Treble Bleed and Greasebucket | Two tone mods for your guitar | DIY Guitars
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- This week's video looks at the effects of the treble bleed and greasebucket tone mods for your guitar wiring. I step through simulations using the standard wiring, and the two mod circuits. Models are based on a vintage tele pickup (think Fender NoCasters). Simulations are completed in CircuitLab, with some plots also shown in Excel.
**Note** In the simulations I incorrectly labeled the Vin (IN) on the wrong side of the inductor. Essentially, I moved the inductor around in the circuit and forgot to reset the IN placement. In any case, this does not effect the plots shown in the video. In all cases, the plots were of the magnitude of the output voltage in DB. This would be the same as the gain, as the input magnitude was 1V.
#pougnetpedals #diyguitars - Hudba
![How Does Guitar Wiring Affect TONE? [Comparison]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b6_82BxcZRE/mqdefault.jpg)
wow,
to totally get this gonna have to watch, study, watch.
very comprehensive, excellent work.
amazing
Dude you are amazing and I learned so much from your video! I was always confused about grease bucket circuits and trouble bleeds, but now I’m completely straight, so thank you👍🏼🙏
Great video, proving that most Internet "experts" have things either totally wrong, or backwards. Maybe you have done this already, but I would love to see these charts/graphs with different value capacitors on the tone controls.
Similarly, I'd love to see charts that graphically illustrate the frequency spectrum & power output of single coil pickups & humbuckers as the number of "turns" of coil wire increases...and as multiple coils are connected in a series vs parallel, or in phase vs out of phase! I would think this is possible, since we can measure the resistance and inductance (&, effectively, amperage, voltage "wattage" output)of different pickups
Very informative and interesting video. Thanks for sharing. 🙌🏼🎸
Just got a Tele with rhe GB circuit and it didn't understand it. Thank you for the very clear way of putting it into easily understandable images that a novice could understand.
Nice explanation and examples! Thanks!
Definitely enjoyed the video! 😊
I’ve changed a few guitars over to the greasebucket tone and really like it. It’s much more usable than a standard tone that turns to mud past a certain point. Awful name but great circuit 😆
I feel like if you just used a weaker cap (like going from .022 to .0047) that barely hits the treble, you'd actually appreciate the mid/bass boost of a standard tone circuit. It would feel more balanced as you'd be able to bias/blend your tone from bright and chimey to thick and powerful, rather than just reducing treble until your pickups sound muted/muffled.
Thanks for great video.
That was thorough.
thanks!
Great content! Never heard about the grease bucket circuit. Since I plan on building a guitar I would like to do my own simulations in analogy to yours. How can I find data for simulation of particular pickups (p90, Filtertrons, humbuckers, etc.)? Thank you
hi , i do not have any pots wired up, just an on /off switch only. And in 1 guitar the single bridge humbucker is wired directly to the output jack. What are the values for this setup? i was also going to wire in a huge cap with a bunch of resistors will this get me gain?
Hey there, really great vid enjoed it much
Could you explain how different values of the caps and resistors would effect the sound?
higher resistor value = brighter
higher capacitor value = darker
learn about engineering notation and the suffixes pico/nano/micro to not get lost looking at the different units of "farad"
0.022 microfarad(uf) = 22 nanofarad(nf) = 22000 picofarad(pf)
I took the tone pot out of my Tele and replaced it with a four position switch - the first position is no treble bleed, the second is standard Tele treble bleed, the third is a larger value capacitor that lets through a lot of middle (I can get a spot-on Down By The Jetty/Malpractice'/Stupidity era Wilko Johnson tone with that), and the fourth is an even larger value cap which takes top end away as you turn the volume down. That one's great for power chords if you've got a lot of drive on the sound.
With the volume up full, of course, there's no difference - they only come into play as you turn the volume on the guitar down.
great video, I wonder what would happen if you try both mods at once
A whole lot of treble. It kinda boils down to if you play around more with your volume, use the tb. If you play around more with your tone, use the gb. You can definitely put both in. One won't have a huge effect on the other.
Really great explanation! I have a Fender Johnny Marr signature Jaguar, and while the wiring is highly modified and well thought-out, the volume pot is practically useless. It cuts the highs so much if turned down at all and it doesn’t really even cut the volume much until you get down to like 30%. I think I may need to install a treble bleed circuit and/or change the pot value...
Do you have any experience with no-load tone pots, btw?
No experience with no load pots, but they are supposed to make it brighter. I would try the treble bleed first. 2 components and an easy mod. Could also look at your pots, maybe the value is too low?
@@pougnetpedals I think this particular Jaguar has 1 Meg pots actually. I’m a little worried that a treble bleed circuit would mess with the “bright” switches (instead of rhythm circuit on typical Jag).
He’s the manual for the guitar with the wiring diagram if you feel like taking a look. www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10002/011-6400B_SISD.pdf
i would give the treble bleed a shot. it looks like the bright switches just put caps in between the pickups. Also, the treble bleed is only going to effect you at lower volume. so if the volume pot is almost useless to you now, you really don't have anything to lose. Although stewmac overcharges by 1000% for their treble bleed circuit, they do provide a neat idea on their page (www.stewmac.com/electronics/components-and-parts/capacitors-and-resistors/golden-age-treble-bleed-circuit.html). That is, if you want to try the treble bleed before soldering it, just put it on some alligator clips. Check out the third image in the link
@@pougnetpedals oh that’s awesome! Thanks for the tip! I’m definitely going to try it then. Cheap, low-risk and non-invasive.
+nick16754
When you know how to really work a tone pot - you’ll realize that no-load tone pots is useless.
Regular tone circut is just fine.
So, I like the treble bleed, I think it's important the volume is linear and affects tone as absolutely LITTLE as possible, but I think I'd actually want the opposite of a grease bucket on my tone knob. Any idea on how to construct a bass boost circuit on the tone pot that minimally affects how it attenuates treble?
I think for this you would actually need an active boost. It's kinda the deal with passive filtering that if you boost one band, another has to come down. Maybe you can steal the values from the Bass pot of the classic Baxandall amp tonestack and interpolate that to a guitar tone knob, use a breadboard hooked up to the pot lugs, drop capacitor/resistor values and see what sticks.
@@TinkerToneworks Not looking to go active. I'll just EQ it at the pedals/amp then, lol. Thanks for the idea, though.
Make a video like this on the Telecaster LA Cabronita Especial has Two 0.0033uf in parallel. The graphs/plots will tell what the Dual 0.0033uf in parallel are doing to the telecaster pickup.
Will have to check that out!
@@pougnetpedals yes check out the LA Cabronita Especial wiring because it gets very twangy tones from the S1 switch
And the winner is ............. Gibson vintage (alias 50's) wiring ;-)
I'm curious why you went to 11kHz. The 24th fret on the high E string is only going to hit around 2.6kHz. Even with harmonics you aren't getting any sound at 11kHz.
It is the magnitude portion of a bode plot. That is, it has a logarithmic x-axis. Plotted by decade, my option was either to go to 1khz or 10khz. 10khz covers the full audible range of a guitar and also shows more of the frequency response. The way the program lays out is plot points required me to add the extra point to 11khz. Showing to 10khz was the goal
@@pougnetpedals seems like it would be basically useless for trying to plan a circuit for a bass then. Thanks for clearing that up.
grease bucket cheese cluck-it....who turns their tone knob down that far anyway?...i don't.
so why not just put a 100K resistor on the signal side of the tone pot, to just stop it from going that far?
then it's just one resistor, instead of a resistor AND a 0.1uF ....that would be a monster if you wanted an orange drop.....and the tone knob would be less touchy.
Simulation is not quite correct.
I am open ears. Let me know where you think I went wrong
+@@pougnetpedals
The represented Tele-schema is a passive schema. All output came from pickup. No scheme changes can boost the signal, In particular -- treble bleed is designed to reduce loss treble in volume control.
I think you are getting bogged down with my use of the word boost. I agree that there are no active boosts; however we are changing the RC filtering from the standard tone circuit. The result of that is to reduce the amount of signal being filtered out, essentially providing a boost at those frequencies over the standard circuit. I understand your comment but I think it is more about my wording than actually what is going on.
@@pougnetpedals
The drawing of signal doesn’t look right either.
How so? If there is a mistake I'm glad to correct it, but I'm not sure what you are referring to. I simulated this in circuit lab and with the guitar freak tool and got the same results.
1st things 1st: ''remember to like & subscribe''... not a very nice first impression. I've never considered it, did never forget it, you didn't ask so i will not.
Wow so no demo of the actual difference?
Just talk and math.
Blah blah...talking and theory. No example. B.S....
Haha. Theory (Math) debunks perception.