You are the closest thing to the mad scientist from the cartoons I have always wanted to be when I was watching cartoons in my youth. LOL! You are definitely my hero, thank you for sharing and keep up the great content!
Einfach immer wieder super, dass man sieht, was man alles mit ein bisschen Erfindergeist machen kann und damit auch Geld sparen kann. Kaufen kann fast jeder. Immer wieder schön, deine Videos anzuschauen.
Yeah, i followed current for hot and neutral and thought: "How does the relay stay on?". Then i realized the spinning motor is inducing a current in the starter winding.
Keven, when we set up self latching relays back in my building automation days, we would use a double pole, double throw relay (like the one Methais has here, The relay has two poles meaning that it has two switches inside. It is double throw meaning that each switch inside is like a 3 way switch). In a latching relay you'd have some kind of device on one pole, on the normally open set of contacts, meaning that when the coil od the relay engaged, that device would run. Then you'd have a power supply rated for the coil on the other pole on the normal open contacts as well, which means that when the coil was engaged, that the relay would power itself! Hence the name self latching! The Only way to get the relay to disengage at this point would be to have some switch or button cutting the power to the relay. That's the first thing to understand. Second, (this may seem unrelated at first) when a iron core spins inside a coper coil, it induces a current inside that coper coil. This is how electric generators work. The inverse is also true. This is how electric motors work. Meaning that if you apply an electric current to the copper coil of an electric motor, that iron core inside starts to spin. (This is an overly simplifies explanation go how electric moters work but is good enough for now) BUT (and this is what I would have never realized if I were in Mathais's shoes) if you have a secondary coil arround the motor (in this case the starter windings) that coil has a current induced in it as long as the motor is running! And, again, in this case enough current to close the coil of the relay that Mathais happened to have on hand!!! This should be all the technical and specific information you'd need to under stand my comment. The info above is very basic and simplified to the point of being technecly wrong. Its very Mickey Mouse. But it may paint a clearer picture. The point is that Mathais is getting electricity back out of the moter while its running. If you want to understand the circut of any of these concepts better, just commenr me here and I'll be glad to explain more.
Hello, Matthias, I enjoy your videos and I appreciate you writing the subtitles/closed captioning for your videos. In the mean time, would it be possible for you to turn the Auto Captioning when you post a video, up tuntil you upload your own captions? That would allow us that have a hearing impairment to enjoy your videos when they come out. Cheers
Fascinating to watch you draw answers for just about anything from your wealth of knowledge. Hope you get through the next few months with your sanity intact.
I'm glad to hear your family is doing okay. ... I know almost nothing about how wiring works so I appreciate the effort that goes into making videos like these. All the drawings and explanations help me to understand it a little bit better.
Glad to hear you're all safe Matthias. The virus hasn't not hit our area very hard either, only a handful of cases in the three counties around me. I like your ingenious conversion of the switches to momentary contact along with a latching relay to start the sander motor.
I have used a couple motors like this - my preferred solution is to use a Functional Devices RIBU1C Enclosed Pilot Relay enclosed/modular relay -- they have 20 amp and other versions, $10-$20/ea. I connect the starter coil to the normally-closed relay, and have my main power switch for the device immdiately supply power to the relay. The 10-15 milliseconds it takes the relay to close, and a bit longer for the starter coil to de-energize -- ends up being plenty of time for the starter coil to kick the rotor in the right direction under light to moderate load. The form factor of this relay makes it attach natively to the side of any normal junction box, and wire up just with wire nuts. This eliminates the need for a second switch, where leaving it on by accident (or running the main without the starter) can lead to over-current draw, as the motor draws locked-rotor current. Makes the whole system idiot-proof.
I do enjoy you simple clever solutions to what can be perplexing problems. Using the reverse leg of the starter winding to seal/drop a start relay: elegant.
To you and your family and to all your subscribers stay safe we can and will miss your builds etc but your family comes first and a pre congratulations on your new arrival 😀😀👍🇬🇧🇬🇧
I still love your videos even though I would never be able to build as you do. I like how you expose your thinking as you work and how simple you make it look. Stay safe, we'll wait unless the c word gets us. Cheers
Hi Matthias. I have the same motor from a dish washer I hooked up as an 8" disk sander. After many tries to get it hooked up to run I settled on one normal on/off light switch, and two momentary push buttons. Along the lines of one of your examples. The light switch supplies the 120v to run and at the same time I push one of the momentary buttons for the direction. For my own sanity I labeled every thing on the face place how to turn it on. I had someone read the "how to" just make sure it made sense per the instruction. Works great.
His setup is simple, safe (once he addresses the contact spark) and genius, but i don't know if it would work for a machine that needs to run in both directions (as designed). I really appreciate the built in disconnect if the motor gets overloaded and stalls. Yours sounds pretty nice too, but I'd want to be aware of how it works and be ready to kill power if I stalled it.
@@super_slo When I built my disk sander I went through almost all the ways Matthias has tried this one. The motor when it is in the Dishwasher machine, as Matthias says it all controlled by the machine. Most washers like this have a relay already, else where in the machine to take care of the start function. Some have a "start capacitor" to give the motor a kick to run up to rpm then drop out after run up. Some have a "run capacitor" that kick in at the start up and stay in until the motor is shut off and drop out after rpm runs down and motor stops. All Matthias did was move the sparking from him touching the wires together and then pull them apart after run up which caused the spark. If you look at the video the spark is occurs inside the relay in the clear plastic cover. The relay is rated to drop out at certain voltage. I see no spark at all on mine as I use the momentary button as a start capacitor (completely enclosed button so I become the relay). If I do not push the start button at all just flipping the switch would just make the motor hum. I have to push one of two buttons for CW or CCW for about 10 seconds and flip the main switch after pushing the direction button. This give the motor the extra kick to force rotation CW or CCW. I just wanted to make sure how I did my hook up is clear. Matthias's way works fine also.
@@ed-the-salty-dog5496 when it's sitting there stalled and humming, have you watched the temperature rise? I'd be concerned about overheating with the motor energized but not spinning and thus not cooling. Like say a dust collector or something, might not notice immediately if it stops spinning, and not actually running the piece of equipment. But like I said, your setup sounds PERFECT for something being operated and needing both directions. Lathe, drill press? Either way, you both are awesome for actually building something with these motors!
@@super_slo Hey Super SLo. If I turn mine on with the switch and no button pressed. It will hum only with no turning. So if it is not turning it is burning. If you leave it switched on no rotation it will burn up the motor winding. Of course it will take maybe 1, 2 or more minutes to burn. You will know it by the smell of wire getting to hot, and most likely smoke like crazy. However motors will tell you on the ID tag if it is thermally protected. It will blow a thermal fuse in side the motor to prevent fire. Older motors may not have this feature, so one must be weary. Point is you better stay focused on the task at hand and don't let your brain wonder off the track. Lol.
Not that I understood any of it but that was a rather interesting video Matthias! Hoping that you & the rest of the family stay safe & sound............ 😉😉👍👍
I enjoy your smaller woodworking projects. So it's just a thought but if you do anything smaller in your shop I know the shooting and editing takes a long time. But if your get a chance you make anything small I wouldn't mind watching shorter, smaller, projects as well. Just giving my opinion. Thanks for all the great video. Stay safe my friend.
Instead of using single pole rocker decora switches you could of bought single pole momentary push buttons for less than $5, but excellent ingenuity using the piece of lumber! Thanks for the upload.
@@matthiaswandel If you are interested, send me a mailing address in a PM. I have a variety of push buttons I am willing to donate, also you said you don't have a replacement if that ice cube relay goes out i might have a few of those for you even some nice 240v ones.
@@SeanLeonDrumz Nicer is debatable. I think decora switches are more about simplicty in face plates. Kind of like how FWD is more about simplicity of assembly. They just sell you another lie to get the public to like it.
That's a nice clever way of getting around that problem. You might want to think about adding a cap across the relay contacts too. I was seeing quite a flash when the relay cut out.
The sockets for those relays is an 8 pin octal socket (for vacuum tubes from 1930s-40s). The relays are Potter & Brumfield and can be found at many electronic suppliers. Good explanation.
Great implementation of start stop switch w/ ladder logic. Accolades for using the extra start winding for th relay- nice stall shut down. Now, wash ur hands, & stay 6 feet apart... 😁
There's not much to it really. If you can understand how water flows you should be able to manage electricity. Electrical work is a lot like plumbing. Just the stuff that comes out doesn't get you wet.
I have a East German 'PRAZI' lathe which had a centrifugal starting switch which went bad after just a month ... I simply put my own momentary contact switch in front ...it has worked fine since for the last 28 years
My mill had bad centrifugal switch contacts so I started it for years with a switch. Then one day I just fixed the centrifugal switch. Just had to bend the metal the contacts were on a little. They were misaligned.
Nice use of the starter winding, never seen that before. Though the relay looked to be arcing significantly, I’d chuck a MOV across it, if not another cap or two. And that relay? The thing looks ancient!
We had a bench grinder at work that used a special start winding relay with a coil wired in series with the run winding. When the switch was closed the low impedance of the run winding at start up caused enough current to close the start winding, but after the rotor rpm increased, the decrease in current caused the start relay to open.
Interesting solution, for sure. I am a bit concerned that the relay is arcing inside every time you start it. I'm not sure how long that would last. Maybe another cap across some terminals will help.
a good idea would be to use a latching button circuit with a relay, then hook the starter straight to the terminals of the switch itself and have the motor connected to the latching switch circuit. it will allow you to start the motor and keep it running without having constant power to the starter unit and also the benefit of only 1 button
excellent explanation but I wonder if there aren't 2 in 1 switches on the market to do this kind of operation, I think it exists but I can't find it on the net anymore
You could also rewind the relay to a much thicker wire. Then you can run the power to the main winding through it, if the motor isnt turning it is pulling that much current that in engages the relay. If the motor is up to speed and the current drops the relay will drop off an disengage the starter winding. For this Motor in particular your solution seems to be the best, but not all motors have seperate start windings.
I was going to suggest the mod you did at 5:30. I'd be a bit scared to put info like this out there for the unsold electricians or there that don't know some of the dangers they're working with. But this was a get mod for the educated and courageous both. Lol.
@@CraigsWorkshop I looked at MITx and edX and neither identified a course 802.11x. Do you mind adding a link or additional directions? And thank you for taking the time to identify where we can learn this stuff. I was both fascinated and dumbfounded and you discussed it though it looked obvious from your drawings which make a huge difference.
@@tollertollertoller My mistake - I'm remembering the number for wifi tech for some reason (apologies). It was 6.002X. Anant Agarwal is the course teacher, and it is a good course: courses.edx.org/courses/course-v1:MITx+6.002x_6x+1T2015/course/ I think you have to be logged in to see it, but it's a free account and they don't spam you/you can opt out of emails.
@@ShopTherapy623 It might be a little tricky for a complete beginner, but there are lots of introductory courses around. That particular one is university level (It's basically a free university module).
Very interesting. Iv only ever encountered industrial 3 phase motors with a start switch and run function like this. Though im no electronics wiz im curious to know if this is a similar type of motor
Three phase motors don't need a temporary start circuit, which in a single phase motor is a false delayed phase generated by a cap or shaded pole. This is shown on Matthias' diagram as being 90 degrees out of phase. With three phase you have three true phases, each delayed 120 degrees from each other. So it's self-starting. What you will probably have seen a motor contactor, which is basically a large three pole magnetic relay, with latching emergency stop button, and often with over-current or over-temperature protection, perhaps reversing circuitry too.
@@CraigsWorkshop im not sure i just know it was on a 60 odd year old roller mill that was fed from a grain dryer on the farm where i worked. But i do know there was no emergency stop buttons on anything in there. Health and safety gave that place a miss and it was 20 years ago. You had to throw a lever switch, hold it in the start position till the motor spun up to speed and the flip it back to the run position.
@@robertmurphy9498 Could have been a twin-winding motor - one winding might have had more torque but lower RPM (more poles) - just for starting the motor up. Something like a Dahlander wound 2 speed motor. (Just an idea) Or - it could have been a single phase motor in a three phase environment. (Or something else entirely!) Cheers, Craig
Thanks for sharing. I am currently testing a motor from a bread maker and it uses a capacitor to start but also has three wires coming out of it, one being ground. I can power the motor from either of the two 'hot' wires however it's louder with one than the other. It spins the same way with both wiring configurations and also spins at the same rpm. Got me puzzled!
@@matthiaswandel oh, that's true. Isn't it even 4 times as hurtful? Voltage goes quadratic into the power equation, so a doubling in Voltage would mean 4 times more power for the same resistance
The relay combined with the starter winding is the magic. The wall switch he's using would happily fry the motor, as would the automotive key switch. The relay is being powered by the motor (one of the starter windings being used as a generator) to turn on power the motor (the primary winding) and keep it running. The momentary switch is only powered for less than a second to get the motor running and engage the relay. Much more than a second and the motor would probably be destroyed.
My wife's work was encouraged to close. She'll get unemployment benefits, to stay home. Paid, guilt free vacation. Makes me suspect people will wish for a pandemic every year. If they don't die of course.
There are commercial “dual” switches that have a spring-loaded start connection and a detented run position. In this switch design, the off button releases the start/run switch from the detent and it pops opentobteakthe contact. They are also available with two separate start/run switches for bidirectional motors. Your solution is likely way cheaper, but thought your watchers might like to know. Available at commercial electrical supply houses. Best of health and safety to you and yours!
@@matthiaswandel Why not just use 3 position switch?1st position off 2nd with capacitor for start and 3rd one for normal work .You can start those motors by hand btw in ether direction by pushing belt up or down .All starter coil does is creating magnetic field to spin rotor in selected right or left motion -if you do it by hand or any other mean you dont need start coil.
Can you add a capacitor across the relay contacts to reduce the arcing? Unless the contacts are mercury wetted, and those types are relays normally aren’t wetted, you will probably have a smoked relay soon.
I'm worried that the inductive kick from turning the switch off would be more than 400 volts. That small capacitor is going to get charged up really fast because it has to absorb the considerable inductive energy in the magnetic field. Half microfarad capacitor would probably charge to a very high voltage to accommodate all the magnetic energy in the laminations of that motor. Very difficult to calculate. You would need a high voltage oscilloscope and actually measure the voltage Peak.
One Wandel more? Best wishes, Mom! (did he measure the frequency of the ultrasound using waxed paper rubber-banded to the end of a paper towel tube?) Is the spark (visible after relay is installed in the switch box) happening in the relay or wiring? Maybe need an NTC Thermistor?
wouldn't you also want the vacuum to run for 20-30 seconds or so after the sander stops running? glad to hears you guys are all right, sounds like you'll be plenty busy in the weeks ahead!
There is a type of relay for starting motors, it’s known as a potential relay and it works off the voltage of the start winding and will open once the motor is at about 80 percent, it works very similar to the mechanical setup you are using, however it’s completely automatic and self contained.
The world is a better place with Matthias in it sharing his projects and videos.
You are the closest thing to the mad scientist from the cartoons I have always wanted to be when I was watching cartoons in my youth. LOL! You are definitely my hero, thank you for sharing and keep up the great content!
Einfach immer wieder super, dass man sieht, was man alles mit ein bisschen Erfindergeist machen kann und damit auch Geld sparen kann. Kaufen kann fast jeder. Immer wieder schön, deine Videos anzuschauen.
Wow! I would have never thought to use the induced voltage from the starter windings to power a self latching relay. That's really smart.
Can you explain this to a layman?
Yeah, i followed current for hot and neutral and thought: "How does the relay stay on?". Then i realized the spinning motor is inducing a current in the starter winding.
It's not self-latching, but is in effect.
Keven, when we set up self latching relays back in my building automation days, we would use a double pole, double throw relay (like the one Methais has here, The relay has two poles meaning that it has two switches inside. It is double throw meaning that each switch inside is like a 3 way switch). In a latching relay you'd have some kind of device on one pole, on the normally open set of contacts, meaning that when the coil od the relay engaged, that device would run. Then you'd have a power supply rated for the coil on the other pole on the normal open contacts as well, which means that when the coil was engaged, that the relay would power itself! Hence the name self latching! The Only way to get the relay to disengage at this point would be to have some switch or button cutting the power to the relay. That's the first thing to understand.
Second, (this may seem unrelated at first) when a iron core spins inside a coper coil, it induces a current inside that coper coil. This is how electric generators work. The inverse is also true. This is how electric motors work. Meaning that if you apply an electric current to the copper coil of an electric motor, that iron core inside starts to spin. (This is an overly simplifies explanation go how electric moters work but is good enough for now) BUT (and this is what I would have never realized if I were in Mathais's shoes) if you have a secondary coil arround the motor (in this case the starter windings) that coil has a current induced in it as long as the motor is running! And, again, in this case enough current to close the coil of the relay that Mathais happened to have on hand!!!
This should be all the technical and specific information you'd need to under stand my comment. The info above is very basic and simplified to the point of being technecly wrong. Its very Mickey Mouse. But it may paint a clearer picture. The point is that Mathais is getting electricity back out of the moter while its running. If you want to understand the circut of any of these concepts better, just commenr me here and I'll be glad to explain more.
Hello, Matthias, I enjoy your videos and I appreciate you writing the subtitles/closed captioning for your videos. In the mean time, would it be possible for you to turn the Auto Captioning when you post a video, up tuntil you upload your own captions? That would allow us that have a hearing impairment to enjoy your videos when they come out. Cheers
Fascinating to watch you draw answers for just about anything from your wealth of knowledge. Hope you get through the next few months with your sanity intact.
Well, most of that went over my head but it was Matthias so I watched it! Stay well everyone.
Many of your short videos are the most interesting ones
I am always amazed by your intelligence and ingenuity!
Take care!
I absolutely love the way you share the whole thought process you go through when engineering a solution.
Great bit of engineering; love to see it all explained. Everyone is safe at home here also. Best wishes to Rachel for the next month!
I'm glad to hear your family is doing okay. ... I know almost nothing about how wiring works so I appreciate the effort that goes into making videos like these. All the drawings and explanations help me to understand it a little bit better.
Glad to hear you're all safe Matthias. The virus hasn't not hit our area very hard either, only a handful of cases in the three counties around me. I like your ingenious conversion of the switches to momentary contact along with a latching relay to start the sander motor.
I have used a couple motors like this - my preferred solution is to use a Functional Devices RIBU1C Enclosed Pilot Relay enclosed/modular relay -- they have 20 amp and other versions, $10-$20/ea. I connect the starter coil to the normally-closed relay, and have my main power switch for the device immdiately supply power to the relay. The 10-15 milliseconds it takes the relay to close, and a bit longer for the starter coil to de-energize -- ends up being plenty of time for the starter coil to kick the rotor in the right direction under light to moderate load. The form factor of this relay makes it attach natively to the side of any normal junction box, and wire up just with wire nuts. This eliminates the need for a second switch, where leaving it on by accident (or running the main without the starter) can lead to over-current draw, as the motor draws locked-rotor current. Makes the whole system idiot-proof.
I do enjoy you simple clever solutions to what can be perplexing problems. Using the reverse leg of the starter winding to seal/drop a start relay: elegant.
Good to hear you and your family are OK. Love to see your videos pop up but your safety comes first. Take care!
Electrical genius. Hope this virus doesn't get the better of you all Matthias. Take great care mate.
Stay safe, and thanks for giving us a reason to stay indoors!
Amazing work! Always so considerate in fully explaining your thoughts and technical processes.
To you and your family and to all your subscribers stay safe we can and will miss your builds etc but your family comes first and a pre congratulations on your new arrival 😀😀👍🇬🇧🇬🇧
We are fine, thanks for the update. Stay calm, don't panic.
I still love your videos even though I would never be able to build as you do. I like how you expose your thinking as you work and how simple you make it look. Stay safe, we'll wait unless the c word gets us. Cheers
Good luck for new baby Wandel.
Hi Matthias. I have the same motor from a dish washer I hooked up as an 8" disk sander. After many tries to get it hooked up to run I settled on one normal on/off light switch, and two momentary push buttons. Along the lines of one of your examples. The light switch supplies the 120v to run and at the same time I push one of the momentary buttons for the direction. For my own sanity I labeled every thing on the face place how to turn it on. I had someone read the "how to" just make sure it made sense per the instruction. Works great.
His setup is simple, safe (once he addresses the contact spark) and genius, but i don't know if it would work for a machine that needs to run in both directions (as designed). I really appreciate the built in disconnect if the motor gets overloaded and stalls. Yours sounds pretty nice too, but I'd want to be aware of how it works and be ready to kill power if I stalled it.
@@super_slo When I built my disk sander I went through almost all the ways Matthias has tried this one. The motor when it is in the Dishwasher machine, as Matthias says it all controlled by the machine. Most washers like this have a relay already, else where in the machine to take care of the start function. Some have a "start capacitor" to give the motor a kick to run up to rpm then drop out after run up. Some have a "run capacitor" that kick in at the start up and stay in until the motor is shut off and drop out after rpm runs down and motor stops. All Matthias did was move the sparking from him touching the wires together and then pull them apart after run up which caused the spark. If you look at the video the spark is occurs inside the relay in the clear plastic cover. The relay is rated to drop out at certain voltage. I see no spark at all on mine as I use the momentary button as a start capacitor (completely enclosed button so I become the relay). If I do not push the start button at all just flipping the switch would just make the motor hum.
I have to push one of two buttons for CW or CCW for about 10 seconds and flip the main switch after pushing the direction button. This give the motor the extra kick to force rotation CW or CCW. I just wanted to make sure how I did my hook up is clear. Matthias's way works fine also.
@@ed-the-salty-dog5496 when it's sitting there stalled and humming, have you watched the temperature rise? I'd be concerned about overheating with the motor energized but not spinning and thus not cooling. Like say a dust collector or something, might not notice immediately if it stops spinning, and not actually running the piece of equipment. But like I said, your setup sounds PERFECT for something being operated and needing both directions. Lathe, drill press? Either way, you both are awesome for actually building something with these motors!
@@super_slo Hey Super SLo. If I turn mine on with the switch and no button pressed. It will hum only with no turning. So if it is not turning it is burning. If you leave it switched on no rotation it will burn up the motor winding. Of course it will take maybe 1, 2 or more minutes to burn. You will know it by the smell of wire getting to hot, and most likely smoke like crazy. However motors will tell you on the ID tag if it is thermally protected. It will blow a thermal fuse in side the motor to prevent fire. Older motors may not have this feature, so one must be weary.
Point is you better stay focused on the task at hand and don't let your brain wonder off the track. Lol.
You need to buffer the relay. There was a lot of spark inside the relay when the coil was un-energized. Just sayin'
Yeah - at some point those contacts are going to weld themselves shut - just when you want it least.
Yes I think you need to add back the capacitor.
Looking forward to seeing your shorter stuff! Stay healthy. All the best to you and the gang!
Appreciate the info on how to get the motor started. A latching relay circuit may be of some use here as well .
Not that I understood any of it but that was a rather interesting video Matthias! Hoping that you & the rest of the family stay safe & sound............ 😉😉👍👍
Glad to hear all is well up there. Best of luck with all things newborn.
this is very interesting, great project
I enjoy your smaller woodworking projects. So it's just a thought but if you do anything smaller in your shop I know the shooting and editing takes a long time. But if your get a chance you make anything small I wouldn't mind watching shorter, smaller, projects as well. Just giving my opinion. Thanks for all the great video. Stay safe my friend.
Brilliant idea, Matthias!
Instead of using single pole rocker decora switches you could of bought single pole momentary push buttons for less than $5, but excellent ingenuity using the piece of lumber! Thanks for the upload.
$5 US, plus two months to wait, plus shipping. Instead I bought light switches for $2 canadian.
Household switches, at least in the US, are about $0.60.
@@billybobjoe198 not those nicer decora ones.
@@matthiaswandel If you are interested, send me a mailing address in a PM. I have a variety of push buttons I am willing to donate, also you said you don't have a replacement if that ice cube relay goes out i might have a few of those for you even some nice 240v ones.
@@SeanLeonDrumz Nicer is debatable. I think decora switches are more about simplicty in face plates. Kind of like how FWD is more about simplicity of assembly. They just sell you another lie to get the public to like it.
Thanks for your videos Matthias. Take care and be well.
Also put a capacitor on the relay output terminals. There's a big spark in it! Nice project!
Be safe!!! Greetings from Puerto Rico
Best wishes to you and your family Matt.
One of my favorite videos of yours! Terrific
Very nice solution - stay healthy!
Make vids to save your sanity, beyond that your fans will wait
That's a nice clever way of getting around that problem.
You might want to think about adding a cap across the relay contacts too. I was seeing quite a flash when the relay cut out.
The sockets for those relays is an 8 pin octal socket (for vacuum tubes from 1930s-40s). The relays are Potter & Brumfield and can be found at many electronic suppliers. Good explanation.
thumbs up for the wholesome update at the end.
"Machine builds", cool ! I didn't know you had more machine ideas (plural) on your list. I love these, but I can wait. Take care, Matthias.
Great video, I had been looking forward to seeing this. By the way, the first link in the video description appears to be broken.
very good...it's nice understanding electrical circuits. a man of many talents !
Great idea! Stay safe and congratulations on new baby!
Great implementation of start stop switch w/ ladder logic. Accolades for using the extra start winding for th relay- nice stall shut down.
Now, wash ur hands, & stay 6 feet apart... 😁
Nice video and wishing good health for you and your family also!
Ingenious solution, love it!
that was a very fascinating and educational video....thats so much for posting. stay well mathias!!
For a moment I thought I'm watching ElectroBoom!
Both good stuff. The difference is that Matthias doesn't pretend to be masochistic.
full bridge pantorouter?
Cool. This is certainly helpful to learning electronic application! Thank You! & Congrats on the upcoming new baby!
Be well and stay safe!
It must be nice being this smart.
Appreciate the closing comments. Videos of simple stuff are fun too, so I hope you don't stay away too much!
Just look after the kids we will still be here when things are back to normal.
Totally.
Didn't understand much of the video - but I still enjoyed it!
all the best for you, buddy! looving your videos. Greetings from home office in germany :)
I've never understood electricity and I think I never will lol. But that's ok because we have smart people like you Matthias!
There's not much to it really. If you can understand how water flows you should be able to manage electricity. Electrical work is a lot like plumbing. Just the stuff that comes out doesn't get you wet.
@@1pcfred but it makes your hair look funny
@@Ramog1000 is that so? I've never noticed.
Always Amazed at your Problem Solving Skills, Matthias :)
Really clever solution!
So far so good in Canton, Ohio. Best wishes to everyone, everywhere.
I have a East German 'PRAZI' lathe which had a centrifugal starting switch which went bad after just a month ... I simply put my own momentary contact switch in front ...it has worked fine since for the last 28 years
My mill had bad centrifugal switch contacts so I started it for years with a switch. Then one day I just fixed the centrifugal switch. Just had to bend the metal the contacts were on a little. They were misaligned.
Thanks much for the health update. Best wishes to you and yours.
Nice use of the starter winding, never seen that before. Though the relay looked to be arcing significantly, I’d chuck a MOV across it, if not another cap or two.
And that relay? The thing looks ancient!
We had a bench grinder at work that used a special start winding relay with a coil wired in series with the run winding. When the switch was closed the low impedance of the run winding at start up caused enough current to close the start winding, but after the rotor rpm increased, the decrease in current caused the start relay to open.
Interesting solution, for sure. I am a bit concerned that the relay is arcing inside every time you start it. I'm not sure how long that would last. Maybe another cap across some terminals will help.
Good luck with the new baby
a good idea would be to use a latching button circuit with a relay, then hook the starter straight to the terminals of the switch itself and have the motor connected to the latching switch circuit. it will allow you to start the motor and keep it running without having constant power to the starter unit and also the benefit of only 1 button
nice indcution motor, i loved the video!
The relay still needs the capacitor. Also take into account if the relay gets stuck what would happen?
clever yet simple. Thanks.
Parabéns pela idéia!!!! Genial!!!!
excellent explanation
but I wonder if there aren't 2 in 1 switches on the market to do this kind of operation, I think it exists but I can't find it on the net anymore
Peace be with you Matt and family
You could also rewind the relay to a much thicker wire.
Then you can run the power to the main winding through it, if the motor isnt turning it is pulling that much current that in engages the relay.
If the motor is up to speed and the current drops the relay will drop off an disengage the starter winding.
For this Motor in particular your solution seems to be the best, but not all motors have seperate start windings.
Cool solution for the switch, take care up there.
I was going to suggest the mod you did at 5:30.
I'd be a bit scared to put info like this out there for the unsold electricians or there that don't know some of the dangers they're working with. But this was a get mod for the educated and courageous both. Lol.
Thanks. Enjoyed the video. Take care.
thats really sweet! I wish I knew how to do this kind of thing. I've always been interested in electronics
Just dive in. Take a look at course 6.002X (Not 802.11x!) available for free through MITx (or edX as it may now be called).
@@CraigsWorkshop I looked at MITx and edX and neither identified a course 802.11x. Do you mind adding a link or additional directions? And thank you for taking the time to identify where we can learn this stuff. I was both fascinated and dumbfounded and you discussed it though it looked obvious from your drawings which make a huge difference.
@@tollertollertoller My mistake - I'm remembering the number for wifi tech for some reason (apologies). It was 6.002X. Anant Agarwal is the course teacher, and it is a good course: courses.edx.org/courses/course-v1:MITx+6.002x_6x+1T2015/course/ I think you have to be logged in to see it, but it's a free account and they don't spam you/you can opt out of emails.
Craig's Workshop wow so cool! I’ll check it out. Is it an introductory course? I literally don’t know anything about electrical circuits
@@ShopTherapy623 It might be a little tricky for a complete beginner, but there are lots of introductory courses around. That particular one is university level (It's basically a free university module).
Very interesting. Iv only ever encountered industrial 3 phase motors with a start switch and run function like this. Though im no electronics wiz im curious to know if this is a similar type of motor
Three phase motors don't need a temporary start circuit, which in a single phase motor is a false delayed phase generated by a cap or shaded pole. This is shown on Matthias' diagram as being 90 degrees out of phase. With three phase you have three true phases, each delayed 120 degrees from each other. So it's self-starting. What you will probably have seen a motor contactor, which is basically a large three pole magnetic relay, with latching emergency stop button, and often with over-current or over-temperature protection, perhaps reversing circuitry too.
@@CraigsWorkshop im not sure i just know it was on a 60 odd year old roller mill that was fed from a grain dryer on the farm where i worked. But i do know there was no emergency stop buttons on anything in there. Health and safety gave that place a miss and it was 20 years ago. You had to throw a lever switch, hold it in the start position till the motor spun up to speed and the flip it back to the run position.
Its similar in that both are induction motors but the motor in the video can run off of standard 120v electricity in your house
@@robertmurphy9498 Could have been a twin-winding motor - one winding might have had more torque but lower RPM (more poles) - just for starting the motor up. Something like a Dahlander wound 2 speed motor. (Just an idea)
Or - it could have been a single phase motor in a three phase environment.
(Or something else entirely!)
Cheers, Craig
Thanks for sharing. I am currently testing a motor from a bread maker and it uses a capacitor to start but also has three wires coming out of it, one being ground. I can power the motor from either of the two 'hot' wires however it's louder with one than the other. It spins the same way with both wiring configurations and also spins at the same rpm. Got me puzzled!
Bread maker motors are usually capacitor run motors. The run capacitor is on the main circuit board.
Nice, elegant solution.
Handling loose live wires seems like a thing a woodworker wood do 😁😁
An advantage of the north american system is its only 120 volts. It only hurts half as much when you get zapped.
@@matthiaswandel oh, that's true. Isn't it even 4 times as hurtful? Voltage goes quadratic into the power equation, so a doubling in Voltage would mean 4 times more power for the same resistance
@@matthiaswandel Or that you're a qualified engineer and knows how to handle it.
@@charlc I am an electrical engineer in the making and my colleagues would condemn such handling of loose live wires as well
I have touched 240, I absolutely do not recommend it, it is painful, but anything more when it just goes through 1 or 2 fingers? Don't think so.
Super smart solution.
Sweet. Always learn something here.
For future reference and perhaps to aid your search, temporary switches are often referred to as momentary switches.
We enjoy the small stuff videos too. Stay safe
Interesting solution. I wonder if a higher capacity automotive style key switch would work without the relay.
The relay combined with the starter winding is the magic. The wall switch he's using would happily fry the motor, as would the automotive key switch. The relay is being powered by the motor (one of the starter windings being used as a generator) to turn on power the motor (the primary winding) and keep it running. The momentary switch is only powered for less than a second to get the motor running and engage the relay. Much more than a second and the motor would probably be destroyed.
If the situation here in Calgary is any indication, I think we know how the apocalypse is going to play out in Canada, orderly and politely.
Unless you say there are only two genders.
In interior BC, I've seen more smiles and cheerful people in the last 2 weeks than the last 5 months. Might be the sun though.
My wife's work was encouraged to close. She'll get unemployment benefits, to stay home. Paid, guilt free vacation. Makes me suspect people will wish for a pandemic every year. If they don't die of course.
Brilliant, as usual.
Thank you for the respite. Stay in touch, Stay healthy.
Nicely done.
There are commercial “dual” switches that have a spring-loaded start connection and a detented run position. In this switch design, the off button releases the start/run switch from the detent and it pops opentobteakthe contact. They are also available with two separate start/run switches for bidirectional motors. Your solution is likely way cheaper, but thought your watchers might like to know. Available at commercial electrical supply houses. Best of health and safety to you and yours!
I didn't even come across a switch like that in my searches. Then again, I didn't search expensive sources at all.
@@matthiaswandel Why not just use 3 position switch?1st position off 2nd with capacitor for start and 3rd one for normal work .You can start those motors by hand btw in ether direction by pushing belt up or down .All starter coil does is creating magnetic field to spin rotor in selected right or left motion -if you do it by hand or any other mean you dont need start coil.
Did you include the capacitor in the circuit in the final version? I still saw sparks when everything was installed in the box
The relay arcs inside the housing. See 4:10
Can you add a capacitor across the relay contacts to reduce the arcing? Unless the contacts are mercury wetted, and those types are relays normally aren’t wetted, you will probably have a smoked relay soon.
@@MrJohnnyboyrebel yes he didn't have the capacitor in the right place to protect the relay. He should fix that.
I'm worried that the inductive kick from turning the switch off would be more than 400 volts. That small capacitor is going to get charged up really fast because it has to absorb the considerable inductive energy in the magnetic field. Half microfarad capacitor would probably charge to a very high voltage to accommodate all the magnetic energy in the laminations of that motor. Very difficult to calculate. You would need a high voltage oscilloscope and actually measure the voltage Peak.
@@henryD9363 Motors are measured in millihenry. Let's say 10 mh and 5 amps that gives you 0.12 joules and this motor probably isn't close to 10mh.
Take care to you and your loved ones. 👍👍
One Wandel more? Best wishes, Mom!
(did he measure the frequency of the ultrasound using waxed paper rubber-banded to the end of a paper towel tube?)
Is the spark (visible after relay is installed in the switch box) happening in the relay or wiring? Maybe need an NTC Thermistor?
wouldn't you also want the vacuum to run for 20-30 seconds or so after the sander stops running?
glad to hears you guys are all right, sounds like you'll be plenty busy in the weeks ahead!
For a meiter saw cabinet, yes. For this sander, no. The fan spin down is enough to suck it clear.
So nice of you not to insulate the connections of the relay
Wouldnt a couple of Radio Shack $3 momentary switches done the same thing?
There is a type of relay for starting motors, it’s known as a potential relay and it works off the voltage of the start winding and will open once the motor is at about 80 percent, it works very similar to the mechanical setup you are using, however it’s completely automatic and self contained.