Car Design in the 21st Century: From Clay Milling to Digital Development - Autoline After Hours 605
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Autoline provides daily global automotive news. Top auto executive interviews. Automotive insight & analysis. EV, AV & ICE technology, car sales & financial earnings, new car reviews.
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GUEST:
Doug Greig, TARUS
claymill.com/
TOPICS:
- Clay Milling
- Why do EVs look like non-EVs?
- Could design have made minivans more desirable? Will autonomy turn minivans into the next Checker cab?
- To what extent does the industrial design ethos of off-road vehicles make them as popular as they are?
PANEL:
John Manoogian II, Forza Blitz
Gary Vasilash, on Automotive
John McElroy, Autoline.tv
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We thank Autoline for having us on! It was a lot of fun and we hope people found it informative. Thank you!
the picture you show of the your machines in the design center, is that a rendering of GM's new design center that is under construction?
@@dmitchellhomes Yes it is. Photo courtesy of GM.
Boy was John's comment on runaway complexity spot on. It's like a whole generation of designers has Attention Deficit Disorder.
I love this group to follow up on the industry. All we had before was Motor Trend, Car & Driver, etc.
Very interesting show.
In the mid '80s, GM 1000 Oaks studio and Warren studio had Intergraph I/Design CAID systems, for which I provided direction. What I pushed in the conception as the foundation kernel of I/Design was a 3D NURBS surface/solids, raster/vector, full color/animation rendering system with a common object oriented database for design, engineering & manufacturing. I called it the MasterModel approach, whereby the intelligence of the design was in the CAID/CAD/CAE/CAM system.
This provided a system to design a car, mill it in Styrofoam or clay, then revise and scan the physical model, feeding the scan data back into the 3D CAID model and revising it with Boolean math. I worked with Eric Norton in the GM Warren studio. That became the foundation for the Design Studio of Tomorrow. Ask John Manoogian, II about Eric.
Another interesting point about 3D CAID and Eric Norton. One day Eric called me to go to the Warren studio to sit in on a presentation by this guy who said he could PRINT a 3D physical model directly from the 3D computer model. The guy showed a video of an old galvanized wash tub, full of liquid plastic with a modified HP pen plotter gantry with a laser head on the tub, with also a milling machine platten inside the tub. That guy was Chuck Hull of 3D Systems. The rest is history. Of course, Eric and I were amazed. I told Eric that I wished I had thought of that. GM then supported Chuck. Intergraph was the first computer graphics company to add the .stl file format to our export format.
We at Intergraph were one of the first to incorporate VR into our UI, used extensively by Boeing in the design and engineering of the NASA ISS, International Space Station. AR/VR will be integral to automotive design and engineering in the future.
Go out and hand wash your car and you will see a whole new shape
fascinating discussion
Ignore if already asked… how about additive manufacturing (3 D printing ). Fast, cheap and easy to go from virtual to real life, real size.
3d printing can't do mass production on a high level yet.. You can use for prototyping but not to produce millions of products.
@@robertnicholls9917 I believe David's question was in regards to using 3D printing in the iterative process for full scale models instead of clay models.
@@robertnicholls9917 You might want to check in on Smile Direct and HP about manufacturing. They are doing it in Tennessee.
I agree with John and John regarding the Lucid Air design. It is so well thought-out and will prove to be timeless with uncomplicated details that add visual length and width. They cleverly emphasize it’s stance, exaggerate it’s dash-to-axle, and convey strength/solidity expected from top-tier luxury sedans. It manages to remain aerodynamically efficient by using some clever tricks that do not compromise the form and proportions like the EQS which needs to use graphic elements to hide the odd shape of the vehicle necessary in achieving it's CD. They have the right blend of touch and tactile controls and still remain future-forward in aesthetics without looking gimmicky.
I think it looks great, except for the rear 3/4 area where the C pillar terminates abruptly and doesn't seem to have any connection to the rear quarter, and the trunk cut line creates dissonance.
38:55 John M's "science project" comment: ☺️
As a contrarian, I applaud the i3 design team for a completely rational, clean sheet execution.
- No "elegant" design tropes like dash-to-axle, or tumblehome, or a traditional trunk.
- Complete rethink of materials and powertrain, like carbon fibre usage and a 2 cylinder range extender.
- Function over Form in the best Germanic tradition.
The Scion xB and the VW Van (& upcoming ID Buzz) are other examples that will be future icons for their rational designs.
Of course you are absolutely correct, the Design Team should get kudos for their bravery. Unfortunately, the buying public didn't seem to agree.
Another GREAT show guys!!
"Changes on the fly" major advantage.To me, I'm just amazed on how they programme the milling machine to shape the car, especially details like the honeycomb grill.
It used to take 15 hours of processing time for a single lightguide calculation (no surround headlamp/taillamp gemetry). I now get annoyed when it take 3 minutes, and often it takes about 45 seconds.
Great discussion, bruhs.
1.7 births per woman in US. Minivans are used for some jobs and a tiny percentage of families. The reason SUVs took over sedans is comfort. I got 2 young teen who are over 6 feet tall. How could they possibly be comfortable in the back of a sedan?
John was great………..
RIDE HEIGHT. Older folks don't want to crouch down to get in a car. Also safety is higher with size. All adds up to SUV.
Nuclear batteries for ultimate freedom in design. Shoot for THAT goal. There, I just told you the future...lol.
Custom wheels & wrapping.
Kind of obvious why people don't buy sedans to me. Fewer regulations on SUVs lead to better value for SUVs than Sedan.
I got John's reason on why clay is still needed today for designers. However, when a whole skyscraper is built from its footing to its roof on software and drawings completely in and out, why are cars still built with clay?. Its such an expensive process. No wonder OEMs have such low margins.
SUV's are athletic looking and therefore sexy. Minivans are not. I really think it's that simple...the exception being if a minivan finds a different way to stand out in an aesthetically pleasing manner.
... which is funny, because if you go to a triathlon, there will be more Pacificas parked at the finish than Grand Cherokees.
I'm expecting ID Buzz to create a sea change in the Ute/SUV segment.
Maybe will become "cool" to not look like you're pretending to tackle the Rubicon Trail or lap the Nurburgring on your way to the WaWa.
@@donswier Lol. I'm actually not much of an SUV guy myself, but I think it's important to understand the psychology behind their success (athletic / tough). And they're still fairly practical. It will be interesting to see how the ID Buzz performs in the market, but the high price will likely be an inhibitor.
@@v.p.b.2807 Psychology is a definitely huge factor.
...Maybe even more so with the general public than with enthusiasts.
I have a couple friends who don't care a rip about cars, but both bought new $$ FJ Cruisers 15 years ago because they were popular (lucky for them they held value like crazy).
Btw, isn’t companies like GM and EV startups which show us beautiful moving images of their new cars and they’re all CGI!
In fact the first time we saw new EVs from GM, they were just CGI…. Whereas the first time we saw Model 3’s they were functioning vehicles… the world is backward.
All vehicles are created on computers, down to the tiniest individual components. That's why CGI becomes available long before the physical parts. You often don't even see prototypes of anything untill year(s) into development on computer. For every physical sample component that is manufactured, there may be a dozen virtual versions that got rejected.
Ya, but GM went from CGI to on the market and selling to customers in 1 year with HummerEV, and BrightDrop vans. GM is in a different position than Tesla, When GM gives a date and picture, you can write the date in pen... Tesla with Semi, Cybertruck, Roadster, not so much... GM does not have to waste time and money with working show cars, they go straight to pre production test cars.
Old men often will not change or imagine another future.
Despite the Crypto Crash, Bitcoin is still seen as a good investment by many people.
@Sofia Johnson Never trust one. It puts them in a difficult moral position of serving VS self. Always compensate with incentives based on your own profits, not trades.