I Flew in a National Park (And This Happened!)
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- I flew in a national park with my drone and I got fined! Watch as I call the park ranger that issued the fine and I try to get answers.
DON'T OPERATE YOUR DRONE IN NATIONAL PARKS/PRESERVES.
Here is the video: • Zzyzx Road California ...
A couple years ago I flew my phantom standard 3 in the Mojave National Preserve in California at Zzyzx Road. After editing and sharing the video, a year later I got an envelope with a fine in it sent to me in the mail from that national preserve. I mistakenly didn't check to see if I was flying my drone in a national park when I made that video and I had to pay the consequences.
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Have you ever experienced something like this before? OR what're your thoughts on this?
How much was the ticket?
@@meyowind5743 1:11
No...But you bug pilots have dragged fixed wing and heli pilots into your Fu*(*(&*^^ g mess.
My guess? Someone YOU know ratted you out. That's how they got your info. As for the fine and such from MNP.. I'm not surprised here. That park is highly watched online and they do all kind of karen reporting of anything they see.... She knew all the answers to your questions.. but just played dumb as she was taught to do. Earned a Sub from me. I have the Mavic 2 Air and I plan on flying in a bunch of parks but taking off from outside the park of course
While I understand the need for the NPS to protect certain specific areas, I think their approach to regulating this is completely unacceptable. It's as though they couldn't be bothered to designate which areas are appropriate to fly and which aren't, so they just threw their hands up and said "we don't want to deal with you lot." The NPS administers huge swathes of land, especially in the western US, in much of which there is no compelling reason as to why sUAS operations are any more of a disturbance to the environment or other park visitors than many permitted activities. How about offering a permit for appropriate portions of the less ecologically sensitive areas of the parks for a small fee? It would allow the NPS to track who is operating and where, and ensure that they have at the very least agreed to abide by a set of rules - e.g. to stay within defined boundaries, to operate per FAA regulations, to avoid disturbing wildlife, and to respect other visitors to the park. This is how to responsibly regulate, rather than being lazy and completely dismissing responsible operators who would like the opportunity to enjoy the national parks from the unique perspective offered by flying a sUAS. #NPS #nationalparks #drones
The land itself does not have to have a "fence" around it or be marked. There are apps and websites that show where these restricted or No Fly areas are. That is primarily how you know. It doesn't matter what we think of the laws, they are still the laws.
@@buddyadkins2432 I think you’ve completely missed the point, sadly, but go off I guess. Not sure where I said anything about fences. And yes, I can read a sectional and have access to the sUAS facilities maps through several providers. Look at them yourself sometime, especially in the southwest, and you’ll get an idea of just how much land is under the purview of the NPS, and how insane it is to think that 100% of that area has a good justification for not allowing any sUAS operations. And not to be excessively pedantic, but to say “it’s law” isn’t strictly accurate either, as that implies a legislative process. The rules as they exist are unilateral policies set by the the federal administrators (NPS and FAA). I’m not implying that they don’t have the same force and effect, but it’s worth noting that they were put in place by appointed, and not elected, officials, and with little to no input from outside voices. Anyway, if you you don’t want to confront the question of whether rules/laws that are enacted are actually sensible and just, I wonder how you’ll feel when the entire NAS is closed to all hobbyists, and the only entities allowed to operate commercially are the likes of Amazon and Google, since they’ll be the only ones that can afford to comply with every piece of overburdensome regulation placed upon them.
@@Nick-gp8fw In the bus situation that you cited, was it really a law for the woman to sit at the back or just a social bias. Still, it seems like a quite different situation. If you want to break the law go ahead. What I find interesting is that often new pilots don't read the regulations and most existing pilots don't even suggest that they read them and be aware of them. Go ahead, break the law if you must, just don't say that it is OK. It might be for you, but not for others.
The Parks ARE the certain area they are protecting. Congress set these areas aside to preserve and protect them as much as possible in their natural state. When people are visiting during what may be a once in a lifetime trip, they came to see Yosemite Falls, or Old Faithful, or deer or moose in their natural habitat....not to see a bunch of drones flying around in their once in a lifetime photograph!! Also, drones disturb and can spook wildlife or crash into lakes, rivers, geysers etc., and can be difficult or impossible to retrieve. Drones are simply inappropriate. There are plenty of places to fly drones outside of these unique and magical places.
I would go back there and fly again, this time just outside the boundary. 😁
Yeah for real, and I've since upgraded my drone to a Mavic 2 Pro from my P3S so I definitely want to try getting some more footage! I got those shots during the summer and it was 114℉ so my drone really only lasted about 14 mins on a full battery, and my iphone even less time lol.
@@KRUSER I had a P3S. No range at all. I have a M2P and an Evo II Pro now and they will both get waaay out there! I have flown around the Gateway Arch a couple of times (a National Park) by not launching in the park boundaries. czcams.com/video/RGTQ4HEw7-Q/video.html
What app do we use to see the places we can fly?
I love hiking/nature. I used to support the park service but I don't anymore because they make it too hard to access the park, we don't seem to be getting anything for recent big fee increases and some of the parks rules are absurd. The park is the perfect place to fly drones. I can see if there were alot of drones in one area then maybe you'd need some rules for that specific area but the park is pretty big and there are alot of places you could fly a drone without disturbing anything. I was just watching another area where this guy was climbing a peak in the Yukon and there might not have been another person for 50 miles but he still wasn't allowed to fly his drone. I've noticed the park service is too lazy/cheap to hire enough rangers to enforce their own rules and if something becomes an issue they don't even try to enforce the rules they just ban it.
I tried to backpack the Wonderland trail around Mt Rainier last year and they only allowed like 50 people on a 90 mile trail. Excuse me its a really big park I think you can have alittle more than 1 person every 2 miles. They also forced you to camp in designated areas which is crazy there are lots of spots in the forest where you could pitch a tent without doing any damage and a big part of the fun of a backpacking trip is camping where you feel like. They questioned my bear canister that I've used for 20 years without incident and wanted me to buy a heavier more expensive bear canister and I laughed at them. They also wanted me to pack out all my shit which makes sense in high alpine area where nothing biodegrades but not in a forest. I know how to dig a deep enough hole, I'm not putting bags of shit in my backpack and risking really bad contamination. There recently was a vote to expand the National Park and I voted against it because I'd rather the area remain National Forest with easy access and less red tape, I didn't believe the Park Service would come up with reasonable rules or enforce them properly.
What app did you use to check the fly and no-fly boundaries?
Every park ranger that I know or have talked to is has been instructed that National Parks and Preserves are NO FLY zones. Now, I don't know about the distinction between operating and flying, but I do know that if a Park Ranger sees a drone in the area over the Park, they will call the authorities to check it out. As for how they located you. THEY are the federal government and have resources that most people don't realize. If they want to find you, they will. Also, did you know that most cases that are investigated are submitted by Part 107 pilots trolling for videos where it appears that the pilot did something wrong. Then they send an anonymous "tip" to the authorities to investigate.
There are ways of breaking the connections between the person filming an the person posting: before showing the footage, just say something like "I just received an e-mail with a link to a video stored on some sharing/cloud service, and here it is what it contained".
That should cover it.
Good thoughts but somebody sent him a video of himself flying the Drone specially 10 ft away.. that might work for other videos but when your self is in it it's pretty tough to convince someone lol
I love all these laws to let you know you are a slave and you are not free. They can tell you where you can take a picture and where you can’t it’s a federal park but the people that are supposed to be the federal citizens are not even allowed to use it the way they would want to use it. It’s bizarre and annoying.
Imagine now you hike in the woods without a permit and land in jail for 12 months with 200 hours of community service when you get out along with a $7500 fine and a permanent ban to the area along with a permanent felony record banning you from all sorts of other unrelated things. All for walking in the woods. This is the max punishment for a lot of places now implementing permit systems in western states. Now imagine you did it while operating a drone. You might as well have killed someone in second degree murder, it's the same punishment.
Maybe the shadow environmentalists control the govt?
She knows exactly how they got your address. Qualified immunity. She is allowed to lie. Everything goes to the fusion center.
Good info, am going to the Grand Canyon. Will definitely be flying outside the park.
I am title 107 licensed and the rules just keep getting more and more strict. I want some shots as close as I can get to
Parks and plan on just using the app now. Thanks for info!
Thanks for sharing your experience, this is super helpful for new drone pilots! Crazy..I've driven past that road probably 50 times but never actually checked out whats down there. Good stuff 👍
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching Sean!
I'm sure they sent google a subpoena for your identification and contact info. Or they got it from your license plate if you had that visible. From the information I've been reading is that yes as long as you take off from outside the park and operate it there they can't site you, but will the firmware work on the drone? will it just return to home as soon as it enters the park boundaries? Also, in order to maintain line of sight could you have a spotter go in and keep line of sight?
literally the only reason I wanted to get a drone back in 2014 was to use in National Parks and then some idiot crashed one into a geyser and that was it, so I've never bought one until this past week. there's other places to fly but it's completely overkill with 100% restriction on drones in NP's.
@@n3d.studio .. with clowns in authority don't expect any changes soon. Just don't fly near stupid people and you don't have a problem.
I can tell you that I have turned in a few scofflaw drone fliers in parks. Others I know have as well. Tons of places to fly these things. I even have one myself! National Parks isn't, and shouldn't, be one of them!
helpful video bro thx but l have one question please can you tell me how can I make a nice video with the drone from National Park without getting a ticket?
does it go on your record like for background checks?
Basically I think they subpoena CZcams for criminal activity and at that point CZcams has to cooperate and so I think they got your address from CZcams.. they probably contacted local detectives probably have more power than subpoena companies
It’s interesting for me to hear some thing about Zzyzx after all these years. When I was a kid, late 1950 or early 1960s, my grandparents took my family out to Zzyzx and all I remember is learning it was a health spa or something like that I think my grandmother bought some of their vitamins or supplements. I don’t remember going into any Hot Springs but I’m thinking it was known for that.
Thanks for sharing that! First person I've heard from that has had an experience down there when it was a mineral spring and was operational. That's pretty awesome!
Probably found you through your IP address associated with uploading the video. And from there went to the internet provider to get the customer information.
Good point with that. Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case!
Or they took a picture of his face, because they can do that with criminal records
Bad luck. A simple request for your ISP though YT got your details, but why would not taking it down get you another citation? They know you’ve been dealt with and have a record. That’s a little like saying you were filmed doing a robbery, went to prison for the crime, came out and the video was shown again on TV so they send you back to prison! Surely even in the USA you can’t be convicted of the same crime twice? Also, were you really cited for a misdemeanour 17 months after you committed it? Isn't there some sort of statute of limitations on misdemeanours? I hope you did not get caught by a speed camera back then or another tickets on its way!
That last point is good to bring up! I wonder about that if there is a statute of limitations there? Yes makes sense with the ISP through YT got my details. And it's also true, you can't be convicted of the same crime twice so this shouldn't matter
Criminals in authority will steal anyway they can.... Lying is always expected.
Great information. The self gloss got you busted. haha. Interesting information.
Hahah for real!!
How much was the ticket?
At least four people have asked "How much was the fine?", which suggests they didn't pay attention while watching the video. The amount of the fine was shown clearly. And far more than four people--none of them, apparently, with any legal training--have given their own (incorrect) interpretations as to what the regulations regarding drones mean. They are the sorts of people who will end up getting fines of their own. (I'm a retired lawyer.)
If you are driving over the speed limit and are filming with a GoPro and get pulled over and cited you can still post that video it’s legal. So you got cited and paid your fine to NSP I’m assuming your video is ok to post. There have been others that did the same and got fined and still have the video up.
Bottom line, don't have good clean fun here
Alot of these drone laws are crazy. National parks are OUR land. how on earth is a 250G drone hurting a park?
I don't understand how the sound of a drone affects, but if flying by helicopter is accepted for example there or in the big canyon, that makes much more noise than a drone, but of course helicopter operators pay more taxes than having paid the taxes of a new drone
License Plate on Truck you can see it
That is how they found you
pretty lucky with $180 fine the max fine is 5,000 in 3 years in prison..
You should start a petition to make it legal to fly over our national parks!
It is, just can't land or takeoff there
Interesting situation, thanks for sharing! I have one quick question pertaining to legally flying from outside a state or federal park into the park...I do know that your drone needs to be within the operators visual line of site, so how does that work? Thx!
Unless the pilot has Part 107 license and a specific waiver which is hard to get, flying beyond visual line of sight is a violation of the FAA regulations. Basically, long range flights violate the regulations. Even going behind a building breaks the visual line of sight and is a violation.
@@buddyadkins2432 -- They have to prove it....
Under the Fifth Amendment, an individual cannot be tried twice for the same crime. This means that if you went to trial and were acquitted, the prosecution can't try the same case against you again. It also means that you can't be punished twice for the same crime.
Very good point! Totally forgot about that amendment.
@@KRUSER there's a whole movie about this.. LOL... now i'm gunna go watch it..
not criminal because no one was hurt but it was illigal. and you broke a rule witch was punishable by a find. Dont use the word criminal until some one is being hurt.
Very good point with the criminal usage!
Thanks for sharing your story. Almost drove out there myself just to fly.
It's a sweet spot, even to check out! Tons of wildlife and it's open to the public to check out, just not for drones lol
you still can! just dont post a video!
I am sorry this has happened to you. This doesn't sound like a "criminal" violation, more like a "civil" one. You could verify (if you haven't already) by looking at the exact law that was reported that you violated and then look it up as to the classification of it, civil or criminal (misdemeanor or felony), etc. Also, like you eluded to, just don't post yourself or your vehicle in the footage next time. I also wouldn't worry about taking the original video down. I am sure you will not receive a 2nd violation since they will have your name in a database that will document the original citation. Lastly, however it was discovered, it would be a simple subpoena to CZcams (google) or whoever, to get your personal information. I do not know which drone you were using but with DJI products, they also document where you fly so they could get a subpoena as well to show the authorities where you fly. That is why I will never get rid of my Horizon Hobby Blade QX3. It does not require an app to fly to it will fly wherever I want it to. Sure, it has limits but I can still fly under the radar. :)
A year and a half later, that's interesting. I think that if there is a criminal investigation, any business can be compelled to give up your personal information and will likely do so without any hesitation. Lesson learned I guess, could have been a lot more expensive, though for that dust bowl of a national park they should have paid you a royalty for posting a video of it instead of a fine. Good Flying!
Haha 😂 I should've got a royalty for that, you're right! I was thinking about it more...I work on a marketing team and we use data enrichment tools where when we have just an email to work with, we can pull name, phone, adddress, company they work for, etc. which is all available through these different tools. So I imagine if we pay to use these tools, the government probably has a more robust one for their investigative use. Too bad the lady didn't provide much info in that. Good flying man! Looking forward to more of your videos!
how do they have your flighting photo?
How much was your fine?
Such stupid rules...Like what's the difference where you operate? Oh no, you're a criminal - you took off 30 centimetres inside the zone....
For real! Considering some of the crimes happening in the US right now in major cities.
KRUSER what is happening there right now is too much...I’m so sad about all this...And still yeah, they fine you for some stupid reason and give no explanation why it’s crime to operate there🤷🏼♂️ It’s almost like “You are allowed to kill a person with sniper rifle if you are not in the zone, but if you stab him in forbidden area then it’s a crime” 🤦🏼♂️😂
Oh, you should’ve told them you were protesting.
How much was the fine?
Is it still worth to buy a drone? I'm considering to buy a Mini 3 pro but all (national)parks are off the limits..
Plenty of places you can enjoy your drone. Enjoy nature, and the relative lack of technology in our Parks. That's what they are there for, to give us a rare taste of what America once was.
As an amature law student, I would advise you NOT to lie about where you took off, because that could be construed as obstruction. Rather, ask them if they have proof that you broke the law, because you are innocent until proven guilty. You do not have to prove your innocence.
Also, don't record your crimes. Haha
Good vid.
It's to keep bigfoot a secret lol
Interesting. Sorry you received a ticket as you are a responsible drone pilot.
Thanks for sharing very helpful!
Very insightful thanks for sharing this and helping us all avoid this mistake. What's the name of the app that helps you know where you can fly your drone?
You can't be charged twice for the same crime. It's against the law. It's called double jeopardy.
Super helpful thank you! 🎉
Bad advice about lying to the cops where you took off. Never lie to the cops, because that alone is a crime. You have the right to remain silence, but not the right to lie
Very well said! I was in a situation once where a highway patrolman pulled me over for going 93 in an 80. He asked how fast I was going and I told him 93, because I knew I was going that fast. He ended up letting me off the hook because I didn't try bull sh*tting him saying I thought "I was going 85" or something. He essentially said he never buys that people think their speedometer's are wrong when they're speeding, they just try acting dumb and lie to them. Probably won't risk that speed again lol.
only cops are legally allowed to lie all the time.
I wish you had shown a close-up of your citation (with sensitive information deleted, of course).
Could someone you know have reported you that knew your personal information? Like a fake friend that’s actually jealous of you or something? I know if they had the serial number of the drone it would be easy to find you. Did your car tag show anywhere in the video? I’m as curious about it as you are. They may have gotten your info from CZcams. Did you have to give it when you set the account up?
Good video! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
It shows up in your logs where you take off from….
you shoulda fought that shit..who has standing? nobody! A camera? and a crime..what a joke
huh I wonder about that "posting video of a criminal act" stuff. I would think that it's more of an issue of avoiding further hassle in the future.
I would agree with that!
I was in a park in june. I wont say which one but a guy was getting ready to fly one. I stopped and asked him if he knew the rules and he said it was ok. It was his land anyway. He was native American. I said you know what youre right. But its really everyones land. All these rules have gotten out of hand. Literally there's no difference between the mini and a bird. Do you tell a bird where it cant fly?
Does our first amendment end at the park entrance? I don’t understand.
Where does it say anything about flying drones in the First Amendment? Next someone will say, "Why can't I take my ATV out in meadows in National Parks? Or take my dirt bike across?" These rules are in place for a reason. It's not like you don't have 80% of the country where you can fly your drone. You don't need 100%. We don't need drone flyers buzzing wildlife or spying on folks taking a private skinny dip in the backcountry, and don't tell me it won't happen. We both know better. Parks are special places. Leave the technology at home and enjoy nature. That's what they are there for!
@@alansach8437your breath smells like granola
Its because they dont want you to discover big foot
To make a long story short, she has nil idea about your specific situation nor on the legal matter which pertains to such cases.
Once you add on the description, that you cannot operate inside the boundary of the preserve and you have been fined for doing so, nobody can tell you anything.
youtube is full of videos showing people breaking the law.
Makes me think of the current situation right now. There's looting and break ins happening all over right now in the US and there's tons of videos. It's funny to think that a video of a drone flying in a national preserve would be labeled harshly as "criminal activity" which I guess it is but compared to what else is on youtube, like you said, you'd think it'd be bottom priority. Interesting stuff. Thanks for the comment Ferdinando!
How do state parks work. Is that also illegal?
No. At least not here in MI
Bruh what happen if you post drone photos of national parks on Instagram? Not my photo
Renegade !! Hahaha nice footage
Ayeee my man
That's for sharing this. I'm new to this so my question is WHY do they make it illegal?
The big reason is there's an idea that drones are disturbing wildlife and the ecosystem in national parks and preserves. The wildlife there might be "fragile" or endangered and people in the past have abused the parks with their drones to the point where it was just made a national law. I think the biggest problems were happening in Yellowstone national park (ex. drones bothering buffalo/accidentally falling into geysers.) And rather make the law apply only to Yellowstone, it was just easier to have it apply to ALL national parks unfortunately!
Some ways I can think of how they found you are; a possible glimpse of your license plate in another one of your videos, an aerial shot of you taking off from your house (you may have mentioned your location) or facial recognition through the DMV database. I have not watched your videos so I'm just speculating here.
Great suggestions here. I was saying this somewhere in the comments as well, but I work in marketing and we use some data enrichment tools where we can figure out name, phone, address, etc. just from email addresses. I wouldn't be surprised if the government had something similar under their belt.
Keep in mind that you must maintain a minimum altitude of 2,000 feet above the surface of lands and waters of U.S. Forest Service Wilderness area per FAA rules.
Great suggestion! I didn't know that before. Do you have a link for that? I like to bookmark different drone laws as I find them
Recommended. Not required 🤙
Right, but that is really for manned aircraft. Drones are limited to 400' AGL. So, skimming about eh wilderness area at 2,000' can just get you busted for a different regulation.
Fly in NP and posted on YT?sound likes rob the bank and tell cops: I reside here😀😀😀😀
Why is it wrong to do? Privacy?
it's Zii /zex just like on the old time video . ..
How much is the fine?
Luckily $180. I know in Yellowstone from videos and what others have told me, those fines go around $1,000.
@@KRUSER I'd pay $1000 fee to fly in Yellowstone...just sayin'
@@KRUSER You were not charged with a misdemeanor, right? Just a fine?
you are taking a BIG LEAP telling folks to Fly into a national park area. Thats a HUGE risk. Even if you operate outside of the boundries you WILL NOT win an argument with law enforcement. This advice is poor and obviously you havent had enough experience doing so in different parks etc to make a broad scape vid.
They just want to make money as usual. Public safety…bullshit
Damn invasion of privacy is what it is.
You’ve already paid the ticket. They can’t give you another for the same incident.
This is BS . You did not get the citation. Show that properly.
What a waste of my time. I learned absolutely nothing. 11 minutes of my life wasted.
Then why bother commenting, ignorant prick.
Learning disabilities are sad. I hear they have a remedial class down at the senior center that would help.
This is fake video. He doesn’t have the citation
Sorry you're totally wrong you cannot take off with your drone from outside the park and fly into it I know someone personally who has gotten $1,000 fine for that
And that's why he said he was legal but he was not so you told the public the wrong information
Good to know! which park was he flying into? That’s a heavy fine.
@@KRUSER Yellowstone
Yeah every case I’ve heard out in Yellowstone, they drop the hammer HARD. So he’s in the process right now or has he been able to figure it out? That’s major rough.
Read the rules: www.nps.gov/articles/unmanned-aircraft-in-the-national-parks.htm
@@davidcash6809 Right, when reading it there's a section talking about what if you took off, landed, or operated your drone outside of the national park but you flew into the park, what would happen? It says that you must maintain a line of sight and you could be charged with breaking 36 CFR if you do any of these 3 things: 1. Your drone pursues or harasses wildlife or creates an intentional disturbance of wildlife nesting, breeding, or other activities. 2. The user of the unmanned aircraft knowingly or recklessly creates a risk of public alarm or nuisance by causing noise that was unreasonable under the circumstances or by creating a hazardous or physically offensive condition. Or 3. prohibits, in non-developed areas, operating (control the functioning of) a device powered by a portable motor or engine, except pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit. But if you were operating outside of the national park, jurisdiction ends at the end of the park. "This action applies to the launching, landing, and operation (to control the functioning of) of unmanned aircraft on lands and waters administered by the NPS. Jurisdiction by the NPS ends at the park boundary." and "The NPS has no authority outside park boundaries; the unmanned aircraft operator would have to get the permission of the landowner." But the exceptions to these are if a ranger deems your drone is harassing or pursuing wildlife, causes public alarm or loud noise/physical offense, or sees that you are operating (controlling) your drone within the park.
This is not wrong to do, drones are LOW impact, lower than any hiker biker atv or 4wd vehicle...
How much was the ticket?