going to be astronomical. anyone who has ever looked at a map would know that. it's simply not happening. let it go
10 year from now Melbourne planning nerd will face two realities: 1) The under investment in expansion of the Dandenong line during the Skyrail project was a waste of time and money, and will necessitate huge expense top bring it up to a 3/4 track Standard and 2) the white elephant of the SRL which has to take the most expensive path available will drain resources from actually viable and useful projects.
sounds like procrastination was the main cause of the line not to be built, thanks to politics. I don't wanna have a go at other parts of Melbourne, but it always seems Rowville is left behind:P
You lost me at "Trackless Trams are an unproven technology gadgetbahn". Lmao dude you have been spending too much time listening to Reece. Trackless Trams are proven: It's called a bus. Buses are a proven technology. We even have electric buses already all over Melbourne. Adding a bit of grade separation, BRT style stops, and optical guidance really isn't that big of a leap above buses. Also the vehicle cost is worlds less than a real Tram. Trackless Tram is fine as a technology which sits in between a plain old regular bus and a Tram, it is just the name which everyone hates.
i am pro rail and this line amongst many others would be already operational making rail no i in this state buses are third world transport and there use should be to feed railway lines two thirds of victorias railway lines have been legally destroyed leaving theses towns that once had rail "uncivilized" dont expect any government no matter what persasion to build this they are basically anti rail despite there publicity
I had to go out to Rowville for work this week, the busses were all very busy, and Monash was a hive of activity. The demand is definitely there!
Let’s remember that the 2012 study highlighted two things that needed to be fixed before the Rowville Rail could be considered.
1. The removal of the remaining level crossings between Huntingdale and the City - this is now complete.
2. The removal of the Dandenong line from the city loop as the city loop is already beyond capacity - This is vey close to being completed.
So the building of the Rowville rail will no longer feed into either of these problems.
Therefore - it could be built according to that plan
It goes back to before 1969. Monash University chose the site in 1958 because it was promised a railway within 5 years of opening. A railway to Rowville was promised by both sides at the 1982 state election.
interesting
Should have been built in those 1980's. Would have serviced the Uni goers well and football traffic to Waverley Park in 1990's and would have saved an outer suburb football ground that could hold over 70,000 people and also service footy fans in those outer southern and outer eastern so much better than bloody Docklands that is all the way in the inner city where we already had football grounds.
The need for it becomes more obvious as the university grows. I took that shuttle bus for years and it seemed so ridiculous an arrangement for such a nice university
Considering the road construction happening on the eastern freeway right now these lines will happen never
@shaundgb7367 & with saying that Waverley Park VFL Oval would still be operation in today's AFL.
What a Butterfly effect!
The Rowville line in my opinion, should be built. Most of Wellington rd has a space wide enough for skyrail, and if not with the amount of cars the line would take away, you can loose 1-2 lanes.
Wellington road DOES not have a reservation wide enough. It never has. i work adjacent to it and it is a transit nerds fantasy it ever did. And it wouldn't take one car off that road - what you think every one that works along the route all live in Rowville. Lose 2 lanes and its single line. See this is whythings never get built as those that propose them live in some alternate reality.
@@xr6ladit would take my car off the road most days.
@@xr6ladhalf of the 60s proposed freeway network was never built as it was obviously a planners fantasy living in an alternate reality!
wellington road is a crucial road and losing lanes would be detrimental. even imagine theres a fire in the dande ranges/cockatoo/gembrook.. ppl need to get to safety, would create more of a problem
@@jacktomis1743 I would like to point you to Ferntree Gully Rd about 2 km away, and the Burwood Hwy (That ones a little further out)
As someone who has been driving from Rowville into the city every day for 20 years, I would love to see the rail line be built, but doubt it will be in my lifetime.
All of us living in the area would very much happily use heavy rail if such infrastructure existed, but unfortunately must either make do with poor bus services funnelling to surrounding train stations or rely on our cars
I know I'm biased (being a local to the area) but I feel as though the 2012 study alignment (if done with bus reform to properly serve the new stations) would have very strong patronage, despite the SRL's construction.
A variation I am a very strong supporter of is building the 2012 plan, but running rowville trains from Huntingdale to East Malvern along a new alignment through Chadstone, where then it runs into the city on the quieter Glen Waverley Line. It could be supported by an Alamein extension to East Malvern to provide an efficient middle between using the SRL and changing at Richmond (and would give the Alamein line more purpose.)
Also side note - every time I see that 2012 Waverley Park concept art I think that's a gorgeous design!
Unfortunately a Rowville line on Wellington Road wouldn't provide a good interchange with the SRL because the SRL station is being built north of the university. To me this is the dumbest decision about the SRL design. The SRL station should be in the south side of the university, next to the bus interchange on Wellington Road, where there's loads of space being taken up by car parking.
Excellent point
I absolutely agree!! I was shocked to discover they were building the SRL station on the north side, how will passengers be able to connect to exisiting bus routes at the interchange on the south side of campus? Absolutely ridiculous decision
I still think that Rowville line should've been built but under a much different design.
Infact, it should've been considered as part of a potential line that connects Ringwood to Dandenong via Wantrina, Knox City, Scoresby and Rowville. And as well Glen Waverley being finally given a extension to Knox City and Mountain Gate, before connecting up to Upper Ferntree Gully, given that there's enough space on Burwood Highway to allow for a dual track viaduct above the roads.
The outer east has always been known as Melbourne's biggest blackhole of public transit and sees fairly high car usage. I think it's definitely a good time to begin petitioning the councils and government to construct a extension and a new line to serve Outer East.
As a Rowville resident, I would say YES, because there is no near connection with a heavy rail but bus. it needs a line to rowville and extend to knox aswell hopefully it can let a express trains. because it definitely will help the dangenong corridor 😊
why not extend the Glen Waverley line?
no need to worry about placing extra stress on Dandenong line
also there can be interchange at Glen Waverley to new under ground system
can be underground seeing that the infrastructure is already in place with tunnelling equipment
Absolutely
Slower, less direct, misses Monash uni which even with SRL would still provide most of the Rowville lines ridership
There's a fairly steep hill down the same direction as the Glen Waverley line, if it were to be extended. I don't know if the trains would be able to make it up the incline. But I'm an idiot, and it might be completely within the realms of possibility, depending on what rail engineers have to say.
Only 50 years too late …. apart from extensions like to Merida, the last new line was Glen Waverley which was before WW2. No footy at Waverley when more people live near it than the population of Perth and Adelaide combined.
But Mirvac built expensive housing.
What the heck is Merida
Merida is a city in spain lol @simont6337 but he meant Mernda
there was a line to Mernda in the fifties.
@@Low760 Mirvac build junk housing
You can see proposed freeways and rail lines on old Melways. I did find studies for the City Loop in the 1950s Sun newspaper.
I live in Mulgrave and it would 2000 percent take a lot out of the morning rush cause we have so many schools and a shopping centre is smack bang in the middle it would be very crucial to have our own station
I wondered when a vid of this would come out, good content 👍
This line makes no sense as the rail loop would cover Monash university, I think the glen Waverley line should be extended to Rowville.
foreshadowing the video...
The SRL may never get going at all if the State votes for Liberal next State Election. Terrible. I hate Labor but I hate Liberal just as much for different reasons.
@@eddielong8663 the liberals are there to save money where labor spends but makes the wrong decision doin it. I see it all the tim3, why put traffic lights every where where they are not needed, and why is the metro tunnel missing Richmond a major station for everyone.
@@MetroManMelbourneYou should of explored this plan as well
@@eddielong8663interesting you hate both despite them being opposites in lots of important ways.
You mention (on screen at 1:04) that land was never reserved for any of these routes. The video also doesn't mention that the Cain Labor government formally scrapped the proposed Huntingdale to Fern Tree Gully line, saying that they would build it as light rail instead. And, from my memory, sold off the land reserved for it (as they did with the Doncaster line, with the same excuse), as they wanted the money for other projects.
5:55 I am a bit worried about that worker walking down the middle of an active train line... did not know working for the railways was that challenging!
PS: regarding this transport corridor, I would believe that it would be far more beneficial to establish at Clayton a light rail hub, matt would link with the suburban rail loop, and radially spread out to the suburbs beyond, and therefore could include a line out to Rowville and beyond....
Interesting idea and I think it would be great for people moving within the catchment. But three changes to get to the city is a bit extreme. Probably better to do one of: 1, heavy rail extension with trains direct to CBD plus a decently granular feeder bus network, or 2, you're local transport network plan but centered on an existing train station, or even two stations that are on different nearby lines.
@@alexmccutcheon7381Sir... I am not sure where one got the idea... .."But three changes to get to the city is a bit extreme...".. I am proposing a hub and spoke model, where the transport hub is centered on key SRL stations such as cheltenham, Clayton, mount Waverley, box Hill... And the spokes from the hub would be the very tram lines reaching out to the suburbs and so providing a service that is better than a bus but not as expensive as a train line...
This rowville line can be an extension and upgraded version of the Alamein line and a revived inner loop line now you can separate it from the rest of the network and run it as a driverless service
@MetroManMelbourne - do you know anything about the cranbourne extension to clyde? online reports seem to be mixed.
Excellent video, keep it up with videos like this 👍👏
Yeah it needs to be built, however, I can't see how the fly over Eastlink can be done without disrupting traffic along Wellington Road and Eastlink, both roadways may have to be closed. I have noticed that there's space over the Monash Freeway.
metromanmelbourne returns!
this should still be built, it will link more people to the network, and also the upcoming SRL
Rowville top ten places
Interesting video
At the least we should see the tram network run down Burwood Hwy to Stud Road built. I lived in the region way back when it was orchards and paddocks and for almost fifties years the tram was coming to Stud Road. Now I live in Darwin now but up until recently my mother lived in Scoresby and public transport there was woeful. Five kilometres is all that is needed
Tram.should definitely go all the way to up to Ferntree Gully not just Stud Road
the increased traffic to the city loop is important to consider. either more trains have to run through an already cramped section, or frequency on another line has to decrease. this isn't the case with SRL, which is why it should be prioritised. to increase service, no extra trains have to run through the CBD, no shuttles are needed, no strange express patterns.
The City Loop, and particularly the Caulfield group, is about to get a massive capacity boost when the Cranbourne and Pakenham move out. You could have the Rowville providing a (fairly infrequent) service along the now disused tracks between South Yarra and Flinders Street.
@@tspoon772 Rowville would still share a section of the very busy Caufield lines, even if the section past South Yarra is relatively unloaded, unless dedicated track is built along that corridor, but yes, Rowville could easily share the Caufield tunnel with Frankston like Upfield and Craigieburn will share the Northern.
@@xymaryai8283 yeah, as implied in this video, they would need to at least triplicate or more reasonably quadruplicate from huntingdale to Caulfield. That would necessitate tearing down the new sky rail stations at Hughesdale, Beena and Carnegie. Which is why I think they’re not planning on ever making this a reality, the tearing down of the third platform at oakleigh a couple of years back was a real statement of intent on the part of the government. Now the SRL is planned to stop at Monash Uni, this is their way of shelving the rowville line forever. It’s a shame that the people in power would rather build some 200 billion boondoggle rather than a relatively simple 5km quadruplication and a stock standard small branch line.
To a fair extent, the SRL and a Rowville line would serve different markets.
The Monash University MRX Station should be built underground, then onwards to the Mulgrave town centre before terminating at an Underground MRX Station built underneath Stud Park shopping centre, providing an efficient Rail Link.
The original 1969 proposed rail extension from the Dandenong Line was designed to pass through then VFL stadium, the onto Rowville, and then continue on through (then vacant paddocks passing close by to Greenacres Tea House) and terminate in Knox-field adjacent to the Knox-field Shopping Centre just south of Ferntree Gully.
Extending the line to Rowville is just a cheap ploy to quell the masses of sheeple.
Imagine how cheap it would have been to build that line decades ago. Could have potentially eliminated the need for the SRL.
I think the money would be better spent on getting the Suburban Rail Loop opened ASAP. The earlier we open the new lines the sooner people will switch from driving.
I hope it’s not built. We needed it 20 years ago but now there are areas that need it much more.
But like all things Melbourne we will get it 50 years after it is needed.
Doubt it, it would need a huge amount of land to be purchased, and given land values today would make an over land line far too costly. A tunnel would also be difficult as it would limit future development above it. And Waverley Park is now gone, which would no longer be a focal point for such a line. I think governments will dither on it and do nothing - forever, like the extension to the Cranbourne Line.
Minimal land purchase needed, it would run largely elevated over or tunnelled below north/Wellington road. Nevertheless, it’s unlikely to be built
Mate you know how to make anticipation
So you telling me trackless tram gonna cost $3 billion AUD for 12 KM like in Sydney?
I'm not sure I agree with your flippant comment that residents of Rowville wouldn't use public transport. "Car dependant suburbia?" There are no trains so of course that's the case mate! There isn't an option. I have a friend who drives to FTG station, sometimes Glen Waverley (although parking there sucks).. She works near Melbourne Central station. Rowville needs a line for sure. Logistics I understand, but as you said, this line has been on the cards for generations. No more excuses - build the God Damn thing!
I don’t think I said Rowville residents won’t use public transport - just that the built urban landscape is not very friendly to it, meaning it might attract less usage than other extensions.
Agree with you about 'trackless tram'
IT'S A BUS!!
Total waste of money
You considered Sydney tram that cost $ 3 billion for 12 km is a bargain?
@@anubizz3for a brand new network, it's fairly reasonable. All extensions from there will have a much lower cost per km
@@anubizz3 Trackless tram is just a BUS. Might as well improve the 900.
@@mjcats2011 yeah it's very Big bus with its own dedicated track.... Unlike tiny Melbourne trams that need to share track with cars. Which just like a tiny bus with steel wheels that cost alot of money to construct.
Sydney trams cost 210+ million AUD / km vs trackless 5mil/km (jesus even Indonesia high speed rain only cost 52 mil/km) .. Not to mention it takes 5 years to construct this 12 km.. And this build on already made road.
I didn't say trackless tram perfect.. Far from it, but saying it's waste of money.....
@@anubizz3 Yeah its a BUS. Trackless Trams are for the Birds.
Because of SRL this Rowville line wont be built at least for next 50 years.
Monash Uni will have a train station due to SRL.
SRL will cost at least 100 billion to build (when it connects to Bundoora and airport) so no funding for Rowville line
Sounds like the SRL will take over most of the reasoning behind the line
Yep
Except that the SRL will serve a north-south market, whereas a Rowville line would serve a market to/from the CBD. Sure, there would be some overlap for Monash Uni itself, but that's about it.
5:30 that station graph is so wrong. Murrumbeena is not twice as busy as Carnegie. Although I don't think capacity would need to be built. You could just run 3 services, Rowville, Pakenham and Cranbourne. As most people get on huntingdale to caufield, only ones to miss out are Dandenong and Springvale. Or basically what a Westall service is today can be rerouted to Rowville
That graph is 10 years old so there’s a fair chance it’s wrong
I would consider it part of a newly planned MRT system
Unfortunately the Labor party (at both state and federal levels) have zero interest in linking Rowville. State installed bus lanes, thinning the reservation, around 15 years ago. Federal Labor withdrew funding for the project in its budget in October 2022.
Rowvillians and such are liberal voting small business tradies. So yeah. Of course they won't.
As if the liberals have any interest in it either. Nobody does right now.
To be fair, it's cheaper to perform a feasibility study for a millon or so dollars than it is to drop a few billion on a poorly thought out piece of infrastructure. It sucks* (EDIT: not socks), but that's just the price we have to pay.
@@Bobman84 Yeah they say they would then can it and build a freeway instead. The Coalition are without a clue.
@Bobman84 Yeah you can say all you like about the ALP. I have criticised the ALP for pursuing a really infrastructure driven Transport policy, but if you think those Coalition dopes are the answer, you ain't got a clue either.
Who syphoned off $360 Million from the RRL to fund a rural bypass?
That's why the Coalition are totally useless when it comes to PT.
Jeff sold off the route . There are rumours of an unfinished station under what is now the Glen Shopping Centre ( before it was rebuilt
it doesnt exist but there is construction happening beside glen waverley station either upgrading the road or planning for srl east
No, it was Labor that sold off the route, saying that they would build it as light rail instead. Which was a sill idea, and they never did, of course.
Rowville -> MOnash Uni -> Huntingdale -> Oakley -> Chadstone -> Alamain - > Kew East -> Abbotsford -> Melbourne Uni -> (Royal Park /Parkville ) -> Flemmington -> Maribyrnong (Highpoint) -> St Bernards -> Airport West -> Airport.
The MRX would also minimize everyday traffic congestions on major freeways and roads,and will be cheaper to build.
Rail in Melbourne will never “significantly reduce car use”, it will only reduce the growth in demand for car use.
You should start by quoting the modal share.
AFAIK the Monash Freeway is at capacity again in the peak. The primary question for planners is how to alleviate that. Trying to relocate jobs away from the CBD should be the key strategy.
decentralisation would not fix traffic; it will make it worse.
Further increasing sprawl does not work
It’s too late . I drove Wellington Road yesterday, there is huge infrastructure to get past now . Like the Airport Rail line they waited 30 years at least too long .
They promised everything during the 20th Century but did not build any new rail lines until the 21st
Yes, that's why we have so many problems today in terms of the condition of existing infrastructure, inadequate expansion of the network, and the financial struggle to build what's necessary.
VFL PARK MENTIONED MON THE HAWKS
This is an obsolete concept, a lot has changed since then, Monash university's public transport interchange will move to the North Eastern part of the campus where there will be a Suburban Rail Loop station, also the City to Dandenong corridor where Huntingdale Station is located had exceeded full capacity and cannot cope with anymore services.
The video was 9:11 💀💀💀
3:04 💀
This should be built now...
I'd much rather see a skyrail/monorail between Dandenong and Ringwood, perhaps Bayswater would be easier.. along stud road,past Knox City Wantirna..
We cannot get our act together and build an airport rail link… Rowville has zero chance in my lifetime.
They should have built it when Waverley Park was still around.
Sad to say, but with SRL connecting Monash, Waverley Park now long gone, this line may just be too little too late, though it would have been needed 40 or even 30 years ago.
Waverley Park would have benefited greatly from a Rowville line, but the Rowville line would not have benefited greatly from Waverley Park, given that the latter would have provided extra traffic for a few hours on perhaps two days a week, whereas the normal, everyday, traffic for all lines comes from travel between residential centres and places of work or shopping. And there's plenty of that along the route.
MRX, also known as the Mass Rapid Xpress in full, will be the alternative to the Big Build, providing an efficient, faster way between the Suburbs, the CBD and the Airport, which will be privately owned and operated.
What?
None of that will happen
Didnt you make a video about this in 2021?
Yep, I’m remaking a few older videos at higher standards
@@MetroManMelbourne perhaps you should remake the Robinvale line upgrade next 😂
This was announced by the Ballieu Government in 2011
Like most of their 'announcements' nothing became of it.
@@handyandyausat least they didnt single a major trunk line duri g a population boom.
Meanwhile we still don't have an Airport train yet
This service has been mooted for many years, but successive liberal governments ( Bolte / Hamer ) spent sweet FA on infrastructure as far as rail was concerned, now a few Labor governments have failed in this matter. The area has had huge growth over the years but nothing has happened
Trackless trams are just sensationalised BRT. BRT is fine mind you, but if someone is proposing Trackless Trams, you can just translate that straight to a BRT proposal.
With what money ?
Dude government budgets aren't the same as your household one. Government can leverage the future potential growth of the economy to effectively borrow an infinite amount of money as long as Australia exists tomorrow, the government can borrow. This idea you are regurgitating is a lie propagandist that do not want rich folk fairly taxed to fund projects that grow and stimulate the economy in more ways then the rich hoarding it in overseas bank accounts paying no tax.
The only thing to do in Rowville is leave.
And Lysterfield
At least Lysterfield Lake is quite nice.
Having previously lived in Rowville, and taken public transport from there every day for near a decade...
I don't really see the point of a Rowville station, let alone a Rowville, Monash Uni, & Mulgrave station.
Honestly, one of the biggest problems I have with our rail loop is it tries to be a bus network. It connects a lot of short-distance stops, and our trains spend more time stopped than they do travelling at speed. This means long distance journeys don't really benefit a ton from going by train - and can actually be longer on train than by driving - while short distance trips aren't worth taking the train for a lot of the time, as existing transport options handle them without too much difficulty.
Travelling Rowville to the CBD daily, it took about 5-10 minutes to walk from my house to either the 901 or 900 bus route. 900 was usually preferable, though a longer walk, as it connected Stud Park through to Huntingdale station via Monash university. 901 was a shorter walk, but backtracked to Dandenong station, which added another 15-20 minutes to the train journey.
Either bus route took around 30 minutes to get to a train station. From huntingdale, the city was usually around 30-40 minutes away.
Building the Rowville line with a proposed 4 extra stops would be similar to the trip from Dandenong to Huntingdale, and would take 15-20 minutes. You'd get an approximate saving of 10 minutes travel vs bussing the journey. That's... not hugely worthwhile to me. Especially when you then consider making it to Stud Park (Or a later station) to catch the Rowville line train. Its not walking distance for most of Rowville, and most would have to catch a bus from near their house to the nearest rail station - a bus that is likely the 900 or 901 they would have been catching to Huntingdale anyway, taking another 5 minutes off the estimated time savings. For the short distance journeys offered... The rail doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
If there were fewer stations, and similar to the 1969 proposal it connected through to other lines like to Ferntree Gulley station, or more directly north to the likes of Ringwood station, it'd make more sense. Take a 5-10 minute bus to the train station, and rather than spending 8 minutes doing what a bus does in 10, spend 11 minutes doing what a bus does in 20. Reduce the stopped time, and spend more time covering distance - and less spent on building expensive stations in the process too.
Overall though, Rowville is surprisingly well connected public transport wise. Growing up there I put off getting my license for almost a decade because it just wasn't needed. There are definitely many other projects that should be taking higher priority for public transport than a Rowville line; many of which you touched on in the video, but also with growing urban sprawl I'd like to see fewer, further apart stations added onto existing lines, or new branch lines, to connect all the new housing estates that are going up, and will continue going up for the foreseeable future. Connecting a train line to Pakenham as it developed helped immensely with offering transport options out of what used to be an outer suburb to the rest of the city. With development now moving more South to Clyde area, transport will be needed in that direction. With development continuing out to Koo Wee Rup, Drouin, and other far outer suburbs, the train lines will also just keep getting longer and longer, and a lot of the middle area hasn't been densly filled yet. Expanding out that way with more sparse stations would be game changing for the ability to get workers pushed further out of the city by the housing crisis, and bring them to the jobs that are more clustered in the inner to mid ring suburbs. It would hopefully also clean up the absolute nightmare that is Cranbourne/Dandenong roads currently, with the extra demand from all the new housing estates just killing traffic. The South Gippsland Highway is getting upgrades to help with this, but considering the rate of wear and tear on the roads already, and existing bottlenecks that aren't being addressed by this set of upgrades, I don't think it will make enough difference, and will be obsolete before too long thanks to even more estates and suburbs being developed along the highway that are all going to funnel their people through Cranbourne/Dandenong.
Probably not a high priority now because we have so much of the rest of the line to upgrade, but I wish we would be more proactive in preparing our infrastructure for upcoming demand, rather than waiting until it has long been failing to meet demand before addressing anything.
The Suburban Rail Loop will ensure this line is never built.
last time i cycled down to rowville with my friends then forgot busses dont pick up cyclists so we had to cycle all the way up that steep ass hill on wellington road. if only a train line was built would have saved all of us half a hour of pure pain and suffering
Jesus Christ! Please please please put Chadstone Shopping Centre in the Rowville Rail link!!!!!!!
PERTH is building a TRACKLESS TRAM route that has the same capacity as Ligh Rail at 1/3 of the cost of Light Rail. I have no doubt that cities including Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane will follow Perth in building a number of Trackless Tram lines.
Trackless teams are just a gadgetBahn bus, use real trams, they’re genuinely much more energy and cost efficient, and create tons less environmental waste without batteries or rubber tyres
A bus, perth has built a bus. We have hard-built in tram lines, why would we want to rip them out so we can put more busses around? Sydney did that and clearly regrets it.
Sorry, but a trackless tram is just the new white elephant. It'll be novel for a bit, and then cities will realize that it's cheaper to just make trams, trains, and regular bus lines.
@@basspuppy133 absolutely mate, glad others in Aus are saying it
@@CommissionerManu yeah like, not to be rude at all to John (original comment) but it's just not a good idea when we have time-tested and more suitable suggestions that will reduce congestion. I don't know why people latch onto road-based ideas so much, it was the same with the hyperloop and all that hype back in the day which again turned out to just be 50x worse than a train or a tram or even a bus.
I used to live in rowvile. Yeah it should be built.
Rowville rail along wellington rd has always seemed like a prudent idea and would be a good connection for the two train lines. throw in the tram line being extended along burwood highway to wantirna and it's a winner. SRL is absolute nonsense and will never happen so projects to expand the existing network is the way to go.
It's happening
SRL is already being built
@@AnonTriple yeah nah mate sorry SRL not happening.. if they make it that far towards clayton the cost blow out because of toxic asbestos soil is going to be astronomical. anyone who has ever looked at a map would know that. it's simply not happening. let it go
10 year from now Melbourne planning nerd will face two realities: 1) The under investment in expansion of the Dandenong line during the Skyrail project was a waste of time and money, and will necessitate huge expense top bring it up to a 3/4 track Standard and 2) the white elephant of the SRL which has to take the most expensive path available will drain resources from actually viable and useful projects.
I think they will face two very different realities to what you are suggesting
That's alot of homes that need to bought. no way this will happen.
Hit the greens with this and mention 0 emissions
sounds like procrastination was the main cause of the line not to be built, thanks to politics. I don't wanna have a go at other parts of Melbourne, but it always seems Rowville is left behind:P
I LITTERALY WENT ON THAT TRAIN ROUTE LIKE A FEW MINUTES AGO!
No, you didn’t
You lost me at "Trackless Trams are an unproven technology gadgetbahn". Lmao dude you have been spending too much time listening to Reece. Trackless Trams are proven: It's called a bus. Buses are a proven technology. We even have electric buses already all over Melbourne. Adding a bit of grade separation, BRT style stops, and optical guidance really isn't that big of a leap above buses. Also the vehicle cost is worlds less than a real Tram. Trackless Tram is fine as a technology which sits in between a plain old regular bus and a Tram, it is just the name which everyone hates.
I think you sound like you agree with me...
Tram style cars, which dedicated lanes and corridors... just lay the track
i am pro rail and this line amongst many others would be already operational making rail no i in this state buses are third world transport and there use should be to feed railway lines two thirds of victorias railway lines have been legally destroyed leaving theses towns that once had rail "uncivilized" dont expect any government no matter what persasion to build this they are basically anti rail despite there publicity
gang shit
Yet another lost opportunity because of weak politicians!
The suburban rail link won’t happen. Victoria broke!
It's happening.
@@user-wy4ci7yj6b the section they are building now will be the only section that get finished.
@@user-wy4ci7yj6b It shouldn't
@@user-wy4ci7yj6b
"It's happening."
That doesn't mean that it will be finished.